Hi everyone,

I've now two PCIe Intel PRO/1000 NICs that I'm wanting to stuff into an old HP EliteDesk 705 I have sitting around for a pfSense box. I'm wanting to set up a VPN to work on the BBS remotely via VNC (the only reliable remote control method).

Unfortunately, the special deal I had for cheap Internet access for low-income people has expired so if I'm gonna drop the cash, might as well spend $20 more to bump up to 1GB/1GB fiber.

I know it's overkill for a BBS but it's nice to have that speed when working with large files.

-- Sean

--- ProBoard v2.17 [Reg]
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

To: Sean Dennis
Re: pfSense
By: Sean Dennis to All on Wed Jan 24 2024 10:02 am

From Newsgroup: micronet.comp

Hi everyone,

I've now two PCIe Intel PRO/1000 NICs that I'm wanting to stuff into an old HP EliteDesk 705 I have sitting around for a pfSense box. I'm wanting to set up a VPN to work on the BBS remotely via VNC (the only reliable remote control method).

Unfortunately, the special deal I had for cheap Internet access for low-income people has expired so if I'm gonna drop the cash, might as well spend $20 more to bump up to 1GB/1GB fiber.

I know it's overkill for a BBS but it's nice to have that speed when working with large files.

i thought you are at home and your systems are at home.
and it's only 20 bucks to go 1gps?!
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i thought you are at home and your systems are at home.

I've been hospitalized for three weeks now due to a nasty MRSA infection in my right foot. I underwent surgery to have it removed and am on a "no-weight-bearing" status meaning I cannot walk and instead use a wheelchair to get around. I'm in my local VA's long-term care facility right now. My next podiatry appointment is Feburary 5th and that's when I'll know if I'm going home or not right away.

and it's only 20 bucks to go 1gps?!

No, $20 more from $50 which is the normal price for my current connection. I was paying $25 via the ACP but the ACP is coming to an end.

Funny, the admins must have seen me connecting to the BBS via their WiFi and just blocked me from connecting so now I'm on my phone's hotspot. I could spoof my MAC address to mess around but I'll be good and use my hotspot. LOL

-- Sean

--- ProBoard v2.17 [Reg]
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

Hello Sean!

No, $20 more from $50 which is the normal price for my
current connection. I was paying $25 via the ACP but the
ACP is coming to an end.

So.. you're going from $25 to $70?

Funny, the admins must have seen me connecting to the BBS
via their WiFi and just blocked me from connecting so now
I'm on my phone's hotspot. I could spoof my MAC address
to mess around but I'll be good and use my hotspot. LOL

And.. why can't you use their wifi? Isn't it intended for the
residents?

--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.58
* Origin: (} Pointy McPointface (618:250/1.9)

So.. you're going from $25 to $70?

Correct.

And.. why can't you use their wifi? Isn't it intended for the
residents?

I was using a non-standard port and their automated software caught that, blocked the port, then kicked me off of their network. Several hours later, I'm back on the WiFi but connected to my BBS via my website which uses HTTPS and a proxy server to connect so to their system, I am visiting just another website.

A federal installation's WiFi tends to be more restrictive than others.

If I decide to get my foot reconstruction surgery, I'll probably pick up a 5G hotspot and not worry about it anymore.

-- Sean

...We now return to our regularly scheduled flame-throwing.

--- ProBoard v2.17 [Reg]
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

To: Sean Dennis
Re: pfSense
By: Sean Dennis to Jas Hud on Wed Jan 24 2024 12:33 pm

No, $20 more from $50 which is the normal price for my current

connection.
I was paying $25 via the ACP but the ACP is coming to an end.

Are you sure acp is going to an end? Some people i know get it.
I thought they were just threatening to end it because the govt was being slow about it. You're lucky it's so cheap there. internet only is 100+ bucks with spectrum here.

Looks like on the site they say it's expected to run out
april 2024 unless congress funds it.

Funny, the admins must have seen me connecting to the BBS via their WiFi and just blocked me from connecting so now I'm on my phone's hotspot. I could spoof my MAC address to mess around but I'll be good and use my hotspot.
LOL

Well that's understandable that they would block such types of traffic.
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Re: pfSense
By: Sean Dennis to Jas Hud on Wed Jan 24 2024 12:33 pm

Funny, the admins must have seen me connecting to the BBS via their WiFi and

-- Sean

I would try some sort of tunneling for accessing the BBS. I set a home VPN precisely because of these scenarios.

WHen I take the bus to work and back, I use the free Wifi provided by the bus. They block a lot of traffic and have DNS hijacking. I bypass it using my VPN.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (618:250/24)

Hello Arelor!

I would try some sort of tunneling for accessing the BBS. I
set a home VPN precisely because of these scenarios.

I have been using Tailscale as my personal VPN tool for quite a
while now. Very reliable.

WHen I take the bus to work and back, I use the free Wifi
provided by the bus. They block a lot of traffic and have
DNS hijacking. I bypass it using my VPN.

Do they do DNS highjacking to push ads?

--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.58
* Origin: (} Pointy McPointface (618:250/1.9)

Jas Hud wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

Are you sure acp is going to an end? Some people i know get it.

I received a notice from my ISP to plan on my bill getting more expensive. Should hit around May when I have to start playing for Medicare.

-- Sean
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

Arelor wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

I would try some sort of tunneling for accessing the BBS. I set a home
VPN precisely because of these scenarios.

Hence my desire to set up a pfSense box.

-- Sean
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

Re: pfSense
By: Sean Dennis to All on Wed Jan 24 2024 10:02 am

I've now two PCIe Intel PRO/1000 NICs that I'm wanting to stuff into an old HP EliteDesk 705 I have sitting around for a pfSense box.

Something to think about.

Why pay the price in WATT's I did the same for a long while big box & pfsense
at long last I got on ebay about 3 years ago and bought a small foot print
check point firewall I think it draws 40w I was so pleased with it I bought a spare just for a backup.


<|04Hav|12o|04k|07/>
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Anarchy BBS - The Villages,FL (618:250/21)

To: Digimaus
Re: Re: pfSense
By: Digimaus to Jas Hud on Thu Jan 25 2024 05:36 pm

From Newsgroup: micronet.comp

Jas Hud wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

Are you sure acp is going to an end? Some people i know get it.

I received a notice from my ISP to plan on my bill getting more expensive. Should hit around May when I have to start playing for Medicare.

yeah i know they are sending out notice emails. dont have money to fund it! need to send that money to ukraine, ya know.

anyways, why the fuck is this stuff so expensive anyways?
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Why pay the price in WATT's I did the same for a long while big box & pfsense
at long last I got on ebay about 3 years ago and bought a small foot print
check point firewall I think it draws 40w I was so pleased with it I bought a spare just for a backup.

I'm using when I have. Besides, I have some of the cheapest electric in the US as 6 cents kw/h. The HP draws less than 20 watts at idle. My electric bill is usually under $70 a month anyway.

-- Sean


--- ProBoard v2.17 [Reg]
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

anyways, why the **** is this stuff so expensive anyways?

Because they can.

Much like it costs $3 to make a vial of insulin yet it sells for $130 a piece.

-- Sean


...A feature is a bug with seniority.

--- ProBoard v2.17 [Reg]
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

On Thursday January 25 2024, Sean Dennis said the following...

I'm using when I have. Besides, I have some of the cheapest electric
in the %US as 6 cents kw/h. The HP draws less than 20 watts at idle.
My electric %bill is usually under $70 a month anyway.

That is a good price for electricity! Here we have time-of-use rates & pay 18.2 cents per kw/h during "on peak" hours (currently 7-11am & 5-7pm), 12.2 centers per kw/h during "mid peak" (11am-5pm) and the cheapest is 8.7 cents per kw/h during "off peak" (7pm-7am & weekends).

I had an HP server going in the basement for awhile but this little NUC I have now is a lot easier on the power bill.


Jay

... I hate funerals that are at 9am. I'm not really a mourning person
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20231112
* Origin: Northern Realms (618:500/23)

Hello Warpslide!

in the US as 6 cents kw/h. The HP draws less than 20 watts at idle.

That is a good price for electricity! Here we have time-
of-use rates & pay 18.2 cents per kw/h during "on peak"
hours (currently 7-11am & 5-7pm), 12.2 centers per kw/h
during "mid peak" (11am-5pm) and the cheapest is 8.7 cents
per kw/h during "off peak" (7pm-7am & weekends).

Don't forget to factor in the "rebate". My recent one was $89
off the base kwh usage $316 + $127 devivery fee + regulatory
charges of $17 + taxes $60.


--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.58
* Origin: (618:500/23.10)

Havok wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

Why pay the price in WATT's I did the same for a long while big box & pfsense
at long last I got on ebay about 3 years ago and bought a small foot print
check point firewall I think it draws 40w I was so pleased with it I bought a spare just for a backup.

My local thrift shop occasionally has Cisco ASA, Fortinet firewalls and Sonicwall firewalls. I've been tempted to get a serious firewall, but
OpenWRT on a Netgear appliance router seems to do the trick.



--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (618:300/16)

To: Sean Dennis
Re: pfSense
By: Sean Dennis to Havok on Thu Jan 25 2024 09:22 pm

the US as 6 cents kw/h. The HP draws less than 20 watts at idle. My electric bill is usually under $70 a month anyway.

my gas and electric for this ole house is like 320 this month
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Warpslide wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

On Thursday January 25 2024, Sean Dennis said the following...

That is a good price for electricity! Here we have time-of-use rates & pay 18.2 cents per kw/h during "on peak" hours (currently 7-11am &
5-7pm), 12.2 centers per kw/h during "mid peak" (11am-5pm) and the cheapest is 8.7 cents per kw/h during "off peak" (7pm-7am & weekends).

I'm within the boundries of the Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA) which has
the cheapest electricity thanks to hydroelectric.

I had an HP server going in the basement for awhile but this little NUC
I have now is a lot easier on the power bill.

I have that Dell PowerEdge R710 server but I'm afraid it'd double my
electric bill!

-- Sean
... Let he who takes the plunge remember to return it by Tuesday.

--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

my gas and electric for this ole house is like 320 this month

I have a little one-bedroom apartment that's all electric. I'd really prefer have natural gas as it's more effecient but beggars can't be choosers.

-- Sean


--- ProBoard v2.17 [Reg]
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

To: Sean Dennis
Re: pfSense
By: Sean Dennis to Jas Hud on Fri Jan 26 2024 10:40 am

From Newsgroup: micronet.comp

my gas and electric for this ole house is like 320 this month

I have a little one-bedroom apartment that's all electric. I'd really prefer have natural gas as it's more effecient but beggars can't be choosers.

-- Sean

when i lived in a trailer it was pretty nice. my bill was like 100 bucks.
i also had a full size furnace so things got warm as fuck in there quick.
but it was a bit small for me. trailer life was not for me. also landlord was an asshole and neighbors were weird.
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when i lived in a trailer it was pretty nice. my bill was like 100 bucks. i also had a full size furnace so things got warm as **** in there quick. but it was a bit small for me. trailer life was not for me. also landlord was an ******* and neighbors were weird.

Someday I'd like to get some land and get a pre-fab house put on it. I don't need much room but I do need certain things to make it easier for me with my physical issues.

Mobile homes are outrageous down here for what they are right now.

-- Sean


--- ProBoard v2.17 [Reg]
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

Re: pfSense
By: Sean Dennis to Havok on Thu Jan 25 2024 09:22 pm

I'm using when I have. Besides, I have some of the cheapest electric in the US as 6 cents kw/h. The HP draws less than 20 watts at idle. My electric bill is usually under $70 a month anyway.

Laughing God I hate when people brag 6 cents kw/h

And down here in Florida I thought I was lucky with 112.00 last month.

Good luck on your project!


<|04Hav|12o|04k|07/>
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Anarchy BBS - The Villages,FL (618:250/21)

Re: Re: pfSense
By: Kurt Weiske to Havok on Fri Jan 26 2024 06:23 am

My local thrift shop occasionally has Cisco ASA, Fortinet firewalls and Sonicwall firewalls. I've been tempted to get a serious firewall, but OpenWRT on a Netgear appliance router seems to do the trick.

Hello

When I bought the checkpoint it had their own OS on it but of course
everything had expired. So I installed pfsense lets see 5 or more
releases ago. They been good to me so far both pfsense & checkpoint.






<|04Hav|12o|04k|07/>
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Anarchy BBS - The Villages,FL (618:250/21)

To: Sean Dennis
Re: pfSense
By: Sean Dennis to Jas Hud on Fri Jan 26 2024 03:31 pm

Someday I'd like to get some land and get a pre-fab house put on it. I

you'd have to have a big chunk of money to do that.

Mobile homes are outrageous down here for what they are right now.

i heard they are up in price everywhere. the quality is not great so i wouldn't recommend it. also your pipes will freeze if it gets cold enough. probably not an issue for your area.
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Havok wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

Laughing God I hate when people brag 6 cents kw/h

It's because I get power from the Tennessee Valley Authority. The price fluctuates a lot. Right now it's about 13 cents/kwh becausw it's winter.

December, January, and Feburary are my most expensive months due to heating costs. Spring and summer are usually much cheaper since I mainly use fans
to cool off with.

And down here in Florida I thought I was lucky with 112.00 last month.

That's really not bad, honestly.

Good luck on your project!

Thanks! As soon as I get home, I'll start working on it. I'm going to get things ready for when I have foot reconstruction surgery and stay here for a few months, I won't have issues like I did this time though admittedly it
was an unexpected hospitalization,

-- Sean

... A bike in town keeps running me over. It's a vicious cycle.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

Re: pfSense
By: August Abolins to Arelor on Thu Jan 25 2024 08:40 am

Do they do DNS highjacking to push ads?

No. I think they do it in order to limit their liability. ie. their DNS is an external subcontracted service with filters. They have a blacklist against the sort of sites you don't want to send traffic to, by the looks of it (casinos, porn, that sort of stuff). I suppose the idea is that if somebody gets infected with malware on that bus, or if a 14 years old tries to watch porn or whatever, at least they get to claim they had filters they believed to be reasonably secure.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (618:250/24)

Re: pfSense
By: Sean Dennis to Jas Hud on Fri Jan 26 2024 10:40 am

I have a little one-bedroom apartment that's all electric. I'd really prefe

What are the economics of using blottled gas over there? If you only need heating in deep winter, then maybe it is better to use bottled gas for three months tops than to pay for a natural gas subscription for the whole year.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (618:250/24)

To: Arelor
Re: pfSense
By: Arelor to Sean Dennis on Sun Jan 28 2024 06:45 am

From Newsgroup: micronet.comp

Re: pfSense
By: Sean Dennis to Jas Hud on Fri Jan 26 2024 10:40 am

I have a little one-bedroom apartment that's all electric. I'd really prefe

What are the economics of using blottled gas over there? If you only need heating in deep winter, then maybe it is better to use bottled gas for three months tops than to pay for a natural gas subscription for the whole year.

--

are you talking about propane? i believe propane is cheaper and you can run stoves and other stuff on it.
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
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Digimaus wrote to Havok <=-

Havok wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

Laughing God I hate when people brag 6 cents kw/h

It's because I get power from the Tennessee Valley Authority. The
price fluctuates a lot. Right now it's about 13 cents/kwh becausw it's winter.

$489 in California, on an EV time-of-day plan. 3 bedroom house, 2 gas
heaters and 2 electric space heaters.

We did a remodel in our bedroom last year and ditched a huge gas heater.
Most of the time that we're in there, we're in bed under covers, so
don't need heat in that room very often.

Our rates just went up 20%. Our utility company has a pretty good thing
going.

0. Have a virtual monopoly on residential power.
1. Offer rebates to EV buyers to increase electric demand.
2. Make rooftop solar harder to install and throw roadblocks to selling
power back to the utility.
3. Profit.
4. Funnel profits into stock buybacks, increasing shareholder value.
5. Be found liable for infrastructure safety issues that cause massive
fire damage, leveling entire towns.
6. Lobby the PUC to raise rates to pay for fire damages, infrastructure improvements and pathetic TV commercials portraying a for-profit utility
as your neighborhood friends.
7. Receive rate increases.
8. Repeat.

Everyone knows it should be privatized but whoever attempts it will have
so much campaign money funneled to their opponents that they'd never
make it through the next election.

December, January, and Feburary are my most expensive months due to heating costs. Spring and summer are usually much cheaper since I
mainly use fans to cool off with.

And down here in Florida I thought I was lucky with 112.00 last month.

That's really not bad, honestly.

Good luck on your project!

Thanks! As soon as I get home, I'll start working on it. I'm going to get things ready for when I have foot reconstruction surgery and stay
here for a few months, I won't have issues like I did this time though admittedly it was an unexpected hospitalization,

-- Sean

... A bike in town keeps running me over. It's a vicious cycle.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

... Breathe more deeply
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (618:300/16)

To: Kurt Weiske
Re: Re: pfSense
By: Kurt Weiske to Digimaus on Sun Jan 28 2024 10:23 am

$489 in California, on an EV time-of-day plan. 3 bedroom house, 2 gas heaters and 2 electric space heaters.

i'm in a 4 bedroom house. we have a boiler with radiators in every room.

Everyone knows it should be privatized but whoever attempts it will have
so much campaign money funneled to their opponents that they'd never
make it through the next election.

no matter how it runs, it will always go up. we (everyone) stopped using so much energy so they raised rates. we use more and they raise rates. the board always approves it.
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Re: pfSense
By: Jas Hud to Arelor on Sun Jan 28 2024 07:16 am

are you talking about propane? i believe propane is cheaper and you can run

Here in Spain we use propane or butane as bottled gas.

The big orange bottle you can use for running the stove and the heating is what I was thinkign about.

My logic is if you only use gas for part of the year, it makes more sense to use bottled gas than to pay for a pipe subscription.

I think bottled gas in Spain is used precisely for situations such as those -ie. you have a summer residence you use only half the year, so instead of paying for a full set of utilities, you use bottled gas.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (618:250/24)

Arelor wrote to Jas Hud <=-

I think bottled gas in Spain is used precisely for situations such as those -ie. you have a summer residence you use only half the year, so instead of paying for a full set of utilities, you use bottled gas.

Out here, a lot of rural homes have a 300-gallon propane tank out back that
is used for the stove and heating. That's the most common usage I've seen
in my time here.

-- Sean
... Crisis management works beautifully until an actual crisis occurs.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

To: Digimaus
Re: pfSense
By: Digimaus to Arelor on Sat Feb 03 2024 12:45 pm

Out here, a lot of rural homes have a 300-gallon propane tank out back that is used for the stove and heating. That's the most common usage I've seen in my time here.

so you can't have any type of propane?
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Digimaus wrote to Arelor <=-

Out here, a lot of rural homes have a 300-gallon propane tank out back that is used for the stove and heating. That's the most common usage
I've seen in my time here.

We have a 100 gallon propane tank in the woods. I got it for the old place that had gas heat and hot water. Our exisiting unit has an electric hot
water tank and the furnace is broken so we use electric heaters. The tank
is only for the stove. It's lasted 5 years now, at least 5 more to go. :)

Shawn

... Beware of all enterprises requiring new clothes.
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

Digimaus wrote to Arelor <=-

Out here, a lot of rural homes have a 300-gallon propane tank out back that is used for the stove and heating. That's the most common usage
I've seen in my time here.

Up in the Sierra Nevada mountains, we had our choice of going all
electric or setting up one of those big propane tanks. We don't live
there year-round, so we went all electric.

Propane and snow are a bad combination. We had a couple of big winters
where tanks exploded. I don't know if they imploded or if the snow was
too great for the connectors and pipes. Most likely, the latter.



... Trust in the you of now
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (618:300/16)

To: Kurt Weiske
Re: Re: pfSense
By: Kurt Weiske to Digimaus on Sun Feb 04 2024 09:58 am

Up in the Sierra Nevada mountains, we had our choice of going all
electric or setting up one of those big propane tanks. We don't live
there year-round, so we went all electric.

Propane and snow are a bad combination. We had a couple of big winters
where tanks exploded. I don't know if they imploded

cold weather isn't really a problem for propane, atleast not the cold
weather we experience. you had bad tanks from your provider.

ps my tanks have been sitting outside in -20 windchill this year.

or if the snow was
too great for the connectors and pipes. Most likely, the latter.

dont know what you mean about snow being too great. btw, snow is an insulator. --- Synchronet 3.19b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
* bbses.info - http://bbses.info - telnet://bbses.info
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Jas Hud wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

ps my tanks have been sitting outside in -20 windchill this year.

I think it was more a function of the 15 feet of snow surrounding the
tank.


... The inconsistency principle
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
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To: Kurt Weiske
Re: Re: pfSense
By: Kurt Weiske to Jas Hud on Tue Feb 06 2024 06:22 am

From Newsgroup: micronet.comp

Jas Hud wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

ps my tanks have been sitting outside in -20 windchill this year.

I think it was more a function of the 15 feet of snow surrounding the
tank.

what would that do? do you think the snow would crush the tanks?
it hasnt crushed anything outside where i live and we've had lots of snow some years.
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
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ps my tanks have been sitting outside in -20 windchill this year.

I think it was more a function of the 15 feet of snow surrounding the
tank.

what would that do? do you think the snow would crush the tanks?
it hasnt crushed anything outside where i live and we've had lots of snow some
ears.

Based on his earlier posts, I wondered if maybe some of the pipe leading
from the tanks to the houses/cabins was not burried deep enough, or maybe
the installers did something else that didn't take the cold and snow into account.

They are probably used to it in Wisconsin but, in California, if the
company that handled the install was not from the snowy mountain area they
may not have installed it right.

Mike


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To: Mike Powell
Re: Re: pfSense
By: Mike Powell to JAS HUD on Wed Feb 07 2024 10:29 am

from the tanks to the houses/cabins was not burried deep enough, or maybe the installers did something else that didn't take the cold and snow into account.

They are probably used to it in Wisconsin but, in California, if the
company that handled the install was not from the snowy mountain area they may not have installed it right.

he said tanks exploded or imploded.

Up in the Sierra Nevada mountains, we had our choice of going all
electric or setting up one of those big propane tanks. We don't live
there year-round, so we went all electric.

Propane and snow are a bad combination. We had a couple of big winters
where tanks exploded. I don't know if they imploded

he probably had defective tanks.
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Mike Powell wrote to JAS HUD <=-

ps my tanks have been sitting outside in -20 windchill this year.

I think it was more a function of the 15 feet of snow surrounding the
tank.

what would that do? do you think the snow would crush the tanks?
it hasnt crushed anything outside where i live and we've had lots of snow

some

Based on his earlier posts, I wondered if maybe some of the pipe
leading from the tanks to the houses/cabins was not burried deep
enough, or maybe the installers did something else that didn't
take the cold and snow into account.

They are probably used to it in Wisconsin but, in California, if
the company that handled the install was not from the snowy
mountain area they may not have installed it right.

Real-world cold would not affect propane tanks at all. Propane is
stored in the tank as a liquid, which freezes at -306 degrees F. Yes,
you read that right. It *boils* (turns to vapor) at -44 degrees F. So,
at VERY cold temps (-30 to -40 F), there won't be much pressure coming
out of the tank, and a gas grill may not work well. At no point would
there be *ANY* danger of a tank exploding from cold.


... I was on a roll till I slipped on the butter.
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