On Friday night, at least 8 people were killed and many more were injured
when the crowd at the AstroWorld Festival in Houston surged forward.

This is an excellent example of the Tragedy of the Commons.

No one person killed those 8 people. There was no conspiracy theory to kill those 8 people. There is no evidence that any one person pushed forward with enough force to kill any of those 8 people. No one individual did anything wrong.

However, the cumulative force of thousands of people pushing forward cost 8 people their lives.

This same thing can be directly applied to climate change and pollution,
among other things. While any one person, company, city, state, or country is individually responsible for these problems, the cumulative effects of
everyone on the planet causes these problems to exist. The US cutting
emissions will help reduce the problem whether China does so or not, and at
the same time no one is blaming the US for the problem. It's nobody's fault, but at the same time everyone's fault; this is a situation that doesn't fit neatly into our legal system or the usual blame game.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

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I was distracted when typing that last post, so I need to make a few corrections.

On 06 Nov 2021, Jeff Thiele said the following...

On Friday night, at least 8 people were killed and many more were injured when the crowd at the AstroWorld Festival in Houston surged forward.

This is an excellent example of the Tragedy of the Commons.

No one person killed those 8 people. There was no conspiracy theory to

This should have been just "conspiracy," not "conspiracy theory.

kill those 8 people. There is no evidence that any one person pushed forward with enough force to kill any of those 8 people. No one
individual did anything wrong.

However, the cumulative force of thousands of people pushing forward
cost 8 people their lives.

This same thing can be directly applied to climate change and pollution, among other things. While any one person, company, city, state, or

This should have been "While no one person..."

country is individually responsible for these problems, the cumulative effects of everyone on the planet causes these problems to exist. The US cutting emissions will help reduce the problem whether China does so or not, and at the same time no one is blaming the US for the problem. It's nobody's fault, but at the same time everyone's fault; this is a
situation that doesn't fit neatly into our legal system or the usual
blame game.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

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Jeff Thiele wrote to All <=-

Just more leftie drivel designed to misdirect.

I still haven't heard anything from the Leftie shills here decrying the riots in some major cities before the 2020 elections. You know, where many people's businesses were burned. Where far more than 6 people were killed. Ya, those riots that the Lefties and the Propaganda Ministry want to say never happened.


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Hello Ron,

I still haven't heard anything from the Leftie shills here decrying
the riots in some major cities before the 2020 elections. You know,
where many people's businesses were burned. Where far more than 6
people were killed. Ya, those riots that the Lefties and the
Propaganda Ministry want to say never happened.

What does any of that have to do with "the Left"?

Ttyl :-),
Al

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The US cutting
emissions will help reduce the problem whether China does so or not, and at the same time no one is blaming the US for the problem. It's nobody's fault, but at the same time everyone's fault; this is a situation that doesn't fit neatly into our legal system or the usual blame game.

Unless people are willing to do without "things," the US cutting its
emissions really will not help. China has become a bigger polluter because they are the ones making things. If the US quits making things, those
things are still going to be produced somewhere, and so are the emissions created in the process.

Shifting things around so that people in the US cannot make things, and
don't have jobs, doesn't help so long as we allow other countries to
continue polluting for us.

Like many other ideas, it would just make some left-leaning persons feel
good about themselves while the rest are still miserable, just a different
kind of miserable.


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On 07 Nov 2021, Ron Lauzon said the following...

Just more leftie drivel designed to misdirect.

Nope.

I still haven't heard anything from the Leftie shills here decrying the riots in some major cities before the 2020 elections. You know, where many people's businesses were burned. Where far more than 6 people were killed. Ya, those riots that the Lefties and the Propaganda Ministry
want to say never happened.

I, for one, have said multiple times here that I do not condone the violence and destruction caused by a small subset of the protesters last summer. And by saying that I don't condone them, I implicitly agree that they occurred.

This wouldn't be just more rightie drivel designed to redirect, would it, Ron?

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

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On 07 Nov 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

The US cutting
emissions will help reduce the problem whether China does so or not, and the same time no one is blaming the US for the problem. It's nobody's fa but at the same time everyone's fault; this is a situation that doesn't neatly into our legal system or the usual blame game.

Unless people are willing to do without "things," the US cutting its emissions really will not help. China has become a bigger polluter because they are the ones making things. If the US quits making things, those things are still going to be produced somewhere, and so are the emissions created in the process.

Making "things" is not the only source of pollution.

Shifting things around so that people in the US cannot make things, and don't have jobs, doesn't help so long as we allow other countries to continue polluting for us.

Changing the way we do things won't cost jobs. And even if it did, that's hardly an excuse to stop destroying the planet. Besides, if the US cut its emissions substantially, we'd have some leverage in getting China to do the same. But as it is, China won't cut because the US won't, and the US won't
cut because China won't. Somebody's got to take that first step.

Like many other ideas, it would just make some left-leaning persons feel good about themselves while the rest are still miserable, just a
different kind of miserable.

Not true. It just might save us all.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

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Mike Powell wrote to JEFF THIELE <=-

Shifting things around so that people in the US cannot make things, and don't have jobs, doesn't help so long as we allow other countries to continue polluting for us.

This has been a problem for the ignorant Lefties for quite sime time now.

For a long time it was "electric cars will save the world!", but they didn't want the clean nuclear power plants nor the dirty coal power plants. They seemed to think that electricity magically comes out of the outlet.

Lefties can never see the ramifications of their actions. They always seem surprised of what happens when they get their way. Then, because Lefties can never admit that they made a mistake, will always deny that their actions caused the problems that they are seeing.


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On 08 Nov 2021, Ron Lauzon said the following...

Lefties can never see the ramifications of their actions. They always seem surprised of what happens when they get their way. Then, because Lefties can never admit that they made a mistake, will always deny that their actions caused the problems that they are seeing.

Do you mean like how "righties" denied for decades that human-caused climate change was a problem? Is that what you mean, Ron?

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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Changing the way we do things won't cost jobs. And even if it did, that's hardly an excuse to stop destroying the planet. Besides, if the US cut its emissions substantially, we'd have some leverage in getting China to do the same. But as it is, China won't cut because the US won't, and the US won't cut because China won't. Somebody's got to take that first step.

Manufacturing causes pollution... direct and indirect (power plants). If
you cut manufacturing, you cut jobs. People still want things. Those
things get made in countries like China.

Stop buying stuff, including whatever mostly Chinese made, electricity-using tech you might be using for any tech hobby projects, and I might believe you.


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Lefties can never see the ramifications of their actions. They always seem surprised of what happens when they get their way. Then, because Lefties can never admit that they made a mistake, will always deny that their actions caused the problems that they are seeing.

No doubt! Then they get their way and want to blame others when it doesn't work.

The other day, there was an African-American educator on PBS News who was talking about the problems black students have. The big thing he pointed
out was when they started forcing black students to comply to white culture
in their educational settings rather than being educated by blacks and
learning in black culture.

Now, what caused that? He didn't come out and say it (he only had a minute
to speak), but the one thing that I can think of is when some allegedly well-meaning white liberals and leftists came up with the idea for bussing. Somehow they thought that sending black children several miles away from
home each day to what had been a predominantly white school in a
predominantly white neighborhood, for many more school years than the white kids got sent to the urban schools, would somehow be good for them.

In Louisville, KY, for example, a white child in the mid-1980's would get bussed, at most, 4 out of the 11 possible bussing years. Unless they
lived in the suburbs and were exempt, a black child could expect to be
bussed up to *10* of those 11 possible years, and never as few as 4 years.
I bring Louisville up because, for several years, their system was held up
by other adoring white liberals and leftists as the standard for how such programs should work.... until black parents got fed up and it fell apart.

Well, while they, a bunch of white people with (most likely) degrees in social "science," got to pat themselves on the back for the "good" they did, those kids were being forced to comply to white culture in a white educational environment.


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On 08 Nov 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

Changing the way we do things won't cost jobs. And even if it did, that' hardly an excuse to stop destroying the planet. Besides, if the US cut i emissions substantially, we'd have some leverage in getting China to do same. But as it is, China won't cut because the US won't, and the US won cut because China won't. Somebody's got to take that first step.

Manufacturing causes pollution... direct and indirect (power plants). If you cut manufacturing, you cut jobs. People still want things. Those things get made in countries like China.

As I said, we can start putting pressure on China when we've got our own
ducks in a row. Until then, our word means nothing.

Stop buying stuff, including whatever mostly Chinese made, electricity-using tech you might be using for any tech hobby projects,
and I might believe you.

We will always need to manufacture things. However, we can change our energy sources to be less polluting. And we don't have to stop polluting entirely, just to below a level where it's manageable. We could put tariffs on Chinese goods to protect American clean manufacturing, for example. Trump put tariffs on them and we didn't even get anything in return except higher prices.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

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Mike Powell wrote to RON LAUZON <=-

Well, while they, a bunch of white people with (most likely) degrees in social "science," got to pat themselves on the back for the "good" they did, those kids were being forced to comply to white culture in a white educational environment.

And that's the story of the Left Elites.

They get an "education", think they are smarter than everyone, push their plans through that fail horribly and they still aren't smart enough to understand that they aren't nearly as smart as they think.

The Dunning-Kruger Effect in action.


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On 09 Nov 2021, Ron Lauzon said the following...

Well, while they, a bunch of white people with (most likely) degrees social "science," got to pat themselves on the back for the "good" th did, those kids were being forced to comply to white culture in a whi educational environment.

And that's the story of the Left Elites.
They get an "education", think they are smarter than everyone, push
their plans through that fail horribly and they still aren't smart
enough to understand that they aren't nearly as smart as they think.
The Dunning-Kruger Effect in action.

Seeing as they've got an education in their area of expertise, they know considerably more about that subject than you do. When you think that you're more of an expert than they are in their field of expertise, it's you that
are demonstrating the Dunning-Kruger effect, not they.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

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Jeff Thiele wrote to Ron Lauzon <=-

Seeing as they've got an education in their area of expertise, they
know considerably more about that subject than you do.

Just more delusion from the Leftie "Elites".


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On 10 Nov 2021, Ron Lauzon said the following...

Seeing as they've got an education in their area of expertise, they know considerably more about that subject than you do.

Just more delusion from the Leftie "Elites".

Thinking you know more than someone who has studied a subject for years, possibly decades, is definitely a delusion, Ron.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

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