//Hello Jeff,//

on *17.02.22* at *0:42:43* You wrote in area *POLITICS*
to *Shaun Buzza* about *"Re: New to POLITICS"*.

Yes, the bare board Pi Zero W only costs $10 USD. But it would be
completely useless without adding $10 for the power supply, and $20-ish
for a microSD card. And it would still be pretty useless without some
way to interact with the device; most people use a screen, a keyboard,
and a mouse. Assuming you pay only $10 each, that's another $30, for a
grand total of $70. And that's probably a low estimate! This doesn't
even consider the continuing cost of electricity and internet access...

Those are incidental costs, and not beyond the means of the average FidoNet user. A display, keyboard, and mouse are not required for a headless setup. Presumably a FidoNet user already has a computer with which they can ssh (or telnet) into the BBS machine. The "power supply"
is an ordinary phone charger. And $20 is pretty steep for a low-end SD card. The storage requirements for a bare-bones BBS running under Linux are not that great at all.

Talk is cheap...lets see your $10 BBS.

Regards,
Brian Indy
--- WinPoint 398.2
* Origin: Svengoolie is King (1:229/426.31)

On 16 Feb 2022, Brian Indy said the following...

Talk is cheap...lets see your $10 BBS.

I already have everything I'd need to get a BBS running on a Pi Zero W lying around. It wouldn't cost me a thing. I could also set one up on Google cloud, which would not cost me a thing.

How exactly do you propose that you "see" this BBS? How would you know either what it's running on or how much it cost me? And finally, what's in it for
me? What incentive do I have to create this?

Jeff.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

//Hello Jeff,//

on *17.02.22* at *1:16:43* You wrote in area *POLITICS*
to *Brian Indy* about *"Re: $10 BBS - Fact or Crap?"*.

On 16 Feb 2022, Brian Indy said the following...

Talk is cheap...lets see your $10 BBS.

I already have everything I'd need to get a BBS running on a Pi Zero W lying around. It wouldn't cost me a thing. I could also set one up on Google cloud, which would not cost me a thing.

How exactly do you propose that you "see" this BBS? How would you know either what it's running on or how much it cost me? And finally, what's
in it for me? What incentive do I have to create this?

Just what I suspected...you're blowing steam out your port hole.

Hot air, no substance...oh yeah anyone can be a Sysop for $10...blah blah blah...

You could just shut up and do it,but that won't happen. HAHAHAHA...

Where's the ignore button...I saw it around here someplace.



Regards,
Brian Indy
--- WinPoint 398.2
* Origin: Pass the pizza (1:229/426.31)

Hot air, no substance...oh yeah anyone can be a Sysop for $10...blah blah

^^^^^^
Even if he did set up such a thing with random parts he has lying around,
he's not *anyone*. 'Anyone' includes a homeless man, a disabled person, an elderly person, even M'biti from some tribe in Africa who has never even seen technology. None of these would necessarily have everything else required beyond that $10 circuit board.

I say 'Crap'. *Anyone* cannot actually run a BBS with only a $10 investment.

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (1:229/110)

On 16 Feb 2022, Brian Indy said the following...

I already have everything I'd need to get a BBS running on a Pi Zero lying around. It wouldn't cost me a thing. I could also set one up on Google cloud, which would not cost me a thing.

How exactly do you propose that you "see" this BBS? How would you kno either what it's running on or how much it cost me? And finally, what in it for me? What incentive do I have to create this?

Just what I suspected...you're blowing steam out your port hole.

Nope, I'm asking you how you will know for certain whether a particular BBS
is running on a Pi Zero W, and how I will be compensated for my time and effort.

Since you did not bother to even attempt to answer either of those questions, it looks like you're the one "blowing steam out your port hole."

Hot air, no substance...oh yeah anyone can be a Sysop for $10...blah blah blah...

It is possible to do.

You could just shut up and do it,but that won't happen. HAHAHAHA...

I could, but why would I do so when you cannot provide a means to test it? I could go through all of that trouble, only for you to say that it's not
really a Pi Zero W. Tell me how you'll confirm it and I'll consider it.

Where's the ignore button...I saw it around here someplace.

All you have to do is say how you'll test it. But if you'd rather back down, that's fine with me, too.

Jeff.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 16 Feb 2022, Shaun Buzza said the following...

Hot air, no substance...oh yeah anyone can be a Sysop for $10...blah

^^^^^^
Even if he did set up such a thing with random parts he has lying around, he's not *anyone*. 'Anyone' includes a homeless man, a disabled person,
an elderly person, even M'biti from some tribe in Africa who has never even seen technology. None of these would necessarily have everything
else required beyond that $10 circuit board.

I say 'Crap'. *Anyone* cannot actually run a BBS with only a $10 investment.

The vast majority of people have access to these resources. Being homeless, disabled, or elderly does not preclude one from being a "sysop." Being out in the boonies with no access to technology might, but that's not who we're talking about here.

The average person in any moderately advanced country, which definitely includes Lee, has access to the equipment needed to run a BBS.

Jeff.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

All you have to do is say how you'll test it. But if you'd rather back down, that's fine with me, too.

WOW! The stones on this guy! \(@_@)/

Even when multiple people are telling you that you're being foolish, you
still won't listen?

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (1:229/110)

The vast majority of people have access to these resources. Being homeless, disabled, or elderly does not preclude one from being a
"sysop." Being out in the boonies with no access to technology might,
but that's not who we're talking about here.

The average person in any moderately advanced country, which definitely includes Lee, has access to the equipment needed to run a BBS.

Jeff.

You seem to have no idea who we're talking about here. *ANYONE*. Not 'the
vast majority'. Not 'the average person'. A-N-Y-O-N-E. For just ten bucks, no more.

Eventually, you're going to have to give up. You're flat out wrong, and even you know it.

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (1:229/110)

On 16 Feb 2022, Shaun Buzza said the following...

All you have to do is say how you'll test it. But if you'd rather bac down, that's fine with me, too.

WOW! The stones on this guy! \(@_@)/

Even when multiple people are telling you that you're being foolish, you still won't listen?

I can easily set up a BBS for under $10, but I'd like to know first how it
will be tested. How is that foolish?

Jeff.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 16 Feb 2022, Shaun Buzza said the following...

The vast majority of people have access to these resources. Being homeless, disabled, or elderly does not preclude one from being a "sysop." Being out in the boonies with no access to technology might, but that's not who we're talking about here.

The average person in any moderately advanced country, which definite includes Lee, has access to the equipment needed to run a BBS.

You seem to have no idea who we're talking about here. *ANYONE*. Not 'the vast majority'. Not 'the average person'. A-N-Y-O-N-E. For just ten
bucks, no more.

And what's the definition of "anyone?"

Anyone: any person whatever, or (esp. in negative statements and questions) a person, but without saying which person. (American Dictionary)

I was using it in the second sense.

Eventually, you're going to have to give up. You're flat out wrong, and even you know it.

I'm not technically wrong, and what's more, I'm absolutely correct about the ease with which someone of average means can become a "sysop."

Jeff.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

I can easily set up a BBS for under $10, but I'd like to know first how
it will be tested. How is that foolish?

Maybe you can, probably you can't. At least, not without using resources that fall outside of that $10 budget. Irrelevant. You are clearly operating with more knowledge about these things than "anyone" or "the average person", so
you do not qualify.

It is foolish to keep refusing to admit your mistake.

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (1:229/110)

And what's the definition of "anyone?"

Anyone: any person whatever, or (esp. in negative statements and questions) a person, but without saying which person. (American Dictionary)

I was using it in the second sense.

No, sorry, you were not. The context and grammar of your sentence precludes that definition. Nice try, still not gonna fly.

I'm not technically wrong, and what's more, I'm absolutely correct about the ease with which someone of average means can become a "sysop."

You are both technically and literally wrong in your original statement. Not "any person whatever" can become a SysOp for $10.

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (1:229/110)

On 16 Feb 2022, Shaun Buzza said the following...

I can easily set up a BBS for under $10, but I'd like to know first h it will be tested. How is that foolish?

Maybe you can, probably you can't. At least, not without using resources that fall outside of that $10 budget. Irrelevant. You are clearly operating with more knowledge about these things than "anyone" or "the average person", so you do not qualify.

That knowledge cost me nothing.

Jeff.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 16 Feb 2022, Shaun Buzza said the following...

It is foolish to keep refusing to admit your mistake.

It was not a mistake. It is entirely possible to set up a BBS on a Pi Zero W. No rules about using pre-existing resources that most people would have
access to were made. You made those up in an attempt to inflate the cost.

Jeff.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 16 Feb 2022, Shaun Buzza said the following...

And what's the definition of "anyone?"

Anyone: any person whatever, or (esp. in negative statements and questions) a person, but without saying which person. (American Dictionary)

I was using it in the second sense.

No, sorry, you were not. The context and grammar of your sentence precludes that definition. Nice try, still not gonna fly.

Absolutely I was. In fact the person I was referring to, but without saying which person, was Lee. That is who was being discussed at the time.

I'm not technically wrong, and what's more, I'm absolutely correct ab the ease with which someone of average means can become a "sysop."

You are both technically and literally wrong in your original statement. Not "any person whatever" can become a SysOp for $10.

Only if you misinterpret "anyone."

Jeff.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

That knowledge cost me nothing.

Make sure you tell your teachers that. Oh, and your boss. Since your time literally costs nothing, why is he paying you?

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (1:229/110)

It was not a mistake. It is entirely possible to set up a BBS on a Pi
Zero W. No rules about using pre-existing resources that most people
would have access to were made. You made those up in an attempt to
inflate the cost.

For the cost of a $10 Raspberry Pi Zero W, anyone can be a "sysop."

You set the rules, right there. I only informed you of your mistake.

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (1:229/110)

No, sorry, you were not. The context and grammar of your sentence precludes that definition. Nice try, still not gonna fly.

Absolutely I was. In fact the person I was referring to, but without saying which person, was Lee. That is who was being discussed at the
time.

Again, no you were not. Otherwise you wouldn't have made the argument that "anyone" meant "the average person".

Only if you misinterpret "anyone."

For the cost of a $10 Raspberry Pi Zero W, anyone can be a "sysop."

Pretty hard to misinterpret...

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (1:229/110)

On 16 Feb 2022, Shaun Buzza said the following...

That knowledge cost me nothing.

Make sure you tell your teachers that.

There were no Raspberry Pis when I was in school.

Oh, and your boss. Since your time
literally costs nothing, why is he paying you?

I don't use Raspberry Pis at work.

But now you're making the claim that I should be paying myself for the time I spent setting up a Raspberry Pi? You've gone off the deep end.

Jeff.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 16 Feb 2022, Shaun Buzza said the following...

It was not a mistake. It is entirely possible to set up a BBS on a Pi Zero W. No rules about using pre-existing resources that most people would have access to were made. You made those up in an attempt to inflate the cost.

For the cost of a $10 Raspberry Pi Zero W, anyone can be a "sysop."

You set the rules, right there. I only informed you of your mistake.

Only if you misinterpret "anyone." It has connotations that are different
from the literal meaning.

Jeff.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 16 Feb 2022, Shaun Buzza said the following...

No, sorry, you were not. The context and grammar of your sentenc precludes that definition. Nice try, still not gonna fly.

Absolutely I was. In fact the person I was referring to, but without saying which person, was Lee. That is who was being discussed at the time.

Again, no you were not. Otherwise you wouldn't have made the argument
that "anyone" meant "the average person".

I consider Lee to be an average person.

Only if you misinterpret "anyone."

For the cost of a $10 Raspberry Pi Zero W, anyone can be a "sysop."

Pretty hard to misinterpret...

One would think... but here we are. Are we having fun yet?

Jeff.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

That knowledge cost me nothing.

Make sure you tell your teachers that.

There were no Raspberry Pis when I was in school.

But you'd have zero knowledge if you didn't go to school.

Oh, and your boss. Since your time
literally costs nothing, why is he paying you?

I don't use Raspberry Pis at work.

And this is relevant, how?

But now you're making the claim that I should be paying myself for the time I spent setting up a Raspberry Pi? You've gone off the deep end.

I was wondering when you'd start using a 'straw man'. I'm making no such
claim.

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (1:229/110)

It was not a mistake. It is entirely possible to set up a BBS on Zero W. No rules about using pre-existing resources that most pe would have access to were made. You made those up in an attempt inflate the cost.

For the cost of a $10 Raspberry Pi Zero W, anyone can be a "sysop.

You set the rules, right there. I only informed you of your mistake.

Only if you misinterpret "anyone." It has connotations that are different from the literal meaning.

Yes, you already went over that. "Anyone" also means "the average person". Or are you still trying to misrepresent your statement? I'm not going to accept that.

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (1:229/110)

Absolutely I was. In fact the person I was referring to, but wit saying which person, was Lee. That is who was being discussed at time.

Again, no you were not. Otherwise you wouldn't have made the argument that "anyone" meant "the average person".

I consider Lee to be an average person.

Irrelevant.

Only if you misinterpret "anyone."

For the cost of a $10 Raspberry Pi Zero W, anyone can be a "sysop.

Pretty hard to misinterpret...

One would think... but here we are. Are we having fun yet?

Yes, here we are. You've just tried every trick in the book to pretend that you're definitely not wrong, and it was very entertaining. But,
unfortunately, reality disagrees. And that is very fun indeed. :)

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (1:229/110)

Brian Indy wrote to Jeff Thiele <=-

Just what I suspected...you're blowing steam out your port hole.

Hot air, no substance...oh yeah anyone can be a Sysop for $10...blah
blah blah...

You could just shut up and do it,but that won't happen. HAHAHAHA...

Where's the ignore button...I saw it around here someplace.

One thing that we notice about Lefties is that they constantly poo-poo people for actually doing things - something that the Leftie is totally incapable of doing.

Remember, Lefties believe that they are in the "intellectual class". Thomas Sowell calls them "The Anointed Ones (they believe)". To them what they do is profound and important and what everyone else does is "just grunt work that takes no brains" - but is, in reality, totally beyond their ability to do.

That's one of the reasons Lefties are so mad all the time. They see people who are "below" them doing much better financially. They think that's "unfair" and demand that they get their "fair share". They cannot comprehend the simple idea that they are worthless - and so get compensated at that level.


... Gravity doesn't exist. The Earth sucks.
___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

--- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A47 2021/09/29 (Linux/64)
* Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (1:120/616)

On 17 Feb 2022, Ron L. said the following...

One thing that we notice about Lefties is that they constantly poo-poo people for actually doing things - something that the Leftie is totally incapable of doing.

<Squawk!>Lefties always this!<Squawk!>Lefties always that!<Squawk!>

Remember, Lefties believe that they are in the "intellectual class". Thomas Sowell calls them "The Anointed Ones (they believe)". To them
what they do is profound and important and what everyone else does is "just grunt work that takes no brains" - but is, in reality, totally beyond their ability to do.

<Squawk!>Lefties!><Squawk!>Intellectual class!<Squawk!>Anointed Ones!<Squawk!>

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

I run one of my other systems on a pi.

There's actually a surprising number of Pi-based BBSes online. I used to think I was being original doing this, until I joined my first FDN. =P

I put my pi online as a BBS because a sysop on FSXnet, "apam," wrote a BBS package called Magicka and had set up a pi installer for it. :)


* SLMR 2.1a * The 4 major food groups: fast, frozen, junk, & spoiled.
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

Being a fidonet user does not mean one could pull it off. There is a guy
who calls himself The Millionaire on DOVEnet. He is like a synchronet groupie. Knows how to post (a lot) on Vertuan, but he has yet to put his
"future" BBS online (it has been probably two years), even with offers of
free cloud hosting.

Huh. I'm familiar with The Millionaire, since he posts on fsxNet from time to time. But I was never aware of this backstory...I suppose that's because he hasn't mentioned building his own BBS recently.

Yeah, he has not mentioned it lately, but he does keep asking Digital Man
for Synchronet features so he can use them on his future BBS.

At some point, he was wanting DM to make a version of Synchronet that would
run on an IPad. Later, someone tried to get him set up on a hosted VM. I *think* he even briefly may have run a BBS there before realizing it was
not for him.

To run one on a VM, you not only have to figure the BBS software out, you
also have to be familiar with (or be able to figure out the logistics of) logging onto a remote machine and doing things (usually) without a GUI.

There is a former sysop that still sometimes logs into my board who is a
former sysop because he could not get the hang of that second part. In particular, the idea that he needed to set up his own backups even though
the BBS was hosted on someone else's machine.

"Anyone" cannot do it.


* SLMR 2.1a * OS/2 VirusScan - "Windows found: Remove it? [Y/y]"
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

While this discussion has been interesting, and has certainly increased the traffic levels here, I have a suggestion. If the point is to try to help people understand how little it takes to set up a BBS, it might be better
if it were hashed out in a more appropriate echo.

It is not an issue to discuss it here, but I doubt most people (smart ones anyway) who are looking for tips to set up a BBS are going to be looking in
a Politics echo. :)

That said, I am not 100% sure where it would belong. Maybe the MYSTIC
echo, since I think we've been talking specifically about setting up a
Mystic BBS. There is also BBS Carnival, which is at least BBS related.


* SLMR 2.1a * There are no answers, only cross-references.
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

Most people have government-issued photo IDs for other purposes, so have crossed those hurdles already.

Most <> All.

Fido user <> anyone. (o_O)

Not even virtually anyone, and not every fido user can set one up,
especially on an VM.


* SLMR 2.1a * If it ain't water-cooled... it's a terminal!
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

Most people have government-issued photo IDs for other purposes
have crossed those hurdles already.

Most <> All.

Fido user <> anyone. (o_O)

There are plenty of non-FidoNet sysops, especially in the 8-bit community.

They are already sysops. We are talking people who are not, who may or may
not have such skills, time, desire, etc.


* SLMR 2.1a * Arkansas figured out a way to get rid of Billy-Jeff.
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

I think we need to stiplate that in order for someone to be
running something that qualifies as "a BBS" we need to
stipulate that it is available for users.

That flies in the face of those who state that their BBS is not
available for users, and that users are obsolete anyhow.

Has anyone who is a part of this discussion claimed that users are obsolete?
I have read several Z2 sysops in other echos claiming that, but not anyone
who is in this discussion here.


* SLMR 2.1a * Whips & chains? Sorry, that's a hardware problem!
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

I put my pi online as a BBS because a sysop on FSXnet, "apam," wrote a
BBS package called Magicka and had set up a pi installer for it. :)

Cool! fsxNet is my primary FDN, and I've seen some of apam's other works.
I've used his guide in order to set up DOS doors on my Pi using DOSBox.

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (1:229/110)

While this discussion has been interesting, and has certainly increased the traffic levels here, I have a suggestion. If the point is to try to help people understand how little it takes to set up a BBS, it might be better if it were hashed out in a more appropriate echo.

It is not an issue to discuss it here, but I doubt most people (smart
ones anyway) who are looking for tips to set up a BBS are going to be looking in a Politics echo. :)

That said, I am not 100% sure where it would belong. Maybe the MYSTIC echo, since I think we've been talking specifically about setting up a Mystic BBS. There is also BBS Carnival, which is at least BBS related.

Or perhaps RBERRYPI? After all, the original boast was about creating a $10 Pi-based BBS...

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (1:229/110)

Has anyone who is a part of this discussion claimed that users are obsolete? I have read several Z2 sysops in other echos claiming that,
but not anyone who is in this discussion here.

To be clear, I am a Z2 SysOp. And I fully believe that users are, in fact,
the *core* of a good BBS.

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (1:229/110)

On 18 Feb 2022, Mike Powell said the following...

Most people have government-issued photo IDs for other purpose have crossed those hurdles already.

Most <> All.

Fido user <> anyone. (o_O)

Not even virtually anyone, and not every fido user can set one up, especially on an VM.

The information on how to do so is out there, and free. Once the VM is
created, setting up Mystic in a Debian instance is not substantially
different from setting up Mystic on a Pi. "Mystic Guy" on YouTube has a
number of very helpful videos that essentially talk one through the process,
to include setting up fsxNet access, which is not substantially different
from setting up FidoNet access.

If someone wants to do it badly enough, they can overcome the hurdles. Isn't that what you say about voting? Except, of course, voting is a right and setting up a BBS isn't.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 18 Feb 2022, Mike Powell said the following...

Most people have government-issued photo IDs for other purposes
have crossed those hurdles already.

Most <> All.

Fido user <> anyone. (o_O)

There are plenty of non-FidoNet sysops, especially in the 8-bit communit

They are already sysops. We are talking people who are not, who may or may not have such skills, time, desire, etc.

If they want to badly enough, it is within reach. Otherwise there would be no "sysops" at all.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 18 Feb 2022, Mike Powell said the following...

I think we need to stiplate that in order for someone to be
running something that qualifies as "a BBS" we need to
stipulate that it is available for users.

That flies in the face of those who state that their BBS is not available for users, and that users are obsolete anyhow.

Has anyone who is a part of this discussion claimed that users are obsolete? I have read several Z2 sysops in other echos claiming that,
but not anyone who is in this discussion here.

For what it's worth, I said that users aren't necessary for someone to become
a "sysop." If one goes through all of the steps of setting up and maintaining
a publicly-accessible BBS, but no users log in, is one not a "sysop?" Does one only become a "sysop" when that first user logs in? Are users required for the "sysop" to "op" the "sys?"

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

Hello Jeff,

There are plenty of non-FidoNet sysops, especially in the 8-bit communit

They are already sysops. We are talking people who are not, who MP<may

or may not have such skills, time, desire, etc.

If they want to badly enough, it is within reach. Otherwise there would be no "sysops" at all.

The real reason as to why there are so few sysops left in Fidonet
is because most folks who might want to become Fidonet sysops have
not been asked. Many do not even know about Fidonet. So whose fault
is that? The software is out there. Including free software.

--Lee

--
Probably the best beer in the world

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

The real reason as to why there are so few sysops left in Fidonet
is because most folks who might want to become Fidonet sysops have
not been asked. Many do not even know about Fidonet. So whose fault
is that? The software is out there. Including free software.

This is true. I had certainly heard about, and taken part in, Fidonet, way
back in the day, but I had completely forgotten about it by the time I built PiBBS. If I hadn't been invited by my Hub controller, I would likely never
have come here.

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (1:229/110)

on *18.02.22* at *22:33:09* You wrote in area *POLITICS*
to *Mike Powell* about *"Re: Setting up a BBS"*.

On 18 Feb 2022, Mike Powell said the following...

I think we need to stiplate that in order for someone to be
running something that qualifies as "a BBS" we need to
stipulate that it is available for users.

That flies in the face of those who state that their BBS is not
available for users, and that users are obsolete anyhow.

Has anyone who is a part of this discussion claimed that users are
obsolete? I have read several Z2 sysops in other echos claiming that,
but not anyone who is in this discussion here.

For what it's worth, I said that users aren't necessary for someone to become a "sysop." If one goes through all of the steps of setting up and maintaining a publicly-accessible BBS, but no users log in, is one not a "sysop?" Does one only become a "sysop" when that first user logs in? Are users required for the "sysop" to "op" the "sys?"

You might want to re-read what I wrote above. I said "available for users." I did NOT say "used by users."

But it is definately far more than simply running the BBS software when you want to play with it.



--- WinPoint 398.2
* Origin: What's the Point (1:229/426.27)

On 19 Feb 2022, Al Thompson said the following...

For what it's worth, I said that users aren't necessary for someone t become a "sysop." If one goes through all of the steps of setting up maintaining a publicly-accessible BBS, but no users log in, is one no "sysop?" Does one only become a "sysop" when that first user logs in? users required for the "sysop" to "op" the "sys?"

You might want to re-read what I wrote above. I said "available for users." I did NOT say "used by users."

The difference is negligible. A system can be "available for users" but not "used by users."

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

on *18.02.22* at *21:53:00* You wrote in area *POLITICS*
to *ALL* about *"Setting up a BBS"*.

It is not an issue to discuss it here, but I doubt most people (smart
ones anyway) who are looking for tips to set up a BBS are going to be looking in
a Politics echo. :)

Just out of idle curiosity, are there any general chat echos that people actually use? I joined a handful of echos a week or so ago, and only 3 of those have had even a single message, and 2 of them are dedicated to running points, or Winpoint specifically.

I expected there to be less traffic than when I was a Sysop in the 80s/90s, but I figured that there'd be at least some.


--- WinPoint 398.2
* Origin: What's the Point (1:229/426.27)

On 02-18-22 16:55, Mike Powell <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Setting up a BBS <=-

I think we need to stiplate that in order for someone to be
running something that qualifies as "a BBS" we need to
stipulate that it is available for users.

That flies in the face of those who state that their BBS is not
available for users, and that users are obsolete anyhow.

Has anyone who is a part of this discussion claimed that users are obsolete? I have read several Z2 sysops in other echos claiming that,
but not anyone who is in this discussion here.

I have not heard that in this echo, but I have heard it said by
prominent Z2 "sysops" in sysop echos.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)



... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 01:30:48, 19 Feb 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

I put my pi online as a BBS because a sysop on FSXnet, "apam," wrote a BBS package called Magicka and had set up a pi installer for it. :)

Cool! fsxNet is my primary FDN, and I've seen some of apam's other works. I've used his guide in order to set up DOS doors on my Pi using DOSBox.

He has some pretty cool doors that will run native on the pi, too.
Galactic Dynasty (similar to BRE), For Honour (similar to LORD), a couple of slot games, and even a version of Oregon Trail.


* SLMR 2.1a * Anything good is either illegal, immoral or fattening.
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

That said, I am not 100% sure where it would belong. Maybe the MYSTIC echo, since I think we've been talking specifically about setting up a Mystic BBS. There is also BBS Carnival, which is at least BBS related.

Or perhaps RBERRYPI? After all, the original boast was about creating a $10 Pi-based BBS...

Maybe. That one is gated to Usenet where there seem to be a lot of folks
who know the Pi well. They'd probably shoot more holes into the "I can do
it with a Pi for $10" claim than we could.


* SLMR 2.1a * Sir! Romulan Warbird decloaking off th #%NO CARRIER
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

To be clear, I am a Z2 SysOp. And I fully believe that users are, in fact, the *core* of a good BBS.

I thought you were in Canada? And I agree. I don't have many users left
from the heyday, but I am glad to have the ones I do.


* SLMR 2.1a * EBCDIC: Erase Backup Chew Disk Ignite Cards
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

If someone wants to do it badly enough, they can overcome the hurdles. Isn't that what you say about voting? Except, of course, voting is a right and setting up a BBS isn't.

I have done both. Setting up a BBS takes more effort and skill. Surprised
you cannot see that difference... no, wait, I am not.


* SLMR 2.1a * Tagline dispenser temporarily out of order.
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

Just out of idle curiosity, are there any general chat echos that people actua
y use? I joined a handful of echos a week or so ago, and only 3 of those have
ad even a single message, and 2 of them are dedicated to running points, or Wi
oint specifically.

There are but, as you have pointed out, some of them have "squaters" who
have taken them over and tend to only post about subjects of interest to
them. Asian Link used to be a chat echo but is now mostly about linux, for example.

There is Coffee Klatsch (sp?) which picks up whenever someone posts
something there. Memories is active, although the chatter there does
lean towards the past it does not always.

I expected there to be less traffic than when I was a Sysop in the 80s/90s, bu
I figured that there'd be at least some.

One FTN network that has an active general chat echo is FSXnet, and Dovenet (QWK based) also has an active general chat echo.

I carry both networks here, and offer FTN feeds for Dove.


* SLMR 2.1a * Psychoceramics: The study of crackpots.
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

Has anyone who is a part of this discussion claimed that users are obsolete? I have read several Z2 sysops in other echos claiming that, but not anyone who is in this discussion here.

I have not heard that in this echo, but I have heard it said by
prominent Z2 "sysops" in sysop echos.

I often feel like questioning that stance when I seem them say it, but I
don't bother. I don't have as many users as I did c 1989-1994, but I still have a few.


* SLMR 2.1a * I'm not tense, just terribly A*L*E*R*T.
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

The difference is negligible. A system can be "available for users" but not "used by users."

My demarcation would be:

available = a BBS with a BBS sysop
not available = a point with a point user

Now, those users don't have to be public, though. There used to be several BBSes that were by invitation and/or private to the groups they supported.
But they are availble.

And that point user, if they are using BBS software, is a potential sysop
for sure.


* SLMR 2.1a * A seminar on Time Travel will be held 2 weeks ago....
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

I put my pi online as a BBS because a sysop on FSXnet, "apam," wrot BBS package called Magicka and had set up a pi installer for it. :

Cool! fsxNet is my primary FDN, and I've seen some of apam's other works I've used his guide in order to set up DOS doors on my Pi using DOSBox.

He has some pretty cool doors that will run native on the pi, too. Galactic Dynasty (similar to BRE), For Honour (similar to LORD), a
couple of slot games, and even a version of Oregon Trail.

I will definitely have to check out For Honour. LORD is one of my favorite
door games, and is actually my inspiration to build my own. Thanks for the
info on that!

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (1:229/110)

That said, I am not 100% sure where it would belong. Maybe the MYS echo, since I think we've been talking specifically about setting u Mystic BBS. There is also BBS Carnival, which is at least BBS rela

Or perhaps RBERRYPI? After all, the original boast was about creating a Pi-based BBS...

Maybe. That one is gated to Usenet where there seem to be a lot of folks who know the Pi well. They'd probably shoot more holes into the "I can
do it with a Pi for $10" claim than we could.

Is that necessary, though? We've already shot so many holes through that
boast that a sieve would hold more water...

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (1:229/110)

To be clear, I am a Z2 SysOp. And I fully believe that users are, in fac the *core* of a good BBS.

I thought you were in Canada? And I agree. I don't have many users left from the heyday, but I am glad to have the ones I do.

Yes, that's correct. I was mistaken when I said I was a Z2. I fully admit my mistake. Unlike some people, I am capable of doing that. (^_^)

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (1:229/110)

On 19 Feb 2022, Mike Powell said the following...

If someone wants to do it badly enough, they can overcome the hurdles. I that what you say about voting? Except, of course, voting is a right and setting up a BBS isn't.

I have done both. Setting up a BBS takes more effort and skill. Surprised you cannot see that difference... no, wait, I am not.

And I'm surprised that you refuse to see the similarities... no, wait, I am not.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

Brian Indy wrote to Jeff Thiele <=-

Talk is cheap...lets see your $10 BBS.

Marisa runs a Synchronet hosting company and occasionally offers free Synchronet VPSes. Doesn't get much cheaper than that.

She advertises on DOVENet.




... Listen in total darkness, very quietly
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

//Hello Mike,//

on *19.02.22* at *14:26:00* You wrote in area *POLITICS*
to *SHAUN BUZZA* about *"Re: Setting up a BBS"*.

Or perhaps RBERRYPI? After all, the original boast was about creating a
$10 Pi-based BBS...

Maybe. That one is gated to Usenet where there seem to be a lot of folks who know the Pi well. They'd probably shoot more holes into the "I can
do
it with a Pi for $10" claim than we could.

I was pulling RBERRYPI for a week. Not one single post about Pi's just a few guys talking and reminiscing about CP/M and disk structures and other stuff not related to the Raspberry Pi. So I dropped it.



Regards,
Brian Indy
--- WinPoint 398.2
* Origin: (1:229/426.31)

//Hello Kurt,//

on *17.02.22* at *19:12:00* You wrote in area *POLITICS*
to *Brian Indy* about *"Re: $10 BBS - Fact or Crap?"*.

Brian Indy wrote to Jeff Thiele <=-

Talk is cheap...lets see your $10 BBS.

Marisa runs a Synchronet hosting company and occasionally offers free Synchronet VPSes. Doesn't get much cheaper than that.

She advertises on DOVENet.

Man that is so awesome. How DOES she do it. She doesn't do it on a $10 Pi W does she.

That's ok...no one else does either.


Regards,
Brian Indy
--- WinPoint 398.2
* Origin: Pass the pizza (1:229/426.31)

On 19 Feb 2022, Brian Indy said the following...

Marisa runs a Synchronet hosting company and occasionally offers free Synchronet VPSes. Doesn't get much cheaper than that.

She advertises on DOVENet.

Man that is so awesome. How DOES she do it. She doesn't do it on a $10
Pi W does she.

That's ok...no one else does either.

Well, when you phrase it that way, I have indeed run a BBS on a $10 Pi Zero
W. I'm not claiming that the other parts needed to run it fit within a $10 budget, or that I didn't need electricity or internet service, only that the
Pi Zero w lists for $10 and I have run a BBS on one.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

Well, when you phrase it that way, I have indeed run a BBS on a $10 Pi Zero W. I'm not claiming that the other parts needed to run it fit
within a $10 budget, or that I didn't need electricity or internet service, only that the Pi Zero w lists for $10 and I have run a BBS on one.

You're not claiming that...*now*...after we all proved that it would be impossible...

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (1:229/110)

On 19 Feb 2022, Shaun Buzza said the following...

Well, when you phrase it that way, I have indeed run a BBS on a $10 P Zero W. I'm not claiming that the other parts needed to run it fit within a $10 budget, or that I didn't need electricity or internet service, only that the Pi Zero w lists for $10 and I have run a BBS o one.

You're not claiming that...*now*...after we all proved that it would be impossible...

It's not the same claim. I'm responding to Brian's claim.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

Well, when you phrase it that way, I have indeed run a BBS on a Zero W. I'm not claiming that the other parts needed to run it f within a $10 budget, or that I didn't need electricity or intern service, only that the Pi Zero w lists for $10 and I have run a one.

You're not claiming that...*now*...after we all proved that it would impossible...

It's not the same claim. I'm responding to Brian's claim.

Yes, clearly it's not the same. Because we proved that your last one was impossible.

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (1:229/110)

Hello Al,

It is not an issue to discuss it here, but I doubt most people (smart
ones anyway) who are looking for tips to set up a BBS are going to be
looking in a Politics echo. :)

Just out of idle curiosity, are there any general chat echos that people actually use?

Yes.

I joined a handful of echos a week or so ago, and only 3 of those have had even a single message, and 2 of them are dedicated to running points, or Winpoint specifically.

This echo has lots of messages, from many participants. There are
also others, such as Fidonews, which also have lots of messages and participants. And lets not forget about the Cooking echo, which has
lots of messages and participants, along with tons of recipes ...

I expected there to be less traffic than when I was a Sysop in the 80s/90s,
but I figured that there'd be at least some.

Not all participants in Fidonet are sysops.

--Lee

--
Big Or Small We Lay Them All

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

This echo has lots of messages, from many participants. There are
also others, such as Fidonews, which also have lots of messages and participants. And lets not forget about the Cooking echo, which has
lots of messages and participants, along with tons of recipes ...

I really like the Cooking echo. I've gotten so many meal ideas from there!

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (1:229/110)

on *19.02.22* at *20:50:55* You wrote in area *POLITICS*
to *Al Thompson* about *"Setting up a BBS"*.

Not all participants in Fidonet are sysops.

I would say that far less than 1% of Fidonet participants are sysops. Or, at least that was the case when I was a Sysop. I don't have a real feel for the numbers now.


--- WinPoint 398.2
* Origin: What's the Point (1:229/426.27)

Hello Shaun,

This echo has lots of messages, from many participants. There are
also others, such as Fidonews, which also have lots of messages and
participants. And lets not forget about the Cooking echo, which has
lots of messages and participants, along with tons of recipes ...

I really like the Cooking echo. I've gotten so many meal ideas from there!

Then learn more by decloaking and becoming an active participant.
Lots of great folks there. I leave politics and religion behind when participating. That way, breaking bread with others is fun for all,
without the slings of outrageous fortune ...

--Lee

--
Impossible is nothing

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Shaun,

To be clear, I am a Z2 SysOp. And I fully believe that users are,

in fac

the *core* of a good BBS.

I thought you were in Canada? And I agree. I don't have many users

left

from the heyday, but I am glad to have the ones I do.

Yes, that's correct. I was mistaken when I said I was a Z2. I fully admit my
mistake. Unlike some people, I am capable of doing that. (^_^)

Wow! Canada being part of Europe! Who'd a thunk it?

--Lee

--
What can brown do for you?

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Everybody,

The difference is negligible. A system can be "available for users" but not
"used by users."

My demarcation would be:

available = a BBS with a BBS sysop
not available = a point with a point user

What is the difference between a sysop and a point? None.

Now, those users don't have to be public, though.

No fucking shit.

There used to be several BBSes that were by invitation and/or private to the
groups they supported.

A sysop is lord and master of his/her own universe.

But they are availble.

No fucking shit.

And that point user, if they are using BBS software, is a potential sysop for sure.

All individuals (participants and lurkers) are potential sysops.

What we have in Fidonet are sysops, and probationary sysops.
All are allowed to play in the sandbox, regardless of status.

--Lee

--
Erections, That's Our Game

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Everybody,

If someone wants to do it badly enough, they can overcome the hurdles.
Isn't
that what you say about voting? Except, of course, voting is a right and
setting up a BBS isn't.

I have done both. Setting up a BBS takes more effort and skill. Surprised
you cannot see that difference... no, wait, I am not.

Synchronet takes very little effort, and almost no skill.
Just have to learn how to connect the dots and you're in.

--Lee

--
It's not for women.

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

I will definitely have to check out For Honour. LORD is one of my favorite door games, and is actually my inspiration to build my own. Thanks for the info on that!

For Honour is also open source. :) And there is a javascript version of
LORD.


* SLMR 2.1a * Air pollution is a mist demeanor.
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

Maybe. That one is gated to Usenet where there seem to be a lot of folks
who know the Pi well. They'd probably shoot more holes into the "I can do
it with a Pi for $10" claim than we could.

I was pulling RBERRYPI for a week. Not one single post about Pi's just a few ys talking and reminiscing about CP/M and disk structures and other stuff not lated to the Raspberry Pi. So I dropped it.

They've strayed off topic lately some, but they will talk RPi anytime
someone asks a question or presents info about their project. Most
recently, there was a discussion about ways to power one.


* SLMR 2.1a * I idiot-proof my programs, but along comes a bigger idiot
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

Marisa runs a Synchronet hosting company and occasionally offers free Synchronet VPSes. Doesn't get much cheaper than that.

She advertises on DOVENet.

Man that is so awesome. How DOES she do it.

As Kurt pointed out, the deal is only for sysops who want to host
Synchronet BBSes. It also requires that the sysop understand how to sysop their system via remote, that they take their own backups, etc.

Some of that may sound like givens, but they do weed folks out, which is
how she is able to (re)offer a free hosting space.


* SLMR 2.1a * Perhaps this situation requires a more Klingon response.
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

Hello Al,

Not all participants in Fidonet are sysops.

I would say that far less than 1% of Fidonet participants are sysops. Or, at least that was the case when I was a Sysop. I don't have a real feel for
the numbers now.

Regardless of what the actual numbers or percentages are, or may be,
all are welcome to participate, not just sysops.

--Lee

--
Because not everyone likes licorice

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)