Hello Everybody,

What are all the "non-lefties" in the forum gonna do to stop
Russian bad boy Vladimir Putin from invading Ukraine? Is it the
best you can do is criticize US President Joe Biden? I am sure
the people of Kiev and Ukraine appreciate all the help you are
showing them by wagging your little fingers at President Biden.
Is there anything else you can think of doing?

I mean, you are talking about a Russian madman who has already
invaded a part of Ukraine (Crimea) and illegally annexed it as
a part of Russia. And then continued by encouraging a civil war
inside of Ukraine so as to illegally annex even more territory
for Russia.

GWB invaded Iraq based on false pretenses. Maybe that is what
"non-lefties" want in response to Putin's actions. A US invasion
of Ukraine, based on false pretenses. And since President Joe
Biden is apparently unwilling to do that, he is fair game for
criticism. Did I get that right?

When Clinton lied, nobody died. When GWB lied, thousands died.

How many millions will die when the next POTUS does what GWB did?

--Lee

--
No Trump! No KKK! No fascist USA!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Lee Lofaso wrote to ALL <=-

What are all the "non-lefties" in the forum gonna do to stop
Russian bad boy Vladimir Putin from invading Ukraine?

So it's Redirection Day today from our resident delusional Leftie Elite (wannabee status).

He needs to redirect our attention from the Leftie failed Rittenhouse trial.
He needs to redirect our attention away from the higher prices that we all pay due to the afwul policies his boy (Biden) put in place.

Now, what other Leftie failures does he need to distract us from by pointing out something that has no impact on our country at all?

When Clinton lied, nobody died.

No. They just got sexually abused when Clinton lied.


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What are all the "non-lefties" in the forum gonna do to stop
Russian bad boy Vladimir Putin from invading Ukraine? Is it the

Only Biden could help, but that's money that can be better spent on bogus infrastructure bills. Biden doesn't want to start a ridiculous war that will potentially cause a loss of money. Biden's all about saving money, so that way there's more of it at his disposal.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

Hello Aaron,

What are all the "non-lefties" in the forum gonna do to stop
Russian bad boy Vladimir Putin from invading Ukraine? Is it the

Only Biden could help, but that's money that can be better spent on
bogus infrastructure bills.

You know that that bill is popular with everyone.

Even republicans who voted against the bill are mailing their constituents and telling folks how good this will be for them.

It's much better than the wall the previous administration planned.

Ttyl :-),
Al

... YouTube, Twitter, & FaceBook will combine to form YouTwitFace
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

BY: Alan Ianson(1:153/757)

It's much better than the wall the previous administration planned.

The wall isnt just about keeping people from coming across the border, its also to stop crap like fentanyl.


--- WWIV 5.5.1.3261
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Hello Matt,

It's much better than the wall the previous administration
planned.

The wall isnt just about keeping people from coming across the border,
its also to stop crap like fentanyl.

That would be a good reason for a wall, if it would stop the flow of those kind of things but it doesn't.

People find a way through, over, under or around.

Ttyl :-),
Al

... All real programs contain errors
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Hello Aaron,

What are all the "non-lefties" in the forum gonna do to stop
Russian bad boy Vladimir Putin from invading Ukraine? Is it the

Only Biden could help, but that's money that can be better spent on bogus infrastructure bills. Biden doesn't want to start a ridiculous war that will
potentially cause a loss of money. Biden's all about saving money, so that way there's more of it at his disposal.

Please. Tell me again. What are *you* gonna do to stop Russian bad boy
Vladimir Putin from invading Ukraine?

--Lee

--
Pay your taxes!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

What are all the "non-lefties" in the forum gonna do to stop
Russian bad boy Vladimir Putin from invading Ukraine?

So it's Redirection Day today from our resident delusional Leftie Elite (wannabee status).

I am guessing we will do about the same thing that any of the resident "lefties" did about China messing around on India's border, or what
they will do when the PRC invades the ROC, or what they do about China's
abuses of their own Ughur citizens, or what they will do about China
building an Atlantic naval base on the West coast of Africa.

The difference will be that at least this "non-leftie" will be upset with Russia for invading a soverign state. I doubt most/any of the stuff I mentioned bothers them too much.

Funny, I don't remember Russia acting that way back before Biden got
elected. Well, they did maybe during that period between 2008 and 2016.
Maybe Putin knows which side will let other countries get away with anything.

He needs to redirect our attention from the Leftie failed Rittenhouse trial.

Maybe.

He needs to redirect our attention away from the higher prices that we all pay
due to the afwul policies his boy (Biden) put in place.

Certainly.

Now, what other Leftie failures does he need to distract us from by pointing out something that has no impact on our country at all?

Whatever Biden does today, and tomorrow, and...

When Clinton lied, nobody died.

No. They just got sexually abused when Clinton lied.

The families of those folks killed in that aspirin factory bombing, which
was another redirect to keep us distracted from what he did to his intern
while on the phone talking national security, would probably beg to differ
that nobody died.

I suspect there are also a few who are worried that they might go out like Jeffery Epstein did.


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It's much better than the wall the previous administration planned.

The wall isnt just about keeping people from coming across the border, its als
to stop crap like fentanyl.

Al lives in Canada and thinks that crap like fentanyl doesn't make it that
far North, so it is our problem and not his.


* SLMR 2.1a * Tell me, is something eluding you, Sunshine?
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That would be a good reason for a wall, if it would stop the flow of those kind of things but it doesn't.

People find a way through, over, under or around.

Making it more difficult would stop some of it.


* SLMR 2.1a * Does anybody here remember Vera Lynn?
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Hello Alan,

What are all the "non-lefties" in the forum gonna do to stop
Russian bad boy Vladimir Putin from invading Ukraine? Is it the

Only Biden could help, but that's money that can be better spent on
bogus infrastructure bills.

You know that that bill is popular with everyone.

Even republicans who voted against the bill are mailing their constituents and telling folks how good this will be for them.

It's much better than the wall the previous administration planned.

That may be. But what are all those "non-lefties" gonna do to
stop Russian bad boy Vladimir Putin from invading Ukraine?

--Lee

--
Say it loud! Say it clear! / Refugees are welcome here!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Matt,

It's much better than the wall the previous administration planned.

The wall isnt just about keeping people from coming across the border, its also to stop crap like fentanyl.

Those danged Mongols. No wonder China built a wall.

--Lee

--
If PBS won't do it, who will?

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Alan,

It's much better than the wall the previous administration
planned.

The wall isnt just about keeping people from coming across the border,
its also to stop crap like fentanyl.

That would be a good reason for a wall, if it would stop the flow of those kind of things but it doesn't.

There used to be a Berlin Wall. But Gorbachev tore it down.

People find a way through, over, under or around.

There also used to be an Iron Curtain ...

--Lee

--
Drive One

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
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On 12-05-21 19:52, Matt Munson <=-
spoke to Alan Ianson about Re: Ukraine <=-

It's much better than the wall the previous administration planned.

The wall isnt just about keeping people from coming across
the border, its also to stop crap like fentanyl.

Why do you think that the wall would have made any significant impact on
drugs entering the USA? The drug cartels most likely would prefer other methods where they could more safely import large volumes of drugs, e.g.
in the back of 18-wheelers, via tunnels, in cargo airplanes, and via all
sorts of methods using the sea.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 00:33:06, 07 Dec 2021
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

Only Biden could help, but that's money that can be better spent on bogus infrastructure bills.

You know that that bill is popular with everyone.

Who's everyone? Conservatives don't appreciate it. My district rep voted against it.

Even republicans who voted against the bill are mailing their
constituents and telling folks how good this will be for them.

Who did that? My district's congresswoman is one who voted against it. She has not sent me any such email.

We need more hospitals and more staff, and we need to find out where the virus originated, and whether or not there are more viruses like it sitting in a
test tube somewhere. Lead pipes can wait until we figure out how to avert the next covid.

It's much better than the wall the previous administration planned.

Do you guys allow your government to import untested undocumented migrants
into the interior of your country, for the sole purpose of strengthening the liberal party via voter re-districting? That's what's happening here.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

People find a way through, over, under or around.

Border patrol said the wall makes enforcement easier. Without having to worry about people walking across, they can focus more on seismic activity and
motion detection, reducing the demand on manpower, and making more
enforcement more effective.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

potentially cause a loss of money. Biden's all about saving money, so way there's more of it at his disposal.

Please. Tell me again. What are *you* gonna do to stop Russian bad boy Vladimir Putin from invading Ukraine?

I'll vote Republican.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

Do you guys allow your government to import untested undocumented
migrants into the interior of your country, for the sole purpose of strengthening the liberal party via voter re-districting? That's what's happening here. --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)

We do actually. Google Roxham Road. Canada and the US have an agreement where if someone in the US comes to Canada via a border crossing and they claim asylum we send them straight back to the US (and vice versa). The idea being the US is a safe country and Canada is a safe country so "escaping" from one to the other makes no sense. But...a loophole was found where if they cross illegally and then get arrested they can claim refugee status. They get to stay in the country while awaiting their court date and that takes 6 months to a year or longer. Tens of thousands (not the same volume as your southern border I know) have been crossing each year for the past, what 3 or 4 years now? The Liberal Party of Canada (who have been the party in power for since 2015) allows this loophole, even going so far as to set up buildings and staff the unofficial crossing with RCMP. They do it because these "refugees" largely vote..wait for it...Liberal!
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/10/25 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1:105/420)

Hello Aaron,

You know that that bill is popular with everyone.

Who's everyone? Conservatives don't appreciate it. My district rep
voted against it.

The American people. The build back better plan is well liked by the American people regardless of their political views including 42% of GOP voters and overall 64% of voters.

Even republicans who voted against the bill are mailing their
constituents and telling folks how good this will be for them.

Who did that? My district's congresswoman is one who voted against it.
She has not sent me any such email.

If we are talking about build back better it was not supported by a single republican.

We need more hospitals and more staff,

We just built a new hospital here in Penticton. It took years of planning and cost a small mint even for a small town hospital. If you want a new hospital go for it.

and we need to find out where the virus originated, and whether or not there are more viruses like it sitting in a test tube somewhere.

Huh!?

Lead pipes can wait until we figure out how to avert the next covid.

OK.

It's much better than the wall the previous administration
planned.

Do you guys allow your government to import untested undocumented
migrants into the interior of your country, for the sole purpose of strengthening the liberal party via voter re-districting? That's
what's happening here.

No, that doesn't happen here and I don't think that happen in the USA either.

Ttyl :-),
Al

... Itisdifficulttobeverycreativewithonlyfiftysevencharacters
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Hello Aaron,

potentially cause a loss of money. Biden's all about saving

money, so

way there's more of it at his disposal.

Please. Tell me again. What are *you* gonna do to stop Russian bad

boy

Vladimir Putin from invading Ukraine?

I'll vote Republican.

Trump wanted to reward Vladimir Putin for invading Crimea (a part
of Ukraine) by lifting all sanctions against Russia. How would doing
the same encourage Putin from invading the rest of Ukraine?

--Lee

--
Donald Trump! Go away! Racist, sexist, anti-gay!

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They do it because these "refugees" largely vote..wait for it...Liberal!

Do they have to become citizens before they can vote?


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Do you guys allow your government to import untested undocumented migrants into the interior of your country, for the sole purpose of strengthening the liberal party via voter re-districting? That's
what's happening here.

No, that doesn't happen here and I don't think that happen in the USA either.

I am not certain about the part after "for the sole purpose," but the first part is happening. A couple of governors have been complaining about the flights that have been dropping homeless migrants off into their states.


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Mike Powell wrote to DOUG MCCOMBER <=-

They do it because these "refugees" largely vote..wait for it...Liberal!

Do they have to become citizens before they can vote?

No, for some elections.

I just skimmed an article today where the Left is trying to use a loophole in the election system. There are some local things where you don't need to be citizen to vote in it. Not things like who your representatives are, but for how to spend money locally.

The Left wants to let the illegals vote in those elections - which, of course, will funnel more money into the Left's political machine, making it easier to buy elections.

Remember that the Left tends to play a long game and will keep slowly turning up the heat in the pot so that the frog gets boiled to death before he knows what's happening.


... An idea is not responsible for fools who believe in it.
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They do it because these "refugees" largely vote..wait for it...Liberal

Do they have to become citizens before they can vote?

Yes. I should have said they are expected to largely vote Liberal once they gain citizenship.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/10/25 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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Remember that the Left tends to play a long game and will keep slowly turning up the heat in the pot so that the frog gets boiled to death before he knows what's happening.

So they are the ones behind global warming!!! :O


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Mike Powell wrote to RON LAUZON <=-

Remember that the Left tends to play a long game and will keep slowly

turning

up the heat in the pot so that the frog gets boiled to death before he knows what's happening.

So they are the ones behind global warming!!! :O

Yes, they are. Jokingly and otherwise. Communist nations are the WORST for messing up the environment.

The "Global Warming" Narrative is just another ploy for total control.


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Doug McComber wrote to Mike Powell <=-

Yes. I should have said they are expected to largely vote Liberal once they gain citizenship.

The Left isn't even waiting for that. Many Left-controlled local areas are already allowing illegals to vote in their local elections.


... The Negative orgasm: "Oh no, Ohh nooo, OH NOOO !"
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Ron Lauzon wrote to Mike Powell <=-

Yes, they are. Jokingly and otherwise. Communist nations are the
WORST for messing up the environment.

I am aware that our country was in an agreement that allowed a certain communist country to continue polluting at a higher rate that others for
longer than others, while the rest of us got to feel good that we'd "cut
our emmissions" when we'd really just sent them somewhere else, along with
our manufacturing jobs.

You cannot convince others that is how it works.


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On 06 Dec 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...

Only Biden could help, but that's money that can be better spent bogus infrastructure bills.

You know that that bill is popular with everyone.

Who's everyone? Conservatives don't appreciate it. My district rep voted against it.

Even republicans who voted against the bill are mailing their constituents and telling folks how good this will be for them.

Who did that? My district's congresswoman is one who voted against it.
She has not sent me any such email.

Same here in Upstate New York, I have not received any such mailing either.

We need more hospitals and more staff, and we need to find out where the virus originated, and whether or not there are more viruses like it sitting in a test tube somewhere. Lead pipes can wait until we figure
out how to avert the next covid.

Don't we already know where this came from at this point, why try to deny
what the facts show, to do so would be providing an excuse and would be foolish, severe punishment should be dealt to those responsible, for the senseless murders around the globe.

Acting like it is not known or claiming that one does have any idea, does nothing to being solution based.
Stupidity is allowed to grow and consume us all, often leading to much larger more complicated problems which then leads itself to a catastrophic failure.

I have a theory why this evil known as Covid-19 was unleashed upon the
world.
Using the result of the election as a base.
Donald Trump is the only President within my lifetime that has significantly has held China and possibly other countries responsible from ripping off the United States against unfair trade deals and serious lopsided trade deficits, while crooked politicians lined their own pockets making them vastly wealthy, setting the stage for U.S.A. to be raped and pillaged.

I firmly believe if covid-19 never existed, Donald Trump would of been re-elected in 2021.

Biden has failed in many ways, and his promises made as a candidate are now meaningless words, history shows us what was spoken and his in-action has proven that those promises have never have to this date been delivered as promised.
Therefore he should be removed and forcibly so, before this shit-stain of a President or his ghetto driven VP does more damage.

Do you guys allow your government to import untested undocumented
migrants into the interior of your country, for the sole purpose of strengthening the liberal party via voter re-districting? That's what's happening here.

Agreed, Instead of providing a passive approach.
Revolt is needed to show that this type of thing will no longer be tolerated ever in the future.

. ______ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿
_[]_³³Äij³ ³ Fidonet ³ ³FSX Net³ ³ T R U M P ³ ³ Another Message ³
{ NET 267 ³ ³1:267/150³ ³21:1/127³ ³ 2 0 2 4 ³ ³ by Gregory ³
/ 00ÄÄÄÄ00'-¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄÄ00ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ00ÄÄÄÙ

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Capital Station BBS * telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)

crossing each year for the past, what 3 or 4 years now? The Liberal
Party of Canada (who have been the party in power for since 2015) allows this loophole, even going so far as to set up buildings and staff the unofficial crossing with RCMP. They do it because these "refugees"

Thanks for this tip. There may come a day when I pack a backpack and take a swim across the St Lawrence, and never come back. If Biden's regime destroys this country as badly as I think they will, then I will come for all the right reasons.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

The American people. The build back better plan is well liked by the American people regardless of their political views including 42% of GOP voters and overall 64% of voters.

It's a robbery. None of the peasants (myself included) asked for any of this fake infrastructure. My city wants a flood wall, but the Democrats enjoy the flood culture in our city too much to say goodbye to it for good. It's kinda like covid but less deadly, and it's great for local businesses (who are located far away from the rivers.)

If we are talking about build back better it was not supported by a
single republican.

Republicans in the House of Representatives voted against it, but the bill
will advance to the US Senate, where fake Republicans are expected to embrace it.

We need more hospitals and more staff,

We just built a new hospital here in Penticton. It took years of
planning and cost a small mint even for a small town hospital. If you
want a new hospital go for it.

The hospitals we have are packed full of covid patients (so says the local media) and are short-staffed. But at least they won't be packed full of lead-poisoning victims, thanks to Joe's big waste. Joe says we should "expect less," so I guess we're all still getting used to this conversion to socialism.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

Vladimir Putin from invading Ukraine?

I'll vote Republican.

Trump wanted to reward Vladimir Putin for invading Crimea (a part
of Ukraine) by lifting all sanctions against Russia. How would doing
the same encourage Putin from invading the rest of Ukraine?

Sanctions against Russia are not effective. They don't care if the USA refuses to buy any more babushka dolls.

The best thing we can do now is keep on buying as much Russian oil as
possible, so that way we can completely finance any battle costs the Russians incur while they're out there annexing our friends' countries.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

I am not certain about the part after "for the sole purpose," but the first part is happening. A couple of governors have been complaining about the flights that have been dropping homeless migrants off into
their states.

Some governors LOVE the 'illegal dumping' and are totally fine with it. (Like NY gov Kathy Hochul.)

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

Yes. I should have said they are expected to largely vote Liberal onc they gain citizenship.

The Left isn't even waiting for that. Many Left-controlled local areas are already allowing illegals to vote in their local elections.

NYC is allowing non-citizens to vote in local elections, supposedly not allowing them to vote in state or national elections. But how could that be?

"Hi, I'm an illegal immigrant and I'm here to vote. May I please have a specially-designated ballot for local elections only?" (This really happens in someone's weird fantasy.)

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

Hello Aaron,

Vladimir Putin from invading Ukraine?

I'll vote Republican.

Trump wanted to reward Vladimir Putin for invading Crimea (a part
of Ukraine) by lifting all sanctions against Russia. How would doing
the same encourage Putin from invading the rest of Ukraine?

Sanctions against Russia are not effective.

The Russian economy is not faring well. There is a reason why.

They don't care if the USA refuses to buy any more babushka dolls.

The Russian ruble is worth less and less these days, due to its
own faltering economy. That is what happens when a Russian president
is not wise, putting more and more rubles into military spending and
nuclear bombs.

The best thing we can do now is keep on buying as much Russian oil as possible, so that way we can completely finance any battle costs the Russians incur while they're out there annexing our friends' countries.

Nikita Kruschev once said he would sell us the rope to hang ourselves
with. I am sure Vladimir Putin would be happy to do the same.

--Lee

--
There's no split in Cremo.

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
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On 09 Dec 2021, Doug McComber said the following...

They do it because these "refugees" largely vote..wait for it...Li

Do they have to become citizens before they can vote?

Yes. I should have said they are expected to largely vote Liberal once they gain citizenship.

The same thing was said about other past undesirables, such as the Jews and
the Irish. It's known as "Replacement Theory," it's racist, and it has never come to pass in the way that believers in it thought it would.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

The same thing was said about other past undesirables, such as the Jews and the Irish. It's known as "Replacement Theory," it's racist, and it
has never come to pass in the way that believers in it thought it would.

This is Canada, nobody cares about race here. The fact is Canada, politically, has become very much an urban vs rural divide and statistically immigrants (illegal, legal or refugees) settle in the bigger cities, Toronto followed by Montreal then Vancouver.

What I stated is simple statistics and not "replacement theory". Canadians don't care about their neighbours religion, ethnicity or race.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/10/25 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1:105/420)

On 15 Dec 2021, Doug McComber said the following...

This is Canada, nobody cares about race here. The fact is Canada, politically, has become very much an urban vs rural divide and statistically immigrants (illegal, legal or refugees) settle in the
bigger cities, Toronto followed by Montreal then Vancouver.

Then why are you so sure that "illegal immigrants" will vote for Liberals?

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 15 Dec 2021, Doug McComber said the following...

This is Canada, nobody cares about race here. The fact is Canada, politically, has become very much an urban vs rural divide and statistically immigrants (illegal, legal or refugees) settle in the
bigger cities, Toronto followed by Montreal then Vancouver.

I mean, the statistic is one thing, but what's the reason behind the
statistic? Is the relationship between living in a city and voting liberal
one of correlation, or is it causation? And if it's causation, does
city-living promote a liberal worldview or does a liberal worldview promote city-living?

If you can't prove causation, then it's at best a correlation with possibly some third factor tying them together. If so, what's that third factor, and
how does it affect immigrants?

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

They do it because these "refugees" largely vote..wait for it...Li >DM> MP> Do they have to become citizens before they can vote?

Yes. I should have said they are expected to largely vote Liberal once >DM> they gain citizenship.

The same thing was said about other past undesirables, such as the Jews and the Irish. It's known as "Replacement Theory," it's racist, and it has never come to pass in the way that believers in it thought it would.

He insinuated that *the government* expects it, not that it is true or that
he expects it.

You seem to think the government isn't stupid and also has our best
interests at heart. I would not be at all surprised if they (the Democrats
in charge) believe in that "racist" theory and believe it will work. Why
else would they be flying people from the border into "red" states like Florida, no where near the border? Why not Northern California or Portland
or Seattle?

Many people in the US believe that the idea of allowing illegal immigrants
from our southern borders to stay will eventually backfire. While most of
them might be greatful for the stay, they are conservative about certain
things that the Democratic Party is making it a point lately to embrace, like multiple genders, abortion, same-sex marriage, etc.

Unless they luck out and all of the border crossers somehow turn out to be
avid socialists who are willing to put up with the rest of it, I suspect it could very well backfire on them. And that is what they will get for being "racists."


* SLMR 2.1a * A penny saved is a Congressional oversight.
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What I stated is simple statistics and not "replacement theory". Canadians don
care about their neighbours religion, ethnicity or race.

Most Americans don't care either. The ones who do are either dumb-dumbs who sometimes run around in hoods or wear nazi gear, and the Democrats who like
to point those dumb-dumbs out like they are the majority of white Americans.

Those same Democrats will often throw hissy-fits if you point out that at
least two of their congresspeople say things that could be taken as anti-semetic. Ooops.


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On 15 Dec 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

The same thing was said about other past undesirables, such as the Jews the Irish. It's known as "Replacement Theory," it's racist, and it has n come to pass in the way that believers in it thought it would.

He insinuated that *the government* expects it, not that it is true or that he expects it.

The government is made of people.

You seem to think the government isn't stupid and also has our best interests at heart. I would not be at all surprised if they (the Democrats in charge) believe in that "racist" theory and believe it will work. Why else would they be flying people from the border into "red" states like Florida, no where near the border? Why not Northern California or Portland or Seattle?

It's not a racist theory if the Democrats believe in it, because they're not fearmongering about other races overshadowing conservative white power in the future.

Many people in the US believe that the idea of allowing illegal
immigrants from our southern borders to stay will eventually backfire.

It can only "backfire" if the intention was there in the first place. Otherwise, all it would be is a failed conservative prediction.

While most of them might be greatful for the stay, they are conservative about certain things that the Democratic Party is making it a point
lately to embrace, like multiple genders, abortion, same-sex marriage, etc.

Then why are conservatives saying afraid of being overtaken politically by people of color?

You don't see this fearmongering about white European illegal aliens, who do exist. The top source of illegal immigration is overstayed visas.

Unless they luck out and all of the border crossers somehow turn out to
be avid socialists who are willing to put up with the rest of it, I suspect it could very well backfire on them. And that is what they will get for being "racists."

So you admit that the fearmongering is for naught. Interesting.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 15 Dec 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

The same thing was said about other past undesirables, such as the Jews the Irish. It's known as "Replacement Theory," it's racist, and it has n come to pass in the way that believers in it thought it would.

You seem to think the government isn't stupid and also has our best interests at heart. I would not be at all surprised if they (the Democrats in charge) believe in that "racist" theory and believe it will work. Why else would they be flying people from the border into "red" states like Florida, no where near the border? Why not Northern California or Portland or Seattle?

Is it possible that the reason immigrants prefer urban living and voting liberal is because the Democrats are the one political party of the Big Two that isn't openly hostile to them, to include spreading the lie that
Democrats are "bringing" them here to increase liberal votes?

Could it be that the whole phenomenon of immigrants tending to vote liberal
is just a right-wing-manufactured, self-fulfilling prophecy?

Isn't it kind of disengenuous to blame someone to whom you're openly hostile, to whom you openly express the opinion that they should not be here, for
voting for the other guy?

Perhaps you should not be trying to tell liberals what they're doing and why they're doing it, and focus on your own actions and those of your ideological brethren.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 15 Dec 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

You seem to think the government isn't stupid and also has our best interests at heart. I would not be at all surprised if they (the Democrats in charge) believe in that "racist" theory and believe it will work. Why else would they be flying people from the border into "red" states like Florida, no where near the border? Why not Northern California or Portland or Seattle?

They are moving asylum seekers into California, Portland, and Seattle; the
blue states just don't make a big deal of it.

http://refugeesnw.org
http://worldrelief.org/seattle/ https://www.seattlemet.com/news-and-city-life/2021/11/how-to-help-refugees-comi ng-to-seattle-washington-from-afghanistan
http://www.pdxrsg.org
https://lcsnw.org/program/refugee-resettlement-program/ https://www.portland.gov/civic/immigrants

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 15 Dec 2021, Jeff Thiele said the following...

On 15 Dec 2021, Doug McComber said the following...

This is Canada, nobody cares about race here. The fact is Canada, politically, has become very much an urban vs rural divide and statistically immigrants (illegal, legal or refugees) settle in the bigger cities, Toronto followed by Montreal then Vancouver.

Then why are you so sure that "illegal immigrants" will vote for
Liberals?

It is obvious as to why they would vote for liberals, because it was liberals which made it possible for a better quality of life.
Liberals or these illegal immigrants do not care about a National Sovereignty that they are violating.

. ______ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿
_[]_³³Äij³ ³ Fidonet ³ ³FSX Net³ ³ T R U M P ³ ³ Another Message ³
{ NET 267 ³ ³1:267/150³ ³21:1/127³ ³ 2 0 2 4 ³ ³ by Gregory ³
/ 00ÄÄÄÄ00'-¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄÄ00ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ00ÄÄÄÙ

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Capital Station BBS * telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)

On 16 Dec 2021, Gregory Deyss said the following...

It is obvious as to why they would vote for liberals, because it was liberals which made it possible for a better quality of life.
Liberals or these illegal immigrants do not care about a National Sovereignty that they are violating.

Actual "illegal immigrants" are unlikely to become US citizens, and are thus unlikely to vote. Refugees who adhere to US asylum laws are likely to become citizens, but in adhering to the law they are not "illegal immigrants."

Conservatives don't want foreigners of certain nationalities coming into this country, regardless of whether they do so illegally or not, and are more than willing to ignore this fundamental difference between the two groups.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 16 Dec 2021, Gregory Deyss said the following...

It is obvious as to why they would vote for liberals, because it was liberals which made it possible for a better quality of life.
Liberals or these illegal immigrants do not care about a National Sovereignty that they are violating.

By the way, wasn't it the great conservative icon Ronald Reagan who signed a bill making 3 million "illegal immigrants" eligible for amnesty back in 1986?

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

This is Canada, nobody cares about race here. The fact is Canada, politically, has become very much an urban vs rural divide and statistically immigrants (illegal, legal or refugees) settle in the bigger cities, Toronto followed by Montreal then Vancouver.

Then why are you so sure that "illegal immigrants" will vote for
Liberals?

Because statistics tells us they will settle in the big cities and statistics tells us the big cities vote Liberal. Also they (the "illegal crossers" as the press calls them) know it is the Liberal Party of Canada who is allowing this illegal crossing "loophole" to continue, whereas the opposition party has called for its closure. People tend not to bite the hand that feeds them (quite literally feeds them in this case).

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/10/25 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1:105/420)

I mean, the statistic is one thing, but what's the reason behind the statistic? Is the relationship between living in a city and voting
liberal one of correlation, or is it causation? And if it's causation, does city-living promote a liberal worldview or does a liberal worldview promote city-living?

If you can't prove causation, then it's at best a correlation with possibly some third factor tying them together. If so, what's that third factor, and how does it affect immigrants?

Well, that's just an "if you can't prove it then it doesn't count" argument, which may be valid for science, but we're talking politics and yes, it is my opinion as stated.

The deep dive into the reasons (I can speculate, but clearly you don't want me to) is irrelevant if the statistics bear out the statement (and they do).

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/10/25 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1:105/420)

On 16 Dec 2021, Doug McComber said the following...

This is Canada, nobody cares about race here. The fact is Canad politically, has become very much an urban vs rural divide and statistically immigrants (illegal, legal or refugees) settle in bigger cities, Toronto followed by Montreal then Vancouver.

Then why are you so sure that "illegal immigrants" will vote for Liberals?

Because statistics tells us they will settle in the big cities and statistics tells us the big cities vote Liberal. Also they (the
"illegal crossers" as the press calls them) know it is the Liberal Party of Canada who is allowing this illegal crossing "loophole" to continue, whereas the opposition party has called for its closure. People tend not to bite the hand that feeds them (quite literally feeds them in this case).

If the "loophole" (which I suspect is asylum) is legal, then the crossings aren't illegal. That you wish it were illegal does not make it so. Calling
them "illegal" does not make them so; it's only an excuse to bash immigrants.

Is it possible that they naturally gravitate towards those who are less
hostile towards their legal presence in the country, and away from those who are more hostile toward their presence? Who wouldn't?

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 16 Dec 2021, Doug McComber said the following...

I mean, the statistic is one thing, but what's the reason behind the statistic? Is the relationship between living in a city and voting liberal one of correlation, or is it causation? And if it's causation does city-living promote a liberal worldview or does a liberal worldv promote city-living?
If you can't prove causation, then it's at best a correlation with possibly some third factor tying them together. If so, what's that th factor, and how does it affect immigrants?

Well, that's just an "if you can't prove it then it doesn't count" argument, which may be valid for science, but we're talking politics and yes, it is my opinion as stated.

But you have no evidence to support it over any other explanation, which
makes it a belief of convenience.

The deep dive into the reasons (I can speculate, but clearly you don't want me to) is irrelevant if the statistics bear out the statement (and they do).

Not really. If immigrants prefer associating with people who are welcoming to them, and not with people who are openly hostile toward their legal presence, then that is as much if not more the fault of conservatives. Stop trying to blame the consequences of your actions on your political opponents.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

The same thing was said about other past undesirables, such as the Jews
the Irish. It's known as "Replacement Theory," it's racist, and it has come to pass in the way that believers in it thought it would.

He insinuated that *the government* expects it, not that it is true or that he expects it.

The government is made of people.

Wel, duh, who said it was not. The majority of those in the government currently who are elected are... ???

You seem to think the government isn't stupid and also has our best interests at heart. I would not be at all surprised if they (the Democrats in charge) believe in that "racist" theory and believe it will work. Why else would they be flying people from the border into "red" states like Florida, no where near the border? Why not Northern California or Portland or Seattle?

It's not a racist theory if the Democrats believe in it, because they're not fearmongering about other races overshadowing conservative white power in the future.

It is if they are doing it because they believe it works. It is if they
are doing it because they take for granted that "immigrants of color" will always vote a certain way.

Many people in the US believe that the idea of allowing illegal immigrants from our southern borders to stay will eventually backfire.

It can only "backfire" if the intention was there in the first place. Otherwise, all it would be is a failed conservative prediction.

I believe they have some intention, see above re: "why else would they be flying people... into 'red' states?"

While most of them might be greatful for the stay, they are conservative about certain things that the Democratic Party is making it a point lately to embrace, like multiple genders, abortion, same-sex marriage, etc.

Then why are conservatives saying afraid of being overtaken politically by people of color?

You don't see this fearmongering about white European illegal aliens, who do exist. The top source of illegal immigration is overstayed visas.

Probably because it is not in the news. I believe our policy should be the same no matter where the illegal aliens are from. We should be enforcing
the laws, deporting them all, and stopping them at any border crossings.

Unless they luck out and all of the border crossers somehow turn out to be avid socialists who are willing to put up with the rest of it, I suspect it could very well backfire on them. And that is what they will get for being "racists."

So you admit that the fearmongering is for naught. Interesting.

I admit that it could be, yes, but that still doesn't make me happy that we
are not enforcing our laws because, you know, feelings.


* SLMR 2.1a * Save the whales.... Collect the entire set!
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

The same thing was said about other past undesirables, such as the Jews
the Irish. It's known as "Replacement Theory," it's racist, and it has come to pass in the way that believers in it thought it would.

You seem to think the government isn't stupid and also has our best interests at heart. I would not be at all surprised if they (the Democrats in charge) believe in that "racist" theory and believe it will work. Why else would they be flying people from the border into "red" states like Florida, no where near the border? Why not Northern California or Portland or Seattle?

Is it possible that the reason immigrants prefer urban living and voting liberal is because the Democrats are the one political party of the Big Two that isn't openly hostile to them, to include spreading the lie that Democrats are "bringing" them here to increase liberal votes?

If they prefer urban living, then why are they being moved into non-urban areas? If they prefer urban living, where the Democrats are in charge,
should the current government be sending them places like North Florida?

Could it be that the whole phenomenon of immigrants tending to vote liberal is just a right-wing-manufactured, self-fulfilling prophecy?

I have covered that already, and you have responded.


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Not really. If immigrants prefer associating with people who are welcoming to them, and not with people who are openly hostile toward their legal presence, then that is as much if not more the fault of conservatives. Stop trying to blame the consequences of your actions on your political opponents.

Probably a lot less "people who are welcoming to them" and a lot more "Democrats and leftists who are willing to give them free things in order to buy favor." Don't BS us and try to pass off the actions of politicians as being charitable.

In reality, urban areas are more likely to have mass transit, have more
jobs available, and be closer to public services than rural areas. That is
why a lot of people are drawn to them.


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On 16 Dec 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

He insinuated that *the government* expects it, not that it is true that he expects it.

The government is made of people.

Wel, duh, who said it was not. The majority of those in the government currently who are elected are... ???

As such, people expect it. As for the majority, it's pretty close to 50/50
on the national level. Given that conservatives elect more than their fair share of representation due to the Senate's bias toward low-population states which tend to be conservative, elections at the state and local levels might
be more liberal, but I doubt it because urban centers tend to elect fewer people per capita than rural areas. For example, a town of 400 and a city of
4 million both elect one mayor each.

It's not a racist theory if the Democrats believe in it, because they're fearmongering about other races overshadowing conservative white power i future.

It is if they are doing it because they believe it works. It is if they are doing it because they take for granted that "immigrants of color"
will always vote a certain way.

Those are big *if*s, and entirely without evidence. The vast majority of "illegal" immigrants that conservatives have a problem with are not "illegal" at all; they're refugees seeking asylum according to US law.

Many people in the US believe that the idea of allowing illegal immigrants from our southern borders to stay will eventually backfi

It can only "backfire" if the intention was there in the first place. Otherwise, all it would be is a failed conservative prediction.

I believe they have some intention, see above re: "why else would they be flying people... into 'red' states?"

They're flying *legal* refugees into both red and blue states. They're not flying people who are in the country illegally anywhere except out.

While most of them might be greatful for the stay, they are conserv about certain things that the Democratic Party is making it a point lately to embrace, like multiple genders, abortion, same-sex marria etc.

Then why are conservatives saying afraid of being overtaken politically people of color?
You don't see this fearmongering about white European illegal aliens, wh exist. The top source of illegal immigration is overstayed visas.

Probably because it is not in the news. I believe our policy should be the same no matter where the illegal aliens are from. We should be enforcing the laws, deporting them all, and stopping them at any border crossings.

I agree. However, I believe that you're intending to apply this policy to
legal immigrants as well, specifically refugees seeking asylum.

Unless they luck out and all of the border crossers somehow turn ou be avid socialists who are willing to put up with the rest of it, I suspect it could very well backfire on them. And that is what they get for being "racists."

So you admit that the fearmongering is for naught. Interesting.

I admit that it could be, yes, but that still doesn't make me happy that we are not enforcing our laws because, you know, feelings.

We are enforcing our laws. People get deported every day.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 16 Dec 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

Is it possible that the reason immigrants prefer urban living and voting liberal is because the Democrats are the one political party of the Big that isn't openly hostile to them, to include spreading the lie that Democrats are "bringing" them here to increase liberal votes?

If they prefer urban living, then why are they being moved into non-urban areas? If they prefer urban living, where the Democrats are in charge, should the current government be sending them places like North Florida?

Perhaps they're not being given a choice of where they're moved to.

Could it be that the whole phenomenon of immigrants tending to vote libe is just a right-wing-manufactured, self-fulfilling prophecy?

I have covered that already, and you have responded.

Not really. You responded to it being a hoax. But what if it's real, and
caused by immigrants' response to conservatives' attitude towards them?

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 16 Dec 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

Not really. If immigrants prefer associating with people who are welcomi them, and not with people who are openly hostile toward their legal pres then that is as much if not more the fault of conservatives. Stop trying blame the consequences of your actions on your political opponents.

Probably a lot less "people who are welcoming to them" and a lot more "Democrats and leftists who are willing to give them free things in
order to buy favor." Don't BS us and try to pass off the actions of politicians as being charitable.

It's US immigration law. Refugees seeking asylum are legal immigrants. If
they don't like conservatives because conservatives don't think they should
be here, whose fault is that?

In reality, urban areas are more likely to have mass transit, have more jobs available, and be closer to public services than rural areas. That is why a lot of people are drawn to them.

Some are, some aren't. Undocumented immigrants looking for work in the hospitality and construction trades probably are, while undocumented
immigrants looking for agricultural work probably are not.

Legal immigrants may be likely to go to places where they feel less
threatened by anti-immigrant sentiments.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 16 Dec 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

Not really. If immigrants prefer associating with people who are welcomi them, and not with people who are openly hostile toward their legal pres then that is as much if not more the fault of conservatives. Stop trying blame the consequences of your actions on your political opponents.

Probably a lot less "people who are welcoming to them" and a lot more "Democrats and leftists who are willing to give them free things in
order to buy favor." Don't BS us and try to pass off the actions of politicians as being charitable.

It's not necessarily the politicians, except as a reflection of those who elected them.

I would imagine that the same is true of gays, Muslims, atheists, and anyone else whose "lifestyle" is frowned upon by conservatives. They're going to
tend to live where there is the least hostility towards them.

It's conservatives' own bigotry that's turning people against them, not the Democrats.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

If the "loophole" (which I suspect is asylum) is legal, then the
crossings aren't illegal. That you wish it were illegal does not make it so. Calling them "illegal" does not make them so; it's only an excuse to bash immigrants.

Jeff, I know you don't much Canadian news in the US, but they are indeed illegal crossings. They get arrested and charged upon crossing and then are given a court date (usually 6 months to a year out) and are released. This is common knowledge as it was widely covered by Canadian media (all of it) when it first started happening a few years ago.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/10/25 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1:105/420)

Not really. If immigrants prefer associating with people who are
welcoming to them, and not with people who are openly hostile toward
their legal presence, then that is as much if not more the fault of conservatives. Stop trying to blame the consequences of your actions on your political opponents.

Again your unfamiliarity with Canada is on display here. Your assumption quoted above is not what is at play. In fact rural areas want immigrants and lament the fact that most just settle in the big three cities. You're just trying to make hay where there is none.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/10/25 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1:105/420)

On 17 Dec 2021, Doug McComber said the following...

If the "loophole" (which I suspect is asylum) is legal, then the crossings aren't illegal. That you wish it were illegal does not make so. Calling them "illegal" does not make them so; it's only an excuse bash immigrants.

Jeff, I know you don't much Canadian news in the US, but they are indeed illegal crossings. They get arrested and charged upon crossing and then are given a court date (usually 6 months to a year out) and are
released. This is common knowledge as it was widely covered by Canadian media (all of it) when it first started happening a few years ago.

Then what's the "loophole?"

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 17 Dec 2021, Doug McComber said the following...

Not really. If immigrants prefer associating with people who are welcoming to them, and not with people who are openly hostile toward their legal presence, then that is as much if not more the fault of conservatives. Stop trying to blame the consequences of your actions your political opponents.

Again your unfamiliarity with Canada is on display here. Your assumption quoted above is not what is at play. In fact rural areas want immigrants and lament the fact that most just settle in the big three cities.
You're just trying to make hay where there is none.

So let me get this straight...

You've said that:
1. Canadian cities tend to vote liberal;
2. Immigrants, both legal and illegal, tend to settle in cities;
3. The Liberal Party of Canada supports the "loophole;" and
4. The opposition party opposes the "loophole."

I am assuming from point #1 that rural areas in Canada tend to vote conservative (or "opposition"), similar to the political distribution in the US.

What exactly is the nature of the "loophole?" Could opposition to the "loophole" be seen as hostility towards immigrants? At the very least, opposition to the "loophole" is indicative of a belief that not all of the immigrants who are present should be, and some percentage of immigrants could view the expression of that belief as hostility.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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On 16 Dec 2021, Jeff Thiele said the following...

On 16 Dec 2021, Gregory Deyss said the following...

It is obvious as to why they would vote for liberals, because it was liberals which made it possible for a better quality of life. Liberals or these illegal immigrants do not care about a National Sovereignty that they are violating.

Actual "illegal immigrants" are unlikely to become US citizens, and are thus unlikely to vote. Refugees who adhere to US asylum laws are likely
to become citizens, but in adhering to the law they are not "illegal immigrants."

Sure the ones are deemed a residents and or one that has a alien registration Those folks could be become fully fledged American citizens.
There is no such issue or problem, that I can see.

Conservatives don't want foreigners of certain nationalities coming into this country, regardless of whether they do so illegally or not, and are more than willing to ignore this fundamental difference between the two groups.

You're incorrect, why because of what is inside your mind is only your opinion of what you think of Conservatives.
Just because you think this, does not make it so.
I consider myself to a Conservative and I am not of the mind that thinks to himself, nor do I share with others about the hate that you speak of.
If someone happens to be on the outside of the U.S.A. and wants to come to the U.S.A. they should do so legally then that would be totally fine.
It would be more then fine actually, they should welcomed appreciated and even celebrated.

On the paternal side of things; the men in my family were German-Dutch and on the maternal side of things; my mom was Polish. They were both U.S. citizens as they were born here in the U.S. Same is true with my grandparents.
My great grandparents were the ones who were foreign born and came to the U.S. as legal immigrants through immigration, they did not lurk or sneak into the ship that brought them to the U.S. and that is the difference between
something that should be celebrated vs condemned.

. ______ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿
_[]_³³Äij³ ³ Fidonet ³ ³FSX Net³ ³ T R U M P ³ ³ Another Message ³
{ NET 267 ³ ³1:267/150³ ³21:1/127³ ³ 2 0 2 4 ³ ³ by Gregory ³
/ 00ÄÄÄÄ00'-¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄÄ00ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ00ÄÄÄÙ

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On 17 Dec 2021, Gregory Deyss said the following...

It is obvious as to why they would vote for liberals, because it liberals which made it possible for a better quality of life. Liberals or these illegal immigrants do not care about a Nationa Sovereignty that they are violating.

Actual "illegal immigrants" are unlikely to become US citizens, and a thus unlikely to vote. Refugees who adhere to US asylum laws are like to become citizens, but in adhering to the law they are not "illegal immigrants."

Sure the ones are deemed a residents and or one that has a alien registration Those folks could be become fully fledged American
citizens. There is no such issue or problem, that I can see.

Or refugees granted asylum, or awaiting an asylum decision.

Conservatives don't want foreigners of certain nationalities coming i this country, regardless of whether they do so illegally or not, and more than willing to ignore this fundamental difference between the t groups.

You're incorrect, why because of what is inside your mind is only your opinion of what you think of Conservatives.
Just because you think this, does not make it so.
I consider myself to a Conservative and I am not of the mind that thinks to himself, nor do I share with others about the hate that you speak of. If someone happens to be on the outside of the U.S.A. and wants to come
to the U.S.A. they should do so legally then that would be totally fine. It would be more then fine actually, they should welcomed appreciated
and even celebrated.

Then why do you oppose allowing Central American refugees seeking asylum into the country?

On the paternal side of things; the men in my family were German-Dutch
and on the maternal side of things; my mom was Polish. They were both
U.S. citizens as they were born here in the U.S. Same is true with my grandparents. My great grandparents were the ones who were foreign born and came to the U.S. as legal immigrants through immigration, they did
not lurk or sneak into the ship that brought them to the U.S. and that
is the difference between something that should be celebrated vs condemned.

Then why do you oppose allowing Central American refugees seeking asylum into the country?

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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Jeff, I know you don't much Canadian news in the US, but they are indeed illeg
crossings. They get arrested and charged upon crossing and then are given a urt date (usually 6 months to a year out) and are released. This is common kno
edge as it was widely covered by Canadian media (all of it) when it first star
d happening a few years ago.

Same loophole, and government action, that we have here in the US. They
can cross at any "illegal" entry point (because, technically, they have to
come in at an official entry point, making all other crossings illegal) and
all they have to do when caught is claim "asylum" and they are loop-holed.


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Again your unfamiliarity with Canada is on display here. Your assumption quote
above is not what is at play. In fact rural areas want immigrants and lament t
fact that most just settle in the big three cities. You're just trying to mak
hay where there is none.

He is good at that.


* SLMR 2.1a * No Purchase Required. Details in package.
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Then why do you oppose allowing Central American refugees seeking asylum into the country?

Because many of us don't believe you have a valid asylum claim just because
you can pronounce "asylum." I personally question why these folks who supposedly need "asylum" are not stopping in the first country they come to that can grant it (Mexico). If they are really in danger, why would they
put themselves into more danger by treking across another country that is
just as capable of granting them asylum?

I am sure it couldn't be that they are not really seeking asylum, but are really coming all the way here because of some promises that have been made
to them by Americans who think similar to yourself... "claim 'asylum' and
they have to let you in..."


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On 17 Dec 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

Then why do you oppose allowing Central American refugees seeking asylum the country?

Because many of us don't believe you have a valid asylum claim just because you can pronounce "asylum." I personally question why these
folks who supposedly need "asylum" are not stopping in the first country they come to that can grant it (Mexico). If they are really in danger, why would they put themselves into more danger by treking across another country that is just as capable of granting them asylum?

As long as they are following the law, which they are, they are not "illegal."

I am sure it couldn't be that they are not really seeking asylum, but are really coming all the way here because of some promises that have been made to them by Americans who think similar to yourself... "claim
'asylum' and they have to let you in..."

Initially, yes. But it's not the say-one-word-and-you're-golden situation
that you portray it as. There are initial interviews that weed out the
obvious frauds, and a process for the others to follow. They are not granted citizenship, they cannot vote, they cannot work for around 6 months, and they are not eligible for welfare or other "free stuff."

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 17 Dec 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

Jeff, I know you don't much Canadian news in the US, but they are indeed illeg
crossings. They get arrested and charged upon crossing and then are gi urt date (usually 6 months to a year out) and are released. This is comm kno
edge as it was widely covered by Canadian media (all of it) when it firs star
d happening a few years ago.

Same loophole, and government action, that we have here in the US. They can cross at any "illegal" entry point (because, technically, they have
to come in at an official entry point, making all other crossings
illegal) and all they have to do when caught is claim "asylum" and they are loop-holed.

So the "loophole" is that refugees requesting asylum are not "illegal."

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 17 Dec 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

Again your unfamiliarity with Canada is on display here. Your assumption quote
above is not what is at play. In fact rural areas want immigrants and la t
fact that most just settle in the big three cities. You're just trying mak
hay where there is none.

He is good at that.

I am good at finding hay where conservatives insist that there is none.

Why do residents of rural areas want immigrants to live there? Why do they
want immigrants rather than other Canadians? Is it because they yearn for
their rural environs to become more culturally diverse? Somehow I doubt that. No, I smell a need for cheap unskilled labor.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 17 Dec 2021, Doug McComber said the following...

Not really. If immigrants prefer associating with people who are welcoming to them, and not with people who are openly hostile toward their legal presence, then that is as much if not more the fault of conservatives. Stop trying to blame the consequences of your actions your political opponents.

Again your unfamiliarity with Canada is on display here. Your assumption quoted above is not what is at play. In fact rural areas want immigrants and lament the fact that most just settle in the big three cities.
You're just trying to make hay where there is none.

Another factor could be that large cities are homes to charitable
organizations who help refugees with the resources they need to get along in their new home country. This is rarely direct cash disbursements, but other forms of assistance such as finding a place to live. At least in the US, such assistance is not as readily available in rural areas; I assume the same is true in Canada? Why do you suppose that is? If the citizens of rural areas
are so keen to attract immigrants to be their neighbors, why is such
assistance not offered?

It could be, too, that the government takes this into account when placing refugees. Acceptance in and the assistance of their neighbors is certain to make a difference in a refugee's success in their new country.

If rural communities are so eager to attract immigrants, why are they not
doing more to attract them?

Truth be told, only the refugees themselves know why they are choosing to
live where they do. Perhaps someone should ask them.

Just a thought,
Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 17 Dec 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

Same loophole, and government action, that we have here in the US. They can cross at any "illegal" entry point (because, technically, they have
to come in at an official entry point, making all other crossings
illegal) and all they have to do when caught is claim "asylum" and they are loop-holed.

Actually, nope, this is another lie.

In order to request asylum, refugees must be in the US *or* at an official
port (not point) of entry. The difference is that they do not need to be on
US soil if requesting asylum at an official port of entry, as they would
likely have been stopped for questioning before setting foot on US soil.

People who have crossed the border at any location are in the US and qualify for the first case.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

Then what's the "loophole?"

When someone comes into Canada via the US at a regular border crossing and they claim refugee status they are immediately refused entry. The same in reverse if someone coming from Canada enters the US at a border crossing. No hearing, just "return to sender".

So people discovered if they crossing illegally (i.e. not at a border crossing) instead of being immediately returned to the US they would instead get arrested for crossing illegally and be allowed to stay in the country until their court date. At court they claim refugee status. I don't know what the rate is now, but last year it was about 50% that get to stay and the rest deported.

The issue many people have is this goes against the spirit of the agreement between our two countries. The Liberal government encourages this. There is one main crossing point at Roxham Road and the government has made it a permanent crossing with buildings and police who literally carry bags for illegal crossers before they arrest them.

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You've said that:
1. Canadian cities tend to vote liberal;
2. Immigrants, both legal and illegal, tend to settle in cities;
3. The Liberal Party of Canada supports the "loophole;" and
4. The opposition party opposes the "loophole."

I am assuming from point #1 that rural areas in Canada tend to vote conservative (or "opposition"), similar to the political distribution in the US.

No not quite. Depends on the region. But Canada doesn't have anything like the electoral college system in the US. I think it is pretty universally recognized that without the electoral college system US presidential elections would be decided by New York, LA, Chicago etc. So our elections are heavily decided by Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver (somewhat). There are other smaller urban areas that vote Conservative or NDP (left of the Liberals). But they don't decide elections like Toronto does. Some rural areas will vote Liberal but the majority vote Conservative (a little bit NDP). But without a system like the electoral college, these rural areas just don't have the seat count to "win".

What exactly is the nature of the "loophole?" Could opposition to the "loophole" be seen as hostility towards immigrants? At the very least, opposition to the "loophole" is indicative of a belief that not all of
the immigrants who are present should be, and some percentage of immigrants could view the expression of that belief as hostility.

Explained in the previous reply. But the last survey I saw (for a left of centre newspaper) showed ~70% of the population (all political stripes) wanted the loophole closed. The big issue with this loophole for most Canadians is that it is seen as queue jumping. Immigrants go through the proper procedures and wait years to get in to the country. These "illegal crossers" (in quotes because that is the media's preferred term) jump that queue right to the front of the line.

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I am good at finding hay where conservatives insist that there is none.

Why do residents of rural areas want immigrants to live there? Why do
they want immigrants rather than other Canadians? Is it because they
yearn for their rural environs to become more culturally diverse?
Somehow I doubt that. No, I smell a need for cheap unskilled labor.

No, you're not good at it. You clearly don't know Canada. We get our cheap labour without a need for illegals. They come from Jamaica and Mexico on what are called temporary foreign worker visas. This is largely for agriculture. Many come to Canada each season year after year for decades.

Rural areas want immigrants because most areas have a shrinking population.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/10/25 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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Another factor could be that large cities are homes to charitable organizations who help refugees with the resources they need to get
along in their new home country. This is rarely direct cash
disbursements, but other forms of assistance such as finding a place to live. At least in the US, such assistance is not as readily available in rural areas; I assume the same is true in Canada? Why do you suppose
that is? If the citizens of rural areas are so keen to attract
immigrants to be their neighbors, why is such assistance not offered?

It could be, too, that the government takes this into account when
placing refugees. Acceptance in and the assistance of their neighbors is certain to make a difference in a refugee's success in their new country.

Yes, that is certainly a big reason why legal immigrants choose the big cities. Refugees, ones that Canada brings here are settled all over the country in towns and cities of various sizes.

The illegal crossers settler in Montreal or Toronto. Many of them are Haitian and there is a Haitian community in Montreal. They go where they want, the government doesn't place them.

Rural areas are doing better at attracting immigrants, but they obviously don't have the resources big cities do.

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Hello Doug,

If the "loophole" (which I suspect is asylum) is legal, then the
crossings aren't illegal. That you wish it were illegal does not make

it

so. Calling them "illegal" does not make them so; it's only an excuse

to

bash immigrants.

Jeff, I know you don't much Canadian news in the US, but they are indeed illegal crossings. They get arrested and charged upon crossing and then are given a court date (usually 6 months to a year out) and are released. This is common knowledge as it was widely covered by Canadian media (all of
it) when it first started happening a few years ago.

If it was that easy then Mexicans and others would not bother stopping
in the USA but continue on their way to Canada.

Loophole busted.

--Lee

--
They say `Yes, Trump'! / We say `No, Trump!'

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

I am sure it couldn't be that they are not really seeking asylum, but are really coming all the way here because of some promises that have been made to them by Americans who think similar to yourself... "claim
'asylum' and they have to let you in..."

Joe's promise to import millions of refugees from central america has been fulfilled. Despite being raped on the way here due to Joe's preferred migration protocol, they are still grateful for their acceptance at our border. Now all the speculation about millions of dollars to Trump victims will keep the idea looking attractive for years to come.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
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Conservatives don't want foreigners of certain nationalities coming into this country, regardless of whether they do so illegally or not, and are more than willing to ignore this fundamental difference between the two groups.

Which conservatives are those? Which nationalities are they rejecting? Which member of the media are you parroting this time?

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

I am sure it couldn't be that they are not really seeking asylum, but are
really coming all the way here because of some promises that have been made to them by Americans who think similar to yourself... "claim 'asylum' and they have to let you in..."

Initially, yes. But it's not the say-one-word-and-you're-golden situation that you portray it as. There are initial interviews that weed out the obvious frauds, and a process for the others to follow. They are not granted citizenship, they cannot vote, they cannot work for around 6 months, and they are not eligible for welfare or other "free stuff."

So you admit that there are those who are not really looking for asylum but
who are claiming it and, if they are not obvious frauds, they get to stay.

So, they are lying and are therefore here illegally, right?


* SLMR 2.1a * Sir! Romulan Warbird decloaking off th #%NO CARRIER
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* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

Same loophole, and government action, that we have here in the US. They can cross at any "illegal" entry point (because, technically, they have to come in at an official entry point, making all other crossings illegal) and all they have to do when caught is claim "asylum" and they are loop-holed.

So the "loophole" is that refugees requesting asylum are not "illegal."

They cross at an illegal entry point but, as long as they claim "asylum," whether true or not, there is their loophole.

It would be nice if we could all do illegal things and then, when we get caught, be able to utter a magic word to get out of them, woudn't it?


* SLMR 2.1a * EBCDIC: Erase Backup Chew Disk Ignite Cards
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* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

I am good at finding hay where conservatives insist that there is none.

Why do residents of rural areas want immigrants to live there? Why do they want immigrants rather than other Canadians? Is it because they yearn for their rural environs to become more culturally diverse? Somehow I doubt that. No, I smell a need for cheap unskilled labor.

If they can only do cheap, unskilled labor (not my claim), would you rather them work or sit and not do anything, similar to many Americans (and I am guessing Canadians, too) with "disposable" college degrees?


* SLMR 2.1a * Docs? Why look at the Docs? Nurses are better.
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So people discovered if they crossing illegally (i.e. not at a border crossing
instead of being immediately returned to the US they would instead get arreste
for crossing illegally and be allowed to stay in the country until their court
ate. At court they claim refugee status. I don't know what the rate is now, bu
last year it was about 50% that get to stay and the rest deported.

Here they often don't even go to jail. The current federal government
gives them a court date and then turns them loose. Lately, they've been turning them loose far from the border. They are on the honor system.


* SLMR 2.1a * We're lost, yes.....but we're making good time.
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phole closed. The big issue with this loophole for most Canadians is that it i
seen as queue jumping. Immigrants go through the proper procedures and wait ye
s to get in to the country. These "illegal crossers" (in quotes because that i
the media's preferred term) jump that queue right to the front of the line.

An issue here also. I work with a lot of legal immigrants. They have all sorts of trouble. If you come in legal, and from a place separated by an ocean, they enforce the laws against them 100% because they know they are working and don't want to lose their jobs.

I hear that people can overstay a visa somehow, and I have seen in the news that they do, but I cannot figure out how considering how much they hassle
my legal co-workers. Unlike the illegal crossers, my co-workers have no
magic word they can utter to get preferred treatment.


* SLMR 2.1a * How do they get Teflon to stick to the pans?
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On 17 Dec 2021, Doug McComber said the following...

Then what's the "loophole?"

When someone comes into Canada via the US at a regular border crossing
and they
claim refugee status they are immediately refused entry. The same in reverse if
someone coming from Canada enters the US at a border crossing. No hearing, just "return to sender".

According to asylumconnect.org, "The Canadian government has enforced border restrictions, effective March 21, 2020. Air carriers are required to deny boarding to anyone who is not a Canadian / US citizen or permanent resident. Asylum seekers who enter Canada irregularly between official land border crossings will be temporarily returned to the United States and may return to the Canadian border once the measure is lifted."

So it would appear that the "loophole" has been closed for well over a year.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 17 Dec 2021, Doug McComber said the following...

No not quite. Depends on the region. But Canada doesn't have anything
like the electoral college system in the US. I think it is pretty universally recognized that without the electoral college system US presidential elections would be decided by New York, LA, Chicago etc. So our elections are heavily decided by Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver (somewhat). There are other smaller urban areas that vote Conservative
or NDP (left of the Liberals). But they don't decide elections like Toronto does. Some rural areas will vote Liberal but the majority vote Conservative (a little bit NDP). But without a system like the electoral college, these rural areas just don't have the seat count to
"win".

The electoral college is irrelevant. The political distribution in the US between urban and rural areas has nothing to do with the electoral college. Their representation in government does, but the actual distribution does not.

What exactly is the nature of the "loophole?" Could opposition to the "loophole" be seen as hostility towards immigrants? At the very least opposition to the "loophole" is indicative of a belief that not all o the immigrants who are present should be, and some percentage of immigrants could view the expression of that belief as hostility.

Explained in the previous reply. But the last survey I saw (for a left
of centre newspaper) showed ~70% of the population (all political
stripes) wanted the loophole closed. The big issue with this loophole
for most Canadians is that it is seen as queue jumping. Immigrants go through the proper procedures and wait years to get in to the country. These "illegal crossers" (in quotes because that is the media's
preferred term) jump that queue right to the front of the line.

Yes, because refugees fleeing persecution are on a little bit different timetable than most other folks. However, they are merely given the benefit
of the doubt and given asylum temporarily; permanent residence requires them
to prove that they are actually fleeing persecution. As mentioned in my previous post, this does not appear to be the case since March, 2020, though.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 17 Dec 2021, Doug McComber said the following...

I am good at finding hay where conservatives insist that there is non Why do residents of rural areas want immigrants to live there? Why do they want immigrants rather than other Canadians? Is it because they yearn for their rural environs to become more culturally diverse? Somehow I doubt that. No, I smell a need for cheap unskilled labor.

No, you're not good at it. You clearly don't know Canada. We get our
cheap labour without a need for illegals. They come from Jamaica and Mexico on what are called temporary foreign worker visas. This is
largely for agriculture. Many come to Canada each season year after year for decades.

That's one source, yes. Perhaps employers are open to others.

Rural areas want immigrants because most areas have a shrinking population.

So anyone would do, but they prefer immigrants?

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

Here they often don't even go to jail. The current federal government gives them a court date and then turns them loose.

No jail time here either. They are not only turned loose immediately but they are given some social assistance benefits and put up in hotels.
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On 17 Dec 2021, Doug McComber said the following...

Another factor could be that large cities are homes to charitable organizations who help refugees with the resources they need to get along in their new home country. This is rarely direct cash

[...]

It could be, too, that the government takes this into account when placing refugees. Acceptance in and the assistance of their neighbors certain to make a difference in a refugee's success in their new coun

Yes, that is certainly a big reason why legal immigrants choose the big cities.

"Illegal crossers" being, at least prior to March of 2020, legal immigrants.

Refugees, ones that Canada brings here are settled all over the country
in towns and cities of various sizes.

How long must they wait before they can choose where they wish to live?

The illegal crossers settler in Montreal or Toronto. Many of them are Haitian and there is a Haitian community in Montreal. They go where they want, the government doesn't place them.

Given a choice, they go where there are more resources.

Rural areas are doing better at attracting immigrants, but they
obviously don't
have the resources big cities do.

Perhaps they could do something about that.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 18 Dec 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

I am sure it couldn't be that they are not really seeking asylum, b are
really coming all the way here because of some promises that have b made to them by Americans who think similar to yourself... "claim 'asylum' and they have to let you in..."

Initially, yes. But it's not the say-one-word-and-you're-golden situatio that you portray it as. There are initial interviews that weed out the obvious frauds, and a process for the others to follow. They are not gra citizenship, they cannot vote, they cannot work for around 6 months, and are not eligible for welfare or other "free stuff."

So you admit that there are those who are not really looking for asylum but who are claiming it and, if they are not obvious frauds, they get to stay.

The majority of them do not pass that initial test. The rest are given the benefit of the doubt that returning to their home country puts their lives at risk. However, they are not yet done having to prove their case at that point.

So, they are lying and are therefore here illegally, right?

No, they are here legally, but that status is far from certain to be
permanent.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 18 Dec 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

Same loophole, and government action, that we have here in the US. can cross at any "illegal" entry point (because, technically, they to come in at an official entry point, making all other crossings illegal) and all they have to do when caught is claim "asylum" and are loop-holed.

So the "loophole" is that refugees requesting asylum are not "illegal."

They cross at an illegal entry point but, as long as they claim "asylum," whether true or not, there is their loophole.

That does not guarantee that they will be allowed to stay permanently,
though. The process is far from complete at that point.

It would be nice if we could all do illegal things and then, when we get caught, be able to utter a magic word to get out of them, woudn't it?

Sure, like shooting someone and then claiming it was an "accident." The gun
was in your possession, it went off, and someone was killed. But really, it
was just an "accident."

Intent counts for a lot.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 18 Dec 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

I am good at finding hay where conservatives insist that there is none. Why do residents of rural areas want immigrants to live there? Why do th want immigrants rather than other Canadians? Is it because they yearn fo their rural environs to become more culturally diverse? Somehow I doubt No, I smell a need for cheap unskilled labor.

If they can only do cheap, unskilled labor (not my claim), would you rather them work or sit and not do anything, similar to many Americans (and I am guessing Canadians, too) with "disposable" college degrees?

It's a free country; they should be allowed to do what they want to do. I
also didn't say they could *only* do unskilled labor. I have quite a lot of education and experience in my chosen profession, but if you were to drop me onto a construction site and tell me to get busy, I would definitely consider myself "unskilled labor" in that context.

History has pretty well shown that unskilled labor, whether immigrants or
not, would rather do just about anything than work in agriculture. The
Southern US had to get slaves to do it, and when that became illegal, used undocumented immigrants who could be exploited for lower wages due to their non-legal immigration status.

Interestingly, the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 made it a federal felony to knowingly conceal, harbor, or shield an illegal immigrant. Sounds great, right? However it also contained what was known as the Texas Proviso, which stated that *employing* undocumented workers did not constitute "harboring" or "concealing" them. How convenient, and blessed at the national level, too.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 18 Dec 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

Here they often don't even go to jail. The current federal government gives them a court date and then turns them loose. Lately, they've been turning them loose far from the border. They are on the honor system.

In 2018, 89% of asylum seekers attended their final court hearing to learn of the decision that was made about them.

However, asylum seekers are responsible for acquiring their own legal representation in the asylum process. When resources were made available to them providing them with legal representation, the number of asylum-seekers
who attended their final hearing was 98%.

Trump claimed that only 3% of asylum-seekers attend immigration court in
order to promote the claim that the asylum system is a "loophole." This was a blatant lie in overt service of a bigger lie. Trump's claims are not
supported by facts or evidence, but they are what his followers want to hear.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 18 Dec 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

An issue here also. I work with a lot of legal immigrants. They have
all sorts of trouble. If you come in legal, and from a place separated
by an ocean, they enforce the laws against them 100% because they know they are working and don't want to lose their jobs.

I see.

I hear that people can overstay a visa somehow, and I have seen in the news that they do, but I cannot figure out how considering how much they hassle my legal co-workers. Unlike the illegal crossers, my co-workers have no magic word they can utter to get preferred treatment.

So you're saying that you can't imagine how anyone could overstay a visa, but are convinced that refugees can just skip a court hearing and be off
scot-free? Interesting.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 18 Dec 2021, Doug McComber said the following...

Here they often don't even go to jail. The current federal governmen gives them a court date and then turns them loose.

No jail time here either. They are not only turned loose immediately but they are given some social assistance benefits and put up in hotels.

As would seem appropriate for someone who is in the country legally.

The "loophole" only seems to be a "loophole" for those concerned about queue-jumping; there's no other justification given for claiming that people seeking asylum should be imprisoned.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

Here they often don't even go to jail. The current federal government gives them a court date and then turns them loose.

No jail time here either. They are not only turned loose immediately but they e given some social assistance benefits and put up in hotels.

Sounds like here.


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It would be nice if we could all do illegal things and then, when we get caught, be able to utter a magic word to get out of them, woudn't it?

Sure, like shooting someone and then claiming it was an "accident." The gun was in your possession, it went off, and someone was killed. But really, it was just an "accident."

I was thinking more along the lines of speeding or trespassing, especially
the latter, since that is what the others with magic words are in effect
doing.

"ASYLUM!" and everything is A-OK!

I would include looting and shoplifting but apparently several of the folks doing that lately know some other magic word or incantation that works
better.


* SLMR 2.1a * Psychoceramics: The study of crackpots.
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I hear that people can overstay a visa somehow, and I have seen in the news that they do, but I cannot figure out how considering how much they hassle my legal co-workers. Unlike the illegal crossers, my co-workers have no magic word they can utter to get preferred treatment.

So you're saying that you can't imagine how anyone could overstay a visa, but are convinced that refugees can just skip a court hearing and be off scot-free? Interesting.

There is a difference there. The people I know on visas are working, and I cannot imagine them keeping their jobs if their visas expire (because they don't). Now, if I had experience working somewhere that looked the other
way (and got away with it), or knew visa overstayers who somehow did so while not being employed or attending school, it might not be so difficult to imagine.

OTOH, here locally I follow the sherrif's FB page, and skipping court dates is apparently an everyday occurance.


* SLMR 2.1a * How do you know if you run out of invisible ink?
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Joe's promise to import millions of refugees from central america has been fulfilled. Despite being raped on the way here due to Joe's preferred migratio
protocol, they are still grateful for their acceptance at our border. Now all the speculation about millions of dollars to Trump victims will keep the idea looking attractive for years to come.

Proving that they are victims of Trump, for future border crossers, will be more difficult to do since he is not in charge.

OTOH, I still wonder why we don't owe victims of the Obama/Binden administration money, too, if we owe supposed Trump victims money. I guess Trump is smarter than they claim, built a time machine, traveled back in
time, and put those cages in place?


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As would seem appropriate for someone who is in the country legally.

The "loophole" only seems to be a "loophole" for those concerned about queue-jumping; there's no other justification given for claiming that people seeking asylum should be imprisoned.

The loophole is that they can cross anywhere, which is illegal. If they
know the magic word, they get treated just as if they had crossed at a
legal location (or as if they didn't even cross, as you have pointed out).

In other words, before claiming asylum (legal) they broke the law and apparently don't get punished for it.

If they somehow have not learned the magic word, they get treated as a law-breaker.


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Conservatives don't want foreigners of certain nationalities coming into this country, regardless of whether they do so illegally or not, and are more than willing to ignore this fundamental difference between the two groups.

Which conservatives are those? Which nationalities are they rejecting? Which member of the media are you parroting this time?

The only ones who seem to be making a difference between the two groups are
the non-conservatives like Jeff-T. The rest of us can claim we are fine
with immigrants and don't like *anyone* being here illegally or queue-jumping in front of those who are here legally, but we will somehow get lumped back into the "racist conservatives" group before we know it.

We only share borders with two countries. Foreigners only seem to be
pouring over one of them at any noteworthy rate. If predominantly-white Canadians were pouring over our Northern border, I would have the same
issue with it as I do the Southern one. As it is, that doesn't seem to be
a problem, which is why it might seem to some individuals that other individuals only have a problem with Central Americans.

I do not think that everyone is making that honest mistake, though. It is
a lot easier to throw people's opinions into question when you can attach
an "-ism" to them and call them names.


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So it would appear that the "loophole" has been closed for well over a year.

The legal loophole hasn't been closed. No laws have been passed. Instead the government decided to enforce the spirit of the Can/US agreement (with respect to refugee claims) because of COVID. I'll have to check later (I'm writing this on a vintage PC because I'm a loon sometimes) but I'm pretty sure they re-opened the illegal crossings recently.
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The electoral college is irrelevant. The political distribution in the US between urban and rural areas has nothing to do with the electoral college. Their representation in government does, but the actual distribution does not.

Well that's your opinion and you're entitled to it of course. But I would argue most would disagree with it.

Yes, because refugees fleeing persecution are on a little bit different timetable than most other folks. However, they are merely given the benefit of the doubt and given asylum temporarily; permanent residence requires them to prove that they are actually fleeing persecution. As mentioned in my previous post, this does not appear to be the case since March, 2020, though.

Right. But the difference is theses "refugees" are already in the US. They are not American citizens fleeing persecution by the US. They are already safely in the US. This is why our two countries have that legal agreement in place where someone from a third country in Canada can't walk into the US and claim asylum and vice versa.
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That's one source, yes. Perhaps employers are open to others.

There are no others. We don't share a border with Mexico and it is very very rare for "boat people" to show up on our shores. Has only happened a couple of times in the past 100 years.

Rural areas want immigrants because most areas have a shrinking population.

So anyone would do, but they prefer immigrants?

It's not "prefer immigrants" so much as internal migration patterns just don't exist (generally) where people are moving from cities to rural areas.

My province (Nova Scotia) just passed the 1 million population threshold last week and while immigration is up significantly (for this region) and the province is thrilled with that and trying to attract more, the bulk of population growth in 2020 was actually mostly Ontarians moving here. They were escaping both COVID (it was very low here) and having their housing dollars go much further. Many could telework.
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"Illegal crossers" being, at least prior to March of 2020, legal immigrants.

Nope. That is why they are arrested and charged as soon as they cross. Last stat I saw (which would have been early 2020) was that 50% are deported and the other 50% get refugee status. This is of course after a court hearing.

How long must they wait before they can choose where they wish to live?

Good question. I don't know but I don't think they are bound to live where they are placed. It is just a placement program as opposed to "you must live here".

The illegal crossers settler in Montreal or Toronto. Many of them are

Given a choice, they go where there are more resources.

I imagine most people the world over want to live in a city. Toronto in particular and Montreal have large immigrant populations so familiarity is a draw for some too.

Perhaps they could do something about that.

I don't know about other provinces, but Nova Scotia is slowly improving. Slowly. There are other issues in rural areas that make it difficult for anyone starting out without family roots to make things easier. Lack of public transportation and affordable housing (real-estate is cheaper but apartments aren't as plentiful) can be barriers.
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No jail time here either. They are not only turned loose immediately they are given some social assistance benefits and put up in hotels.

As would seem appropriate for someone who is in the country legally.

The "loophole" only seems to be a "loophole" for those concerned about queue-jumping; there's no other justification given for claiming that people seeking asylum should be imprisoned.

Well you've stated that a few times but they are not there legally. That is why they are arrested and charged when the cross illegally. They are arrested and charged FOR crossing illegally.

Our two countries have a treaty (and each country has laws to enact/enforce this treaty) whereby when someone from a third country enters Can from the US (or vice versa) and claims asylum they are denied immediately on the spot and immediately sent back to the other country. However when someone sneaks into Canada (by crossing illegally) they are charged and as we have due process they have a court date. That gives them the opportunity to request asylum.

This didn't use to occur all that frequently. But then the Prime Minister made some tweet a few years back saying Canada would welcome whomever Trump was seen to have tweeted against and word spread among the Haitians (mostly Haitians) in the US who were there because of some program you guys had regarding the 2007 hurricane. They started crossing at Roxham Road into Quebec. The appropriate response, given the Can/US treaty would have been to stop them and turn them around. Instead the government had the RCMP literally help them across (there are photos of RCMP carry luggage). They still get arrested and charged. But the numbers crossing there ballooned as word got out. All the while the majority of Canadians, of all political stripes, wanted the government to close it down.
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On 19 Dec 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

It would be nice if we could all do illegal things and then, when w caught, be able to utter a magic word to get out of them, woudn't i

Sure, like shooting someone and then claiming it was an "accident." The was in your possession, it went off, and someone was killed. But really, was just an "accident."

I was thinking more along the lines of speeding or trespassing,
especially the latter, since that is what the others with magic words
are in effect doing.
"ASYLUM!" and everything is A-OK!

No, it's not A-OK. There's still a lot to be done after that. They are not simply let go at that point, as you would have us believe, but are taken into custody and detained pending a screening. If they fail the screening, they
are deported.

I would include looting and shoplifting but apparently several of the folks doing that lately know some other magic word or incantation that works better.

People are arrested for looting and shoplifting. I suspect you're referring
to the George Floyd riots and yes, people were arrested for that. Not at the time, much like the 1/6 insurrectionists were not arrested on-site, but over time and after investigation.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 19 Dec 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

I hear that people can overstay a visa somehow, and I have seen in news that they do, but I cannot figure out how considering how much hassle my legal co-workers. Unlike the illegal crossers, my co-wor have no magic word they can utter to get preferred treatment.

So you're saying that you can't imagine how anyone could overstay a visa are convinced that refugees can just skip a court hearing and be off scot-free? Interesting.

There is a difference there. The people I know on visas are working,
and I cannot imagine them keeping their jobs if their visas expire (because they don't). Now, if I had experience working somewhere that looked the other way (and got away with it), or knew visa overstayers
who somehow did so while not being employed or attending school, it
might not be so difficult to imagine.

They could not keep those jobs, probably, but could find others.

However, work visas are not the only type of visa available. There are also visitor visas, student visas, and others.

OTOH, here locally I follow the sherrif's FB page, and skipping court dates is apparently an everyday occurance.

Sure, but failure to appear is not as consequence-free as you try to make it out to be. For something minor like a traffic ticket, you may get away with
it for a while, but the next time you're involved in a traffic stop or othr police encounter, those consequences will be waiting for you.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 19 Dec 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

As would seem appropriate for someone who is in the country legally.
The "loophole" only seems to be a "loophole" for those concerned about queue-jumping; there's no other justification given for claiming that pe seeking asylum should be imprisoned.

The loophole is that they can cross anywhere, which is illegal. If they know the magic word, they get treated just as if they had crossed at a legal location (or as if they didn't even cross, as you have pointed
out).

It is not illegal to cross anywhere, for the purpose of requesting asylum.

In other words, before claiming asylum (legal) they broke the law and apparently don't get punished for it.

Their intent is taken into account when deciding whether or not they broke
the law.

If they somehow have not learned the magic word, they get treated as a law-breaker.

If they cannot back that word up with sufficient proof, they are indeed
treated as a law-breaker. Simply claiming asylum at the border is not the magical thing you seem to think it is.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 19 Dec 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

Conservatives don't want foreigners of certain nationalities coming this country, regardless of whether they do so illegally or not, an more than willing to ignore this fundamental difference between the groups.

Which conservatives are those? Which nationalities are they rejecting? W member of the media are you parroting this time?

The only ones who seem to be making a difference between the two groups are the non-conservatives like Jeff-T. The rest of us can claim we are fine with immigrants and don't like *anyone* being here illegally or queue-jumping in front of those who are here legally, but we will
somehow get lumped back into the "racist conservatives" group before we know it.

Well, people like me and the actual law.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 19 Dec 2021, Doug McComber said the following...

So it would appear that the "loophole" has been closed for well over year.

The legal loophole hasn't been closed. No laws have been passed. Instead the government decided to enforce the spirit of the Can/US agreement
(with respect to refugee claims) because of COVID. I'll have to check later (I'm writing this on a vintage PC because I'm a loon sometimes)
but I'm pretty sure they re-opened the illegal crossings recently.

The loophole has *effectively* been closed. I'm typing this on an Apple IIgs. Loons of a feather, I guess...

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 19 Dec 2021, Doug McComber said the following...

The electoral college is irrelevant. The political distribution in th between urban and rural areas has nothing to do with the electoral college. Their representation in government does, but the actual distribution does not.

Well that's your opinion and you're entitled to it of course. But I
would argue most would disagree with it.

It's not an opinion; it's a matter of cause and effect. Does the existence of the electoral college cause conservatives to tend to prefer rural areas, and liberals urban areas? I don't see how, but if you'd care to enlighten me
please do so.

Your own assertion that the same is largely true in Canada only backs up my point, because it is happening there in the absence of an electoral college.

How does it benefit you to have the opposite opinion, that the US electroal college is somehow responsible for the distribution of conservatives and liberals in rural and urban areas?

Yes, because refugees fleeing persecution are on a little bit differe timetable than most other folks. However, they are merely given the benefit of the doubt and given asylum temporarily; permanent residenc requires them to prove that they are actually fleeing persecution. As mentioned in my previous post, this does not appear to be the case si March, 2020, though.

Right. But the difference is theses "refugees" are already in the US. They are not American citizens fleeing persecution by the US. They are already safely in the US. This is why our two countries have that legal agreement in place where someone from a third country in Canada can't
walk into the US and claim asylum and vice versa.

They are also subject to persecution in the US, because they are in the US illegally.

Had they requested asylum in the US, they would be in the US legally, but
doing so would prevent claiming asylum in Canada, as you have pointed out.

The Safe Third Country Agreement has several requirements and several exceptions. The most relevant here is that it only applies to people who
cross the border at border crossings, by train, or by aircraft (with some additional exceptions for the latter).

Why they didn't include any border crossing, but limited it to these three types, is an interesting question. It would have been extremely easy to say, "Anyone entering Canada or the US..." but they seem to have gone through additional effort to list the means of entry that the agreement applies to.
If it's a "loophole," it very much seems to be an intentional one.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 19 Dec 2021, Doug McComber said the following...

That's one source, yes. Perhaps employers are open to others.

There are no others. We don't share a border with Mexico and it is very very rare for "boat people" to show up on our shores. Has only happened
a couple of times in the past 100 years.

So you're saying that there is only one source for agricultural workers in
all of Canada?

Rural areas want immigrants because most areas have a shrinking population.

So anyone would do, but they prefer immigrants?

It's not "prefer immigrants" so much as internal migration patterns just don't exist (generally) where people are moving from cities to rural areas.

Why, then, would immigrants prefer rural living if even native Canadians
don't?

My province (Nova Scotia) just passed the 1 million population threshold last week and while immigration is up significantly (for this region)
and the province is thrilled with that and trying to attract more, the bulk of population growth in 2020 was actually mostly Ontarians moving here. They were escaping both COVID (it was very low here) and having their housing dollars go much further. Many could telework.

Interesting. Well, that's one way to attract people. I'm not sure why the intense focus on immigrants, though.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 19 Dec 2021, Doug McComber said the following...

"Illegal crossers" being, at least prior to March of 2020, legal immigrants.

Nope. That is why they are arrested and charged as soon as they cross. Last stat I saw (which would have been early 2020) was that 50% are deported and the other 50% get refugee status. This is of course after
a court hearing.

That makes perfect sense, and is pretty much what happens here. Those
"illegal crossers" who get refugee status and are allowed to remain are legal immigrants, while those who do not are deported. Therefore, it would seem
that all of the "illegal crossers" who requested asylum are accounted for: Those who were granted asylum are in the country legally, and those who were refused asylum are no longer in the country.

How long must they wait before they can choose where they wish to liv

Good question. I don't know but I don't think they are bound to live
where they are placed. It is just a placement program as opposed to "you must live here".

Fair enough.

The illegal crossers settler in Montreal or Toronto. Many of the

Given a choice, they go where there are more resources.

I imagine most people the world over want to live in a city. Toronto in particular and Montreal have large immigrant populations so familiarity
is a draw for some too.

True.

Perhaps they could do something about that.

I don't know about other provinces, but Nova Scotia is slowly improving. Slowly. There are other issues in rural areas that make it difficult for anyone starting out without family roots to make things easier. Lack of public transportation and affordable housing (real-estate is cheaper but apartments aren't as plentiful) can be barriers.

Sounds like a plan.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 19 Dec 2021, Doug McComber said the following...

No jail time here either. They are not only turned loose immedia they are given some social assistance benefits and put up in hot

As would seem appropriate for someone who is in the country legally. The "loophole" only seems to be a "loophole" for those concerned abou queue-jumping; there's no other justification given for claiming that people seeking asylum should be imprisoned.

Well you've stated that a few times but they are not there legally. That is why they are arrested and charged when the cross illegally. They are arrested and charged FOR crossing illegally.

And then the charges are deferred pending their claim of asylum. If granted asylum, the charges are dropped. If not, the charges stand. There seems to be
a component of intent to the crime of crossing the border illegally, as is
true for many other crimes.

Our two countries have a treaty (and each country has laws to enact/enforce this treaty) whereby when someone from a third country enters Can from the US (or vice versa) and claims asylum they are denied immediately on the spot and immediately sent back to the other country. However when someone sneaks into Canada (by crossing illegally) they are charged and as we have due process they have a court date. That gives them the opportunity to request asylum.

It does, and for whatever reason while other means of entering the country
were meticulously laid out in the agreement, simply crossing the border was left out. It seems like they could have left out all of the defining of what types of border crossings the agreement applies to and just left it at "any border crossing of any sort" but they didn't. And they appear to have done so on purpose.

This didn't use to occur all that frequently. But then the Prime
Minister made some tweet a few years back saying Canada would welcome whomever Trump was seen to have tweeted against and word spread among
the Haitians (mostly Haitians) in the US who were there because of some program you guys had regarding the 2007 hurricane. They started
crossing at Roxham Road into Quebec. The appropriate response, given the Can/US treaty would have been to stop them and turn them around. Instead the government had the RCMP literally help them across (there are photos of RCMP carry luggage). They still get arrested and charged. But the numbers crossing there ballooned as word got out. All the while the majority of Canadians, of all political stripes, wanted the government
to close it down.

I take it that Roxham Road is not an official border crossing?

In the portions of the southern US where there is a border wall, the wall
does not sit on the border itself, but is set back on the US side. This
leaves a small strip of US soil that is south of the wall. Refugees gather there and when they see Border Patrol agents, they approach the agents and request asylum. The agents escort the refugees through gates in the wall to waiting buses, and they are transported to a detention facility for
processing.

There's really no need to deny these people basic human dignity and respect, and nothing to be gained by doing so.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 19 Dec 2021, Doug McComber said the following...

Our two countries have a treaty (and each country has laws to enact/enforce this treaty) whereby when someone from a third country enters Can from the US (or vice versa) and claims asylum they are denied immediately on the spot and immediately sent back to the other country. However when someone sneaks into Canada (by crossing illegally) they are charged and as we have due process they have a court date. That gives them the opportunity to request asylum.

They are not necessarily denied asylum immediately on the spot. There are
some interesting exceptions listed in the agreement.

One such exception is that if someone has committed a crime in the US that would make them eligible for the death penalty in the state where the crime
was committed, they are allowed to request asylum instead of being
immediately turned away.

Does this mean that there's a "loophole" for murderers? Sure sounds like it!

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

The loophole has *effectively* been closed. I'm typing this on an Apple IIgs. Loons of a feather, I guess...

Nice. I had one in my collection and sold it a few years ago. Kind of regret it.

I still haven't looked to see if they've re-opened or not. Pretty sure they had, but with the Omicron surge just starting here they may have put it off.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/10/25 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1:105/420)

It's not an opinion; it's a matter of cause and effect. Does the
existence of the electoral college cause conservatives to tend to prefer rural areas, and liberals urban areas? I don't see how, but if you'd
care to enlighten me please do so.
Your own assertion that the same is largely true in Canada only backs up my point, because it is happening there in the absence of an electoral college.
How does it benefit you to have the opposite opinion, that the US electroal college is somehow responsible for the distribution of conservatives and liberals in rural and urban areas?

The answer to all that is just a misunderstanding. I meant the electoral college protects rural areas from being dominated politically by the big urban areas, not that it causes rural/urban divide.

Point being in Canada, because we don't have something like that, federal elections are largely decided by the big urban areas. There is a corridor of urban ridings between Quebec City and the Greater Toronto Area that largely decides the outcome of federal elections for the entire country.

They are also subject to persecution in the US, because they are in the
US illegally.

Well, if they are legitimate refugees they could have claimed asylum in the US. Being there illegally is not a legit reason to claim asylum and Canada.

The Safe Third Country Agreement has several requirements and several exceptions. The most relevant here is that it only applies to people who cross the border at border crossings, by train, or by aircraft (with some additional exceptions for the latter).

Why they didn't include any border crossing, but limited it to these
three types, is an interesting question. It would have been extremely
easy to say, "Anyone entering Canada or the US..." but they seem to have gone through additional effort to list the means of entry that the agreement applies to. If it's a "loophole," it very much seems to be an intentional one.

Yup. Well yup except I don't think it was intentional as it goes against the "spirit" of the agreement. This is what most Canadians want the government to fix through legislation. Polling varied by region, but aggregate from coast to coast 70% of Canadians want the government to put an end to it.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/10/25 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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So you're saying that there is only one source for agricultural workers
in all of Canada?

Locals or foreigners through official Temporary Foreign Worker program. Yup, that's it.

Why, then, would immigrants prefer rural living if even native Canadians don't?

Lol, well they probably wouldn't at any rate greater than some average.

Interesting. Well, that's one way to attract people. I'm not sure why the intense focus on immigrants, though.

Well because prior to the, shall we call it COVID migration, Nova Scotia was always a net loser of people to other provinces. Without immigration we'd have a shrinking population. This province currently has one of the oldest populations per capita.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/10/25 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1:105/420)

I take it that Roxham Road is not an official border crossing?

No it is not

There's really no need to deny these people basic human dignity and respect, and nothing to be gained by doing so.

I don't think anyone would argue with that (well some would I suppose but they are a minority). However the issue with claiming asylum in Canada when you already are in the US is the problem. Just like someone from Ecuador traveling through several countries first before finally reaching the US and claiming asylum.

The UN, International law and most western nations all agree that a refugee should seek asylum in the first safe country they reach. Whereas there is definitely some country shopping going on here.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/10/25 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1:105/420)

They are not necessarily denied asylum immediately on the spot. There are some interesting exceptions listed in the agreement.

One such exception is that if someone has committed a crime in the US
that would make them eligible for the death penalty in the state where
the crime was committed, they are allowed to request asylum instead of being immediately turned away.

Yes, that makes the headline news here every couple of decades.

Does this mean that there's a "loophole" for murderers? Sure sounds like

Well of course not, it is part of the law and is by design. Whereas I don't believe the illegal crossings being left out of the agreement are on purpose, rather it is just an example of shoddy legislation.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/10/25 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1:105/420)

On 19 Dec 2021, Doug McComber said the following...

The answer to all that is just a misunderstanding. I meant the electoral college protects rural areas from being dominated politically by the big urban areas, not that it causes rural/urban divide.

That is true, although "protect" might not be the word everyone would choose. "Give unfair advantage to" would be the word choice of many. The electoral college doesn't just give low-population or low-population-density states an advantage; it was designed to give an advantage to states with large populations of slaves.

Point being in Canada, because we don't have something like that, federal elections are largely decided by the big urban areas. There is a
corridor of urban ridings between Quebec City and the Greater Toronto
Area that largely decides the outcome of federal elections for the
entire country.

One person, one vote sounds perfectly fair to me.

They are also subject to persecution in the US, because they are in t US illegally.

Well, if they are legitimate refugees they could have claimed asylum in the US. Being there illegally is not a legit reason to claim asylum and Canada.

Indeed, they could have. But for whatever reason they did not. Just as people crossing the southern border into the US could have requested asylum in
Mexico, but did not. Just as the people crossing the southern border into Mexico could have requested asylum in Guatemala or Belize, and so on down the line. There are probably people in the US who are happy to see them keep on moving north.

Yup. Well yup except I don't think it was intentional as it goes against the "spirit" of the agreement. This is what most Canadians want the government to fix through legislation. Polling varied by region, but aggregate from coast to coast 70% of Canadians want the government to
put an end to it. --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/10/25 (Raspberry Pi/32)

Unfortunately, the "spirit" of the agreement isn't what got signed.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 19 Dec 2021, Doug McComber said the following...

So you're saying that there is only one source for agricultural worke in all of Canada?

Locals or foreigners through official Temporary Foreign Worker program. Yup, that's it.

Or, it would seem, refugees, if they were willing. Perhaps it could be incentivized somehow? If you could get, say, a Haitian community started in Nova Scotia, that might encourage more to come live and work there.

As it is, though, conservatives showing hostility and resentment toward refugees isn't going to help bring them to conservative areas of the country.

Why, then, would immigrants prefer rural living if even native Canadi don't?

Lol, well they probably wouldn't at any rate greater than some average.

Makes sense. Maybe Nova Scotia needs some bigger cities. That would probably bring more liberals, though. It's quite the conundrum.

Interesting. Well, that's one way to attract people. I'm not sure why intense focus on immigrants, though.

Well because prior to the, shall we call it COVID migration, Nova Scotia was always a net loser of people to other provinces. Without immigration we'd have a shrinking population. This province currently has one of
the oldest populations per capita.

It seems like there's something that could be done to attract immigrants, perhaps through the government. I mean, you seem to think that Canada as a whole has too many immigrants, but Nova Scotia doesn't have enough...

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 19 Dec 2021, Doug McComber said the following...

I take it that Roxham Road is not an official border crossing?

No it is not

K, just wanted to make sure.

There's really no need to deny these people basic human dignity and respect, and nothing to be gained by doing so.

I don't think anyone would argue with that (well some would I suppose
but they are a minority). However the issue with claiming asylum in
Canada when you already are in the US is the problem. Just like someone from Ecuador traveling through several countries first before finally reaching the US and claiming asylum.

Yep, but they do what they do.

The UN, International law and most western nations all agree that a refugee should seek asylum in the first safe country they reach. Whereas there is definitely some country shopping going on here.

Apparently they would not agree on that.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 19 Dec 2021, Doug McComber said the following...

They are not necessarily denied asylum immediately on the spot. There some interesting exceptions listed in the agreement.
One such exception is that if someone has committed a crime in the US that would make them eligible for the death penalty in the state wher the crime was committed, they are allowed to request asylum instead o being immediately turned away.

Yes, that makes the headline news here every couple of decades.

Indeed, it does.

Does this mean that there's a "loophole" for murderers? Sure sounds l

Well of course not, it is part of the law and is by design. Whereas I don't believe the illegal crossings being left out of the agreement are
on purpose, rather it is just an example of shoddy legislation.

It sounds like a "loophole" built into the law (or agreement, however you
want to put it). How do you suppose that the people who wrote the agreement came up with all of these requirements and exceptions and such, while forgetting to make the it applicable to someone who simply crosses the border at a non-official place? Do you suppose they thought that such a thing would never happen?

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

That is true, although "protect" might not be the word everyone would choose. "Give unfair advantage to" would be the word choice of many. The electoral college doesn't just give low-population or low-population-density states an advantage; it was designed to give an advantage to states with large populations of slaves.

Right. A case of perspective. Many here like the way it is and many want change. Some would like something closer to the electoral college so that confederation matters more than population. Still others just want some form of proportional representation. Polling-wise over the past several years most want change from our "first past the post" system.

Indeed, they could have. But for whatever reason they did not. Just as people crossing the southern border into the US could have requested asylum in Mexico, but did not. Just as the people crossing the southern border into Mexico could have requested asylum in Guatemala or Belize,
and so on down the line. There are probably people in the US who are
happy to see them keep on moving north.

Another case of perspective. Many believe people who do this to be "country shopping" which to them invalidates their claim to be refugees. Others don't have that view.

Unfortunately, the "spirit" of the agreement isn't what got signed.

Happens all the time with legislation. At least here anyway.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/10/25 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1:105/420)

As it is, though, conservatives showing hostility and resentment toward refugees isn't going to help bring them to conservative areas of the country.

Um, that's really not a thing here. You have to remember Canada's conservatives are left of your Republicans. Conservatism in Canada over the past 20 years shifted right a step then leftwards a half step. In the 80s they were considered left of the Democratic Party. They didn't form government in the 90s and went through a split and sort of regrouping. They ended up (comparatively for the time) about on par with Democrats of the 90s. At this time the Conservative Party was about as "right-wing" as they had ever been in Canadian history. When they formed government in the 2000's they actually increased immigration dramatically from the Liberal government before them, and most of that immigration was from S.E. Asia.

In the past few years they've drifted a little left but I'd say the Democratic Party has shifted a bit more leftward and today's Conservative Party would be slightly right of the Democratic Party but still pretty far from the Republican Party.

All that to say conservatives here aren't what you described as quoted above. And as I pointed out, the issue (that people across all political stripes) have here with these illegal crossers is the queue jumping.

It seems like there's something that could be done to attract immigrants, perhaps through the government. I mean, you seem to think that Canada as
a whole has too many immigrants, but Nova Scotia doesn't have enough...

I don't know where you got the idea that I think Canada has too many immigrants. I never said or implied that.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/10/25 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1:105/420)

It sounds like a "loophole" built into the law (or agreement, however you want to put it). How do you suppose that the people who wrote the agreement came up with all of these requirements and exceptions and
such, while forgetting to make the it applicable to someone who simply crosses the border at a non-official place? Do you suppose they thought that such a thing would never happen?

Ineptitude. Governments are infamous for it.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/10/25 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1:105/420)

On 20 Dec 2021, Doug McComber said the following...

As it is, though, conservatives showing hostility and resentment towa refugees isn't going to help bring them to conservative areas of the country.

Um, that's really not a thing here. You have to remember Canada's conservatives are left of your Republicans. Conservatism in Canada over the past 20 years shifted right a step then leftwards a half step. In
the 80s they were considered left of the Democratic Party. They didn't form government in the 90s and went through a split and sort of regrouping. They ended up (comparatively for the time) about on par with Democrats of the 90s. At this time the Conservative Party was about as "right-wing" as they had ever been in Canadian history. When they formed government in the 2000's they actually increased immigration
dramatically from the Liberal government before them, and most of that immigration was from S.E. Asia.

Um, people expressing resentment over refugees utilizing the "loophole" apparently does happen there.

In the past few years they've drifted a little left but I'd say the Democratic Party has shifted a bit more leftward and today's
Conservative Party would be slightly right of the Democratic Party but still pretty far from the Republican Party.
All that to say conservatives here aren't what you described as quoted above. And as I pointed out, the issue (that people across all political stripes) have here with these illegal crossers is the queue jumping.

So there's no resentment being expressed?

It seems like there's something that could be done to attract immigra perhaps through the government. I mean, you seem to think that Canada a whole has too many immigrants, but Nova Scotia doesn't have enough.

I don't know where you got the idea that I think Canada has too many immigrants. I never said or implied that.

If you're wanting to stop the influx rather than welcome it, isn't it safe to say that you think there are too many immigrants?

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 20 Dec 2021, Doug McComber said the following...

That is true, although "protect" might not be the word everyone would choose. "Give unfair advantage to" would be the word choice of many. electoral college doesn't just give low-population or low-population-density states an advantage; it was designed to give a advantage to states with large populations of slaves.

Right. A case of perspective. Many here like the way it is and many want change. Some would like something closer to the electoral college so that confederation matters more than population. Still others just want some form of proportional representation. Polling-wise over the past several years most want change from our "first past the post" system.

It's pretty easy to guess which is which.

Indeed, they could have. But for whatever reason they did not. Just a people crossing the southern border into the US could have requested asylum in Mexico, but did not. Just as the people crossing the southe border into Mexico could have requested asylum in Guatemala or Belize and so on down the line. There are probably people in the US who are happy to see them keep on moving north.

Another case of perspective. Many believe people who do this to be "country shopping" which to them invalidates their claim to be refugees. Others don't have that view.

True. But which view is supported by the law(s)?

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 20 Dec 2021, Doug McComber said the following...

It sounds like a "loophole" built into the law (or agreement, however want to put it). How do you suppose that the people who wrote the agreement came up with all of these requirements and exceptions and such, while forgetting to make the it applicable to someone who simpl crosses the border at a non-official place? Do you suppose they thoug that such a thing would never happen?

Ineptitude. Governments are infamous for it.

Possibly. Or possibly it was intentional.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

As it is, though, conservatives showing hostility and resentment

Um, people expressing resentment over refugees utilizing the "loophole" apparently does happen there.

You specifically said "conservatives showing hostility and resentment". That is what isn't a thing here. It is a majority of Canadians left, right and in between wishing their government to end the queue jumping. Not "conservatives showing hostility and resentment".

If you're wanting to stop the influx rather than welcome it, isn't it
safe to say that you think there are too many immigrants?

No. There is a big difference between refugees and immigrants. Canada both accepts refugee claims (through an approval process of course) and actively seeks out refugees. They are approved and sought out strictly based on their need for asylum. Whereas immigrants apply and are approved based on merit. Unlike the US we filter our immigration applicants through the country's needs for certain job sectors that are under-manned by existing Canadians. If we need doctors and an applicant is qualified, they get approved. If we need engineers of a certain type and an applicant is qualified, they get approved, etc. If an applicant can't fill a sector that needs people their application doesn't get approved. This is how most of the western world does it but not the US. It works out well for Canada because immigrants generally have employment lined up (or are already working in that field as a resident).

So we take refugees to be compassionate as a nation, but we are looking for skilled immigrants to fill shortages in the workplace.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/10/25 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1:105/420)

Another case of perspective. Many believe people who do this to be "country shopping" which to them invalidates their claim to be refuge Others don't have that view.

True. But which view is supported by the law(s)?

Well there is a case working its way through an appeals court (lower than our national Supreme Court) right now. COVID is overshadowing this whole thing of course. Prior to COVID it was front and centre in people's minds. It was a minor issue in the last election (2021) and if the next election (expect statistically in about 15 months due to the minority government) happens with COVID fading as a pandemic and more endemic than I expect it will be an issue again.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/10/25 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1:105/420)

On 20 Dec 2021, Doug McComber said the following...

As it is, though, conservatives showing hostility and resen

Um, people expressing resentment over refugees utilizing the "loophol apparently does happen there.

You specifically said "conservatives showing hostility and resentment". That is what isn't a thing here. It is a majority of Canadians left,
right and in between wishing their government to end the queue jumping. Not "conservatives showing hostility and resentment".

Expressing resentment is hostility. Not violent hostility, but hostility nonetheless.

If you're wanting to stop the influx rather than welcome it, isn't it safe to say that you think there are too many immigrants?

No. There is a big difference between refugees and immigrants.

Not really. You may have different means of dealing with different classes of immigrant, but anyone entering Canada and living there permanently, by
whatever means, is an immigrant.

So we take refugees to be compassionate as a nation, but we are looking for skilled immigrants to fill shortages in the workplace.

What skills is Nova Scotia seeking as they try to attract immigrants?

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 20 Dec 2021, Doug McComber said the following...

Another case of perspective. Many believe people who do this to "country shopping" which to them invalidates their claim to be r Others don't have that view.

True. But which view is supported by the law(s)?

Well there is a case working its way through an appeals court (lower
than our national Supreme Court) right now. COVID is overshadowing this whole thing of course. Prior to COVID it was front and centre in
people's minds. It was a minor issue in the last election (2021) and if the next election (expect statistically in about 15 months due to the minority government) happens with COVID fading as a pandemic and more endemic than I expect it will be an issue again.

Which case is this? Can I assume that it's an appeal court, someone is appealing a judgment against them, because that's how appeals usually work.
So someone got charged with a crime (presumably etering the country
illegally?) and convicted, and is appealing that conviction?

Or does Canada allow double jeopardy?

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

Another case of perspective. Many believe people who do this to be "country sh
ping" which to them invalidates their claim to be refugees. Others don't have at view.

Same here. Jeff's opinion is that this shopping to reach the US border
from a country we don't share borders with is ok while others of us
question it.


* SLMR 2.1a * Shh! Be vewy qwiet! I'm hunting wuntime ewwows!
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

ylum. Whereas immigrants apply and are approved based on merit. Unlike the US
e filter our immigration applicants through the country's needs for certain jo
sectors that are under-manned by existing Canadians. If we need doctors and an
pplicant is qualified, they get approved. If we need engineers of a certain ty
and an applicant is qualified, they get approved, etc. If an applicant can't ll a sector that needs people their application doesn't get approved. This is w most of the western world does it but not the US. It works out well for Cana
because immigrants generally have employment lined up (or are already working
n that field as a resident).

How America does it is what leads a lot of people to question what our government is up to since they are not doing things this smarter way.

In addition to that, another thing that makes me question it is being
related to someone, whose politics are similar to Jeff's, who makes
frequent trips to Central America to encourage potential immigrants and
coach them on what to do when they get here. This person would not travel anywhere that was actually dangerous.


* SLMR 2.1a * "Ummm, trouble with grammar have I? Yes!" --Yoda
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

On 20 Dec 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

Another case of perspective. Many believe people who do this to be "coun sh
ping" which to them invalidates their claim to be refugees. Others don't at view.

Same here. Jeff's opinion is that this shopping to reach the US border from a country we don't share borders with is ok while others of us question it.

The only question that matters is whether it's safe for them to return to
their home country. If they're in your country claiming asylum, they're your problem. It doesn't matter how they got there.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 20 Dec 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

In addition to that, another thing that makes me question it is being related to someone, whose politics are similar to Jeff's, who makes frequent trips to Central America to encourage potential immigrants and coach them on what to do when they get here. This person would not
travel anywhere that was actually dangerous.

Our state department, and especially the CIA, have a pretty good idea of
which areas in the world are plagued by violence. This is part of the
screening process; if it turns out someone's lying about where they're from
or how dangerous it is for them to return home, they get the boot.

I would guess that your relative is either setting these migrants up for failure or advising them when they're already on the move.

Just last week, 12 missionaries (11 Americans and a Canadian, I believe) escaped from being held hostage by the "400 Mawozo" gang in Haiti.
Apparently, gang members pinned in their van with two other vehicles and kidnapped them and took them hostage. The gang either demanded, or were preparing to demand, $1 million per hostage. The missionaries escaped at
night and walked 10 miles through gang territory to safety, carrying two
small children with them.

I'll bet you don't think Haiti is all that dangerous, either.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

You specifically said "conservatives showing hostility and resentment That is what isn't a thing here. It is a majority of Canadians left, right and in between wishing their government to end the queue jumpin Not "conservatives showing hostility and resentment".

Expressing resentment is hostility. Not violent hostility, but hostility nonetheless.

Again, you said conservatives I said no, it is everyone.

No. There is a big difference between refugees and immigrants.

Not really. You may have different means of dealing with different
classes of immigrant, but anyone entering Canada and living there permanently, by whatever means, is an immigrant.

Well that is your opinion, but in Canada (where this conversation is about) they are two legally different things and viewed by the general populace as two very different things.

What skills is Nova Scotia seeking as they try to attract immigrants?

Nova Scotia doesn't have any main industries or business sectors, just a little of everything. The one single area that stands out in need is care of the elderly. Nova Scotia has an older population (I think we have more octogenarians per capita than any other province).
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/10/25 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1:105/420)

Which case is this? Can I assume that it's an appeal court, someone is appealing a judgment against them, because that's how appeals usually work. So someone got charged with a crime (presumably etering the country illegally?) and convicted, and is appealing that conviction?

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canada-supreme-court-hear-appeal-us-asy lum-seeker-pact-2021-12-16/

They (refugee advocates) one in Federal Court. Gov appealed and won in Federal Appeals Court, refugee advocates appealing to Supreme Court of Canada.

JT> Or does Canada allow double jeopardy?

No.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/10/25 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1:105/420)

Same here. Jeff's opinion is that this shopping to reach the US border from a country we don't share borders with is ok while others of us question it.

It's a recent phenomenon of the left in many Western nations. There are holdouts (most Scandinavian countries, Hungary, Czech Republic etc). It doesn't make sense to do and is traditionally not how most nations of the world behaved regardless of politics. But here we are.

Things will change when governments do. I suspect things will change for you in November 2022. Then again RINOs could keep the status quo going.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/10/25 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1:105/420)

How America does it is what leads a lot of people to question what our government is up to since they are not doing things this smarter way.

I had to laugh when Trump was Pres (lots of TDS in Canada as you can imagine) and was talking about immigration reform to a system that served America's needs, so many Canadian pundits in the media would slag him for it. And I thought, you idiots, he's describing our system which you have no problem with!
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/10/25 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1:105/420)

On 21 Dec 2021, Doug McComber said the following...

You specifically said "conservatives showing hostility and resen That is what isn't a thing here. It is a majority of Canadians l right and in between wishing their government to end the queue j Not "conservatives showing hostility and resentment".

Expressing resentment is hostility. Not violent hostility, but hostil nonetheless.

Again, you said conservatives I said no, it is everyone.

Not everyone, it would seem.

No. There is a big difference between refugees and immigrants.

Not really. You may have different means of dealing with different classes of immigrant, but anyone entering Canada and living there permanently, by whatever means, is an immigrant.

Well that is your opinion, but in Canada (where this conversation is about) they are two legally different things and viewed by the general populace as two very different things.

That is the actal definition of an immigrant. Refugees are a subset of immigrants. I realize that the law treats them differently, as I noted, but they are all immigrants.

What skills is Nova Scotia seeking as they try to attract immigrants?

Nova Scotia doesn't have any main industries or business sectors, just a little of everything. The one single area that stands out in need is
care of the elderly. Nova Scotia has an older population (I think we
have more octogenarians per capita than any other province).

And refugees cannot fill these roles?

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 21 Dec 2021, Doug McComber said the following...

Which case is this? Can I assume that it's an appeal court, someone i appealing a judgment against them, because that's how appeals usually work. So someone got charged with a crime (presumably etering the cou illegally?) and convicted, and is appealing that conviction?

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canada-supreme-court-hear-appeal-us lum-seeker-pact-2021-12-16/
They (refugee advocates) one in Federal Court. Gov appealed and won in Federal Appeals Court, refugee advocates appealing to Supreme Court of Canada.

It would seem that this counters your claim that "everyone" is resentful of
the refugees.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

Then why do you oppose allowing Central American refugees seeking asylum into the country?

Biden has gone back to the Trump Era policy to hold these Central American refugees within our closest neighboring country of Mexico until their claims for asylum can be heard.

Which is infinity better for them, this is also better for the Biden administration due to the horrific images of massive overcrowding, but Biden has his own-self and his liberal advisors for this catastrophic clusterf*ck.

Kamala Harris has been a disaster with her quest to find root causes, it
does not take a rocket scientist to figure this out but indeed it take someone helluva lot smarter then this VP who has chosen to take a independent approach find alternative explanations that have led to nowhere.

She was sent to the border, where does she go? 800 miles from where those horrific images of overcrowding were taken. It is like she does not want to acknowledge that the problem exists. or (it's as if) if it's out of sight and out of mind then therefore needs not be of any concern.

. ______ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿
_[]_³³Äij³ ³ Fidonet ³ ³FSX Net³ ³ T R U M P ³ ³ Another Message ³
{ NET 267 ³ ³1:267/150³ ³21:1/127³ ³ 2 0 2 4 ³ ³ by Gregory ³
/ 00ÄÄÄÄ00'-¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄÄ00ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ00ÄÄÄÙ

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Capital Station BBS * telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)

On 21 Dec 2021, Gregory Deyss said the following...

Then why do you oppose allowing Central American refugees seeking asy into the country?

Biden has gone back to the Trump Era policy to hold these Central
American refugees within our closest neighboring country of Mexico until their claims for asylum can be heard.

Not willingly. The courts decided that Biden somehow improperly terminated
the program.

Which is infinity better for them, this is also better for the Biden administration due to the horrific images of massive overcrowding, but Biden has his own-self and his liberal advisors for this catastrophic clusterf*ck.

This is not better for them, much less infinitely better. There are virtually no resources for them in Mexico.

Kamala Harris has been a disaster with her quest to find root causes, it does not take a rocket scientist to figure this out but indeed it take someone helluva lot smarter then this VP who has chosen to take a independent approach find alternative explanations that have led to nowhere.

The root cause is not simply a desire to live in the US. That alone does not qualify one for asylum. The refugees coming here are fleeing violence and persecution in their home countries. What, in your opinion, is the root cause of that violence and persecution, and what can be done to solve it? Turning away refugees is not a solution to the problem; it's only addressing the symptoms of the problem.

She was sent to the border, where does she go? 800 miles from where
those horrific images of overcrowding were taken. It is like she does
not want to acknowledge that the problem exists. or (it's as if) if it's out of sight and out of mind then therefore needs not be of any concern.

Why does she need to go to where the overcrowding is to acknowledge its existence? More likely, she went to the headquarters of the people managin
the current situation to get information from them.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

Just last week, 12 missionaries (11 Americans and a Canadian, I believe) escaped from being held hostage by the "400 Mawozo" gang in Haiti. Apparently, gang members pinned in their van with two other vehicles and kidnapped them and took them hostage. The gang either demanded, or were preparing to demand, $1 million per hostage. The missionaries escaped at night and walked 10 miles through gang territory to safety, carrying two small children with them.

I'll bet you don't think Haiti is all that dangerous, either.

No, I think Haiti is plenty dangerous for people who are not Haitian. I
watch the news.


* SLMR 2.1a * "The goal of socialism is communism." - V. Lenin
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

I had to laugh when Trump was Pres (lots of TDS in Canada as you can imagine) a
d was talking about immigration reform to a system that served America's needs,
so many Canadian pundits in the media would slag him for it. And I thought, you
idiots, he's describing our system which you have no problem with!

Meanwhile, here, several of our TDS-suffering left-leaners were probably
using Canada as an example of how it should be done while bashing Trump. :)


* SLMR 2.1a * Peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

She was sent to the border, where does she go? 800 miles from where those horrific images of overcrowding were taken. It is like she does not want to acknowledge that the problem exists. or (it's as if) if it's out of sight and out of mind then therefore needs not be of any concern.

Probably a little of this, a little of that.


* SLMR 2.1a * Peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

The root cause is not simply a desire to live in the US. That alone does not qualify one for asylum. The refugees coming here are fleeing violence and persecution in their home countries. What, in your opinion, is the root cause of that violence and persecution, and what can be done to solve it? Turning away refugees is not a solution to the problem; it's only addressing the symptoms of the problem.

Not having Secretaries of State like Hillary Rodham Clinton would be a
start as far as what can solve it in the future.


* SLMR 2.1a * Peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

On 21 Dec 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

The root cause is not simply a desire to live in the US. That alone does qualify one for asylum. The refugees coming here are fleeing violence an persecution in their home countries. What, in your opinion, is the root of that violence and persecution, and what can be done to solve it? Turn away refugees is not a solution to the problem; it's only addressing the symptoms of the problem.

Not having Secretaries of State like Hillary Rodham Clinton would be a start as far as what can solve it in the future.

Oh? What did Tillerson and/or Pompeo do to resolve the root cause(s) of the problem?

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 21 Dec 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

I'll bet you don't think Haiti is all that dangerous, either.

No, I think Haiti is plenty dangerous for people who are not Haitian. I watch the news.

It's plenty dangerous for people who are Haitian, too.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

Hello Doug,

Not really. You may have different means of dealing with different
classes of immigrant, but anyone entering Canada and living there
permanently, by whatever means, is an immigrant.

Well that is your opinion, but in Canada (where this conversation is about)
they are two legally different things and viewed by the general populace as
two very different things.

There used to be Americans who dodged the draft living in Canada.
But President Jimmy Carter granted them a pardon thus allowing them
to come back home.

What skills is Nova Scotia seeking as they try to attract immigrants?

Nova Scotia doesn't have any main industries or business sectors, just a little of everything. The one single area that stands out in need is care of the elderly. Nova Scotia has an older population (I think we have more octogenarians per capita than any other province).

Omicron will take care of them. Then young people will have room,
and legions of immigrants will flock to Nova Scotia. And then all
those French-speaking older Nova Scotians that remain will have
to learn a new language ...

--Lee

--
What beer drinkers drink when they're not drinking beer

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Doug,

How America does it is what leads a lot of people to question what our
government is up to since they are not doing things this smarter way.

I had to laugh when Trump was Pres

I had to cry (for my country) when Trump was prez ...

(lots of TDS in Canada as you can imagine)

If only we could deport the orange clown to Canada ...

and was talking about immigration reform to a system that served America's needs, so many Canadian pundits in the media would slag him for it. And I thought, you idiots, he's describing our system which you have no problem with!

Reagan solved the problem by granting them all amnesty.
Trump could have done the same. But nooooo. He had to build
a wall. And how much wall did he get built? Nine miles.

Hell. That is just a walk in the park for immigrants.
Trump should have simply opened the gates wide for all
to come in. No passport needed.

--Lee

--
If PBS won't do it, who will?

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Not having Secretaries of State like Hillary Rodham Clinton would be a start as far as what can solve it in the future.

Oh? What did Tillerson and/or Pompeo do to resolve the root cause(s) of the problem?

I don't remember either of them bragging about their handling of Central American quite like HRC did in her memoirs... at least, the original
printings. Once what she took credit for went south, that part
mysteriously disappeared from future printings.


* SLMR 2.1a * litterate: (adj.) Able to write, but only writes garbage.
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

On 22 Dec 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

Not having Secretaries of State like Hillary Rodham Clinton would b start as far as what can solve it in the future.

Oh? What did Tillerson and/or Pompeo do to resolve the root cause(s) of problem?

I don't remember either of them bragging about their handling of Central American quite like HRC did in her memoirs... at least, the original printings. Once what she took credit for went south, that part mysteriously disappeared from future printings.

Of course not. Their memoirs haven't been released yet.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

The root cause is not simply a desire to live in the US. That alone does not qualify one for asylum. The refugees coming here are fleeing
violence and persecution in their home countries. What, in your opinion,

There's nothing stopping their alleged assailaint(s) from crossing the border right behind them; the violence is welcome to spill over into our country.

But if the media doesn't say it, then it ain't true ;)

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

Hello Mike,

Just last week, 12 missionaries (11 Americans and a Canadian, I believe)
escaped from being held hostage by the "400 Mawozo" gang in Haiti.
Apparently, gang members pinned in their van with two other vehicles and
kidnapped them and took them hostage. The gang either demanded, or were
preparing to demand, $1 million per hostage. The missionaries escaped at
night and walked 10 miles through gang territory to safety, carrying two
small children with them.

I'll bet you don't think Haiti is all that dangerous, either.

No, I think Haiti is plenty dangerous for people who are not Haitian. I watch the news.

Haiti is also dangerous for people who are Haitian. Which is why they
all want to come to America. Preferably Florida.

--Lee

--
Show me what democracy looks like! / This is what demcracy looks like!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Again, you said conservatives I said no, it is everyone.

Not everyone, it would seem.

Close enough.

What skills is Nova Scotia seeking as they try to attract immigr

Nova Scotia doesn't have any main industries or business sectors, jus little of everything. The one single area that stands out in need is care of the elderly. Nova Scotia has an older population (I think we have more octogenarians per capita than any other province).

And refugees cannot fill these roles?

Who knows. But as I stated earlier, in Canada we seek skilled (labour or professional) immigrants to fill needs. Whereas we take refugees regardless of if they can even work let alone fill needed vacancies.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/10/25 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1:105/420)

It would seem that this counters your claim that "everyone" is resentful of the refugees.

That's not my claim at all. That is YOUR claim about what you say I said. I didn't. I didn't say resentful and I didn't say everyone. I said the majority (~70% nationally) don't like the queue jumping. You insist on interpreting that as "everyone is resentful". That's your problem not mine. In the media biz they call that "spin". You're good at it.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/10/25 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1:105/420)

On 21 Dec 2021, Gregory Deyss said the following...

Then why do you oppose allowing Central American refugees seekin into the country?

Biden has gone back to the Trump Era policy to hold these Central American refugees within our closest neighboring country of Mexico un their claims for asylum can be heard.

Not willingly. The courts decided that Biden somehow improperly
terminated the program.

WASHINGTON The Supreme Court on Tuesday refused to block a court ruling ordering the Biden administration to reinstate a Trump-era policy that forces people to wait in Mexico while seeking asylum in the U.S.

With the three liberal justices in dissent, the court said the administration likely violated federal law in its efforts to rescind the program informally known as Remain in Mexico.

The justices said in their unsigned decision that the Biden administration appeared to act arbitrarily and capriciously by rescinding the policy,
formally known as the Migrant Protection Protocols.

This is not better for them, much less infinitely better. There are virtually no resources for them in Mexico.

Do feel to donate money to https://give.unrefugees.org/
if you so choose.

Why does she need to go to where the overcrowding is to acknowledge its existence? More likely, she went to the headquarters of the people
managin the current situation to get information from them.

Headquarters... Nope try again.
Harris, who was accompanied by Department of Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas, U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., and U.S. Rep. Veronica Escobar, D-El Paso, visited the El Paso Border Patrol station and the El Paso del Norte Port of Entry, and met with representatives of non-governmental organizations that help immigrants during her four-hour trip to the border city.

. ______ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿
_[]_³³Äij³ ³ Fidonet ³ ³FSX Net³ ³ T R U M P ³ ³ Another Message ³
{ NET 267 ³ ³1:267/150³ ³21:1/127³ ³ 2 0 2 4 ³ ³ by Gregory ³
/ 00ÄÄÄÄ00'-¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄÄ00ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ00ÄÄÄÙ

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Capital Station BBS * telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)

On 22 Dec 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...

The root cause is not simply a desire to live in the US. That alone d not qualify one for asylum. The refugees coming here are fleeing violence and persecution in their home countries. What, in your opini

There's nothing stopping their alleged assailaint(s) from crossing the border right behind them; the violence is welcome to spill over into our country.

Do you have evidence of this happening, or is it just hypothetical?

Do you not think that if the refugees' assailants followed them, harassing
them all the way from Central America to the US, that they would not bring
that up in a screening?

And why would Central American gangs give up the sweet gig they've got terrorizing people where they're at to trek all the way to the US and try
their luck here?

It definitely seems like you're having to resort to making up hypothetical situations to back up your points.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 23 Dec 2021, Doug McComber said the following...

Again, you said conservatives I said no, it is everyone.

Not everyone, it would seem.

Close enough.

Hold that thought.

What skills is Nova Scotia seeking as they try to attract i

Nova Scotia doesn't have any main industries or business sectors little of everything. The one single area that stands out in ne care of the elderly. Nova Scotia has an older population (I thin have more octogenarians per capita than any other province).

And refugees cannot fill these roles?

Who knows. But as I stated earlier, in Canada we seek skilled (labour or professional) immigrants to fill needs. Whereas we take refugees regardless of if they can even work let alone fill needed vacancies.

So Nova Scotia is in need only of skilled labor?

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 23 Dec 2021, Doug McComber said the following...

It would seem that this counters your claim that "everyone" is resent of the refugees.

That's not my claim at all. That is YOUR claim about what you say I
said. I didn't. I didn't say resentful and I didn't say everyone. I
said the majority (~70% nationally) don't like the queue jumping. You insist on interpreting that as "everyone is resentful". That's your problem not mine. In the media biz they call that "spin". You're good at it.

It was indeed your claim. You exact words, in fact, were "Again, you said conservatives I said no, it is everyone."

It's not me trying to spin back my words, but you.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 23 Dec 2021, Gregory Deyss said the following...

Biden has gone back to the Trump Era policy to hold these Centra American refugees within our closest neighboring country of Mexi their claims for asylum can be heard.

Not willingly. The courts decided that Biden somehow improperly terminated the program.

WASHINGTON The Supreme Court on Tuesday refused to block a court ruling ordering the Biden administration to reinstate a Trump-era policy that forces people to wait in Mexico while seeking asylum in the U.S.

[...]

The justices said in their unsigned decision that the Biden
administration appeared to act arbitrarily and capriciously by
rescinding the policy, formally known as the Migrant Protection
Protocols.

That's pretty much what I said. The Biden administration didn't provide a
good enough reason for rescinding the program. I believe that has been rectified.

This is not better for them, much less infinitely better. There are virtually no resources for them in Mexico.

Do feel to donate money to https://give.unrefugees.org/
if you so choose.

I do donate to charity to help the less-well-off in other countries. That's
not a valid argument to support your statement that having them remain in Mexico is better for them.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

Who knows. But as I stated earlier, in Canada we seek skilled (labour professional) immigrants to fill needs. Whereas we take refugees regardless of if they can even work let alone fill needed vacancies.

So Nova Scotia is in need only of skilled labor?

I wouldn't know. I know we need doctors. I know the farms use temporary foreign workers (an official federal government program) because the farming
season here is short. But there isn't a lot of demand for unskilled workers in say retail/fast food. Outside of that as I said, I wouldn't know.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/10/25 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1:105/420)

That's not my claim at all. That is YOUR claim about what you say I said. I didn't. I didn't say resentful and I didn't say everyone. I said the majority (~70% nationally) don't like the queue jumping. You insist on interpreting that as "everyone is resentful". That's your problem not mine. In the media biz they call that "spin". You're good it.

It was indeed your claim. You exact words, in fact, were "Again, you said conservatives I said no, it is everyone."

Okay spin master, lol, the point again is it isn't all conservatives it is a wide cross section of Canadians and they aren't resentful. You can try to paint it as otherwise but people see through that.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/10/25 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1:105/420)

On 24 Dec 2021, Doug McComber said the following...

It was indeed your claim. You exact words, in fact, were "Again, you conservatives I said no, it is everyone."

Okay spin master, lol, the point again is it isn't all conservatives it
is a wide cross section of Canadians and they aren't resentful. You can try to paint it as otherwise but people see through that.

So now you're saying that the majority of Canadians don't resent the "queue jumpers?" Interesting. Seems like it wouldn't be much of a problem, then.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

There's nothing stopping their alleged assailaint(s) from crossing th border right behind them; the violence is welcome to spill over into country.

Do you have evidence of this happening, or is it just hypothetical?

There's evidence of it being possible. It's carless to wait for a catastophe.

And why would Central American gangs give up the sweet gig they've got terrorizing people where they're at to trek all the way to the US and try their luck here?

It's racist to say that Central American gangs are terrorizing people. I
prefer to refer to them as humans, and they've already proven capable of trekking on up.

It definitely seems like you're having to resort to making up
hypothetical situations to back up your points.

Making up hypothetical situations saves lives. It's part of being ready.

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Okay spin master, lol, the point again is it isn't all conservatives it is a wi
e cross section of Canadians and they aren't resentful. You can try to paint it
as otherwise but people see through that.

But, but, but Jeff needs to be able to assign an "-ism" to those ~70% who
don't like queue jumpers. You are not being fair! :)


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Hello Aaron,

There's nothing stopping their alleged assailaint(s) from

crossing th

border right behind them; the violence is welcome to spill over

into

country.

Do you have evidence of this happening, or is it just hypothetical?

There's evidence of it being possible.

Elvis is alive. So is Michael Jackson. Your point?

It's carless to wait for a catastophe.

I saw Elvis in one of his last live performances, in Baton Rouge.
Fortunately for me, I was not carless. It was rainy, and after the
concert as I was walking to my car in the parking lot a lady with
an umbrella asked me what I thought about the show. I told her
Elvis sucked, as he was grossly overweight and only mouthed the
first few words of each song he attempted to sing. She chased
after me with that umbrella of hers as a security guard laughed
his head off, and I barely managed to escape with my life by
getting into my car before that umbrella of hers came smashing
down ...

And why would Central American gangs give up the sweet gig they've

got

terrorizing people where they're at to trek all the way to the US and

try

their luck here?

It's racist to say that Central American gangs are terrorizing people. I prefer to refer to them as humans, and they've already proven capable of trekking on up.

You must be referring to the Sandinista gang, the husband and wife
president and vice president of Nicaragua.

It definitely seems like you're having to resort to making up
hypothetical situations to back up your points.

Making up hypothetical situations saves lives. It's part of being ready.

GWB's excuse for a pre-emptive first strike on Iraq never made any
sense to anybody but him.

--Lee

--
Lock him up!

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I saw Elvis in one of his last live performances, in Baton Rouge. Fortunately for me, I was not carless. It was rainy, and after the
concert as I was walking to my car in the parking lot a lady with
an umbrella asked me what I thought about the show. I told her

Were you an Elvis fan prior to the concert, or was this just for the chick?

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
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Hello Aaron,

I saw Elvis in one of his last live performances, in Baton Rouge.
Fortunately for me, I was not carless. It was rainy, and after the
concert as I was walking to my car in the parking lot a lady with
an umbrella asked me what I thought about the show. I told her

Were you an Elvis fan prior to the concert, or was this just for the chick?

Everybody was a fan of the King of Rock 'N' Roll. But he could no
longer perform like he used to. Too fat. Out of shape. Could barely
walk on stage without dropping. Only mouthed a few words to each
song. Really sad. The women loved him, and went wild seeing him, as
could be expected. But his performance still sucked.

At the time, I was a reporter for a newspaper. So I was not allowed to
chase after chicks. But they were free to chase after me. The security
guard in the parking lot laughed his head off, and chose to do nothing
in regards to protecting me from harm ...

--Lee

--
More Doctors Smoke Camels than Any Other Cigarette

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On 23 Dec 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...

There's nothing stopping their alleged assailaint(s) from crossi border right behind them; the violence is welcome to spill over country.

Do you have evidence of this happening, or is it just hypothetical?

There's evidence of it being possible. It's carless to wait for a catastophe.

A lack of evidence of it happening is not evidence of it being possible.

You continue to fail to recognize that two groups of people enter the country two different ways. One group enters and does their best to stay hidden,
while the other group enters and surrenders to authorities as soon as
possible. The great hordes you seem to feel this sarcastic compassion for are the latter group. As their method of entry involves turning themselves in as soon as possible, it's very unlikely that anyone abusing their vulnerability would "come in right behind them," as that would mean putting themselves at
the mercy of US officials. At best, if their claim for asylum is immediately denied, they're deported, and at worst, they're pointed out and prosecuted.

You really don't think these things through, do you?

And why would Central American gangs give up the sweet gig they've go terrorizing people where they're at to trek all the way to the US and their luck here?

It's racist to say that Central American gangs are terrorizing people. I prefer to refer to them as humans, and they've already proven capable of trekking on up.

Central American gangs ARE terrorizing people, and it's not racist to say so. "Central American" refers to the gangs, not the people in them. The people in them could be from anywhere, but they're operating in Central America.

"Trekking on up" is not the cakewalk you seem to think it is, especially if they're planning on seeking asylum. Our border is not as "open" as you claim, and well over half of those seeking asylum are deported immediately.

It definitely seems like you're having to resort to making up hypothetical situations to back up your points.

Making up hypothetical situations saves lives. It's part of being ready.

BS. "The sky is falling!" is another hypothetical situation you may have
heard of.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

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On 26 Dec 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

But, but, but Jeff needs to be able to assign an "-ism" to those ~70% who don't like queue jumpers. You are not being fair! :)

Nah, Doug just has to keep changing his story while calling *me* the spin-master. Or has that escaped your attention?

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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But, but, but Jeff needs to be able to assign an "-ism" to those ~70% don't like queue jumpers. You are not being fair! :)

Nah, Doug just has to keep changing his story while calling *me* the spin-master. Or has that escaped your attention?

First joke of 2022 I've heard. Nice one Jeff!

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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A lack of evidence of it happening is not evidence of it being possible.

You don't need evidence of something being possible; you just need to know whether it's possible or not.

compassion for are the latter group. As their method of entry involves turning themselves in as soon as possible, it's very unlikely that
anyone abusing their vulnerability would "come in right behind them," as that would mean putting themselves at the mercy of US officials. At

Their assailants are not necessarily at the mercy of US officials. There are backdoors. Their assailant(s) can possibly have a tourist visa. Their assailants can already be here waiting for them to arrive. Their
assailant(s) can have associates already here. You're the one who's looking at everything through Don Lemon's lens and not thinking things through. You're assuming the best scenario, and it's great to think positive, but in this case let's not make their problems ours.

Central American gangs ARE terrorizing people, and it's not racist to

United States American gangs are terrorizing people too. Philadelphia had more than 500 homicides last year. Is it better to get killed in Pennsylvania
rather than El Salvador?

"Trekking on up" is not the cakewalk you seem to think it is, especially if they're planning on seeking asylum. Our border is not as "open" as
you claim, and well over half of those seeking asylum are deported immediately.

"Deported" simply means "Try Again." For example, there's a particular
criminal from Mexico who has been deported 10 times. The 10th time that he entered illegally, he raped a 13 year old.

https://nypost.com/2016/12/31/mexican-man-charged-with-rape-had-been-deported-1 -times

Making up hypothetical situations saves lives. It's part of being rea

BS. "The sky is falling!" is another hypothetical situation you may have heard of.

Does the army not prepare for stuff? Do they just take stuff as it goes? Cops "make stuff up" to solve crimes. Surveillance team members set up cameras to cover all angles; they don't just leave areas unmonitored with a "nobody uses that door" attitude.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
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On 02 Jan 2022, Doug McComber said the following...

But, but, but Jeff needs to be able to assign an "-ism" to those don't like queue jumpers. You are not being fair! :)

Nah, Doug just has to keep changing his story while calling *me* the spin-master. Or has that escaped your attention?

First joke of 2022 I've heard. Nice one Jeff!

Read back, man. It's all there.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

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On 02 Jan 2022, Aaron Thomas said the following...

A lack of evidence of it happening is not evidence of it being possib

You don't need evidence of something being possible; you just need to
know whether it's possible or not.

So when you said, "There's evidence of it being possible," you were lying?

compassion for are the latter group. As their method of entry involve turning themselves in as soon as possible, it's very unlikely that anyone abusing their vulnerability would "come in right behind them," that would mean putting themselves at the mercy of US officials. At

Their assailants are not necessarily at the mercy of US officials. There are backdoors. Their assailant(s) can possibly have a tourist visa. Their assailants can already be here waiting for them to arrive. Their assailant(s) can have associates already here. You're the one who's looking at everything through Don Lemon's lens and not thinking things through. You're assuming the best scenario, and it's great to think positive, but in this case let's not make their problems ours.

If they have tourist visas, then they're here legally. When you said that
their assilants would come in "right behind them," the presumption was that
the assailant would use the same system as the assailed, and that's why the means of entry of the assailed should be closed. Now that you're saying
that's not the case, it's pretty obvious that the US asylum system is sound.

Central American gangs ARE terrorizing people, and it's not racist to

United States American gangs are terrorizing people too. Philadelphia
had more than 500 homicides last year. Is it better to get killed in Pennsylvania rather than El Salvador?

It's true that the US has gangs, too, but that's comparing apples and
oranges. Gangs today are pretty tame compared to the prohibition-era gangs
that we once had, and the Central American gangs are more similar to the
latter (although still worse).

"Trekking on up" is not the cakewalk you seem to think it is, especia if they're planning on seeking asylum. Our border is not as "open" as you claim, and well over half of those seeking asylum are deported immediately.

"Deported" simply means "Try Again." For example, there's a particular criminal from Mexico who has been deported 10 times. The 10th time that
he entered illegally, he raped a 13 year old.

That may be, but with their fingerprints, etc., on file from their first attempt at abusing the asylum system, they're unlikely to try that route
again.

This puts them squarely in the second group, who try to come in and remain hidden. And I agree, that group is a problem. But the first group, that willingly surrenders in hopes of receiving asylum, is not.

Making up hypothetical situations saves lives. It's part of bein

BS. "The sky is falling!" is another hypothetical situation you may h heard of.

Does the army not prepare for stuff? Do they just take stuff as it goes? Cops "make stuff up" to solve crimes. Surveillance team members set up cameras to cover all angles; they don't just leave areas unmonitored
with a "nobody uses that door" attitude.

Yeah, but they don't just make up stuff like "What if extraterrestrial aliens invaded tomorrow?" The stuff they prepare for is both possible and plausible, whereas your hypothetical scenarios are flawed by a fundamental misunderstanding of the current situation.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

Hello Jeff,

There's nothing stopping their alleged assailaint(s) from

crossi

border right behind them; the violence is welcome to spill

over

country.

Do you have evidence of this happening, or is it just

hypothetical?

There's evidence of it being possible. It's carless to wait for a
catastophe.

A lack of evidence of it happening is not evidence of it being possible.

Joe Manchin claims people are abusing the child tax credit, buying
drugs with the savings. He also claims people are abusing sick leave
by going hunting with their time off. That is why he is so abused
to Biden's programs. Even with no evidence to back up his claims, it
makes no difference. See how that works?

Ditto with claims about immigration. Whether true or not makes no
difference ...

You continue to fail to recognize that two groups of people enter the country
two different ways. One group enters and does their best to stay hidden, while the other group enters and surrenders to authorities as soon as possible. The great hordes you seem to feel this sarcastic compassion for are
the latter group. As their method of entry involves turning themselves in as
soon as possible, it's very unlikely that anyone abusing their vulnerability
would "come in right behind them," as that would mean putting themselves at
the mercy of US officials. At best, if their claim for asylum is immediately
denied, they're deported, and at worst, they're pointed out and prosecuted.

One more time. They are not undocumented workers. They are illegal
aliens. Got it? No more of this leftist politically correct nonsense. Unnerstan'? Good.

We need a wall. Just like Pink Floyd said. We don't need no education.
We need no thought control! Hey Teacher! Leave our kids alone!

You really don't think these things through, do you?

Pink Floyd did all the thinking for us.

--Lee

--
Because not everyone likes licorice

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On 03 Jan 2022, Lee Lofaso said the following...

One more time. They are not undocumented workers. They are illegal
aliens. Got it? No more of this leftist politically correct nonsense. Unnerstan'? Good.

If they're undocumented workers, or undocumented anything really, they are "illegal aliens."

If they are waiting to apply for asylum and have not yet been picked up by authorities, they are "illegal aliens."

However, once they are picked up by federal authorities, who are the only ones with the power to deport them, they can claim asylum and they are not "illegal aliens." They are, however, in federal custody.

If their request for asylum is denied, then they are once again "illegal aliens." If their request is approved, then they are not "illegal aliens" as long as they are going through the asylum process. If the final outcome of the asylum process is that they are granted asylum, then they are not "illegal aliens." If the final outcome of the asylum process is that they are denied asylum, then they are once again "illegal aliens," albeit quite
well-documented by this time.

Illegal aliens are deported. Legal aliens are not. Extraterrestrial aliens
are not, either, but only because we lack the technology.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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But, but, but Jeff needs to be able to assign an "-ism" to those ~70% who >MP> don't like queue jumpers. You are not being fair! :)

Nah, Doug just has to keep changing his story while calling *me* the spin-master. Or has that escaped your attention?

He has added more details, based on questions received, but the core of the story has not changed... race has not been playing a part in the discussion, and that most people (~70%) are not against returning to the stated
standards.

You keep claiming that most people must not want it, but I think an
important point is that "most people" are not among the group of
politicians making the decision and therefore are not involved whenever it comes time to decide whether or not to continue making exceptions.

Granted, I have not noticed Doug pointing this out, but you seem smart
enough to understand that bit, but you keep poking at it anyway.


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On 03 Jan 2022, Mike Powell said the following...

Nah, Doug just has to keep changing his story while calling *me* the spin-master. Or has that escaped your attention?

He has added more details, based on questions received, but the core of the story has not changed... race has not been playing a part in the discussion, and that most people (~70%) are not against returning to the stated standards.

He claimed that "everyone" was against allowing the "queue jumpers" in. In fact, everyone is not against it.

You keep claiming that most people must not want it, but I think an important point is that "most people" are not among the group of politicians making the decision and therefore are not involved whenever
it comes time to decide whether or not to continue making exceptions.

I never claimed that "most people" favor allowing the "queue jumping;" I only claimed that given the existence of a court challenge proves that not "everyone" is against it.

Granted, I have not noticed Doug pointing this out, but you seem smart enough to understand that bit, but you keep poking at it anyway.

Politicians occasionally take public opinion into account, and they also sometimes take court decisions into account.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

A lack of evidence of it happening is not evidence of it being p

You don't need evidence of something being possible; you just need to know whether it's possible or not.

So when you said, "There's evidence of it being possible," you were
lying?

No, because there IS evidence of it being possible.

why the means of entry of the assailed should be closed. Now that you're saying that's not the case, it's pretty obvious that the US asylum
system is sound.

It's just peachy.

It's true that the US has gangs, too, but that's comparing apples and oranges. Gangs today are pretty tame compared to the prohibition-era
gangs that we once had, and the Central American gangs are more similar
to the latter (although still worse).

You're saying that central American gangs are more deadly than USA-based gangs, but nationality is ambiguous; MS-13 (established in El Salvador) is killing people in New York & in Maryland, for example. Just wait till they catch wind that their enemies are being flown into Harrisburg, and see what happens.

"Deported" simply means "Try Again." For example, there's a particula criminal from Mexico who has been deported 10 times. The 10th time th he entered illegally, he raped a 13 year old.

That may be, but with their fingerprints, etc., on file from their first attempt at abusing the asylum system, they're unlikely to try that route again.

I know I said "they'll follow em right in," but what I meant was "they'll find em here if they want to."

with a "nobody uses that door" attitude.

Yeah, but they don't just make up stuff like "What if extraterrestrial aliens invaded tomorrow?" The stuff they prepare for is both possible
and plausible, whereas your hypothetical scenarios are flawed by a fundamental misunderstanding of the current situation.

So for a gang member to follow (or search for) their enemy in the USA, that's unplausible? As unplausible as martian activity?

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
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Nah, Doug just has to keep changing his story while calling *me* the spin-master. Or has that escaped your attention?

He has added more details, based on questions received, but the core of the story has not changed... race has not been playing a part in the discussion, and that most people (~70%) are not against returning to the stated standards.

He claimed that "everyone" was against allowing the "queue jumpers" in. In fact, everyone is not against it.

70% is close enough to "everyone" that, if they all got a vote, it wouldn't
be happening.

Your buddy Al has used all-encompassing language in the past and you
thought that was ok because it shouldn't be taken literally. Make up your mind.


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On 03 Jan 2022, Aaron Thomas said the following...

A lack of evidence of it happening is not evidence of it be

You don't need evidence of something being possible; you just ne know whether it's possible or not.

So when you said, "There's evidence of it being possible," you were lying?

No, because there IS evidence of it being possible.

What's this evidence, then?

why the means of entry of the assailed should be closed. Now that you saying that's not the case, it's pretty obvious that the US asylum system is sound.

It's just peachy.

Indeed.

It's true that the US has gangs, too, but that's comparing apples and oranges. Gangs today are pretty tame compared to the prohibition-era gangs that we once had, and the Central American gangs are more simil to the latter (although still worse).

You're saying that central American gangs are more deadly than USA-based gangs, but nationality is ambiguous; MS-13 (established in El Salvador)
is killing people in New York & in Maryland, for example. Just wait till they catch wind that their enemies are being flown into Harrisburg, and see what happens.

Most gang violence in the US is inter-gang violence; this is not true in Central America.

"Deported" simply means "Try Again." For example, there's a part criminal from Mexico who has been deported 10 times. The 10th ti he entered illegally, he raped a 13 year old.

That may be, but with their fingerprints, etc., on file from their fi attempt at abusing the asylum system, they're unlikely to try that ro again.

I know I said "they'll follow em right in," but what I meant was
"they'll find em here if they want to."

They can try. Of course, they very well may not succeed.

with a "nobody uses that door" attitude.

Yeah, but they don't just make up stuff like "What if extraterrestria aliens invaded tomorrow?" The stuff they prepare for is both possible and plausible, whereas your hypothetical scenarios are flawed by a fundamental misunderstanding of the current situation.

So for a gang member to follow (or search for) their enemy in the USA, that's unplausible? As unplausible as martian activity?

That's a level of vindictiveness that I doubt the Central American gangs
have. To follow a victim all the way to the US, sneak in, and then hunt them down? Really? They're much more likely to find a new victim, any you're being silly.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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On 04 Jan 2022, Mike Powell said the following...

70% is close enough to "everyone" that, if they all got a vote, it wouldn't be happening.

It's still not "everyone."

Your buddy Al has used all-encompassing language in the past and you thought that was ok because it shouldn't be taken literally. Make up
your mind.

Did you think that Al's language should be taken literally? Make up your mind.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

Your buddy Al has used all-encompassing language in the past and you thought that was ok because it shouldn't be taken literally. Make up your mind.

Did you think that Al's language should be taken literally? Make up your mind.

I never actually saw Doug say everyone. I have seen Al continue to claim
that he never said something, and you defend him, even when what he said is quoted back to him word for word.

The one thing Al has going for him is that his post are sometimes only quasi-coherent, where Doug's are usually pretty clear. That gives Al more wiggle room later.


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On 05 Jan 2022, Mike Powell said the following...

Your buddy Al has used all-encompassing language in the past and yo thought that was ok because it shouldn't be taken literally. Make your mind.

Did you think that Al's language should be taken literally? Make up your mind.

I never actually saw Doug say everyone.

I see.

I have seen Al continue to claim
that he never said something, and you defend him, even when what he said is quoted back to him word for word.

So by analogy, you're now claiming that Doug never said it? Doug hasn't
denied it. And if that's not what you're claiming, then what is the relevance of this?

The one thing Al has going for him is that his post are sometimes only quasi-coherent, where Doug's are usually pretty clear. That gives Al
more wiggle room later.

Al's posts are quite coherent, but probably don't make much sense to the brainwashed.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 21 Dec 2021, Doug McComber said the following...

Again, you said conservatives I said no, it is everyone.

Nice try at gaslighting, though.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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I have seen Al continue to claim
that he never said something, and you defend him, even when what he s is quoted back to him word for word.

So by analogy, you're now claiming that Doug never said it? Doug hasn't denied it. And if that's not what you're claiming, then what is the relevance of this?

Pretty sure I said "most" not "everyone" and I definitely recall citing the 70% national average.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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On 06 Jan 2022, Doug McComber said the following...

I have seen Al continue to claim
that he never said something, and you defend him, even when what is quoted back to him word for word.

So by analogy, you're now claiming that Doug never said it? Doug hasn denied it. And if that's not what you're claiming, then what is the relevance of this?

Pretty sure I said "most" not "everyone" and I definitely recall citing the 70% national average.

Nope, you said, "it's not just conservatives, it's everyone."

I checked.

Jeff.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

I have seen Al continue to claim
that he never said something, and you defend him, even when what he is quoted back to him word for word.

So by analogy, you're now claiming that Doug never said it? Doug hasn't denied it. And if that's not what you're claiming, then what is the relevance of this?

Pretty sure I said "most" not "everyone" and I definitely recall citing the 70
national average.

I am pretty sure the spin to "everyone" came from someone else, after you
cited the 70% average (which is where I got that number from).


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