On 03-14-22 09:35, Alexander Koryagin <=-
spoke to Alan Ianson about Ukraine National Anthem <=-

I say it once again -- it is foolishess and shame to listen only one side of the conflict. Don't forget, that the main slogan of Russia's invasion is justice and stopping the war in Donbass. Russia is not
going to repeat infamous American invasion in Veitnam with carpet bombing, where Americans killed millions of people and ran with it.

What you are saying above is in direct contradiction to the observed
facts on the ground. If all Putin wanted to do was to stop the
Ukrainians from trying to recover the territory in Donbass, then all he
would have had to do would have been to occupy that area and call it
done.

Also, Russia is doing carpet bombing of civilian areas -- hospitals,
schools, apartment buildings -- none of which are even near any military forces. Those areas are being reduced to rubble or at least
uninhabitable.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)




... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 01:11:03, 15 Mar 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

Hi, Dale Shipp!
I read your message from 15.03.2022 01:02

AK>> I say it once again -- it is foolishess and shame to listen
AK>> only one side of the conflict. Don't forget, that the main
AK>> slogan of Russia's invasion is justice and stopping the war
AK>> in Donbass. Russia is not going to repeat infamous
AK>> American invasion in Veitnam with carpet bombing, where
AK>> Americans killed millions of people and ran with it.
DS> What you are saying above is in direct contradiction to the
DS> observed facts on the ground. If all Putin wanted to do was to
DS> stop the Ukrainians from trying to recover the territory in
DS> Donbass, then all he would have had to do would have been to
DS> occupy that area and call it done.

I fully agreed that the operation of "cleaning the whole Ukraine" is
crazy and utterly wrong. If I try to predict the events I would say that
Pitin will understand that his plan is impossible to realise. And he
will not storm such big cities as Kiev, Kharkov because doing it means grounding them -- the thing which was never in the plan.

So he will continue bomb the Ukraine military forces until the peace
agreement will be singed in. As I said before the fighting with Russian
troops is foolish idea for Ukraine. It should allow them enter and just
show them either contempt or love. For instane, peaceful protest as it
was in Chehoslovakia in 1967. The country would be spared from
destruction and thousands life spared. Western sanctions will do the remaining.

DS> Also, Russia is doing carpet bombing of civilian areas --
DS> hospitals, schools, apartment buildings -- none of which are
DS> even near any military forces. Those areas are being reduced
DS> to rubble or at least uninhabitable.

Look at the Vietnam chronicles to learn what is carpet bombing and don't repeat fakes.

Bye, Dale!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Alexander,

And he
will not storm such big cities as Kiev, Kharkov because doing it means grounding them -- the thing which was never in the plan.

Ahhh ... so you know the plan ... tell us what the plan is about...

And he is not destroying Kiev. That is what you say right?

For instane, peaceful protest as it
was in Chehoslovakia in 1967. The country would be spared from
destruction and thousands life spared. Western sanctions will do the remaining.

I was 17 when that happened in 1968 ... Russian troops knew of nothing, they were told they were going on combined military exercices so when they arrived in Prague they had not been prepped to fight and kill. That mistake was not made now ... years of desinformation and propaganda to clear the mind from logic thinking, make everybody believe as an unquestioned fact that there was a Ukrainian started problem in Donbas while it was merely a Russian slow burning fuse of some years to justify the events of the moment.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220222
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

���ண� �६�窠, Dale Shipp.
�� ��ᠫ� 15.03.22 1:02:

Also, Russia is doing carpet bombing of civilian areas --
hospitals, schools, apartment buildings -- none of which are even
near any military forces. Those areas are being reduced to rubble
or at least uninhabitable.

Not true. Carpet bombing is an American practice, they don't know any other way. If the Russians had started doing that, it would have been over long ago. It is useless to explain to you. You will probably understand only when you learn the bitter truth about your government's treatment of you.

--
2:50/700 aka ex.2:5020/612
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: 27 ��� � ����... ��-�-�� �� �������... (2:50/700)

Hello, Oleg!

Tuesday March 15 2022 12:34, you wrote to Dale Shipp:

rubble or at least uninhabitable.

Not true. Carpet bombing is an American practice, they don't know any other way. If the Russians had started doing that, it would have been

Please check the facts: Russia was bombing Syrian cities with weapons from Soviet era.
FAB bombs, to be exact.
The same thing we see in Ukraine.

Americans have more advanced weapons, laser guided bombs.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

���ண� �६�窠, Dmitry Protasoff.
�� ��ᠫ� 15.03.22 23:53:

Not true. Carpet bombing is an American practice, they don't know
any other way. If the Russians had started doing that, it would
have been

Please check the facts: Russia was bombing Syrian cities with
weapons from Soviet era. FAB bombs, to be exact. The same thing we
see in Ukraine.

And you, Brutus...
Russia in principle does not use bombs ;) there are no such plans.
I mean civilian objects, if anything. And about ukrop military facilities - they don't deserve more than that, the old warehouses need to be disposed of somewhere ;) Calibers are exclusively high-precision strikes, and they are not bombs ;)
Fly to Syria, buddy, you'll see for yourself, it's safer there now.

Americans have more advanced weapons, laser guided bombs.

Let them hope ;)
While I watch the hair on their asses move, because we do not take our hand off the pulse in Syria ;)
For their fleet in Middle-earth is blocked ;)

--
2:50/700 aka ex.2:5020/612
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: 27 ��� � ����... ��-�-�� �� �������... (2:50/700)

Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 15.03.2022 11:51

ak>> For instane, peaceful protest as it
ak>> was in Chehoslovakia in 1967. The country would be spared
ak>> from destruction and thousands life spared. Western
ak>> sanctions will do the remaining.
WD> I was 17 when that happened in 1968 ... Russian troops knew of
WD> nothing, they were told they were going on combined military
WD> exercices so when they arrived in Prague they had not been prepped to
WD> fight and kill. That mistake was not made now ... years of
WD> desinformation and propaganda to clear the mind from logic thinking,
WD> make everybody believe as an unquestioned fact that there was a
WD> Ukrainian started problem in Donbas while it was merely a Russian slow
WD> burning fuse of some years to justify the events of the
WD> moment.

Peaceful resistance was very possible, but too many people in Ukraine
wanted to spill some blood.

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

On 03-15-22 10:12, Alexander Koryagin <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Ukraine National Ant <=-

Also, Russia is doing carpet bombing of civilian areas --
hospitals, schools, apartment buildings -- none of which are
even near any military forces. Those areas are being reduced
to rubble or at least uninhabitable.

Look at the Vietnam chronicles to learn what is carpet bombing and
don't repeat fakes.

The term carpet bombing may not be 100% accurate, but change the word
"carpet" to "indiscriminate" and what I say is now accurate -- and by no
means fake. There are many pictures of neighborhood blocks reduced to
rubble, of apartment buildings destroyed, hospitals and schools bombed
-- with no military target any where near.

Here are some headlines and links to the full articles. If you have
trouble reading them -- send me an email address and I will do a copy of
the stories with pictures for you (and for anyone else who wants them).

Kyiv residents on edge after strikes devastate civilian homes

https://tinyurl.com/urlin1

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/14/kyiv-ukraine-russia-airstrikes-civilian-homes/?utm_campaign=wp_evening_edition&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_evening&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F36516c4%2F622face59d2fda34e7d0c5c3%2F59a7a638ae7e8a47a668346c%2F11%2F54%2F622face59d2fda34e7d0c5c3


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Pregnant woman whose photo showed tragedy of hospital bombing dies with her baby

https://tinyurl.com/urlin2

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/14/pregnant-woman-baby-death-mariupol-maternity-hospital/?utm_campaign=wp_evening_edition&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_evening&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F36516c8%2F622face59d2fda34e7d0c5c3%2F59a7a638ae7e8a47a668346c%2F22%2F54%2F622face59d2fda34e7d0c5c3


Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 01:25:31, 16 Mar 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

On 03-15-22 12:34, Oleg Nazaroff <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Ukraine National Ant <=-

Also, Russia is doing carpet bombing of civilian areas --
hospitals, schools, apartment buildings -- none of which are even
near any military forces. Those areas are being reduced to rubble
or at least uninhabitable.

Not true. Carpet bombing is an American practice, they don't know any

From a time long ago. I recognize now that the term has a specific
meaning for what was used during the Viet Nam war. What I should have
said instead of "carpet" was "indiscriminate"

See my other message this packet for some examples that illustrate what
I meant.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 01:28:33, 16 Mar 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

Hi, Dale Shipp!
I read your message from 16.03.2022 01:15

DS> Kyiv residents on edge after strikes devastate civilian homes
DS> https://tinyurl.com/urlin1

So they say about shell strikes of Kiev

Now Russian troops are 25 kilometers from Kiev. Do you believe that they
have aimed long range cannons just to shoot some civilians in Kiev?
There is no proves that it were Russian shells -- most probably it were
the small shells of the Ukrainian air-defence system -- a very likely explanation, especially when we don't see shells-holes. But for
information war everything is useful.

Bye, Dale!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

���ண� �६�窠, Dale Shipp.
�� ��ᠫ� 16.03.22 1:25:

From a time long ago. I recognize now that the term has a
specific meaning for what was used during the Viet Nam war. What
I should have said instead of "carpet" was "indiscriminate"

But you said "carpet bombing. Exactly. But the selectivity, pardon me, is in manual mode. There's no one to elect on military targets, and we don't bomb civilians. You probably can't imagine the full range of Ukraine's disinformation capabilities. For example, they plant explosives in residential buildings on the roofs and top floors of civilian buildings and blow them up when our aircraft fly over, even on the side of the city. They should make films! They do, and you stare and take it as holy truth. We already have films of this from drones - material for the court.


--
2:50/700 aka ex.2:5020/612
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: 27 ��� � ����... ��-�-�� �� �������... (2:50/700)

���ண� �६�窠, Dale Shipp.
�� ��ᠫ� 16.03.22 1:15:

On 03-15-22 10:12, Alexander Koryagin <=- -=> spoke to

Dale Shipp about Ukraine National Ant <=-

Also, Russia is doing carpet bombing of civilian areas --
hospitals, schools, apartment buildings -- none of which are even
near any military forces. Those areas are being reduced to
rubble or at least uninhabitable.

Look at the Vietnam chronicles to learn what is carpet bombing
and don't repeat fakes.

The term carpet bombing may not be 100% accurate, but change the
word "carpet" to "indiscriminate" and what I say is now accurate
-- and by no means fake. There are many pictures of neighborhood
blocks reduced to rubble, of apartment buildings destroyed,
hospitals and schools bombed -- with no military target any where
near. Here are some headlines and links to the full articles. If
you have trouble reading them -- send me an email address and I
will do a copy of the stories with pictures for you (and for
anyone else who wants them). Kyiv residents on edge after strikes devastate civilian homes https://tinyurl.com/urlin1 https://www.washingtonpost. com/world/2022/03/14/kyiv-ukraine-russia-airstrikes-civilian-homes/
?
utm_campaign=wp_evening_edition&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newslet ter&wpisrc=nl_evening&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost. com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F36516c4%2F622face59d2fda34e7d0c5c3%2F59a7a638ae7e 8a47a668346c%2F11%2F54%2F622face59d2fda34e7d0c5c3 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Pregnant woman whose photo showed
tragedy of hospital bombing dies with her baby
https://tinyurl.com/urlin2
https://www.washingtonpost. com/world/2022/03/14/pregnant-woman-baby-death-mariupol-maternity-h ospital/? utm_campaign=wp_evening_edition&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newslet ter&wpisrc=nl_evening&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost. com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F36516c8%2F622face59d2fda34e7d0c5c3%2F59a7a638ae7e 8a47a668346c%2F22%2F54%2F622face59d2fda34e7d0c5c3
Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)
... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 01:25:31, 16 Mar 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 --- Maximus/NT 3.01 * Origin: Owl's
Anchor (1:261/1466)

--
2:50/700 aka ex.2:5020/612
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: 27 ��� � ����... ��-�-�� �� �������... (2:50/700)

���ண� �६�窠, Dale Shipp.
�� ��ᠫ� 16.03.22 1:15:

Here are some headlines and links to the full articles. If you
have trouble reading them -- send me an email address and I will
do a copy of the stories with pictures for you (and for anyone
else who wants them).

Who is the source of the news? Think about it with an open mind. This is what is called propaganda.

--
2:50/700 aka ex.2:5020/612
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: 27 ��� � ����... ��-�-�� �� �������... (2:50/700)

Now Russian troops are 25 kilometers from Kiev. Do you believe that they
have aimed long range cannons just to shoot some civilians in Kiev?

Cannons? Probaly not. They have been using missiles to hit Kyiv and other cities all over Ukraine.

There is no proves that it were Russian shells -- most probably it were
the small shells of the Ukrainian air-defence system -- a very likely explanation, especially when we don't see shells-holes. But for
information war everything is useful.

A very unlikely explanation indeed!

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, Oleg!

Wednesday March 16 2022 04:53, you wrote to me:

And you, Brutus...

Caesar? Happy to see you alive!

Russia in principle does not use bombs ;) there are no such plans.

Who told you that? Putin? :)

I mean civilian objects, if anything. And about ukrop military
facilities - they don't deserve more than that, the old warehouses
need to be disposed of somewhere ;) Calibers are exclusively

I saw Grozny, how we did there.

high-precision strikes, and they are not bombs ;) Fly to Syria, buddy, you'll see for yourself, it's safer there now.

I've been in Syria 4 times before the war, BTW. It's not safe to go there now. Russians needs to pay bribe about ~100USD to get there if you don't work for some gov agency/company.

Americans have more advanced weapons, laser guided bombs.

Let them hope ;)
While I watch the hair on their asses move, because we do not take our

You can't see that.

hand off the pulse in Syria ;) For their fleet in Middle-earth is
blocked ;)

Blocked? US forces are still in Syria if you don't know that.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, alexander!

Wednesday March 16 2022 09:59, you wrote to Ward Dossche:

Peaceful resistance was very possible, but too many people in Ukraine wanted to spill some blood.

In Russia.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 17.03.2022 01:53

ak>> Peaceful resistance was very possible, but too many people
ak>> in Ukraine wanted to spill some blood.
DP> In Russia.

And because of that Ukrainian troops came to Donbass? Who had entered
Donbass first and started a bloody civil war?

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

On 03-16-22 11:32, Alexander Koryagin <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Ukraine National Ant <=-

I read your message from 16.03.2022 01:15

Kyiv residents on edge after strikes devastate civilian homes https://tinyurl.com/urlin1

And did you read the articles? And look at the pictures?

So they say about shell strikes of Kiev

Now Russian troops are 25 kilometers from Kiev. Do you believe that
they have aimed long range cannons just to shoot some civilians in
Kiev?

Whether they are aiming them or not -- they are hitting civilian
targets.

There is no proves that it were Russian shells --

When one sees a missle or a bomb coming in from the air, it is unlikely
that it is anything else.

most probably
it were the small shells of the Ukrainian air-defence system -- a very likely explanation, especially when we don't see shells-holes.

We do see shell holes and explosions.

But for information war everything is useful.

And truth is the most useful.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 01:06:00, 17 Mar 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

On 03-16-22 13:00, Oleg Nazaroff <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Ukraine National Ant <=-

From a time long ago. I recognize now that the term has a
specific meaning for what was used during the Viet Nam war. What
I should have said instead of "carpet" was "indiscriminate"

But you said "carpet bombing. Exactly.

And I corrected the term.

But the selectivity, pardon me,
is in manual mode. There's no one to elect on military targets,
and we don't bomb civilians.

The Russians are bombing civilian targets. Entire neighborhoods have
been reduced to rubble. Apartment buildings are empty shells.

You probably can't imagine the
full range of Ukraine's disinformation capabilities. For
example, they plant explosives in residential buildings on
the roofs and top floors of civilian buildings and blow
them up when our aircraft fly over, even on the side of the
city. They should make films! They do, and you stare and
take it as holy truth. We already have films of this from
drones - material for the court.

That is almost too ridulous to warrent a response -- but there is no
reason that the Ukranians would blow up their buildings.

The reporting that I can see is not from Ukranian sources. It is from
multiple national war-zone reporters from many credible news
organizations. Too bad that you cannot see the same reporting.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 01:12:00, 17 Mar 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

On 03-16-22 14:58, Oleg Nazaroff <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Ukraine National Ant <=-

Here are some headlines and links to the full articles. If you
have trouble reading them -- send me an email address and I will
do a copy of the stories with pictures for you (and for anyone
else who wants them).

Who is the source of the news? Think about it with an open
mind. This is what is called propaganda.

You can answer that for yourself. Take a look at the articles, or at
least read the URL for the headline. The reporting on what is happening
in Ukraine comes from multiple credible sources. If you have access to internet, you could search for similar articles. It is not propaganda.
It is fact. It is news.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 01:14:56, 17 Mar 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

On 03-16-22 20:18, Oleg Nazaroff <=-
spoke to Alan Ianson about Ukraine National Anthem <=-

You have no other sources than Nazi propaganda from
Ukraine, at least admit it to yourself.

A. there is no significant Nazi presence in Ukraine.

B. Our sources on events in Ukraine are international journalists who
are embedded in Ukraine. These are from multiple well respected news organizations.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 02:20:07, 17 Mar 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

Hi, Dale Shipp!
I read your message from 17.03.2022 01:01

AK>> Now Russian troops are 25 kilometers from Kiev. Do you
AK>> believe that they have aimed long range cannons just to
AK>> shoot some civilians in Kiev?
DS> Whether they are aiming them or not -- they are hitting civilian
DS> targets.

Well tell me the reason why Russian strikes in Kiev should differ from American strikes in Baghdad or Belgrade? The only thing is true --
nobody targets civilians on purpose.

Bye, Dale!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Well tell me the reason why Russian strikes in Kiev should differ from American strikes in Baghdad or Belgrade? The only thing is true --
nobody targets civilians on purpose.

Have you ever seen any video-footage of American strikes in Baghdad or Belgrade? I bet not because it does not exist ...

Is there video-footage of Russian airborne vehicles striking targets in Ukraine? You bet ... it's all over ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220222
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

���ண� �६�窠, Dale Shipp.
�� ��ᠫ� 17.03.22 1:06:

Bad news for you - yes, we are bad guys, very bad ;) in a western way, of course selective ;) I answered above how long communication with the West is extremely unhelpful.
--
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���ண� �६�窠, Dale Shipp.
�� ��ᠫ� 17.03.22 1:12:

Here's a Western look for you. Not fresh, but there are no others - today your "free" press perfectly removes articles by your own journalists who have a different opinion.
https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/neo-nazis-far-right-ukraine/

--
2:50/700 aka ex.2:5020/612
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: 27 ��� � ����... ��-�-�� �� �������... (2:50/700)

���ண� �६�窠, Dale Shipp.
�� ��ᠫ� 17.03.22 2:33:

B. Our sources on events in Ukraine are international journalists
who are embedded in Ukraine. These are from multiple well
respected news organizations.

More specifically, please. Your Western press disowned the journalist who died there recently.


--
2:50/700 aka ex.2:5020/612
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: 27 ��� � ����... ��-�-�� �� �������... (2:50/700)

Here's a Western look for you. Not fresh, but there are no others - today your "free" press perfectly removes articles by your own journalists who
have a different opinion. https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/neo-nazis-far-right-ukraine/

How is it removed when it is right there on thenation.com?

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

���ண� �६�窠, Alan Ianson.
�� ��ᠫ� 17.03.22 3:27:

How is it removed when it is right there on thenation.com?

Al, I don't want to offend you, but there's no other way to answer. I know English fluently enough and I write extremely competently so that my opponents understand. But you either do not understand what is written in white on black, or you pretend. I repeat for the alternatively gifted - TODAY your press totally censors publications and the appearance of "dissident" journalists in them - either an accident or an oversight of the CIA curators.

--
2:50/700 aka ex.2:5020/612
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: 27 ��� � ����... ��-�-�� �� �������... (2:50/700)

How is it removed when it is right there on thenation.com?

Al, I don't want to offend you, but there's no other way to answer. I know
English fluently enough and I write extremely competently so that my opponents >understand. But you either do not understand what is written in white on black
or you pretend. I repeat for the alternatively gifted - TODAY your press totally censors publications and the appearance of "dissident" journalists in them - either an accident or an oversight of the CIA curators.

You talk a lot, but you don't say anything.

Nothing is removed. The black and white is all there for your perusal, all the pretty stuff along with the not so pretty stuff as you can see in the case of the article you linked.

Your statement that "it" is removed is simply false.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

���ண� �६�窠, Alan Ianson.
�� ��ᠫ� 17.03.22 6:30:

Nothing is removed. The black and white is all there for your
perusal, all the pretty stuff along with the not so pretty stuff
as you can see in the case of the article you linked.

Try to search for yourself. I'm not going to state the obvious.

--
2:50/700 aka ex.2:5020/612
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: 27 ��� � ����... ��-�-�� �� �������... (2:50/700)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Thursday March 17 2022 09:01, you wrote to me:

Peaceful resistance was very possible, but too many people
in Ukraine wanted to spill some blood.

In Russia.

And because of that Ukrainian troops came to Donbass? Who had entered

Ukrainian troops were in Donbass! It was part of their country. They were standing near the border with Russia.

Donbass first and started a bloody civil war?

No, it was Igor Strelkov and his fighters from Russia who where sent there to start the conflict.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

On 03-17-22 09:43, Alexander Koryagin <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Ukraine National Ant <=-

Now Russian troops are 25 kilometers from Kiev. Do you
believe that they have aimed long range cannons just to
shoot some civilians in Kiev?

Whether they are aiming them or not -- they are hitting civilian
targets.

Well tell me the reason why Russian strikes in Kiev should differ from American strikes in Baghdad or Belgrade? The only thing is true --
nobody targets civilians on purpose.

When there is no military target any where around, it would certainly
seem that they are targeting the civilian dwellings on purpose.

In the past few days the Russians bombed a building being used by
civilians as a shelter. That building was full of families with
children. On both sides of the building ground the Russian word for
children was written in large enough size to be seen by a satellite,
even more so by the Russian plane that dropped the bombs.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)



... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 00:29:42, 18 Mar 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

On 03-17-22 12:22, Oleg Nazaroff <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Ukraine National Ant <=-

Here's a Western look for you. Not fresh, but there are no
others - today your "free" press perfectly removes articles
by your own journalists who have a different opinion. https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/neo-nazis-far-right-ukraine/

I am not aware of the press censuring articles. Show me where you see
that?

The link you quote does describe Nazi type groups in Ukraine, and is
three years old. What it does not say is how large those groups are,
nor how much influence they have on Ukranian politics. To think that
the Jewish President of Ukraine would be supporting Nazi groups is a bit insane. BUT, as a free democracy he would allow them to exist. I don't
see that sort of freedom of expression coming from Russia.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 00:34:26, 18 Mar 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

On 03-17-22 12:27, Oleg Nazaroff <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Ukraine National Ant <=-

B. Our sources on events in Ukraine are international journalists
who are embedded in Ukraine. These are from multiple well
respected news organizations.

More specifically, please. Your Western press disowned the
journalist who died there recently.

Sources please? The only journalist I know of who died there recently
was from FOX News, and his death was reported with sorrow by multiple
news outlets. To the best of my knowledge, he was not disowned by any
western press organizations.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 00:39:43, 18 Mar 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 17.03.2022 10:53

ak>> Well tell me the reason why Russian strikes in Kiev should
ak>> differ from American strikes in Baghdad or Belgrade? The
ak>> only thing is true -- nobody targets civilians on purpose.
WD> Have you ever seen any video-footage of American strikes in
WD> Baghdad or Belgrade? I bet not because it does not exist ...

Where had you been? CNN led live reports about bombing Baghdad bombing
(well as they did in Kabul, Tripoli, Belgrade). In defiance Baghdad even didn't turn off the street lights -- it was a hummer time for CNN! In
Belgrade NATO demolished everything it wanted despite numerous civilians killed. Often people surrounded vital objects by live chains. But it
didn't help.

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 18.03.2022 00:15

ak>> And because of that Ukrainian troops came to Donbass? Who
ak>> had entered
DP> Ukrainian troops were in Donbass! It was part of their country.
DP> They were standing near the border with Russia.

It is not true. Ukrainian troops had been sent to crush Donbass a time
after the coup.

ak>> Donbass first and started a bloody civil war?
DP> No, it was Igor Strelkov and his fighters from Russia who where
DP> sent there to start the conflict.

The fighters that came from Russia would not have any sense without
local fighters.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Dale Shipp!
I read your message from 18.03.2022 00:25

AK>> Well tell me the reason why Russian strikes in Kiev should
AK>> differ from American strikes in Baghdad or Belgrade? The
AK>> only thing is true -- nobody targets civilians on purpose.
DS> When there is no military target any where around, it would
DS> certainly seem that they are targeting the civilian dwellings
DS> on purpose. In the past few days the Russians bombed a building
DS> being used by civilians as a shelter. That building was full
DS> of families with children. On both sides of the building
DS> ground the Russian word for children was written in large
DS> enough size to be seen by a satellite, even more so by the
DS> Russian plane that dropped the bombs.

That's why you should be able to see the Russian version of the event.

Bye, Dale!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Have you ever seen any video-footage of American strikes in
Baghdad or Belgrade? I bet not because it does not exist ...

Where had you been? CNN led live reports about bombing Baghdad bombing (well as they did in Kabul, Tripoli, Belgrade).

Please read "show me the video-footage of American strikes in Baghdad or Belgrade?" .... no video showing American planes? No? That proves my point then.

If you can deny the bombing of a maternity/children hospital and a theatre against all facts to the contrary then I can deny American bombings also.

'America' didn't even bomb Tripoli. It refused to.

In
Belgrade NATO demolished everything it wanted despite numerous civilians killed. Often people surrounded vital objects by live chains. But it
didn't help.

As for Belgrade of whatever, I had 2 family members who were 'Blue Berrets" in the multinational UN peace keeping force there.

Some of you guys have so much been cut-off from reality for so long you wouldn't recognise a fact if it stared you in the eyes.

Take care,

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220222
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

That's why you should be able to see the Russian version of the event.

The 'news' has only one version ... there is no such thing as 'alternative news' ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220222
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello Oleg!

17 Mar 22 12:27, you wrote to Dale Shipp:

B. Our sources on events in Ukraine are international journalists
who are embedded in Ukraine. These are from multiple well
respected news organizations.

More specifically, please. Your Western press disowned the journalist
who died there recently.

Where are you getting this?

The New York Times, NPR, The Guardian, The BBC, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, Politico, Al Jazeera, The Los Angeles Times, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, all have reported on the death of the two Fox News journalists in Ukraine. I skimmed over a bunch of those articles and saw no signs of them being "disowned"





Mike


... SCOM: Set Cobol-Only Mode
=== GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: War Ensemble - warensemble.com - Appleton, WI (1:154/30)

���ண� �६�窠, Mike Miller.
�� ��ᠫ� 18.03.22 13:57:

The New York Times, NPR, The Guardian, The BBC, The Wall Street
Journal, The Washington Post, Politico, Al Jazeera, The Los
Angeles Times, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, all have reported on the
death of the two Fox News journalists in Ukraine. I skimmed over a
bunch of those articles and saw no signs of them being "disowned"

I do not see a single author's photo, from Melitopol, for example. I don't look there?

--
2:50/700 aka ex.2:5020/612
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: 27 ��� � ����... ��-�-�� �� �������... (2:50/700)

On 03-18-22 10:06, Alexander Koryagin <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Ukraine National Ant <=-

on purpose. In the past few days the Russians bombed a building
being used by civilians as a shelter. That building was full
of families with children. On both sides of the building
ground the Russian word for children was written in large
enough size to be seen by a satellite, even more so by the
Russian plane that dropped the bombs.

That's why you should be able to see the Russian version of the event.

Since I assume you can see the Russian version of the event -- how about informing us what that version said. We can then see how it fits with
the western version and the pictures of the theater that was destroyed.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 00:42:09, 19 Mar 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Friday March 18 2022 09:32, you wrote to me:

Ukrainian troops were in Donbass! It was part of their country.
They were standing near the border with Russia.

It is not true. Ukrainian troops had been sent to crush Donbass a time
after the coup.

No. They were in Donbass because it was Ukranian territory.

Donbass first and started a bloody civil war?

No, it was Igor Strelkov and his fighters from Russia who where
sent there to start the conflict.

The fighters that came from Russia would not have any sense without
local fighters.

So you are admitting that Russia sent military units into Ukraine, although we had local law which was signed by Putin that Ukraine is our ally?

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 18.03.2022 11:12

ak>>WD> Have you ever seen any video-footage of American
ak>> strikes inWD> Baghdad or Belgrade? I bet not because it
ak>> does not exist ... Where had you been? CNN led live reports
ak>> about bombing Baghdad bombing (well as they did in Kabul,
ak>> Tripoli, Belgrade).
WD> Please read "show me the video-footage of American strikes in
WD> Baghdad or Belgrade?" .... no video showing American planes?
WD> No? That proves my point then.

Of course videos are very sensitive for the American image and you
cannot find them. A scare remnants of this you can see in internet

https://tinyurl.com/yckgaju3

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 18.03.2022 11:34

ak>> That's why you should be able to see the Russian version of
ak>> the event.
WD> The 'news' has only one version ... there is no such thing as
WD> 'alternative news' ...

May be in paradise. But on Earth it ridiculous to tell that one side of
the conflict always tells the truth. Or to tell the western media lies
never.

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Dale Shipp!
I read your message from 19.03.2022 00:40


DS>> on purpose. In the past few days the Russians bombed a building
DS>> being used by civilians as a shelter. That building was full of
DS>> families with children. On both sides of the building ground the
DS>> Russian word for children was written in large enough size to be
DS>> seen by a satellite, even more so by the Russian plane that
DS>> dropped the bombs.

AK>> That's why you should be able to see the Russian version of the
AK>> event.

DS> Since I assume you can see the Russian version of the event -- how
DS> about informing us what that version said. We can then see how it
DS> fits with the western version and the pictures of the theater that
DS> was destroyed.


DS>> on purpose. In the past few days the Russians bombed a building
DS>> being used by civilians as a shelter. That building was full of
DS>> families with children. On both sides of the building ground the
DS>> Russian word for children was written in large enough size to be
DS>> seen by a satellite, even more so by the Russian plane that
DS>> dropped the bombs.

AK>> That's why you should be able to see the Russian version of the
AK>> event.

DS> Since I assume you can see the Russian version of the event -- how
DS> about informing us what that version said. We can then see how it
DS> fits with the western version and the pictures of the theater that
DS> was destroyed.

Well, if you cannot read it yourself I ask your excuse and send a piece
of news from RT English. People indeed were trapped, but the information
that the theatre became a mass grave for a thousand people is false. At
the same time Russian military flatly denies that any bombing took place
at the time, and says the theatre was never at the target list. https://www.rt.com/russia/552266-mariupol-theater-civilians-survived/

-----Beginning of the citation-----
Ukraine backtracks on Mariupol theater claims

Kiev initially claimed Russian bombs had killed more than 1,000 people,
but local officials now say otherwise Ukraine backtracks on Mariupol
theater claims Ukraine has accused Russia of destroying the Mariupol
Drama Theatre, which was sheltering more than 1,000 civilians. Photo
dated March 17, 2022 (c) AFP / handout / TELEGRAM / pavlokyrylenko_donoda

More than 200 civilians have been rescued unharmed from the bombed
Mariupol Drama Theater, in Ukraine, and one injured woman has been taken
to hospital, the local deputy mayor told reporters on Friday. Initial
claims from Kiev estimated that over 1,000 people may have been killed
in what they alleged was a Russian airstrike.

Ukrainian media announced on Wednesday that the Drama Theater - located
on the main square of the city - had been struck by the Russian air
force while civilians were sheltering inside. The declaration was widely amplified by Westerners on social media.

By Thursday morning, however, reports switched to saying that those
civilians had survived, with a journalist from expat journal the Kyiv Independent calling it a "miracle."

On Friday, Deputy Mayor Sergey Orlov told Human Rights Watch that more
than 200 people have so far been rescued from the rubble unharmed, but
one woman had been taken to hospital with injuries. Earlier in the day, Ukraine's human rights commissioner, Lyudmila Denisova, told reporters
that some 1,300 civilians had been trapped inside.

Meanwhile, Mayor Vadim Boychenko told the BBC that the fighting had
reached the city center, where the theater is located.

Civilians feared trapped and killed in Mariupol theater explosion Read
more Civilians feared trapped and killed in Mariupol theater explosion

Responding to the Ukrainian accusations on Wednesday, the Russian
military said none of its planes had carried out any ground attacks in Mariupol that day, and the theater had not in any case been on its list
of targets.

"Previously, it was known from the refugees who got out of Mariupol that
the Nazis of the Azov Battalion might be holding civilians hostage in
the theater building, using the upper floors as firing points," military spokesman Major-General Igor Konashenkov said at the time. He added that
what he described as "reliable information" from locals had indicated
that the militants might have blown up the building to try to pin the
blame for any civilian deaths on Russia.

https://www.rt.com/russia/552266-mariupol-theater-civilians-survived/
----- The end of the citation -----

Bye, Dale!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

On 03-20-22 20:37, Alexander Koryagin <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Ukraine National Ant <=-

on purpose. In the past few days the Russians bombed a building
being used by civilians as a shelter. That building was full of
families with children. On both sides of the building ground the
Russian word for children was written in large enough size to be
seen by a satellite, even more so by the Russian plane that
dropped the bombs.

Since I assume you can see the Russian version of the event -- how
about informing us what that version said. We can then see how it
fits with the western version and the pictures of the theater that
was destroyed.

That's why you should be able to see the Russian version of the
event.

Well, if you cannot read it yourself I ask your excuse and send a
piece of news from RT English. People indeed were trapped, but the information that the theatre became a mass grave for a thousand people
is false.

Funny thing is the statement of "mass grave for 1000 people" was not
what the reports here said. At first they said that they did not know
how many were inside, and in the next few days it was said that just
over 100 were rescued, with no statement as to how many might still be entrapped.

At the same time Russian military flatly denies that any
bombing took place at the time, and says the theatre was never at the target list.

It may not have been on a target list, but it was certainly bombed.

-----Beginning of the citation-----
Ukraine backtracks on Mariupol theater claims

Kiev initially claimed Russian bombs had killed more than 1,000
people, but local officials now say otherwise Ukraine backtracks on Mariupol theater claims Ukraine has accused Russia of destroying the Mariupol Drama Theatre, which was sheltering more than 1,000
civilians. Photo dated March 17, 2022 (c) AFP / handout / TELEGRAM / pavlokyrylenko_donoda
More than 200 civilians have been rescued unharmed from the bombed Mariupol Drama Theater, in Ukraine, and one injured woman has been
taken to hospital, the local deputy mayor told reporters on Friday. Initial claims from Kiev estimated that over 1,000 people may have
been killed in what they alleged was a Russian airstrike.

Ukrainian media announced on Wednesday that the Drama Theater -
located on the main square of the city - had been struck by the
Russian air force while civilians were sheltering inside. The
declaration was widely amplified by Westerners on social media.

By Thursday morning, however, reports switched to saying that those civilians had survived, with a journalist from expat journal the Kyiv Independent calling it a "miracle."

On Friday, Deputy Mayor Sergey Orlov told Human Rights Watch that more than 200 people have so far been rescued from the rubble unharmed, but
one woman had been taken to hospital with injuries. Earlier in the
day, Ukraine's human rights commissioner, Lyudmila Denisova, told reporters that some 1,300 civilians had been trapped inside.

None of the reports I have heard gave a number of 1,300 -- but I could
have missed it.

Meanwhile, Mayor Vadim Boychenko told the BBC that the fighting had reached the city center, where the theater is located.

Civilians feared trapped and killed in Mariupol theater explosion Read more Civilians feared trapped and killed in Mariupol theater explosion

Responding to the Ukrainian accusations on Wednesday, the Russian military said none of its planes had carried out any ground attacks in Mariupol that day, and the theater had not in any case been on its
list of targets.

I would not have expected them to say anything else.

"Previously, it was known from the refugees who got out of Mariupol
that the Nazis of the Azov Battalion might be holding civilians
hostage in the theater building, using the upper floors as firing points," military spokesman Major-General Igor Konashenkov said at the time. He added that what he described as "reliable information" from locals had indicated that the militants might have blown up the
building to try to pin the blame for any civilian deaths on Russia.

I put that paragraph into the fake news category where it belongs.
Except for that paragraph, what you report is not in contradiction to
what I have heard -- except that the number of 1000+ has not been
confirmed.

https://www.rt.com/russia/552266-mariupol-theater-civilians-survived/ ----- The end of the citation -----

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 00:12:17, 21 Mar 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

Hello, alexander!

Sunday March 20 2022 20:37, you wrote to Dale Shipp:

https://www.rt.com/russia/552266-mariupol-theater-civilians-survived/

RT is just a fake news. I've already explained how they created fake news from my story, they idea is not to bring news to people, but to spread propaganda.


Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hi, Dale Shipp!
I read your message from 21.03.2022 01:04

<skipped>
AK>> Responding to the Ukrainian accusations on Wednesday, the Russian
AK>> military said none of its planes had carried out any ground
AK>> attacks in Mariupol that day, and the theater had not in any case
AK>> been on its list of targets.

DS> I would not have expected them to say anything else.

Yes, it also can be so. Although Americans with their sophisticated
radar equipment and event surveillance could say the truth.

Bye, Dale!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 20.03.2022 00:21

ak>> The fighters that came from Russia would not have any sense
ak>> without local fighters.
DP> So you are admitting that Russia sent military units into
DP> Ukraine, although we had local law which was signed by Putin
DP> that Ukraine is our ally?

Ukraine was an ally when Yanukovich was in power. Sending fighters in
Ukraine in the period 2014-2022 had only one purpose -- to prevent
cutting throats of the Russian population of Donbass who didn't accept
the coup in Kiev. After the people burning in Odessa it was actual.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Monday March 21 2022 15:30, you wrote to me:

without local fighters.

So you are admitting that Russia sent military units into
Ukraine, although we had local law which was signed by Putin
that Ukraine is our ally?

Ukraine was an ally when Yanukovich was in power. Sending fighters in

So we took territory from our ally?

Ukraine in the period 2014-2022 had only one purpose -- to prevent

No, the purpose was to take some territory and start major conflict in Ukraine.

cutting throats of the Russian population of Donbass who didn't accept

But no one was actaully killed before the arrival of Russia fighters.
The whole story about "cutting throats" was jus Putin's fakes.

the coup in Kiev. After the people burning in Odessa it was actual.

It was the only event which was a tradegy but not something planned in advance. We now have 1000x more civilians killed because of our invasion than people who died in single fire in Odessa.
At this single moment people are beeing killed in Mariupol because of our invasion.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, alexander!

Monday March 21 2022 15:28, you wrote to Dale Shipp:

Yes, it also can be so. Although Americans with their sophisticated
radar equipment and event surveillance could say the truth.

And Russian propaganda will say "we don't believe Amricans".
It's like Russian embassy in Ukraine which was saying: "there will be no war", but then just closed and even didn't tell to Russian citizens to leave Ukraine ASAP.


Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

On 03-21-22 15:28, Alexander Koryagin <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Ukraine National Ant <=-

Responding to the Ukrainian accusations on Wednesday, the Russian
military said none of its planes had carried out any ground
attacks in Mariupol that day, and the theater had not in any case
been on its list of targets.

I would not have expected them to say anything else.

Yes, it also can be so. Although Americans with their sophisticated
radar equipment and event surveillance could say the truth.

Except that the USA military is not there, nor would they be prone to
publish what ever intelligence they might obtain if they had access.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 00:53:15, 22 Mar 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 21.03.2022 11:49

ak>>https://www.rt.com/russia/552266-mariupol-theater-civilians-s
ak>> urvived/
DP> RT is just a fake news. I've already explained how they created
DP> fake news from my story, they idea is not to bring news to
DP> people, but to spread propaganda.

Do you think that Ukraine doesn't participate in propaganda war and
doesn't make fake news? Take for instance the claim that Russian troops
in one mouth has lost more people than they lost in Afghanistan for 10
years war. A funny propaganda news.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Do you think that Ukraine doesn't participate in propaganda war and
doesn't make fake news? Take for instance the claim that Russian troops
in one mouth has lost more people than they lost in Afghanistan for 10
years war. A funny propaganda news.

What makes you think that is propaganda? Many fallen and injured Russian soldiers have made there way to Belarus. Perhaps you can get good information from Belarus? Probably not.

I read a report today of Ukrainians being taken to Tula against their will. Separation camps they were called.

Do you know what is happening in Tula?

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 21.03.2022 15:57

ak>> the coup in Kiev. After the people burning in Odessa it
ak>> was actual.
DP> It was the only event which was a tradegy but not something
DP> planned in advance. We now have 1000x more civilians killed
DP> because of our invasion than people who died in single fire in
DP> Odessa. At this single moment people are beeing killed in Mariupol
DP> because of our invasion.

I also don't understand why Putin has thought that his "operation" could
make the situation better than it was. I only believe that this war will remind all the people that a reliance on the force should be replaced by negotiations and concessions. You should not despise your opponents,
respect their human rights even in the case they don't accept some your
orders and plans.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 21.03.2022 16:01

ak>> Yes, it also can be so. Although Americans with their
ak>> sophisticated radar equipment and event surveillance could
ak>> say the truth.
DP> And Russian propaganda will say "we don't believe Amricans".
DP> It's like Russian embassy in Ukraine which was saying: "there
DP> will be no war", but then just closed and even didn't tell to
DP> Russian citizens to leave Ukraine ASAP.

The American statement on this account would be important not for the
Russian auditory only.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Dale Shipp!
I read your message from 22.03.2022 00:51

AK>>> Responding to the Ukrainian accusations on Wednesday,
AK>>> the Russian military said none of its planes had
AK>>> carried out any ground attacks in Mariupol that day,
AK>>> and the theater had not in any case been on its list of
AK>>> targets.
DS>> I would not have expected them to say anything else.
AK>> Yes, it also can be so. Although Americans with their
AK>> sophisticated radar equipment and event surveillance could
AK>> say the truth.
DS> Except that the USA military is not there, nor would they be
DS> prone to publish what ever intelligence they might obtain if
DS> they had access.

Nevertheless their word would be important. Another confirmed story is
the missile night strike against the mall with hidden missiles launch
system.

You can not watch the video how they hide such systems in such places,
but just in case:

https://www.rt.com/russia/552408-kiev-mall-bombing-military/

Bye, Dale!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Nevertheless their word would be important. Another confirmed story is
the missile night strike against the mall with hidden missiles launch
system.

Balony!

You can not watch the video how they hide such systems in such places,
but just in case:

https://www.rt.com/russia/552408-kiev-mall-bombing-military/

You were right about lies all over the world, here is some more.

It is missiles from Russia killing/destroying in Ukraine.

How many Ukrainian missiles have you had in Russia. None?

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

https://www.rt.com/russia/552408-kiev-mall-bombing-military/

I get a response from my system this is a suspicious site.

Please use URLs from unsuspicious sites.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220222
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Tuesday March 22 2022 09:40, you wrote to me:

fake news from my story, they idea is not to bring news to
people, but to spread propaganda.

Do you think that Ukraine doesn't participate in propaganda war and doesn't make fake news? Take for instance the claim that Russian

I mean that if you post RT stories and you know that they are fake news company - why do you do that?
What's the reason?

troops in one mouth has lost more people than they lost in Afghanistan
for 10 years war. A funny propaganda news.

You don't know how much Russian troops were killed in Ukraine, that's the problem.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Tuesday March 22 2022 10:01, you wrote to me:

It was the only event which was a tradegy but not something
planned in advance. We now have 1000x more civilians killed
because of our invasion than people who died in single fire in
Odessa. At this single moment people are beeing killed in
Mariupol because of our invasion.

I also don't understand why Putin has thought that his "operation"
could make the situation better than it was. I only believe that this

Because he is delusional former KGB officer. Paranoid dictator who is even afraid of using internet.


Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Tuesday March 22 2022 10:04, you wrote to me:

And Russian propaganda will say "we don't believe Amricans".
It's like Russian embassy in Ukraine which was saying: "there
will be no war", but then just closed and even didn't tell to
Russian citizens to leave Ukraine ASAP.

The American statement on this account would be important not for the Russian auditory only.

Americans asked it's citizens to leave the country, Russian embassy was saying that they will be no war and just left.
This is how we are protecting our citizens.
That's why those stories about "protecting people of Donbass" are just empty slogans: our state just left our women ofter with children in Ukraine and stared a war without any plans for their evacuation.

It's so terrible!

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hi, Alan Ianson!
I read your message from 22.03.2022 10:01

ak>> Do you think that Ukraine doesn't participate in propaganda war
ak>> and doesn't make fake news? Take for instance the claim that
ak>> Russian troops in one mouth has lost more people than they lost in
ak>> Afghanistan for 10 years war. A funny propaganda news.

AI> What makes you think that is propaganda? Many fallen and injured
AI> Russian soldiers have made there way to Belarus. Perhaps you can
AI> get good information from Belarus? Probably not.

IMHO, due to the great superiority of Russian forces, Ukrainian troops
should have at least 5 times bigger losses. But we don't see big
Ukrainian losses in their propaganda reports.

AI> I read a report today of Ukrainians being taken to Tula against
AI> their will. Separation camps they were called.
AI> Do you know what is happening in Tula?

But I heard in Russian news that the refugees from Mariupol, for
instance, are filtered for get those military who are trying escape as civilians.

I know about almost 300 thousand new refugees from Ukraine into Russia
from the beginning of this mess. I know that the Ukrainian military who
is inside of the besieged towns is opposed to allow civilian evacuation
to the Russian side. The rumour that Ukrainian civilian refugees are
escorted to detention camps forcefully, surrounded probably by guard
dogs IMO is a fake.

Bye, Alan!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Alan Ianson!
I read your message from 22.03.2022 11:05

ak>>> Nevertheless their word would be important. Another
ak>>> confirmed story is
ak>> >the missile night strike against the mall with hidden
ak>> missiles launch >system.
AI> Balony!

The heard that Ukraine media claimed that it was some Ukrainian blogger
who published in his blog photos with that missile launch system is
hiding in the mall. The blogger was arrested.

Bye, Alan!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 22.03.2022 11:20

ak>> https://www.rt.com/russia/552408-kiev-mall-bombing-military/
WD> I get a response from my system this is a suspicious site.
WD> Please use URLs from unsuspicious sites.

Well, however this site is almost 10 years old and has a safety
certificate. Probably your provider follows a policy similar to some
antivirus programs -- they marked as contaminated or suspicious all the archives with the file crack.exe. In your case the "virus" phase is
"rt.com". ;)

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Alexander,

The heard that Ukraine media claimed that it was some Ukrainian blogger
who published in his blog photos with that missile launch system is
hiding in the mall. The blogger was arrested.

Just mentioning that if you see less and less people responding to the nonsense, it doesn't mean you reached your propaganda objective ... it just means people are losing interest in the relevance of what you burp up.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220222
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 22.03.2022 14:00

DP>>> fake news from my story, they idea is not to bring news to
DP>>> people, but to spread propaganda.

ak>> Do you think that Ukraine doesn't participate in propaganda war
ak>> and doesn't make fake news? Take for instance the claim that
ak>> Russian

DP> I mean that if you post RT stories and you know that they are fake
DP> news company - why do you do that? What's the reason?

I've never claimed that RT news are all the holy truth. I just delivered
the news from another side of the conflict. Because, it it impossible to
be unbiased listening only one side, especially the side which is ready
to tear its eye off to prove the atrocities of the opponent.

ak>> troops in one mouth has lost more people than they lost in
ak>> Afghanistan for 10 years war. A funny propaganda news.

DP> You don't know how much Russian troops were killed in Ukraine,
DP> that's the problem.

There are many bloggers in the Internet who easily tell you it, along
with other things, the Saddam Hussein's KGB rank including. But are
their numbers worth to be trust?

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 23.03.2022 09:51

ak>> The heard that Ukraine media claimed that it was some
ak>> Ukrainian blogger who published in his blog photos with
ak>> that missile launch system is hiding in the mall. The
ak>> blogger was arrested.
WD> Just mentioning that if you see less and less people responding
WD> to the nonsense, it doesn't mean you reached your propaganda
WD> objective ... it just means people are losing interest in the
relevance
WD> of what you burp up.

Well, sorry, I admit this news was unchecked. But wanted to wrote "I
heard that..." so it was an honest rumour delivered by me. ;-)

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

What makes you think that is propaganda? Many fallen and injured
Russian soldiers have made there way to Belarus. Perhaps you can
get good information from Belarus? Probably not.

IMHO, due to the great superiority of Russian forces, Ukrainian troops
should have at least 5 times bigger losses.

Those kind of losses are from misile strikes, not toe to toe combat.

I think those numbers are fairly accurate and probably conservative.

But we don't see big Ukrainian losses in their propaganda reports.

I don't doubt the Ukrainian numbers are also very high.

I know about almost 300 thousand new refugees from Ukraine into Russia
from the beginning of this mess.

There are now more than 6,000,000 displaced and 3,500,000 refugee's from Russia's invasion of Ukraine. I couldn't even guess the number of casualties.

I know that the Ukrainian military who
is inside of the besieged towns is opposed to allow civilian evacuation
to the Russian side. The rumour that Ukrainian civilian refugees are
escorted to detention camps forcefully, surrounded probably by guard
dogs IMO is a fake.

I hope you are right but we'll know in time.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

The heard that Ukraine media claimed that it was some Ukrainian blogger
who published in his blog photos with that missile launch system is
hiding in the mall. The blogger was arrested.

Really? And how many of the Ukrainian missiles have now landed in Russia?

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

There are now more than 6,000,000 displaced and 3,500,000 refugee's from Russia's invasion of Ukraine. I couldn't even guess the number of casualties.

An added disaster provoked by Russia are the problems in the Horn of Africa where like 20 million people may not get the food support they badly need and die of hunger...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220222
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello, alexander!

Wednesday March 23 2022 10:16, you wrote to me:

I mean that if you post RT stories and you know that they are
fake news company - why do you do that? What's the reason?

I've never claimed that RT news are all the holy truth. I just

RT was created to spread Russian propaganda abroad, you can check the real purpose of such organizations were " ideological subversion or active measures ... or psychological warfare" under control by KGB/FSB. Check what Yuri Bezmenov said about that:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Bezmenov

You don't know how much Russian troops were killed in Ukraine,
that's the problem.

There are many bloggers in the Internet who easily tell you it, along
with other things, the Saddam Hussein's KGB rank including. But are
their numbers worth to be trust?

As long you don't know (at not supposed to know) the truth - you cannot be sure about anything.
Baiden was right about the Invasion, Putin was lying. Now we see that clearly. But number of killed Russians is a secret information, Russian State was never very happy to disclose any secret information and they can easily lie about casualties. I don't think Baiden will help us with that :(

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

There are now more than 6,000,000 displaced and 3,500,000 refugee's from
Russia's invasion of Ukraine. I couldn't even guess the number of
casualties.

An added disaster provoked by Russia are the problems in the Horn of Africa where like 20 million people may not get the food support they badly need and die of hunger...

I know that world hunger will be an issue with so much wheat produced in Ukraine and there will be a reduction (at least) yhis year.

Is that what you mean or is there something else happening in the horn of Africa?

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

I know that world hunger will be an issue with so much wheat produced in Ukraine and there will be a reduction (at least) yhis year.

Is that what you mean or is there something else happening in the horn of Africa?

Even without the trouble in Ukraine there would already be a humanitarian disaster as it is. Droughts, crops failing ... South Sudan, Kenya, Somalia, Eritrea and Ethiopia are headed towards one of the world's largest famines ever and help will be scares.

The life of 28 million is threatened...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220222
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

On 03-23-22 09:28, Alexander Koryagin <=-
spoke to Alan Ianson about Ukraine National Ant <=-

IMHO, due to the great superiority of Russian forces, Ukrainian troops should have at least 5 times bigger losses. But we don't see big Ukrainian losses in their propaganda reports.

Why do you think that the Russian forces are superior? While it is true
that they may outnumber the Ukrainian troops, they are certainly not
making the ground gains expected by Putin.

Much of the damage being done to Ukraine is by air strikes and long
range missles. The Russian ground troops are stagnated in some places
and in other places the Ukrainian troops are pushing them back.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 01:23:59, 24 Mar 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

Why do you think that the Russian forces are superior? While it is true that they may outnumber the Ukrainian troops, they are certainly not
making the ground gains expected by Putin.

When the invasion started I figured it'd be a done deal in a matter of days, kind of like Desert Storm ... From what I can pick up they have serious problems with logistics, fighting will of the ground troops and above all no Norman Schwarkopf ...

If you read his memoir, then his whole career he had been preparing for that one war, and when it came in Kuwait he was ready.

What really surprizes me is that there is a military echelon which is willing to maintain this disaster ... obviously no-one there is aware of Sun Tzu's "The Art of War"

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220222
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 23.03.2022 11:25

ak>> There are many bloggers in the Internet who easily tell you
ak>> it, along with other things, the Saddam Hussein's KGB rank
ak>> including. But are their numbers worth to be trust?
DP> As long you don't know (at not supposed to know) the truth -
DP> you cannot be sure about anything. Baiden was right about the
DP> Invasion, Putin was lying. Now we see that clearly. But number
DP> of killed Russians is a secret information, Russian State was
DP> never very happy to disclose any secret information and they can
easily
DP> lie about casualties. I don't think Baiden will help us with
DP> that:(

Say to me - if the truth/a lie == 50/50 - what is it? ;-)

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Dale Shipp!
I read your message from 24.03.2022 01:20


AK>> IMHO, due to the great superiority of Russian forces, Ukrainian
AK>> troops should have at least 5 times bigger losses. But we don't
AK>> see big Ukrainian losses in their propaganda reports.

DS> Why do you think that the Russian forces are superior? While it is
DS> true that they may outnumber the Ukrainian troops, they are
DS> certainly not making the ground gains expected by Putin.

Well, you probably forgot the main slogan of the Putin's campaign - the _liberation_ of Ukrainian people from fascists. ;) So, killing a common Ukrainian people is certainly is not in the plan. But if the Ukrainian military sits in the cities quarters it is almost impossible to done
them without flattening the city into ruins. I don't know what Putin
will do with it. For a now his military targets those targets it can
find in the open and is not in a hurry. But every day Ukrainian army has
big and useless losses. Why Zelensky doesn't want to spare his soldiers
from being killed is a big question. Russian military planes,
helicopters, missiles stroke them everyday.

DS> Much of the damage being done to Ukraine is by air strikes and long
DS> range missles. The Russian ground troops are stagnated in some
DS> places and in other places the Ukrainian troops are pushing them
DS> back.

I have already told you why Russian troops cannot enter the big cities.
And I repeat all victims and distraction coukd be avoided if Zelensky
would choose a peaceful scenario. Peaceful resistance to the Russian
troops could be more effective. No killed, no distruction. Another
matter that too many people in Ukraine really want to fight.

Bye, Dale!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Thursday March 24 2022 14:41, you wrote to me:

As long you don't know (at not supposed to know) the truth -
you cannot be sure about anything. Baiden was right about the
Invasion, Putin was lying. Now we see that clearly. But number
of killed Russians is a secret information, Russian State was
never very happy to disclose any secret information and they can

easily

lie about casualties. I don't think Baiden will help us with
that:(

Say to me - if the truth/a lie == 50/50 - what is it? ;-)

We don't have any numbers of killed Russian soldiers for several weeks. Nothing.

And Baiden was right 100% about invasion.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, alexander!

Thursday March 24 2022 15:08, you wrote to Dale Shipp:

Well, you probably forgot the main slogan of the Putin's campaign -
the _liberation_ of Ukrainian people from fascists. ;) So, killing a

He was lying, again.

common Ukrainian people is certainly is not in the plan. But if the

You never saw the plan, thats the problem.

Ukrainian military sits in the cities quarters it is almost impossible
to done them without flattening the city into ruins. I don't know what

The same was with Soviet forces during WWII - they were located near civil areas. And Nazi troops were detroying Kharkiv the same way.
Ukranians are protecting their country from foreign invaders and Russian forces was never very accurate, so mass destruction of cities was almost inevitable.

I have already told you why Russian troops cannot enter the big
cities. And I repeat all victims and distraction coukd be avoided if Zelensky would choose a peaceful scenario. Peaceful resistance to the

You mean - surrender? This is treason, BTW.

Russian troops could be more effective. No killed, no distruction.

You mean - surrender? CHeck what's happening in Mariupol - Russian forces already banned Ukranian language in schools, many citizens were detained, torture is common.

Another matter that too many people in Ukraine really want to fight.

Putin says that Russians and Ukranians are the same nation, right? So why he thought that theywill surrender?
He is just crazy.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

I have already told you why Russian troops cannot enter the big cities.

They have tried.

And I repeat all victims and distraction coukd be avoided if Zelensky
would choose a peaceful scenario. Peaceful resistance to the Russian
troops could be more effective. No killed, no distruction. Another
matter that too many people in Ukraine really want to fight.

Do you actually believe that? Peaceful resistance to the Russian troops could be more effective?

It is not that too many people in Ukraine want to fight. Ukraine was invaded by Russia. There was no threat to Russia by Ukraine. The Ukrainian people are fighting for their lives and country. They are doing that heroically and with much success in spite of the superior numbers of the invaders.

You can believe that the number of Russian soldiers who have died is as reported. The Ukrainians didn't ask for the war and have asked Russia to end their invasion.

None of this would have happened had Russia not started this heinous act of aggression and committed it's various war crimes since the invation began.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

On 03-24-22 15:08, Alexander Koryagin <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Ukraine National Ant <=-

Why do you think that the Russian forces are superior? While it is
true that they may outnumber the Ukrainian troops, they are
certainly not making the ground gains expected by Putin.

Well, you probably forgot the main slogan of the Putin's campaign -
the _liberation_ of Ukrainian people from fascists. ;) So, killing a

And that slogan was poppy cock and a lie. Putin wants to wipe Ukraine
off the face of the earth, and is trying to do just that.

common Ukrainian people is certainly is not in the plan. But if the Ukrainian military sits in the cities quarters it is almost impossible
to done them without flattening the city into ruins. I don't know what Putin will do with it. For a now his military targets those targets it can find in the open and is not in a hurry. But every day Ukrainian

The flattening of the city of Maripol show how that is a lie.

army has big and useless losses.

And the Russian forces are having big and useless losses.

Why Zelensky doesn't want to spare
his soldiers from being killed is a big question. Russian military planes, helicopters, missiles stroke them everyday.

Zelensky does not want to give his people's country to Russia. The
Ukrainian people are the ones who are doing the fighting.

I have already told you why Russian troops cannot enter the big
cities. And I repeat all victims and distraction coukd be avoided if Zelensky would choose a peaceful scenario. Peaceful resistance to the Russian troops could be more effective. No killed, no distruction. Another matter that too many people in Ukraine really want to fight.

All victims and devastation could also be avoided if Putin would give up
his useless fight and take his battered troops back to Russia where they belong.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 00:51:04, 25 Mar 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

All victims and devastation could also be avoided if Putin would give up his useless fight and take his battered troops back to Russia where they belong.

I think it comes down to "Not losing face", "Explaining all the dead Russian soldiers" and "finding a way out of this".

But I think Putin is not ready for this. What should've been a walk-over for Russian troops turned into somethng else. It did prove that the Russian ground troops are not as impressive as during military parades on Red Square. He will not retire from the battle field and will use ever ugglier weapons ... a nuclear strike on Kiev is unavoidable nearly... Only by vaporizing Ukraine can he win that war.

And the west sits on their collective asses, condemns, demands ... but does nothing while the Ukrainian people get slaughtered and their cities destroyed ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220222
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

And the west sits on their collective asses, condemns, demands ... but does nothing while the Ukrainian people get slaughtered and their cities destroyed ...

The west does nothing?

The war in Ukraine is a human catastrophy, we can all see that. If the west put boots on the ground now it would become a hot mess rather quickly and that would not help Ukraine.

There is a red line somewhere, I couldn't say exactly where it is since I am not a war planner and am not involved, but it is there.

Today Russia used white phosphorus in Ukraine, in Kyiv in a civilian area. That is a chemical weapon. It burns the target area including any people on the ground hit by it. Russia is getting closer to the red line although that gives me no comfort.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

The west does nothing?

The war in Ukraine is a human catastrophy, we can all see that. If the
west put boots on the ground now it would become a hot mess rather
quickly and that would not help Ukraine.

Then what will help Ukraine? Another session of the Security Council where Russia holds veto power?

Biden is in Europe right now ... yesterday Brussels, right now somewhere east from here ... Flying Air Force One to any available airstrip anywhere near Kiev would be a really strong sign. But he will not.

Today Russia used white phosphorus in Ukraine, in Kyiv in a civilian
area. That is a chemical weapon. It burns the target area including any people on the ground hit by it. Russia is getting closer to the red line although that gives me no comfort.

Russia will do "anything" eventually and they will use nukes if events do not unfold in their favor ... it will melt the cities and vaporize it's remaining population ...

The reason why the ground offensive does not work is that it's one thing between pushing a button and firing a rocket or dropping a bomb from 3000m while not seeing your victim or your target. It becomes a totally different ball of wax when you are looking an adversary whom you're supposed to kill straight into his/her eyes.

During WW2 my father during hand-to-hand combat knifed a young German soldier, kill or be killed. It haunted him for the next 78 years of his life describing the terrorized look in that young man's eyes, realizing he was about to die, then see the eyes break and life ebbing away ... Russian soldiers are trained to push buttons but in their hearts I'm pretty certain they have not lost the human touch ... as a result the ground fighting is not all that very convincing. Plus the resistance that is being put up ... when you see that Russian ship going up in flames and the others retreating ...

A hornets' nest ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220222
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

The war in Ukraine is a human catastrophy, we can all see that. If the
west put boots on the ground now it would become a hot mess rather
quickly and that would not help Ukraine.

Then what will help Ukraine?

I wish I had a solution for Ukraine. I know that at this moment the have to fight and endure what has been put upon them, not asked for.

Another session of the Security Council where Russia holds veto power?

If I could I would remove Russia from the security council. They don't seem to be interested even in the security of Russia presently.

The good thing about the UN is at least they are at the table. I'd like to keep them at the table but not at the security coucil.

Perhaps we should restructure the UN for 21st century realities.

Biden is in Europe right now ... yesterday Brussels, right now somewhere east from here ... Flying Air Force One to any available airstrip anywhere near Kiev would be a really strong sign. But he will not.

That is a bridge to far, it is just to risky. In spite of that I have to agree I would like to see that too but America's security services won't allow it.

Today Russia used white phosphorus in Ukraine, in Kyiv in a civilian
area. That is a chemical weapon. It burns the target area including any
people on the ground hit by it. Russia is getting closer to the red line
although that gives me no comfort.

Russia will do "anything" eventually and they will use nukes if events do not unfold in their favor ... it will melt the cities and vaporize it's remaining population ...

That would certainly cross the red line. I hope not to see it.

The reason why the ground offensive does not work is that it's one thing between pushing a button and firing a rocket or dropping a bomb from 3000m while not seeing your victim or your target. It becomes a totally different ball of wax when you are looking an adversary whom you're supposed to kill straight into his/her eyes.

Yes, that is what war is today.

During WW2 my father during hand-to-hand combat knifed a young German soldier, >kill or be killed. It haunted him for the next 78 years of his life describing
the terrorized look in that young man's eyes, realizing he was about to die, then see the eyes break and life ebbing away ... Russian soldiers are trained to push buttons but in their hearts I'm pretty certain they have not lost the human touch ... as a result the ground fighting is not all that very convincing. Plus the resistance that is being put up ... when you see that Russian ship going up in flames and the others retreating ...

Much of WW2 was like this. This is not WW2 but there is a similar enemy today.

I don't think that Russian soldiers (not in all cases of course) really want this war and that could account for the poor performance of the Russian military's ground offensive.

In spite of that they have done much damage. Places like Mariupol have been obliterated (bombs and missiles largely) for the kremlins desire to have a roadway between Russia and Crimea. I don't think they will get that in the end but Mariupol pays the price. War is not fair.

A hornets' nest ...

It is and I don't see an immediate solution for that.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Hello Ward,

All victims and devastation could also be avoided if Putin would give up
his useless fight and take his battered troops back to Russia where they
belong.

I think it comes down to "Not losing face", "Explaining all the dead Russian
soldiers" and "finding a way out of this".

He does not care about the Russian people. As such, he has no
explaining to do. Not with anybody. He does what he wants, daring
somebody to stop him.

But I think Putin is not ready for this.

This is what Putin always wanted. Obama gave him the green light by
doing basically nothing in regards to Crimea. He continued his antics
in the Donbas region, and now he is set to finish the job.

What should've been a walk-over for Russian troops turned into somethng else.

Putin was well aware there could be stiff resistance. With an initial
force of 200,000+ Russian troops placed on the border of Ukraine, plus
having many more reserves ready to go, along with Belarus to join in
later, Putin was more than ready.

It did prove that the Russian ground troops are not as impressive as during
military parades on Red Square.

The regulars had to show the conscripts the ropes. Which does not
always go as planned.

He will not retire from the battle field and will use ever ugglier weapons ... a nuclear strike on Kiev is unavoidable nearly... Only by vaporizing Ukraine can he win that war.

That would get the USA off the hook for Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

And the west sits on their collective asses, condemns, demands ...

The US President went to Brussels begging for help. Where are those
tanks? Where are those airplanes? Where is all that other military
equipment and supplies that are so desperately needed by Ukraine?

but does nothing while the Ukrainian people get slaughtered and their cities
destroyed

When the going gets tough, better to keep our own ground troops
at home. That is the philosophy of the west.

Now if it wants to get tough, let Germany replace its chancellor
with Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg.

Then, Putin will listen.

--Lee

--
Every bite is a different temperature

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Alan,

And the west sits on their collective asses, condemns, demands ... but does
nothing while the Ukrainian people get slaughtered and their cities
destroyed
...

The west does nothing?

Not enough. Not nearly enough.

Did Obama do enough to dissuade Putin from invading Crimea? Even
after Russia's illegal annexation of Crimea he did next to nothing.
Just a few shallow sanctions. Putin continued his campaign against
Ukraine in the Donbass region by arming separatists, causing the
deaths of 14,000+ people. Today we have the full invasion, with
no signs of Putin ending his brutal campaign against the people of
Ukraine.

The war in Ukraine is a human catastrophy, we can all see that. If the west
put boots on the ground now it would become a hot mess rather quickly and that would not help Ukraine.

The west will not even send tanks, much less airplanes. Let Putin
continue to wreak havoc in Ukraine. As long as he does not do so in
the rest of Europe. Better to let him have it one piece at a time.
That way, nobody will notice.

There is a red line somewhere, I couldn't say exactly where it is since I am
not a war planner and am not involved, but it is there.

I'm sure Neville Chamberlain could show you. But he left the building
long ago and is nowhere to be found.

What Europe (and the world) needs is another Winston Churchill.
That man most certainly is not Joe Biden, as he hardly has enough
spine to chill a cat, much less a dog of war.

What we are facing today is not another Josef Stalin (who got along
very well with both FDR and Winston Churchill) but a man who thinks
he is the Czar of Russia (before the events of WWI).

Today Russia used white phosphorus in Ukraine, in Kyiv in a civilian area. That is a chemical weapon. It burns the target area including any people on
the ground hit by it. Russia is getting closer to the red line although that gives me no comfort.

Putin views all the lands of Russia, Belarus, and Ukraine as being
one people and one land mass. The Czar rules all, without exception.
Nobody can defy his rule. That is Putin's way. He has the Orthodox
patriarch in his pocket, as if he is God himself.

--Lee

--
Education not deportation!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Ward,

The west does nothing?

The war in Ukraine is a human catastrophy, we can all see that. If the
west put boots on the ground now it would become a hot mess rather
quickly and that would not help Ukraine.

Then what will help Ukraine? Another session of the Security Council where Russia holds veto power?

The general assembly could change that. But it won't.

Biden is in Europe right now ... yesterday Brussels, right now somewhere east from here ... Flying Air Force One to any available airstrip anywhere near Kiev would be a really strong sign. But he will not.

Biden could send his secretary of state. But he won't.

Today Russia used white phosphorus in Ukraine, in Kyiv in a civilian
area. That is a chemical weapon. It burns the target area including any
people on the ground hit by it. Russia is getting closer to the red line
although that gives me no comfort.

Russia will do "anything" eventually and they will use nukes if events do not unfold in their favor ... it will melt the cities and vaporize it's remaining population ...

Putin can be replaced by someone who is rational. Just like Germany
could have replaced Hitler by someone who is rational. But we all know
that won't happen.

The reason why the ground offensive does not work is that it's one thing between pushing a button and firing a rocket or dropping a bomb from 3000m while not seeing your victim or your target. It becomes a totally different
ball of wax when you are looking an adversary whom you're supposed to kill straight into his/her eyes.

And yet the alternative is ...

During WW2 my father during hand-to-hand combat knifed a young German soldier, kill or be killed. It haunted him for the next 78 years of his life describing the terrorized look in that young man's eyes, realizing he was about to die, then see the eyes break and life ebbing away ... Russian soldiers are trained to push buttons but in their hearts I'm pretty certain
they have not lost the human touch ... as a result the ground fighting is not all that very convincing. Plus the resistance that is being put up ... when you see that Russian ship going up in flames and the others retreating
...

Nobody wants to be on the good ship lollipop when it goes down.

A hornets' nest ...

There should never be any wars. Anywhere. And yet here we are.

--Lee

--
Muslim rights are human rights!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

The west does nothing?

Not enough. Not nearly enough.

I tend to agree. The bureaucracy of <insert favorite insitution here> can be hard to watch but I think the west has stood up in this case and I hope they don't drop the ball.

Did Obama do enough to dissuade Putin from invading Crimea?

I honestly don't know. I was too busy with stuff happening in my own life at the time and I don't know what happened or why.

Do the people of Crimea want to separate from Ukraine? I don't know but I think they should be free to be Russian, Ukrainian or Crimean as they see fit.

Even after Russia's illegal annexation of Crimea he did next to nothing.
Just a few shallow sanctions.

Maybe that's why Donald Trump thought Putin was so smart to take a country for $2.00 worth of sanctions. What an idiot.

Putin continued his campaign against Ukraine in the Donbass region by arming separatists, causing the deaths of 14,000+ people.

This part I have been following.

Today we have the full invasion, with no signs of Putin ending his brutal campaign against the people of Ukraine.

I hope the ending is soon since the people of Ukraine never threatened or attacked anyone.

The west will not even send tanks, much less airplanes. Let Putin
continue to wreak havoc in Ukraine. As long as he does not do so in
the rest of Europe. Better to let him have it one piece at a time.
That way, nobody will notice.

It is Russia who has invaded and attacked Ukraine. The west has supported Ukraine with military and other aid and will not stop now.

What Europe (and the world) needs is another Winston Churchill.

Volodymyr Zelenskyy is not Churchill but I like him. He has done a good job as leader of Ukraine.

That man most certainly is not Joe Biden, as he hardly has enough
spine to chill a cat, much less a dog of war.

Whatever people may think of Biden I am very glad he is POTUS today.

Putin views all the lands of Russia, Belarus, and Ukraine as being
one people and one land mass. The Czar rules all, without exception.
Nobody can defy his rule. That is Putin's way. He has the Orthodox
patriarch in his pocket, as if he is God himself.

Putin's best days are well behind him now. What the future holds for Russia I don't know.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

On 03-25-22 14:07, Ward Dossche <=-
spoke to Alan Ianson about Re: Ukraine National Ant <=-

Russia will do "anything" eventually and they will use
nukes if events do not unfold in their favor ... it will
melt the cities and vaporize it's remaining population ...

Except, as you may have now seen, Putin has declared that his real
intention was in the eastern part of Ukraine -- the Donbas (sp?) region,
and that the attacks around Kivl were merely a distraction. To me, that
sounds like he is trying to save face for how badly that part of the
ground war has gone.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 01:48:06, 26 Mar 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

Except, as you may have now seen, Putin has declared that his real intention was in the eastern part of Ukraine -- the Donbas (sp?) region, and that the attacks around Kivl were merely a distraction. To me, that sounds like he is trying to save face for how badly that part of the
ground war has gone.

I fully subscribe to that view ... thousands of Russian soldiers lost, billions worth of equipment destroyed, 3 million people on the run, thousands of civilians killed, whole city-centers destroyed ... what kind of a distraction is that?

An Italian newspaper wrote that the simplest way-out of this would be a bullit where Putin's brain should be. This made the Russian embassy in Rome mad and they filed a criminal complaint, inciting people to commit violence.

Love the Italians ... maybe Fabio has a better version...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220222
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello Alan,

[..]

Today we have the full invasion, with no signs of Putin ending his brutal
campaign against the people of Ukraine.

I hope the ending is soon since the people of Ukraine never threatened or attacked anyone.

Putin's vision is to eliminate Ukraine from the face of the earth.
It is essential for him to do so, as Ukraine is the lynchpin. He views
himself as Czar of Russia. Not in the sense you think of it. Or of
what most others might think of it.

Putin is not interested in recreating or resurrecting the USSR.
What he wants is something far greater. Something all the world's
leaders and political commentators seem to have forgotten.

In times of old, the peoples around the world (those in Christendom)
looked upon three people:

* The Pope
* The King/Queen of England
* The Czar of Russia

We all know who those people represented. The world's Catholics
looked to the Pope. The world's Protestants looked to the King/Queen
of England. The world's Orthodox looked to the Czar of Russia.

In those days, there was no separation of church and state.
In Putin's Russia, there is no separation of church and state.

That is why he does not recognize Belarus or Ukraine as independent
or sovereign states. Both are part of Russia, with all his subjects.

The west will not even send tanks, much less airplanes. Let Putin
continue to wreak havoc in Ukraine. As long as he does not do so in
the rest of Europe. Better to let him have it one piece at a time.
That way, nobody will notice.

It is Russia who has invaded and attacked Ukraine. The west has supported Ukraine with military and other aid and will not stop now.

This is a case of the bear reprimanding one of its cubs. Mama bear
will not stop until baby bear complies.

What Europe (and the world) needs is another Winston Churchill.

Volodymyr Zelenskyy is not Churchill but I like him. He has done a good job
as leader of Ukraine.

All comedy is based on tragedy. Shakespeare said that. And what a
tragedy it is for Ukraine (and the world) to be going through this.
Yes, Zelensky has performed bravely, and heroicly. But we all know
how this ends.

That man most certainly is not Joe Biden, as he hardly has enough
spine to chill a cat, much less a dog of war.

Whatever people may think of Biden I am very glad he is POTUS today.

Had Donald Trump won a second term there would have been no war in
Ukraine. Trump would have withdrawn the US from NATO, Putin would
have forced Ukraine to comply with his wishes (becoming a vassal
state), Zelensky would retire from politics and go on an extended
speaking tour, and all would be well.

Putin views all the lands of Russia, Belarus, and Ukraine as being
one people and one land mass. The Czar rules all, without exception.
Nobody can defy his rule. That is Putin's way. He has the Orthodox
patriarch in his pocket, as if he is God himself.

Putin's best days are well behind him now.

He is just getting started. A young man, pushing 70 but still in
great shape, and ready for action. As long as he can find enough
young people to do it for him.

What the future holds for Russia I don't know.

The population of Russia today is 145 million. That is down
by 10 million from what it was a decade ago. And Russians are
leaving by even greater numbers since the invasion of Ukraine
began ...

--Lee

--
Say it loud! Say it clear! / Refugees are welcome here!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Alan,

The west does nothing?

Not enough. Not nearly enough.

I tend to agree. The bureaucracy of <insert favorite insitution here> can be
hard to watch but I think the west has stood up in this case and I hope they don't drop the ball.

It was no surprise to anyone when Putin decided to invade Crimea,
and then annex it into Russia. It was also no surprise for any real
Ukrainian military resistance, as such military resistance was
virtually non-existent. All that US President Barack Obama could
do was protest and impose weak sanctions on Russia for its actions.
And of course, the UN condemned its actions, punishing Putin with
a wet noodle.

Did Obama do enough to dissuade Putin from invading Crimea?

I honestly don't know. I was too busy with stuff happening in my own life at
the time and I don't know what happened or why.

Obama did next to nothing. The world just shrugged its shoulders.
Putin got what he wanted, at very little cost. And that was just a
nibble of things to come.

Do the people of Crimea want to separate from Ukraine?

The people of Crimea are no better off today than they were before
Russia forcibly and illegally annexed that part of Ukraine as part
of Russia.

I don't know but I think they should be free to be Russian, Ukrainian or Crimean as they see fit.

Those in Crimea who oppose Russian rule are put in gulag where they
pose no more problems for anybody.

Even after Russia's illegal annexation of Crimea he did next to nothing.
Just a few shallow sanctions.

Maybe that's why Donald Trump thought Putin was so smart to take a country for $2.00 worth of sanctions. What an idiot.

A self-declared stable genius. Of course hindsight is always better
than foresight. But Trump always did speak warmly of Putin. Even before
he somehow managed to win the presidency.

Putin continued his campaign against Ukraine in the Donbass region by
arming
separatists, causing the deaths of 14,000+ people.

This part I have been following.

First he started by invading Crimea in 2014. Then he continued his war
by arming separatists in two more provinces of Ukraine. The day before
his full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Putin unilaterally recognized those
two areas as independent and separate states.

(continued next message)

--Lee

--
You're fired, Donald!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hi, Alan Ianson!
I read your message from 24.03.2022 15:36

AI>>> I have already told you why Russian troops cannot enter the big
AI>>> cities.

AI> They have tried.

They tried and it was clear once more that such missions are impossible without great destruction of the cities, and it undermine very much the
reason of intrusion as "help for the common Ukrainian people" to people
living in that cities.

ak>> And I repeat all victims and distraction could be avoided if
ak>> Zelensky would choose a peaceful scenario. Peaceful resistance to
ak>> the Russian troops could be more effective. No killed, no
ak>> distruction. Another matter that too many people in Ukraine really
ak>> want to fight.

AI> Do you actually believe that? Peaceful resistance to the Russian
AI> troops could be more effective?

Yes. Ukrainians could create an atmosphere of rejection, defiance and, simultaneously, there was no reason for bloodshed and shooting. Russian military would understand that they are not welcome and there is
absolutely no sense for their patrols, checkpoints etc. It could be
peacefully delivered to Putin that his "help" and "liberation" are not
need here and the sooner he gets out the better would be for all. Do you
know -- spilt blood entangles all conflicts.

AI> It is not that too many people in Ukraine want to fight. Ukraine
AI> was invaded by Russia. There was no threat to Russia by Ukraine.
AI> The Ukrainian people are fighting for their lives and country. They
AI> are doing that heroically and with much success in spite of the
AI> superior numbers of the invaders.

I say you -- no Ukrainians would be killed if they have not led this
unequal and useless war. Russians are not fascists, we were friends and brothers after all not far ago, and everything could be solved without spilling blood.

;-) It sound funny but this situation looks like the old 1989 computer
game Prince of Persia. The hero meets his dark double, and the correct
way to do is to sheathe the sword.

AI> You can believe that the number of Russian soldiers who have died
AI> is as reported. The Ukrainians didn't ask for the war and have
AI> asked Russia to end their invasion.

AI> None of this would have happened had Russia not started this
AI> heinous act of aggression and committed it's various war crimes
AI> since the invation began.

Blood in Ukraine has spilled for 8 years before today. The main blame is
on the politics who didn't want to solve the problem for so long time.

Bye, Alan!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Dale Shipp!
I read your message from 25.03.2022 00:44

DS>> Why do you think that the Russian forces are superior? While it is
DS>> true that they may outnumber the Ukrainian troops, they are
DS>> certainly not making the ground gains expected by Putin.

AK>> Well, you probably forgot the main slogan of the Putin's
AK>> campaign - the _liberation_ of Ukrainian people from fascists. So,
AK>> killing a

DS> And that slogan was poppy cock and a lie. Putin wants to wipe
DS> Ukraine off the face of the earth, and is trying to do just that.

You are actually say that Putin wants to kill innocent civilian people
and wipe out Ukraine off the face of the earth. It is a not funny
marasmus, and it is totally incorrect.

AK>> common Ukrainian people is certainly is not in the plan. But if
AK>> the Ukrainian military sits in the cities quarters it is almost
AK>> impossible to done them without flattening the city into ruins. I
AK>> don't know what Putin will do with it. For a now his military
AK>> targets those targets it can find in the open and is not in a
AK>> hurry. But every day Ukrainian

DS> The flattening of the city of Maripol show how that is a lie.

It difficult to say what is more insane - to build a military fortified
area inside big cities or storming them. But one thing is clear --
Mariupol is a Russian speaking city, so the live of its citizens are not important to nationalists who has made their houses and flats into
firing points.

AK>> army has big and useless losses.
DS> And the Russian forces are having big and useless losses.

Yes they are, although the difference depends on superiority in killing weaponry. The less you armed the senseless your resistance to those who
armed to the teeth. This was the case in the American invasion into
Iraq, for instance.

AK>> Why Zelensky doesn't want to spare his soldiers from being killed
AK>> is a big question. Russian military planes, helicopters, missiles
AK>> stroke them everyday.

DS> Zelensky does not want to give his people's country to Russia. The
DS> Ukrainian people are the ones who are doing the fighting.

Occupation of Ukraine is not the Putin's aim. His aims are rather
political.

The main problem in this conflict, IMHO, is that Putin is so disliked by
so many people in the world that even if he does good things these
things would be perceived negatively anyway.

Bye, Dale!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 25.03.2022 13:09

WD> from the battle field and will use ever ugglier weapons ... a
WD> nuclear strike on Kiev is unavoidable nearly... Only by
WD> vaporizing Ukraine can he win that war.

Don't drink so much. ;-)

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Alexander,

Don't drink so much. ;-)

In Belgium there is a popular saying.

"Alexander,
Alles voor mij
En niets voor een ander"

Google is your friend, in Dutch it rhymes wonderfully well.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220222
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Putin's vision is to eliminate Ukraine from the face of the earth.

That is clear from what he calls phase one of the successful invasion of Ukraine. Of course it was not successful. If you believe what he says (of course you cannot believe anything he says) he has now moved on to phase 2 in the Donbass region where he will kill and destroy the cities of largely Russian speaking areas of Ukraine as he did in Mariupol and other places.

It is essential for him to do so, as Ukraine is the lynchpin. He views himself as Czar of Russia. Not in the sense you think of it. Or of
what most others might think of it.

Yes, he would be the Tsar of Russia.

Putin is not interested in recreating or resurrecting the USSR.
What he wants is something far greater. Something all the world's
leaders and political commentators seem to have forgotten.

In times of old, the peoples around the world (those in Christendom)
looked upon three people:

* The Pope
* The King/Queen of England
* The Czar of Russia

We all know who those people represented. The world's Catholics
looked to the Pope. The world's Protestants looked to the King/Queen
of England. The world's Orthodox looked to the Czar of Russia.

The days of the Tsar are over now.

In those days, there was no separation of church and state.
In Putin's Russia, there is no separation of church and state.

That is why he does not recognize Belarus or Ukraine as independent
or sovereign states. Both are part of Russia, with all his subjects.

This is a dream world of times past long ago.

This is a case of the bear reprimanding one of its cubs. Mama bear
will not stop until baby bear complies.

No, this is something different. Very different.

All comedy is based on tragedy. Shakespeare said that. And what a
tragedy it is for Ukraine (and the world) to be going through this.
Yes, Zelensky has performed bravely, and heroicly. But we all know
how this ends.

Russia invaded Ukraine and will be expelled at great cost.

Had Donald Trump won a second term there would have been no war in
Ukraine. Trump would have withdrawn the US from NATO, Putin would
have forced Ukraine to comply with his wishes (becoming a vassal
state), Zelensky would retire from politics and go on an extended
speaking tour, and all would be well.

When the Donald was elected I thought that was a bad idea but I didn't realize it would turn out so badly. I hope there will be no more such presidents in the USA.

Putin's best days are well behind him now.

He is just getting started. A young man, pushing 70 but still in
great shape, and ready for action. As long as he can find enough
young people to do it for him.

No, Putin is just about finished.

The population of Russia today is 145 million. That is down
by 10 million from what it was a decade ago. And Russians are
leaving by even greater numbers since the invasion of Ukraine
began ...

I don't blame the people of Russia although the events unfolding today are being done in the name of Russia. I hope that the people of Russia will solve their kleptocracy issues and rejoin the world community at some point.

That's a rather tall order but I hope they can do that somehow. The real power is in the hands of the Russian people if they will exercize. Maybe they don't know they have the power?

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

It was no surprise to anyone when Putin decided to invade Crimea,
and then annex it into Russia. It was also no surprise for any real
Ukrainian military resistance, as such military resistance was
virtually non-existent. All that US President Barack Obama could
do was protest and impose weak sanctions on Russia for its actions.
And of course, the UN condemned its actions, punishing Putin with
a wet noodle.

I don't recognize Putin's annexation of Crimea, does anyone?

Obama did next to nothing. The world just shrugged its shoulders.
Putin got what he wanted, at very little cost. And that was just a
nibble of things to come.

Did Crimea ask for help?

The people of Crimea are no better off today than they were before
Russia forcibly and illegally annexed that part of Ukraine as part
of Russia.

I wouldn't want to be a part of Russia but maybe the people of Crimea want that?

A self-declared stable genius. Of course hindsight is always better
than foresight. But Trump always did speak warmly of Putin. Even before
he somehow managed to win the presidency.

Yes, he took the word of Putin over his own intelligence agencies.

First he started by invading Crimea in 2014. Then he continued his war
by arming separatists in two more provinces of Ukraine. The day before
his full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Putin unilaterally recognized those
two areas as independent and separate states.

I'm not interested in the pronouncements of Putin.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

They tried and it was clear once more that such missions are impossible without great destruction of the cities, and it undermine very much the reason of intrusion as "help for the common Ukrainian people" to people living in that cities.

Don't be silly. Did Ukraine ask for help? No?

And I repeat all victims and distraction could be avoided if
Zelensky would choose a peaceful scenario. Peaceful resistance to
the Russian troops could be more effective. No killed, no
distruction. Another matter that too many people in Ukraine really
want to fight.

Zelensky was not the one who invaded a peaceful sovereign nation. Russia did and Russia will pay for their aggression.

Yes. Ukrainians could create an atmosphere of rejection, defiance and, simultaneously, there was no reason for bloodshed and shooting. Russian military would understand that they are not welcome and there is
absolutely no sense for their patrols, checkpoints etc. It could be peacefully delivered to Putin that his "help" and "liberation" are not
need here and the sooner he gets out the better would be for all. Do you
know -- spilt blood entangles all conflicts.

Russia began the war by bombing Ukraine. Do you think that is bloodless?

The Russian military is clear today their "help" and "liberation" are not wanted if it wasn't clear already (it should have been). Does that stop them? No.

I say you -- no Ukrainians would be killed if they have not led this
unequal and useless war. Russians are not fascists, we were friends and brothers after all not far ago, and everything could be solved without spilling blood.

Not is just nonsense.

Russia invaded Ukraine starting with bombs and missiles and that continues today. There is no such thing as a bloodless invasion.

None of this would have happened had Russia not started this
heinous act of aggression and committed it's various war crimes
since the invation began.

Blood in Ukraine has spilled for 8 years before today. The main blame is
on the politics who didn't want to solve the problem for so long time.

Yes, Russia began it's aggression years ago.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

The main problem in this conflict, IMHO, is that Putin is so disliked by
so many people in the world that even if he does good things these
things would be perceived negatively anyway.

Russia is not doing anything good in Ukraine.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Hello Dale!

..as you may have now seen, Putin has declared that his
real intention was in the eastern part of Ukraine -- the
Donbas (sp?) region, and that the attacks around Kivl were
merely a distraction. To me, that sounds like he is
trying to save face for how badly that part of the ground
war has gone.

Sounds like a feasible way to back out of the mess that he has
created. But I have to wonder how he expects to regain any
respect after destroying innocent civilian lives, and
demolishing buildings, hospitals, homes and infrastructure of a
country that was doing quit nicely and existing peacefully on
its own.

Putin is a psychotic prick.


--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: --> . <-- Oh look.. A point! (2:221/1.58)

Hello Ward!

** On Friday 25.03.22 - 14:07, you wrote:

Russia will do "anything" eventually and they will use
nukes if events do not unfold in their favor ... it will
melt the cities and vaporize it's remaining population ...

Nukes have to be bluff. Would anyone in their right mind go
along with such orders? Nuclear fallout knows no neat and tidy
borders. Is Putin prepared to live the rest of his life in a
bunker? There is no guarantee that radiation contamination will
stop outside Russia. Hopefully, Putin's advisors and commrades
would think it through.


--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: --> . <-- Oh look.. A point! (2:221/1.58)

Hello Alan,

Putin's vision is to eliminate Ukraine from the face of the earth.

That is clear from what he calls phase one of the successful invasion of Ukraine. Of course it was not successful. If you believe what he says (of course you cannot believe anything he says) he has now moved on to phase 2 in the Donbass region where he will kill and destroy the cities of largely Russian speaking areas of Ukraine as he did in Mariupol and other places.

Those two areas are largely uncontested, populated by Putin loyalists,
so its cities will not be destroyed. Except one industrial city just
outside that area populated by hundreds of thousands of civilians who
have not pledged loyalty to Putin.

It is essential for him to do so, as Ukraine is the lynchpin. He views
himself as Czar of Russia. Not in the sense you think of it. Or of
what most others might think of it.

Yes, he would be the Tsar of Russia.

Overseeing all the lands populated by the Orthodox faithful.

Putin is not interested in recreating or resurrecting the USSR.
What he wants is something far greater. Something all the world's
leaders and political commentators seem to have forgotten.

In times of old, the peoples around the world (those in Christendom)
looked upon three people:

* The Pope
* The King/Queen of England
* The Czar of Russia

We all know who those people represented. The world's Catholics
looked to the Pope. The world's Protestants looked to the King/Queen
of England. The world's Orthodox looked to the Czar of Russia.

The days of the Tsar are over now.

Not in Putin's mind.

In those days, there was no separation of church and state.
In Putin's Russia, there is no separation of church and state.

That is why he does not recognize Belarus or Ukraine as independent
or sovereign states. Both are part of Russia, with all his subjects.

This is a dream world of times past long ago.

This is Putin's dream of days to come.

This is a case of the bear reprimanding one of its cubs. Mama bear
will not stop until baby bear complies.

No, this is something different. Very different.

Putin views Mother Russia as the bear, and Ukraine as the cub that
needs to be taught a lesson.

All comedy is based on tragedy. Shakespeare said that. And what a
tragedy it is for Ukraine (and the world) to be going through this.
Yes, Zelensky has performed bravely, and heroicly. But we all know
how this ends.

All comedy is based on tragedy. An individual slips on a banana
peel and lands on his butt. We laugh. Even though it is a tragedy.

Putin finds it funny that a comedian would dare defy his rule.
And now Putin has found himself the one who has slipped on a banana
peel. What do you think will be his reaction?

Russia invaded Ukraine and will be expelled at great cost.

Putin is like a gorilla whose hand won't let go of a coconut
in the ground. He is incapable of escaping his own predicament.
But does his opposition have the will to finish what needs to
be done, or will it have mercy and free him to continue his ways?

Had Donald Trump won a second term there would have been no war in
Ukraine. Trump would have withdrawn the US from NATO, Putin would
have forced Ukraine to comply with his wishes (becoming a vassal
state), Zelensky would retire from politics and go on an extended
speaking tour, and all would be well.

When the Donald was elected I thought that was a bad idea but I didn't realize it would turn out so badly. I hope there will be no more such presidents in the USA.

He could return to haunt us. You know that.

Putin's best days are well behind him now.

He is just getting started. A young man, pushing 70 but still in
great shape, and ready for action. As long as he can find enough
young people to do it for him.

No, Putin is just about finished.

What a ridiculous thing to say. Just because Putin is pushing 70 does
not mean he is "just about finished." Donald Trump will be a young man
of 78 if he is re-elected POTUS in 2024. And Joe Biden will only be 82
years young if he wins a second consecutive term in 2024. And do keep
in mind that Putin has a six-year term rather than a short four-year
term. Plenty of time for him to prepare for the next election.

The population of Russia today is 145 million. That is down
by 10 million from what it was a decade ago. And Russians are
leaving by even greater numbers since the invasion of Ukraine
began ...

I don't blame the people of Russia although the events unfolding today are being done in the name of Russia. I hope that the people of Russia will solve their kleptocracy issues and rejoin the world community at some point.

The majority of Russians know and understand who and what Putin is.
Although they would prefer a more rational leader, they are unable to
freely express their views, much less vote for the candidate of their
choice. It is fantasy to believe Russia is still a democracy of any
kind. But people are not stupid. Not nearly as stupid as Putin would
like to believe.

That's a rather tall order but I hope they can do that somehow.

One day, like all men, Putin will die. And people everywhere around
the world (not just in Russia) will celebrate.

The real power is in the hands of the Russian people if they will exercize.
Maybe they don't know they have the power?

Il Duce ordered women to make babies for Fascist Italy. Offered them
bribes to do so. Lots of Italian lira. But Italian couples knew what
to do. Yes, they continued to do what men and women have always done
since the beginning of time. But just before reaching that magic
moment, they completely lost interest and nothing came of it. This
is real history, what was done before and during WWII.

Vladimir Putin has been offering the same bribe to Russian women,
only with Russian rubles rather than Italian lira. Not many Russian
women (if any) took him up on his offer.

--Lee

--
Make Sure Your Next Erection Is In Safe Hands

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Alan,

It was no surprise to anyone when Putin decided to invade Crimea,
and then annex it into Russia. It was also no surprise for any real
Ukrainian military resistance, as such military resistance was
virtually non-existent. All that US President Barack Obama could
do was protest and impose weak sanctions on Russia for its actions.
And of course, the UN condemned its actions, punishing Putin with
a wet noodle.

I don't recognize Putin's annexation of Crimea, does anyone?

Not me. Not the international community. Not anybody else I know of.

Obama did next to nothing. The world just shrugged its shoulders.
Putin got what he wanted, at very little cost. And that was just a
nibble of things to come.

Did Crimea ask for help?

Crimea is a part of Ukraine. Occupied by Russia at the moment.
Its people held against their will. Others being stateless. Or
being held in Russian gulags.

The people of Crimea are no better off today than they were before
Russia forcibly and illegally annexed that part of Ukraine as part
of Russia.

I wouldn't want to be a part of Russia but maybe the people of Crimea want that?

Crimea is not a part of Russia. Had the people of Russian-occupied
Crimea wanted to move to Russia, they would have done so voluntarily
long before Russia chose to invade and occupy their land.

A self-declared stable genius. Of course hindsight is always better
than foresight. But Trump always did speak warmly of Putin. Even before
he somehow managed to win the presidency.

Yes, he took the word of Putin over his own intelligence agencies.

He did travel to Moscow so he could pee on the bed that Bill Clinton
slept on. Not that impressed anybody (other than himself).

First he started by invading Crimea in 2014. Then he continued his war
by arming separatists in two more provinces of Ukraine. The day before
his full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Putin unilaterally recognized those
two areas as independent and separate states.

I'm not interested in the pronouncements of Putin.

In doing so, he voided the Minsk 2 Agreements. But then, he never
had any intention of keeping Russia's commitments to them in the first
place.

--Lee

--
Say it loud! Say it clear! / Refugees are welcome here!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello August,

Putin is a psychotic prick.

Is he? Or is it he simply likes little boys?

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna13743946


--Lee

--
Change Is Cumming

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

The days of the Tsar are over now.

Not in Putin's mind.

Yes, but nevertheless, The days of the Tsar are over.

This is a dream world of times past long ago.

This is Putin's dream of days to come.

Those days are over regardless of Putin's dreams.

Putin views Mother Russia as the bear, and Ukraine as the cub that
needs to be taught a lesson.

Symbolism. This is a war not a bear and her cubs.

All comedy is based on tragedy. An individual slips on a banana
peel and lands on his butt. We laugh. Even though it is a tragedy.

I have always thought the best comedy was based on truth.

Putin finds it funny that a comedian would dare defy his rule.
And now Putin has found himself the one who has slipped on a banana
peel. What do you think will be his reaction?

It must be disbelief. Putin has raised Zelensky to something of a hero. Something that wouldn't have happened if he had not blundered into this war.

Russia invaded Ukraine and will be expelled at great cost.

Putin is like a gorilla whose hand won't let go of a coconut
in the ground. He is incapable of escaping his own predicament.
But does his opposition have the will to finish what needs to
be done, or will it have mercy and free him to continue his ways?

Putin has demonstrated that he has the will. He hasn't faced much in the way of opposition. A few people quit and left Russia and a few others fired and imprisoned. The failure is not their fault but that is the way it works in Russia.

When the Donald was elected I thought that was a bad idea but I didn't
realize it would turn out so badly. I hope there will be no more such
presidents in the USA.

He could return to haunt us. You know that.

I don't think so. I was suprised it happened once, it could happen again but I doubt that very much. I worry more about Trump like sorts.

No, Putin is just about finished.

What a ridiculous thing to say. Just because Putin is pushing 70 does
not mean he is "just about finished."

Is it? I believe that is so. It's not about his age.

Donald Trump will be a young man of 78 if he is re-elected POTUS in 2024.
And Joe Biden will only be 82 years young if he wins a second consecutive term in 2024. And do keep in mind that Putin has a six-year term rather than a short four-year term. Plenty of time for him to prepare for the next election.

I don't think they are counting votes in Russia anymore than the are in Belarus.

When I say that Putin is done I am not talking about his presidency. I suppose he'll be there until he dies but he is done (or finished) now.

I don't blame the people of Russia although the events unfolding today are >> being done in the name of Russia. I hope that the people of Russia will
solve their kleptocracy issues and rejoin the world community at some
point.

The majority of Russians know and understand who and what Putin is.

Yes. It could be difficult, bloody in fact to affect any kind of change. It seems for now the status quo will have to do.

Although they would prefer a more rational leader, they are unable to
freely express their views, much less vote for the candidate of their
choice.

There is no choice of people or parties in Russia. There just isn't.

It is fantasy to believe Russia is still a democracy of any
kind. But people are not stupid. Not nearly as stupid as Putin would
like to believe.

Agreed.

That's a rather tall order but I hope they can do that somehow.

One day, like all men, Putin will die. And people everywhere around
the world (not just in Russia) will celebrate.

That is so.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

On 03-26-22 19:05, Alexander Koryagin <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Ukraine National Ant <=-

You are actually say that Putin wants to kill innocent civilian people
and wipe out Ukraine off the face of the earth. It is a not funny marasmus, and it is totally incorrect.

It is exactly what he is doing.

It difficult to say what is more insane - to build a military
fortified area inside big cities or storming them. But one thing is
clear -- Mariupol is a Russian speaking city, so the live of its
citizens are not important to nationalists who has made their houses
and flats into firing points.

So what that some people are Russian speaking. It does not make them
any less important to Ukraine, which is a multilingal country.

Occupation of Ukraine is not the Putin's aim. His aims are rather political.

You could fool me -- and the rest of the free world. His actions speak differently.

The main problem in this conflict, IMHO, is that Putin is so disliked
by so many people in the world that even if he does good things these things would be perceived negatively anyway.

And just what good things are he doing?

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)



... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 00:36:10, 27 Mar 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

Nukes have to be bluff.

A normal man might make a bluff of that. Do you think Putin is normal?

Would anyone in their right mind go along with such orders?

That is what military (and even some regular) people do. They have no thoughts of their own so they just follow orders.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Hi, August Abolins!
I read your message from 27.03.2022 03:50

WD>> Russia will do "anything" eventually and they will use
WD>> nukes if events do not unfold in their favor ... it will
WD>> melt the cities and vaporize it's remaining population ...
AA> Nukes have to be bluff. Would anyone in their right mind go
AA> along with such orders? Nuclear fallout knows no neat and tidy
AA> borders. Is Putin prepared to live the rest of his life in a
AA> bunker? There is no guarantee that radiation contamination will
AA> stop outside Russia. Hopefully, Putin's advisors and commrades
AA> would think it through.

How do you think -- if Putin be pushed against the wall and he strikes
London and New York with a couple of nukes - will these countries launch
only two strikes on Russian cities in response, or they will launch all
the nuke missiles they have, provoke Russia's respond with all its
missiles, and we will meet the end of the world?

Bye, August!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Lee Lofaso!
I read your message from 27.03.2022 06:02

LL> Crimea is a part of Ukraine. Occupied by Russia at the moment.
LL> Its people held against their will. Others being stateless. Or
LL> being held in Russian gulags.

Nevertheless I would not recommended anybody to make such statements not hearing the real people from Crimea. You can look funny.

Bye, Lee!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Alexander,

How do you think -- if Putin be pushed against the wall and he strikes London and New York with a couple of nukes - will these countries launch only two strikes on Russian cities in response, or they will launch all
the nuke missiles they have, provoke Russia's respond with all its missiles, and we will meet the end of the world?

Do you have balls?

In which case, rebel against the man ... rebel in any way possible because the greatest victim of this war is going to be Russia itself...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220222
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello alexander koryagin!

** On Sunday 27.03.22 - 15:52, alexander koryagin wrote to August Abolins:

How do you think -- if Putin be pushed against the wall
and he strikes London and New York with a couple of nukes
- will these countries launch only two strikes on Russian
cities in response, or they will launch all the nuke
missiles they have, provoke Russia's respond with all its
missiles, and we will meet the end of the world?

Do you believe that Putin has a deathwish and is willing to
perish?
--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: --> . <-- Oh look.. A point! (2:221/1.58)

Hello Alan Ianson!

** On Saturday 26.03.22 - 21:09, Alan Ianson wrote to Lee Lofaso:

Putin finds it funny that a comedian would dare defy his
rule. And now Putin has found himself the one who has
slipped on a banana peel. What do you think will be his
reaction?

It must be disbelief. Putin has raised Zelensky to
something of a hero. Something that wouldn't have happened
if he had not blundered into this war.

Putin could have restricted the affairs purely diplomatically
and appear to be the wiser man. But initiating the military
push makes him look like a loser.

--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: --> . <-- Oh look.. A point! (2:221/1.58)

Hello Alan,

Nukes have to be bluff.

A normal man might make a bluff of that. Do you think Putin is normal?

Would anyone in their right mind go along with such orders?

That is what military (and even some regular) people do. They have no thoughts of their own so they just follow orders.

The "I was just following orders" defense is no excuse, as those
put on trial at Nuremburg found out.

Soldiers have a duty and an obligation to refuse to obey an illegal
order. Otherwise, they are just as complicit as the officer who gave
them them the order in committing the crime.

--Lee

--
Nothing sucks like an Electrolux

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hi, Alan Ianson!
I read your message from 26.03.2022 23:25

ak>> They tried and it was clear once more that such missions are
ak>> impossible without great destruction of the cities, and it
ak>> undermine very much the reason of intrusion as "help for the
ak>> common Ukrainian people" to people living in that cities.

AI> Don't be silly. Did Ukraine ask for help? No?

Russian people in eastern Ukraine really did ask for help.

ak>>>> And I repeat all victims and distraction could be avoided if
ak>>>> Zelensky would choose a peaceful scenario. Peaceful resistance
ak>>>> to the Russian troops could be more effective. No killed, no
ak>>>> distruction. Another matter that too many people in Ukraine
ak>>>> really want to fight.

AI> Zelensky was not the one who invaded a peaceful sovereign nation.
AI> Russia did and Russia will pay for their aggression.

Yes, but he must spare his people if he is their president. It is clear
that nobody wants to make slaves from Ukrainians or eliminate them or Ukkraine. But telling the troops to stay till the last soldier he kills
them actually. And the problem anyway will be solved during negotiations.

ak>> Yes. Ukrainians could create an atmosphere of rejection, defiance
ak>> and, simultaneously, there was no reason for bloodshed and
ak>> shooting. Russian military would understand that they are not
ak>> welcome and there is absolutely no sense for their patrols,
ak>> checkpoints etc. It could be peacefully delivered to Putin that
ak>> his "help" and "liberation" are not need here and the sooner he
ak>> gets out the better would be for all. Do you know -- spilt blood
ak>> entangles all conflicts.

AI> Russia began the war by bombing Ukraine. Do you think that is
AI> bloodless?

Zenlensky could solve the Donbass problem peacefully. But he was not
allowed, by those who are controlling him.

AI> The Russian military is clear today their "help" and "liberation"
AI> are not wanted if it wasn't clear already (it should have been).
AI> Does that stop them? No.

Any army is dull pack of guard dogs. They must do what they are ordered.
I am sure that Ukrainians from eastern Russian speaking Ukrainian cities
would be happy if Ukrainian troops would get out of their cities and
preserve them intact.

Bye, Alan!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Alan Ianson!
I read your message from 26.03.2022 23:25

ak>> The main problem in this conflict, IMHO, is that Putin is so
ak>> disliked by so many people in the world that even if he does good
ak>> things these things would be perceived negatively anyway.

AI> Russia is not doing anything good in Ukraine.

I said it in general. A bad reputation marks badly any deeds.

Bye, Alan!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Dale Shipp!
I read your message from 27.03.2022 00:31

AK>> It difficult to say what is more insane - to build a military
AK>> fortified area inside big cities or storming them. But one thing
AK>> is clear -- Mariupol is a Russian speaking city, so the live of
AK>> its citizens are not important to nationalists who has made their
AK>> houses and flats into firing points.

DS> So what that some people are Russian speaking. It does not make
DS> them any less important to Ukraine, which is a multilingal country.

In 1940 Paris was given up to Hitler and remained in one piece without victims. The war should be on the battle fields. The civilians should
not be used as shield for good for nothing troops.

<skipped>
AK>> The main problem in this conflict, IMHO, is that Putin is so
AK>> disliked by so many people in the world that even if he does good
AK>> things these things would be perceived negatively anyway.

DS> And just what good things are he doing?

Every person can do good and bad things.

Bye, Dale!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, August Abolins!
I read your message from 27.03.2022 20:25

ak>> How do you think -- if Putin be pushed against the wall
ak>> and he strikes London and New York with a couple of nukes
ak>> - will these countries launch only two strikes on Russian
ak>> cities in response, or they will launch all the nuke
ak>> missiles they have, provoke Russia's respond with all its
ak>> missiles, and we will meet the end of the world?
AA> Do you believe that Putin has a deathwish and is willing to
AA> perish?

We all die sooner or later. ;-) It was a speculative assumption and I
just wanted to listen to some opinions.

Bye, August!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Don't be silly. Did Ukraine ask for help? No?

Russian people in eastern Ukraine really did ask for help.

This statement is also silly. Did Ukraine ask Russia for help? Answer that.

Zelensky was not the one who invaded a peaceful sovereign nation.
Russia did and Russia will pay for their aggression.

Yes, but he must spare his people if he is their president.

Zelensky did not put his people in danger. Russia has attacked them with weapons of mass destruction.

The Ukrainian people are not in danger from Zelesky, they are in danger from Russia.

Russia began the war by bombing Ukraine. Do you think that is
bloodless?

Zenlensky could solve the Donbass problem peacefully. But he was not
allowed, by those who are controlling him.

You didn't answer my question. Do you think a military invasion is bloodless? The blood of this war is squarely on Russian hands.

The Russian military is clear today their "help" and "liberation"
are not wanted if it wasn't clear already (it should have been).
Does that stop them? No.

Any army is dull pack of guard dogs. They must do what they are ordered.
I am sure that Ukrainians from eastern Russian speaking Ukrainian cities would be happy if Ukrainian troops would get out of their cities and
preserve them intact.

Yes, it is. In any case the Russia gov't and military are clear today that the Ukrainian people do not want/need liberation.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Russia is not doing anything good in Ukraine.

I said it in general. A bad reputation marks badly any deeds.

I also said it in general. Russia is not doing anything good in Ukraine.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Hello, alexander!

Monday March 28 2022 09:36, you wrote to Dale Shipp:

In 1940 Paris was given up to Hitler and remained in one piece without
victims. The war should be on the battle fields. The civilians should
not be used as shield for good for nothing troops.

Do you remember how Kiev was mined by rerteating Russian forces during WWII and then blown up?
Was it ok for you?

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello alexander koryagin!

** On Monday 28.03.22 - 09:45, alexander koryagin wrote to August Abolins:

- will these countries launch only two strikes on Russian
cities in response, or they will launch all the nuke
missiles they have, provoke Russia's respond with all its
missiles, and we will meet the end of the world?

Do you believe that Putin has a deathwish and is willing to
perish?

We all die sooner or later. ;-) It was a speculative assumption and I just wanted to listen to some opinions.

Are you ok with your leader, Putin, deciding when YOU need to
die?

--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: --> . <-- Oh look.. A point! (2:221/1.58)

Hello alexander koryagin!

** On Monday 28.03.22 - 09:36, alexander koryagin wrote to Dale Shipp:

In 1940 Paris was given up to Hitler and remained in one
piece without victims. [...]

Baloney. The Nazis took over many elite locales, established
"offices", confiscated art, pillaged, disrupted many lives,
disposed of the Jews no doubt, etc.. Hitler led by fear and
lies. Hitler and Putin seem to share many qualities.

--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: --> . <-- Oh look.. A point! (2:221/1.58)

Hello Alexander,

How do you think -- if Putin be pushed against the wall
and he strikes London and New York with a couple of nukes
- will these countries launch only two strikes on Russian
cities in response, or they will launch all the nuke
missiles they have, provoke Russia's respond with all its
missiles, and we will meet the end of the world?

Do you believe that Putin has a deathwish and is willing to
perish?

We all die sooner or later. ;-) It was a speculative assumption and I just wanted to listen to some opinions.

We all know Vladimir Putin is a paranoid megalomaniac with visions
of grandeur who is hellbent on starting WWIII. Will he ever see the
end of what he starts? I think we all know the answer to that ...

--Lee

--
I won't fan the flames of hate, ~Joe Biden

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Dmitry,

In 1940 Paris was given up to Hitler and remained in one piece without
victims. The war should be on the battle fields. The civilians should
not be used as shield for good for nothing troops.

Do you remember how Kiev was mined by rerteating Russian forces during WWII
and then blown up?

I don't know about Kiev. But Kyiv most certainly was.

Was it ok for you?

Everybody loves a good bonfire. As long as they are not the fuel.

--Lee

--
Impossible is nothing

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

On 03-28-22 09:36, Alexander Koryagin <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Ukraine National Ant <=-

The main problem in this conflict, IMHO, is that Putin is so
disliked by so many people in the world that even if he does good
things these things would be perceived negatively anyway.

And just what good things are he doing?

Every person can do good and bad things.

Since you refuse to give any specific answer, one can assume that you do
not know of any good things that Putin has done.

EOT

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 00:38:08, 29 Mar 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

Hi, August Abolins!
I read your message from 28.03.2022 20:22

ak>>>> - will these countries launch only two strikes on
ak>>>> Russian cities in response, or they will launch all
ak>>>> the nuke missiles they have, provoke Russia's
ak>>>> respond with all its missiles, and we will meet the
ak>>>> end of the world?
AA>>> Do you believe that Putin has a deathwish and is
AA>>> willing to perish?
ak>> We all die sooner or later.;-) It was a speculative
ak>> assumption and I just wanted to listen to some opinions.
AA> Are you ok with your leader, Putin, deciding when YOU need to
AA> die?

I am not happy with the situation at all. I just wanted to listen to
some opinions on my question.

Bye, August!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, August Abolins!
I read your message from 28.03.2022 20:26

ak>> In 1940 Paris was given up to Hitler and remained in one
ak>> piece without victims. [...]
AA> Baloney. The Nazis took over many elite locales, established
AA> "offices", confiscated art, pillaged, disrupted many lives,
AA> disposed of the Jews no doubt, etc.. Hitler led by fear and
AA> lies. Hitler and Putin seem to share many qualities.

The military should use dense populated areas of cities to hide in.
Certainly their citizens will be happy to kick the Ukraine military up
the arse from the cities. Humans should not be a shield.

Bye, August!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

The military should use dense populated areas of cities to hide in.
Certainly their citizens will be happy to kick the Ukraine military up
the arse from the cities. Humans should not be a shield.

Indeed it is Russias soldiers who have been using civilians as a shield in Mariupol. Specifically doctors, nurses and patients in a hospital there.

You are not going to get any facts from state TV in Russia so I am not surprised that you don't know this.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Hi, Alan Ianson!
I read your message from 28.03.2022 10:29


ak>> Any army is dull pack of guard dogs. They must do what they are
ak>> ordered. I am sure that Ukrainians from eastern Russian speaking
ak>> Ukrainian cities would be happy if Ukrainian troops would get out
ak>> of their cities and preserve them intact.

AI> Yes, it is. In any case the Russia gov't and military are clear
AI> today that the Ukrainian people do not want/need liberation.

Another question do they want their cities to be defended in such a way
as it does the Ukraine military.

Bye, Alan!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Yes, it is. In any case the Russia gov't and military are clear
today that the Ukrainian people do not want/need liberation.

Another question do they want their cities to be defended in such a way
as it does the Ukraine military.

Ehrrr ... scuze me?

They have been invidad by a foe intent to kill and destroy indiscriminately.

How do you suggest they defend themselves? Holding up banners saying "Russia Go Home"?

The destruction and carnage is Russian invoked. Ukrainians cannot be blamed for defending themselves.

Close to 5 weeks into this war, it's time for Russia to admit it was completely wrong and misguided instead of announcing everything is going as planned... the reality is it's going anything but planned. the idea was to break resistance in a few days and be done with it within the week and Ukrainians would be welcoming them as liberators ... it just did not happen ...

But keep scraping the bottom of the barrel if that makes you happy, other than any of the troll factory addicts no-one here is going to take you serious ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220222
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello Dmitry,

In 1940 Paris was given up to Hitler and remained in one piece without
victims. The war should be on the battle fields. The civilians should
not be used as shield for good for nothing troops.

Do you remember how Kiev was mined by rerteating Russian forces during WWII
and then blown up?
Was it ok for you?

I cannot imagine either you or Alexander as being that old ...

--Lee

--
Sleep With Someone New

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, Lee!

Monday March 28 2022 19:38, you wrote to me:

Do you remember how Kiev was mined by rerteating Russian forces
during WWII and then blown up?

I don't know about Kiev. But Kyiv most certainly was.

For Russian speaker "Kiev" is more familiar word :)

Kyiv is very new spelling, from late 90s.


Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, Lee!

Tuesday March 29 2022 08:56, you wrote to me:

Do you remember how Kiev was mined by rerteating Russian forces
during WWII and then blown up? Was it ok for you?

I cannot imagine either you or Alexander as being that old ...

It's easy to remember facts without seeing them with you own eyes. I've tried that with atomic theory and had no major problems so far.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Yes, it is. In any case the Russia gov't and military are clear
today that the Ukrainian people do not want/need liberation.

Another question do they want their cities to be defended in such a way
as it does the Ukraine military.

When you are attacked (as is the case in Ukraine) you defend yourself where you are with what you have to the best of your ability.

The Ukrainian military has done a good job in the defence of their country with what they have. The Russian military was knocking on the door of Kyiv but has now been pushed back. I bet you never hear that on your TV, or at what cost to the lives of Russian soldiers.

All lives matter.

No war.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Hello, alexander!

Tuesday March 29 2022 10:37, you wrote to Alan Ianson:

Yes, it is. In any case the Russia gov't and military are clear
today that the Ukrainian people do not want/need liberation.

Another question do they want their cities to be defended in such a
way as it does the Ukraine military.

When Russian soldiers were fighting in Donetsk you were ok with that?

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Another question do they want their cities to be defended in such a way
as it does the Ukraine military.

They often have no defenders as in this case.

https://youtu.be/2tz7stTA_Bo

The Russian military is not defending anyone in Ukraine, they are attacking even civilians.

--
Any people, and even more so the Russian people, will always be able to distinguish true patriots from scum and traitors and simply spit them out like a fly that accidentally flew into the mouth, spit them out, I am convinced that such a natural and necessary cleansing of society will only strengthen our country.
-Vladamir Putin, March 2022

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Hello Alan,

Yes, it is. In any case the Russia gov't and military are clear
today that the Ukrainian people do not want/need liberation.

Another question do they want their cities to be defended in such a way
as it does the Ukraine military.

When you are attacked (as is the case in Ukraine) you defend yourself where
you are with what you have to the best of your ability.

And without help from the outside world, how long do you think
Ukrainians would have successfully been able to defend themselves?
Days, perhaps a week or two?

The Ukrainian military has done a good job in the defence of their country with what they have.

Even with help from the outside world, that help is not nearly enough.

The Russian military was knocking on the door of Kyiv but has now been pushed back.

The Russian military is merely reposturing. Not giving up on taking
Kyiv. Cities are continuing to be bombed, including Kyiv. The Russian
military is not planning to leave Ukraine any time soon.

I bet you never hear that on your TV, or at what cost to the lives of Russian soldiers.

That is not what Putin cares about.

All lives matter.

That is also not what Putin cares about.

No war.

There should never be any wars. Anywhere.

However, there is a bright side.

This is the last one.

Or rather the second to last one, as the next one will be fought
with sticks and stones.

You see, WWIII has already begun.

I never thought that Russia would invade Ukraine, a democratic
country with aspirations of joining NATO.

I never thought the rest of the world would stand by and watch all
this carnage and destruction without interventing militarily. A madman committing war crimes bombing innocent civilians and using munitions
that have been banned for decades. A madman who is stopped by no one
or no country.

I have said this before. President Joe Biden is too weak. The leaders
of Europe are too weak. What we have in NATO is a group of paper tigers.
Nobody wants to stand up to the madman.

All these politicians fear to stand up to intervene militarily against
Russia. They fear it would be a mistake. Why? Not that the madman has
nukes. After all, several countries have nukes. What they fear is a
madman who might actually use them, even if just to do it.

Of course, standing up to a madman would likely cause a world war and
result in widespread annilihation of life on this planet as we know it.

Which is what every sane person wants to avoid.

Only it won't.

The world's choice to not intervene military is a far larger mistake
than by doing so now while it still can.

You do understand why.

If no one stops the madman now, what is to stop him later?
The madman will be tempted to invade a NATO country next, knowing
the world has done nothing and will continue to do nothing.
Before you know it, he will have recreated his own version of the
Soviet Union and made himself Czar of Russia (and all of the
Orthodox world).

If Article 5 stands, the end result would be the same - a nuclear
world war.

So what is there to lose?

You see, in order to understand a madman, you have to think like a
madman. So here is my solution <madness setting in> -

By refusing to help Ukraine now by committing troops on the ground
to stop the madman, the world is just postponing the inevitable.
As well as sacrificing Ukraine in the process.

US President Joe Biden says the madman should not remain in power.
But chooses to do nothing about it.

No tanks, airplanes, or any other real military necessities to Ukraine.
And definitely no US troops on the ground. Or NATO troops. Can't do
that. Better to let Ukraine fight for itself, all by its lonesome.

What a bunch of wimps.

Cowards. Every single one of them.

And the madman laughs. For good reason.

So. We might as well be done with it.

Send in the clowns. All of them. One is already there. In Kyiv.
He should be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for his effots.

BRING IT ON, BABY! BRING IT ON!

--Lee

--
Because not everyone likes licorice

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Dmitry,

Do you remember how Kiev was mined by rerteating Russian forces
during WWII and then blown up?

I don't know about Kiev. But Kyiv most certainly was.

For Russian speaker "Kiev" is more familiar word :)

Times change.

Kyiv is very new spelling, from late 90s.

New for those outside of Kyiv, perhaps. But it is more than that.
People continue to say "the Ukraine" rather than "Ukraine". What
a grammatical snafu. One can say "the USA" and be grammatically
correct. One can say "the Netherlands" and be grammatically correct.
One can say "the Philippines" and be grammatically correct. But
nobody says "the Russia" or "the France" or "the Italy" or "the
Japan". So why would anybody want to say "the Ukraine"?

--Lee

--
Nobody Beats Our Meat

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Dmitry,

Do you remember how Kiev was mined by rerteating Russian forces
during WWII and then blown up? Was it ok for you?

I cannot imagine either you or Alexander as being that old ...

It's easy to remember facts without seeing them with you own eyes.

Yuri Gagarin was not the first man in space.
Neil Armstrong was not the first man to walk on the Moon.
But hey. Nobody would believe me if I told them.
So what do I know?

I've tried that with atomic theory and had no major problems so far.

The crew of the Enola Gay watched Hiroshima bloom into a mushroom
cloud. Nobody could understand what caused that to happen ...

--Lee

--
Travel should take you places

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hi, Alan Ianson!
I read your message from 29.03.2022 10:36

ak>> The military should use dense populated areas of cities to hide
ak>> in. Certainly their citizens will be happy to kick the Ukraine
ak>> military up the arse from the cities. Humans should not be a
ak>> shield.

AI> Indeed it is Russias soldiers who have been using civilians as a
AI> shield in Mariupol. Specifically doctors, nurses and patients in a
AI> hospital there.

Well, as it can be understood here -- the Russain soldiers sat in the
hospital in Mariupol and they used the patients as a shield to defend themselves from Ukrainian shells. ;-)) Ha-ha

Bye, Alan!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Well, as it can be understood here -- the Russain soldiers sat in the hospital in Mariupol and they used the patients as a shield to defend themselves from Ukrainian shells. ;-)) Ha-ha

Plus reports of increasing sexual abuse by Russian soldiers ...

If all war crimes which so far have been committed by Russia and its troops were to be prosecuted before the Tribunal in The Heague, the agenda would be full for the next decades ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220222
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 29.03.2022 10:51

AI>>> Yes, it is. In any case the Russia gov't and military are clear
AI>>> today that the Ukrainian people do not want/need liberation.

ak>> Another question do they want their cities to be defended in such
ak>> a way as it does the Ukraine military.
WD> Ehrrr... scuze me?

WD> They have been invidad by a foe intent to kill and destroy
WD> indiscriminately.

WD> How do you suggest they defend themselves? Holding up banners
WD> saying "Russia Go Home"?

The current invasion has never implied killing civilians, making them
Russian slaves, depriving Ukraine independence etc. Hiding in cities by Ukraine troops is just a revenge to Russian speaking population in these cities. Ukraine troops were afraid that people will greet Russian troops.

WD> The destruction and carnage is Russian invoked. Ukrainians cannot
WD> be blamed for defending themselves.

Using civilians as a shield is a crime.

<skipped>
WD> But keep scraping the bottom of the barrel if that makes you happy,
WD> other than any of the troll factory addicts no-one here is going to
WD> take you serious...

There are some people who like to speak for behave of all others.
Probably these people consider themselves more cleaver than other people.

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 29.03.2022 11:01

DP>>> Do you remember how Kiev was mined by rerteating
DP>>> Russian forces during WWII and then blown up?
LL>> I don't know about Kiev. But Kyiv most certainly was.
DP> For Russian speaker "Kiev" is more familiar word:)
DP> Kyiv is very new spelling, from late 90s.

Englishmen anyway cannot pronounce that sound for "Kyev or Pyvo" ;-)

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Alexander,

Ukraine troops were afraid that people will greet Russian troops.

Do you grow your own pot? Good stuff ...

Listen, there are foreign network correspondents and camerateams all over Ukraine. On the Ukrainian side they are free to move around, to photograph, to videograph, to write, to telephone ...

The crews which are reporting from the Russian side and the Dombas are restricted in every possible way ...

Russian troops were not welcomed as liberators ... there are now in my small country already some 20.000 Ukrainian refugees, we are still looking for the firstone stating he/she fled the liberation of his/her country...

Get real ... but of course, you won't ... your mind poisened for years by a kind of propaganda the world hasn't seen before ... or maybe you are just part of the system ...

Take care,

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220222
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hi, Alan Ianson!
I read your message from 29.03.2022 11:30

ak>>> Yes, it is. In any case the Russia gov't and military are clear
ak>>> today that the Ukrainian people do not want/need liberation.
AI>> Another question do they want their cities to be defended in such
AI>> a way as it does the Ukraine military.

AI> When you are attacked (as is the case in Ukraine) you defend
AI> yourself where you are with what you have to the best of your
AI> ability.

AI> The Ukrainian military has done a good job in the defence of their
AI> country with what they have. The Russian military was knocking on
AI> the door of Kyiv but has now been pushed back. I bet you never hear
AI> that on your TV, or at what cost to the lives of Russian soldiers.

AI> All lives matter.

If you meet a pack of hooligans it is crazy to fight with them until
death while it is possible to negotiate with them. ;-)

Bye, Alan!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 29.03.2022 11:33

AI>>> Yes, it is. In any case the Russia gov't and military
AI>>> are clear today that the Ukrainian people do not
AI>>> want/need liberation.
ak>> Another question do they want their cities to be defended
ak>> in such a way as it does the Ukraine military.
DP> When Russian soldiers were fighting in Donetsk you were ok with
DP> that?

You know very well that the Donetsk civilans quarters has never been
used as the places for setting up artillery and missile launchers. All
the rebels military fights around the city. You probably don't
understand -- they could not do it because there families lives there.

The current shelling of Donetsk (yes, it is still under shell and
missiles fire) by Ukrainian troops has no aims and they shoot civilian quarters indiscriminately.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Alan Ianson!
I read your message from 29.03.2022 12:21

??>>> Another question do they want their cities to be
??>>> defended in such a way
??>> >as it does the Ukraine military.
AI> They often have no defenders as in this case.
AI> https://youtu.be/2tz7stTA_Bo
AI> The Russian military is not defending anyone in Ukraine, they
AI> are attacking even civilians.

I imagine a great and fucking title in an American newspaper:
"11-year-old girl shot in face by Russian soldier!!!"

;-\

Bye, Alan!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

And without help from the outside world, how long do you think
Ukrainians would have successfully been able to defend themselves?
Days, perhaps a week or two?

They get by with a little help from there friends. Don't we all?

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Hi, Lee Lofaso!
I read your message from 30.03.2022 11:20

LL> New for those outside of Kyiv, perhaps. But it is more than
LL> that. People continue to say "the Ukraine" rather than
LL> "Ukraine". What a grammatical snafu. One can say "the USA" and
LL> be grammatically correct. One can say "the Netherlands" and be
LL> grammatically correct. One can say "the Philippines" and be
LL> grammatically correct. But nobody says "the Russia" or "the
LL> France" or "the Italy" or "the Japan". So why would anybody
LL> want to say "the Ukraine"?

IMHO, it is a historical issue. "Ukraine" was derived from the Russian
word Okraina (a border region/area). One time it was really a border
region of Russia. You probably can say that you live in the New York outskirts/okraina. If you have outskirts in one direction only you can probably will call the area "The Outskirts". Now they say "the" is not necessary.

Bye, Lee!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

alexander koryagin wrote to Alan Ianson <=-

AI> Indeed it is Russias soldiers who have been using civilians as a
AI> shield in Mariupol. Specifically doctors, nurses and patients in a
AI> hospital there.

Well, as it can be understood here -- the Russain soldiers sat in the hospital in Mariupol and they used the patients as a shield to defend themselves from Ukrainian shells. ;-)) Ha-ha

I'm glad you see and undertand the truth.


Ttyl :-),
Al

... Between two evils, I always pick the one I never tried before.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

alexander koryagin wrote to Alan Ianson <=-

If you meet a pack of hooligans it is crazy to fight with them until
death while it is possible to negotiate with them. ;-)

I suppose, but we are not talking about hooligans here.


Ttyl :-),
Al

... Logic and practical information do not seem to apply here.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

alexander koryagin wrote to Alan Ianson <=-

I imagine a great and fucking title in an American newspaper:
"11-year-old girl shot in face by Russian soldier!!!"

Fucking, no although that has also happened to young women in Mariupol being raped by Russian soldiers.


Ttyl :-),
Al

... Beware of programmers who carry screwdrivers.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

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Hello, alexander!

Wednesday March 30 2022 12:18, you wrote to me:

For Russian speaker "Kiev" is more familiar word:)
Kyiv is very new spelling, from late 90s.

Englishmen anyway cannot pronounce that sound for "Kyev or Pyvo" ;-)

As Russians cannot pronounce some sounds from Ukranian language. Famous "polianitsa", for example.

Best regards,
dp.

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*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Wednesday March 30 2022 12:35, you wrote to me:

want/need liberation.

Another question do they want their cities to be defended
in such a way as it does the Ukraine military.

When Russian soldiers were fighting in Donetsk you were ok with
that?

You know very well that the Donetsk civilans quarters has never been
used as the places for setting up artillery and missile launchers. All

I've seen with my own eyes video from quadcopter from Donetsk with heavy military vehicles.
So you are very wrong. Please don't spread false information.

the rebels military fights around the city. You probably don't

When they were fighting for city airport?

understand -- they could not do it because there families lives
there.

They will do whatever FSB will tell them.

The current shelling of Donetsk (yes, it is still under shell and
missiles fire) by Ukrainian troops has no aims and they shoot civilian
quarters indiscriminately.

There is a full scale war going on there! And yet Russian troops do not try to protect Donetsk, they are shelling Mariupol.

Best regards,
dp.

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Hello, alexander!

Wednesday March 30 2022 13:00, you wrote to Lee Lofaso:

IMHO, it is a historical issue. "Ukraine" was derived from the Russian
word Okraina (a border region/area). One time it was really a border region of Russia. You probably can say that you live in the New York

But at that time "Russia" was something with capital in Kyiv :)


Best regards,
dp.

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Hello Ward,

Well, as it can be understood here -- the Russain soldiers sat in the
hospital in Mariupol and they used the patients as a shield to defend
themselves from Ukrainian shells. ;-)) Ha-ha

Plus reports of increasing sexual abuse by Russian soldiers ...

That was between consenting adults. Except for those on the crazy farm.
In which case no consent was necessary. And then there are the juvenile delinquents, who always liked to rebel against their parents ...

If all war crimes which so far have been committed by Russia and its troops
were to be prosecuted before the Tribunal in The Heague, the agenda would be full for the next decades ...

Hey. It's only been a month. Wait four years for a better comparison
with Germany and Japan. That would be fair. Until then ...

--Lee

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Pay your taxes!

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Hello Alexander,

[..]

All lives matter.

If you meet a pack of hooligans it is crazy to fight with them until
death while it is possible to negotiate with them. ;-)

I do not think hooligans are interested in negotiation. They do what
they do until somebody makes them stop. It is the way of the world, and
has been since the beginning of time.

--Lee

--
Everybody Loves Our Buns

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Hello Alan,

And without help from the outside world, how long do you think
Ukrainians would have successfully been able to defend themselves?
Days, perhaps a week or two?

They get by with a little help from there friends. Don't we all?

I met Paul McCartney in New Orleans. Dressed as a clown in a Mardi
Gras parade. He was hoping nobody would spot him. Ringo was also
there. But he knew better than to dress as a clown, and chose not
to march in the parade.

--Lee

--
In solidarity - RIP George Floyd - Black Lives Matter

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