Europe is turning to the right.

What the USAians don't seem to understand, is that what's regarded as ultra-right here in Europe, is still far left of even the progressive Dems in the USA.


--
United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Europe is turning to the right.

What the USAians don't seem to understand, is that what's regarded as ultra-right here in Europe, is still far left of even the progressive
Dems in the USA.

Been saying that for years ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Ward Dossche wrote to Bj�rn Felten <=-

What the USAians don't seem to understand, is that what's regarded as ultra-right here in Europe, is still far left of even the progressive
Dems in the USA.

Been saying that for years ...

Do you think it's because we "don't understand", or that we DON'T CARE?

We already know you're commie-wannabes who prefer the government having complete control over your entire lives.



... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Been saying that for years ...

Do you think it's because we "don't understand", or that we DON'T CARE?

It simply is because there is no other option for you guys. From our vantage point the US Democratic party is very much to the right, and the GOP even more to the right. There is no-one in the center and no-one to the left ...

The Democrats are just as conservative as the Republicans, the latter however add a special flavour which meke them appear as more conservative, but in reality it's just the same.

In 50 years of visiting in over a hundred voyages, I hardly notice a change in the mindset. Sometimes there's an opening towards the center to make something happen, but these efforts are always drowned by the combined Democrats and Republicans making so many waves that any other effort is elbowed out.

The US has no progressive parties.

Take care,

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

On 25 Sep 22 17:25:20, Ward Dossche said the following to Dan Clough:

It simply is because there is no other option for you guys. From our vantag point the US Democratic party is very much to the right, and the GOP even m to the right. There is no-one in the center and no-one to the left ...

There is a compulsive need for your side to shove your "vantage points" down our throats at any given opportunity. Because Janis, Roy, Seaborn, Cassell, whoever thats dead or gone your side just keeps lecturing us all.

Nobody here cares jack-shit about Europe or especially fuckhole Sweden.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-

Been saying that for years ...

Do you think it's because we "don't understand", or that we DON'T CARE?

It simply is because there is no other option for you guys. From
our vantage point the US Democratic party is very much to the
right, and the GOP even more to the right.

Yeah. Sure. Your pal Beeeorn already said that, which you conveniently snipped out (above). Again - We DON'T CARE what your Euro-commie
opinion is, especially when you keep repeating yourselves.



... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Again - We DON'T CARE what your Euro-commie
opinion is, especially when you keep repeating yourselves.

Hmmmmok ... So why do you keep responding?

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Hello Bj�rn,

Europe is turning to the right.

What the USAians don't seem to understand, is that what's regarded as ultra-right here in Europe, is still far left of even the progressive Dems in the USA.

In a major speech to the nation, President Joe Biden referred
to MAGA Republicans as "semi-fascists" - which got more than a
few folks upset about having been shown such disrespect.

But few seem to realize that Donald Trump started it, as it was
shown in a 2020 video clip of him exclaiming that Democrats want
to "replace American freedom with left-wing fascism. Fascists,
they are fascists."

Now, I have no idea if either of those leaders know the definition
of "fascist." However, Trump's past behavior does not justify Biden's
present behavior.

Here is the problem with Godwin's Law -

Should we ignore it in the present and allow individuals to suffer
no consequences of their latest actions?

Trump and his enablers have been the biggest users of "the past
as justification for the present" paradigm. Supporters serve as
enablers of Trump's abhorrent behaviors by justifying them based
on finding examples of similar, consequence-free behaviors by
others that occurred in the past.

Yes, Trump needs to man up and accept the consequences for his
own actions. Not that he will, or ever will. All Americans should
demand he receive the appropriate consequences. And yet, Trump
continues to do his own thing, consequence-free, to the glee
of all his supporters.

It is important to take responsibility for bettering our society,
and move beyond the likes of fascists and pseudo-fascists alike.

So the question is, when (if ever) will we do it?

For Life,
Lee

--
Why not enjoy the go?

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Nobody here cares jack-shit about Europe or especially fuckhole Sweden.

Europe is vital because it leads to stupid wars that affect CAN and the USA.

... Intelligence tests are biased toward the literate.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Inland Utopia Mail Center (1:218/109)

to "replace American freedom with left-wing fascism. Fascists,
they are fascists."

Left wing fascism is demonstrated in places such as Portland Oregon.

... Electricity is really just organized lightning.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Inland Utopia Mail Center (1:218/109)

On 25 Sep 22 15:53:52, Matt Munson said the following to Nick Andre:

Nobody here cares jack-shit about Europe or especially fuckhole Sweden

Europe is vital because it leads to stupid wars that affect CAN and the USA

But it doesn't matter to people here in some silly hobby net with less than maybe a dozen people reading.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

But it doesn't matter to people here in some silly hobby net with less than maybe a dozen people reading.

It would be nice if it was a readership of 5-6 thousand people, instead of a few dozen.

... Shortcut: longest distance between two points

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Inland Utopia Mail Center (1:218/109)

Hello Matt,

to "replace American freedom with left-wing fascism. Fascists,
they are fascists."

Left wing fascism is demonstrated in places such as Portland Oregon.

"... when fascism comes to America, it will not be in brown and
black shirts. It will not be with jackboots. It will be Nike sneakers
and smiley shirts. Smiley-smiley."
~ George Carlin

Bill Maher thought he was joking. But we all know George Carlin was
the greatest social commentator of all time and really knew what he was
talking about. Bill & Ted can vouch on it.

For Life,
Lee

--
Travel should take you places

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Matt,

Nobody here cares jack-shit about Europe or especially fuckhole Sweden.

Europe is vital because it leads to stupid wars that affect CAN and the USA.

Trump wanted to withdraw the US from NATO.
Imagine the glee on Putin's face had that actually happened.
No war in Ukraine would have been necessary.
Russian troops would have stepped right in, unopposed.
And then marched into Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania ...

For Life,
Lee

--
As good as it looks

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Trump wanted to withdraw the US from NATO.

Trump and Putin are one .... the former got elected because of the intervention of the latter .... we have escaped .... narrowly ....

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Hello Ward,

Trump wanted to withdraw the US from NATO.

Trump and Putin are one .... the former got elected because of the intervention of the latter .... we have escaped .... narrowly ....

Escaped? Escaped from what?

For Life,
Lee

--
Sleep With Someone New

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Matt,

But it doesn't matter to people here in some silly hobby net with less
than maybe a dozen people reading.

It would be nice if it was a readership of 5-6 thousand people, instead of a
few dozen.

Then quit talking about it and make it happen.

For Life,
Lee

--
Change Is Cumming

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Trump wanted to withdraw the US from NATO.

Ive been anti-internationalist before Trump got elected. I want the USA to pull out of the UN.

... Enter any 12-digit prime number to continue.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Inland Utopia Mail Center (1:218/109)

Trump wanted to withdraw the US from NATO.

Ive been anti-internationalist before Trump got elected. I want the USA
to pull out of the UN.

I've worked for the UN at certain periods during my life and I agree I've never seen the amount of money-wasting at the level it goes on there.

The US at several times has expressed the desire to leave the UN, certainly during the period when John Bolton was the US-embassador to the UN.

Then it was proposed to move the UN headquarters to Paris-France and the words of Bolton and others were quickly quelched when it became clear what kind of a moneymaker the UN are for the city of New York plus the loss of prominence in international politics for the US.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Ukraine had a lot ways and time to prevent the war.

How many years in prison will you get for calling Mad Vlad's "special military operation" a war? Or maybe the troll factory workers are exempt from normal Russian law?


--
United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hi, Bj?rn Felten!
I read your message from 03.10.2022 12:06

ak>> Ukraine had a lot ways and time to prevent the war.
BF> How many years in prison will you get for calling Mad
BF> Vlad's "special military operation" a war? Or maybe the troll
BF> factory workers are exempt from normal Russian law?

There is no punishment for that, I assure you, although the state
control media must use "special military operation".
Besides, in Ukraine a person can really be persecuted if he tries to
refer the events in Donbass as a civil war that started in 2014.

Bye, Bj?rn!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

There is no punishment for that, I assure you, although the state
control media must use "special military operation".

And 'special' it is ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Hello Bj�rn,

Ukraine had a lot ways and time to prevent the war.

How many years in prison will you get for calling Mad Vlad's "special military operation" a war? Or maybe the troll factory workers are exempt from normal Russian law?

I'll let Noam Chomsky answer your silly questions -

https://chomsky.info/20220414/


Think it out.
This stupid war can end only in one of two ways -

1. Either Russia is totally destroyed, or Ukraine is totally destroyed.
Russia will not be totally destroyed. So Russia wins in the long run.

2. Negotiations between the two sides and an agreement is reached.
Neither side is willing to negotiate in good faith, so the destruction continues.

Professor Chomsky is 93 years old. It did not take him long to figure
out what was going on, as this piece was dated several months ago.

Why does the US and its NATO allies continue to urge Ukraine to
fight to the last man? Think about who is doing the actual fighting,
and paying the price.

For Life,
Lee

--
Get Her Wet Here

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Lee Lofaso wrote to Bj�rn Felten <=-

How many years in prison will you get for calling Mad Vlad's "special military operation" a war? Or maybe the troll factory workers are exempt from normal Russian law?

I'll let Noam Chomsky answer your silly questions -

<SNIP>

You're talking to yourself again, Beeeorn.



... Internal Error: The system has been taken over by sheep at line 19960
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 03.10.2022 19:24

ak>> There is no punishment for that, I assure you, although the
ak>> state control media must use "special military operation".
WD> And 'special' it is ...

Until February, for the civil war in Donbass Ukrainian media must use
the term "KTO" (contr-terror operation). And all who fight against the
new power in Kiev are called terrorists.

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Lee Lofaso!
I read your message from 04.10.2022 01:18

LL> Think it out.
LL> This stupid war can end only in one of two ways -
LL> 1. Either Russia is totally destroyed, or Ukraine is totally
LL> destroyed. Russia will not be totally destroyed. So Russia wins
LL> in the long run. 2. Negotiations between the two sides and an
LL> agreement is reached. Neither side is willing to negotiate in
LL> good faith, so the destruction continues.

We can model the situation with Russia and Ukraine in this way:

Suppose modern Israel has finally been divided into Palestine and
Israel, and some areas with Jewish population stayed in the Palestine
part after the agreement that all the people will be equally and fairly treated. But after a time a coup happens in Palestine, and Hamas
captures the power and declared that all people in the country are now
Arabs, they must speak Arabs, cut tied with Israel etc. Naturally, the
Jewish community refused to follow such orders. Hamas starts a military offensive to Jewish areas. Well, it is all happening under the Israel
nose. ;-) What will happen next to newly independent Palestine? Will we
hear hysteria from Arab neighbours, sanctions and so on?

Bye, Lee!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

We can model the situation with Russia and Ukraine in this way:

You continue to bypass the issue ... the war started by Russia invading a bona-fide peaceful country ...

The only thing to do for the war to stop is for Russia to stop fighting and withdraw to positions of Feb.23rd ... I assure you, the Ukrainian army will immediately stop fighting the agressor.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

���ண� �६�窠, Ward Dossche.
�� ��ᠫ� 04.10.22 12:00:

We can model the situation with Russia and Ukraine in this way:

You continue to bypass the issue ... the war started by Russia invading a bona-fide peaceful
country ...

So what? You eat this too. We had good "teachers" with "national interests" all over the world. What we fought for, that's what we ran into.

The only thing to do for the war to stop is for Russia to stop fighting and withdraw to
positions of Feb.23rd ... I assure you, the Ukrainian army will immediately stop fighting the
agressor.

Naive... blessed is he who believes ;)

--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: 27 ��� � ����... ��-�-�� �� �������... (2:50/700)

���ண� �६�窠, alexander koryagin.
�� ��ᠫ� 04.10.22 10:59:

Until February, for the civil war in Donbass Ukrainian media must use the term "KTO"
(contr-terror operation). And all who fight against the new power in Kiev are called
terrorists.

ATO - anti-terror operation. KTO was at Chechnya.

--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: 27 ��� � ����... ��-�-�� �� �������... (2:50/700)

Hello Oleg,

Naive... blessed is he who believes ;)

He who believes is religious ... religious people believe stuff for which there is no explanation nor scientific proof ... a little bit like the Putin groupies ...

Besides, here's some good stuff for you ...

https://tinyurl.com/2p9xd5xu

Have phun,

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

���ண� �६�窠, Ward Dossche.
�� ��ᠫ� 06.10.22 0:28:

Naive... blessed is he who believes ;)

He who believes is religious ... religious people believe stuff for which there is no
explanation nor scientific proof ... a little bit like the Putin groupies ...

We believes is Russia.


--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: 27 ��� � ����... ��-�-�� �� �������... (2:50/700)

Oleg,

We believes is Russia.

That in itself is good, but it's not a James Bond movie "License to kill".

On the index of nationality quality, your country ranks 79th on a total of 210. Colombia, Panama, Dominica, China, Venezuela, Paraguay, Barbados, Malaysia, Cyprus and a bunch of others are ranked better. You have work to do .... start by removing the Poeteen-guy.

And, never underestimate the power of human stupidity.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

���ண� �६�窠, Ward Dossche.
�� ��ᠫ� 06.10.22 9:23:

We believes is Russia.

That in itself is good, but it's not a James Bond movie "License to kill". On the index of
nationality quality, your country ranks 79th on a total of 210. Colombia, Panama, Dominica,
China, Venezuela, Paraguay, Barbados, Malaysia, Cyprus and a bunch of others are ranked
better. You have work to do .... start by removing the Poeteen-guy. And, never underestimate
the power of human stupidity.

yes, where are we, up to your superior race... Wait, we've heard that somewhere before... Hitler came to a bad end. All the higher races will be there, it's so predictable. But traditionally, it will come unexpectedly late to stupid you.

--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: 27 ��� � ����... ��-�-�� �� �������... (2:50/700)

Hello Oleg Nazaroff!

** On Thursday 06.10.22 - 11:59, Oleg Nazaroff wrote to Ward Dossche:

yes, where are we, up to your superior race... Wait, we've
heard that somewhere before... Hitler came to a bad end.
All the higher races will be there, it's so predictable.
But traditionally, it will come unexpectedly late to
stupid you.

It's not about race. It's about freedom and liberty. You don't
have that in a police-state.
--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: --> . <-- Oh look.. A point! (2:221/1.58)

yes, where are we, up to your superior race... Wait, we've heard that somewhere before... Hitler came to a bad end. All the higher races will
be there, it's so predictable. But traditionally, it will come
unexpectedly late to stupid you.

You have just provided proof for Godwin's law, as well as Dossche's Laws #4 and #17 on on-line discussions and communication:

Godwin:
"If any online discussion continues long enough, someone will almost
certainly make a reference to Hitler"

#4
"At the end of a stretched online debate, there always is an insult".

#17
"Lying is an ultimate form of free speech"

Enjoy the day,

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

���ண� �६�窠, Ward Dossche.
�� ��ᠫ� 06.10.22 14:56:

yes, where are we, up to your superior race... Wait, we've heard that somewhere before...
Hitler came to a bad end. All the higher races will be there, it's so predictable. But
traditionally, it will come unexpectedly late to stupid you.

You have just provided proof for Godwin's law, as well as Dossche's Laws #4 and #17 on on-line
discussions and communication:

Read yourself again. It is recommended to repeat until complete understanding. If it doesn't come now, it will come later, don't worry. The Law of Belated Understanding, traditionally for the West.

--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: 27 ��� � ����... ��-�-�� �� �������... (2:50/700)

���ண� �६�窠, August Abolins.
�� ��ᠫ� 06.10.22 8:47:

yes, where are we, up to your superior race... Wait, we've heard that somewhere before...
Hitler came to a bad end. All the higher races will be there, it's so predictable. But
traditionally, it will come unexpectedly late to stupid you.

It's not about race. It's about freedom and liberty. You don't have that in a police-state.

I saw how the russian children of Donbass die for the freedom and liberty of the ukranian Nazis. Many years.
We have a fundamental difference of views on freedom, liberty and police-state. You talk about it, we do it and live it.

--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: 27 ��� � ����... ��-�-�� �� �������... (2:50/700)

Oleg,

I saw how the russian children of Donbass die for the freedom and liberty of the ukranian Nazis. Many years.
We have a fundamental difference of views on freedom, liberty and police-state. You talk about it, we do it and live it.

So, when are you leaving for the war? I mean, the special military operation?

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Dan wrote (2022-10-03):

Lee Lofaso wrote to Björn Felten <=-

<SNIP>

You're talking to yourself again, Beeeorn.

"Please stop trying to fan the flames, by making baseless accusations
with no purpose other than trying to make yourself relevant."

---
* Origin: War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. (2:280/464.47)

Hello Dan,

How many years in prison will you get for calling Mad Vlad's "special
military operation" a war? Or maybe the troll factory workers are
exempt from normal Russian law?

I'll let Noam Chomsky answer your silly questions -

<SNIP>

You're talking to yourself again, Beeeorn.

Professor Chomsky speaks far more eloquently than you.
Even at 93 years of age.
Hell, Jimmy Carter does too. At 98 years of age.
Happy (belated) Birthday, Jimmy!

For Life,
Lee

--
Lock him up!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Alexander,

Think it out.
This stupid war can end only in one of two ways -
1. Either Russia is totally destroyed, or Ukraine is totally
destroyed. Russia will not be totally destroyed. So Russia wins
in the long run. 2. Negotiations between the two sides and an
agreement is reached. Neither side is willing to negotiate in
good faith, so the destruction continues.

We can model the situation with Russia and Ukraine in this way:

This should be interesting ...

Suppose modern Israel has finally been divided into Palestine and
Israel, and some areas with Jewish population stayed in the Palestine
part after the agreement that all the people will be equally and fairly treated.

The Turks ruled the land of Palestine until the end of WWI, when
the British decided to take over due to the spoils of war. And then,
Jewish people from Germany (and elsewhere) came sneaking in through
illegal immigration until the end of WWII. And then, the United
Nations got into the act, creating two Palestinian states - one for
Palestinian Arabs, and one for Palestinian Jews. Both the Arabs and
the Jews rejected the deal, and told the United Nations to take a
hike.

But after a time a coup happens in Palestine, and Hamas captures the power and declared that all people in the country are now Arabs, they must speak Arabs, cut tied with Israel etc.

No, no, no. You've got it all wrong. Both sides rejected the deal
offered to them by the United Nations. The Jews were not happy with
getting only a small portion of land that did not belong to them,
and the Arabs were not happy with their own land being given to
Jews by infidels.

Naturally, the Jewish community refused to follow such orders.

They certainly understood the penalty for disobeying Rule #1 -
You shall not have other gods before me.

Hamas starts a military offensive to Jewish areas.

Again, you have it all wrong. After both sides rejected the deal
offered to them by the United Nations, the Palestinian Jews attacked
the Palestian Arabs - on Arab land. And they did not do it once, but
four times since the United Nations tried to give them the land.

Well, it is all happening under the Israel nose. ;-)

Yasser Arafat is still worshipped by Palestinian Arabs. Palestinian
women love him, even years after his untimely death. So much so, they
continue to make babies for him. "One more fighter for Arafat!" as
their battle cry whenever a child is born ...

What will happen next to newly independent Palestine? Will we
hear hysteria from Arab neighbours, sanctions and so on?

Nah. Instead of chanting "Next year in Jerusalem" Palestinian Arabs
will be chanting "This year in Jerusalem" ...

For Life,
Lee

--
Get Her Wet Here

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Ward,

We can model the situation with Russia and Ukraine in this way:

You continue to bypass the issue ... the war started by Russia invading a bona-fide peaceful country ...

The only thing to do for the war to stop is for Russia to stop fighting and
withdraw to positions of Feb.23rd ... I assure you, the Ukrainian army will
immediately stop fighting the agressor.

Crimea is part of Ukraine, and is recognized by the international
community as such. Despite Russia's claim to the contrary.

For Life,
Lee

--
I won't fan the flames of hate, ~Joe Biden

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

���ண� �६�窠, Ward Dossche.
�� ��ᠫ� 06.10.22 21:01:

I saw how the russian children of Donbass die for the freedom and liberty of the ukranian
Nazis. Many years. We have a fundamental difference of views on freedom, liberty and
police-state. You talk about it, we do it and live it.

So, when are you leaving for the war? I mean, the special military operation?

I think you'll find out soon from the news.

--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: 27 ��� � ����... ��-�-�� �� �������... (2:50/700)

���ண� �६�窠, Lee Lofaso.
�� ��ᠫ� 06.10.22 22:25:

We can model the situation with Russia and Ukraine in this way:

You continue to bypass the issue ... the war started by Russia invading a bona-fide peaceful
country ... The only thing to do for the war to stop is for Russia to stop fighting and
withdraw to positions of Feb.23rd ... I assure you, the Ukrainian army will immediately stop
fighting the agressor.

Crimea is part of Ukraine, and is recognized by the international community as such. Despite
Russia's claim to the contrary.

Golan is part of Syria, West Jerusalem and West bank of Jordan is part of Palestine and is recognized by the international community. Despite Israel's claim to the contrary.
South California, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Wayoming, Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas is part of Mexico. Despite USA's claim to the contrary.
Who is stronger has more rights?

--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: 27 ��� � ����... ��-�-�� �� �������... (2:50/700)

South California, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Wayoming, Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas is part of Mexico. Despite USA's claim to the contrary.

Please read-up on parts of the Louisiana purchase

Who is stronger has more rights?

The final liberation of Ukraine from the invader will show that.

So, when are you reporting to go to the front and get slaughtered?

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Hi, Lee Lofaso!
I read your message from 06.10.2022 23:25

ak>> Hamas starts a military offensive to Jewish areas.
LL> Again, you have it all wrong. After both sides rejected the deal
LL> offered to them by the United Nations, the Palestinian Jews
LL> attacked ??the Palestian Arabs - on Arab land. And they did not
LL> do it once, but four times since the United Nations tried to
LL> give them the land.

I described the situation theoretically, to compare Russians in Ukraine
and Jews in Palestine if they appeared in a similar situation. Both
living next to their protectors.

Bye, Lee!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Lee Lofaso!
I read your message from 06.10.2022 23:25

ak>>> We can model the situation with Russia and Ukraine in
ak>>> this way:
WD>> You continue to bypass the issue ... the war started by
WD>> Russia invading a bona-fide peaceful country ...
WD>> The only thing to do for the war to stop is for Russia to
WD>> stop fighting and withdraw to positions of Feb.23rd ... I
WD>> assure you, the Ukrainian army will immediately stop
WD>> fighting the agressor.
LL> Crimea is part of Ukraine, and is recognized by the
LL> international community as such. Despite Russia's claim to the
LL> contrary.

The US recognized Jerusalem as a capital of Israel and opened its
embassy there. It means that if a thing is prohibited but very desirable
then it is allowed. ;) In addition Russians in Crimea don't hurl rocks
to their occupants. ;-)

Bye, Lee!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

You have just provided proof for Godwin's law, as well as Dossche's Laws #4 and #17 on on-line discussions and communication:

I think that a posting, that I made in one of my echoes circa 30 years ago, is still applicable.

From the Troll's Handbook:

Five ways to win every Fidonet argument.

1. Continually move the goalposts.
2. Make stuff up.
3. Never admit fault.
4. Ad hominem.
5. Straw man.


--
United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

..

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* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

���ண� �६�窠, Ward Dossche.
�� ��ᠫ� 07.10.22 8:37:

South California, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Wayoming, Kansas, Oklahoma and
Texas is part of Mexico. Despite USA's claim to the contrary.

Please read-up on parts of the Louisiana purchase

This is not a question for me, for Mexico. She is even satisfied with the contribution for 170 years ;)

Who is stronger has more rights?

The final liberation of Ukraine from the invader will show that.

Let's wait and see who will free whom from whom.

So, when are you reporting to go to the front and get slaughtered?

You won't wait ;) And to the Donbass - occasionally, if necessary. You won't wait. Come, don't be afraid!

--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
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���ண� �६�窠, alexander koryagin.
�� ��ᠫ� 07.10.22 10:16:

Again, you have it all wrong. After both sides rejected the deal offered to them by the
United Nations, the Palestinian Jews attacked ??the Palestian Arabs - on Arab land. And they
did not do it once, but four times since the United Nations tried to give them the land.

I described the situation theoretically, to compare Russians in Ukraine and Jews in Palestine
if they appeared in a similar situation. Both living next to their protectors.

Somewhat different circumstances. Russians do not treat Ukrainians as an inferior race of slaves, which cannot be said about Jews to Palestinians. There, the Palestinians are actually equated to the Negroes of the period of American slavery, with rules similar to the occupation regime of the Nazis. I've lived there for a long time, know from the inside.

--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
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���ண� �६�窠, Bj�rn Felten.
�� ��ᠫ� 07.10.22 9:41:

I think that a posting, that I made in one of my echoes circa 30 years ago, is still
applicable.
From the Troll's Handbook: Five ways to win every Fidonet argument.

The dispute between representatives of the occupation and liberation movements is doomed. In this context, the West is the occupier.
By the way, Western mercenaries no longer hesitate to die in the uniform of their countries, at least they used to dress up in Ukrainian. Looks so-so.

--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
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Somewhat different circumstances. Russians do not treat Ukrainians as an inferior race of slaves,

Worse than that, they even deny that they exist.

which cannot be said about Jews to
Palestinians. There, the Palestinians are actually equated to the
Negroes of the period of American slavery,

I agree, as does most human rights organisations, Israel is an apartheid country. There's no doubt about it. But Israel buys much more, very expensive, weapons systems from NATO countries than Palestine does, so those countries will never say it out loud.

BTW, Sweden has always supported the Palestinians' right...


--
United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Bj�rn,

On Friday October 07 2022 10:45, you wrote to Oleg Nazaroff:

I agree, as does most human rights organisations, Israel is an apartheid country. There's no doubt about it.

I stopped buying products labelled "from Israel" some 30 years ago.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

���ண� �६�窠, Bj�rn Felten.
�� ��ᠫ� 07.10.22 10:45:

Somewhat different circumstances. Russians do not treat Ukrainians as an inferior race of
slaves,

Worse than that, they even deny that they exist.

Denial of the state, not the nation. Ukrainians were one of the most privileged "castes" in the USSR, more money was allocated for the development of the territory than others, including Moscow, it was easier for Ukrainians to get into the power structures, these are historical facts.

which cannot be said about Jews to Palestinians. There, the Palestinians are actually equated
to the Negroes of the period of American slavery,

I agree, as does most human rights organisations, Israel is an apartheid country. There's
no doubt about it. But Israel buys much more, very expensive, weapons systems from NATO
countries than Palestine does, so those countries will never say it out loud.

Ah, that's where Putin stumbled! All you had to do was buy a lot of expensive weapons from Nato, is it that simple? ;)

BTW, Sweden has always supported the Palestinians' right...

Yes, the USSR is inconsistent. At first, they did everything possible for the emergence of the state of Israel, and when the Jews got into the taste, USSR began to help the Palestinians fight the Jews ...;)

--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
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Hello Oleg,

Crimea is part of Ukraine, and is recognized by the international
community as such. Despite Russia's claim to the contrary.

Golan is part of Syria, West Jerusalem and West bank of Jordan is part of Palestine and is recognized by the international community.

In accordance with international law, the status of erusalem is that
of a city which is illegally occupied by Israel in violaion of the
inalienable right of soverignty of the people of Palestine.

Under the 1947 UN Partition Plan to divide historical Palestine
between Jewish and Arab States, Jerusalem was granted special status
and was meant to be placced under international sovereignty and
control. This special status was based on Jerusalem's religious
importance to Muslims, Jews, and Christians who live there.

Despite Israel's claim to the contrary.

UN Resolution 478 [passed] called Israel's action regarding Jerusalem
"null and void" as an occupying power does not have sovereignty on the territory it occupies.

South California, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Wayoming, Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas is part of Mexico.

Used to be. Once upon a time.

Despite USA's claim to the contrary.

The USA annexed those areas by treaty with Mexico.
And therefore is recognized by Mexico and the international
community as valid.

Who is stronger has more rights?

UN Resolution 242 [passed] stressed the "inadmissability of the
acquistion of territory by war." In other words, annexation of occupied territory is also a crime. A crime for which officials of the annexing
state are responsible. Put another way -
"Annexation by the use of force of the territory of another state
or part thereof" qualifies as the crime of agression, under the Article
8his of the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court.

Article 51 of the UN Charter confirms Israel's annexation of the Golan
is a violation of international law.

Israel is not alone in this.

For Life,
Lee

--
Make 7-Up Yours

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Alexander,

Hamas starts a military offensive to Jewish areas.

Again, you have it all wrong. After both sides rejected the deal
offered to them by the United Nations, the Palestinian Jews
attacked ??the Palestian Arabs - on Arab land. And they did not
do it once, but four times since the United Nations tried to
give them the land.

I described the situation theoretically, to compare Russians in Ukraine and Jews in Palestine if they appeared in a similar situation. Both
living next to their protectors.

The Arabs and the Jews have been fighting each other since
time immemorial. Ukrainians and Russians not so much.

In the USA, even the Hatfields and McCoys have learned to live
together in peace. Although granted it did take them a long time.

So there is hope.

Jimmy Carter brought Menachim Begin and Anwas Sadat together.
They even made peace with each other, both winning the Nobel Peace
Prize.

Bill Clinton brought Yatzik Rabin and Yasser Arafat together. They
even made peace with each other, both winning the Nobel Peace Prize.

Now it is time for Joe Biden to bring Zelensky and Putin together.
They will be sure to make peace with each other, both winning the
Nobel Peace Prize.

"Blessed are the Peacemakers, for they will be called children
of God." ~Matthew 5:9

For Life,
Lee

--
We! Reject! The president-nonelect!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Alexander,

We can model the situation with Russia and Ukraine in
this way:

You continue to bypass the issue ... the war started by
Russia invading a bona-fide peaceful country ...
The only thing to do for the war to stop is for Russia to
stop fighting and withdraw to positions of Feb.23rd ... I
assure you, the Ukrainian army will immediately stop
fighting the agressor.

Crimea is part of Ukraine, and is recognized by the
international community as such. Despite Russia's claim to the
contrary.

The US recognized Jerusalem as a capital of Israel and opened its
embassy there.

So what? No other country in the world (except Russia) recognizes
Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Do you know why?

Under the 1947 UN Partition Plan to divide historical Palestine
between Jewish and Arab states, Jerusalem was granted special status
and was meant to be be placed under international sovereignty and
control.

This special status was based on Jerusalem's religious importance
to the Muslims, Jews, and Christians who live there.

It means that if a thing is prohibited but very desirable then it is allowed. ;) In addition Russians in Crimea don't hurl rocks to their occupants. ;-)

UN Resolution 478 [passed] called Israel's action regarding Jerusalem
(Knesset claim of Jerusalem being capital of Israel) as being "null and
void."

The same applies to all other countries making such an audacious
claim. So what does it matter? Trump and Putin can claim whatever they
want. But that does not make it so.

Israeli army has tanks. Palestinian kids have rocks.
Guess which side always wins such contests?

Of course, things could change if NATO starts arming those
Palestinian kids will heavier stuff ...

For Life,
Lee

--
Nobody Beats Our Meat

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Oleg,

South California, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Colorado,

Wayoming, Kansas, Oklahoma and

Texas is part of Mexico. Despite USA's claim to the contrary.

Please read-up on parts of the Louisiana purchase

This is not a question for me, for Mexico. She is even satisfied with the contribution for 170 years ;)

Mexico is only a small size of what it once was.
But it is still Mexico.

Who is stronger has more rights?

The final liberation of Ukraine from the invader will show that.

Let's wait and see who will free whom from whom.

To the victor go the spoils? UN Resolution 242 [passed] says
otherwise, that annexation of occupied territory is a crime, for
which officials of the annexing state are responsible.

So, when are you reporting to go to the front and get slaughtered?

You won't wait ;) And to the Donbass - occasionally, if necessary. You won't
wait. Come, don't be afraid!

Article 51 of the UN Charter confirms Israel's annexation of Golan
is violation of international law.

US policy also remains the same, that the Golan remains part of Syria. Regardless of what former president Donald Trump claims.

For Life,
Lee

--
Make 7-Up Yours

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Oleg,

[..]

I described the situation theoretically, to compare Russians in
Ukraine and Jews in Palestine if they appeared in a similar
situation. Both living next to their protectors.

Somewhat different circumstances.

Very different circumstances. Palestine was partitioned by the
United Nations into two states - one for Palestinian Jews and one
for Palestinian Arabs. Both sides rejected the deal, for different
reasons. Palestinian Arabs did not accept their land being taken
from them by the United Nations (or by anybody else), and
Palestinian Jews wanted all the land of Palestine for themselves.

Russians do not treat Ukrainians as an inferior race of slaves, which cannot
be said about Jews to Palestinians. There, the Palestinians are actually equated to the Negroes of the period of American slavery, with rules similar to the occupation regime of the Nazis. I've lived there for a long time, know from the inside.

Israel is more of a theocracy than a democracy. Think fundamentalist
Jewish state rather than fundamentalist Islamic state.

For Life,
Lee

--
As Good As It Looks

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Oleg,

I think that a posting, that I made in one of my echoes circa 30 BF>years

ago, is still applicable. From the Troll's Handbook: Five BF>ways to win every Fidonet argument.

The dispute between representatives of the occupation and liberation movements is doomed. In this context, the West is the occupier.

Is it?

UN Resolution 242, after the June 1967 [Yom Kippur] war, stressed
the "inadmissability of the acquisition of territory by war." The
resolution was adopted with reference to the territories Israel
occupied in 1967, including the Golan.

So what gives any other country the right to do the same as Israel?

By the way, Western mercenaries no longer hesitate to die in the uniform of
their countries, at least they used to dress up in Ukrainian. Looks so-so.

Despite Israel's de facto annexation of East Jerusalem, Palestinians
who live there were not granted Israeli citizenship. Since 1967, Israel
has revoked the status of 14,000+ Palestinians, according to Israeli
rights group T'salem.

What does that say about an occupying power that treats the people
who live in the area it invaded? Where do those people go, having no
home to go to or place to stay?

For Life,
Lee

--
They say `Yes, Trump'! / We say `No, Trump!'

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

���ண� �६�窠, Lee Lofaso.
�� ��ᠫ� 08.10.22 23:28:

I described the situation theoretically, to compare Russians in Ukraine and Jews in
Palestine if they appeared in a similar situation. Both living next to their protectors.

Somewhat different circumstances.

Very different circumstances. Palestine was partitioned by the United Nations into two states
- one for Palestinian Jews and one for Palestinian Arabs. Both sides rejected the deal, for
different reasons. Palestinian Arabs did not accept their land being taken from them by the
United Nations (or by anybody else), and Palestinian Jews wanted all the land of Palestine for
themselves.

UN here once again discredits itself as such. Did they take an interest in the opinion of the Palestinians ahead of time, did they hold a referendum - how, Palestinian citizens, we counted here, you have a lot of extra land, we decided to make a settlement in your communal apartment, the very ones who crucified your god, you don't mind, let's vote, we are for!

Russians do not treat Ukrainians as an inferior race of slaves, which cannot be said about
Jews to Palestinians. There, the Palestinians are actually equated to the Negroes of the
period of American slavery, with rules similar to the occupation regime of the Nazis. I've
lived there for a long time, know from the inside.

Israel is more of a theocracy than a democracy. Think fundamentalist Jewish state rather than
fundamentalist Islamic state.

Did someone tell you or did they invent it themselves that the majority of Russians and Ukrainians are Democrats?? This is an implanted "belief" of the West, by the way.

--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
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���ண� �६�窠, Lee Lofaso.
�� ��ᠫ� 08.10.22 23:28:

Crimea is part of Ukraine, and is recognized by the international community as such. Despite
Russia's claim to the contrary.

Golan is part of Syria, West Jerusalem and West bank of Jordan is part of Palestine and is
recognized by the international community.

In accordance with international law, the status of erusalem is that of a city which is
illegally occupied by Israel in violaion of the inalienable right of soverignty of the people
of Palestine. Under the 1947 UN Partition Plan to divide historical Palestine between Jewish
and Arab States, Jerusalem was granted special status and was meant to be placced under
international sovereignty and control. This special status was based on Jerusalem's religious
importance to Muslims, Jews, and Christians who live there.

So what? What changes from this how many decades have there been? They spit on the GT and the Palestinians. Who is stronger than that and sneakers. Who is richer - just bought a piece of land in Jerusalem. Those who lived there before 1947 were forcibly deprived of housing and rights.

South California, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Wayoming, Kansas, Oklahoma and
Texas is part of Mexico.

Used to be. Once upon a time.

Yeah. I'll just pull up my pants and trust God without looking back.

Despite USA's claim to the contrary.

The USA annexed those areas by treaty with Mexico. And therefore is recognized by Mexico and
the international community as valid.

A contract signed under pressure is null and void.

Who is stronger has more rights?

UN Resolution 242 [passed] stressed the "inadmissability of the acquistion of territory by
war." In other words, annexation of occupied territory is also a crime. A crime for which
officials of the annexing state are responsible. Put another way - "Annexation by the use of
force of the territory of another state or part thereof" qualifies as the crime of agression,
under the Article 8his of the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court.

Everyone spat on UN.

Article 51 of the UN Charter confirms Israel's annexation of the Golan is a violation of
international law. Israel is not alone in this.

Because the hegemon is a good example. If it is possible for the hegemon, it is possible for others. And what's wrong with Russia? At the same time, Russia takes into account the opinion of the people inhabiting the "annexed" territories. And twice in history - the first referendum was in 1990, but it was ignored - a bunch of traitors illegally, for the sake of their own interests and for the money of the hegemon, the USA - destroyed the USSR.

--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
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���ண� �६�窠, Lee Lofaso.
�� ��ᠫ� 08.10.22 23:28:

It means that if a thing is prohibited but very desirable then it is allowed. ;) In addition
Russians in Crimea don't hurl rocks to their occupants. ;-)

The same applies to all other countries making such an audacious claim. So what does it
matter? Trump and Putin can claim whatever they want. But that does not make it so. Israeli
army has tanks. Palestinian kids have rocks. Guess which side always wins such contests? Of
course, things could change if NATO starts arming those Palestinian kids will heavier stuff
...

You understand that NATO and no one else will do this almost never. So why the fuck would NATO want to do this with Ukraine? Yes, because it is convenient to fight with someone else's hands and pour someone else's blood. And Putin will definitely fuck around Britain and the USA, if anything. It's about time.

--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
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���ண� �६�窠, Lee Lofaso.
�� ��ᠫ� 08.10.22 23:28:

I described the situation theoretically, to compare Russians in Ukraine and Jews in Palestine
if they appeared in a similar situation. Both living next to their protectors.

The Arabs and the Jews have been fighting each other since time immemorial. Ukrainians and
Russians not so much. Jimmy Carter brought Menachim Begin and Anwas Sadat together. They even
made peace with each other, both winning the Nobel Peace Prize.

A world divided by a 10-meter wall is so-so peaceful. All these Nobel prizes are disconnected from reality.

--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
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You understand that NATO and no one else will do this almost never. So why the fuck would NATO want to do this with Ukraine?

NATO doesn't want any of this.

Yes, because it is convenient to fight with someone else's hands and pour someone else's blood.

NATO isn't fighting. Ukraine is defending itself from an invading nation.

And Putin will definitely fuck around Britain and the USA, if anything. It's about time.

Time for what?

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

���ண� �६�窠, Lee Lofaso.
�� ��ᠫ� 08.10.22 23:28:

Crimea is part of Ukraine, and is recognized by the international community as such. Despite
Russia's claim to the contrary.

Golan is part of Syria, West Jerusalem and West bank of Jordan is part of Palestine and is
recognized by the international community.

In accordance with international law, the status of erusalem is that of a city which is
illegally occupied by Israel in violaion of the inalienable right of soverignty of the people
of Palestine.

Okay, where are the 8 packages of sanctions from the United States and the European Union against Israel???

--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
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���ண� �६�窠, Alan Ianson.
�� ��ᠫ� 09.10.22 0:40:

You understand that NATO and no one else will do this almost never. So why the fuck would
NATO want to do this with Ukraine?

NATO doesn't want any of this.

Reluctantly supplies weapons, from under the stick, huh? He doesn't want to, but he has to. Someone.

Yes, because it is convenient to fight with someone else's hands and pour someone else's
blood.

NATO isn't fighting. Ukraine is defending itself from an invading nation.

And we took photos and videos of NATO instructors and mercenaries on Mosfilm, yeah. And then they performed plastic surgery on the unfortunate, killed them and buried them on the battlefield, and brainwashed others and captured them. Only so far only Hollywood is working clumsily.

And Putin will definitely fuck around Britain and the USA, if anything. It's about time.

Time for what?

Here you will find out at the same time ;)

--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: 27 ��� � ����... ��-�-�� �� �������... (2:50/700)

NATO doesn't want any of this.

Reluctantly supplies weapons, from under the stick, huh? He doesn't want to, but he has to. Someone.

Some countries willingly supply Ukraine with weapons. Are you surprised?

NATO isn't fighting. Ukraine is defending itself from an invading nation.

And we took photos and videos of NATO instructors and mercenaries on Mosfilm, yeah. And then they performed plastic surgery on the unfortunate, killed them and buried them on the battlefield, and brainwashed others and captured them. Only so far only Hollywood is working clumsily.

That's a great script.

Time for what?

Here you will find out at the same time ;)

Uh huh.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

NATO isn't fighting. Ukraine is defending itself from an invading nation.

And we took photos and videos of NATO instructors and mercenaries

Yeah, Russia is fighting NATO, that's Putin's narrative. He obviously have no idea about how powerful NATO is. This is what will happen, in chronological order, if Mad Vlad manages to declare war on any NATO country.

1. Instant destruction of all Russian warships in the Black Sea and then world-wide.

2. Instant destruction of all Russian military installations in Kaliningrad.

3. Instant destruction of all Russian military installations in occupied Moldova.

4. Instant destruction of all Russian military installations in occupied Georgia.

5. Instant destruction of all Russian ground stations for satellite and other telecommunications.

6. Total air and sea blockade of all Russian ports.

7. Permanent forfeiture of all assets in Europe and North America (those that for now has only been frozen).

8. Plus of course, NATO troops and equipment (air, land and sea) in Ukraine -- how long do you think Mad Vlad's army of unwilling, untrained, unequipped conscripts with corrupt leaders will hold out? I guess they'll start running home within hours. Those that survive, that is.


--
United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

���ண� �६�窠, Bj�rn Felten.
�� ��ᠫ� 09.10.22 14:17:

NATO isn't fighting. Ukraine is defending itself from an invading nation.

And we took photos and videos of NATO instructors and mercenaries

Yeah, Russia is fighting NATO, that's Putin's narrative. He obviously have no idea about
how powerful NATO is. This is what will happen, in chronological order, if Mad Vlad manages to
declare war on any NATO country.
1. Instant destruction of all Russian warships in the Black Sea and then world-wide. 8. Plus
of course, NATO troops and equipment (air, land and sea) in Ukraine -- how long do you think
Mad Vlad's army of unwilling, untrained, unequipped conscripts with corrupt leaders will hold
out? I guess they'll start running home within hours. Those that survive, that is.

Yes yes. The whole world saw how brave Americans escaped from the Taliban in rags and with rusty machine guns ;)

About Syria, I'm too mournfully silent ;)

Look for Poseidons more carefully ;)

The fact that the Russians are a jerk, we ourselves are aware of it ;) We like to show "cartoons" that unexpectedly turn out to be real weapons, to which NATO is like walking to the moon...

And don't dream!

--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: 27 ��� � ����... ��-�-�� �� �������... (2:50/700)

���ண� �६�窠, Alan Ianson.
�� ��ᠫ� 09.10.22 4:35:

NATO doesn't want any of this.

Reluctantly supplies weapons, from under the stick, huh? He doesn't want to, but he has to.
Someone.

Some countries willingly supply Ukraine with weapons. Are you surprised?

Send more - we will dispose of this as well.


--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: 27 ��� � ����... ��-�-�� �� �������... (2:50/700)

Hi, Lee Lofaso!
I read your message from 09.10.2022 00:28

ak>>>> Hamas starts a military offensive to Jewish areas.
LL>>> Again, you have it all wrong. After both sides rejected the deal
LL>>> offered to them by the United Nations, the Palestinian Jews
LL>>> attacked the Palestian Arabs - on Arab land. And they did not do
LL>>> it once, but four times since the United Nations tried to give
LL>>> them the land.

ak>> I described the situation theoretically, to compare Russians in
ak>> Ukraine and Jews in Palestine if they appeared in a similar
ak>> situation. Both living next to their protectors.

LL> The Arabs and the Jews have been fighting each other since time
LL> immemorial. Ukrainians and Russians not so much.

LL> In the USA, even the Hatfields and McCoys have learned to live
LL> together in peace. Although granted it did take them a long time.

LL> So there is hope.

LL> Jimmy Carter brought Menachim Begin and Anwas Sadat together. They
LL> even made peace with each other, both winning the Nobel Peace
LL> Prize.

LL> Bill Clinton brought Yatzik Rabin and Yasser Arafat together. They
LL> even made peace with each other, both winning the Nobel Peace
LL> Prize.

LL> Now it is time for Joe Biden to bring Zelensky and Putin together.
LL> They will be sure to make peace with each other, both winning the
LL> Nobel Peace Prize.

LL> "Blessed are the Peacemakers, for they will be called children of
LL> God." ~Matthew 5:9

For this the West should take a plunger piston to clean its eyes which
don't see in the Ukraine two fighting nations and a nationalistic
conflict. The idea that the war is caused only by the Putin's desire to capture Ukraine is wrong.

Bye, Lee!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Lee Lofaso!
I read your message from 09.10.2022 00:28

ak>> It means that if a thing is prohibited but very desirable
ak>> then it is allowed. ;) In addition Russians in Crimea don't
ak>> hurl rocks to their occupants. ;-)
LL> UN Resolution 478 [passed] called Israel's action regarding
LL> Jerusalem (Knesset claim of Jerusalem being capital of Israel)
LL> as being "null and void."

LL> The same applies to all other countries making such an audacious
LL> claim. So what does it matter? Trump and Putin can claim
LL> whatever they want. But that does not make it so.
LL> Israeli army has tanks. Palestinian kids have rocks.
LL> Guess which side always wins such contests?
LL> Of course, things could change if NATO starts arming those
LL> Palestinian kids will heavier stuff ...

A famous phrase "He is a son of bitch, but he is our son bitch" is still
very actual. ;-)

Bye, Lee!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Bj?rn Felten!
I read your message from 09.10.2022 15:17

AI>>> NATO isn't fighting. Ukraine is defending itself from an invading
AI>>> nation.
ON>> And we took photos and videos of NATO instructors and mercenaries
BF> Yeah, Russia is fighting NATO, that's Putin's narrative. He
BF> obviously have no idea about how powerful NATO is. This is what
BF> will happen, in chronological order, if Mad Vlad manages to declare
BF> war on any NATO country.

BF> 1. Instant destruction of all Russian warships in the Black Sea and
BF> then world-wide.
BF> 2. Instant destruction of all Russian military installations in
BF> Kaliningrad.
BF> 3. Instant destruction of all Russian military installations in
BF> occupied Moldova.
BF> 4. Instant destruction of all Russian military installations in
BF> occupied Georgia.

Stop reading about Harry Potter too much! ;=))

BF> 5. Instant destruction of all Russian ground stations for satellite
BF> and other telecommunications.

I wish we will not compete in that area. After that we won't be able to
fly safely into space for hundreds of years. ;-) And for optical
cables... How do you think -- what does a person need to destroy an
vital Internet cable from Europe to America, for instance? A small
motoboat, GPS navigator and a modest depth bomb, all used in the foggy
night. Should we compete in it too? ;-) The same is true about western
gas pipelines.

BF> 6. Total air and sea blockade of all Russian ports.

BF> 7. Permanent forfeiture of all assets in Europe and North America
BF> (those that for now has only been frozen).

Making a North Korea from Russia is a very poor idea for the West.
Russia's demands are much modest than the price of that poor idea.

BF> 8. Plus of course, NATO troops and equipment (air, land and sea) in
BF> Ukraine -- how long do you think Mad Vlad's army of unwilling,
BF> untrained, unequipped conscripts with corrupt leaders will hold
BF> out? I guess they'll start running home within hours. Those that
BF> survive, that is.

Nuclear strikes can started incidentally when both sides keep fingers on launch buttons. So, it is much better to recall the Caribbean crisis and
start to respect each other interests, make concessions to each other.

Bye, Bj?rn!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Yes yes. The whole world saw how brave Americans escaped from the
Taliban in rags and with rusty machine guns ;)

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

1) NATO != America

2) I think you are thinking of how the USSR performed in the 1980s?


--
United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

���ண� �६�窠, Bj�rn Felten.
�� ��ᠫ� 10.10.22 10:41:

Yes yes. The whole world saw how brave Americans escaped from the Taliban in rags and with
rusty machine guns ;)

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.
1) NATO != America

Nato without America is nothing. You have nothing but an excessive sense of self-worth anymore, Kazan orphans. Even with memory and then problems. Nato, together with the European Union, may disintegrate even faster than Ukraine ;)

2) I think you are thinking of how the USSR performed in the 1980s?

We were withdrawing troops from Afghanistan without shameful flight, and we continue to cooperate, unlike the USA.

--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: 27 ��� � ����... ��-�-�� �� �������... (2:50/700)

Oleg,

Yes yes. The whole world saw how brave Americans escaped from the Taliban in rags and with rusty machine guns ;)

They ran from then Saigon in the 1980-ies. They didn't run in Afghanistan. Most of the American operations had already been contracted out to private companies with limited military presence. Friend of mine was there, the salaries were so high he bought a $320.000 house cash ... with the money in his pocket ... earned in 3 years. This was like 6yrs ago already.

Afghanistan troops were incompetent of provading security, that's why the US left, shouldn't have been there in the first place.

But do not confuse NATO with America. There are several more nuclear capable countries member of NATO. Britain in 1982 went to war 13.000km away and beat the shit out of Argentina...without nukes. Just conventional. That is what Bjorn was saying, conventionally the Russian army is not a threat anymore. Just the nukes, and in a nuclear war there are no winners. I think we agree on that ...

About Syria, I'm too mournfully silent ;)

There's just that much to write about in 24hrs ... what about the 25.000 children who died in Africa yesterday for lack of food because of the war in Ukraine? And how about the 25.000 today? And the 25.000 tomorrow? ... They are just in another statistic to hide the real truth. Figures from the UN.

The fact that the Russians are a jerk, we ourselves are aware of it ;)

Ah .... OK then .... Being a jerk is one thing, being an idiot another. I hope Russians are not idiots.

I live pretty close to NATO HQ here, if one day my node goes into a high-pitched shriek, people will know what happened.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

���ண� �६�窠, Ward Dossche.
�� ��ᠫ� 10.10.22 11:44:

Yes yes. The whole world saw how brave Americans escaped from the Taliban in rags and with
rusty machine guns ;)

They ran from then Saigon in the 1980-ies. They didn't run in Afghanistan. Most of the
American operations had already been contracted out to private companies with limited military
presence. Friend of mine was there, the salaries were so high he bought a $320.000 house cash
... with the money in his pocket ... earned in 3 years. This was like 6yrs ago already.

They run away wherever they get slapped. Only the heels sparkled. It was funny to watch how the ragged Taliban drove this smug herd.

Afghanistan troops were incompetent of provading security, that's why the US left, shouldn't
have been there in the first place.

Excuses are irrelevant. They don't wave their fists after a fight.

But do not confuse NATO with America. There are several more nuclear capable countries member
of NATO. Britain in 1982 went to war 13.000km away and beat the shit out of
Argentina...without nukes. Just conventional. That is what Bjorn was saying, conventionally
the Russian army is not a threat anymore. Just the nukes, and in a nuclear war there are no
winners. I think we agree on that ...

I wouldn't say that, judging by this morning. Not that I woke up from rocket launches, but while I was doing exercises on the street, I got tired of counting the launches first, and then just hours until the shelling stopped. And yes, we haven't even started yet. So, while reluctantly warming up.
Do you really want nuke? So undermine yourself, don't suffer. Away only somewhere.
Ukrainians can also arrange a gift for you. Spent and American nuclear fuel is stored directly under the open sky at the Zaporozhye NPP. If something arrives there from the Nazis, it will cover northern Europe first of all.

About Syria, I'm too mournfully silent ;)

There's just that much to write about in 24hrs ... what about the 25.000 children who died in
Africa yesterday for lack of food because of the war in Ukraine? And how about the 25.000
today? And the 25.000 tomorrow? ... They are just in another statistic to hide the real truth.
Figures from the UN.

Well, look for yourself where the grain has gone from Ukraine. How many were sent to Africa and how many reached. The rest somehow disappeared on the way past Europe... And when you eat bread in winter, think about why and how many children died. Russia, by the way, gives its bread to Africa. Your country only takes it.

The fact that the Russians are a jerk, we ourselves are aware of it ;)

Ah .... OK then .... Being a jerk is one thing, being an idiot another. I hope Russians are
not idiots.

Well, we are cotton wool. Or how is your propaganda broadcasting about us? We wear quilted jackets, guard bears instead of dogs, and solid Ivan-fools everywhere. Some people don't understand how they even got into Forbes, they built yachts one more than the other - well, complete idiots. Because the alternatively gifted West took all this hard-earned wealth and grabbed it. Without declaring war.
The fact that Ivan is a fool and can be offended is not known to the West. Poked the bears with a stick with a nail - no, does not answer, probably died. And when the bear swings, has breakfast with vodka, pulls out a couple of conventional hurricanes and goes waving, screaming "what are we for?" it will be too late.

I live pretty close to NATO HQ here, if one day my node goes into a high-pitched shriek,
people will know what happened.

You won't have time for it ;)

--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: 27 ��� � ����... ��-�-�� �� �������... (2:50/700)

Hello alexander koryagin!

** On Monday 10.10.22 - 09:56, alexander koryagin wrote to Bj?rn Felten:

[..] So, it is much better to recall the Caribbean crisis
and start to respect each other interests, make
concessions to each other.

Putin has not shown that he is interested to respect anyone's
interests except his own. And now, it is too late for him;
he's already started warring.

He can't show his face publicly outside own country. He is
deemed persona non grata by the international community. He
has put a target on his own back.

The Caribbean crisis episode and talks were different. Warring
had not yet begun.

--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: --> . <-- Oh look.. A point! (2:221/1.58)

Hello Oleg!

** On Monday 10.10.22 - 14:40, you wrote to Ward:

[...] And yes, we haven't even started yet. So, while
reluctantly warming up.

You really have no idea what freedom is, do you?

[...] Russia, by the way, gives its bread to Africa. Your
country only takes it.

Maybe that is a lie reported to you.

[...] Poked the bears with a stick with a nail - no, does
not answer, probably died. And when the bear swings, has
breakfast with vodka, pulls out a couple of conventional
hurricanes and goes waving, screaming "what are we for?"
it will be too late.

Speaking in cliches and is not a wise communication strategy.
It may only indicate how conditioned you are to think one way
only.

--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: --> . <-- Oh look.. A point! (2:221/1.58)

1) NATO != America

Nato without America is nothing.

As I said, I know that this is the "truth" in Russia. But you really should read up before you uncritically swallow the lies from Putin and his followers.

You have nothing but an excessive sense of self-worth anymore,

You? Me? American? ROTFL

Nato, together with the European Union, may disintegrate even
faster than Ukraine ;)

More propaganda from Mad Vlad and company? Now that Putin's bosom buddy, #45, no longer has any power, and the attempts to break up NATO is off the table, it's unity is stronger than ever. Some countries have even giving up a 200 year long alliance free stand point to join and strengthen the organisation.

2) I think you are thinking of how the USSR performed in the 1980s?

We were withdrawing troops from Afghanistan without shameful flight,

Even more history revision? The USSR's decade long "special military operation" in Afghanistan was the straw that finally broke the USSR camel's back and brought an end to a 70 year old failed experiment with bastardized communism, forever giving communism (and socialism) a bad name in certain societies.



--
United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hi, August Abolins!
I read your message from 11.10.2022 02:48

ak>> [..] So, it is much better to recall the Caribbean crisis
ak>> and start to respect each other interests, make
ak>> concessions to each other.
AA> Putin has not shown that he is interested to respect anyone's
AA> interests except his own. And now, it is too late for him;
AA> he's already started warring.

First of all, it is the authority in Kiev had showed clearly, after
2014, that it is not interested to respect people who voted against
them. This authority spat at their will, actually tried to brake over a
knee the population in Ukraine east and south.

AA> He can't show his face publicly outside own country. He is
AA> deemed persona non grata by the international community. He
AA> has put a target on his own back.

It so happened that the Ukraine coup and the following havoc happened
when Putin is in power. And because of that any Russian reaction looked discredited. But if you ask me who is more fucking and crazy in the
Ukraine I will say -- now doubts -- it is Ukraine ultra-nationalists who planted tones of hatred grains across Ukraine, making from Ukraine a
volcano of hate towards the Russian culture.

AA> The Caribbean crisis episode and talks were different. Warring
AA> had not yet begun.

Ukraine now looks like a fucking little boy who does mean things to his
older brother when parents a somewhere near and will hear his
deliberately loud howling when he get a deserved box on the ears from
his older brother. This boy is a good and mean actor. He is happy when
the older brother gets punishment from the parents and continues his
mean behaviour.

Bye, August!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2022
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* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

���ண� �६�窠, Bj�rn Felten.
�� ��ᠫ� 11.10.22 2:44:

1) NATO != America

Nato without America is nothing.

As I said, I know that this is the "truth" in Russia. But you really should read up before
you uncritically swallow the lies from Putin and his followers.

You have nothing but an excessive sense of self-worth anymore,

You? Me? American? ROTFL

Nato, together with the European Union, may disintegrate even faster than Ukraine ;)

More propaganda from Mad Vlad and company? Now that Putin's bosom buddy, #45, no longer has
any power, and the attempts to break up NATO is off the table, it's unity is stronger than
ever. Some countries have even giving up a 200 year long alliance free stand point to join and
strengthen the organisation.

200 years? That's all? Your memory is bad, you have to be reminded constantly. Also remember Alexander the Great. And Genghis Khan. The heirs suck. Blessed is he who believes. The more painful it will be to fall.

And yes - I don't watch Russian TV at all. Enough Western documentaries. Not a single fucking victory with an equal opponent. All you can do is rattle metal in front of unarmed Papuans.

2) I think you are thinking of how the USSR performed in the 1980s?

We were withdrawing troops from Afghanistan without shameful flight,

Even more history revision? The USSR's decade long "special military operation" in
Afghanistan was the straw that finally broke the USSR camel's back and brought an end to a 70
year old failed experiment with bastardized communism, forever giving communism (and
socialism) a bad name in certain societies.

Remind Vietnam? Hiroshima? Yugoslavia? Starving Africa in the former European colonies? 40 million homeless people in fucking capitalism? Is it "other"?

--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: 27 ��� � ����... ��-�-�� �� �������... (2:50/700)

���ண� �६�窠, August Abolins.
�� ��ᠫ� 10.10.22 19:55:

Hello Oleg! ** On Monday 10.10.22 - 14:40, you wrote to Ward:

[...] And yes, we haven't even started yet. So, while reluctantly warming up.

You really have no idea what freedom is, do you?

I seriously think that you don't know anything about real freedom.

[...] Russia, by the way, gives its bread to Africa. Your country only takes it.

Maybe that is a lie reported to you.

Of course Africa is lying! And the Russians are only doing what they lie to the whole honest world. Another thing is strange - why does Ukraine feed Africa at all, and not the European colonizers? Have you forgotten how to grow bread there with your freedom? Oh, but how will poor unhappy France live without Ukrainian steel now? The mousetrap closed.

[...] Poked the bears with a stick with a nail - no, does not answer, probably died. And when
the bear swings, has breakfast with vodka, pulls out a couple of conventional hurricanes and
goes waving, screaming "what are we for?" it will be too late.

Speaking in cliches and is not a wise communication strategy. It may only indicate how
conditioned you are to think one way only.

Well, of course you think for everyone, but of course, we believe right unconditionally ;)
Especially after the found production of a dirty bomb with Western components. Sincere concern for the neighbor straight. And well, how will it "fly" in your direction, have you ever wondered, no? By God's providence. A stoned, crazed Ukrainian monkey with a grenade can still think soberly and throw it to its destination.




--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: 27 ��� � ����... ��-�-�� �� �������... (2:50/700)

Oleg,

Of course Africa is lying! And the Russians are only doing what they lie
to the whole honest world.

Russian authorities are not lying to the world, but to the Russian population and by 100% controlling the media and wiping-out any dissent, the minds of ordinary Russians have been polluted for years on end.

BTW ... there are 120 freighters anchored in the Black Sea for grain transports and they can't move because Russian inspections take from 6 to 10 days per vessel ... how difficult can it be.

Oh, but how will poor unhappy
France live without Ukrainian steel now? The mousetrap closed.

Ukraine is going to be a worldwide supplier of scrap Russian steel.

Especially after the found production of a dirty bomb with Western components.

Even the rockets Russia is firing at innocent civilians have Western components ... and ... wow ... iPhones in Russia also have Western components.

Your boss has announced that Russia is going to be building its own airliners and move away from Boeing as well as Airbus ... that will be very amusing as more than 40% of the parts are US and European made and under sanctions. Whatever you find in a cockpit of the SSJ100 is Western made ... Bendix, Honeywell, ... and no way to build them for yourselves for at least another 10 years ... Amusing ... keep on going Oleg, at least you entertain.

In case you missed it, Russia has just lost its permanent seat in the ICAO.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

And yes - I don't watch Russian TV at all. Enough Western documentaries. Not a single fucking victory with an equal opponent. All you can do is rattle metal in front of unarmed Papuans.

I guess you are not allowed to know how USSR "won" the great war? Answer: it was all thanks to the USA. Not their military, but the workers (mostly women) over there. Before Mad Vlad screams Bloody Murder about how the west is sending help to Ukraine, maybe he should contemplate the following:

Even before the United States entered World War II in December 1941, USA sent arms and equipment to the Soviet Union to help it defeat the Nazi invasion. Totalling $11.3 billion, or $180 billion in today's currency, the Lend-Lease Act of the United States supplied needed goods to the Soviet Union from 1941 to 1945 in support of what Stalin described to Roosevelt as the "enormous and difficult fight against the common enemy -- bloodthirsty Hitlerism."

400,000 Jeeps & trucks
14,000 airplanes (!)
8,000 tractors
13,000 tanks (!)
1.5 million blankets
15 million pairs of army boots
107,000 tons of cotton
2.7 million tons of petrol products
4.5 million tons of food

Compare that to what the democratic world has sent to Ukraine to help the fight against the common enemy -- bloodthirsty Putinism.

Without this help, Hitler would have obliterated the USSR. Hmm... Maybe the world would have been a better place then (e.g. no Cold War, no Putinism), even if it might have taken a few months longer to liberate Europe. Germany had already lost the war circa early 1944, they just didn't realize it until their cities lay in ruins.


--
United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

���ண� �६�窠, Bj�rn Felten.
�� ��ᠫ� 11.10.22 15:09:

And yes - I don't watch Russian TV at all. Enough Western documentaries. Not a single fucking
victory with an equal opponent. All you can do is rattle metal in front of unarmed Papuans.

I guess you are not allowed to know how USSR "won" the great war? Answer: it was all thanks
to the USA. Not their military, but the workers (mostly women) over there. Before Mad Vlad
screams Bloody Murder about how the west is sending help to Ukraine, maybe he should
contemplate the following:

No one denies US aid. But what happened after 1945 did not fit into any gates. The common enemy disappeared and animal fear took its place. On both sides. Truman also spurred it on with Stalin's blackmail and the nuclear bombing of Japan. The struggle for hegemony in a world no longer threatened by Hitler has turned into a threat from a former ally, the USSR. If they were not afraid, they would not be engaged in the development of nuclear weapons.

Compare that to what the democratic world has sent to Ukraine to help the fight against the
common enemy -- bloodthirsty Putinism.

You didn't notice that USA and co. are you constantly looking for enemies all over the world? The "test tubes" in Iraq were invented, then Kosovo, then Vietnam, then Korea, then Afghanistan, then Gaddafi, socialism, communism - you can list endlessly! Now you invented new one - "putinism"... Why is Iceland not at war with anyone? And, in my opinion, Canada. Do they need the least? Or do the States need the most? ;) If the States turn away from Ukraine (they may well, they have their mouth full of internal problems) - Europe will not pull. At least with your own hands - you understand that the "gift" will arrive immediately and no one will yoke for you.

Today Ukraine send to Donbass some little radioactive gifts... By missiles. Are you sure that the same will not come to you? For example, you will stop supporting Ukraine, and its cocaine president will be offended... Maybe he's been blackmailing you for a long time, who knows ;) No, no one will be harnessed.

Without this help, Hitler would have obliterated the USSR. Hmm... Maybe the world would
have been a better place then (e.g. no Cold War, no Putinism), even if it might have taken a
few months longer to liberate Europe. Germany had already lost the war circa early 1944, they
just didn't realize it until their cities lay in ruins.

Unlikely. We would have had a little harder and possibly at a higher price, but hardly much.


--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: 27 ��� � ����... ��-�-�� �� �������... (2:50/700)

���ண� �६�窠, Ward Dossche.
�� ��ᠫ� 11.10.22 12:43:

Of course Africa is lying! And the Russians are only doing what they lie to the whole honest
world.

Russian authorities are not lying to the world, but to the Russian population and by 100%
controlling the media and wiping-out any dissent, the minds of ordinary Russians have been
polluted for years on end.

So you admit that Putin is telling the truth. Inside, we somehow learned over many decades to separate the wheat from the chaff.

BTW ... there are 120 freighters anchored in the Black Sea for grain transports and they can't
move because Russian inspections take from 6 to 10 days per vessel ... how difficult can it
be.

Your sanctions, we didn't pull anyone by the tongue.

Oh, but how will poor unhappy France live without Ukrainian steel now? The mousetrap closed.

Ukraine is going to be a worldwide supplier of scrap Russian steel.

So far, it turns out more and more Soviet and Western. But France does not need such a thing, such a se la vie.

Especially after the found production of a dirty bomb with Western components.

Even the rockets Russia is firing at innocent civilians have Western components ... and ...
wow ... iPhones in Russia also have Western components.

Naive. SSJ has already received domestic engines, not to mention small things. And somehow, unlike the West, we managed to preserve our aircraft production. In the USSR, we did not walk from Konigsberg to Nakhodka. And it was your gentle ears that forbade us to fly to Europe on our engines. We spit on your opinion from orbit ;)

And what kind of shit the iPhone is made of is a personal problem of the owners. Half of the services don't work on them anyway, including navigation - strange mountain people who buy this shit for the price of half a car ;)

Have fun for now, it won't be long. By the way, I have a completely different Boss ;)


--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
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���ண� �६�窠, Bj�rn Felten.
�� ��ᠫ� 11.10.22 2:44:

1) NATO != America

Nato without America is nothing.

As I said, I know that this is the "truth" in Russia. But you really should read up before
you uncritically swallow the lies from Putin and his followers.

Really? From where, working undercover?

I've been living too long not to understand which of you is lying ;)

You have nothing but an excessive sense of self-worth anymore,

You? Me? American? ROTFL

Well, English is basically a very poor language. Green green green green green ;) but in Russian it sounds like poetry ;)

Nato, together with the European Union, may disintegrate even faster than Ukraine ;)

More propaganda from Mad Vlad and company? Now that Putin's bosom buddy, #45, no longer has
any power, and the attempts to break up NATO is off the table, it's unity is stronger than
ever. Some countries have even giving up a 200 year long alliance free stand point to join and
strengthen the organisation.

Well no, it's Western propaganda ;)


--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
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���ண� �६�窠, alexander koryagin.
�� ��ᠫ� 11.10.22 10:05:

It so happened that the Ukraine coup and the following havoc happened when Putin is in power.
And because of that any Russian reaction looked discredited. But if you ask me who is more
fucking and crazy in the Ukraine I will say -- now doubts -- it is Ukraine ultra-nationalists
who planted tones of hatred grains across Ukraine, making from Ukraine a volcano of hate
towards the Russian culture.

They were quite successfully managed by the same ones who brainwashed the whole of Ukraine. And the collective West did all this.

And Putin - everyone in the West was satisfied. While he was scraping and begging. As soon as he changed his rhetoric to a bearish grin, he immediately became objectionable, non-friendly and discredited. And the West gave birth to sanctions just like lightning - it was prepared in advance, there could not have been any friendship initially, centuries ago.


--
WBR, ON

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���ண� �६�窠, August Abolins.
�� ��ᠫ� 10.10.22 19:48:

Putin has not shown that he is interested to respect anyone's interests except his own. And
now, it is too late for him; he's already started warring.

You are always afraid of the strong, that's good.
Nikita should have stayed calm in 1962, now the survivors in the West would have been more accommodating ;) The USSR then had every chance of success.


--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
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Your sanctions, we didn't pull anyone by the tongue.

The delays are in a Turkish port where Russians inspect the cargo. How difficult can it be to inspect a cargo of wheat ... takes 6-10 days.

Naive. SSJ has already received domestic engines, not to mention small things. And somehow, unlike the West, we managed to preserve our aircraft production.

Actually, the SSJ100 is an economic and technical disaster. Cityjet (Ireland) and Brussels Airlines (Belgium) sent their SSJ100s back. Very uneconomical and the inability to provide spare parts were at the source. VLM simply cancelled its order for 10. In Mexico they were taken off-line and basically they are only being used by Russian companies simply because they have to. The reliability of the Embraer 175 is much higher and the load-factor times 3.

Plus the high-impact accidents ... They will solely be used inside Russia, not making a profit and ordinary Russians will have to pay for them without flying them.

Have fun for now, it won't be long. By the way, I have a completely different Boss ;)

I'm going on an interesting voyage in 2.5 weeks from now. No hard feelings but I will noy miss you ...

Enjoy the day.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Hello Alexander,

[..]

Now it is time for Joe Biden to bring Zelensky and Putin together.
They will be sure to make peace with each other, both winning the
Nobel Peace Prize.

"Blessed are the Peacemakers, for they will be called children of
God." ~Matthew 5:9

For this the West should take a plunger piston to clean its eyes which don't see in the Ukraine two fighting nations and a nationalistic conflict. The idea that the war is caused only by the Putin's desire to capture Ukraine is wrong.

The Nobel Peace Prize was awarded to three people/groups this year.
Neither Trump nor Putin was mentioned.

For Life,
Lee

--
Work sets you free.

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Alexander,

UN Resolution 478 [passed] called Israel's action regarding
Jerusalem (Knesset claim of Jerusalem being capital of Israel)
as being "null and void."

The same applies to all other countries making such an audacious
claim. So what does it matter? Trump and Putin can claim
whatever they want. But that does not make it so.
Israeli army has tanks. Palestinian kids have rocks.
Guess which side always wins such contests?
Of course, things could change if NATO starts arming those
Palestinian kids will heavier stuff ...

A famous phrase "He is a son of bitch, but he is our son bitch" is still very actual. ;-)

The status of Jerusalem remains the same - special status placed
under international sovereignty control. Despite Putin and Trump
recognizing Jerusalem as the Jewish-only capital of Israel.
Imagine that. The only two countries in the world doing such a
thing. No wonder the UN doesn't pay any attention to them.

For Life,
Lee

--
Our Nuts, Your Mouth

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hi, Oleg Nazaroff!
I read your message from 11.10.2022 19:49

AK>> It so happened that the Ukraine coup and the following
AK>> havoc happened when Putin is in power. And because of that
AK>> any Russian reaction looked discredited. But if you ask me
AK>> who is more fucking and crazy in the Ukraine I will say --
AK>> now doubts -- it is Ukraine ultra-nationalists who planted
AK>> tones of hatred grains across Ukraine, making from Ukraine
AK>> a volcano of hate towards the Russian culture.
ON> They were quite successfully managed by the same ones who
ON> brainwashed the whole of Ukraine. And the collective West did
ON> all this. And Putin - everyone in the West was satisfied. While
ON> he was scraping and begging. As soon as he changed his rhetoric to a
ON> bearish grin, he immediately became objectionable, non-friendly and
ON> discredited. And the West gave birth to sanctions just like
lightning -
ON> it was prepared in advance, there could not have been any friendship
ON> initially, centuries ago.

First of all the West should gather some still unrotted brains and
realize the reason why Ukraine actions are unacceptable for Russia. They should understand that a capture of territories is not the reason. First
of all Ukraine has been loosing not territories, but its Russian people,
due to the fucking nationalistic policy for last 8 years.
Also the West must realize that Russian could not close its eyes on what
was happening with Russian people in Ukraine after 2014.

Bye, Oleg!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Lee Lofaso!
I read your message from 11.10.2022 23:40

LL>>> Now it is time for Joe Biden to bring Zelensky and
LL>>> Putin together. They will be sure to make peace with
LL>>> each other, both winning the Nobel Peace Prize.
LL>>> "Blessed are the Peacemakers, for they will be called
LL>>> children of God." ~Matthew 5:9
ak>> For this the West should take a plunger piston to clean its
ak>> eyes which don't see in the Ukraine two fighting nations
ak>> and a nationalistic conflict. The idea that the war is
ak>> caused only by the Putin's desire to capture Ukraine is
ak>> wrong.
LL> The Nobel Peace Prize was awarded to three people/groups this
LL> year. Neither Trump nor Putin was mentioned.

We can make a record table of Nobel price politicians according to
kilotons of TNT blown during their rule. ;-) Obama will be probably
first. :)

And in general, unlawful Americans military actions around the world
have little difference with what Putin is doing now. Just for some
reason people in the West treat Ukrainians as less inferior people than Iraqis, Afghans, Libyans, Panamanians. Probable white racism. ;=)

Bye, Lee!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Lee Lofaso!
I read your message from 11.10.2022 23:40

LL>>> The same applies to all other countries making such an
LL>>> audacious claim. So what does it matter? Trump and
LL>>> Putin can claim whatever they want. But that does not
LL>>> make it so. Israeli army has tanks. Palestinian kids
LL>>> have rocks. Guess which side always wins such contests?
LL>>> Of course, things could change if NATO starts arming
LL>>> those Palestinian kids will heavier stuff ...
ak>> A famous phrase "He is a son of bitch, but he is our son
ak>> bitch" is still very actual. ;-)
LL> The status of Jerusalem remains the same - special status placed
LL> under international sovereignty control. Despite Putin and Trump
LL> recognizing Jerusalem as the Jewish-only capital of Israel.
LL> Imagine that. The only two countries in the world doing such a
LL> ??thing. No wonder the UN doesn't pay any attention to them.

Does Putin recognized it? Never heard of it.

Bye, Lee!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

We can make a record table of Nobel price politicians according to
kilotons of TNT blown during their rule. ;-) Obama will be probably
first. :)

Making Obama the recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize at that moment in his presidency was a mistake. We'll never know what got in the Norwegians head when they decided that.

And in general, unlawful Americans military actions around the world
have little difference with what Putin is doing now. Just for some
reason people in the West treat Ukrainians as less inferior people than Iraqis, Afghans, Libyans, Panamanians. Probable white racism. ;=)

You need to travel a bit more to the west and experience first hand how it is going with all those refugees, not just what your single state controled medium is feeding you.

Besides, when are you leaving to the front?

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

First
of all Ukraine has been loosing not territories, but its Russian people, due to the fucking nationalistic policy for last 8 years.

In a free world with a free uncontrolled press, as we have it here, with free access to whatever newssource, you really think that only Russia would be aware if it were really the case? We know everything there is to know about the love-life of the three-legged Patagonian rabit living in burrows but nothing about Ukraine?

But one of the most controled societies with no free press, no free universal elections, no freedom of speech, no civil liberties with only the People's Republic of China and North Korea being worse, would be universally better informed?

Oh dear ...

You do realize there's very little difference between the pope in Rome with his dogmatic leadership and Putin? "Things are the way they are because I say so" ... no proof, no scientific support needed ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

���ண� �६�窠, alexander koryagin.
�� ��ᠫ� 12.10.22 9:37:

First of all the West should gather some still unrotted brains and realize the reason why
Ukraine actions are unacceptable for Russia. They should understand that a capture of
territories is not the reason. First of all Ukraine has been loosing not territories, but its
Russian people, due to the fucking nationalistic policy for last 8 years. Also the West must
realize that Russian could not close its eyes on what was happening with Russian people in
Ukraine after 2014.

Yes, we understand everything.. And Ward cares about Africa much more. Hungry refugees will come to his house. And to prevent this from happening, for some reason, it is Russia that must feed Africa. What is happening in Ukraine - Ward does not care...

--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
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���ண� �६�窠, Ward Dossche.
�� ��ᠫ� 12.10.22 9:38:

In a free world with a free uncontrolled press, as we have it here, with free access to
whatever newssource, you really think that only Russia would be aware if it were really the
case? We know everything there is to know about the love-life of the three-legged Patagonian
rabit living in burrows but nothing about Ukraine? But one of the most controled societies
with no free press, no free universal elections, no freedom of speech, no civil liberties with
only the People's Republic of China and North Korea being worse, would be universally better
informed?

Well, perhaps that's�what you believe.
The fact that the "free press" in Russia should only be engaged in propagandizing the change of power, objectionable to the West, rocking the boat in this direction, and then whining to the whole "free" world that it was misunderstood in Russia. We know, we have already swum. We see perfectly well how all these "liberation" technologies of yours work all over the world, including in Ukraine.
Are there no free elections in Russia? Did Western observers tell you this at our elections? Why do they write something completely different? Oh, yes, I forgot, "free press" is the freedom to lie. And how convenient.
What civil liberties do we not have, but do you have? The freedom to live in a cardboard box? Freedom not to work? Freedom to die because there is no health insurance?

You do realize there's very little difference between the pope in Rome with his dogmatic
leadership and Putin? "Things are the way they are because I say so" ... no proof, no
scientific support needed ...

No one forbids - the borders are open, with Western propaganda - to the west.

--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
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���ண� �६�窠, Ward Dossche.
�� ��ᠫ� 12.10.22 9:32:

Besides, when are you leaving to the front?

Why do you care so much about us at the front? I'm here now, we beat the fascist bastard. Do you want to join on the side of Ukraine? Go ahead! One Ward more, one less... You'll be the first to surrender. If you survive, maybe your brains will fall into place.


--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
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���ண� �६�窠, Ward Dossche.
�� ��ᠫ� 12.10.22 9:32:

And in general, unlawful Americans military actions around the world have little difference
with what Putin is doing now. Just for some reason people in the West treat Ukrainians as
less inferior people than Iraqis, Afghans, Libyans, Panamanians. Probable white racism. ;=)

You need to travel a bit more to the west and experience first hand how it is going with all
those refugees, not just what your single state controled medium is feeding you.

I have enough experience of living in the West, in different countries of the Europe and USA. And there is something to compare in Africa and Asia. So with propaganda, you're past.

--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
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���ண� �६�窠, Lee Lofaso.
�� ��ᠫ� 11.10.22 22:40:

A famous phrase "He is a son of bitch, but he is our son bitch" is still very actual. ;-)

The status of Jerusalem remains the same - special status placed under international
sovereignty control. Despite Putin and Trump recognizing Jerusalem as the Jewish-only capital
of Israel. Imagine that. The only two countries in the world doing such a thing. No wonder the
UN doesn't pay any attention to them.

Formally, yes, in reality, Jews continue to evict Palestinians, demolish their houses and build new ones on the same place, but for Jews. Only the Old City remains untouched (and of course a few kilometers around) - everything has been divided there for a long time and no seizures and wars really do not happen. The outskirts continue to displace the Palestinians. Which Jerusalem exactly does the UN have in mind? ;)

If anything, I can go to Jerusalem to live at any time ;) and it is within the limits of the Old City. Some time ago I was living in two countries. But I consider it my duty now to be together with Russia.


--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
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Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 12.10.2022 10:32

WD> Besides, when are you leaving to the front?

Who knows -- the two has entered in the taste and up the ante. Probably
many millions of people will be affected before one of the chess players
dies. And note, both sides claim and cry that their aims are holy,
highly moral and just. ;=)

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 12.10.2022 10:38

ak>> First of all Ukraine has been loosing not territories, but its
ak>> Russian people, due to the fucking nationalistic policy for last 8
ak>> years.

WD> In a free world with a free uncontrolled press, as we have it here,
WD> with free access to whatever newssource, you really think that only
WD> Russia would be aware if it were really the case? We know
WD> everything there is to know about the love-life of the three-legged
WD> Patagonian rabit living in burrows but nothing about Ukraine?

WD> But one of the most controled societies with no free press, no free
WD> universal elections, no freedom of speech, no civil liberties with
WD> only the People's Republic of China and North Korea being worse,
WD> would be universally better informed?

WD> Oh dear...

Again you are wrong -- if people in Russia want to read western media
they can do it -- we still have WWW without any (Great fire)walls as in
China or the North Korea. Yes, some Internet resources are blocked, but
it is only a formal blocking.

I mean that people have all the information about the events in Ukraine
to make a choice. But it is just impossible to tell them in honest that
"a good and fluffy Ukrainian troops have been shelling Donbass for 8
years to make it happy". Such an idiot idea can be born only in the
brains of those who never saw reports of Donbass bloody siege and
destruction. You of course will say that it is a propaganda lie -- but
there is no reason for Russia to lie about it. Millions of Ukrainians
who have fled from Donbass to Russia for last 8 years, are good witnesses.

https://www.interfax.ru/russia/843025
Use the Google translator if you are allowed to read Russian resources.

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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Oleg,

Yes, we understand everything.. And Ward cares about Africa much more. Hungry refugees will come to his house. And to prevent this from
happening, for some reason, it is Russia that must feed Africa. What is happening in Ukraine - Ward does not care...

Russia feeding Africa? Whatever you've been smoking, potent stuff.

Talk to the UNHCR.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

But I consider it my duty now to be together with Russia.

Put your money where your mouth is and die for Russia ...

No ?

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Well, perhaps that'swhat you believe.

"Believing" is done in a church (or a similar building).

The fact that the "free press" in Russia ...

There is no free press in Russia. It has been effectively shut down.

Are there no free elections in Russia? Did Western observers tell you
this at our elections? Why do they write something completely different?

Correct. There are no free elections in Russia. Anybody, anyone running for high office will hit a brick wall making it impossible to run for such office ... arrests. imprisonment, people's initiatives shut down by some law if can and by force if must.

The number of normal healthy people in positions of some power whom fell off balconies, steps, into the water ... killing themselves in the process ... nobody in their right minds accepts this "just happened by accident".

Russia at the moment is a power-corrupted rogue-nation at war with its own citizens and nobody can really say who or what's pulling strings...

Oh, yes, I forgot, "free press" is the freedom to lie.

If you consider Dossche's 17th law on the internet "Lying is an ultimate form of free speech" then you're getting closer to agree with me on something.

What civil liberties do we not have, but do you have?

* A multi-party political system which requires consensus for the benefit of
the people, not the benefit of the state

* The possibility to oppose our government without being jailed

* The possibility to unite

* The possibility to bear arms

* The possibility to wave a rainbow flag

* ... there's more where that came from.

No one forbids - the borders are open, with Western propaganda - to the west.

For that you need a passport ... do Russians carry passports?

Also you cannot be on specific lists because you will not be entitled to leave ...

Let me put it this way ... more Russian males are crossing the borders than the number that has been called up.

Remarkable nobody is fleeing towards Russia ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Such an idiot idea can be born only in the brains of those who never saw reports of Donbass bloody siege and destruction.

It was not a seige of Donbass. Russia has been in the Donbass for 8 years attacking Ukraine. I'm sure you understand that.

You of course will say that it is a propaganda lie

So it is.

-- but there is no reason for Russia to lie about it.

Russia is a good liar. How can they be trusted now?

Millions of Ukrainians who have fled from Donbass to Russia for last 8
years, are good witnesses.

Millions of Ukrainians (some 6.6 million) have fled the war, not Ukraine.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

���ண� �६�窠, Ward Dossche.
�� ��ᠫ� 12.10.22 14:22:

"Believing" is done in a church (or a similar building).

No. Because you can't know for sure and you only get the information you believe ;)

The fact that the "free press" in Russia ...

There is no free press in Russia. It has been effectively shut down.

OK, let's assume it's not there. Was there? And what exactly is it?

Are there no free elections in Russia? Did Western observers tell you this at our elections?
Why do they write something completely different?

Correct. There are no free elections in Russia. Anybody, anyone running for high office will
hit a brick wall making it impossible to run for such office ... arrests. imprisonment,
people's initiatives shut down by some law if can and by force if must.

Is this about Monsieur Ovalny? ;) I don't see any candidates in Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, France, etc. who would receive a donation to undermine the current government at the expense of Russia, for example ;) And Navalny didn't even hide it. And they were able to close it only after the Constitution was changed, eliminating the rights of the West to influence Russia's domestic policy. Who else?

The number of normal healthy people in positions of some power whom fell off balconies, steps,
into the water ... killing themselves in the process ... nobody in their right minds accepts
this "just happened by accident".

Stress breeds insanity, great stress - suicide. Look at how many conscripts committed suicide. This has never happened before and here it is again...

Russia at the moment is a power-corrupted rogue-nation at war with its own citizens and nobody
can really say who or what's pulling strings...

But�it was�an�emergency. The time will come when you will be surprised how much.

Oh, yes, I forgot, "free press" is the freedom to lie.

If you consider Dossche's 17th law on the internet "Lying is an ultimate form of free speech"
then you're getting closer to agree with me on something.

If only. But the West already recognizes the facts of lies.

What civil liberties do we not have, but do you have?

* A multi-party political system which requires consensus for the benefit of
the people, not the benefit of the state

And that's the way it is.

* The possibility to oppose our government without being jailed

Not during the period of military operations.

* The possibility to unite

In the public space - in consultation with the authorities. Where this is not the case, it leads to dangerous riots for society.
At the same time, no one forbids us to unite in a private space, which happens quite often.

* The possibility to bear arms

Debatable. Have, store, transport - please. But society is not ripe for carrying weapons - there are enough murders with "non-lethal" weapons. Lethal instills extra confidence, but it will not save you from competent bandits, but it will aggravate. I have many and varied weapons, but I never carry them with me. Unnecessarily.

* The possibility to wave a rainbow flag

No, this is a typical Western value. Fuck each other somehow. It is not worth promoting the deletion of oneself from the gene pool. May be misinterpreted ;)

No one forbids - the borders are open, with Western propaganda - to the west.

For that you need a passport ... do Russians carry passports?

How long has it been since crossing the border of Belgium and the USA without a passport??
How Russians carry passports - I don't care ;) I have my own with me only when moving somewhere to a neighboring region, for example. For medical care, for example. I don't need a passport in my city.

Also you cannot be on specific lists because you will not be entitled to leave ...

During the mobilization period, yes. Although also not everywhere. A week ago, there were no such lists at Sheremetyevo-2 airport.

Let me put it this way ... more Russian males are crossing the borders than the number that
has been called up.

It's their own business. A lot of people are returning right now from Kazakhstan - they are being tritely beaten on the streets there. An unenviable fate that there that here... Fear is what drives people. Do you think I'm not scared? ;) The first chakra is a pledge of self-preservation. But everyone has their own level... those who have served, but not shot, come to us - they are brought to a normal state exclusively by talking about it, and only then by special training..

Remarkable nobody is fleeing towards Russia ...

I wrote above. They run - there is nowhere else. Nobody needs pussies.

--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: 27 ��� � ����... ��-�-�� �� �������... (2:50/700)

���ண� �६�窠, Ward Dossche.
�� ��ᠫ� 12.10.22 14:18:

But I consider it my duty now to be together with Russia.

Put your money where your mouth is and die for Russia ... No ?

Definitely not. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best and be what it should. Well, who else besides us?

--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: 27 ��� � ����... ��-�-�� �� �������... (2:50/700)

���ண� �६�窠, Ward Dossche.
�� ��ᠫ� 12.10.22 13:51:

Oleg,

Yes, we understand everything.. And Ward cares about Africa much more. Hungry refugees will
come to his house. And to prevent this from happening, for some reason, it is Russia that
must feed Africa. What is happening in Ukraine - Ward does not care...

Russia feeding Africa? Whatever you've been smoking, potent stuff.

Imagine that. But your fucking sanctions allow to transfer grain only to Europe. OK, stay hungry. You can cheat only once.
Starving people will also come to you ;)


--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: 27 ��� � ����... ��-�-�� �� �������... (2:50/700)

Also the West must realize that Russian could not close its eyes on what was happening with Russian people in Ukraine after 2014.

How do you define "Russian people"? None of them having a Ukrainian citizenship, only Russian?

In about seven weeks, 1 December 2022, it will be exactly 30 years since the *Ukrainian* people voted for independence from Russia, with an overwhelming 96.3% for and 3.7% against. In a *proper* referendum, nothing like the fake ones Russia is so fond of, inside as well as outside of Russia.

It didn't take long before many Russians realized that their new Russia remained the same authoritarian, corrupt country as was the USSR, so those that lived nearby the newly created *democratic* country next door, sold all they had and emigrated to Ukraine -- mostly to the regions closest to the Russian border.

Ukraine welcomed those immigrants with open arms, granting them Ukrainian citizenship. Unfortunately the Putinists soon started sending all kinds of thugs as well, and those started all kinds of insurrections and blatant terrorist actions. And the rest is sad, unfortunate history...

So don't you come here with your fucking Putinist propaganda; out here in the free world we have enough facts, past as well as present, to be able to expose all your lies and fairy-tales.


--
United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

..

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* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

���ண� �६�窠, Bj�rn Felten.
�� ��ᠫ� 12.10.22 15:55:

In about seven weeks, 1 December 2022, it will be exactly 30 years since the *Ukrainian*
people voted for independence from Russia, with an overwhelming 96.3% for and 3.7% against. In
a *proper* referendum, nothing like the fake ones Russia is so fond of, inside as well as
outside of Russia.

In 1991, Crimea held a referendum with the results of 93% for the return of the status of an autonomous Soviet socialist republic as part of the union state, but instead received the formal status of autonomy within the Ukrainian SSR. Subsequently, President of Ukraine Kuchma repeatedly stated that Crimea received the status of autonomy in general only in order to smooth out popular unrest. Crimea has not received any real autonomy. That is, a deception on the part of Ukraine. Is it surprising that in 2014 the referendum was repeated and Crimea was accepted into Russia???
What kind of annexation? This is a secession.


--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: 27 ��� � ����... ��-�-�� �� �������... (2:50/700)

Hello Alexander,

[..]

The Nobel Peace Prize was awarded to three people/groups this
year. Neither Trump nor Putin was mentioned.

We can make a record table of Nobel price politicians according to kilotons of TNT blown during their rule. ;-) Obama will be probably
first. :)

I think we all know who invented TNT. :)

And in general, unlawful Americans military actions around the world
have little difference with what Putin is doing now.

Howard Zinn wrote a book on it. An entire history of US actions.
But who is to say other countries have not done the same?

Just for some reason people in the West treat Ukrainians as less inferior people than Iraqis, Afghans, Libyans, Panamanians.

"Is that manly?"
~ Saddam Hussein's last words to his Shiite executioners

"No mas!"
~ Roberto Duran's last words to Sugar Ray Leonard in New Orleans

Probable white racism. ;=)

"These are not my real teeth."
~ Sugar Ray Leonard to Roberto Duran, years later

For Life,
Lee

--
The more you play with it the harder it gets

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Alexander,

[..]

Does Putin recognized it? Never heard of it.

Putin has traveled to Israel at least twice, that I know of.
With a sizeable Jewish population in Russia, that would make
sense, as immigration issues would be of importance to both
countries.

Recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel by Putin
and Trump mean nothing in regards to international recognition.
Or even in regards to national policy. It is just a personal
opinion.

For Life,
Lee

--
Nothing sucks like an Electrolux

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Oleg,

[..]

Formally, yes, in reality, Jews continue to evict Palestinians, demolish their houses and build new ones on the same place, but for Jews. Only the Old City remains untouched (and of course a few kilometers around) - everything has been divided there for a long time and no seizures and wars really do not happen. The outskirts continue to displace the Palestinians. Which Jerusalem exactly does the UN have in mind? ;)

Israel has disregarded international law for decades. No surprise
there. It acts more like a theocracy than a democracy, and the only
people who have any rights are Jewish. Palestinians are basically
stateless, with no real voice to change their situation.

If anything, I can go to Jerusalem to live at any time ;) and it is within the limits of the Old City. Some time ago I was living in two countries. But I consider it my duty now to be together with Russia.

The Right of Return.

Any Jew around the world enjoys the right to live in Israel and to
obtain Israeli citizenship under Israel's Law of Return.

No other country in the world has such a rule.

The USA does not recognize dual citizenship. Except for those who
are from Vatican City and Israel. Only an act of Congress can grant
dual citizenship to others, such as Arnold Schwarzenegger, who got
his dual citizenship (Austria and USA) by marrying a Kennedy.

Steven Segal managed to get dual citizenship by having Vladimir
Putin wave his magic wand and nobody questioned anything.

And to think Segal did it without an act of Congress.

I love his movies. Fun to work with, when he was filming a series
in New Orleans. Getting a bit too old for that sort of thing today.

For Life,
Lee

--
We Put Big Loads In Tight Places

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Ward,

Yes yes. The whole world saw how brave Americans escaped from the Taliban
in rags and with rusty machine guns ;)

They ran from then Saigon in the 1980-ies.

The US does not know how to exit wars well. Its exit from Saigon
and Vietnam was an unmitigated disaster. Nobody questions that, or
should. The US military could have held its ground, keeping the
partition of Vietnam in place forever. But the reality is the US
should had left years before, when LBJ had a peace deal in place
for when Nixon took over as POTUS.

They didn't run in Afghanistan.

Although the US exit from Afghanistan was far from perfect, it was
done much better than its exit from Vietnam. No refugees having to
be rescued from the rooftop of the US embassy, no refugees fleeing
on rickety boats to nowhere ...

Most of the American operations had already been contracted out to private companies with limited military presence. Friend of mine was there, the salaries were so high he bought a $320.000 house cash ... with the money in
his pocket ... earned in 3 years. This was like 6yrs ago already.

Those who did not get killed, or captured for ransom, fared pretty
well. Aside from Kabul, there was no real protection from the Taliban
by the US military. And even then, the Taliban were able to conduct
raids inside the city.

Afghanistan troops were incompetent of provading security, that's why the US
left, shouldn't have been there in the first place.

Afghanistan troops were poorly armed, and poorly trained. Even though
the US military was present for twenty years. The Taliban was also
poorly armed, and poorly trained. But they had more enthusiasm to do
what they wanted to do. Which was the difference.

But do not confuse NATO with America. There are several more nuclear capable
countries member of NATO.

How long would it take Germany to arm itself with nukes?
How long would it take Italy to arm itself with nukes?
How long would it take other countries in Europe to do so?
France already has a stockpile. So does the UK.

Britain in 1982 went to war 13.000km away and beat the shit out of Argentina...without nukes. Just conventional.

Russia is nothing more than a giant gas station with nukes.
Its ability to use nukes is its equalizer. Otherwise, its military
might is quite limited - as demonstrated by its inability to bend
Ukraine to its will.

That is what Bjorn was saying, conventionally the Russian army is not a threat anymore.

It remains a threat. But its neighbors are starting to realize that
threat is not nearly as great as its roar.

Just the nukes, and in a nuclear war there are no winners.

Ants and cockroaches win. Everybody else loses.

I think we agree on that ...

As per the contest between ants and cockroaches ...

[..]

I live pretty close to NATO HQ here, if one day my node goes into a high-pitched shriek, people will know what happened.

Oh, my. Radioactive ants and cockroaches. Who'd a thunk it?

For Life,
Lee

--
Laying Pipe Since '88

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Ward,

[..]

I'm going on an interesting voyage in 2.5 weeks from now. No hard feelings but I will noy miss you ...

Space X.
First Belgian in space, following in Dave Bowman's footsteps.

Enjoy the day.

"Will I dream?"
~ HAL 9000

For Life,
Lee

--
Drive One

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Ward,

We can make a record table of Nobel price politicians according to
kilotons of TNT blown during their rule. ;-) Obama will be probably
first. :)

Making Obama the recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize at that moment in his presidency was a mistake. We'll never know what got in the Norwegians head when they decided that.

Making Begin and Sadat recipients of the Nobel Peace Prize without
naming Carter was a mistake. We'll never know what got into the
Norwegians head when they decided that. But at least they made up
for it later, granting him the Nobel Peace Prize for something
else (that nobody can remember).

And to think they did it again, with Rabin and Arafat, leaving out
Clinton. Oh, my. What were those Norwegians thinking???

But hey. At least they got it right with Obama. Naming him the winner
of the Nobel Peace Prize before he did anything of merit.

And in general, unlawful Americans military actions around the world
have little difference with what Putin is doing now. Just for some
reason people in the West treat Ukrainians as less inferior people than
Iraqis, Afghans, Libyans, Panamanians. Probable white racism. ;=)

You need to travel a bit more to the west and experience first hand how it is going with all those refugees, not just what your single state controled
medium is feeding you.

Yes. Come to Louisiana. Leave different. Rougarou festival later this
month. Cajuns from all over dress as monsters. Some of them are real.

Besides, when are you leaving to the front?

There's a monster under my bed ...

For Life,
Lee

--
Pork: the other white meat

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Ward,

But I consider it my duty now to be together with Russia.

Put your money where your mouth is and die for Russia ...

Hitler fled to South America rather than die for Germany ...

No ?

He left his girlfriend, and his dog, behind.

For Life,
Lee

--
If it doesn't say Jiffy Lube, it's not Jiffy Lube

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

a *proper* referendum, nothing like the fake ones Russia is so fond of, inside as well as
outside of Russia.

In 1991, Crimea held a referendum

What part of *proper* referendum, and so on, did you not understand?


--
United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hi, Alan Ianson!
I read your message from 12.10.2022 16:08

ak>> Such an idiot idea can be born only in the brains of those who
ak>> never saw reports of Donbass bloody siege and destruction.

AI> It was not a seige of Donbass. Russia has been in the Donbass for 8
AI> years attacking Ukraine. I'm sure you understand that.

I am sure you know it was not Russian troops. We can see the same kind
of foreign people in Ukraine fighting on Zelensky side, and nobody says
that NATO participated in the conflict directly.
Russian troops entered Ukraine in February 2022.

ak>> You of course will say that it is a propaganda lie
AI> So it is.
ak>> -- but there is no reason for Russia to lie about it.
AI> Russia is a good liar. How can they be trusted now?

Who has never lied - let him first cast a stone at me. ;-)

ak>> Millions of Ukrainians who have fled from Donbass to Russia for
ak>> last 8 years, are good witnesses.

AI> Millions of Ukrainians (some 6.6 million) have fled the war, not
AI> Ukraine.

Only note, they fled to Russia not to Ukraine.

Bye, Alan!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Bj?rn Felten!
I read your message from 12.10.2022 16:55

ak>> Also the West must realize that Russian could not close its eyes
ak>> on what was happening with Russian people in Ukraine after 2014.

BF> How do you define "Russian people"? None of them having a Ukrainian
BF> citizenship, only Russian?

It is easy. There was old Russia, then it had become the USSR, and
Russians consists of the main part of it. After dissolving the USSR tens millions of Russian people appeared to live in the former USSR states.
Some nationalists who came to power there wanted them to refuse to call themselves Russians. They say if you now in Ukraine, for instance, you
must be called Ukrainians (according western Ukrainian standards, and
Ukraine language).
In Ukraine there was an attempt to make millions Russians change his nationality by force and violence. It happened when ultra-nationalist
forces came to power in 2014.

BF> In about seven weeks, 1 December 2022, it will be exactly 30 years
BF> since the *Ukrainian* people voted for independence from Russia,
BF> with an overwhelming 96.3% for and 3.7% against. In a *proper*
BF> referendum, nothing like the fake ones Russia is so fond of, inside
BF> as well as outside of Russia.

Also in 1991 the USSR held a referendum that asked did people wish to
preserve the USSR. People of Ukraine also supported the USSR. Which
referendum is more honest?

BF> It didn't take long before many Russians realized that their new
BF> Russia remained the same authoritarian, corrupt country as was the
BF> USSR, so those that lived nearby the newly created *democratic*
BF> country next door, sold all they had and emigrated to Ukraine --
BF> mostly to the regions closest to the Russian border.

Everything was OK for Russians in Ukraine until 2014, and Yanukovich was
a really democratic leader. But the things changed dramatically. There
is no democracy in Ukraine now.

BF> So don't you come here with your fucking Putinist propaganda; out
BF> here in the free world we have enough facts, past as well as
BF> present, to be able to expose all your lies and fairy-tales.

Putin for you is as Carabas-Barabas from the Pinoccio tale. You as a
child cannot see anything behind his beard.

Bye, Bj?rn!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Lee Lofaso!
I read your message from 13.10.2022 00:59

ak>> Did Putin recognize it? Never heard of it.
LL> Putin has traveled to Israel at least twice, that I know of.
LL> With a sizeable Jewish population in Russia, that would make
LL> sense, as immigration issues would be of importance to both
LL> countries.

Travelling is not recognition in such issues.

Bye, Lee!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

���ண� �६�窠, Bj�rn Felten.
�� ��ᠫ� 13.10.22 1:55:

a *proper* referendum, nothing like the fake ones Russia is so fond of, inside as well as
outside of Russia.

In 1991, Crimea held a referendum

What part of *proper* referendum, and so on, did you not understand?

And it was by the right proper legal referendum of 1991 that the people of Crimea were deceived by Ukraine! You really do NOT understand.

I wonder why Israel can do the same thing without a referendum and without looking to the international community, but Russia cannot. Because it's a stab in the throat for the West - tomorrow someone else will want to do the same? An animal fear of losing hegemony is what it is.
And all our referendums are freely supervised by the West.

--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: 27 ��� � ����... ��-�-�� �� �������... (2:50/700)

���ண� �६�窠, Lee Lofaso.
�� ��ᠫ� 12.10.22 23:59:

Formally, yes, in reality, Jews continue to evict Palestinians, demolish their houses and
build new ones on the same place, but for Jews. Only the Old City remains untouched (and of
course a few kilometers around) - everything has been divided there for a long time and no
seizures and wars really do not happen. The outskirts continue to displace the Palestinians.
Which Jerusalem exactly does the UN have in mind? ;)

Israel has disregarded international law for decades. No surprise there. It acts more like a
theocracy than a democracy, and the only people who have any rights are Jewish. Palestinians
are basically stateless, with no real voice to change their situation.

But the UN has been condemning it since 1948, so how come? Where are the sanctions against Israel? Are they - in the fact that the U.S. supports dual citizenship specifically with Israel? Or in the fact that 160 countries are available to Israelis for visa-free entry? ;)

If anything, I can go to Jerusalem to live at any time ;) and it is within the limits of the
Old City. Some time ago I was living in two countries. But I consider it my duty now to be
together with Russia.

The Right of Return. Any Jew around the world enjoys the right to live in Israel and to obtain
Israeli citizenship under Israel's Law of Return. No other country in the world has such a
rule.

Well, why not? Russia accepts anyone, along with the territory ;)

The USA does not recognize dual citizenship. Except for those who are from Vatican City and
Israel. Only an act of Congress can grant dual citizenship to others, such as Arnold
Schwarzenegger, who got his dual citizenship (Austria and USA) by marrying a Kennedy.

Don't give a damn about the United States from a high bell tower.

Steven Segal managed to get dual citizenship by having Vladimir Putin wave his magic wand and
nobody questioned anything.

In principle, anyone can obtain Russian citizenship. Russians - in a simplified procedure.
Moreover, new citizens can obtain land in Russia absolutely free of charge.


--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: 27 ��� � ����... ��-�-�� �� �������... (2:50/700)

I am sure you know it was not Russian troops.

I am sure Russian troops took part in the attacks and supplied military equipment.

We can see the same kind of foreign people in Ukraine fighting on Zelensky side,

There are also many foreign fighters on the Russian side. That's not unusual.

and nobody says that NATO participated in the conflict directly.
Russian troops entered Ukraine in February 2022.

That's because NATO is not part of this conflict.

Russia did invade Ukraine Feb 24, 2022 with a military of roughly 180,000 troops, but they had boots on the ground in Ukraine before that in the eastern part of the country.

Russia is a good liar. How can they be trusted now?

Who has never lied - let him first cast a stone at me. ;-)

I am speaking of the propaganda fueled nation of Russia, I am not calling you a liar. I think you are honest with us if not incorrect.

Millions of Ukrainians (some 6.6 million) have fled the war, not
Ukraine.

Only note, they fled to Russia not to Ukraine.

Of course. They fled the war and since Russia is making war in Ukraine they fled Ukraine.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Oleg wrote (2022-10-12):

Доброго времечка, BjФrn Felten.
Вы писали 12.10.22 15:55:

In about seven weeks, 1 December 2022, it will be exactly 30
years since the *Ukrainian* people voted for independence from
Russia, with an overwhelming 96.3% for and 3.7% against. In a
*proper* referendum, nothing like the fake ones Russia is so fond
of, inside as well as outside of Russia.

In 1991, Crimea held a referendum with the results of 93% for the return of the status of an autonomous Soviet socialist republic as part of the union state, but instead received the formal status of autonomy within
the Ukrainian SSR.

So you think the annexation of Crimea by Russia was justified, because of that Referendum? What part of "autonomy" don't you understand?

Btw:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Tatars

"After the annexation of Crimea by Russian Federation, Crimean Tatars are reportedly persecuted and discriminated by Russian authorities, including cases of torture, arbitrary detentions, forced disappearances by Russian security forces and courts."

---
* Origin: War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. (2:280/464.47)

Also in 1991 the USSR held a referendum that asked did people wish to preserve the USSR. People of Ukraine also supported the USSR. Which referendum is more honest?

Let me see now. An honest referendum organized by the USSR? Yeah, that's a tough one... 8-)


--
United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Oleg wrote (2022-10-13):

And it was by the right proper legal referendum of 1991 that the people
of Crimea were deceived by Ukraine!

So what does Russia have to do with it?

Catalonia had an referendum too and independence was denied. Why didn't Catalonia become part of Russia?

You really do NOT understand.

You really do NOT understand.

I wonder why Israel can do the same thing without a referendum and
without looking to the international community, but Russia cannot.

What fucking referendum are you talking about? The fake ones or the one that doesn't invite Russia for occupation?

---
* Origin: War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. (2:280/464.47)

���ண� �६�窠, alexander koryagin.
�� ��ᠫ� 13.10.22 9:58:

In about seven weeks, 1 December 2022, it will be exactly 30 years since the *Ukrainian*
people voted for independence from Russia, with an overwhelming 96.3% for and 3.7% against.
In a *proper* referendum, nothing like the fake ones Russia is so fond of, inside as well as
outside of Russia.

Also in 1991 the USSR held a referendum that asked did people wish to preserve the USSR.
People of Ukraine also supported the USSR. Which referendum is more honest?

Thus, some individuals, for their own benefit, ignored the opinion of the entire population of the USSR and illegally ruined the country. As we now know - for the money and personal privileges of the United States.

So don't you come here with your fucking Putinist propaganda; out here in the free world we
have enough facts, past as well as present, to be able to expose all your lies and
fairy-tales.

Putin for you is as Carabas-Barabas from the Pinoccio tale. You as a child cannot see
anything behind his beard.

;)

--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: 27 ��� � ����... ��-�-�� �� �������... (2:50/700)

���ண� �६�窠, Alan Ianson.
�� ��ᠫ� 12.10.22 6:08:

Such an idiot idea can be born only in the brains of those who never saw reports of Donbass
bloody siege and destruction.

It was not a seige of Donbass. Russia has been in the Donbass for 8 years attacking Ukraine.
I'm sure you understand that.

In 2014, in the words of Obama, "Russia was the gas station of Europe". We were not even supplying gasoline or diesel fuel, but raw materials for production (crude oil) and gas for the EU's electricity and heat generation facilities. EU was 36% dependent on them, and we were 51% dependent on revenues from these exports. In this situation it was unclear, who was on the hook for whom?

There was a mutual interest of both Europe and Russia, and only the US had no interest here. More precisely, their interest was to ruin all the fun for Russia and the EU. The calculation is simple - Russia was and remains an existential foe of the US, and the EU is a competitor, for whose market in the 21st century and the war broke out under the conventional name "Abduction of Europe". Is it symbolic that a monument of the same name has been standing on the square near the Kievsky railway station in Moscow for 15 years ;) At that time US had a negative trade balance with the EU, and Obama's very reasonable idea, which was later brilliantly implemented by Trump, was to raise the cost of raw materials for the EU, which would instantly affect the cost of its products, after which the products automatically become uncompetitive in the domestic American market, and if you replace cheap Russian "undemocratic" pipe gas with expensive American "democratic" LPG, then the US will have a double benefit.

At the time of 2014, there was no NorthStream-2 at all. The capacities of the then available NS-1 (55 bcm/y), the Ukrainian GTS (142 bcm/y) and the Yamal-EU pipeline (33 bcm/y) were quite sufficient to fulfill all Gazprom's obligations to its European consumers. With only one correction - Poland and Ukraine impeded in every possible way the modernization of their GTS (Poland under the influence of American friends, and Ukraine, then with Yanukovych, bargaining with Russia, who would carry out this modernization and at whose expense). As a result, there were ideas of bypassing routes - South Stream and NS-2. But South Stream was buried through the efforts of Bulgaria that is under the US gun barrel. We are lucky that Erdogan popped up in time then and instead of the South Stream there appeared Turkish Stream with capacity of 32bcma, a half of which goes to Turkey, the other half to Southern Europe (Bulgaria is biting its lips, but it's too late). What was Putin to do when Ukraine suffered a coup d'tat in 2014? Fifty-one percent of the Russian budget was at stake!

There was one small chance to keep Ukraine in the sphere of his influence by supporting Yanukovich, but Putin did not use it then, limiting himself to Crimea. To what extent this was justified was shown by subsequent events. There is an opinion that this was the Kremlin's fatal mistake. Indirectly, he acknowledged it by not repeating it in August 2020, when a similar threat emerged in Belarus. Then Putin supported Lukashenko, even in spite of his controversial actions the day before (with the detention of Wagner fighters), concentrating his power fist on the borders of Belarus. This was quite enough for Bat'ka to retain power in the country. The Belarusian security forces did not falter and did not betray their "mustachioed tyrant". The law enforcement agencies of Ukraine in 2014 were also ready to resist to the end; the only problem was that Yanukovych was not Lukashenko at all. He ran away, the scoundrel! It would have been possible to use him as a president-in-exile, but Putin did not take the risk. Because gas transit to the EU was at stake. And one can understand Putin.

Hypothetically, Putin would have used the permission of the Russian Council of Federation to use troops beyond Russian borders and the request of fugitive President Yanukovych for help in restoring the constitutional order violated by the conspirators, and would have introduced troops into Ukraine. Even with the overwhelming support of the local population (except in the western regions everyone would have welcomed the Russian "tired battalion" with flowers) and minimal opposition from the "rebel" opposition (which would most likely have dispersed even before the Russian tanks arrived), what would be the reaction to all this in the West? By no stretch of the imagination, Putin would have been accused of suppressing democracy, of armed invasion, and of imposing sanctions on the transit of Russian gas and oil to Europe. And even Putin's last sympathizers in the EU could do nothing about it in the face of the obvious fact of "crushed Ukrainian democracy". They would have doomed themselves by closing the valve on the "aggressor's" pipe to Europe, even realizing that after that it would be a "pipe job" for them. As a result, Obama could write his name in the annals of American history - no one has ever managed to put both of America's enemies in such a beautiful, bloodless way for the US with a single blow! But Putin didn't give him that satisfaction - he avenged his revenge for Ukraine in Syria, after which the life of the overly tanned leader of the American pale-faced Comanches lost all colors, and he moved on to his favorite pastime of all American presidents - writing his memoirs under the title "Me and the Genius of Putin's Villainy".

For all the hard feelings of the Russian and pro-Russian oriented Ukrainians toward Putin, Putin did not have much choice in the events of 8 years ago. He acted according to circumstances, wagering and minimizing the risks for Russia as number two. As regrettable as it is for me to admit, our sworn "friends and partners" acted as number one. There was a small chance to keep Ukraine in the orbit of Russian influence right at the time of the coup (December 2013-January 2014), but the Kremlin was indecisive, watching from a distance how everything would end, and Yanukovich was cowardly and politically shortsighted, giving in to the entreaties of Western observers and making a deal with the conspirators. You know how it ended for him. How it ended for Russia, too. The Kremlin and Putin in particular have drawn the appropriate conclusions. The main conclusion is as follows: you must not trust the West under any circumstances; they will deceive you, smile, deceive you once more, and then say that you simply misunderstand them.

This is just a retrospective analysis of 2014. Our descendants will probably write about this year.
And one more thing - everything the West calls the Russian special forces in Donbass belongs to the "pen" of the only _former_ strongman Girkin, known by the nickname Strelkov. Who, for personal reasons, disobeyed a direct order to leave Donbass. Russia did have a presence in the Donbass afterwards - but only in the form of humanitarian convoys. Look back, how often did the West pray for Putin? The almighty Putin, Figaro here, Figaro there - changing governments in the West, rigging free elections, all (almost absolutely) of the West's own misfortunes were assigned to Putin in advance. Convenient as hell! Well, since you yourself have elevated Putin to the rank of all-powerful... The weather in the West is also regulated by Putin, no doubt about it - General Heat has shot off, now wait for General Frost. And General Armageddon, who has been on duty for a couple of days, as well ;)


--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
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First Belgian in space, following in Dave Bowman's footsteps.

Frank De Winne was the commander of the ISS plus I worked for Dirk Frimout who was a Space Shuttle astronaut aboard Atlantis..

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

I wonder why Israel can do the same thing without a referendum and
without looking to the international community, but Russia cannot.

Do not pull a Witt on us ....

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

In 2014, in the words of Obama, "Russia was the gas station of Europe".
We were not even supplying gasoline or diesel fuel, but raw materials for production (crude oil) and gas for the EU's electricity and heat
generation facilities. EU was 36% dependent on them, and we were 51% dependent on revenues from these exports. In this situation it was
unclear, who was on the hook for whom?

Etc etc etc etc .....

Nice cut and paste from somewhere else ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Thus, some individuals, for their own benefit, ignored the opinion of
the entire population of the USSR and illegally ruined the country.

So the people of the USSR voted for keeping Ukraine? That doesn't sound like the people of Ukraine had anything to say about it.

As we now know - for the money and personal privileges of the United States.

LOL! *We* now know? What *we* are you talking about? What had the USA to gain? It was the USSR that had a lot to gain from keeping their bread basket for almost a century, Ukraine.

We've already seen, on satellite photos, how Russia has stolen thousands of tons of Ukrainian wheat and shipped it to Syria and African countries. Maybe the people of Ukraine voted for this too?

"Look friends, Uncle Putin comes bearing gifts to those that support our glorious empire! As long as we control Sevastopol and the Black Sea, we can keep stealing as much as you need, friends."


--
United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

���ண� �६�窠, Ward Dossche.
�� ��ᠫ� 13.10.22 12:09:

In 2014, in the words of Obama, "Russia was the gas station of Europe". We were not even
supplying gasoline or diesel fuel, but raw materials for production (crude oil) and gas for
the EU's electricity and heat generation facilities. EU was 36% dependent on them, and we
were 51% dependent on revenues from these exports. In this situation it was unclear, who was
on the hook for whom?

Etc etc etc etc ..... Nice cut and paste from somewhere else ...

Translated for non-Russian speakers.
And you basically don't care. As long as you're not touched. And we don't really care about you ;)

--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
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���ண� �६�窠, Ward Dossche.
�� ��ᠫ� 13.10.22 12:03:

I wonder why Israel can do the same thing without a referendum and without looking to the
international community, but Russia cannot.

Do not pull a Witt on us ....

Why not? Do not overplay, and do not hope. Any successful precedent can be repeated again.

--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
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���ண� �६�窠, Bj�rn Felten.
�� ��ᠫ� 13.10.22 10:18:

Also in 1991 the USSR held a referendum that asked did people wish to preserve the USSR.
People of Ukraine also supported the USSR. Which referendum is more honest?

Let me see now. An honest referendum organized by the USSR? Yeah, that's a tough one...
8-)

So the West does not recognize any ;) only the West is always right, the rest of the world has no right to vote...

--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
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���ண� �६�窠, Oli.
�� ��ᠫ� 13.10.22 9:27:

And it was by the right proper legal referendum of 1991 that the people of Crimea were
deceived by Ukraine!

So what does Russia have to do with it?

Accepted the rights and obligations of the USSR. For all former republics, including Ukraine. And paid the external public debt of the entire USSR. Only for this reason has all the rights of the USSR, including the right to the territories belonging and transferred to someone within the USSR.

Catalonia had an referendum too and independence was denied. Why didn't Catalonia become part
of Russia?

This is the problem of Catalonia, not Russia. We did not annex Catalonia ;)

You really do NOT understand.

You really do NOT understand.

And you'll never understand.

I wonder why Israel can do the same thing without a referendum and without looking to the
international community, but Russia cannot.

What fucking referendum are you talking about? The fake ones or the one that doesn't invite
Russia for occupation?

One more time. You do not recognize the results of any referendums in the USSR and Russia. Then what do you care at all? Deal with the country of which you are a citizen.

--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
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���ண� �६�窠, Oli.
�� ��ᠫ� 13.10.22 8:52:

In 1991, Crimea held a referendum with the results of 93% for the return of the status of an
autonomous Soviet socialist republic as part of the union state, but instead received the
formal status of autonomy within the Ukrainian SSR.

So you think the annexation of Crimea by Russia was justified, because of that Referendum? What
part of "autonomy" don't you understand?

Don't pull the owl on the globe ;) The referendum was held twice with 93 and 97% of the votes in favor. The remaining 7 and 3% disagree, but that's what the vote is, decisive majority. I didn't even doubt the development of the Western way of thinking ;)

Annexation - against the will of the population, secession - at the will of the population. But the West has never been interested in the will of the people, exclusively in its own interests. For the West, it is ideal when there is no population at all ;)


--
WBR, ON

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���ண� �६�窠, Bj�rn Felten.
�� ��ᠫ� 13.10.22 1:55:

In 1991, Crimea held a referendum

What part of *proper* referendum, and so on, did you not understand?

Both are proper. But the first one was ignored by Ukraine.

--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
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���ண� �६�窠, Ward Dossche.
�� ��ᠫ� 13.10.22 12:09:

In 2014, in the words of Obama, "Russia was the gas station of Europe". We were not even
supplying gasoline or diesel fuel, but raw materials for production (crude oil) and gas for
the EU's electricity and heat generation facilities. EU was 36% dependent on them, and we
were 51% dependent on revenues from these exports. In this situation it was unclear, who was
on the hook for whom?

Etc etc etc etc ..... Nice cut and paste from somewhere else ... \%/@rd --- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
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���ண� �६�窠, Ward Dossche.
�� ��ᠫ� 13.10.22 12:09:

In 2014, in the words of Obama, "Russia was the gas station of Europe". We were not even
supplying gasoline or diesel fuel, but raw materials for production (crude oil) and gas for
the EU's electricity and heat generation facilities. EU was 36% dependent on them, and we
were 51% dependent on revenues from these exports. In this situation it was unclear, who was
on the hook for whom?

Etc etc etc etc ..... Nice cut and paste from somewhere else ...

Russians say about such people "I did not master it." So you haven't read it. Didn't study it. But you condemn. That's all of you.

--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
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the rest of the world has no right to vote...

Jeezzz. Your brains are washed more heavily than we thought. No, in the civilized world you don't get to vote in other countries than the one where you have citizenship. DUH!

I guess that next you will demand that Russian people must be allowed to vote in the POTUS elections?


--
United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Bj�rn,

a *proper* referendum, nothing like the fake ones Russia is so fond

of, inside as well as

outside of Russia.

In 1991, Crimea held a referendum

What part of *proper* referendum, and so on, did you not understand?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Ukrainian_independence_referendum


On 26 December 1991 the Soviet Union ceased to exist.
So the referendum didn't really matter.

For Life,
Lee

--
Your Hole Is Our Goal

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello, Oleg!

Thursday October 13 2022 15:20, you wrote to Oli:

Don't pull the owl on the globe ;) The referendum was held twice with
93 and 97% of the votes in favor. The remaining 7 and 3% disagree, but

It wasn't a referendum - it was a circus with putin's clowns talking like new nazis.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, Oleg!

Thursday October 13 2022 14:54, you wrote to Bj�rn Felten:

Also in 1991 the USSR held a referendum that asked did people
wish to preserve the USSR. People of Ukraine also supported the
USSR. Which referendum is more honest?

Let me see now. An honest referendum organized by the USSR?
Yeah, that's a tough one... 8-)

So the West does not recognize any ;) only the West is always right,
the rest of the world has no right to vote...

Please stop posting fake information.
Referendum in 1991 was about "new reformed USSR", not about existing USSR.
But since no one cared to reform it - it died.

No one voted for "preserving existing USSR".

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

���ண� �६�窠, Bj�rn Felten.
�� ��ᠫ� 13.10.22 13:51:

Thus, some individuals, for their own benefit, ignored the opinion of the entire population
of the USSR and illegally ruined the country.

So the people of the USSR voted for keeping Ukraine? That doesn't sound like the people of
Ukraine had anything to say about it.

People of USSR voted for keeping USSR. Ignored by Kravchuk (Ukraine), Eltsin (Russia), Shushkevitch (Byelorussia).
People of Crimea voted for autonomy. Ignored by Ukraine.

Sounds like.. it was these citizens who carried out the coup in the USSR. Kravchuk, by the way, recognized this fact 20 years later.
So legally, there is no Ukraine. And Russia and 13 other republics do not exist either, as separate independent states. That's how we live...
And there is no USSR either. Because on the day of the "collapse" of the Union, the United States was extremely welcomed in accordance with their national interests.
So forget about Russia and Ukraine ;)

As we now know - for the money and personal privileges of the United States.

LOL! *We* now know? What *we* are you talking about? What had the USA to gain? It was the
USSR that had a lot to gain from keeping their bread basket for almost a century, Ukraine.

We - is people of USSR.
The USA does not tolerate competition. Especially with a strong opponent. 15 weak countries in a state of chaos is much more profitable than one in perfect order.
Since its foundation, the USSR has lived under the sanctions of the West. The whole century. Sanctions have never been lifted at all, so we are used to it ;)
What kind of Ukraine are we talking about? A small republic became part of the USSR, in which the Polish word "Ukrainian" was present? The Kiev region is everything that Ukraine was before Lenin, whose monuments they destroy with such zeal.

We've already seen, on satellite photos, how Russia has stolen thousands of tons of
Ukrainian wheat and shipped it to Syria and African countries. Maybe the people of Ukraine
voted for this too?

Accused? Get a cookie from Uncle Sam.
Provide evidence. We also see a lot of things (right now). Africa has nothing to eat. We can not feed. If anything, the refugees will go to you, not to us... This is a dilemma for the West, not for Africa.

"Look friends, Uncle Putin comes bearing gifts to those that support our glorious empire! As
long as we control Sevastopol and the Black Sea, we can keep stealing as much as you need,
friends."

Export does not equal theft. Whose Kherson? ;)


--
WBR, ON

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���ண� �६�窠, Bj�rn Felten.
�� ��ᠫ� 13.10.22 18:06:

the rest of the world has no right to vote...

Jeezzz. Your brains are washed more heavily than we thought. No, in the civilized world you
don't get to vote in other countries than the one where you have citizenship. DUH!

Look for a log in your brain. Propaganda has scored hard into the cognitive domain, and there is no end in sight.

I can still understand that you basically don't understand Russian in white, but not to understand English... Do not confuse warm with soft.
What language will you understand? I can offer Chinese, Arabic, Zulu..


--
WBR, ON

��℮� - ���᪠� ᡮઠ HotdogEd
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
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Hello Oleg,

[..]

You understand that NATO and no one else will do this almost never. So why the fuck would NATO want to do this with Ukraine? Yes, because it is convenient to fight with someone else's hands and pour someone else's blood. And Putin will definitely fuck around Britain and the USA, if anything. It's about time.

The original reason for the creation of NATO was defensive - for the containment of Germany. Ditto for the creation of the Warsaw Pact.
No country wanted a return of Nazi Germany, and steps were taken to
prevent that from happening.

However, times have changed. There is no more Warsaw Pact, and NATO
has no Nazi Germany to worry about. So what is the purpose of NATO?
Is it's purpose still defensive, as it claims? Or has it become
something else entirely?

Those are questions that should be asked. But nobody seems willing
to do so. Not honestly.

We all know what Napoleon Bonaparte did.
We all know what Adolf Hitler did.
Only frigid weather stopped France and Germany
from achieving their goals of conquest.

Why should anybody believe NATO's claim of being for defensive
purposes only? If an organization is going to arm a player, isn't
the organization itself also a player?

Finland and Sweden have both formally applied for membership in NATO.
What happens if either are attacked before membership is granted?
There will be war, with allies coming to their aid and assistance.

So does it really matter if Ukraine is, or is not, a member of NATO?

Who is Russia really at war with?

For Life,
Lee

--
Nothing sucks like an Electrolux

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Oleg,

I described the situation theoretically, to compare Russians in

Ukraine and Jews in Palestine

if they appeared in a similar situation. Both living next to their

protectors.

The Arabs and the Jews have been fighting each other since time

immemorial. Ukrainians and

Russians not so much. Jimmy Carter brought Menachim Begin and Anwas

Sadat together. They even

made peace with each other, both winning the Nobel Peace Prize.

A world divided by a 10-meter wall is so-so peaceful. All these Nobel prizes
are disconnected from reality.

Would the world be a better place without the United Nations?
The world thought it had the answer to putting an end to war with
the creation of the League of Nations. We all know how that worked
out. And now the world thinks it has the answer to war with its
creation of the United Nations. And yet war continues, unabated,
in various parts of the world. So what is the answer? What is
the answer for World Peace? Can it be attained? Is it even
possible?

Like HAL 9000. we can dream.

For Life,
Lee

--
If we don't get it / Shut it down!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Oleg,

[..]

In accordance with international law, the status of erusalem is that

of a city which is

illegally occupied by Israel in violaion of the inalienable right of

soverignty of the people

of Palestine.

Okay, where are the 8 packages of sanctions from the United States and the European Union against Israel???

Mail service has been a bit slow these days ...

For Life,
Lee

--
As good as it looks

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Alexander,

Did Putin recognize it? Never heard of it.

Putin has traveled to Israel at least twice, that I know of.
With a sizeable Jewish population in Russia, that would make
sense, as immigration issues would be of importance to both
countries.

Travelling is not recognition in such issues.

It is more than just about immigration, but also the pursuit
of peace in the region. There have been four wars since the end
of WWII, and no peace has yet been found. Despite efforts by
the US, Europe, Russia, and others to bring all sides together.

Imagine the benefits to Russia, the USA, Europe, and to all the
countries of the Middle East if real peace could be found.

A win-win situation for all. Including the Palestinians.

For Life,
Lee

--
Everybody Loves Our Buns

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Oleg,

[..]

Which Jerusalem exactly does the UN have in mind? ;)

Israel has disregarded international law for decades. No surprise there.

It acts more like a

theocracy than a democracy, and the only people who have any rights are

Jewish. Palestinians

are basically stateless, with no real voice to change their situation.

But the UN has been condemning it since 1948, so how come?

Under the 1947 UN Partition Plan, which both the US and Russia
voted in favor, was meant to divide historical Palestine between
Jewish and Arab States, with Jerusalem being granted special
status and placed under international sovereignty and control.

Both Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Arabs rejected the deal.

Despite worldwide condemnation, Israel continues to act as an
apartheid state rather than a respectable member of the international community. Especially in regards to the city of Jerusalem, which is
illegally occupied by Israel in violation of the inalienable right
of sovereigny of the people of Palestine.

Where are the sanctions against Israel?

The General Assembly of the United Nations has been condemning
their actions for decades. But the Security Council keeps vetoing
what the international community wants.

Are they - in the fact that the U.S. supports dual citizenship specifically
with Israel?

And Vatican City. Let's not forget about all those holy priests
and nuns who celebrate by being celibate.

Or in the fact that 160 countries are available to Israelis for visa-free entry? ;)

Apparently there is no need for any Jew to have a visa.

If anything, I can go to Jerusalem to live at any time ;) and it is

within the limits of the

Old City. Some time ago I was living in two countries. But I consider it

my duty now to be

together with Russia.

The Right of Return. Any Jew around the world enjoys the right to live in

Israel and to obtain

Israeli citizenship under Israel's Law of Return. No other country in the

world has such a

rule.

Well, why not? Russia accepts anyone, along with the territory ;)

My grandmother was from Kaliningrad. Does that mean I have a Right
to Return, and get free land?

The USA does not recognize dual citizenship. Except for those who are

from Vatican City and

Israel. Only an act of Congress can grant dual citizenship to others,

such as Arnold

Schwarzenegger, who got his dual citizenship (Austria and USA) by

marrying a Kennedy.

Don't give a damn about the United States from a high bell tower.

Everybody gives a damn about the Kennedys.
Especially the Dead Kennedys.

Steven Segal managed to get dual citizenship by having Vladimir Putin

wave his magic wand and

nobody questioned anything.

In principle, anyone can obtain Russian citizenship. Russians - in a simplified procedure. Moreover, new citizens can obtain land in Russia absolutely free of charge.

Siberia is warming up, with Chinese making it their new home ...

For Life,
Lee

--
Love! Not hate! Makes America great!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Ward,

First Belgian in space, following in Dave Bowman's footsteps.

Frank De Winne was the commander of the ISS plus I worked for Dirk Frimout who was a Space Shuttle astronaut aboard Atlantis..

Ward Dossche. Commander of Artemis' maiden voyage ...

For Life,
Lee

--
Pork: the other white meat

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Alexander,

[..]

In about seven weeks, 1 December 2022, it will be exactly 30 years
since the *Ukrainian* people voted for independence from Russia,
with an overwhelming 96.3% for and 3.7% against. In a *proper*
referendum, nothing like the fake ones Russia is so fond of, inside
as well as outside of Russia.

Also in 1991 the USSR held a referendum that asked did people wish to preserve the USSR. People of Ukraine also supported the USSR. Which referendum is more honest?

On 26 December 1991.
A day that will live in infamy.
The Soviet Union votes itself out of existence.
The only vote that really mattered, and counted.

For Life,
Lee

--
Pay your taxes!

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���ண� �६�窠, Lee Lofaso.
�� ��ᠫ� 13.10.22 18:33:

of, inside as well as

outside of Russia.

In 1991, Crimea held a referendum

What part of *proper* referendum, and so on, did you not understand?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Ukrainian_independence_referendum On 26 December 1991 the
Soviet Union ceased to exist. So the referendum didn't really matter.

Legally, this statement is null and void. And it was decided in a hurry based on the results of the referendum.

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WBR, ON

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Hello, Oleg!

Thursday October 13 2022 22:12, you wrote to Bj�rn Felten:

People of USSR voted for keeping USSR. Ignored by Kravchuk (Ukraine),

They voted for keeping "reformed USSR". But no one ws going to reform it.
So they voted for some dream, for Utopia.

live... And there is no USSR either. Because on the day of the
"collapse" of the Union, the United States was extremely welcomed in accordance with their national interests. So forget about Russia and Ukraine ;)

USA (or just their president) were very upset when USSR collapsed, btw.
It was a nightmare for them - 15 countries with nuclear weapons.

profitable than one in perfect order. Since its foundation, the USSR
has lived under the sanctions of the West. The whole century.

And USSR became so weak that even Fidonet was hi-tech ;) And soviet modems were just expensive crap.
We were in 70s in late 80s.



Best regards,
dp.

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I guess that next you will demand that Russian people must be allowed
to vote in the POTUS elections?

Well, Russians facilitated the election of Trump ...

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First Belgian in space, following in Dave Bowman's footsteps.

Frank De Winne was the commander of the ISS plus I worked for Dirk

Frimout

who was a Space Shuttle astronaut aboard Atlantis..

Ward Dossche. Commander of Artemis' maiden voyage ...

Rather, skipper of the "Dawn Treader"

Plus, there are physical limitations for people that fall into space ...

\%/@rd

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Export does not equal theft.

Amazing. So in just a half dozen or so generations, Russia has genetically gotten rid of any trace of morality?

In the rest of the world, the free (in every respect) world, taking something that does not belong to you is immoral, criminal and is punishable. It *is* called theft.

But to you, in this case, since you "export" the stolen goods, it's absolutely OK? Fascinating. I think there's an opportunity for some serious academic articles about this coming, maybe even Nobel Prize winning stuff.

Just one question, not really related to the thieving Russian thugs: With all that land that Russia already has, why waste so much of what little resources you have, on conquering a few small countries that only want democracy out of the grips from the neo-Stalinist Putinism? And how come so many Russians actually have accepted this?

After all, the era of a comfy sofa, a bottle of vodka and an old TV set brimming with happy news of the Russian Army's Victorious battles is now gone forever. Those men that refused to accept that *they* could be going to war, now tries to leave their glorious Putinist country by the hundreds of thousands.

Fucking cowards! Learn from what happened when Ukraine welcomed the Russian that emigrated. Let the borders be closed to them all.


--
United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

..

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Hello, Bj�rn!

Friday October 14 2022 01:10, you wrote to Oleg Nazaroff:

Amazing. So in just a half dozen or so generations, Russia has genetically gotten rid of any trace of morality?

It's not Russia, we still have a lot of people who are angry very much because they don't support Putin's wars, but they are very scared.
Putin is not Russia and even Oleg is not Russia ;)

Just one question, not really related to the thieving Russian
thugs: With all that land that Russia already has, why waste so much
of what little resources you have, on conquering a few small countries that only want democracy out of the grips from the neo-Stalinist
Putinism? And how come so many Russians actually have accepted this?

Many Russians are in fact brainwashed and they are very unhappy because they are poor. And they are trying to blame West for their problems.
I still think that only about ~40% are pro war. Most of them are old guys, who are not going to join the army.

For them this war is just a football match, when you can just sit on your sofa, drink beer and watch TV. Like Oleg is doing.


Best regards,
dp.

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