I posted this message on a local board but it really needed to be posted here I think, so...

Many Sysops are wondering why there is not more users connecting to their BBS's and staying around for a while. Here's why I think people are not hanging around:

I've been on several BBS recently and they have a very strick timeout, maybe 2 minutes so you really can't 'hangout' on a BBS when there is not enough time to go get a cup of coffee or research something on the internet and switch back over to the BBS. The other day I switched screens to spellcheck something and when I came back the BBS had kicked me off.

That timeout is what kills people, well me anyhow, from hanging around to be available to chat etc.

Now that most people use telnet, etc to connect, what is the purpose of such short timeouts?

Every BBS that I logon to, I always check to see who else is online and the only one I ever see is _maybe_ the Sysop - usually 10 nodes setting there idol...

Sysops, I suggest if you want a timeout at all, put a 30 minute or hour timeout, then watch to see if anything bad happens. Adjust as necessary.

Thoughts?

Cheers,
Dennis
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Dennis Scott to All on Sun Mar 19 2023 07:20 am

Sysops, I suggest if you want a timeout at all, put a 30 minute or hour timeout, then watch to see if anything bad happens. Adjust as necessary.

One tip: on a Synchronet BBS, if you plan to idle for a while, hit Ctrl-P (the global hotkey for the private message prompt), at which you can idle for as long as your time-per-day/call will allow.
--
digital man (rob)

This Is Spinal Tap quote #25:
Viv Savage: Have... a good... time... all the time. That's my philosophy. Norco, CA WX: 50.9øF, 96.0% humidity, 0 mph ESE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

To: Dennis Scott
Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Dennis Scott to All on Sun Mar 19 2023 07:20 am

I posted this message on a local board but it really needed to be posted here I think, so...

Many Sysops are wondering why there is not more users connecting to their BBS's and staying around for a while. Here's why I think people are not hanging around:

I've been on several BBS recently and they have a very strick timeout, maybe 2 minutes so you really can't 'hangout' on a BBS when there is not enough time to go get a cup of coffee or research something on the internet and switch back over to the BBS. The other day I switched screens to spellcheck something and when I came back the BBS had kicked me off.

i've been told quite angrily that there is not a deficit of users and it's only me that has that issue. They are of course, delusional.

i agree that these short timeouts on bbses are annoying, but there's just been a huge slump in bbs users for 3 or more years. there's just other things to do out there that are more fun.

you can always contact the software developers to change the default timeout settings. it's also usually selectable in each bbs's setup.

with synchronet bbs you can hit ctrl+p and bring up a little menu and that will stop you from getting kicked.
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

i've been told quite angrily that there is not a deficit of users and
it's only me that has that issue. They are of course, delusional.

I discovered BBSes around 2019/2020 and I'm still here. Considering age and time when BBSes had prime time, I'm a newbie, but stubborn to stay.

I see new people coming in or who came around the same time as me. I discovered BBSes to be still a living thing thanks to the YT documentaries.
They did great job to help raise awareness.

But there is learning curve. Timeouts can be annoying and a blocker but not that much as general lazyness of people who are not expecting that this is like coming back to unix shell times when they started with IRC, just every board is a custom command and ansi design system, instead of posix.

I've learnt all that to help me navigate easily and find differences between Synchronet and Mystic, Enigma, CNET or other.. but it was a bit of a challenge at the beginning.

i agree that these short timeouts on bbses are annoying, but there's
just been a huge slump in bbs users for 3 or more years. there's just other things to do out there that are more fun.

And that where the trick is, showing people where they are what BBS is in an attractive way and you may discover more nerds like me who get curious enough to at least try.

Nobody is delusional that BBS can become mainstream in online communication. But it comes with an amazing blast from the past moment for everybody born up until 1985 I'd say.. the rest is unfortunately, more a Facebook generation and lost to this medium.

-h1

... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a copy.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1:105/420)

Hello Dennis,

19 Mar 23 07:20, you wrote to All:

I posted this message on a local board but it really needed to be
posted here I think, so...

Many Sysops are wondering why there is not more users connecting to
their BBS's and staying around for a while. Here's why I think people
are not hanging around:

I've been on several BBS recently and they have a very strick timeout, maybe 2 minutes so you really can't 'hangout' on a BBS when there is
not enough time to go get a cup of coffee or research something on the internet and switch back over to the BBS. The other day I switched
screens to spellcheck something and when I came back the BBS had
kicked me off.

That timeout is what kills people, well me anyhow, from hanging around
to be available to chat etc.

Now that most people use telnet, etc to connect, what is the purpose
of such short timeouts?

Every BBS that I logon to, I always check to see who else is online
and the only one I ever see is _maybe_ the Sysop - usually 10 nodes setting there idol...

Sysops, I suggest if you want a timeout at all, put a 30 minute or
hour timeout, then watch to see if anything bad happens. Adjust as necessary.

Thoughts?

good point! i've reconfigured my bbs :)

Regards,
--
dp

telnet://bbs.roonsbbs.hu:1212 <<=-

... 8:58pm up 5 days, 10:27:58, load: 73 processes, 274 threads.
--- GoldED/2 1.1.4.7+EMX
* Origin: Roon's BBS - Budapest, HUNGARY (2:371/52)

Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Daniel Path to Dennis Scott on Sun Apr 02 2023 08:19 pm

Good man. I think all BBSs should increase the timeout or eliminate it all together at this point in time.

Doing the Control-P trick works but why have to do that? There's plenty of bandwidth and nodes to go around most of the time...

Cheers,
Dennis
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Dennis Scott to Daniel Path on Tue Apr 04 2023 06:16 am

Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Daniel Path to Dennis Scott on Sun Apr 02 2023 08:19 pm

Good man. I think all BBSs should increase the timeout or eliminate it all together at this point in time.

Doing the Control-P trick works but why have to do that? There's plenty of bandwidth and nodes to go around most of the time...

Nodes are a finite resource. Sysops don't want their systems to be subject to very simple "denial of service" attacks by users either accidentally or purposefully just "walking away from the keyboard" once connected and tying up all their nodes.
--
digital man (rob)

Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #54:
NAPLPS = North American Presentation Layer Protocol Syntax (ANSI X3.110)
Norco, CA WX: 48.8øF, 43.0% humidity, 0 mph ESE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

To: Dennis Scott
Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Dennis Scott to Daniel Path on Tue Apr 04 2023 06:16 am

Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Daniel Path to Dennis Scott on Sun Apr 02 2023 08:19 pm

Good man. I think all BBSs should increase the timeout or eliminate it all together at this point in time.

Doing the Control-P trick works but why have to do that? There's plenty of bandwidth and nodes to go around most of the time...

i dont want people farting around doing nothing. they can call back.
it's not like it's hard to logon.
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

To: Rob Swindell
Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Rob Swindell to Dennis Scott on Tue Apr 04 2023 09:56 am

Nodes are a finite resource. Sysops don't want their systems to be subject to very simple "denial of service" attacks by users either accidentally or purposefully just "walking away from the keyboard" once connected and tying up all their nodes.

on datastream which was a very popular gaming bbs, i had some games rigged to not kick the user due to running out of time.

these people would rot on there for many, many hours.
some of them were using tradewars trainer programs and that screwed up.

i think a 5 min inactivity time out is decent.
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Jas Hud to Rob Swindell on Tue Apr 04 2023 04:39 pm

To: Rob Swindell
Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Rob Swindell to Dennis Scott on Tue Apr 04 2023 09:56 am

Nodes are a finite resource. Sysops don't want their systems to be subject to very simple "denial of service" attacks by users either accidentally or purposefully just "walking away from the keyboard" once connected and tying up all their nodes.

on datastream which was a very popular gaming bbs, i had some games rigged to not kick the user due to running out of time.

these people would rot on there for many, many hours.
some of them were using tradewars trainer programs and that screwed up.

i think a 5 min inactivity time out is decent.

I think in that example (e.g. a TradeWars trainer/bot running amock), a total timeout is good to enforce too. A bot can keep a node active, but not doing anything "useful" for a really long time.
--
digital man (rob)

Sling Blade quote #4:
Doyle: wimpy-ass kids or mental retards.. she got one of each livin' with her. Norco, CA WX: 60.7øF, 26.0% humidity, 6 mph SSW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Rob Swindell to Dennis Scott on Tue Apr 04 2023 09:56 am

to very simple "denial of service" attacks by users either accidentally or purposefully just "walking away from the keyboard" once connected and tying up all their nodes.

DOS attacks are a real threat but that really should be handled on the front end of the BBS or at the firewall, I would hope anyhow.

When are you coming out with your 100 node version Rob?

Cheers,
Dennis
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Dennis Scott to Rob Swindell on Thu Apr 06 2023 03:37 pm

Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Rob Swindell to Dennis Scott on Tue Apr 04 2023 09:56 am

to very simple "denial of service" attacks by users either accidentally or purposefully just "walking away from the keyboard" once connected and tying up all their nodes.

DOS attacks are a real threat but that really should be handled on the front end of the BBS or at the firewall, I would hope anyhow.

I was referring to a different kind of DOS "attack". If the sysop wants to suppoort n-users connecting, authenticating, and then walking away from their keyboards, that sysop would need n-nodes on the BBS. Luckily a node is just another and some config files these days (not an additional phone line or computer), but still, it's a *finite* resource.

When are you coming out with your 100 node version Rob?

Current versions of Synchronet support up to 250 nodes. Realistically, nobody configures anywhere near that many nodes mainly because configuring door games to support dozens of nodes (for many multinode doors, anyway), is a big hassle. It's much easier to just enforce a maximum duration of user inactivity and keep the number of configured nodes to some a number you'd reasonably expect to need for *active* user connections.
--
digital man (rob)

Breaking Bad quote #8:
I want Shania Twain to give me a tuggy. Guess what? That ain't happening either Norco, CA WX: 72.3øF, 22.0% humidity, 14 mph ESE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Rob Swindell to Dennis Scott on Thu Apr 06 2023 05:01 pm

Current versions of Synchronet support up to 250 nodes. Realistically, nobody configures anywhere near that many nodes mainly because configuring door games to support dozens of nodes (for many multinode doors, anyway), is a big hassle. It's much easier to just enforce a maximum duration of user inactivity and keep the number of configured nodes to some a number you'd reasonably expect to need for *active* user connections.

Is it realistic to have the BBS software dynamically open and close nodes as necessary, similiar to the way that Apache does? If so, a Sysop could assign say 5 nodes or so for doors and the rest of the nodes be dynamic if necessary.

What if there was a way for each Sysop to have an income from their BBS? Maybe not getting rich but paying for their equipment and bandwidth, etc. I think there is a way to do it and still keep the BBS system that's been around for decades.

Cheers,
Dennis
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Dennis Scott to Rob Swindell on Sat Apr 08 2023 06:57 pm

Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Rob Swindell to Dennis Scott on Thu Apr 06 2023 05:01 pm

Current versions of Synchronet support up to 250 nodes. Realistically, nobody configures anywhere near that many nodes mainly because configuring door games to support dozens of nodes (for many multinode doors, anyway), is a big hassle. It's much easier to just enforce a maximum duration of user inactivity and keep the number of configured nodes to some a number you'd reasonably expect to need for *active* user connections.

Is it realistic to have the BBS software dynamically open and close nodes as necessary, similiar to the way that Apache does?

Apache web server? It doesn't have the concept of "nodes" or "door games".

If so, a Sysop could assign
say 5 nodes or so for doors and the rest of the nodes be dynamic if necessary.

Oh, I suppose anything's possible. But it's most mult-user BBSes are designed in a way that when a user connects, they're assigned an "open node" and have exclusive use of that node until they disconnect/log-off and at that time the node is "closed".

What if there was a way for each Sysop to have an income from their BBS? Maybe not getting rich but paying for their equipment and bandwidth, etc. I think there is a way to do it and still keep the BBS system that's been around for decades.

You mean if something like paypal existed? It does. And sysops could require payment for access if they wanted to. I don't understand your point.
--
digital man (rob)

Synchronet "Real Fact" #13:
Synchronet was the first BBS software to ship with internal QWK networking Norco, CA WX: 61.9øF, 72.0% humidity, 3 mph SSE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

To: Dennis Scott
Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Dennis Scott to Rob Swindell on Sat Apr 08 2023 06:57 pm

doors, anyway), is a big hassle. It's much easier to just enforce a maximum duration of user inactivity and keep the number of configured nodes to some a number you'd reasonably expect to need for *active* user connections.

Is it realistic to have the BBS software dynamically open and close nodes as necessary, similiar to the way that Apache does? If so, a Sysop could assign say 5 nodes or so for doors and the rest of the nodes be dynamic if necessary.

have you tried out synchronet? the way it handles nodes is just right.

What if there was a way for each Sysop to have an income from their BBS? Maybe not getting rich but paying for their equipment and bandwidth, etc. I think there is a way to do it and still keep the BBS system that's been around for decades.

not only can we not get people to pay for subscriptions for our bbses, over the years i have seen systems that were not successful in doing cash prizes and other gifts to get users to call.
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Many Sysops are wondering why there is not more users connecting to their BBS's and staying around for a while. Here's why I think people are not hanging around:

I've been on several BBS recently and they have a very strick timeout,
maybe 2 minutes so you really can't 'hangout' on a BBS when there
is not enough time to go get a cup of coffee or research something
on the internet and switch back over to the BBS. The other day I
switched screens to spellcheck something and when I came back the BBS
had kicked me off.

Use netrunner. It sends NOOPs on a regular basis and generally doesn't disconnect.

---
Shurato, Sysop Shurato's Heavenly Sphere (telnet, pop3, ftp, nntp)
(ports 23, 110, 21, 119) shsbbs.ddns.net (shoutcast at 8000)


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
---
* Origin: Shurato's Heavenly Sphere shsbbs.ddns.net (1:340/1101)

Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Rob Swindell to Dennis Scott on Sat Apr 08 2023 07:14 pm

What if there was a way for each Sysop to have an income from their BBS? Maybe not getting rich but paying for their equipment and bandwidth, etc. I think there is a way to do it and still keep the BBS system that's been around for decades.

You mean if something like paypal existed? It does. And sysops could require payment for access if they wanted to. I don't understand your point.

No, not at all. What if each BBS all over the world was connected in real time in a distributed fashion. Think data center where there are many computers sharing a load, like Twitter and/or Facebook. On this new style BBS system, there could be everything just like it is now but there also could be a section similiar to Facebook Marketplace that charges customers a tiny fee per completed transaction or charges the seller a small fee to post the item. That fee would be distributed mainly to the BBS that hosted the transaction but a small part of it goes to the developer (Rob) for development costs. Say a user connects into the system, the system detects his/her physical location and instantly routes the "call" to the most local BBS. The user can do all the things that the user normally does but there is at least one new thing and that is the Marketplace.

Now you know why I was asking about dynamic nodes. To work, this system would need to be able to adapt to the load.

This new BBS system would not affect the currect BBS system at all. All of the BBSs running on old equipment would continue as normal but if a Sysop decides to be part of the new BBS system, they could, but there would some specific hardware and software requirements.

In the old, big days of BBS's, a couple guys thought outside the box. They developed Twitter and Facebook. What I'm talking about doing is thinking outside the box again... Craigslist is a little similiar concept except it's not centralized and it's not realtime not to mention that they don't do anything but facilitate selling and buying.

I wonder how many people told all those guys that it couldn't be done or wouldn't work? They're billionaires now.

Cheers,
Dennis
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Jas Hud to Dennis Scott on Sat Apr 08 2023 09:17 pm

not only can we not get people to pay for subscriptions for our bbses, over the years i have seen systems that were not successful in doing cash prizes and other gifts to get users to call.

Jas,

See my next message... no one is talking about a fee to use a BBS - never. But what if you as a Sysop used your computer pretty much as you do now but made a little money each month? All you would need to do is insure that the computer is up and running properly, that you pay your utility bills each month. Pretty much like you already do...

Cheers,
Dennis
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Dennis Scott wrote to Rob Swindell <=-

No, not at all. What if each BBS all over the world was connected
in real time in a distributed fashion. Think data center where
there are many computers sharing a load, like Twitter and/or
Facebook. On this new style BBS system, there could be everything
just like it is now but there also could be a section similiar to
Facebook Marketplace that charges customers a tiny fee per
completed transaction or charges the seller a small fee to post
the item. That fee would be distributed mainly to the BBS that
hosted the transaction but a small part of it goes to the
developer (Rob) for development costs. Say a user connects into
the system, the system detects his/her physical location and
instantly routes the "call" to the most local BBS. The user can
do all the things that the user normally does but there is at
least one new thing and that is the Marketplace.

Now you know why I was asking about dynamic nodes. To work, this
system would need to be able to adapt to the load.

This new BBS system would not affect the currect BBS system at
all. All of the BBSs running on old equipment would continue as
normal but if a Sysop decides to be part of the new BBS system,
they could, but there would some specific hardware and software requirements.

So, you're advocating for us all to be "assimilated by the Borg"...

That's a hard "I'll pass" from me.



... Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

On 09 Apr 23 04:39:51, Dennis Scott said the following to Jas Hud:

See my next message... no one is talking about a fee to use a BBS - never. what if you as a Sysop used your computer pretty much as you do now but mad little money each month? All you would need to do is insure that the comput is up and running properly, that you pay your utility bills each month. Pre much like you already do...

Jee-zuz. What are you smoking...

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Dennis Scott wrote to Rob Swindell <=-

No, not at all. What if each BBS all over the world was connected in
real time in a distributed fashion.

That sounds like echicken's "Center of Awareness" from a couple of
years ago. BBSes shared user information and messages in real time.

Sysops freaked out about sharing user info, but I liked the
telegram-like feel of it. Messaging had gone from multiple day
round-trips with dial-up star/backbone systems to real-time.


... Walk without rhythm and you won't attact the worm.
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

Dennis Scott wrote to Jas Hud <=-

See my next message... no one is talking about a fee to use a BBS -
never. But what if you as a Sysop used your computer pretty much as you
do now but made a little money each month? All you would need to do is insure that the computer is up and running properly, that you pay your utility bills each month. Pretty much like you already do...

Jaron Lanier has some interesting ideas regarding the net and social
networks, some could map to BBSes.

He notes the disparity between the web 2.0 site creators and content
creators. For years tha banks, venture capitalists and a few founders
got rich on web 2.0, but the people creating the content received
nothing.

He's a firm believer that content should be paid for, and envisioned a micropayment system. Imagine if you saw that cat meme and could pay the
creator a fraction of a cent, then multiply that by the number of people
who see it. Suddenly, you've got a new economy.

If I had a way to transfer micropayments to sysops and artists, I'd
certainly use it.



... Don't give Chad a big neural network
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

To: Dennis Scott
Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Dennis Scott to Jas Hud on Sun Apr 09 2023 04:39 am

See my next message... no one is talking about a fee to use a BBS - never. But what if you as a Sysop used your computer pretty much as you do now but made a little money each month? All you would need to do is insure that the computer is up and running properly, that you pay your utility bills each month. Pretty much like you already do...

i don't want that and i don't want what you described in your msg.
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

To: Kurt Weiske
Re: Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Kurt Weiske to Dennis Scott on Sun Apr 09 2023 07:47 am

Sysops freaked out about sharing user info, but I liked the
telegram-like feel of it. Messaging had gone from multiple day
round-trips with dial-up star/backbone systems to real-time.

people didn't need that and didn't want it.
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Rob Swindell wrote to Dennis Scott <=-

Current versions of Synchronet support up to 250 nodes. Realistically, nobody configures anywhere near that many nodes mainly because
configuring door games to support dozens of nodes (for many multinode doors, anyway), is a big hassle. It's much easier to just enforce a maximum duration of user inactivity and keep the number of configured nodes to some a number you'd reasonably expect to need for *active*
user connections.

For decades, I've always configured my BBS for four nodes with doors, et cetera. Most of my callers are pulling mail pakcets or grabbing files
anyway. MBSE supports unlimited nodes but that's only for bots calling...

-- Sean

... Any simple theory will be worded in the most complicated way.
--- MMail/FreeBSD
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

Dennis Scott wrote to Rob Swindell <=-

What if there was a way for each Sysop to have an income from their
BBS? Maybe not getting rich but paying for their equipment and
bandwidth, etc. I think there is a way to do it and still keep the BBS system that's been around for decades.

You obviously have never tried to make money from a BBS...it was cool in the 90s but BBSing is a small niche hobby these days.

-- Sean

... Press <Ctrl-Alt-Del> now to access the pirate software.
--- MMail/FreeBSD
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

Jas Hud wrote to Dennis Scott <=-

not only can we not get people to pay for subscriptions for our bbses, over the years i have seen systems that were not successful in doing
cash prizes and other gifts to get users to call.

Like how nearly every MBBS system in the 90s charged a subscription because
the software was so expensive?

-- Sean

... Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
--- MMail/FreeBSD
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

Martin Kazmaier wrote to Dennis Scott <=-

Use netrunner. It sends NOOPs on a regular basis and generally doesn't disconnect.

If I catch anyone doing that on my system, I'll ban them. Either you're actively using my system or you're a damn bot.

-- Sean

... "The way to Hell is plastered with good resolutions." - German proverb
--- MMail/FreeBSD
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

Dennis Scott wrote to Rob Swindell <=-

No, not at all. What if each BBS all over the world was connected in
real time in a distributed fashion.

That's called the Internet.

If I wanted my BBS to do that, I'd set up a website with forum
software...

-- Sean

... We are born naked, wet, and hungry. Then things get worse.
--- MMail/FreeBSD
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

Dan Clough wrote to Dennis Scott <=-

So, you're advocating for us all to be "assimilated by the Borg"...

That's a hard "I'll pass" from me.

Every five years or so, a new sysop brings this topic up and my answer is
the same every time.

-- Sean

... Failure is a measurement that depends on the standard applied.
--- MMail/FreeBSD
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

Nick Andre wrote to Dennis Scott <=-

Jee-zuz. What are you smoking...

As I said to Dan, every five years, a new sysop floats this very same idea
and all of the experienced sysops' answers are always the same...

-- Sean


... You're only young once. How long that once lasts is the question.
--- MMail/FreeBSD
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

Kurt Weiske wrote to Dennis Scott <=-

Sysops freaked out about sharing user info, but I liked the
telegram-like feel of it. Messaging had gone from multiple day
round-trips with dial-up star/backbone systems to real-time.

Why not just use Telegram and leave the middleman out of it?

-- Sean


... A good memory does not equal pale ink.
--- MMail/FreeBSD
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

Kurt Weiske wrote to Dennis Scott <=-

If I had a way to transfer micropayments to sysops and artists, I'd certainly use it.

You've never heard of Flattr?

-- Sean


... "The years teach what the days never know." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
--- MMail/FreeBSD
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

On 09 Apr 23 20:18:38, Sean Dennis said the following to Jas Hud:

not only can we not get people to pay for subscriptions for our bbses, over the years i have seen systems that were not successful in doing cash prizes and other gifts to get users to call.

Like how nearly every MBBS system in the 90s charged a subscription because the software was so expensive?

This is true.. If you bought either MBBS or TBBS it was an investment that
you wanted recouped. I never once saw a totally "free" one of those systems until much later, when the novelty wore off.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

On 09 Apr 23 20:25:19, Sean Dennis said the following to Nick Andre:

Jee-zuz. What are you smoking...

As I said to Dan, every five years, a new sysop floats this very same idea and all of the experienced sysops' answers are always the same...

And the idea is always touted as original, never thought of before even as
it always revolves around Internet stupidity. And of course you are not
"open minded" for not entertaining the stupidity.

And that new Sysop usually vanishes a few months later. Usually with no notice to his Echomail hub either.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Nick Andre wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

not only can we not get people to pay for subscriptions for our

bbses,

over the years i have seen systems that were not successful in doing cash prizes and other gifts to get users to call.

Like how nearly every MBBS system in the 90s charged a subscription

because

the software was so expensive?

This is true.. If you bought either MBBS or TBBS it was an
investment that you wanted recouped. I never once saw a totally
"free" one of those systems until much later, when the novelty
wore off.

Do you recall how much it was back then? I ran a purchased/registered
copy of PCBoard back in the 90's, and I think it was either $125 or
$150, which was a significant cost for me back then. Also registered InterMail/InterEcho. Didn't have any subscription fees, although I did
grant higher access levels for those who wanted to donate or register a
door or something. I was surprised at how many actually did want to
do that.


... Then, suddenly and embarrassingly, my swash came unbuckled.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

To: Sean Dennis
Re: Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Sean Dennis to Jas Hud on Sun Apr 09 2023 08:18 pm

Jas Hud wrote to Dennis Scott <=-

not only can we not get people to pay for subscriptions for our bbses, over the years i have seen systems that were not successful in doing cash prizes and other gifts to get users to call.

Like how nearly every MBBS system in the 90s charged a subscription because the software was so expensive?

well when i was writing that i'm talking about the telnet age, not dialup age.

during the dialup years, i did subscribe to some of those and it was because they provided internet access when it was crummy in my area.
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

To: Sean Dennis
Re: Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Sean Dennis to Kurt Weiske on Sun Apr 09 2023 08:27 pm

Kurt Weiske wrote to Dennis Scott <=-

Sysops freaked out about sharing user info, but I liked the
telegram-like feel of it. Messaging had gone from multiple day
round-trips with dial-up star/backbone systems to real-time.

Why not just use Telegram and leave the middleman out of it?

he used a bad example. what it was, was the boards all had their data files linked. so same doorgames, msg areas, user files, etc.
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

On 10 Apr 23 07:31:00, Dan Clough said the following to Nick Andre:

This is true.. If you bought either MBBS or TBBS it was an
investment that you wanted recouped. I never once saw a totally
"free" one of those systems until much later, when the novelty
wore off.

Do you recall how much it was back then? I ran a purchased/registered copy of PCBoard back in the 90's, and I think it was either $125 or
$150, which was a significant cost for me back then. Also registered

I can't remember exactly. I keep thinking MajorBBS was at least a few hundred and they upsold you on the "Galaticboard" serial card which was another couple hundred bucks.

Same with TBBS... You bought the license but needed the serial board for anything beyond 2 nodes. Then Fidonet was an add-on. Remote access was an add-on... I mean, any BBS that came with a freaking VHS installation video you just knew was going to be a bit out of your league.

https://archive.org/details/1993-bbs-tbbstape

To be fair TBBS was absolutely fascinating. You could get your hands on a pirate copy but it was absolutely useless without the printed manual. It was "the mother" of all Rube Goldberg lets-make-it-freaking-complicated contraptions. But when you really began to understand why it did things the way it did... it actually made sense. The manuals were very professional.

I was a huge fan and wrote some crude textfile-utils for John Souvestre's
hub system in the 90's. It seemed like him and many TBBS Sysops jumped ship and started their own ISP businesses when the author invented a router appliance and began pitching the Internet as the future.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Nick Andre wrote to Dan Clough <=-

On 10 Apr 23 07:31:00, Dan Clough said the following to Nick
Andre:

This is true.. If you bought either MBBS or TBBS it was an
investment that you wanted recouped. I never once saw a totally "free" one of those systems until much later, when the novelty
wore off.

Do you recall how much it was back then? I ran a purchased/registered copy of PCBoard back in the 90's, and I think it was either $125 or
$150, which was a significant cost for me back then. Also registered

I can't remember exactly. I keep thinking MajorBBS was at least a
few hundred and they upsold you on the "Galaticboard" serial card
which was another couple hundred bucks.

Same with TBBS... You bought the license but needed the serial
board for anything beyond 2 nodes. Then Fidonet was an add-on.
Remote access was an add-on... I mean, any BBS that came with a
freaking VHS installation video you just knew was going to be a
bit out of your league.

https://archive.org/details/1993-bbs-tbbstape

Wow. How cool is that. I watched the whole video... Hahaha, the professionalism of the presentation is awesome. What a different time!

To be fair TBBS was absolutely fascinating. You could get your
hands on a pirate copy but it was absolutely useless without the
printed manual. It was "the mother" of all Rube Goldberg lets-make-it-freaking-complicated contraptions. But when you
really began to understand why it did things the way it did... it
actually made sense. The manuals were very professional.

I just downloaded it from an "abandonware" site, two 1.44 floppy images, probably no manual in there. Might give it a look sometime... :-)

I was a huge fan and wrote some crude textfile-utils for John
Souvestre's hub system in the 90's. It seemed like him and many
TBBS Sysops jumped ship and started their own ISP businesses when
the author invented a router appliance and began pitching the
Internet as the future.

Yep, the entire BBS world (dialup, anyway) took a nosedive around 1996
or so, going from memory. I ran mine then from 93-96 (Fido 1:115/321),
and had to move away (active duty Navy at the time). Didn't get things re-started until 2018... ;-)

Thanks for the flashback!


... As a matter of fact, it IS a banana in my pocket.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Re: Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Dan Clough to Nick Andre on Mon Apr 10 2023 12:12 pm

Nick Andre wrote to Dan Clough <=-

On 10 Apr 23 07:31:00, Dan Clough said the following to Nick
Andre:

This is true.. If you bought either MBBS or TBBS it was an investment that you wanted recouped. I never once saw a totally "free" one of those systems until much later, when the novelty wore off.

Do you recall how much it was back then? I ran a purchased/registered copy of PCBoard back in the 90's, and I think it was either $125 or $150, which was a significant cost for me back then. Also registered

I can't remember exactly. I keep thinking MajorBBS was at least a
few hundred and they upsold you on the "Galaticboard" serial card
which was another couple hundred bucks.

Same with TBBS... You bought the license but needed the serial
board for anything beyond 2 nodes. Then Fidonet was an add-on.
Remote access was an add-on... I mean, any BBS that came with a freaking VHS installation video you just knew was going to be a
bit out of your league.

https://archive.org/details/1993-bbs-tbbstape

Wow. How cool is that. I watched the whole video... Hahaha, the professionalism of the presentation is awesome. What a different time!

I actually started to create a similar video for Synchronet sysops around 1994 (I thought it was an original idea) and had the video camera for (screen capture/recording wasn't really a thing yet), high-end duplication quality SVHS VCR, script, etc, but never really got around to finishing it before the sales started to obviously slow down in 1995. Wish I had finished it. :-(
--
digital man (rob)

Synchronet "Real Fact" #9:
The name "DOVE-Net" comes from: The Beast's DOmain / VErtrauen network
Norco, CA WX: 71.2øF, 64.0% humidity, 4 mph SSE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Rob Swindell wrote to Dan Clough <=-

Re: Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Dan Clough to Nick Andre on Mon Apr 10 2023 12:12 pm

Same with TBBS... You bought the license but needed the serial
board for anything beyond 2 nodes. Then Fidonet was an add-on.
Remote access was an add-on... I mean, any BBS that came with a freaking VHS installation video you just knew was going to be a
bit out of your league.

https://archive.org/details/1993-bbs-tbbstape

Wow. How cool is that. I watched the whole video... Hahaha, the professionalism of the presentation is awesome. What a different time!

I actually started to create a similar video for Synchronet
sysops around 1994 (I thought it was an original idea) and had
the video camera for (screen capture/recording wasn't really a
thing yet), high-end duplication quality SVHS VCR, script, etc,
but never really got around to finishing it before the sales
started to obviously slow down in 1995. Wish I had finished it.
:-(

Too bad, would have liked to have seen it. If you have even a start of
it, maybe convert if possible and upload to the YouTube channel?

Might look good next to the Blimp video. :-)


... "He who is without oil, shall cast the first rod."-Compressions 8.7:1.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Re: Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Dan Clough to Rob Swindell on Mon Apr 10 2023 01:55 pm

Rob Swindell wrote to Dan Clough <=-

Re: Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Dan Clough to Nick Andre on Mon Apr 10 2023 12:12 pm

Same with TBBS... You bought the license but needed the serial
board for anything beyond 2 nodes. Then Fidonet was an add-on. Remote access was an add-on... I mean, any BBS that came with a freaking VHS installation video you just knew was going to be a
bit out of your league.

https://archive.org/details/1993-bbs-tbbstape

Wow. How cool is that. I watched the whole video... Hahaha, the professionalism of the presentation is awesome. What a different time!

I actually started to create a similar video for Synchronet
sysops around 1994 (I thought it was an original idea) and had
the video camera for (screen capture/recording wasn't really a
thing yet), high-end duplication quality SVHS VCR, script, etc,
but never really got around to finishing it before the sales
started to obviously slow down in 1995. Wish I had finished it.
:-(

Too bad, would have liked to have seen it. If you have even a start of
it, maybe convert if possible and upload to the YouTube channel?

I would for sure, if I had it.

Might look good next to the Blimp video. :-)

It would, but unfortunately, not likely to happen. I started the project on SVHS and returned the (expensive) recorder when it was clear I wasn't going to complete it and I have no idea what became of that/those SVHS tapes. I did some old VHS tape restoration/digitization a few years ago and did not come across any tapes that looked like they had potential to be that project (e.g. non were SVHS). But if I ever do, I'll be sure to digitize it/them...
--
digital man (rob)

Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #70:
SEXYZ = Synchronet External X/Y/ZMODEM file transfer protocol driver
Norco, CA WX: 76.2øF, 55.0% humidity, 4 mph SSW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Rob Swindell wrote to Dan Clough <=-

https://archive.org/details/1993-bbs-tbbstape

Wow. How cool is that. I watched the whole video... Hahaha, the professionalism of the presentation is awesome. What a different time!

I actually started to create a similar video for Synchronet
sysops around 1994 (I thought it was an original idea) and had
the video camera for (screen capture/recording wasn't really a
thing yet), high-end duplication quality SVHS VCR, script, etc,
but never really got around to finishing it before the sales
started to obviously slow down in 1995. Wish I had finished it.
:-(

Too bad, would have liked to have seen it. If you have even a start of
it, maybe convert if possible and upload to the YouTube channel?

I would for sure, if I had it.

Might look good next to the Blimp video. :-)

It would, but unfortunately, not likely to happen. I started the
project on SVHS and returned the (expensive) recorder when it was
clear I wasn't going to complete it and I have no idea what
became of that/those SVHS tapes. I did some old VHS tape restoration/digitization a few years ago and did not come across
any tapes that looked like they had potential to be that project
(e.g. non were SVHS). But if I ever do, I'll be sure to digitize it/them...

Sounds good. At least you've got a series started for the new v3.20
stuff, which is excellent, and some earlier stuff. Hope you keep that
going!



... I was wondering why the baseball was getting bigger. Then it hit me.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Do you recall how much it was back then? I ran a purchased/registered copy of PCBoard back in the 90's, and I think it was either $125 or
$150, which was a significant cost for me back then. Also registered InterMail/InterEcho. Didn't have any subscription fees, although I did grant higher access levels for those who wanted to donate or register a door or something. I was surprised at how many actually did want to
do that.

I remember sending JoHo an international money order for $250 for FrontDoor 2.20 (which a few months later became 2.3x -- FREE thank God. <G>) GEcho was $35, ALLFIX was $40ish ... $15/mo for a FidoNet feed ... all the countless doors ... yeah I remember. :)

... What if there were no hypothetical situations?

--- Renegade v1.31/Exp
* Origin: The Titantic BBS Telnet - ttb.rgbbs.info (1:129/305)

T.J. Mcmillen wrote to Dan Clough <=-

Do you recall how much it was back then? I ran a purchased/registered copy of PCBoard back in the 90's, and I think it was either $125 or
$150, which was a significant cost for me back then. Also registered InterMail/InterEcho. Didn't have any subscription fees, although I did grant higher access levels for those who wanted to donate or register a door or something. I was surprised at how many actually did want to
do that.

I remember sending JoHo an international money order for $250 for FrontDoor 2.20 (which a few months later became 2.3x -- FREE
thank God. <G>) GEcho was $35, ALLFIX was $40ish ... $15/mo for
a FidoNet feed ... all the countless doors ... yeah I remember.
:)

Hehe, yep it all added up. And that was when that much money was a LOT!



... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

I can't remember exactly. I keep thinking MajorBBS was at least a few hundred and they upsold you on the "Galaticboard" serial card which was another couple hundred bucks.

MajorBBS was pretty fascinating, though. A single DOS program handling that scale of simultaneous users...super cool.

To be fair TBBS was absolutely fascinating. You could get your hands on
a pirate copy but it was absolutely useless without the printed manual. It was "the mother" of all Rube Goldberg
lets-make-it-freaking-complicated contraptions. But when you really
began to understand why it did things the way it did... it actually
made sense. The manuals were very professional.

I have a TBBS instance set up myself that you can select from my "main" BBS, which I use to really just expose people to its original games. They are so unique...moreso than MajorBBS, whereby all their unique doors kind of feel the same (which is not a bad thing, mind you). There's currently a TBBS effort underway by some folks to reinvigorate interest in the platform.

I was a huge fan and wrote some crude textfile-utils for John Souvestre's hub system in the 90's. It seemed like him and many TBBS Sysops jumped ship and started their own ISP businesses when the author invented a router appliance and began pitching the Internet as the future.

I'd love to see these utils you wrote if you still have them, or if you have anything TBBS related for that matter!

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/02/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (1:218/820)

I actually started to create a similar video for Synchronet sysops
around 1994 (I thought it was an original idea) and had the video camera for (screen capture/recording wasn't really a thing yet), high-end duplication quality SVHS VCR, script, etc, but never really got around
to finishing it before the sales started to obviously slow down in 1995. Wish I had finished it. :-( --

No time like the present! Though I must insist you use period correct video production equipment. Someone around here has to have a Video Toaster!

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/02/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (1:218/820)

On 10 Apr 23 19:35:45, Ryan Fantus said the following to Nick Andre:

I have a TBBS instance set up myself that you can select from my "main" BBS which I use to really just expose people to its original games. They are so unique...moreso than MajorBBS, whereby all their unique doors kind of feel same (which is not a bad thing, mind you). There's currently a TBBS effort underway by some folks to reinvigorate interest in the platform.

How are you handling inbound connections on the TBBS instance? Interchange?

I'd love to see these utils you wrote if you still have them, or if you hav anything TBBS related for that matter!

A long time ago I mooched everything off tbbs.org when that site was alive, I just gotta find it amongst boxes of CD-R's, LTO tapes, old IDE drives etc.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Jas Hud wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

people didn't need that and didn't want it.

No, I recall you and I having conversations where you expressed concerns
about the user information sharing between boards. The number of boards
running CoA was growing, but I get the feeling EC got bored of the noise
and pulled the plug.



--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

Sean Dennis wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

Sysops freaked out about sharing user info, but I liked the
telegram-like feel of it. Messaging had gone from multiple day
round-trips with dial-up star/backbone systems to real-time.

Why not just use Telegram and leave the middleman out of it?

Because it was messages, chat, door games, files, and the potential for
much more - all done in a completely different way than the usual FTN,
store and forward means.



... Abandon desire
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

Sean Dennis wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

If I had a way to transfer micropayments to sysops and artists, I'd certainly use it.

You've never heard of Flattr?

No, I'm looking at it now. It looks like a nice way to reward
*presences* on the internet. I'm guessing it's like ko-fi.com in some
ways.

What Jaron Lanier was talking about was a micropayment system where you
could compensate content on the web, in payments of fraction of cents to sub-dollar amounts on a one-time basis to content creators in an
unstructured way - imagine seeing a relevant post on Linkedin and having
the like button transfer 10 cents to the author. readers forward and
share the content. Scale takes care of the rest.



... Abandon desire
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

Sean Dennis wrote to Dennis Scott <=-

You obviously have never tried to make money from a BBS...it was cool
in the 90s but BBSing is a small niche hobby these days.

I had a subscription offering back in the '90s that was cheap - I had a
couple of long time callers and that guy who pulled the whole Fido
backbone down into Bluewave. It was never intended to cover the bills,
was more a way for people to give back if they wanted to.

Where running a BBS became more lucrative was at the quarterly (or more
often) get-togethers. Many pints of beer and coffee were bought for me
which meant more than the subscriptions.




... DELIVERY - CONTESTABILITY - IMPROVULENCE - UPSOAR - YESNESS
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

Sean Dennis wrote to Jas Hud <=-

Like how nearly every MBBS system in the 90s charged a subscription because the software was so expensive?

I don't miss the multi-line PCBoard/MBBS/whichever pay systems from the
'90s.

There was a night-and-day difference between the look and feel of a
single-line BBS run by a caller turned sysop and a for-pay, turnkey
multi-line BBS. I soon stuck to the former.




... THE HEXAGONS OF AIM
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

Nick Andre wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

This is true.. If you bought either MBBS or TBBS it was an investment
that you wanted recouped. I never once saw a totally "free" one of
those systems until much later, when the novelty wore off.

If I recall, there were some other paid packages - Searchlight, Wildcat
and others were expensive (to me), but not in the range of the
multi-line BBSes. Those seemed more geared to the well-off sysop rather
than the sysop looking to run a business off of his/her BBS.



... UNPRISON YOUR THINK RHINO
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

On 10 Apr 23 07:33:00, Kurt Weiske said the following to Nick Andre:

If I recall, there were some other paid packages - Searchlight, Wildcat
and others were expensive (to me), but not in the range of the
multi-line BBSes. Those seemed more geared to the well-off sysop rather than the sysop looking to run a business off of his/her BBS.

I was a huge fan of Searchlight as well, as it did Ansi lightbars and Rip better than ANY other system... hands down. It was all native, totally amazing. Then there was the Spinnaker web server add-on which was neat...

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

To: Kurt Weiske
Re: Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Kurt Weiske to Jas Hud on Mon Apr 10 2023 06:57 am

Jas Hud wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

people didn't need that and didn't want it.

No, I recall you and I having conversations where you expressed concerns about the user information sharing between boards. The number of boards

i only said something one time because they were letting anybody join up and then they were seeing everyone's user data without informing the users.
that's a security risk.

If you are accusing me of being successful in shutting it down, that's just wrong. they still ran it after i complained. then even after that, they modified it and it ran differently.

running CoA was growing, but I get the feeling EC got bored of the noise
and pulled the plug.

bored of what noise?

i think you're just making things up. you were a member. you should REALLY know instead of pulling shit out of your ass instead by saying "i get the feeling". why is it that i know more about it than you do and i wasn't even a member?
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

To: Kurt Weiske
Re: Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Kurt Weiske to Sean Dennis on Mon Apr 10 2023 06:58 am

Sean Dennis wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

Sysops freaked out about sharing user info, but I liked the
telegram-like feel of it. Messaging had gone from multiple day
round-trips with dial-up star/backbone systems to real-time.

Why not just use Telegram and leave the middleman out of it?

Because it was messages, chat, door games, files, and the potential for
much more - all done in a completely different way than the usual FTN,
store and forward means.

you're making it seem like some magical shit.
the bbses were just sharing the same datafiles.
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

To: Kurt Weiske
Re: Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Kurt Weiske to Sean Dennis on Mon Apr 10 2023 07:26 am

Sean Dennis wrote to Jas Hud <=-

Like how nearly every MBBS system in the 90s charged a subscription because the software was so expensive?

I don't miss the multi-line PCBoard/MBBS/whichever pay systems from the '90s.

i miss them. what ones were you a member of?
the ones that metropolous ran were nice.
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

How are you handling inbound connections on the TBBS instance? Interchange?

I'm hosting TBBS in DosBox and am using IPX within, and then there's a program that handles the telnet->IPX connection called "tiad-NG". It works well enough :)

A long time ago I mooched everything off tbbs.org when that site was alive, I just gotta find it amongst boxes of CD-R's, LTO tapes, old IDE drives etc.

Fun fact... tbbs.org is back! Sorta. For a week or so now. There's a renewed interest there :)

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/02/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (1:218/820)

I was a huge fan of Searchlight as well, as it did Ansi lightbars and
Rip better than ANY other system... hands down. It was all native, totally amazing. Then there was the Spinnaker web server add-on which
was neat...

Well, now I'm curious to check it out...ugh...lol.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/02/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (1:218/820)

On 11 Apr 23 15:28:01, Ryan Fantus said the following to Nick Andre:

I was a huge fan of Searchlight as well, as it did Ansi lightbars and Rip better than ANY other system... hands down. It was all native, totally amazing. Then there was the Spinnaker web server add-on which was neat...

Well, now I'm curious to check it out...ugh...lol.

Ha! Down the rabbit hole you go!

Let me know when you install Spinnaker, and come to find out that you cannot modify the "dynamic webpages" without.... wait for it....... Borland Paradox.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

On 11 Apr 23 15:27:15, Ryan Fantus said the following to Nick Andre:

I'm hosting TBBS in DosBox and am using IPX within, and then there's a prog that handles the telnet->IPX connection called "tiad-NG". It works well eno :)

Never heard of Tiad-NG, I shall have to add that to the mooch-list.

If I remember correctly (a phrase I find myself saying a lot in this echo)... it was Interchange required to run DOS doors.

Fun fact... tbbs.org is back! Sorta. For a week or so now. There's a renew interest there :)

Saw that! I miss the forums on that site. Many guys who ran the multi-line BBS's were on there with stories to tell.

Nick

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Re: Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Nick Andre to Kurt Weiske on Tue Apr 11 2023 02:03 pm

I was a huge fan of Searchlight as well, as it did Ansi lightbars and Rip better than ANY other system... hands down. It was all native, totally amazing. Then there was the Spinnaker web server add-on which was neat...

I was co-sysop of Just Say Yes, one of the more popular 415 BBSes. Dr. Strangelove ran lightbar menus on it, and it felt light-years ahead of all of the ASCII BBS menus out there at the time.

...Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality?
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Win32
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

Re: Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Jas Hud to Kurt Weiske on Tue Apr 11 2023 03:52 pm

i think you're just making things up. you were a member. you should REALLY know instead of pulling shit out of your ass instead by saying "i get the feeling". why is it that i know more about it than you do and i wasn't even a member?

If anything, you're consistent.
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Win32
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On 11 Apr 23 15:48:41, Kurt Weiske said the following to Nick Andre:

I was a huge fan of Searchlight as well, as it did Ansi lightbars and better than ANY other system... hands down. It was all native, totally amazing. Then there was the Spinnaker web server add-on which was neat

I was co-sysop of Just Say Yes, one of the more popular 415 BBSes. Dr. Strangelove ran lightbar menus on it, and it felt light-years ahead of all the ASCII BBS menus out there at the time.

We had a board in Net 252, Galaxian... it was constantly busy. You could NEVER get through and when you did, mehhhh he had some "warez" but nothing really special. But for some reason it was a very popular board.

Someone told me the Sysop would take the phone off-hook on purpose, just to drive people nuts and make it seem it was busier than it really was.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

To: Kurt Weiske
Re: Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Kurt Weiske to Jas Hud on Tue Apr 11 2023 03:49 pm

Re: Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Jas Hud to Kurt Weiske on Tue Apr 11 2023 03:52 pm

i think you're just making things up. you were a member. you should REALLY know instead of pulling shit out of your ass instead by saying "i get the feeling". why is it that i know more about it than you do and i wasn't even a member?

If anything, you're consistent.

i could say the exact same thing about you.
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

On 11 Apr 23 18:03:13, Jas Hud said the following to Kurt Weiske:

If anything, you're consistent.

i could say the exact same thing about you.

Now now Professor... I'm in Philly next week. I made an open invitation in Z1C for beer and wings at my expense for anyone that wants to meetup in person.

Oh wait... you missed the memo. You don't have a node number.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Nick Andre wrote to Jas Hud <=-

i could say the exact same thing about you.

Now now Professor... I'm in Philly next week. I made an open
invitation in Z1C for beer and wings at my expense for anyone
that wants to meetup in person.

Oh wait... you missed the memo. You don't have a node number.

He doesn't even have a publicly available BBS.



... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Nick Andre wrote to Ryan Fantus <=-

Let me know when you install Spinnaker, and come to find out that you cannot modify the "dynamic webpages" without.... wait for it....... Borland Paradox.

I'll put that right next to my Filemaker web server in the dark recesses
of my mind.



... Where is the edge?
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

Nick Andre wrote to Jas Hud <=-

Now now Professor... I'm in Philly next week. I made an open invitation
in Z1C for beer and wings at my expense for anyone that wants to meetup
in person.

We should organize a traveling sysops meetup, now that we can't meet at
a local watering hole. I'm going to be in Boston some time in the next
few weeks, and maybe Texas again. Who's local?




--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

Nick Andre wrote to Jas Hud <=-

Oh wait... you missed the memo. You don't have a node number.

The first rule of the super-sekrit Zone 1 only echo is that we don't
talk about the super-sekrit Zone 1 only echo where Zone 2 can read...



... Where is the edge?
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On 12 Apr 23 06:53:00, Kurt Weiske said the following to Nick Andre:

Let me know when you install Spinnaker, and come to find out that you cannot modify the "dynamic webpages" without.... wait for it....... Borland Paradox.

I'll put that right next to my Filemaker web server in the dark recesses
of my mind.

Would those dark recesses also cross into Lotus Notes territory?

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

On 12 Apr 23 06:56:00, Kurt Weiske said the following to Nick Andre:

We should organize a traveling sysops meetup, now that we can't meet at
a local watering hole. I'm going to be in Boston some time in the next
few weeks, and maybe Texas again. Who's local?

Before Covid happened I was making noise in Region 12 and elsewhere about getting a BBS-con going again, even if it was just a gathering at my place
or at some sleazy sports bar in Toronto with good wings, beer, darts, pool.

I had many Sysops reply with interest but never finalized anything unfortunately. Then a few months later came the stay-at-home orders.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Re: Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Nick Andre to Kurt Weiske on Wed Apr 12 2023 12:19 pm

I'll put that right next to my Filemaker web server in the dark
recesses of my mind.

Would those dark recesses also cross into Lotus Notes territory?

Grr, yes. Lotus Notes and WordPerfect Office/Groupwise, too.
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Win32
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

Nick Andre wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

Let me know when you install Spinnaker, and come to find out that you cannot modify the "dynamic webpages" without.... wait for it....... Borland Paradox.

I'll put that right next to my Filemaker web server in the dark recesses of my mind.

Would those dark recesses also cross into Lotus Notes territory?

Oh. gawd. make it stop.



... "He who is without oil, shall cast the first rod."-Compressions 8.7:1.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Nick Andre wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

And that new Sysop usually vanishes a few months later. Usually with no notice to his Echomail hub either.

I get that a lot in Micronet though we had some funny "self-destruct" sysops over the years.

-- Sean

... "I never think of the future. It comes soon enough." - A. Einstein
--- MMail/FreeBSD
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

Jas Hud wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

well when i was writing that i'm talking about the telnet age, not
dialup age.

I knew of several MBBS systems that supported both POTS and telnet in the
90s.

during the dialup years, i did subscribe to some of those and it was because they provided internet access when it was crummy in my area.

My friend started a dialup ISP in the 90s and eventully sold it to Earthlink for a tidy profit.

- Sean

... Press <Ctrl-Alt-Del> now to access the pirate software.
--- MMail/FreeBSD
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

Jas Hud wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

he used a bad example. what it was, was the boards all had their data files linked. so same doorgames, msg areas, user files, etc.

To me that is not anything individulistic but more of a hivemind.

- Sean

... Dragons make great pets. Just put down LOTS of newspaper.
--- MMail/FreeBSD
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

Kurt Weiske wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

Because it was messages, chat, door games, files, and the potential for much more - all done in a completely different way than the usual FTN, store and forward means.

You could just do that with a good CMS and not bother with a BBS, IMNSHO.

-- Sean


... Why does pizza get to your house faster than the police?
--- MMail/FreeBSD
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

Kurt Weiske wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

Sean Dennis wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

What Jaron Lanier was talking about was a micropayment system where you could compensate content on the web, in payments of fraction of cents
to sub-dollar amounts on a one-time basis to content creators in an unstructured way - imagine seeing a relevant post on Linkedin and
having the like button transfer 10 cents to the author. readers forward and share the content. Scale takes care of the rest.

You'd die in bank processing fees alone. I mean, you could use Paypal for that; why reinvent the wheel? Too many new sysops don't understand that
things work the way they do for many reasons. Like I said, every five
years or so, all of this "BBS newthink" crops up and it disappears just as
fast as it appears.

What I'd like is people to actually produce proof-of-concept instead of talk but as usual, nothing happens...

For me, getting everything working on FreeBSD was adventure enough.

-- Sean

... Not tonight, dear. I have a modem.
--- MMail/FreeBSD
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

Kurt Weiske wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

Where running a BBS became more lucrative was at the quarterly (or more often) get-togethers. Many pints of beer and coffee were bought for me which meant more than the subscriptions.

That I agree with. When I was stationed at Fort Hood from '96-'98, BBSes
were still quite popular and the weekly regional BBS meetup was so big we'd take over an entire restaurant. Those were indeed halcyon days.

-- Sean

... Are tired Army clothes called fatigues?
--- MMail/FreeBSD
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

To: Sean Dennis
Re: Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Sean Dennis to Jas Hud on Wed Apr 12 2023 06:26 pm

Jas Hud wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

well when i was writing that i'm talking about the telnet age, not dialup age.

I knew of several MBBS systems that supported both POTS and telnet in the 90s.

yeah i did too. i was on metro gameport and the other bbses they owned.
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

To: Sean Dennis
Re: Re: BBS Software Timeout Values
By: Sean Dennis to Jas Hud on Wed Apr 12 2023 06:28 pm

Jas Hud wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

he used a bad example. what it was, was the boards all had their data files linked. so same doorgames, msg areas, user files, etc.

To me that is not anything individulistic but more of a hivemind.

well it's something that wasn't very well thought out.
why have all these bbses when the datafiles are all linked?
why not have one?

i'm sure it started as 'hey we can get more users in our doorgames and people don't have to setup msg echos'.
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Sean Dennis wrote to Jas Hud <=-

My friend started a dialup ISP in the 90s and eventully sold it to Earthlink for a tidy profit.

That would have been a good market to sell in -- the large ISPs were
clamoring for local points-of-premise in the late 90s when dial-up was
king.



... Into the impossible
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