The Internet ruined everything. :-( J/K

Nah .. self check out did though.

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Re: Re: Internet
By: JaXson to Elf on Fri Dec 08 2023 07:58 pm

The Internet ruined everything. :-( J/K

Nah .. self check out did though.

One thing I've wondered about - People complain because they don't like self-checkouts at the store, yet people like to pump their own gas for their car and often don't like needing a gas station attendant. Seems a bit contradictory.

I live in a state where self-service gas stations were against the law (only recently did my state start allowing self-service gas), and I've often seen people from out of state complain when they come here and find out they couldn't pump their own gas. But they don't like checking their own groceries?

Nightfox

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Re: Re: Internet
By: Nightfox to JaXson on Sat Dec 16 2023 06:07 pm

One thing I've wondered about - People complain because they don't like self-checkouts at the store, yet people like to pump their own gas for their car and often don't like needing a gas station attendant. Seems a bit contradictory.

Yeh, I haven't seen anyone complain about someone else pumping their gas, unless they were being charged more to do it. Then again, I don't live in Oregon :). Been there once, though! Didn't mind letting someone else fill 'er up. Back in the day, we had a full service option in my state. That went away, though, because who wants to pay more for gas? People with those jobs here weren't that careful anyway, I don't think.

Personally, I don't use self-checkout because I'm not a fan of machines replacing our workforce... or having ME replace the workforce! I'll let another person check me out. That's one more job for them and possibly one more available job elsewhere for someone like me.

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Re: Re: Internet
By: JaXson to Elf on Fri Dec 08 2023 07:58 pm

The Internet ruined everything. :-( J/K

Nah .. self check out did though.

i love self check out. now they dont have enough self checkout lines open.
i just think we should get a discount for using it.
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Re: Re: Internet
By: Nightfox to JaXson on Sat Dec 16 2023 06:07 pm

I live in a state where self-service gas stations were against the law (only recently did my state start allowing self-service gas), and I've often seen people from out of state complain when they come here and find out they couldn't pump their own gas. But they don't like checking their own groceries?

i love doing self checkout and packing my own groceries. twice this year when
i had to use a regular checkout they forgot to put the items in my cart.
this is with a checkout person bagging AND a bagger. i had to go back inside for my booze. then another bag just got left behind in the turnstyle bagger thing. i work nights so i zone out when they do it because i've probably been up 18 hrs. Am i required to supervise?

and in my state we do self pump but there's some places that have the service also. you have to pay more. the only benefit is you dont get the gas smell on your hand but i haven't had a pump do that to me in a while.

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Re: Re: Internet
By: MRO to JaXson on Sun Dec 17 2023 06:17 am

i love self check out. now they dont have enough self checkout lines open. i just think we should get a discount for using it.

Seriously, self check is great. Go up, scan shit, pay, get the fuck out. Don't have to (usually) talk to anyone, and I'm far faster than the doesn't-get-paid-enough-for-this-bullshit cashier.
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Hello Nightfox!

** On Saturday 16.12.23 - 18:07, Nightfox wrote to JaXson:

The Internet ruined everything. :-( J/K

Nah .. self check out did though.

One thing I've wondered about - People complain because
they don't like self-checkouts at the store, yet people
like to pump their own gas for their car and often don't
like needing a gas station attendant. Seems a bit
contradictory.

Pumping gas is a one-product thing. Requires a few steps.

Whereas, checking out cartful of things is multi-step and takes
more fiddling around - such as identifying the locations of the
barcodes or entering them manually, etc..

often seen people from out of state complain when they come
here and find out they couldn't pump their own gas. But
they don't like checking their own groceries?

See above.


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Re: Re: Internet
By: Phigan to Nightfox on Sat Dec 16 2023 11:42 pm

self-checkouts at the store, yet people like to pump their own gas for

Yeh, I haven't seen anyone complain about someone else pumping their gas, unless they were being charged more to do it. Then again, I don't live in Oregon :). Been there once, though! Didn't mind letting someone else fill 'er up. Back in the day, we had a full service option in my state. That went away, though, because who wants to pay more for gas? People with those jobs here weren't that careful anyway, I don't think.

With gas prices varying so widely (even between 2 gas stations down the street from each other), I think it's hard to even determine if you're really paying more for that. I live within driving distance from Washington State (which is all self-service for gas), and their gas prices are pretty much on par with Oregon gas prices.

I've heard New Jersey also doesn't allow self-service gas (and is now the only US state that doesn't, now that Oregon allows it).

Personally, I don't use self-checkout because I'm not a fan of machines replacing our workforce... or having ME replace the workforce! I'll let another person check me out. That's one more job for them and possibly one more available job elsewhere for someone like me.

I'm not a big fan of replacing the workforce either. And that's one argument people here have had about gas station attendants - They're jobs people have where they're earning money, and allowing self-service gas would mean elimination of jobs.

Nightfox

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Re: Internet
By: Ogg to Nightfox on Sun Dec 17 2023 09:16 am

Whereas, checking out cartful of things is multi-step and takes
more fiddling around - such as identifying the locations of the
barcodes or entering them manually, etc..

are you saying that scanning barcodes is hard? because i'm literally better at checking out my own stuff than someone that's done it in a grocery store
for years.

I haven't seen anybody have to type in a barcode manually for like 25 years, i'm not even sure if it's possible anymore with the register software they use.
they just choose a generic item usually.
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Nightfox wrote to JaXson <=-

One thing I've wondered about - People complain because they don't like self-checkouts at the store, yet people like to pump their own gas for their car and often don't like needing a gas station attendant. Seems
a bit contradictory.

Full serve used to cost around 10 cents a gallon more in states that
offered both. If self-checkout gives me a discount, sure, I'll do your
job for you!

There was a gas station near one town over when I grew up. Full-service
was fading as it was not much more than someone putting the nozzle in
your car.

This place had guys wearing coveralls with their names on them, they
would check your tires, your oil, top off your radiator and washer
fluid, and wash *all* of your windows with towels and a spray bottle
instead of a squeegee. We'd go there before taking a girl out on a
date...



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Phigan wrote to Nightfox <=-

Personally, I don't use self-checkout because I'm not a fan of machines replacing our workforce... or having ME replace the workforce! I'll let another person check me out. That's one more job for them and possibly
one more available job elsewhere for someone like me.

I was in Italy this summer. At the little corner stores, they'd scan
your items, but then leave them at the bottom of the conveyor and look
at you strangely when you asked for a bag. They'd sort of pull off one
of those thin plastic bags that most US states have banned, and have
you bag away.

My italian wasn't great, I may have been asking for something else and
not known.



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Ogg wrote to Nightfox <=-

Pumping gas is a one-product thing. Requires a few steps.

Whereas, checking out cartful of things is multi-step and takes
more fiddling around - such as identifying the locations of the
barcodes or entering them manually, etc..

And, then, having a "loss control specialist" look through your items
and possibly detain you for shoplifting, justified or otherwise.




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Nightfox wrote to Phigan <=-

I'm not a big fan of replacing the workforce either. And that's one argument people here have had about gas station attendants - They're
jobs people have where they're earning money, and allowing self-service gas would mean elimination of jobs.

Yeah, in self-service states, Big Oil has lobbied for restrictions
around ADA requirements. Gas stations used to be required to pump gas
for people with handicapped placards on request. Now, I notice many of
the stations with a sign saying that because of staffing limitations,
the ADA requirement doesn't apply, with some link to the exemption for single-employee stations.

Anything to save a buck.



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Re: Re: Internet
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Phigan on Sun Dec 17 2023 07:41 am

at you strangely when you asked for a bag. They'd sort of pull off one
of those thin plastic bags that most US states have banned, and have
you bag away.

US states banned plastic bags at grocery stores? that's news to me.
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poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Phigan <=-

Personally, I don't use self-checkout because I'm not a fan of machines replacing our workforce... or having ME replace the workforce! I'll let another person check me out. That's one more job for them and possibly
one more available job elsewhere for someone like me.

I was in Italy this summer. At the little corner stores, they'd
scan your items, but then leave them at the bottom of the conveyor
and look at you strangely when you asked for a bag. They'd sort of pull off one of those thin plastic bags that most US states have banned, and have you bag away.

I was in Italy a couple of months ago, and had the same experience. I
guess they expect you to just gather all the items up and carry them
loosely, which doesn't work if it's 8-10 items. Eventually I got them
to understand that I wanted a bag, and they were happy to *sell* me a
couple of plastic bags. The bags were quite sturdy and cheap, but kind
of a strange process. A reminder that there are other ways than what we
know and are used to.


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Re: Re: Internet
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Sun Dec 17 2023 07:39 am

One thing I've wondered about - People complain because they don't like
self-checkouts at the store, yet people like to pump their own gas for
their car and often don't like needing a gas station attendant. Seems a
bit contradictory.

Full serve used to cost around 10 cents a gallon more in states that offered both. If self-checkout gives me a discount, sure, I'll do your job for you!

That's a good point - I don't know why there isn't a discount for using self-checkout at grocery stores.

Also, for gas stations, most of the gas statiosn here have attendants but it isn't full-service. They usually just pump your gas for you and that's it. They used to often clean your windshield with a squeegee, but most don't even do that anymore.

Also, gas prices vary so much, that it's hard to tell how much extra they'd charge for having attendants. I live not too far from the border of Washington State (where gas is self-service), and when I've driven into Vancouver WA, the gas prices there seem about the same as in Oregon.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: Internet
By: MRO to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Dec 18 2023 10:25 am

at you strangely when you asked for a bag. They'd sort of pull off one of
those thin plastic bags that most US states have banned, and have you bag
away.

US states banned plastic bags at grocery stores? that's news to me.

You hadn't heard about that? It was big in the news several years ago. I think California did, and then Oregon did about 3 or 4 years ago. They're not totally banned though, it's just that now, stores are mandated by law to charge you 10 cents per bag at checkout (even for paper bags), to encourage people to buy & use re-usable grocery bags.

And it's only for grocery bags at checkout. Stores still have plastic bags for vegetables in the produce section and for items in other sections, and those are still free. I'm not sure how it makes sense.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: Internet
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Phigan on Sun Dec 17 2023 07:41 am

I was in Italy this summer. At the little corner stores, they'd scan
your items, but then leave them at the bottom of the conveyor and look
at you strangely when you asked for a bag. They'd sort of pull off one
of those thin plastic bags that most US states have banned, and have
you bag away.

"This is the way"...across much of Europe, cashier scans the products and you bag as they do; preferably in to a bag you've brought with you. Depending on which country you're in there may be a tax on plastic bags this means you usually pay a small amount for the ones you use from the store or you buy a more durable bag at the checkout for a bit more. The advantage of the more durable bag is when it falls apart you can take it back to the store where they will exchange it for another new bag and recycle old one.

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Re: Re: Internet
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Ogg on Mon Dec 18 2023 08:02 am

Ogg wrote to Nightfox <=-

Pumping gas is a one-product thing. Requires a few steps.

Whereas, checking out cartful of things is multi-step and takes
more fiddling around - such as identifying the locations of the barcodes or entering them manually, etc..

And, then, having a "loss control specialist" look through your items
and possibly detain you for shoplifting, justified or otherwise.

at the machines i use the machine takes a photo and they review it.
they dont give you a shakedown.
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Re: Re: Internet
By: Nightfox to MRO on Mon Dec 18 2023 11:53 am

US states banned plastic bags at grocery stores? that's news to me.

You hadn't heard about that? It was big in the news several years ago. I think California did, and then Oregon did about 3 or 4 years ago. They're not totally banned though, it's just that now, stores are mandated by law to charge you 10 cents per bag at checkout (even for paper bags), to encourage people to buy & use re-usable grocery bags.

i heard something about it but i didn't know they followed through.
i used to travel across the usa every year and i never experienced the no plastic bags during my stops.

i'm not surprised california and oregon did something.

And it's only for grocery bags at checkout. Stores still have plastic bags for vegetables in the produce section and for items in other sections, and those are still free. I'm not sure how it makes sense.

absolutely does not make sense.
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Nightfox wrote to MRO <=-

US states banned plastic bags at grocery stores? that's news to me.

You hadn't heard about that? It was big in the news several
years ago. I think California did, and then Oregon did about 3
or 4 years ago. They're not totally banned though, it's just
that now, stores are mandated by law to charge you 10 cents per
bag at checkout (even for paper bags), to encourage people to buy
& use re-usable grocery bags.

It's news to me as well, and is definitely NOT the case here in Florida. Plastic is still the norm, and free.

Might be a red-state / blue-state thing, I suspect.



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Re: Re: Internet
By: MRO to Nightfox on Mon Dec 18 2023 05:50 pm

i heard something about it but i didn't know they followed through. i used to travel across the usa every year and i never experienced the no plastic bags during my stops.

i'm not surprised california and oregon did something.

In the end, they didn't totally ban the plastic bags; they just charge for them now. Also, they've been offering more sturdy plastic bags that you could probably use multiple times.

I'm pretty sure stores even charge for paper bags. They just want you to bring your own re-usable bags.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: Internet
By: Nightfox to MRO on Mon Dec 18 2023 05:58 pm

Re: Re: Internet
By: MRO to Nightfox on Mon Dec 18 2023 05:50 pm

i heard something about it but i didn't know they followed through. i used to travel across the usa every year and i never experienced the no plastic bags during my stops.

i'm not surprised california and oregon did something.

In the end, they didn't totally ban the plastic bags; they just charge for them now. Also, they've been offering more sturdy plastic bags that you could probably use multiple times.

I'm pretty sure stores even charge for paper bags. They just want you to bring your own re-usable bags.

Nightfox

are they being 'environmental' or are they just finding a new way
to get money from you.

these walmart, etc style bags fall apart totally after a few years. they are designed this way for environmental reasons. where does the money they charge you go to? goes it go towards cleaning the ocean? i bet not but it should be.
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I haven't seen anybody have to type in a barcode manually for like 25 years, i'
not even sure if it's possible anymore with the register software they use.
they just choose a generic item usually.

I've seen them do it. It has to be done by the person watching the
self-check area (or another cashier) as they have to go into some screens
that the customer won't have access to. They usually have to scan their
badge to get those screens to come up.

I have not seen it often, but they can do it.


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This place had guys wearing coveralls with their names on them, they
would check your tires, your oil, top off your radiator and washer
fluid, and wash *all* of your windows with towels and a spray bottle
instead of a squeegee. We'd go there before taking a girl out on a
date...

In my area, most of that had faded out by the time I was old enough to
drive. When I was younger, and a passenger in my parent's cars (1970's and early 80's) I can still remember that the "name brand" places like Chevron, Exxon, etc., still did that. The convenience stores had not yet put those places out of business.


* SLMR 2.1a * ...Jupiter, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto, Mickey, Goofey...

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at you strangely when you asked for a bag. They'd sort of pull off one
of those thin plastic bags that most US states have banned, and have
you bag away.

US states banned plastic bags at grocery stores? that's news to me.

Kentucky has not for sure. OTOH, in California and Arizona this Summer, I
had to pay extra for a plastic bag. I just didn't get a bag at all in AZ
but, in CA I had too many things not to.

They sell them as "reusable" bags, and they are a little bigger and thicker than the usual ones, but they are no where near as sturdy as the optional reusable bags you can buy upon checkout here.


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at the machines i use the machine takes a photo and they review it.
they dont give you a shakedown.

Here, I know the Walmart takes video as there are times they show you
yourself on the screen. If Kroger does, they don't let you know and there
is no one between you and the door as you leave.

IMHO, the areas where the shakedown specialists are in use are the areas where they have a lot of problems with shoplifters -- likely in cities or states where they have quit prosecuting them.


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Re: Re: Internet
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Phigan on Sun Dec 17 2023 07:41 am

your items, but then leave them at the bottom of the conveyor and look
at you strangely when you asked for a bag. They'd sort of pull off one

Sometimes I think about whether it'd be nice to move back to Europe. Na, I think I'm way too spoiled :).

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Re: Re: Internet
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Mon Dec 18 2023 08:05 am

Anything to save a buck.

Pretty sure most of our stations here only employ cashiers. Most of them are just one person, but some are bigger and have two or three cash registers.

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Re: Re: Internet
By: Phigan to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Dec 19 2023 05:49 pm

Anything to save a buck.

Pretty sure most of our stations here only employ cashiers. Most of them are just one person, but some are bigger and have two or three cash registers.

Some stores where I am added self-checkout and then got rid of self-checkout, apparently due to theft at the self-checkout lanes.

Nightfox

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Re: Self serve checkout
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Tue Dec 19 2023 11:09 am

I haven't seen anybody have to type in a barcode manually for like 25 years, i'
not even sure if it's possible anymore with the register software they use.
they just choose a generic item usually.

I've seen them do it. It has to be done by the person watching the self-check area (or another cashier) as they have to go into some screens that the customer won't have access to. They usually have to scan their badge to get those screens to come up.

I have not seen it often, but they can do it.

do you go to kroger stores? i normally just go to kroger and walmart.
i don't buy anything weird so i don't really have scan problems.
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Re: Full-service gas
By: Dumas Walker to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Tue Dec 19 2023 11:08 am

This place had guys wearing coveralls with their names on them, they
would check your tires, your oil, top off your radiator and washer
fluid, and wash *all* of your windows with towels and a spray bottle
instead of a squeegee. We'd go there before taking a girl out on a
date...

In my area, most of that had faded out by the time I was old enough to drive. When I was younger, and a passenger in my parent's cars (1970's and early 80's) I can still remember that the "name brand" places like Chevron, Exxon, etc., still did that. The convenience stores had not yet put those places out of business.

the place i mentioned where it had a pump where you HAD to get service and you paid for eventually ended up selling because they weren't making decent money.
they also would close down everything including the pumps at 8pm. they had a garage that did all repairs but they focused on mostly doing emissions testing which makes pennies.

what i'm getting at is doing pumping service, etc is part of an old mindset that no longer works. i'll pump my gas, walk into kwiktrip while it's filling and be out. no issue for me.
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Re: Self serve checkout
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Tue Dec 19 2023 11:08 am

Kentucky has not for sure. OTOH, in California and Arizona this Summer, I had to pay extra for a plastic bag. I just didn't get a bag at all in AZ but, in CA I had too many things not to.

They sell them as "reusable" bags, and they are a little bigger and thicker than the usual ones, but they are no where near as sturdy as the optional reusable bags you can buy upon checkout here.

it just sounds like another scam that does nothing for the environment
and makes more money for someone. like i said those regular bags disintegrate. even when packed in tight. i've seen it with my own eyes.
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Re: Self serve checkout
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Tue Dec 19 2023 11:08 am

at the machines i use the machine takes a photo and they review it.
they dont give you a shakedown.

Here, I know the Walmart takes video as there are times they show you yourself on the screen. If Kroger does, they don't let you know and there is no one between you and the door as you leave.

IMHO, the areas where the shakedown specialists are in use are the areas where they have a lot of problems with shoplifters -- likely in cities or states where they have quit prosecuting them.

it gets me because i'm tall and i'll crack open my wallet and get my shoppers card out.
the camera thinks i'm fake scanning an item from the time i crack the wallet to when i scan then card. it's stupid. i guess it works though.

what really works is a watchful eye. i saw a dude scan a case of beer and when it tells him to wait for id he just walks out like he bought it. this old broad went after him and dude had to walk back.
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Re: Self serve checkout
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Tue Dec 19 2023 11:09 am

I haven't seen anybody have to type in a barcode manually for like 25

I've seen them do it. It has to be done by the person watching the self-check area (or another cashier) as they have to go into some screens that the customer won't have access to. They usually have to scan their badge to get those screens to come up.

I have not seen it often, but they can do it.

Here (UK) the customer can do it as there is a numeric keypad on the screen of the self serve. There's one barcode that will stick in my memory for ever from when I worked on a till 50201600 A Cadbury's Creme Egg (due to their shape the individual eggs never scanned). I did used to know a lottery ticket as well but that seems to have escaeped me!

This was from the days where the till was just a numeric keypad with function buttons...no touch screen, and a single dotmatrix line display. When the place I worked finally did upgrade there was a dedicated button for Creme Eggs and Lottery Tickets...you could also Win Key + R and load up solitaire for those long shifts!

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Re: Self serve checkout
By: MRO to Dumas Walker on Tue Dec 19 2023 11:48 pm

it just sounds like another scam that does nothing for the environment and makes more money for someone. like i said those regular bags disintegrate. even when packed in tight. i've seen it with my own eyes.

And it doesn't really make much sense to me that it's only the bags at checkout, but the clear plastic bags for produce, bulk items, etc. are still free.

Nightfox

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Re: Self serve checkout
By: Nightfox to MRO on Wed Dec 20 2023 09:21 am

it just sounds like another scam that does nothing for the environment and makes more money for someone. like i said those regular bags disintegrate. even when packed in tight. i've seen it with my own eyes.

And it doesn't really make much sense to me that it's only the bags at checkout, but the clear plastic bags for produce, bulk items, etc. are still free.

and those bags do not break down like checkout bags.
it's 'conserving' for face.

just like how china pretends to recycle but the recycle trash goes to the normal trash.
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I've seen them do it. It has to be done by the person watching the self-check area (or another cashier) as they have to go into some screens that the customer won't have access to. They usually have to scan their badge to get those screens to come up.

I have not seen it often, but they can do it.

do you go to kroger stores? i normally just go to kroger and walmart.
i don't buy anything weird so i don't really have scan problems.

Yes, those are the two I usually go to. I don't usually have scan problems unless something is wrong with the barcode.


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what i'm getting at is doing pumping service, etc is part of an old mindset tha
no longer works. i'll pump my gas, walk into kwiktrip while it's filling and
e out. no issue for me.

With the decline in service to pretty much just pumping gas, I would have
to agree... there is not much point in it.


* SLMR 2.1a * Beware of programmers carrying screwdrivers.

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They sell them as "reusable" bags, and they are a little bigger and thicker
than the usual ones, but they are no where near as sturdy as the optional reusable bags you can buy upon checkout here.

it just sounds like another scam that does nothing for the environment
and makes more money for someone. like i said those regular bags disintegrate
even when packed in tight. i've seen it with my own eyes.

I thought so also. IMHO, if someone was concerned about the environment, they'd buy some of the more sturdy (usually cloth or some synthetic) bags
and take those into the store with them. The bags in question, being
similar to the regular bags, just thicker, don't seem like something you
could keep around near as long as the reusable alternatives, and also don't seem like something that would disintegrate as fast as the regular plastic bags. Sounds more like a lose-lose.


* SLMR 2.1a * Answers: $1 æ Correct answers: $5 æ Dumb looks: Free! Ã

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This was from the days where the till was just a numeric keypad with function buttons...no touch screen, and a single dotmatrix line display. When the plac
I worked finally did upgrade there was a dedicated button for Creme Eggs and Lottery Tickets...you could also Win Key + R and load up solitaire for those long shifts!

We do have some things that the customer can look up and ring out without intervention. Usually fruit and veg where the little sticker is likely to
come off. Maybe there is a way to get it to let us key a barcode that I
just don't know about. They do appear to run Windows as I have seen some
of them booting up, or stuck on a "screen of death." ;)

I worked retail back in the late 1980s. Would have been nice to be able to bring up a game of some sort but my long shifts were usually busy ones.


* SLMR 2.1a * ....we came in?

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Re: Full-service gas
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Wed Dec 20 2023 08:56 am

what i'm getting at is doing pumping service, etc is part of an old mindset
tha no longer works. i'll pump my gas, walk into kwiktrip while it's
filling and e out. no issue for me.

With the decline in service to pretty much just pumping gas, I would have to agree... there is not much point in it.

The state where I live recently started to allow self-service gas pumping. I'm fine with pumping my own gas, and it does save time since you don't have to wait for an attendant, though there were times I did like not having to get out of my car to do that.

Nightfox

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Re: Full-service gas
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Wed Dec 20 2023 08:56 am

what i'm getting at is doing pumping service, etc is part of an old mindset tha
no longer works. i'll pump my gas, walk into kwiktrip while it's filling and
e out. no issue for me.

With the decline in service to pretty much just pumping gas, I would have
to agree... there is not much point in it.

like i said before, i used to use this gas station and you'd pump gas and your hand would stink like gas. I haven't had that issue for years. that's the only reason why i'd let someone pump my gas for me.
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Re: Self serve checkout
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Wed Dec 20 2023 09:00 am

I thought so also. IMHO, if someone was concerned about the environment, they'd buy some of the more sturdy (usually cloth or some synthetic) bags and take those into the store with them. The bags in question, being similar to the regular bags, just thicker, don't seem like something you could keep around near as long as the reusable alternatives, and also don't seem like something that would disintegrate as fast as the regular plastic bags. Sounds more like a lose-lose.

A sturdy reusable bag takes as much plastic to produce as 40 expendable bags.

I am not sure most people uses reusable bags for long enough to break even. Some people does but I don't think most do.

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Re: Self serve checkout
By: Arelor to Dumas Walker on Thu Dec 21 2023 06:01 am

A sturdy reusable bag takes as much plastic to produce as 40 expendable bags.

I am not sure most people uses reusable bags for long enough to break even. Some people does but I don't think most do.

we use them for used cat litter.
and when i did doordash i would take a ton with me for when it was raining to protect the people's bags.
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Re: Self serve checkout
By: Arelor to Dumas Walker on Thu Dec 21 2023 06:01 am

A sturdy reusable bag takes as much plastic to produce as 40 expendable bags.

I am not sure most people uses reusable bags for long enough to break even. Some people does but I don't think most do.

It seems to me that most people who use reusable bags buy them somewhere else, and the ones I usually see people using aren't plastic, but are made of fabric of some kind.

Nightfox

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just like how china pretends to recycle but the recycle trash goes to the norma
trash.

And eventually into the waterways and the ocean.


* SLMR 2.1a * Quick, call a Witch Doctor. My witch is sick!

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A sturdy reusable bag takes as much plastic to produce as 40 expendable bags.

I am not sure most people uses reusable bags for long enough to break even. Some people does but I don't think most do.

It seems to me that most people who use reusable bags buy them somewhere else,
nd the ones I usually see people using aren't plastic, but are made of fabric
some kind.

In the first sentence, re: plastic bags, he is talking specifically to me
about the "reusable" plastic bags that markets in Southern CA sell at the checkout. They are slighly larger and thicker than the disposable bags,
and are not as sturdy looking as the ones you are refering to (i.e. the
ones that people who really care about the environment are going to be
using).


* SLMR 2.1a * Oxymoron: Hillary Rodham Clinton and open-door meetings.

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Hello Arelor!

A sturdy reusable bag takes as much plastic to produce as
40 expendable bags.

I am not sure most people uses reusable bags for long
enough to break even. Some people does but I don't think
most do.

So... do you provide plastic bags for walk-in customers? What
are other shops in Spain providing wrt bags?

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Re: Self serve checkout
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Thu Dec 21 2023 10:02 am

just like how china pretends to recycle but the recycle trash goes to the norma
trash.

And eventually into the waterways and the ocean.

well i saw a video on it and they are old school. a guy will come buy and dig through it and sell it to be recycled. like the 80s in the usa.

then i guess the factories throw the microplastics in the ocean! :D
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Re: Self serve checkout
By: Dumas Walker to NIGHTFOX on Thu Dec 21 2023 07:55 pm

In the first sentence, re: plastic bags, he is talking specifically to me about the "reusable" plastic bags that markets in Southern CA sell at the checkout. They are slighly larger and thicker than the disposable bags,
and are not as sturdy looking as the ones you are refering to (i.e. the
ones that people who really care about the environment are going to be using).

so the good ones are aldi style, right.
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Re: Self serve checkout
By: Dumas Walker to NIGHTFOX on Thu Dec 21 2023 07:55 pm

A sturdy reusable bag takes as much plastic to produce as 40
expendable
bags.

I am not sure most people uses reusable bags for long enough to break
even. Some people does but I don't think most do.

It seems to me that most people who use reusable bags buy them somewhere
else, nd the ones I usually see people using aren't plastic, but are made
of fabric some kind.

In the first sentence, re: plastic bags, he is talking specifically to me about the "reusable" plastic bags that markets in Southern CA sell at the checkout. They are slighly larger and thicker than the disposable bags, and are not as sturdy looking as the ones you are refering to (i.e. the ones that people who really care about the environment are going to be using).

I knwow what he was talking about - They have those bags at stores where I am too.

Nightfox

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Re: Self serve checkout
By: Ogg to Arelor on Thu Dec 21 2023 08:04 pm

So... do you provide plastic bags for walk-in customers? What
are other shops in Spain providing wrt bags?

I provide paper bags, because when I was getting started, my mother wanted me to have beautiful bags and didn't like the ones I was getting. She bought threeyears worth of bags supply and gave them to me for free just so I was forced touse them instead of the ones I actuallyu wanted to use...

It is illegal in Spain to give carry-away bags for free. I have mines concealedand if some customer asks for one I pull it out and give it to him for free.
Most people is expending well above 50 bucks per order and I think billing 5 cents when somebody is spending 75 bucks is very lame.

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Re: Self serve checkout
By: Arelor to Ogg on Tue Dec 26 2023 06:25 am

It is illegal in Spain to give carry-away bags for free. I have mines concealedand if some customer asks for one I pull it out and give it to him for free.
Most people is expending well above 50 bucks per order and I think billing 5 cents when somebody is spending 75 bucks is very lame.

so it's illegal to give plastic bags for free, but does the money charged go to a certain separate program for recycling?
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Hello Arelor!

It is illegal in Spain to give carry-away bags for free.

All bags? ..or just plastic ones?

If have to charge for the bags, do you have to send that money
to the government? How can they even enforce it?


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Ogg wrote to Arelor <=-

If have to charge for the bags, do you have to send that money
to the government? How can they even enforce it?

If they're shrewd they build it into the cost of the bag.

Not many people knew that blank CD-Rs had a kickback to the recording
industry. Every single one. They *assumed* that CD-Rs would be used for pirating music, and so lobbied the government to include a built-in
tariff, regardless of what you used them for. The manufacturer pays the government and bakes the charge into the media.

They probably do the same with bags.



... Abandon desire
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Re: Re: Self serve checkout* By: poindexter FORTRAN to Ogg on Wed Dec 27 2023 08:56 am** > pirating music, and so lobbied the government to include a built-in* > tariff, regardless of what you used them for. The manufacturer pays the* > government and bakes the charge into the media.* >* > They probably do the same with bags.* >**I doubt they do.*---* þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::*

Re: Self serve checkout* By: Ogg to Arelor on Tue Dec 26 2023 08:25 pm** A>> It is illegal in Spain to give carry-away bags for free.** Og> All bags? ..or just plastic ones?** Og> If have to charge for the bags, do you have to send that money * Og> to the government? How can they even enforce it?** Probably the same way sales tax is enforced/handled.**But, I'm not sure if it goes that far. The "fee" is really just a deterrent for people to not use plastic bags. I'm not sure how well it works. **DaiTengu**...Always forgive your enemies - nothing else annoys them as much.*---* þ Synchronet þ War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com*

Hello pF!** pF> Not many people knew that blank CD-Rs had a kickback to* pF> the recording industry. Every single one. They *assumed** pF> that CD-Rs would be used for pirating music, and so* pF> lobbied the government to include a built-in tariff,* pF> regardless of what you used them for. The manufacturer* pF> pays the government and bakes the charge into the media.**That tarrif was made widely known.*** pF> They probably do the same with bags.**Mums the word wrt bags. So, I doubt it's the same.**I just have to wonder how the gov't can force a retailer to *charge for the use of a bag.***--- OpenXP 5.0.58* * Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)* þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP*

Re: Self serve checkout
By: Ogg to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu Dec 28 2023 06:43 pm

Hello pF!

Not many people knew that blank CD-Rs had a kickback to
the recording industry. Every single one. They *assumed*
that CD-Rs would be used for pirating music, and so
lobbied the government to include a built-in tariff,
regardless of what you used them for. The manufacturer
pays the government and bakes the charge into the media.

That tarrif was made widely known.

i'm pretty sure that tarrif was only for canada.

I just have to wonder how the gov't can force a retailer to
charge for the use of a bag.

people can just decide to ignore them.
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Re: Self serve checkout
By: MRO to Arelor on Tue Dec 26 2023 08:29 am

so it's illegal to give plastic bags for free, but does the money charged go

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

No, it doesn't get funneled into any recycling program.

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Re: Self serve checkout
By: Ogg to Arelor on Tue Dec 26 2023 08:25 pm

Hello Arelor!

It is illegal in Spain to give carry-away bags for free.

All bags? ..or just plastic ones?

If have to charge for the bags, do you have to send that money
to the government? How can they even enforce it?

THey started banning free plastic bags. I don't know if they have borged paperbags in because, frankly, I don't care.

You can be as careful as you want not to break the law, then one day you get fined for some stupid detail you didn't even know was a legal requerinment.

When you have ten thousand silly laws, you destroy any respect for law.

There is no way I am gonna get my retirement pension out of the Spanish welfaresystem, so excuse me if I fail to comply with their nonsense.

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Re: Re: Self serve checkout
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Ogg on Wed Dec 27 2023 08:56 am

If they're shrewd they build it into the cost of the bag.

It is not a tax. They just want you to bill the bag.

Of course they would get the VAT from the bag that way. I guess many people hasnot realized it was a covered tax raise on working class folks - if I give a
bag for free I don't include its VAT in my declaration, if I happen to operate a business that declares VAT.

Small retailers don't declare VAT (they pay the sale taxes in advance, before selling the stuff) so how you declare your bag sales to be like afterwards doesn't matter much. It is different for big surfaces that do VAT declarations,in which I guess it makes a difference if the government get 21% of the price
of all bags sold.

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Re: Re: Self serve checkout
By: MRO to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu Dec 28 2023 02:44 am

I doubt they do.

Well, they bake a lot of hidden taxes in stuff.

You buy a LED light, it gets a recycle tax thrown in.

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Re: Self serve checkout
By: DaiTengu to Ogg on Thu Dec 28 2023 03:02 pm

But, I'm not sure if it goes that far. The "fee" is really just a deterrent

It doesn't. People uses plastic bags as if there was no tomorrow anyway. THey just get to pay moar.

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Re: Self serve checkout
By: Ogg to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu Dec 28 2023 06:43 pm

I just have to wonder how the gov't can force a retailer to
charge for the use of a bag.

By sending the Gestapo Business Inspection police to check you have the sign that reads "In accordance to law XXX we are billing for the bags in this place."

So many people have those signs that I suspect it is yet another mound of mandatory bullshit.

They also check you have your heating tunned down because they want both you and your customers to freeze to death in your store.

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Re: Self serve checkout
By: Arelor to MRO on Sat Dec 30 2023 04:41 am

Re: Self serve checkout
By: MRO to Arelor on Tue Dec 26 2023 08:29 am

so it's illegal to give plastic bags for free, but does the money charged go

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

No, it doesn't get funneled into any recycling program.

okay then i guess the stores make a profit by doing it.
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Re: Self serve checkout
By: Arelor to Ogg on Sat Dec 30 2023 04:46 am

THey started banning free plastic bags. I don't know if they have borged paperbags in because, frankly, I don't care.

You can be as careful as you want not to break the law, then one day you get fined for some stupid detail you didn't even know was a legal requerinment.

When you have ten thousand silly laws, you destroy any respect for law.

There is no way I am gonna get my retirement pension out of the Spanish welfaresystem, so excuse me if I fail to comply with their nonsense.

maybe we should all have a revolution in our countries.
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Hello MRO!

** On Saturday 30.12.23 - 08:07, MRO wrote to Arelor:

so it's illegal to give plastic bags for free, but does
the money charged go

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

No, it doesn't get funneled into any recycling program.

okay then i guess the stores make a profit by doing it.

A basic plastic bag costs about 5cents to buy in bulk. So..
the charge wouldn't be a profit by any means. However, a paper
bag with handles can easily cost 25cents to get. At that cost,
I would be incentivised to charge for those! :D


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