Gregory Deyss wrote to Dale Shipp <=-

The devil is in the details. You're being very generalistic.
Show me the bills of which you speak of. It's a kinder way of saying
PUSU.

According what Dale has said publicly, he had a career of being a government spook so he always speaks vaguely. Rarely does he PUSU.

He's not as bad as Alan but he is a lifelong Democrat and normally uses boilerplate responses (however vague).

After spending 27 years around these people, you start to notice patterns.

The fire in my belly has turned to heartburn these days and I am not as
strong as I used to be. But as an honorably discharged Army veteran, I care greatly about my country. However, I have learned to distrust my
government.

As Mark Twain said: "Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government when
it deserves it." Mr. Twain was as liberal (in our modern definition) as the day was long but at least he knew right from wrong.

-- Sean

... "Status quo, you know, is Latin for 'the mess we're in'." - R. Reagan
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On 05-29-23 01:03, Gregory Deyss <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: See what they do, not <=-

You say that, but the GOP record of what they do is far from it. GOP controlled states are busy passing laws that effectively restrict the ability to vote of minorities, passing laws that restrict education that even mentions gender, bans books, and is seen as a party of rich old
white men.

The devil is in the details. You're being very generalistic.
Show me the bills of which you speak of. It's a kinder way of saying
PUSU.

The news of any kind rarely gives the number of a bill, but rather just
what the effect is. Texas and Georgia passed laws that have the effect
of making it harder for minorities to vote. Some of the tools are
reducing the days for voting, reducing the number of ballot boxes, and
even things that make it harder to wait in line at a polling place --
e.g. a crime to give water to those in line.

Alternative Genders other then Boy or Girl should have no
place within any house of education.

There are times when a youth is struggeling with their sexual identity.
It would be useful to give them information to help them understand
themselves.

These books that you say are being banned...
Do you have any idea what is in these books, these are not
text books from the good folks at McGraw-Hill Education in
many cases these pornographic and explicit in nature, which
is why they should be banned for minors.

Here is another list of banned books https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=banned+books+in+sc hools+

Thanks for the pointer to a list of banned books. I can agree that many
of those books are not something that should be taught. However, there
are some that should be available for youth who are trying to wrestle
with their identity.

Banning "To Kill a Mockingbird" is ridiculous, but why, is it on the

Agreed.

banned list because these good for nothing liberal colleges are indoctrinating students as they are making them intolerant
to a book written from earlier time in history, editing
existing works is now underway as well.

I do not agree with your premise there.

Why? So they will not offend the easily offended or overly sensitive. Other works being modified Isaac Asimov and even Ian Fleming 007 Dumb
as Fu*k

I did not see any of those books on that list. They were both books
which I read in the past. There are many there that I do not know
about, but can guess from the title and/or the synopsis. There are
three that I would add to your statement of To Kill a Mockingbird,
namely The Kite Runner, The Color Purple, and Nineteen Eighty Four.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 09:33:38, 30 May 2022
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On 05-29-23 10:35, Mike Powell <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about See what they do, not sa <=-

You say that, but the GOP record of what they do is far from it. GOP controlled states are busy passing laws that effectively restrict the ability to vote of minorities, passing laws that restrict education that even mentions gender, bans books, and is seen as a party of rich old
white men. ^^^^^^^^^^

I am generally against this, but I have also seen illustrations from
some of the books in question. I see this as "every action has an opposite reaction." If dumbasses on the left were not so dead-set on having books in school libraries that, for example, graphically depict oral sex between two underaged males, this wouldn't be happening. Graphically, in this case, means illustrated.

I agree with this and the other examples you stated. My point is that
they are being over zealous in what they are banning. There are a few
books in the list Gregory pointed to that are serious works and should
not be banned.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 09:38:34, 30 May 2022
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On 05-29-23 19:52, Sean Dennis <=-
spoke to Gregory Deyss about Re: See what they do, no <=-

He's not as bad as Alan but he is a lifelong Democrat ...

Pretty much true, but since I have been able to vote I voted for a
Republican President 30% of the time, plus I voted for the Republican
Governor of my state twice.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 09:46:38, 30 May 2022
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On 05-29-23 20:06, Sean Dennis <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about See what they do, not sa <=-

Funny since an old white man is ruining the country now.

So passing laws that effectively restrict the ability to vote of minorities, you need an ID to open a bank account, you need an ID to
buy booze or tobacco, you need an ID to register a car, but no ID to
prove you're a citizen of this country to affect its future? So you're okay with illegal aliens (who make up a majority of the minorities according to the feds) deciding the future of the country you were born in?

Voter ID is a subject of debate, but I lean towards it is ok *IF* it is
made easy to obtain for minority citizens.

Banning books that have sexual perversion to push it on children is
bad? What kind of pervert are you?

I did not say that they should not keep some books from children. Of
the fifty books on the list Gregory mentioned, I am ok with 90% of them
not being available.

What kind of parent were you, Dale, with your kids? Did you allow
them to look at porn at eight years old? I think you spent too much
time being a spook and lost your common sense along the way. Like it
or not, you're giving a helping hand with this country's destruction.
You like spending your sunset years watching this country you helped
build to greatness going to hell?

That back handed slander is not worth responding to.

Also, if you haven't looked, the Democrat party is also a party of
rich white old men. Look who's president.

Take a look at Congress. According to the link below:

https://www.statista.com/chart/18905/us-congress-by-race-ethnicity/

The Senate Republicans are 45 white and 4 minority,
but Senate Democrats are 43 white and 8 minority.
The House Republicans are 199 white and 26 minority,
but House Democrats are 111 white and 105 minority.

That shows that the Democratic Party in Congress has a large share of
minority representation.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 10:25:27, 30 May 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
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The news of any kind rarely gives the number of a bill, but rather just what the effect is. Texas and Georgia passed laws that have the effect
of making it harder for minorities to vote. Some of the tools are reducing the days for voting, reducing the number of ballot boxes, and even things that make it harder to wait in line at a polling place --
e.g. a crime to give water to those in line.

Again show me the bills or current laws that exist.
I believe what is happening here is the use of a liberal lens to find fault when in reality there is really nothing to gripe about.

If you can not show me the bills or current laws, that support what you have alleged then explain what you mean by making it harder for minorities to vote, is it schedules or distance or is it that they give up because they do not have the ambition or focus but then proclaim that they are unfairly being treated. I think when the facts are known it will turn out to be a whole lot of nothing.

Alternative Genders other then Boy or Girl should have no

place within any house of education.

There are times when a youth is struggeling with their sexual identity.

Being blunt as it refers to biology.
If you have a penis then you're a boy, if you have a vagina then you're a girl. What is so complex about that?

Do we really need to hear about females chopping off their breasts and have gender altering surgery, all concealed by the way from their parents.
It sounds to me like they should have their heads examined and leave the breasts and the other bits alone.

Thanks for the pointer to a list of banned books. I can agree that many of those books are not something that should be taught. However, there are some that should be available for youth who are trying to wrestle
with their identity.

Their identity? We should be more concerned with the head and what is going on between the ears.

Banning "To Kill a Mockingbird" is ridiculous, but why, is it on the

Agreed.

Awesome.

My explanation sounds like a perfect explanation to me, if it is not to you then, what other explanation would you provide?

I'll tell you something else as well we do not need men dressing up in womens lingerie reading to children, in drag-queen story hour. How sick and twisted is that? If men want to dress up (or dress-down as it were) in the privacy of there own home and even order from the Fredericks of Hollywood catalog and or visit the mall to get into silky sexy outfits from Victoria Secret then go ahead, still fu*ked up but at least they are not bothering anyone.
But it doesn't stop there these people want others to see them, they want to be edgy and have chosen this so called freedom of expression movement along the democratic political lines and avenues to provide steam behind their sick and twisted desires. When this doesn't go their way, these people form into violent tranz rallies causing civil unrest with what used to called as unheard of.

I do not agree with your premise there.

I have provided a explanation, if you can do better then please do tell.

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_[]_³³Äij³ ³TROY³ ³HUB³ ³ Fidonet ³ ³FSX Net³ ºS I N C Eº ³Another Message³
{ NET 267 ³ ³ NY ³ ³800³ ³1:267/150³ ³21:1/127³ º 1 9 9 5 º ³ by Gregory ³ / 00ÄÄÄÄ00'Ù¨À0ÄÄ0Ù¨À0Ä0Ù¨ÀÄ00ÄÄÄ00ÄÙ¨ÀÄ00ÄÄ00ÄÙ¨ÈÍ00ÍÍÍ00ͼ¨ÀÄÄÄ00ÄÄÄÄÄÄ00ÄÄÙ

... Still waitng for that Coffee :)

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Capital Station BBS * Telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)

I agree with this and the other examples you stated. My point is that
they are being over zealous in what they are banning. There are a few
books in the list Gregory pointed to that are serious works and should
not be banned.

I don't disagree with that. It is indeed a over-reaction, which was
triggered by an over-action.

There are several books we read when I was in school that I am certain
would be considered offensive to someone. There was usually a moral or a
point to be made regarding the potentially-offensive behaviors, and I
enjoyed reading many (but not all) of them. I suspect I am better for
reading some of them.

They were not pornographic, however, and I think that should be a line that
is not crossed when it comes to making books available to those who are
less than 18 years old. Exposing them to things like that, that they do
not have the emotional maturity to comprehend, can be quite damaging.


* SLMR 2.1a * "You've stolen my soul!" - Granpa Simpson
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He's not as bad as Alan but he is a lifelong Democrat ...

Pretty much true, but since I have been able to vote I voted for a
Republican President 30% of the time, plus I voted for the Republican Governor of my state twice.

IIRC, several years ago there was a governor from your state that I was
looking foward to hearing more about. I don't think he lasted long enough
to be included in debate season, though. He sounded more "grounded" than
other candidates.


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Hello Greg,

[..]

Alternative Genders other then Boy or Girl should have no

place within any house of education.

There are times when a youth is struggeling with their sexual

identity.

[..]

Being blunt as it refers to biology.
If you have a penis then you're a boy, if you have a vagina then you're a girl. What is so complex about that?

If only biology was so simple.

There are fives sexes of man -
* male
* female
* pseudo hermaphrodite
* true hermaphrodite
* eunuch

I take it you know what that means.
Not everybody has a penis.
Not everybody has a vagina.
Some have both.
And some have neither.

There is also the matter of who, or what, they think they are.
The late David Bowie was the man who fell to Earth, never really
knowing who or what he was. But the world loved him, despite his
many faces.

Or maybe he really did know who and what he was, teasing his
audiences to answer that very question for themselves.

Do we really need to hear about females chopping off their breasts and have
gender altering surgery, all concealed by the way from their parents.
It sounds to me like they should have their heads examined and leave the breasts and the other bits alone.

Why should males, females, or trans be denied health insurance
for who and what they are? What a sick philosophy. Might as well
line people up on a wall and have them shot. It would be more
humane.

Thanks for the pointer to a list of banned books. I can agree that

many

of those books are not something that should be taught. However,

there

are some that should be available for youth who are trying to wrestle
with their identity.

Their identity? We should be more concerned with the head and what is going
on between the ears.

Donald Trump is a self-admitted sexual predator. One who enjoys
grabbing women by their pussies (by his own admission). Most people
know who and what he is. However, since he is a former president,
he will never spend a single day in prison - or a nuthouse.

He has already written one book - "The Art of the Deal" - and will
likely write another about his days as president. Will any of his
books be banned by any public library? Of course not. MAGA nutjobs
will see to that.

Banning "To Kill a Mockingbird" is ridiculous, but why, is it on

the

Agreed.

Awesome.

Censorship, in all its forms, is evil.

My explanation sounds like a perfect explanation to me, if it is not to you
then, what other explanation would you provide?

You are not the morality police. Maybe the mullahs in Iran like to
have them around in their country. But this is not Iran. And we do
not need, or want, such people around here, the good ol' US of A.

I'll tell you something else as well we do not need men dressing up in womens lingerie reading to children, in drag-queen story hour. How sick and
twisted is that?

You have never been to New Orleans during Lundi Gras, on Peter Street.
It is even more fun on Mardi Gras when everybody coes out showing their
stuff in broad daylight.

It takes a lot of work, and planning, along with cost, to create
a costume. And then the make-up. It is all very time consuming. As
well as time to practice the lines for making conversation with
those who come across your way. Especially when serving drinks to
customers (whether paying or not).

Dr. Frank 'N' Furter wasn't kidding when he sang the lines "I'm
just a sweet transvestite from transsexual Transylvania."

And lets not forget about his greatest creation - Rocky.

If men want to dress up (or dress-down as it were) in the privacy of there own home and even order from the Fredericks of Hollywood catalog and or visit the mall to get into silky sexy outfits from Victoria Secret then go ahead, still fu*ked up but at least they are not bothering anyone.

Everybody has loads of fun in New Orleans, doing their own thing.
And we do it all in public, with apologies to no one. Gays. Lesbians.
Trans. Straights. You name it. In broad daylight. In the middle of
the street. For all to see, and enjoy.

New Orleans is known as Party Town USA. You should come down here
sometime. And grab a beer, or whatever, and enjoy. Might even get to
see your beloved Jets play the Saints in the Superdome. We have some
really crazy fans dress up on game day ...

As well as a dog named Gumbo (a Saint Bernard).
We had him trained to pick up the tee after kickoffs.
But PETA made us stop, claiming it was animal cruelty.

But it doesn't stop there these people want others to see them, they want to
be edgy and have chosen this so called freedom of expression movement along
the democratic political lines and avenues to provide steam behind their sick and twisted desires. When this doesn't go their way, these people form
into violent tranz rallies causing civil unrest with what used to called as
unheard of.

I do not know of anybody ever getting hurt at any of our orgies.
Not even Prince (before he overdosed). He used to hang out at a club
in Gentilly. Nice guy.

I do not agree with your premise there.

I have provided a explanation, if you can do better then please do tell.

Come to Louisiana. Leave different.

For Life,
Lee

--
Impossible is nothing

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

On 05-30-23 11:47, Gregory Deyss <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: See what they do, no <=-

The news of any kind rarely gives the number of a bill, but rather just what the effect is. Texas and Georgia passed laws that have the effect
of making it harder for minorities to vote. Some of the tools are reducing the days for voting, reducing the number of ballot boxes, and even things that make it harder to wait in line at a polling place --
e.g. a crime to give water to those in line.

Again show me the bills or current laws that exist.

You can stand behind that mantra all you like, but you know your request
is not possible.

I believe what is happening here is the use of a liberal
lens to find fault when in reality there is really nothing
to gripe about.

You believe. I state facts. Big difference.

If you can not show me the bills or current laws, that
support what you have alleged then explain what you mean by
making it harder for minorities to vote, is it schedules or
distance or is it that they give up because they do not
have the ambition or focus but then proclaim that they are
unfairly being treated. I think when the facts are known it
will turn out to be a whole lot of nothing.

There have been all sorts of things done. One example was South Dakota removing all voters from the roles who did not have a valid street
address, knowing full well that such a requirement hit the native
Americans hard since many of them live on reservations that had no
street addresses. I have named other things. If you have not heard of
such things, then you need to expand your sources of knowledge.

Alternative Genders other then Boy or Girl should have no
place within any house of education.

There are times when a youth is struggeling with
their sexual identity.

Being blunt as it refers to biology.
If you have a penis then you're a boy, if you have a vagina
then you're a girl. What is so complex about that?

Perhaps that is your simplistic explanation -- but it is not always that simple. You are automatically excluding all who are part of the LBGTQ+ spectrum.

Do we really need to hear about females chopping off their
breasts and have gender altering surgery, all concealed by
the way from their parents.

Such would not be hidden from the parents, but with the support of the
parents *IF* that was the joint decision.

Thanks for the pointer to a list of banned books. I can agree that many of those books are not something that should be taught. However, there are some that should be available for youth who are trying to wrestle
with their identity.

Their identity? We should be more concerned with the head
and what is going on between the ears.

And by ignoring their struggles, we increase the amount of bullying, discrimination and suicide rate.

Banning "To Kill a Mockingbird" is ridiculous, but why, is it on the

Agreed.

Awesome.

I'll tell you something else as well we do not need men
dressing up in womens lingerie reading to children, in drag-
queen story hour. How sick and twisted is that? If men want
to dress up (or dress-down as it were) in the privacy of
there own home and even order from the Fredericks of
Hollywood catalog and or visit the mall to get into silky
sexy outfits from Victoria Secret then go ahead, still
fu*ked up but at least they are not bothering anyone.

You are confusing drag queens with cross dressers. As to drag queen
story hour for elementary school children, I have only recently heard of
this, nor heard why it is being done. I'll leave judgement until I hear information as to why the educators are allowing it.

I do not agree with your premise there.

I have provided a explanation, if you can do better then please do
tell.

You removed what I was responding to. Here it is:

banned list because these good for nothing liberal colleges are indoctrinating students as they are making them intolerant
to a book written from earlier time in history, editing
existing works is now underway as well.

I don't understand where you are getting such a statement. What do book
bans have to do with "liberal colleges"? How are they indoctrinating
students? Or the rest of your statements in that paragraph, none of
which make sense to me.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 01:14:31, 31 May 2022
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The news of any kind rarely gives the number of a bill, but rather just what the effect is. Texas and Georgia passed laws that have the effect of making it harder for minorities to vote. Some of the tools are reducing the days for voting, reducing the number of ballot boxes, and even things that make it harder to wait in line at a polling place -- e.g. a crime to give water to those in line.

Again show me the bills or current laws that exist.

You can stand behind that mantra all you like, but you know your request
is not possible.

If the laws have been passed in TX and GA, they should have numbers and
places to be cited from. Even if they were proposed and didn't pass, they likely have a number.

So, why is it not possible to produce what he is asking for?


* SLMR 2.1a * If you chose not to decide, you still have made a choice!
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On 05-30-23 15:37, Mike Powell <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: See what they do, no <=-

<<SNIP paragraphs in which Mike and I basically agree>>

They were not pornographic, however, and I think that should be a line that is not crossed when it comes to making books available to those
who are less than 18 years old. Exposing them to things like that,
that they do not have the emotional maturity to comprehend, can be
quite damaging.

I also agree with that. One problem is how does one define pornographic materials. Some have said it is in the eye of the beholder, others have
said I can't define it but I know it when I see it.

I can easily agree that many of the books on the list pointed to by
Gregory may well depict sexual acts which are certainly pornographic in
the mind of most people, and should not be readily available to minors.
There were other books there which are classical works of aclaim and for
which there is no real reason to exclude them. In the middle ground are
books which discuss the problems that teens might have who suspect or
know that they fit somewhere in the LBGTQ+ spectrum. Letting those
teens read about others might let them come to grip with their feelings.
They might help cut down on the amount of teen suicide coming as a
result of not dealing with those feelings.

It is that middle ground where the real discussion should be taking
place on a case by case basis.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 00:57:32, 01 Jun 2022
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On 05-30-23 16:16, Mike Powell <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: See what they do, no <=-

He's not as bad as Alan but he is a lifelong Democrat ...

Pretty much true, but since I have been able to vote I voted for a Republican President 30% of the time, plus I voted for the Republican Governor of my state twice.

IIRC, several years ago there was a governor from your state that I
was looking foward to hearing more about. I don't think he lasted long enough to be included in debate season, though. He sounded more "grounded" than other candidates.

I did vote for him both times he ran. Recently, he made a statement
that he was not going to put his hat into the Presidential race. I
believe his point was that too many very low polling candidates would
allow Donald Trump to obtain the majority of the delegates. He wanted
to see some Republican surface who might present a real challenge to
Trump (and by implication to DeSantis). I have yet to see such a
candidate.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)



... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 01:04:26, 01 Jun 2022
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On 05-31-23 15:25, Mike Powell <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: See what they do, no <=-

Again show me the bills or current laws that exist.

You can stand behind that mantra all you like, but you know your request
is not possible.

If the laws have been passed in TX and GA, they should have numbers
and places to be cited from. Even if they were proposed and didn't
pass, they likely have a number.

So, why is it not possible to produce what he is asking for?

It is not possible because the news media does not usually publish bill
numbers and I do not have the means to find them out.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)



... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 01:39:07, 01 Jun 2022
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which there is no real reason to exclude them. In the middle ground are books which discuss the problems that teens might have who suspect or
know that they fit somewhere in the LBGTQ+ spectrum. Letting those
teens read about others might let them come to grip with their feelings.
They might help cut down on the amount of teen suicide coming as a
result of not dealing with those feelings.

I suspect, if we stay on the path we are now, the suicides of young persons
who are on the spectrum will be replaced by those who were convinced they needed permanent changes made to their bodies only to realize later that
they may want to carry children.

It is that middle ground where the real discussion should be taking
place on a case by case basis.

Yes. Part of the issue is who does the discussing. You any I could
probably come to agreements on what is or is not pornographic, but we might well have to work with people who think the previously mentioned books that illustrates underaged people performing sex acts is not porn because the illustrations are "cartoon-like" and, besides, if you are against showing
that you are automatically "phobic."

Books that discuss how the teens are feeling, the social and psychological aspects, etc., are quite different than illustrated how-tos masquarading as fiction for confused teens. We both seem to understand that difference.


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I did vote for him both times he ran. Recently, he made a statement
that he was not going to put his hat into the Presidential race. I
believe his point was that too many very low polling candidates would
allow Donald Trump to obtain the majority of the delegates. He wanted
to see some Republican surface who might present a real challenge to
Trump (and by implication to DeSantis). I have yet to see such a
candidate.

There are multiple candidates that I like so far, but I cannot disagree
that watering down the primaries with too many is not going to prevent a rematch of 2020 in the general election.


* SLMR 2.1a * "My eyeballs nearly popped out!"
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It is not possible because the news media does not usually publish bill numbers and I do not have the means to find them out.

Our local media often mentions bill numbers when it comes to proposed
Kentucky laws.

Looks like Florida has the following website:

www.flsenate.gov

I did a google search on "Florida new legislation 2023" and got that
link. The more specific flsenate.gov link that came up -- titled "2023 bill summaries" -- breaks down the legislation that passed both house and senate based on subject, and there are several listed under "Ethics and Elections."

That same site should give you information on previous years, if the legislation was not new this year.

The same search, with "texas" substituted for "florida" did not yield quite
the same results. It did list several articles but not the official state site. A different search might bring up better results.


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On 06-01-23 15:30, Mike Powell <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: See what they do, no <=-

It is that middle ground where the real discussion should be taking
place on a case by case basis.

Yes. Part of the issue is who does the discussing. You any I could probably come to agreements on what is or is not pornographic, but we might well have to work with people who think the previously mentioned books that illustrates underaged people performing sex acts is not porn because the illustrations are "cartoon-like" and, besides, if you are against showing that you are automatically "phobic."

Agreed.

Books that discuss how the teens are feeling, the social and
psychological aspects, etc., are quite different than illustrated
how-tos masquarading as fiction for confused teens. We both seem to understand that difference.

Exactly.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


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