Hello Everybody,

Give the Devil his due, as he sure does know how to get his way.
At least, according to Vatican Secretary of State Cardinal Pietro
Parolin (in reference to Hamas and the IDF in Gaza) -

"The two situations certainly have in common the fact that they have dangerously widened beyond any acceptable limit, that they cannot be
resolved, that they have repercussions in different countries, and
that no solution can be found without serious negotiation."

Does the Israeli Prime Minister negotiate with terrorists?
Does the leader of Hamas negotiate with terrorists?
Does the President of the United States negotatiate with terrorists?
Does any other leader in the world negoatiate with terrorists?

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Who is to say who is fighting for freedom, and who is fighting
for something else? What exactly qualifies as "freedom? Is it
"freedom of" or "freedom from"? Perhaps it is none of the above,
as freedom could be just another word for nothing left to lose.

Cardinal Parolin claims warring parties should have "the courage
to negotiate, which is never to surrender." His words, not mine.
Of course, he is mimicking what Pope Francis has said the other
day, expressing his own desire for Ukraine to "raise the white
flag" - without expressly telling Ukrainians to surrender their
own land to Mother Russia.

Carinal Parolin then went on to say which side should raise the
white flag first, as "It should be the aggressors who cease fire
first and then the opening of negotiations."

Oh, my. Russia invades Crimea (a part of Ukraine) in 2014. And
then claimed Crimea as part of its own land. With no negotiations
at all with any other country. And then, Russia went back for more,
in 2022, invading more sections of Ukraine. With no negotiations
with any other country.

And still, Cardinal Parolin continues his mantra, claiming "...
negoatiating is not weakness but strength. It's not surrender but
courage."

My, my. The Vatican Secretary of State most certainly is deluded.
So is the Pope, who is always dressed in white, as if to make himself
appear innocent of all that is going on around him.

It doesn't take much research to find out when and where the white
flag principle began. It has been around for centuries, in various
cultures around the world. Easily understood by all what it means.

In fact, the white flag was written into the Geneva Conventions
in the 19th century as the official international symbol of surrender.
So how could the Vatican Secretary of State, and the Pope, not know
the very basic of the meaning of the white flag? It means SURRENDER!

According to the Geneva Conventions, it is illegal to feign surrender
with a white flag. Can anybody in their right mind imagine any warring
party faking it in order to keep themselves from getting slaughtered?

The Pope and all his Swiss Guards must be mad. Truly mad. Stalin
was right when he asked the question - "How many battalions does the
pope have?"

Now we know why the Pope never excommunicated Hitler.

The white flag is still the international standard and it is used
both in combat situations and popular culture. So when did it come
to mean something other than "surrender"?

For Life,
Lee

--
You can tell Monopoly is an old game because there's a luxury tax and rich people can go to jail.

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hi, Lee Lofaso!
I read your message from 13.03.2024 06:36

LL> It doesn't take much research to find out when and where the
LL> white flag principle began. It has been around for centuries,
LL> in various cultures around the world. Easily understood by all
LL> what it means.
LL> In fact, the white flag was written into the Geneva Conventions
LL> in the 19th century as the official international symbol of
LL> surrender. So how could the Vatican Secretary of State, and the
LL> Pope, not know ??the very basic of the meaning of the white
LL> flag? It means SURRENDER!

Surrender can be different. If less idiots have been in Kiev they could
have ordered the Ukrainian army not to do a single shot. And Russian
troops also would have no reasons to shoot. It would have been a funny situation when Russian troops could let defile along Ukrainian roads
having behind, on the right, on left the Ukrainian guns constantly
connected with Russian army temple. It could have been a funny bloodless
war company in humans history, and the resolution of the conflict could
be found peacefully, especially while it was perfectly obvious that
making slaves from Ukrainians was not Russia's aim... Well, if less
idiots have been in Kiev... who valued human lives of Ukrainians.

Bye, Lee!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2024
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Alexander,

It's good to see you're alive and doing well...

And Russian troops also would have no reasons to shoot.

Russian troops, as it was, had no reason to start firing in the first place, it was them that did and the only thing they had coming their way was defensive fire.

... especially while it was perfectly obvious that
making slaves from Ukrainians was not Russia's aim...

Hmmm ... you must've seen the Russian version of FoxNews.

Putin has repeatedly declared that the Ukrainian state had no historical reason for being, it should be wiped away ... erased from the pages of history ... Military annexation in several steps ... first Crimea to see how the West would react, then Ukraine, then the Baltic states. then Poland...

The only reason how Donald Trump could become elected was Russian intervention because Putin knew he was a hidden ally, and it was all part of the grand scheme ... and it continues ....

The Americans need to understand their Presidential elections this year are not about who's the better President for the USA (because ... really ... nobody is served well by gerontocracy) ... it's about the de-stabilisation of NATO, undermining the upport and survival of Ukraine and enabling the expansionist dreams of a handful of egoists in Moscow.

Slaves? You have become the slave .. sir.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20230201
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Hello, alexander!

Thursday March 14 2024 08:59, you wrote to Lee Lofaso:

Surrender can be different. If less idiots have been in Kiev they

BTW, you live in a city where people are even forbidden to vote for their own mayor because they are so stupid that they cannot make any smart decisions ;)

I think it's fair enough - all smart guys moved to Moscow and you follow their orders without the slightest hint of doubt because you know - you would have made many mistakes on your own.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20230304
* Origin: All is good in St. John's Wood (2:5001/100.1)

Hello Alexander,

It doesn't take much research to find out when and where the
white flag principle began. It has been around for centuries,
in various cultures around the world. Easily understood by all
what it means.

Easily understood is a claim, but not an empty one. Which type
of claim makes all the difference in the world. Which is why there
are only three of them (in someone else's territory) -
* a legal claim
* an emotional claim
* an accidental claim

So which type of claim(s) are all these differing warring parties
talking about? Could be all of them for all we know.

In fact, the white flag was written into the Geneva Conventions
in the 19th century as the official international symbol of
surrender. So how could the Vatican Secretary of State, and the
Pope, not know ??the very basic of the meaning of the white
flag? It means SURRENDER!

Surrender can be different.

In an interview recorded last month with Swiss broadcaster RSI
the Pope used the phrase "the courage of the white flag" as he
argued in favor of Ukraine throwing in the towel in surrender
to its nemesis - without saying out loud who that nemesis is.

If less idiots have been in Kiev they could have ordered the Ukrainian army
not to do a single shot.

The Vatican Secretary of State tried to clarify the Pope's
remarks by blaming it all on Russia, knowing full well that
no Russian soldier worth his salt would ever open fire on
innocent men, women, children, and babies. Idiots, maybe.
Except only by mistake.

And then he went on to blame both Hamas and Israel for causing
the mess in Gaza, claiming both sides should surrender.

Sometimes I wonder about the sanity of theologians.

And Russian troops also would have no reasons to shoot.

That is the truth. The whole truth. And nothing but the truth.

It would have been a funny situation when Russian troops could let defile along Ukrainian roads having behind, on the right, on left the Ukrainian guns constantly connected with Russian army temple.

They rolled out the red carpet in Hollywood the other night
for the Oscar Awards. With a comedian from Ukraine leading the
way. Won the award for best documentary about a town that no
longer exists.

It could have been a funny bloodless war company in humans history, and the
resolution of the conflict could be found peacefully,

The film "Oppenheimer" also won a bunch of awards. But Opie wanted
a different ending, with a demonstration to show the Emperor his true intentions were far different from what Harry Truman wanted. What
Harry Truman wanted was gooks going up in a giant fireball.

especially while it was perfectly obvious that making slaves from Ukrainians
was not Russia's aim...

What was the purpose of dropping two atomic bombs on Japanese
cities? How many innocents lost their lives as a result? Truman
hated Asians. Especially Japanese. But that was not his main
reason. Nobody wants to say it, but we all know the real reason.

Hint: The Japanese military had offered a total surrender a full
month before atomic bombs were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki,

Well, if less idiots have been in Kiev... who valued human lives of Ukrainians.

"Many young people, many young people go to die (in war). Let's
pray to the Lord to give us the grace to overcome this madness of
war, which is always a defeat." ~Pope Francis, 13 March 2024

Russian President Vladimir Putin then contratulated Pope Francis
on the 11th anniversary of his election as pope.

For Life,
Lee

--
GOP thinks banning guns won't elminate guns.
GOP thinks banning abortion will elininate abortions.

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

x) Thursday Mar 14, 2024, 08:59. alexander koryagin ÄÄ Lee Lofaso.

It doesn't take much research to find out when and where the
white flag principle began. It has been around for centuries,
in various cultures around the world. Easily understood by all
what it means.
In fact, the white flag was written into the Geneva Conventions
in the 19th century as the official international symbol of
surrender. So how could the Vatican Secretary of State, and the
Pope, not know ??the very basic of the meaning of the white
flag? It means SURRENDER!

Surrender can be different. If less idiots have been in Kiev they could have ordered the Ukrainian army not to do a single shot.

If less idiots have been in Kremlin they could have ordered the Russian army not to enter Crimea and other parts of Ukraine in 2014...

--- Neon BBS Line 2, 570-57-80, 20:30-06:30. [bbs.ncc.org.ua]
* Origin: Neon_#2, Kiev, Ukraine (2:463/877)

Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 14.03.2024 11:16

WD> It's good to see you're alive and doing well...

The same can be said to FIDO in general. ;)

ak>> And Russian troops also would have no reasons to shoot.

WD> Russian troops, as it was, had no reason to start firing in the
WD> first place, it was them that did and the only thing they had
WD> coming their way was defensive fire.

I have told you my point of view. For the new Ukrainian authority there
were two variants. Do as I had said -- just follow invaded Russian
troops, do not fight with them and save army, save hundreds of thousands
of human lives, don't obey Putin's orders of course. As the second
variant -- for those who forgot what a war is -- to fight with Russia as
a ram does with an iron gates, until the end, without any hope to defeat
this country, and lose hundreds of thousands people.

For the first variant Ukrainian president must be a shrewd person, not a
fool psychopath. Although, the clown is always such a person. And people
must know it when they elect such people to power.

ak>> ... especially while it was perfectly obvious that making slaves
ak>> from Ukrainians was not Russia's aim...

WD> Hmmm... you must've seen the Russian version of FoxNews.

The defence of people in Russian part of Ukraine (its east and south),
who has not accepted the unlawful coup in Kiev in 2014 has still been
the main aim of Russia. These people have had full right do not
recognize the new Kiev's authority and fight for their infringed rights.
They have Putin as a defender, they have no choice if they hope to
continue speaking Russian and be Russians. Nationality is a property of
soul, not the place of birth or orders.

WD> Putin has repeatedly declared that the Ukrainian state had no
WD> historical reason for being, it should be wiped away... erased from
WD> the pages of history... Military annexation in several steps...

Everything was OK until nationalists violently came to power in 2014.
Until that date the relations between Ukraine and Russia were OK and
nobody could imagine the war, even in nightmare. Violence caused violence.

WD> first Crimea to see how the West would react, then Ukraine, then
WD> the Baltic states. then Poland...

As for other states Russia has no motive and reason to attack them,
unless these countries hold military aggression towards Russia.

WD> The only reason how Donald Trump could become elected was Russian
WD> intervention because Putin knew he was a hidden ally, and it was
WD> all part of the grand scheme... and it continues....

Old fairy tales of democrats. Slender and dirt in a usual way of
political fight. I don't defend Trump. For me an old infirm fellow is
safe and better for the world than aggressive person with unstable
mentality, who looks like a kettle about to boil.

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2024
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Alex Shuman!
I read your message from 15.03.2024 03:46

LL>>> It doesn't take much research to find out when and where the
LL>>> white flag principle began. It has been around for centuries, in
LL>>> various cultures around the world. Easily understood by all what
LL>>> it means. In fact, the white flag was written into the Geneva
LL>>> Conventions in the 19th century as the official international
LL>>> symbol of surrender. So how could the Vatican Secretary of State,
LL>>> and the Pope, not know?? the very basic of the meaning of the
LL>>> white flag? It means SURRENDER!
ak>> Surrender can be different. If less idiots have been in Kiev they
ak>> could have ordered the Ukrainian army not to do a single shot.

AS> If less idiots have been in Kremlin they could have ordered the
AS> Russian army not to enter Crimea and other parts of Ukraine in
AS> 2014...

Violation of law -- that is the main reason of the present day havoc in Ukraine. It is a lesson for all the world.
Lawful, elected President of Ukraine had been outthrown by the mob,
despite the fact that the majority of Ukrainians elected him. This event
could not pass without consequence. As I said before here -- the people
who elected the outthrown President from Crimea, southern and eastern
Ukraine had full right to be outraged, do not accept new authority in
Kiev and even fight against it, especially when they became the target
of the military suppression by the Ukrainian army. Russia could not stay
away, whoever was in power there, unless it lost conscience and proud
not defending those Russians in Ukraine.

Bye, Alex!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Alex,

Lawful, elected President of Ukraine had been outthrown by the mob,

The Tsar was thrown out by the mob ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20230201
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

x) Friday Mar 15, 2024, 09:44. alexander koryagin ÄÄ Alex Shuman.

Surrender can be different. If less idiots have been in Kiev they
could have ordered the Ukrainian army not to do a single shot.

If less idiots have been in Kremlin they could have ordered the
Russian army not to enter Crimea and other parts of Ukraine in
2014...

Lawful, elected President of Ukraine had been outthrown by the mob,

No, it was revolution, after he ran away from his people.

could not pass without consequence. As I said before here -- the people who elected the outthrown President from Crimea, southern and eastern Ukraine had full right to be outraged, do not accept new authority in
Kiev and even fight against it, especially when they became the target
of the military suppression by the Ukrainian army.

It was not the native people, it was paramilitary Russian groups, then Russian army.

Russia could not stay away, whoever was in power there, unless it
lost conscience and proud not defending those Russians in Ukraine.

They could have just accepted all those Russians back, not to invade foreign country.

--- Neon BBS Line 2, 570-57-80, 20:30-06:30. [bbs.ncc.org.ua]
* Origin: Neon_#2, Kiev, Ukraine (2:463/877)

Hello, alexander!

Friday March 15 2024 09:25, you wrote to Ward Dossche:

I have told you my point of view. For the new Ukrainian authority

You only say what the Russian state allows, otherwise you will be arrested for your statements in Fidonet, will be beaten for a long time during interrogations, and you may die in prison. That's all there is to know about the supporters of Russian politics in Ukraine.

You cannot even accept that Russian army invaded Eastern Urkaine in 2014 - because Russians police is not just beating prisoners, they like to rape prisoners using some handy stick.

Our country became a madman's dream :(

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20230304
* Origin: All is good in St. John's Wood (2:5001/100.1)

Hi, Alex Shuman!
I read your message from 15.03.2024 21:17

ak>>>> Surrender can be different. If less idiots have been in Kiev
ak>>>> they could have ordered the Ukrainian army not to do a single
ak>>>> shot.
AS>>> If less idiots have been in Kremlin they could have ordered the
AS>>> Russian army not to enter Crimea and other parts of Ukraine in
AS>>> 2014...
ak>> Lawful, elected President of Ukraine had been outthrown by the
ak>> mob,

AS> No, it was revolution, after he ran away from his people.

"Revolution" is another word for "coup" or mutiny. BTW, the attempt of
capture the Capitol, after Trump losing the elections, is very similar
event and is considered in the USA as a heavy crime. Again, we can note,
that for some people in the USA it was not a crime. Similarily, the
Ukrainian nationalists from western Ukraine don't think they commit a
crime. But as a rule every revolution causes a civil war.

Again and again -- law is very important! Yushchenko won Ukrainian
president elections in 2005 (defeating Yanukovich), and then _everybody_
in Ukraine excepted it. Because it was a legal event. Russia also had no motive to to interfere.

ak>> could not pass without consequence. As I said before here -- the
ak>> people who elected the outthrown President from Crimea, southern
ak>> and eastern Ukraine had full right to be outraged, do not accept
ak>> new authority in Kiev and even fight against it, especially when
ak>> they became the target of the military suppression by the
ak>> Ukrainian army.

AS> It was not the native people, it was paramilitary Russian groups,
AS> then Russian army.

Protasov told me about a group of 50 paramilitaries who entered Ukraine
then. But it was in vain, unless local people fight also. As for the
real Russian army -- it was not in Donbass until 2022 because there are
no reports it used aviation, long range rockets as it does now. It is
funny to think than somebody sends his army to somewhere and prohibits
it using heavy weapon.

ak>> Russia could not stay away, whoever was in power there, unless it
ak>> lost conscience and proud not defending those Russians in Ukraine.

AS> They could have just accepted all those Russians back, not to
AS> invade foreign country.

If to be true, it must be said that during the USSR time at least 40
percent people in Ukraine were Russian people. After Ukraine became independent they were ordered ;-) to consider themselves as Ukrainians
and it was the shame and a time bomb. In short it is a crazy idea to
suggest to millions of Russians in Ukraine go to Russia. They live on
their own land and defend it.

Bye, Alex!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2024
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* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 16.03.2024 00:41

DP> You cannot even accept that Russian army invaded Eastern
DP> Urkaine in 2014 - because Russians police is not just beating
DP> prisoners, they like to rape prisoners using some handy stick.
DP> Our country became a madman's dream :(

When I said about idiots in Ukraine I meant another thing. If you were a
silly school boy I would explain it like this:

Suppose two boxers are fighting (in the street, no referee). The first
boxer is twice as heavy to the second one and also has twice longer
hands (and twice bigger fists). So, in which way must fight the second
smaller boxer?

If the second boxer is a fucking idiot (like Zelensky) he will fight the
same direct infighting as the big boxer does. The smaller boxer will be covered with blood, bruises, amputated limbs and brain concussion.

But a clever little boxer (not a fucking idiot) will not infighting with
the big boxer. He will round him as a horse-fly or as a crazy little
dog, bite the bigger one from all sides not putting his mug under big
boxers blows.

That's how Ukraine should have treated Russian invasion. Then no
destroyed cities, no hundreds of thousands killed, no millions invalids.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2024
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hello, alexander!

Monday March 18 2024 09:30, you wrote to me:

You cannot even accept that Russian army invaded Eastern
Urkaine in 2014 - because Russians police is not just beating
prisoners, they like to rape prisoners using some handy stick.
Our country became a madman's dream :(

When I said about idiots in Ukraine I meant another thing. If you were

Since you believe in all the bullshit that Putin says on our state TV, I presume that for you, 'idiot' means something different, like 'an idiot is a person who doesn't believe Russian propaganda.

a silly school boy I would explain it like this:

Since you are unaware of the Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2014, it appears you know very little about our country. Why is that?
You don't even have time to read books written by Russians who participated in that invasion

Suppose two boxers are fighting (in the street, no referee). The first
boxer is twice as heavy to the second one and also has twice longer
hands (and twice bigger fists). So, in which way must fight the
second smaller boxer?

If the second boxer is a fucking idiot (like Zelensky) he will fight

Probably you've never participated in street fights, that's why you are so naive!
Street fight is a very different thing where weight is not always that important.

the same direct infighting as the big boxer does. The smaller boxer
will be covered with blood, bruises, amputated limbs and brain
concussion.

If you encounter our cannibal-heroes who have been pardoned by presidents, they might eat your body parts too.
Russia now resembles a nightmarish circus, where cannibals are hailed as heroes and child molesters are employed in schools because they have killed some Ukrainians in this war.

That's how Ukraine should have treated Russian invasion. Then no
destroyed cities, no hundreds of thousands killed, no millions
invalids.

They'd better do what they want without advice from people who are foolish enough to be barred even from electing their mayor.
Just always follow the orders from Moscow, that's your choice :)

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20230304
* Origin: All is good in St. John's Wood (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, alexander!

Monday March 18 2024 09:11, you wrote to Alex Shuman:

It was not the native people, it was paramilitary Russian
groups, then Russian army.

Protasov told me about a group of 50 paramilitaries who entered
Ukraine then. But it was in vain, unless local people fight also. As
for the real Russian army -- it was not in Donbass until 2022 because

That's pathetic! I even personally know people who participated in that invasion with the Russian army in September 2014.
Yet it was limited because Putin feared international sanctions.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20230304
* Origin: All is good in St. John's Wood (2:5001/100.1)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 18.03.2024 10:19


DP> Since you believe in all the bullshit that Putin says on our state
DP> TV, I presume that for you, 'idiot' means something different,
DP> like 'an idiot is a person who doesn't believe Russian propaganda.

If you have not understood me, read my message about fucking idiots in
Kiev once more.

ak>> a silly school boy I would explain it like this:
DP> Since you are unaware of the Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2014,
DP> it appears you know very little about our country. Why is that? You
DP> don't even have time to read books written by Russians who
DP> participated in that invasion

Don't tell rubbish. When the USA wanted to defend Albanians in Serbia
they did military actions against Serbian troops and they didn't ask
anybody for the permission, and spit at the world opinion. Russia in a
similar way defended Russians in Ukraine who fought against the new
unlawful power in Kiev after 2014. Russians are majority in eastern and southern Ukraine regions and they want to separate from Ukraine, as
Albanians wanted to separate from Serbia.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2024
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Alexander,

Don't tell rubbish. When the USA wanted to defend Albanians in Serbia
they did military actions against Serbian troops and they didn't ask anybody for the permission, and spit at the world opinion.

Actually, was that not a UN-intervention mandated by the Security Council?

Two of my cousins, Belgian nationality, served on those missions ...

Russia in a
similar way defended Russians in Ukraine who fought against the new unlawful power in Kiev after 2014.

So you now agree there "were" Russian military active in the Donbass from 2014 onwards ...

Russians are majority in eastern and
southern Ukraine regions and they want to separate from Ukraine,...

To my knowledge they were, and still are, citizens of the democratic autonomous country of Ukraine ... That's where the buck seems to stop.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20230201
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 19.03.2024 09:29

ak>> Don't tell rubbish. When the USA wanted to defend Albanians
ak>> in Serbia they did military actions against Serbian troops
ak>> and they didn't ask anybody for the permission, and spit at
ak>> the world opinion.
WD>
WD> Actually, was that not a UN-intervention mandated by the
WD> Security Council?
WD> Two of my cousins, Belgian nationality, served on those
WD> missions ...

;-) Do you beleive that the attack was on the agenda of the Security
Council and Russia and Chine approved it and did not vetoed it?

PS: western lying propaganda

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2024
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Alexander,

Actually, was that not a UN-intervention mandated by the
Security Council?
Two of my cousins, Belgian nationality, served on those
missions ...

;-) Do you beleive that the attack was on the agenda of the Security Council and Russia and Chine approved it and did not vetoed it?

PS: western lying propaganda

My dear friend, you have just demonstrated you have no clue what you are talking about.

If Russia and/or China had vetoed the intervention, it simply would not have happened. That's how the UN system works.

Listening to what my cousins had to say about it, it was not as clear-cut as your system is intending to make you believe ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20230201
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 20.03.2024 10:11

ak>>WD> Actually, was that not a UN-intervention mandated by
ak>> theWD> Security Council?
ak>>WD> Two of my cousins, Belgian nationality, served on
ak>> thoseWD> missions ...
WD>
ak>> ;-) Do you beleive that the attack was on the agenda of the
ak>> Security Council and Russia and Chine approved it and did
ak>> not vetoed it?
WD>
ak>> PS: western lying propaganda
WD>
WD> My dear friend, you have just demonstrated you have no clue
WD> what you are talking about.
WD> If Russia and/or China had vetoed the intervention, it simply
WD> would not have happened. That's how the UN system works.
WD> Listening to what my cousins had to say about it, it was not as
WD> clear-cut as your system is intending to make you believe ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia

-----Beginning of the citation-----
NATO countries attempted to gain authorisation from the UN Security
Council for military action, but were opposed by China and Russia, who indicated that they would veto such a measure. As a result, NATO
launched its campaign without the UN's approval, stating that it was a humanitarian intervention.
----- The end of the citation -----

Wiki is not a perfect source of course, but you cannot find anything on
this issue in official western propaganda. Otherwise people looked at
Russian operation in Ukraine at different angle. In short NATO's
operation in Serbia gave the precedent -- if you want to do it very much
do it and spit at others.

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2024
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Wiki is not a perfect source of course, but you cannot find anything on this issue in official western propaganda.

I haven't researched it but there probably are pages lauding Vladimir Putin for his visionary thinking and great ledership.

Wikipedia is full of errors ...

My cousins were there and they wore a blue UN-beret ... UN troops, not NATO.

Otherwise people looked at
Russian operation in Ukraine at different angle.

Hardly. Everybody sees it for what it is/was ... a violent unprovoked attack of a peaceful nation.

Any destabilisation in the region carries the name "Russia" in bold letters.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20230201
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 20.03.2024 18:35

ak>> Wiki is not a perfect source of course, but you cannot find
ak>> anything on this issue in official western propaganda.
WD>
WD> I haven't researched it but there probably are pages lauding
WD> Vladimir Putin for his visionary thinking and great ledership.
WD> Wikipedia is full of errors ...
WD>
WD> My cousins were there and they wore a blue UN-beret ... UN
WD> troops, not NATO.

;-)
In other words you have just said that there had been held a UN Security Council where Russia and China agreed to bomb Serbia. What a miserable lie.

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2024
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

In other words you have just said that there had been held a UN Security Council where Russia and China agreed to bomb Serbia. What a miserable
lie.

What I have said is that it has been debated in the Security Council, no resolution was voted upon, neither was one to oppose action. The political way-out was not to have one formally so no-one needed to show their true colours ... including Russia and China. They agreed to action without to formally lift a finger.

Other than that, we all know the effectiveness of the Security Council. As long as there will be rogue nations such as Russia, China and now Iran it will not work.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20230201
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 21.03.2024 10:53

ak>> In other words you have just said that there had been held a UN
ak>> Security Council where Russia and China agreed to bomb Serbia.
ak>> What a miserable lie.

WD> What I have said is that it has been debated in the Security
WD> Council, no resolution was voted upon, neither was one to oppose
WD> action.

;-))) However Russia and China had openly claimed they would veto the resolution about the military intervention -- you call it "no one was opposed". Ridiculous.

WD> The political way-out was not to have one formally so no-
WD> one needed to show their true colours... including Russia and
WD> China. They agreed to action without to formally lift a finger.

Russia and China just could do nothing. It is like nobody can do
anything to prevent killing thousands of children in Gaza by Israeli
troops. It is useless convene the Security Council on this issue -- the
US will veto any resolution to stop mass killings in Gaza.

WD> Other than that, we all know the effectiveness of the Security
WD> Council. As long as there will be rogue nations such as Russia,
WD> China and now Iran it will not work.

I will not discuss who are rogue countries, but it perfectly clear to me
that the western double standards in treating military crimes in Gaza
and Russian operation in Ukraine show clearly who is a hypocrite. I wish
you ("justice defenders") so that thousands killed Palestinian children
come to you in nightmare and point at you with their broken bloody fingers.

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2024
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

I will not discuss who are rogue countries, but it perfectly clear to me that the western double standards in treating military crimes in Gaza
and Russian operation in Ukraine show clearly who is a hypocrite. I wish you ("justice defenders") so that thousands killed Palestinian children come to you in nightmare and point at you with their broken bloody
fingers.

In that region the real problem is Iran fighting a number of proxy-wars via their armed militia known as Hamas, Hezbollah, Houti ... and now they are providing weapons to Russia ... It's not Saudi-Arabia, it's mot the Emirates ... remove Iran from the equation and the Middle-East violence stops...remove the clergy, disband the revolutionary guards and the violence stops.

As for the number of people killed ... show the corpses ... Just like that Russian airplane that crashed with so-called a hundred Ukrainian prisoners of war (with hardly a guard) ... show the corpses ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20230201
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Hi Ward,

22 Mrz 24 08:52, Ward Dossche schrieb an alexander koryagin:

I will not discuss who are rogue countries,

...

In that region the real problem is Iran fighting a number of

...

Why are you ignoring our own rules on FidoNet?

Personally, that just annoys me! :-(

This is the wrong place for your discussion!

Tschuesz,

Siggi

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5--b20170303
* Origin: Powert by *Fidian* > kuehlbox.wtf/fidian (2:240/1120.1210)

Siggi,

Why are you ignoring our own rules on FidoNet?

I don't determine the rules in this echo, someone else does, and that person knows that should he tell me to dimm it, I will.

Other than that, not recognising that Iran is waging a number of proxy wars in the Middle East might hurt your anus once you need to retrieve your head from it.

Take care,

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20230201
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

On 22 Mar 2024, Ward Dossche said the following...

Other than that, not recognising that Iran is waging a number of proxy wars in the Middle East might hurt your anus once you need to retrieve your head from it.

did one of these famous cousins of yours teach you that joke?

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
* Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (1:120/616)

Hello Ward,

I will not discuss who are rogue countries, but it perfectly clear to me
that the western double standards in treating military crimes in Gaza
and Russian operation in Ukraine show clearly who is a hypocrite. I wish
you ("justice defenders") so that thousands killed Palestinian children
come to you in nightmare and point at you with their broken bloody
fingers.

In that region the real problem is Iran fighting a number of proxy-wars via
their armed militia known as Hamas, Hezbollah, Houti ...

You are saying all Muslims, whether Shia or Sunni, are terrorists?
What about Christians, whether Catholic or Protestant? Are they also terrorists? What about Jews? Do they get an exemption?

and now they are providing weapons to Russia ...

Terrorists providing weapons to a criminal ruler of a criminal state
and people. That's a good one, Ward. Even for you.

It's not Saudi-Arabia, it's mot the Emirates ...

There are two million innocent men, women, and children in Gaza.
Many of them starving, including women who are pregnant. Well over
35,000 civilisns have been killed, so far, with far more who will
be joining them very soon. Over one million of those civilians are
fenced in Rafa, surrounded by Israeli troops, and will become part
of the rubble that will be made of what used to be a city.

And yet Saudi Arabia continues to refuse to allow any Palestinian
to seek refuge on their soil. The same with the Emirates and other
Arab states.

So please. Do not blame everything on the USA or Russia for causing
the fine mess created by your good friends in Israel.

remove Iran from the equation and the Middle-East violence stops...

Shia Muslims and Sunni Muslims have never been the best of friends.
Kind of like Catholics and Protestants. Only with lethal weapons.

remove the clergy,

An atheist world? Dream on, my friend. Dream on.

disband the revolutionary guards and the violence stops.

Palestinian kids love to throw rocks at soldiers. And tanks.
Have you ever taken a look at the size of those rocks? They are
exactly the same size as a major league baseball. And also the
exact same weight. Imagine the millions of dollars they could
make if they signed up as pitchers for tne Yankees or Astros ...

As for the number of people killed ... show the corpses ...

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Remember, corpses are
also counted as hostages ...

Just like that Russian airplane that crashed with so-called a hundred Ukrainian prisoners of war (with hardly a guard) ... show the corpses ...

The rumor mill must be in full swing in your part of the world.
Everybody knows that planes do not just fall out of the sky.
Kind of like people falling out of windows in tall buildings.

For Life,
Lee

--
GOP thinks banning guns won't elminate guns.
GOP thinks banning abortion will elininate abortions.

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Ward,

Why are you ignoring our own rules on FidoNet?

I don't determine the rules in this echo, someone else does, and that person
knows that should he tell me to dimm it, I will.

Same here.

Other than that, not recognising that Iran is waging a number of proxy wars
in the Middle East might hurt your anus once you need to retrieve your head
from it.

Oh, come now. You know better than that, as the president of Iran
is freely elected by his own people, with no real opposition. Kind
of like the guy in Russia, but with a Grand Ayatollah making sure
the president never makes any mistakes.

That is why the Ayatollah Khomeini released 52 Americans being
held hostage in Iran the day Ronald Reagan took office.

For Life,
Lee

--
GOP thinks banning guns won't elminate guns.
GOP thinks banning abortion will elininate abortions.

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

x) Monday Mar 18, 2024, 09:11. alexander koryagin ÄÄ Alex Shuman.

No, it was revolution, after he ran away from his people.

"Revolution" is another word for "coup" or mutiny.

It depends... This one was certainly people's will and not a military coup.

BTW, the attempt of
capture the Capitol, after Trump losing the elections, is very similar event and is considered in the USA as a heavy crime.

It because they were minority (most of people did not support their ways) and attacked government buildings instead of peaceful protest.

Again and again -- law is very important! Yushchenko won Ukrainian president elections in 2005 (defeating Yanukovich), and then _everybody_ in Ukraine excepted it. Because it was a legal event. Russia also had no motive to to interfere.

Then Yanukovich won, then people got tired of him and his anti-people politics, then Russia decided to interfere.

It was not the native people, it was paramilitary Russian groups,
then Russian army.

Protasov told me about a group of 50 paramilitaries who entered
Ukraine then. But it was in vain, unless local people fight also. As
for the real Russian army -- it was not in Donbass until 2022 because there are no reports it used aviation, long range rockets as it does
now. It is funny to think than somebody sends his army to somewhere
and prohibits it using heavy weapon.

Most of fighters were from Russia. They used Russian weapons.

Russia could not stay away, whoever was in power there, unless it
lost conscience and proud not defending those Russians in Ukraine.

They could have just accepted all those Russians back, not to
invade foreign country.

If to be true, it must be said that during the USSR time at least 40 percent people in Ukraine were Russian people. After Ukraine became independent they were ordered ;-) to consider themselves as Ukrainians
and it was the shame and a time bomb. In short it is a crazy idea to suggest to millions of Russians in Ukraine go to Russia. They live on their own land and defend it.

Well, they either could go to Russia or accept their Ukrainian citizenship, not to invite Russia to start a colonial war. Also, don't mix Russian-speaking people with Russian citizens.

--- Neon BBS Line 2, 570-57-80, 20:30-06:30. [bbs.ncc.org.ua]
* Origin: Neon_#2, Kiev, Ukraine (2:463/877)

x) Friday Mar 22, 2024, 09:24. alexander koryagin ÄÄ Ward Dossche.

I will not discuss who are rogue countries, but it perfectly clear to me that the western double standards in treating military crimes in Gaza
and Russian operation in Ukraine show clearly who is a hypocrite.

Well, both Hamas and Russia started it.

--- Neon BBS Line 2, 570-57-80, 20:30-06:30. [bbs.ncc.org.ua]
* Origin: Neon_#2, Kiev, Ukraine (2:463/877)

Hi, Alex Shuman!
I read your message from 26.03.2024 01:49

ak>> I will not discuss who are rogue countries, but it
ak>> perfectly clear to me that the western double standards in
ak>> treating military crimes in Gaza and Russian operation in
ak>> Ukraine show clearly who is a hypocrite.
AS>
AS> Well, both Hamas and Russia started it.

It has been started by the occupation of Palestinian lands long ago, if somebody suffers from senility. And every nation has right to fight with occupants, as they said me. When the occupant complains about nasty
partisans it sounds funny.

Bye, Alex!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2024
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Alex Shuman!
I read your message from 26.03.2024 01:54

AS>>> No, it was revolution, after he ran away from his people.
ak>> "Revolution" is another word for "coup" or mutiny.
AS> It depends... This one was certainly people's will and not a
AS> military coup.

It was the people's will... of the half of Ukraine. Or even less, taking
into account how many people elected Yanukovich. That's why another part
of Ukraine has not accepted this "will".

ak>> BTW, the attempt of capture the Capitol, after Trump losing the
ak>> elections, is very similar event and is considered in the USA as a
ak>> heavy crime.

AS> It because they were minority (most of people did not support their
AS> ways) and attacked government buildings instead of peaceful
AS> protest.

Minority! Trump is also supported by almost a half of Americans. And
most active of these people had come to the Capitol. If they had managed
to depose Biden and the Republican majority in Congress approved it --
it would have been the same situation as in Ukraine. And surely, many
American would not accept the coup which violate their choice.

ak>> Again and again -- law is very important! Yushchenko won Ukrainian
ak>> president elections in 2005 (defeating Yanukovich), and
ak>> then _everybody_ in Ukraine excepted it. Because it was a legal
ak>> event. Russia also had no motive to to interfere.

AS> Then Yanukovich won, then people got tired of him and his anti-
AS> people politics, then Russia decided to interfere.

Elections then were a perfectly legal way to dismiss President. And it
is funny to listen when somebody says about all the people, "They
tired"! ;-) And they made a revolution! It is funny to hear such an
agrument as the justification for the political coup in Ukraine -- then
the democratic country without any tyranny!!!

AS>>> It was not the native people, it was paramilitary Russian groups,
AS>>> then Russian army.
ak>> Protasov told me about a group of 50 paramilitaries who entered
ak>> Ukraine then. But it was in vain, unless local people fight also.
ak>> As for the real Russian army -- it was not in Donbass until 2022
ak>> because there are no reports it used aviation, long range rockets
ak>> as it does now. It is funny to think than somebody sends his army
ak>> to somewhere and prohibits it using heavy weapon.

AS> Most of fighters were from Russia. They used Russian weapons.

In Donbass the rebels captured military bases and got a lot of weapon.
Why does it sound incredible?

ak>>>> Russia could not stay away, whoever was in power there, unless
ak>>>> it lost conscience and proud not defending those Russians in
ak>>>> Ukraine.
AS>>> They could have just accepted all those Russians back, not to
AS>>> invade foreign country.
ak>> If to be true, it must be said that during the USSR time at least
ak>> 40 percent people in Ukraine were Russian people. After Ukraine
ak>> became independent they were ordered ;-) to consider themselves as
ak>> Ukrainians and it was the shame and a time bomb. In short it is a
ak>> crazy idea to suggest to millions of Russians in Ukraine go to
ak>> Russia. They live on their own land and defend it.

AS> Well, they either could go to Russia or accept their Ukrainian
AS> citizenship, not to invite Russia to start a colonial war. Also,
AS> don't mix Russian-speaking people with Russian citizens.

Ukraine could be a country both Ukrainians and Russians. And it could
prosper like Switzerland or Canada. To demand people to leave their own
land sounds nasty and ugly.

Bye, Alex!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2024
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Alex Shuman wrote to alexander koryagin <=-

BTW, the attempt of
capture the Capitol, after Trump losing the elections, is very similar event and is considered in the USA as a heavy crime.

It because they were minority (most of people did not support their
ways) and attacked government buildings instead of peaceful protest.

Showing up with a noose and threatening to hang the Vice President if
he didn't do the ex-president's bidding was a pretty serious issue.
Injuring and killing policemen means it was more than attacking
buildings.



--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

Dear Fido-friend,

Minority! Trump is also supported by almost a half of Americans. And
most active of these people had come to the Capitol. If they had managed
to depose Biden and the Republican majority in Congress approved it --
it would have been the same situation as in Ukraine. And surely, many American would not accept the coup which violate their choice.

I don't think you understand the US-state of mind very well.

There's a consitution there, a pretty impressive constitution that is very dear to the heart of Americans whether they ars Republican-leaning or Democrat.

Application of that Constitution is observed by the Supreme Court who rules upon it.

It's highly unlikely Biden would have been deposed Jan.20 2021, or not declared the President-elect because that would've ended in a civil war.

Troops already had been called-in and they are sworn to uphold the Constitution ...

Perhaps you should only talk about the things you understand ... whuich implies you should not raise your voice in here.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20230201
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

x) Tuesday Mar 26, 2024, 14:42. alexander koryagin ÄÄ Alex Shuman.

I will not discuss who are rogue countries, but it
perfectly clear to me that the western double standards in
treating military crimes in Gaza and Russian operation in
Ukraine show clearly who is a hypocrite.

Well, both Hamas and Russia started it.

It has been started by the occupation of Palestinian lands long ago,

No, it was actually started by British Empire after WW2, and their way to manage Hebrew-Arab relations in their Palestinian mandate. Then British left and Arabs attacked Hebrews (they did not like the estabilishing of a Hebrew sovereign state). Hebrews won. And it continues into our time.

if somebody suffers from senility. And every nation has right to
fight with occupants, as they said me. When the occupant complains
about nasty partisans it sounds funny.

The ones who target civilians are not partisans but terrorists.

--- Neon BBS Line 2, 570-57-80, 20:30-06:30. [bbs.ncc.org.ua]
* Origin: Neon_#2, Kiev, Ukraine (2:463/877)

x) Tuesday Mar 26, 2024, 15:28. alexander koryagin ÄÄ Alex Shuman.

No, it was revolution, after he ran away from his people.

"Revolution" is another word for "coup" or mutiny.

It depends... This one was certainly people's will and not a
military coup.

It was the people's will... of the half of Ukraine. Or even less, taking into account how many people elected Yanukovich. That's why another part of Ukraine has not accepted this "will".

Most of them accepted. Only a handful of paramilitaries did not.

Minority! Trump is also supported by almost a half of Americans. And
most active of these people had come to the Capitol. If they had managed to depose Biden and the Republican majority in Congress approved it --
it would have been the same situation as in Ukraine. And surely, many American would not accept the coup which violate their choice.

I mean, the ones who actually stormed the Capitol were a minority. And they commited crimes. On the other way, Maidan protests were mostly peaceful, until snipers began shooting random people (100+).

Then Yanukovich won, then people got tired of him and his anti-
people politics, then Russia decided to interfere.

Elections then were a perfectly legal way to dismiss President. And it
is funny to listen when somebody says about all the people, "They
tired"! ;-) And they made a revolution! It is funny to hear such an agrument as the justification for the political coup in Ukraine -- then the democratic country without any tyranny!!!

The actual problem was just before the revolution, introduction of "dictatorship laws" and attempt to turn Ukraine into a police state.

Most of fighters were from Russia. They used Russian weapons.

In Donbass the rebels captured military bases and got a lot of weapon.
Why does it sound incredible?

Most of weapons were smuggled from Russia border, though.

Well, they either could go to Russia or accept their Ukrainian
citizenship, not to invite Russia to start a colonial war. Also,
don't mix Russian-speaking people with Russian citizens.

Ukraine could be a country both Ukrainians and Russians.

Indeed, it was. Before Putin annexed Crimea then supported fighting in East Ukraine then officially invaded Ukraine. We had quite good relations with Russia till then.

--- Neon BBS Line 2, 570-57-80, 20:30-06:30. [bbs.ncc.org.ua]
* Origin: Neon_#2, Kiev, Ukraine (2:463/877)

Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 26.03.2024 18:24

ak>> Minority! Trump is also supported by almost a half of
ak>> Americans. And most active of these people had come to the
ak>> Capitol. If they had managed to depose Biden and the
ak>> Republican majority in Congress approved it -- it would
ak>> have been the same situation as in Ukraine. And surely,
ak>> many American would not accept the coup which violate their
ak>> choice.
WD>
WD> I don't think you understand the US-state of mind very well.
WD>
WD> There's a consitution there, a pretty impressive constitution
WD> that is very dear to the heart of Americans whether they ars
WD> Republican-leaning or Democrat.

It was not the case in Ukraine of 2014. The parliament which had at that moment nationalistic majority approved all that had done the mob.

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2024
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Alex Shuman!
I read your message from 26.03.2024 21:27

ak>> if somebody suffers from senility. And every nation has
ak>> right to fight with occupants, as they said me. When the
ak>> occupant complains about nasty partisans it sounds funny.
AS>
AS> The ones who target civilians are not partisans but terrorists.

Agreed. Have you said about the butchery of the civilians and thousands
of children in Gaza by Israeli bombing? ;-\

Bye, Alex!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2024
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Alex Shuman!
I read your message from 26.03.2024 21:37

AS>>> Well, they either could go to Russia or accept their
AS>>> Ukrainian citizenship, not to invite Russia to start a
AS>>> colonial war. Also, don't mix Russian-speaking people
AS>>> with Russian citizens.
ak>> Ukraine could be a country both Ukrainians and Russians.
AS>
AS> Indeed, it was. Before Putin annexed Crimea then supported
AS> fighting in East Ukraine then officially invaded Ukraine. We
AS> had quite good relations with Russia till then.

Do you still believe people of Crimea are/were loyal to Ukraine and they
never wanted to separate from it, after the coup in 2014?

You should understand a simple thing - the Ukraine breakdown in 2014 was
a perfect copy of the USSR breakdown after the coup in 1991. Extremists
had come to power and many the USSR regions didn't accept it and
claimed to be independent. Thanks to Gorbachev he didn't send troops to
save a "single and holy Soviet Union". Blood had been avoided.

In short, the people of Crimea had done what they had done only AFTER
the coup which was the trigger of all the havoc in Ukraine.

Bye, Alex!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2024
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

The ones who target civilians are not partisans but terrorists.

Agreed. Have you said about the butchery of the civilians and thousands
of children in Gaza by Israeli bombing? ;-\

The only confirmed numbers are the Israeli victims of the raid which caused all this.

The numbers of Hamas, unverified, are just as reliable as Putins ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20230201
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 27.03.2024 10:08

ak>> Agreed. Have you said about the butchery of the civilians
ak>> and thousands of children in Gaza by Israeli bombing? ;-\
WD>
WD> The only confirmed numbers are the Israeli victims of the raid
WD> which caused all this.
WD> The numbers of Hamas, unverified, are just as reliable as
WD> Putins ...

Multiple collapsed multy-story appartments as well as multiple mass
graves keep dead bodies well. For the he Hague trial. All people saw the criminal bombing in live reporting by Al-Jazira. Israel will answer for
its hideous crimes in Gaza. If you are a Jew you are a bad Jew defending
such a crime.

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2024
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Multiple collapsed multy-story appartments as well as multiple mass
graves keep dead bodies well.

It looks similar to what is happening in Ukaraine.

Civilian buildings and infrastructure under attack by the invasion forces contantly.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Multiple collapsed multy-story appartments as well as multiple mass
graves keep dead bodies well. For the he Hague trial. All people saw the criminal bombing in live reporting by Al-Jazira. Israel will answer for
its hideous crimes in Gaza. If you are a Jew you are a bad Jew defending such a crime.

The Hamas-numbers are irrealistic, simple. If not independently verified there's little value to be attached ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20230201
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

x) Wednesday Mar 27, 2024, 09:02. alexander koryagin ÄÄ Alex Shuman.

if somebody suffers from senility. And every nation has
right to fight with occupants, as they said me. When the
occupant complains about nasty partisans it sounds funny.

The ones who target civilians are not partisans but terrorists.

Agreed. Have you said about the butchery of the civilians and thousands
of children in Gaza by Israeli bombing? ;-\

I doubt Israel targeted civilians.

--- Neon BBS Line 2, 570-57-80, 20:30-06:30. [bbs.ncc.org.ua]
* Origin: Neon_#2, Kiev, Ukraine (2:463/877)

x) Wednesday Mar 27, 2024, 09:22. alexander koryagin ÄÄ Alex Shuman.

Well, they either could go to Russia or accept their
Ukrainian citizenship, not to invite Russia to start a
colonial war. Also, don't mix Russian-speaking people
with Russian citizens.

Ukraine could be a country both Ukrainians and Russians.

Indeed, it was. Before Putin annexed Crimea then supported
fighting in East Ukraine then officially invaded Ukraine. We
had quite good relations with Russia till then.

Do you still believe people of Crimea are/were loyal to Ukraine and they never wanted to separate from it, after the coup in 2014?

People - yes. Russian colonial government - no.

In short, the people of Crimea had done what they had done only AFTER
the coup which was the trigger of all the havoc in Ukraine.

It was not people, it was Russian army.

--- Neon BBS Line 2, 570-57-80, 20:30-06:30. [bbs.ncc.org.ua]
* Origin: Neon_#2, Kiev, Ukraine (2:463/877)

Hi, Alan Ianson!
I read your message from 28.03.2024 11:04

ak>> Multiple collapsed multy-story appartments as well as multiple
ak>> mass graves keep dead bodies well.

AI> It looks similar to what is happening in Ukaraine.

AI> Civilian buildings and infrastructure under attack by the invasion
AI> forces contantly.

Russian army has never bombed the civilian areas deliberately, at least
when people live there. The only real threat for civilians in Ukraine is
its air defence system which sometimes shots down Russia's rocket and
they fall down in the residential area. The reason is simple - bombing civilians in Kiev, Ukraine East and South contradicts the main Putin's paradigm for this war -- "liberation Russian people from Nazi".
Therefore Putin's army does all it can to prevent such strikes.

Another matter in Gaza - Jews consider Palestinians as inferior people
and they don't think long when they want to demolish another multi-story apartment noting a suspicious guy in the window.

Bye, Alan!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2024
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Hi, Alex Shuman!
I read your message from 28.03.2024 11:45

ak>>>> if somebody suffers from senility. And every
ak>>>> nation has right to fight with occupants, as they
ak>>>> said me. When the occupant complains about nasty
ak>>>> partisans it sounds funny.
AS>>> The ones who target civilians are not partisans but
AS>>> terrorists.
ak>> Agreed. Have you said about the butchery of the civilians
ak>> and thousands of children in Gaza by Israeli bombing? ;-\
AS>
AS> I doubt Israel targeted civilians.

A lot of journalists around the world have worked in Gaza. Many have
been killed by Israeli bombs thinking naive that if they are among
civilians or in hospitals they are safe. The accusation of Israel in
genocide has not been born of a empty place.

Bye, Alex!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2024
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Hi, Alex Shuman!
I read your message from 28.03.2024 11:49

ak>>>> Ukraine could be a country both Ukrainians and
ak>>>> Russians.
AS>>> Indeed, it was. Before Putin annexed Crimea then
AS>>> supported fighting in East Ukraine then officially
AS>>> invaded Ukraine. We had quite good relations with
AS>>> Russia till then.
ak>> Do you still believe people of Crimea are/were loyal to
ak>> Ukraine and they never wanted to separate from it, after
ak>> the coup in 2014?
AS>
AS> People - yes. Russian colonial government - no.

You are blinded by Zelensky propaganda. Refresh you memory as it was in
Crimea 2014 in reality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTb-6xgQGpY

Bye, Alex!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2024
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x) Friday Mar 29, 2024, 09:20. alexander koryagin ÄÄ Alan Ianson.

Multiple collapsed multy-story appartments as well as multiple
mass graves keep dead bodies well.

It looks similar to what is happening in Ukaraine.
Civilian buildings and infrastructure under attack by the invasion
forces contantly.

Russian army has never bombed the civilian areas deliberately

They doing it right now. Almost every day some civilians die in major cities due to Russian rockets/drones. And there are no military targets in these cities.

paradigm for this war -- "liberation Russian people from Nazi".

But the actual paradigm is "Restoration of the Russian empire", they even called the occuppied regions "New Russia".

--- Neon BBS Line 2, 570-57-80, 20:30-06:30. [bbs.ncc.org.ua]
* Origin: Neon_#2, Kiev, Ukraine (2:463/877)

x) Friday Mar 29, 2024, 09:38. alexander koryagin ÄÄ Alex Shuman.

Ukraine could be a country both Ukrainians and
Russians.

Indeed, it was. Before Putin annexed Crimea then
supported fighting in East Ukraine then officially
invaded Ukraine. We had quite good relations with
Russia till then.

Do you still believe people of Crimea are/were loyal to
Ukraine and they never wanted to separate from it, after
the coup in 2014?

People - yes. Russian colonial government - no.

You are blinded by Zelensky propaganda. Refresh you memory as it was in Crimea 2014 in reality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTb-6xgQGpY

They had also "Crimea is Ukraine" protests, and a resistance movement still active.

--- Neon BBS Line 2, 570-57-80, 20:30-06:30. [bbs.ncc.org.ua]
* Origin: Neon_#2, Kiev, Ukraine (2:463/877)

x) Friday Mar 29, 2024, 09:31. alexander koryagin ÄÄ Alex Shuman.

if somebody suffers from senility. And every
nation has right to fight with occupants, as they
said me. When the occupant complains about nasty
partisans it sounds funny.

The ones who target civilians are not partisans but
terrorists.

Agreed. Have you said about the butchery of the civilians
and thousands of children in Gaza by Israeli bombing? ;-\

I doubt Israel targeted civilians.

A lot of journalists around the world have worked in Gaza. Many have
been killed by Israeli bombs thinking naive that if they are among civilians or in hospitals they are safe. The accusation of Israel in genocide has not been born of a empty place.

Well, I said about targeting, not collaterial damage.

--- Neon BBS Line 2, 570-57-80, 20:30-06:30. [bbs.ncc.org.ua]
* Origin: Neon_#2, Kiev, Ukraine (2:463/877)

Hi, Alex Shuman!
I read your message from 29.03.2024 22:36

ak>>>> Multiple collapsed multy-story appartments as well as multiple
ak>>>> mass graves keep dead bodies well.
AI>>> It looks similar to what is happening in Ukaraine. Civilian
AI>>> buildings and infrastructure under attack by the invasion forces
AI>>> contantly.
ak>> Russian army has never bombed the civilian areas deliberately

ASI> They doing it right now. Almost every day some civilians die in
ASI> major cities due to Russian rockets/drones. And there are no
ASI> military targets in these cities.

ak>> paradigm for this war -- "liberation Russian people from Nazi".

ASI> But the actual paradigm is "Restoration of the Russian empire",
ASI> they even called the occuppied regions "New Russia".


Even from your point of view Putin's army has no any reason to bomb
potential "new Russians". This is the difference between bombing in Gaza
and Ukraine. In Gaza we have something close to genocide.

Bye, Alex!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2024
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... In Gaza we have something close to genocide.

In Russia there are vast tracts of unspoilt territory which the Russian government could open for settlement by the Palestinians. Russia could solve the problem...Siberia....

Egypt could also solve the problem, it's an Arab area, warm, muslim ... Or Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the Emirates, others ... The real drama for the Palestinians in Gaza or the West Bank is that no-one wants them ... Naahhh ... let the Israelis solve it ... Right?

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20230201
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

x) Monday Apr 01, 2024, 08:41. alexander koryagin ÄÄ Alex Shuman.

They doing it right now. Almost every day some civilians die in
major cities due to Russian rockets/drones. And there are no
military targets in these cities.

paradigm for this war -- "liberation Russian people from Nazi".

But the actual paradigm is "Restoration of the Russian empire",
they even called the occuppied regions "New Russia".

Even from your point of view Putin's army has no any reason to bomb potential "new Russians". This is the difference between bombing in Gaza and Ukraine. In Gaza we have something close to genocide.

In Gaza, they have combatants stationed in/under the city. In major Ukrainian cities we don't. And Russian reason to bomb is terror.

--- Neon BBS Line 2, 570-57-80, 20:30-06:30. [bbs.ncc.org.ua]
* Origin: Neon_#2, Kiev, Ukraine (2:463/877)

In Gaza, they have combatants stationed in/under the city. In major Ukrainian cities we don't. And Russian reason to bomb is terror.

In Gaza there's a proxy-war with Iran going on. As long as Iran's role is not recognized there will be no solution. They finance Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houttis and eventually there will be an all-out war between Israel and Iran to prevent "From the river to the sea" happening.

Besides, Iran is also involved in the Russian aggression against Ukraine. It's an even bigger threat than Russia worldwide and Israel is our last stand against Islamism taking over Europe.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20230201
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

x) Wednesday Apr 03, 2024, 01:24. Ward Dossche ÄÄ Alex Shuman.

Besides, Iran is also involved in the Russian aggression against Ukraine. It's an even bigger threat than Russia worldwide and Israel is our last stand against Islamism taking over Europe.

Yes, Iran sells Shaheds to Russia, but I doubt it does so in support of Islamism, more like in support of a friendly dictatorship.

--- Neon BBS Line 2, 570-57-80, 20:30-06:30. [bbs.ncc.org.ua]
* Origin: Neon_#2, Kiev, Ukraine (2:463/877)