First off - wow! What happened? No messages in here for the better
part of a week?

Did everyone pack up and go home?

Secondly: I've just purchased and installed Windows 7 Home Premium 64-
bit. Spent the better of the day getting all of my programs re-
installed and they seem to be working just fine now.

Not seeing what the major differences are between it and Vista though.
Mostly back-end stuff maybe?
---
þ MM 1.1 #0366 þ
þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Los Angeles, Ca þ www.techware.dynip.com

--- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462
# Origin: ILink: CFBBS | cfbbs.dtdns.net | 856-933-7096 (454:1/1)

---
þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ Capitol City Online * KY/US * 502/875-8938 * cco.ath.cx
* Origin: ILink: CCO - capitolcityonline.net (454:3/105)

First off - wow! What happened? No messages in here for the better
part of a week?

I've posted some messages. Sure, I haven't posted as many since I quit
using NNTP and stuck with the handy dandy .qwk packets, but... <G>

Did everyone pack up and go home?

The surge is over, I guess.

Not seeing what the major differences are between it and Vista though. DP>Mostly back-end stuff maybe?

I think Windows 7 is what Vista SP1 or SP2 *should* have been. They
fixed *most*, but not all the kinks/issues with Vista.

I like some of the interface changes between Vista and Windows 7. I
especially like being able to "pin" several shortcuts to various Word
templates we use on a daily basis, to one Word icon on the taskbar. It
groups shortcuts associated with a particular app to one icon. Just right-click the Word icon on the taskbar, and pick which template you
need, and off you go.

-=> Carroll McAllister on 3/15/2010 at 9:35 AM <=-

Coming to you "almost live" from Searcy, Arkansas

carrollmcallister@earthlink.net




---
þ OLXWin 1.00b þ "If the shoe fits, buy it." - Imelda Marcos
þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Los Angeles, Ca þ www.techware.dynip.com

--- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462
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þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ Capitol City Online * KY/US * 502/875-8938 * cco.ath.cx
* Origin: ILink: CCO - capitolcityonline.net (454:3/105)

First off - wow! What happened? No messages in here for the better DP>part of a week?

I've posted some messages. Sure, I haven't posted as many since I quit using NNTP and stuck with the handy dandy .qwk packets, but... <G>

Maybe my pointers got screwed up. I just logged in yesterday after not grabbing a packet for a week and downloaded seven messages, which was
kind of strange.

Not seeing what the major differences are between it and Vista though. DP>Mostly back-end stuff maybe?

I think Windows 7 is what Vista SP1 or SP2 *should* have been. They
fixed *most*, but not all the kinks/issues with Vista.

I like some of the interface changes between Vista and Windows 7. I especially like being able to "pin" several shortcuts to various Word templates we use on a daily basis, to one Word icon on the taskbar. It groups shortcuts associated with a particular app to one icon. Just right-click the Word icon on the taskbar, and pick which template you
need, and off you go.

I've tried out Aero shake and "pinning" stuff you open most often to
the Taskbar. Those are nice. Need to do some more exploring, I guess.
---
þ MM 1.1 #0366 þ
þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Los Angeles, Ca þ www.techware.dynip.com

--- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462
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---
þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ Capitol City Online * KY/US * 502/875-8938 * cco.ath.cx
* Origin: ILink: CCO - capitolcityonline.net (454:3/105)

Hi Doug!

First off - wow! What happened? No messages in here for the
better part of a week?
Did everyone pack up and go home?

Or they left home and didn't remember to brig anything to keep in
contact with! ...I was 'missing' messages for at least three days --
was wondering if something happened.

Secondly: I've just purchased and installed Windows 7 Home
Premium 64- bit. Spent the better of the day getting all of my
programs re- installed and they seem to be working just fine now.

That's good. Still running XP here and will probably stay with it.


¯ ®
¯ Barry_Martin_3@ ®
¯ @MSN.COM ®
¯ ®


...
Aborted effort.
Close all that you have worked on.
You ask too much.
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47
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þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ Capitol City Online * KY/US * 502/875-8938 * cco.ath.cx
* Origin: ILink: CCO - capitolcityonline.net (454:3/105)

Maybe my pointers got screwed up. I just logged in yesterday after not DP>grabbing a packet for a week and downloaded seven messages, which was DP>kind of strange.

It has slacked off a bit. I guess these things go in spurts.

I've tried out Aero shake and "pinning" stuff you open most often to
the Taskbar. Those are nice. Need to do some more exploring, I guess.

I haven't tried Aero shake. I've read about it, but still don't get the concept, I guess.


-=> Carroll McAllister on 3/16/2010 at 4:24 PM <=-

Coming to you "almost live" from Searcy, Arkansas

carrollmcallister@earthlink.net




---
þ OLXWin 1.00b þ "I want her home by 8:15" Middle of August's OK!
þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Los Angeles, Ca þ www.techware.dynip.com

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þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ Capitol City Online * KY/US * 502/875-8938 * cco.ath.cx
* Origin: ILink: CCO - capitolcityonline.net (454:3/105)

Barry.....

At the time Windows Live was the cheap-and-easy fix to regain my e-mail. ...Not saying it's good, just was the easiest way. <g>

Easy, yeah, because it is similar enough to OE that setup is simple.
Good, not even as good as OE, and many consider OE to be the worst <G>

because you had OE set to get your Hotmail emails via POP3, you
saw it in OE, not on the Hotmail site...

This line?
Received: from servera05.tk2adsmtp4.msn.com ([207.46.222.225]) by bay0-mc12-f19.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668);
Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:12:14 -0700

That would seem to come from MSFT and the IP address, when you look it
up, does belong to msn.com

There's also:
Return-Path: communications@microsoft.msn.com

Which could be a dummy... MSFT wouldn't put a real email address in,
else they would be flooded with replies, very few of them actually having
to do with the subject of the email <G>

Yes, in a recent search (past week or so) did find information on how to alter Outlook Express to work; I don't recall seeing the detailed instructions when I was looking for it last year. (I also noted the copyright on the PDF instructions was 2010 -- about six months after the change.)

Which means little... if they updated it (and this is possible, since
MSFT is constantly changing how things are done <G>), then it might have
a current copyright date on it

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 03/17/2010 at 08:40

---
þ MM 1.1 #0366 þ You've got to be trusted by the people that you lie to.
þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Los Angeles, Ca þ www.techware.dynip.com

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Carroll...

I'm not that enthralled with accessing my e-mail via a web page. I use
one when I have to, but I prefer getting my e-mail via something like Thunderbird or Outlook.

I don't like it either, but I am not getting my email that way... only
the ones I gave that address to, and those are generally junk anyway. I
get my "real" email via my "real" account, using Outlook 2003.

start getting spam at that disposable address, you know who sold/gave away/spammed your e-mail address, and can disable that address.

My Rogers account has 7 emails. If I create one and then later delete
it, I get that one back on my count. I can (and sometimes do) use this
the same way...

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 03/17/2010 at 11:48

---
þ MM 1.1 #0366 þ Despair: What's in de Trunk..............
þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Los Angeles, Ca þ www.techware.dynip.com

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þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ Capitol City Online * KY/US * 502/875-8938 * cco.ath.cx
* Origin: ILink: CCO - capitolcityonline.net (454:3/105)

Hey Barry.

First off - wow! What happened? No messages in here for the
better part of a week?
Did everyone pack up and go home?

Or they left home and didn't remember to brig anything to keep in
contact with! ...I was 'missing' messages for at least three days --
was wondering if something happened.

I think Gregg mentioned it: he's an accountant and it's now tax season.
As Sean Connery would say: "thus endeth the lesson". :)

Secondly: I've just purchased and installed Windows 7 Home
Premium 64- bit. Spent the better of the day getting all of my programs re- installed and they seem to be working just fine now.

That's good. Still running XP here and will probably stay with it.

Where's your sense of adventure dude? :)
---
þ MM 1.1 #0366 þ
þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Los Angeles, Ca þ www.techware.dynip.com

--- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462
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þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ Capitol City Online * KY/US * 502/875-8938 * cco.ath.cx
* Origin: ILink: CCO - capitolcityonline.net (454:3/105)

Maybe my pointers got screwed up. I just logged in yesterday after not DP>grabbing a packet for a week and downloaded seven messages, which was DP>kind of strange.

It has slacked off a bit. I guess these things go in spurts.

Or Gregg was busy doing taxes again.

I've tried out Aero shake and "pinning" stuff you open most often to DP>the Taskbar. Those are nice. Need to do some more exploring, I guess.

I haven't tried Aero shake. I've read about it, but still don't get the concept, I guess.

1. Open up a bunch of windows
2. Pick the one you like and place the mouse at the top of the bar.
3. Shake the mouse so that the window moves back and forth
4. Watch all of the other windows minimize at once.

It's cool to watch. I don't know how much practical use it is though.
---
þ MM 1.1 #0366 þ
þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Los Angeles, Ca þ www.techware.dynip.com

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þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ Capitol City Online * KY/US * 502/875-8938 * cco.ath.cx
* Origin: ILink: CCO - capitolcityonline.net (454:3/105)

THERE HE IS!!

First off - wow! What happened? No messages in here for the better part of a week?

I'm sorry... I've been busy... tax season and all... <GG>

Riight! That had slipped my mind. (Well not the tax season - the fact
that you and the tax season go hand in hand around this time of the
year). I did my taxes using Intuit - online. It was actually a fairly painless experience, which surprised me.

Well not completely painless. At my first go, I thought I owed money.
I took another look and realized I had forgotten to input one of the deductables. And now I have a small (oh so very small) refund coming
back.

Not seeing what the major differences are between it and Vista though. Mostly back-end stuff maybe?

Mostly back end stuff, yes. Security is tighter, but yet, less
noticeable to the user. A lot of other stuff, some of which are not

"there", but

"not there"...

You know, I had given some serious thought to changing all of the ACLS
in the root to give me all privs, but then thought: "hmm. They've made
it this way for a reason. Better not fudge around with it". The
intent was to make some directories visible. I finally figured out how, without changing the root directory rights.

A lot of eye candy changes, or what I call that... Aero Peek, Aero
Shake, that sort of thing.

Found and did all of those.

One thing I find useful... open up several apps so that your desktop is covered. Now move your mouse to the far right of the task bar...
everything goes transparent. Click there and everything minimises. Click

there

again, and everything is back on the desktop. Also, the thumbnails on
the taskbar "superbar" items, along with the jump lists (which you won't see right after installing... you need to use your apps a few times to
get a jump list for them..)

This sounds like what Mac does, so I'm already familiar with it.
Doesn't matter who thought of it first though: it's just a damned good idea. ---
þ MM 1.1 #0366 þ
þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Los Angeles, Ca þ www.techware.dynip.com

--- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462
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þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ Capitol City Online * KY/US * 502/875-8938 * cco.ath.cx
* Origin: ILink: CCO - capitolcityonline.net (454:3/105)

Barry....

I generally don't add pictures, etc., though will if seems applicable to the conversation. ...Lately getting a lot of ASCII drawing practice:

Same here, although lately, I seem to be using a picture of either a
raspberry or blackberries more and more <GG>

audio-video cable. ...Wonder if the 1,000 mile trip is going to be
coming early this year?!

Maybe... maybe not... your fault for being such a good son <GG>

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 03/17/2010 at 15:58

---
þ MM 1.1 #0366 þ Ham on rye -- a drunk radio operator.
þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Los Angeles, Ca þ www.techware.dynip.com

--- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462
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---
þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ Capitol City Online * KY/US * 502/875-8938 * cco.ath.cx
* Origin: ILink: CCO - capitolcityonline.net (454:3/105)

Doug....

First off - wow! What happened? No messages in here for the better
part of a week?

I'm sorry... I've been busy... tax season and all... <GG>

Not seeing what the major differences are between it and Vista though. Mostly back-end stuff maybe?

Mostly back end stuff, yes. Security is tighter, but yet, less
noticeable to the user. A lot of other stuff, some of which are not "there", but
"not there"...

A lot of eye candy changes, or what I call that... Aero Peek, Aero
Shake, that sort of thing.

One thing I find useful... open up several apps so that your desktop is covered. Now move your mouse to the far right of the task bar...
everything goes transparent. Click there and everything minimises. Click there

again, and everything is back on the desktop. Also, the thumbnails on
the taskbar "superbar" items, along with the jump lists (which you won't
see right after installing... you need to use your apps a few times to
get a jump list for them..)

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 03/17/2010 at 15:59

---
þ MM 1.1 #0366 þ A wok is what you thwow at a wabbit.
þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Los Angeles, Ca þ www.techware.dynip.com

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þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ Capitol City Online * KY/US * 502/875-8938 * cco.ath.cx
* Origin: ILink: CCO - capitolcityonline.net (454:3/105)

the ones I gave that address to, and those are generally junk anyway. I GH>get my "real" email via my "real" account, using Outlook 2003.

Speaking of which, I think I'm going to "investigate" the "Outlook
Connector" that enables access of my Hotmail account. It gives the
impression that it can go fetch other web-based e-mail accounts.

My Rogers account has 7 emails. If I create one and then later delete
it, I get that one back on my count. I can (and sometimes do) use this GH>the same way...

Since I dropped my Earthlink service back to the e-mail only plan, I've
only got two "official" e-mail addresses available, plus the 10
"disposable" e-mail addresses on the primary account and 5 disposable
addresses on the secondary account.


-=> Carroll McAllister on 3/18/2010 at 3:40 PM <=-

Coming to you "almost live" from Searcy, Arkansas

carrollmcallister@earthlink.net




---
þ OLXWin 1.00b þ "Apple" (c) Copyright 1767, Sir Isaac Newton.
þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Los Angeles, Ca þ www.techware.dynip.com

--- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462
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þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ Capitol City Online * KY/US * 502/875-8938 * cco.ath.cx
* Origin: ILink: CCO - capitolcityonline.net (454:3/105)

It has slacked off a bit. I guess these things go in spurts.

Or Gregg was busy doing taxes again.

"Poor excuse is better than none." <G>


-=> Carroll McAllister on 3/18/2010 at 3:49 PM <=-

Coming to you "almost live" from Searcy, Arkansas

carrollmcallister@earthlink.net




---
þ OLXWin 1.00b þ "Energize!" said Picard and the pink bunny appeared...
þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Los Angeles, Ca þ www.techware.dynip.com

--- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462
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þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ Capitol City Online * KY/US * 502/875-8938 * cco.ath.cx
* Origin: ILink: CCO - capitolcityonline.net (454:3/105)

year). I did my taxes using Intuit - online. It was actually a fairly DP>painless experience, which surprised me.

I've been using the online version of Taxact for several years now.
Here in the US, the online tax preparers have, through the IRS, offered
free preparation, e-filing, and printing of your federal tax return.
State returns, of course, cost extra, and complicated federal returns
generally aren't free.

I paid $13.95 US for my federal e-filed return, plus preparation and
e-filing of my Arkansas tax return. Since I've been using the online
version for three or four years, it pulls in my information from prior
years' returns.

They try to up sell you to their "data protection service", where they
keep a copy of your return on their servers for up to five years. I
just print a copy of my return{s} to PDF and skip the "data protection service."


-=> Carroll McAllister on 3/18/2010 at 3:58 PM <=-

Coming to you "almost live" from Searcy, Arkansas

carrollmcallister@earthlink.net




---
þ OLXWin 1.00b þ !evirD-draH ym pu kcab nac I woN !!esrever dnuof I
þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Los Angeles, Ca þ www.techware.dynip.com

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þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ Capitol City Online * KY/US * 502/875-8938 * cco.ath.cx
* Origin: ILink: CCO - capitolcityonline.net (454:3/105)

At the time Windows Live was the cheap-and-easy fix to regain my e-mail. ...Not saying it's good, just was the easiest way. <g>

Easy, yeah, because it is similar enough to OE that setup is
simple. Good, not even as good as OE, and many consider OE to be
the worst <G>

Another fine product from Microsoft! <g>

because you had OE set to get your Hotmail emails via POP3, you
saw it in OE, not on the Hotmail site...

This line?
Received: from servera05.tk2adsmtp4.msn.com ([207.46.222.225]) by bay0-mc12-f19.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668);
Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:12:14 -0700

That would seem to come from MSFT and the IP address, when you
look it up, does belong to msn.com

But can the two be spoofed?

There's also:
Return-Path: communications@microsoft.msn.com

Which could be a dummy... MSFT wouldn't put a real email address
in, else they would be flooded with replies, very few of them
actually having to do with the subject of the email <G>

So I'm guessing the first two are the ones to check; the "Return-Path"
one could be altered. As for writing to Microsoft based on that
address, suppose one could try. Many companies send e-mails from a
particular address and indicate in the fine print it not for incoming communicatinos.

Yes, in a recent search (past week or so) did find information on how to alter Outlook Express to work; I don't recall seeing the detailed instructions when I was looking for it last year. (I also noted the copyright on the PDF instructions was 2010 -- about six months after the change.)

Which means little... if they updated it (and this is possible,
since MSFT is constantly changing how things are done <G>), then
it might have a current copyright date on it

Right. And since Outlook Express isn't all that different with the
Windows Live Mail I'm currently using it doesn't seem worthwhile for me
to go back to it.

¯ ®
¯ Barry_Martin_3@ ®
¯ @MSN.COM ®
¯ ®


... Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality.
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47
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þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ Capitol City Online * KY/US * 502/875-8938 * cco.ath.cx
* Origin: ILink: CCO - capitolcityonline.net (454:3/105)

Hi Doug!

First off - wow! What happened? No messages in here for the
better part of a week?
Did everyone pack up and go home?

Or they left home and didn't remember to brig anything to keep in
contact with! ...I was 'missing' messages for at least three days --
was wondering if something happened.

I think Gregg mentioned it: he's an accountant and it's now tax
season. As Sean Connery would say: "thus endeth the lesson". :)

You mean his clients wouldn't understand they need to "be put on hold"
when he gets e-mail from us just like he has to be put on hold when his clients get cell phone calls and Twitters? <g>

Secondly: I've just purchased and installed Windows 7 Home
Premium 64- bit. Spent the better of the day getting all of my programs re- installed and they seem to be working just fine now.

That's good. Still running XP here and will probably stay with it.

Where's your sense of adventure dude? :)

You're fogrgetting about the other projects going on!!

¯ ®
¯ Barry_Martin_3@ ®
¯ @MSN.COM ®
¯ ®


... The squeezable toothpaste tube was invented in 1892.
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47
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þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ Capitol City Online * KY/US * 502/875-8938 * cco.ath.cx
* Origin: ILink: CCO - capitolcityonline.net (454:3/105)

Barry....

simple. Good, not even as good as OE, and many consider OE to be
the worst <G>

Another fine product from Microsoft! <g>

Isn't it amazing how a single company can come up with stuff as good as
it does, AND as bad as it does? <G>

That would seem to come from MSFT and the IP address, when you
look it up, does belong to msn.com

But can the two be spoofed?

Yes... virtually any/all parts of an email header can be spoofed, other
than via sophisticated software which can detect the real stuff...

Right. And since Outlook Express isn't all that different with the
Windows Live Mail I'm currently using it doesn't seem worthwhile for me
to go back to it.

A matter of opinion... I would use OE over WLM anytime, without a
doubt.

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 03/19/2010 at 22:13

---
þ MM 1.1 #0366 þ -0.809016994 -- the sine of the Beast.
þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Los Angeles, Ca þ www.techware.dynip.com

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þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ Capitol City Online * KY/US * 502/875-8938 * cco.ath.cx
* Origin: ILink: CCO - capitolcityonline.net (454:3/105)

Barry....

Same here, although lately, I seem to be using a picture of
either a raspberry or blackberries more and more <GG>

You're including pictures of cell phones and PDAs??!!

Fruit, sir... fruit! (Isn't it scary that we now think of a blackberry
only as a cell phone/PDA, not the fruit? <G>)

And hopefully this time I can get LogMeIn to work -- last trip it didn't but the switch failed here. A little hard to communicate when the
network is down!

Absolutely, but the peace and quiet sure is nice! <GG>

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 03/19/2010 at 22:17

---
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Barry...

You mean his clients wouldn't understand they need to "be put on hold"
when he gets e-mail from us just like he has to be put on hold when his clients get cell phone calls and Twitters? <g>

I am forcibly "retired" and am not allowed any income outside of my
disability payments. As a result, my "clients" are such on my goodwill
only, and if any of them ever put me on hold for a cell phone call or
twitter, he/she would find themselves no longer a client in merely the time it

would take me to hang up.

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 03/19/2010 at 22:20

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Doug....

THERE HE IS!!

And there go all of your hopes <GG>

Riight! That had slipped my mind. (Well not the tax season - the fact that you and the tax season go hand in hand around this time of the

You have spent many years giving me grief because I was an accountant,
and NOW you decide to forget? To quote Carroll in another conference...
"Yeah, sure!" <GG>

Well not completely painless. At my first go, I thought I owed money.
I took another look and realized I had forgotten to input one of the deductables. And now I have a small (oh so very small) refund coming
back.

Now you know why people get accountants (and me) to do their
"simplified" tax return <G> But I do know how you feel... I finally, for the past
two years, have gotten a small refund for the first time in some 25
years... and all it took to get it was high medical bills, and being
"retired" and on CPP disability <G>

You know, I had given some serious thought to changing all of the ACLS
in the root to give me all privs, but then thought: "hmm. They've made
it this way for a reason. Better not fudge around with it". The

The biggest reason for that is because many newer virus/malware use the
root of the drive for their baddies, most often by hiding within
something already there, and necessary. I have a small REG file (well, two, actually... one to uninstall) that, when installed, adds an item to the
right click context menu called "Take Ownership". If I run into a snag
doing something because I don't have ownership of a file or folder, I can
use that to take care of it...

see right after installing... you need to use your apps a few times to get a jump list for them..)

This sounds like what Mac does, so I'm already familiar with it.
Doesn't matter who thought of it first though: it's just a damned good

idea.

Agreed. I don't care who thought of it, or who implemented it first, or best... the idea is damn good, and whether it works best or not, it
works <G>

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 03/19/2010 at 18:38

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Carroll...

Speaking of which, I think I'm going to "investigate" the "Outlook Connector" that enables access of my Hotmail account. It gives the impression that it can go fetch other web-based e-mail accounts.

Not sure where you got that "impression" but it clearly states that it
is for Hotmail, and nothing I read gave me any other impression...

http://office.microsoft.com/en-ca/outlook/HA102225181033.aspx

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 03/19/2010 at 20:04

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simple. Good, not even as good as OE, and many consider OE to be
the worst <G>

Another fine product from Microsoft! <g>

Isn't it amazing how a single company can come up with stuff as
good as it does, AND as bad as it does? <G>

In a word, yes. One can't do everything and do it right (jack of all
trades, master of none). One the one hand it makes sense for one company
to be in control of everything running under its operating system ==>
allows for consistency and compatability. Of course that would imply
they should also be making all the modems, printers, network
hardware......

On the other hand, allowing outsiders who are specialists to 'do their
thing', using the specifications and guidelines of the overseeing company
tends to make more sense to me.

I'm thinking of something like movies, which may not be a good example
as I don't know enough of the details! All movies have to follow a few
basic guidelines like film size. A 16mm film will not work with an 8mm projector, no matter how good the content is. But the size had to be
expanded to allow for special effects.

Also the format changes. Used to be on film, now is on electronic
media.

Somehow I was going to try to get in the differences between studio and independent producers but got myself side-tracked. They still have to
follow the basic rules (film size, speeds,etc.).

That would seem to come from MSFT and the IP address, when you
look it up, does belong to msn.com

But can the two be spoofed?

Yes... virtually any/all parts of an email header can be spoofed,
other than via sophisticated software which can detect the real
stuff...

OK. So it would be best to be on guard for "suspicious activity", as
always. Even though things check out (IP address, etc.) if it is a
remote possibility but generally unlikely would be best to proceed with caution. Might be a bad idea to dismiss it totally as could be true, but
a bad policy to accept it as one of those rare possibilities.

And oddly enoug I did receive another mass-mailing (alledgedly) from
Microsoft the other day: "A New MSN Is Coming". (Longer than I thought
-- March 4th!) Probably legit: held off doing anything with it for a
few days -- gives those running the 'sophisticated software' time to
receive complaints and figure out what to do to block or otherwise fix
the problem.

Right. And since Outlook Express isn't all that different with the Windows Live Mail I'm currently using it doesn't seem worthwhile for me
to go back to it.

A matter of opinion... I would use OE over WLM anytime, without a
doubt.

ARGHHH!! <ggg> Other considerations on this end are time (if I play
with the OE configuration I don't have that time to do something else).
I'm also planning on migrating to Linux (probably Ubuntu) [how long has
that project been in the works?!] and OE nor WLM will work (directly). Probably looking at a Mozilla product.

¯ ®
¯ Barry_Martin_3@ ®
¯ @MSN.COM ®
¯ ®


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Barry.....

Isn't it amazing how a single company can come up with stuff as
good as it does, AND as bad as it does? <G>

In a word, yes. One can't do everything and do it right (jack of all trades, master of none). One the one hand it makes sense for one company
to be in control of everything running under its operating system ==>

Like apple, you mean <G>

allows for consistency and compatability. Of course that would imply
they should also be making all the modems, printers, network
hardware......

Like Apple... or how they once were until the market forced them out of
that <GG>

On the other hand, allowing outsiders who are specialists to 'do their thing', using the specifications and guidelines of the overseeing company tends to make more sense to me.

And me, but it sure does make a mess of trying to design an OS and
other software to fit such many and varied systems... It also forces
reliance upon those outsiders to perform rapidly when updates are required, which doesn't always happen

Somehow I was going to try to get in the differences between studio and independent producers but got myself side-tracked. They still have to follow the basic rules (film size, speeds,etc.).

But can develop their own thoughts and ideas, even if not fully
commercially viable... IOW a niche market for Indies...

OK. So it would be best to be on guard for "suspicious activity", as always.

Absolutely. You can, to be honest, never let your guard down. Those
that do risk getting a virus or malware, and possibly even contributing to
the problem...

I'm also planning on migrating to Linux (probably Ubuntu) [how long has that project been in the works?!] and OE nor WLM will work (directly). Probably looking at a Mozilla product.

If that is the case, you might want to drop WLM and look at
Thunderbird. It is a good replacement for OE when it comes to email, and since I
believe it is also available for Linux, might have a smaller learning
curve when (and if <G>) you ever do switch...

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 03/22/2010 at 10:24

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Barry....

goodwill only, and if any of them ever put me on hold for a cell
phone call or twitter, he/she would find themselves no longer a
client in merely the time it would take me to hang up.

<smile>

Lots of smiling and laughter today. Must be my time to tickle your
funny bone <G>

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 03/22/2010 at 10:31

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year). I did my taxes using Intuit - online. It was actually a fairly DP>painless experience, which surprised me.

I've been using the online version of Taxact for several years now.
Here in the US, the online tax preparers have, through the IRS, offered free preparation, e-filing, and printing of your federal tax return.
State returns, of course, cost extra, and complicated federal returns generally aren't free.

I paid $13.95 US for my federal e-filed return, plus preparation and e-filing of my Arkansas tax return. Since I've been using the online version for three or four years, it pulls in my information from prior years' returns.

That sounds about the same here. The online version was dirt-cheap -
around the price you paid, and they keep the information in your account
for subsequent years. This is the first time I've used them - having
chosen to buy the software in years past. I have no idea why I didn't do
this before. It's dead-easy, and like yours - they do the efiling right
to the feds so you don't have to wait too long for your money.

It amazes me that people will still go to places like HFC and pay
through the nose to get their easy tax returns done, just so that they can
get their money on the spot (minus whatever percent the company keeps). I don't think the immediacy of the money is worth the investment. Unless they're getting a lot back and have a line on a hot stock tip or
something....

They try to up sell you to their "data protection service", where they
keep a copy of your return on their servers for up to five years. I
just print a copy of my return{s} to PDF and skip the "data protection service."

Interesting. Here, they try and sell you their services for
consultation in case you get audited. Once again if you have an easy return, and
you keep the few receipts, I don't see the point. I opted not to pay
them.
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I haven't tried Aero shake. I've read about it, but still don't get

the

concept, I guess.

1. Open up a bunch of windows
2. Pick the one you like and place the mouse at the top of the
bar. 3. Shake the mouse so that the window moves back and forth
4. Watch all of the other windows minimize at once.
It's cool to watch. I don't know how much practical use it is
though. ---

May be very useful in a business environment: quickly closes the
Solitaire game, the window you're reading ILInk in, and the one
streaming video of some TV show, leaving only the corporate spreadsheet
up and open!

That can't be right. XP (and I think Windows 2000) allows you to
minimize everything at once (Windows key + D) or switch to the application of your choice (ALT-TAB). There's got to be another reason for this.
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Riight! That had slipped my mind. (Well not the tax season - the fact that you and the tax season go hand in hand around this time of the

You have spent many years giving me grief because I was an accountant,
and NOW you decide to forget? To quote Carroll in another conference... "Yeah, sure!" <GG>

"Keep 'em rocking on the back of their heels" I learn well from my
masters.

Well not completely painless. At my first go, I thought I owed money. I took another look and realized I had forgotten to input one of the deductables. And now I have a small (oh so very small) refund coming back.

Now you know why people get accountants (and me) to do their
"simplified" tax return <G> But I do know how you feel... I finally, for

the past

two years, have gotten a small refund for the first time in some 25 years... and all it took to get it was high medical bills, and being "retired" and on CPP disability <G>

Seems like way too high a price to pay to get money back from the feds.
Ah well. May as well take what you can get. How long before you
collect OAS Gregg? *grin*

You know, I had given some serious thought to changing all of the ACLS in the root to give me all privs, but then thought: "hmm. They've

made

it this way for a reason. Better not fudge around with it". The

The biggest reason for that is because many newer virus/malware use the root of the drive for their baddies, most often by hiding within
something already there, and necessary. I have a small REG file (well,

two,

actually... one to uninstall) that, when installed, adds an item to the right click context menu called "Take Ownership". If I run into a snag doing something because I don't have ownership of a file or folder, I can use that to take care of it...

Does this become necessary very often with Win7? So far I've not had
to do it at all. Turns out my real need was just to see hidden folders
so that I could manipulate some files. Didn't need to change the
security.

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You mean his clients wouldn't understand they need to "be put on hold" when he gets e-mail from us just like he has to be put on hold when

his

clients get cell phone calls and Twitters? <g>

I am forcibly "retired" and am not allowed any income outside of my disability payments. As a result, my "clients" are such on my goodwill only, and if any of them ever put me on hold for a cell phone call or twitter, he/she would find themselves no longer a client in merely the

time it

would take me to hang up.

It won't be drugs or the proliferation of guns in our society that will
bring us down. It will be the marginalization of society through the distractions of cell phones and Twitter that does it.

Whoever thought, back before the wide use of the internet, that people
would email each other when their desks are 20 feet apart? Or that
idiots (sorry, but that's how I see them) would tell the entire world that they're on their way to the bathroom now, via Twitter? Did you know
there's a whole criminal culture who prey on these folk, taking particular note when they advise the world when they're leaving their house, just so
they can know when to break in and rob them? *shakes head* Amazing.
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Isn't it amazing how a single company can come up with stuff as
good as it does, AND as bad as it does? <G>

In a word, yes. One can't do everything and do it right (jack of all trades, master of none). One the one hand it makes sense for one company to be in control of everything running under its operating system ==>

Like apple, you mean <G>

If the software fits.... <g>

allows for consistency and compatability. Of course that would imply
they should also be making all the modems, printers, network hardware......

Like Apple... or how they once were until the market forced them
out of that <GG>

If the hardware fits.... <g>

On the other hand, allowing outsiders who are specialists to 'do their thing', using the specifications and guidelines of the overseeing company tends to make more sense to me.

And me, but it sure does make a mess of trying to design an OS
and other software to fit such many and varied systems... It also
forces reliance upon those outsiders to perform rapidly when
updates are required, which doesn't always happen

Or at all, as in the instances of drivers not being available for
devices after Windows XP.

Somehow I was going to try to get in the differences between studio and independent producers but got myself side-tracked. They still have to follow the basic rules (film size, speeds,etc.).

But can develop their own thoughts and ideas, even if not fully commercially viable... IOW a niche market for Indies...

True. And there are lots of those out there. depending on how broadly
one wishes to define 'niche'. Broad definition: a custom-made computer.

Of course, some 'niche products' and designs break open a barrier --
Hey! This is a great idea! How come we didn't think of it years ago!

OK. So it would be best to be on guard for "suspicious activity", as always.

Absolutely. You can, to be honest, never let your guard down.
Those that do risk getting a virus or malware, and possibly even contributing to the problem...

True. Zombie computers or something like that: they get infected and
start sending out Denial of Service attacks, etc.

I'm also planning on migrating to Linux (probably Ubuntu) [how long has that project been in the works?!] and OE nor WLM will work (directly). Probably looking at a Mozilla product.

If that is the case, you might want to drop WLM and look at
Thunderbird. It is a good replacement for OE when it comes to
email, and since
believe it is also available for Linux, might have a smaller
learning curve when (and if <G>) you ever do switch...

Yes. Thunderbird keeps coming up. Would be easier on my poor confused
brain cells to have e-mail/communications similar between the two OSs.

¯ ®
¯ Barry_Martin_3@ ®
¯ @MSN.COM ®
¯ ®


... If I don't have wisdom, I can teach you only ignorance. - Leo Buscaglia
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Hi Doug!

I haven't tried Aero shake. I've read about it, but still don't get

e

concept, I guess.

1. Open up a bunch of windows
2. Pick the one you like and place the mouse at the top of the
bar. 3. Shake the mouse so that the window moves back and forth
4. Watch all of the other windows minimize at once.
It's cool to watch. I don't know how much practical use it is though. ---

May be very useful in a business environment: quickly closes the
Solitaire game, the window you're reading ILInk in, and the one
streaming video of some TV show, leaving only the corporate spreadsheet
up and open!

That can't be right. XP (and I think Windows 2000) allows you to
minimize everything at once (Windows key + D) or switch to the
application of your choice (ALT-TAB). There's got to be another
reason for this. ---

Sure: greater sneakiness! If one is playing Solitaire or any game
generally the hand will be on the mouse. If there is a sudden movement
to the keyboard the boss might get suspicious! Spying the boss and
shaking the mouse while returning the eyes on the screen would be much
more in line with the surrent game playing posture than a sudden
movement of the eyes and hands to the keyboard!

¯ ®
¯ Barry_Martin_3@ ®
¯ @MSN.COM ®
¯ ®


... Out of a job? Can cowboys be deranged?
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ARGHHH!! <ggg> Other considerations on this end are time (if I play
with the OE configuration I don't have that time to do something else). BM>I'm also planning on migrating to Linux (probably Ubuntu) [how long has BM>that project been in the works?!] and OE nor WLM will work (directly). BM>Probably looking at a Mozilla product.

The "Smart Computing" article that I saw suggests setting up Ubuntu to
launch from a flash drive. The reference was
unetbootin.sourceforge.net . I started on that a couple of weeks ago,
but didn't complete the job. I must try again.

st_buffer * OLX 2.2 * Geoff in State College, Pennsylvania. glw4-at-psu.edu
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Hi Geoff!

ARGHHH!! <ggg> Other considerations on this end are time (if I play
with the OE configuration I don't have that time to do something else).
I'm also planning on migrating to Linux (probably Ubuntu) [how long has
that project been in the works?!] and OE nor WLM will work (directly).
Probably looking at a Mozilla product.

The "Smart Computing" article that I saw suggests setting up
Ubuntu to launch from a flash drive. The reference was unetbootin.sourceforge.net . I started on that a couple of
weeks ago, but didn't complete the job. I must try again.

Out of time or not as easy to do as implied in the article? (And
sometimes the older hardware doesn't allow for things like newer hardware does.)

My problem in switching is buttfirsts: but first I need to get this
done, but first I need to....

¯ ®
¯ Barry_Martin_3@ ®
¯ @MSN.COM ®
¯ ®


... Mom won't say: "I don't have a tissue with me...just use your sleeve"
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Doug....

You have spent many years giving me grief because I was an accountant, and NOW you decide to forget? To quote Carroll in another

conference...

"Yeah, sure!" <GG>

"Keep 'em rocking on the back of their heels" I learn well from my masters.

You mean the ones who regularly get turfed out of office because their "slaves" (aka constituents) figure out what is going on and revolt?

two years, have gotten a small refund for the first time in some 25 years... and all it took to get it was high medical bills, and being "retired" and on CPP disability <G>

Seems like way too high a price to pay to get money back from the feds.

It is... WAAAYYY too high a price...

Ah well. May as well take what you can get. How long before you
collect OAS Gregg? *grin*

Hush up... (and it is 5 1/2 years, if you must know <G>)

right click context menu called "Take Ownership". If I run into a snag doing something because I don't have ownership of a file or folder, I

can

use that to take care of it...

Does this become necessary very often with Win7? So far I've not had
to do it at all. Turns out my real need was just to see hidden folders
so that I could manipulate some files. Didn't need to change the
security.

It is not necessary very often, however, when I am working on someone
else's computer, Often their set up is not what I would use, and as a
result, I may have to take ownership of something at least temporarily. And this is why I also have the uninstall REG... so that I can remove the
context menu item when I am done. Had to do that not too long back on a
Vista box that would not let Office 2007 install. Wrong ownership on a particular folder (plus some registry keys) that I had to modify to allow
the install.

---
Ý MM 1.1 #0366 Ý

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 04/08/2010 at 12:26

---
þ MM 1.1 #0366 þ Two Reads don't make a Write
þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Los Angeles, Ca þ www.techware.dynip.com

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Doug....

Whoever thought, back before the wide use of the internet, that people would email each other when their desks are 20 feet apart? Or that
idiots (sorry, but that's how I see them) would tell the entire world that they're on their way to the bathroom now, via Twitter? Did you know there's a whole criminal culture who prey on these folk, taking particular note when they advise the world when they're leaving their house, just so they can know when to break in and rob them? *shakes head* Amazing.

I am aware of that criminal sub-culture, which is part of the reason
why I do not do Facebook, or Twitter or any of those. Even IM... I only
turn on Trillian about twice a day, to see who is online at the time, and
see if I want to chat. Most times, it is on and off again. I have used Messenger on my phone... just to try it out and make sure it works <G>. Haven't turned it on since, except once by accident (my thumbs are
sometimes too large and innaccurate, especially when shaking, for those touch screens).

I do not see a need to inform ANYONE, let alone the rest of the world,
that I have to use the facilities, that I am taking a shower, or that I
am going shopping. I really and truly think there are very few in the
world who might care, and thus, find those "status" things from others to
be nothing but annoying. Easiest solution? Stay away and never bother
going there <GG>

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 04/08/2010 at 12:32

---
þ MM 1.1 #0366 þ Twisted mind? No, just bent in several strategic places!
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Carroll....

Plus, with Firefox/Thunderbird, any of the extensions you might have in
the Windows version, will run on the Linux version.

Good information, but since I don't use Linux, Firefox or Thunderbird,
except on my fix-it stick... <GG>

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 04/08/2010 at 13:05

---
þ MM 1.1 #0366 þ Dain Bramaged.
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You have spent many years giving me grief because I was an

accountant,

and NOW you decide to forget? To quote Carroll in another

conference...

"Yeah, sure!" <GG>

"Keep 'em rocking on the back of their heels" I learn well from my masters.

You mean the ones who regularly get turfed out of office because their "slaves" (aka constituents) figure out what is going on and revolt?

Right. Never realizing that the ones who *truly* run things are never
elected in the first place. (And no, damn it - it ain't me)

Ah well. May as well take what you can get. How long before you collect OAS Gregg? *grin*

Hush up... (and it is 5 1/2 years, if you must know <G>)

Wow. Are you ever OLD. *grinning*

right click context menu called "Take Ownership". If I run into a

snag

doing something because I don't have ownership of a file or

folder, I can

use that to take care of it...

Does this become necessary very often with Win7? So far I've not had to do it at all. Turns out my real need was just to see hidden

folders

so that I could manipulate some files. Didn't need to change the security.

It is not necessary very often, however, when I am working on someone else's computer, Often their set up is not what I would use, and as a result, I may have to take ownership of something at least temporarily.

And

this is why I also have the uninstall REG... so that I can remove the context menu item when I am done. Had to do that not too long back on a Vista box that would not let Office 2007 install. Wrong ownership on a particular folder (plus some registry keys) that I had to modify to allow the install.

Well, I have to tell you - I'm quite happy with Windows 7, despite all
of the changes to security (or maybe because of them too, now that I
think about it). I wasn't unhappy with Vista 64, mind you, but Windows 7 works as advertised and seems quite stable.
---
þ MM 1.1 #0366 þ
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Whoever thought, back before the wide use of the internet, that people would email each other when their desks are 20 feet apart? Or that idiots (sorry, but that's how I see them) would tell the entire world

that

they're on their way to the bathroom now, via Twitter? Did you know there's a whole criminal culture who prey on these folk, taking

particular

note when they advise the world when they're leaving their house, just

so

they can know when to break in and rob them? *shakes head* Amazing.

I am aware of that criminal sub-culture, which is part of the reason
why I do not do Facebook, or Twitter or any of those. Even IM... I only turn on Trillian about twice a day, to see who is online at the time, and see if I want to chat. Most times, it is on and off again. I have used Messenger on my phone... just to try it out and make sure it works <G>. Haven't turned it on since, except once by accident (my thumbs are sometimes too large and innaccurate, especially when shaking, for those

touch

screens).

I'm on Twitter, but do not post anything personal *ever*. I'm mostly
on it to get instant and relevant news reports, as well as some highly interesting tech items and some hilarious one-liners from some truly dark
and twister jokers out there. This includes Danny Devito, who has
decided to humanize his foot, which he calls the Troll Foot. He takes it everywhere and takes pictures with people. His latest "Troll Foot with
Donny and Marie" consists of a photo of his foot against a backdrop of a
Donny and Marie poster. I also follow some novel writers that I admire
(Neil Gaimon and Barry Eisler) who often have interesting things to say
and advice to offer for aspiring writers.\

As for Facebook: I had an account and like everyone else out there, I
used my real name for it. In the process of hunting down old friends,
there were some off acquaintances (NOT friends) who found me, and two of
them (both women) decided to stalk me, both on Facebook and on email.

End result: I closed and deleted the account. Then, because I wanted
to keep in touch with my kids, I opened up a new one with a fake name.
Very very few people are "friends" with me on there. It's manageable,
and I still don't post much personal information there because as you
know - everything can show up in a search engine. I don't trust their security.

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Barry....

forces reliance upon those outsiders to perform rapidly when
updates are required, which doesn't always happen

Or at all, as in the instances of drivers not being available for
devices after Windows XP.

True, but I suspect much of that was marketing... rather than make new
drivers for old hardware, hope that people will upgrade their hardware.
More money in that...

Of course, some 'niche products' and designs break open a barrier --
Hey! This is a great idea! How come we didn't think of it years ago!

Because it wouldn't have sold then? <GG>

believe it is also available for Linux, might have a smaller
learning curve when (and if <G>) you ever do switch...

Yes. Thunderbird keeps coming up. Would be easier on my poor confused brain cells to have e-mail/communications similar between the two OSs.

If I were to think of switching to Linux, I would do similar... Firefox
and Thunderbird are similar enough between the two OS' to make the
switch easier... at least for the basics.

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 04/10/2010 at 17:58

---
þ MM þ The evening news is where they begin with 'Good evening' - and then
pr+
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Hi Gregg!

forces reliance upon those outsiders to perform rapidly when
updates are required, which doesn't always happen

Or at all, as in the instances of drivers not being available for
devices after Windows XP.

True, but I suspect much of that was marketing... rather than
make new drivers for old hardware, hope that people will upgrade
their hardware. More money in that...

True, specially when updated drivers are generally provided for free.
The only ones who have a chance of recouping their investment are those
making printers (ink cartridges provide the income).

Of course, some 'niche products' and designs break open a barrier --
Hey! This is a great idea! How come we didn't think of it years ago!

Because it wouldn't have sold then? <GG>

True: electric toasters didn't sell all that well before the
electrification of civilization!

believe it is also available for Linux, might have a smaller
learning curve when (and if <G>) you ever do switch...

Yes. Thunderbird keeps coming up. Would be easier on my poor confused brain cells to have e-mail/communications similar between the two OSs.

If I were to think of switching to Linux, I would do similar...
Firefox and Thunderbird are similar enough between the two OS' to
make the switch easier... at least for the basics.

I'm also kind of foreseeing the need for me to switch back and forth
between the two OSs. Maybe not as much with WINE and a few other
utilities designed to make Windows utilities run under Linux.

¯ ®
¯ Barry_Martin_3@ ®
¯ @MSN.COM ®
¯ ®


... Driving rules: Never get in the way of a car needing extensive body work --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47
þ wcECHO 4.2 ÷ ILink: The Safe BBS þ Bettendorf, IA
þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Los Angeles, Ca þ www.techware.dynip.com

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Plus, with Firefox/Thunderbird, any of the extensions you might have in GH>CM> the Windows version, will run on the Linux version.

Good information, but since I don't use Linux, Firefox or Thunderbird, GH>except on my fix-it stick... <GG>

Well, that was directed more at one Mr. Martin, if I recall correctly.
Yes, it was apparently a reply to you, but.... <G>


-=> Carroll McAllister on 4/10/2010 at 12:11 PM <=-

Coming to you "almost live" from Searcy, Arkansas

carrollmcallister@earthlink.net




---
þ OLXWin 1.00b þ !yaD yM neeB toN saH



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If I were to think of switching to Linux, I would do similar... Firefox GH>and Thunderbird are similar enough between the two OS' to make the
switch easier... at least for the basics.

Plus, there's always Wine to run some "must have" Windows apps you can't
get along without. I successfully installed and ran MS Publisher 2003
under Ubuntu. Some Windows apps run better than others, but it is
possible.


-=> Carroll McAllister on 4/12/2010 at 9:53 PM <=-

Coming to you "almost live" from Searcy, Arkansas

carrollmcallister@earthlink.net




---
þ OLXWin 1.00b þ !enilgaT siht edisni deppart m'I !pleH
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CARROLL MCALLISTER wrote to GREGG HOMMEL <=-

Plus, with Firefox/Thunderbird, any of the extensions you might have

in

the Windows version, will run on the Linux version.

Good information, but since I don't use Linux, Firefox or Thunderbird,
except on my fix-it stick... <GG>

Well, that was directed more at one Mr. Martin, if I recall
correctly. Yes, it was apparently a reply to you, but.... <G>

...But I did read the post and made note of the information. :)


¯ ®
¯ Barry_Martin_3@ ®
¯ @MSN.COM ®
¯ ®


... GeriatricTunes: RobertaFlack - "The First Time I Ever Forgot Your Face"
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47
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Doug....

You mean the ones who regularly get turfed out of office because their "slaves" (aka constituents) figure out what is going on and revolt?

Right. Never realizing that the ones who *truly* run things are never elected in the first place. (And no, damn it - it ain't me)

I know... in any democratic government, it is actually the beuracracy
which runs things, and although you are part of that, you aren't a big
enough wheel, right? <GG>

Hush up... (and it is 5 1/2 years, if you must know <G>)

Wow. Are you ever OLD. *grinning*

You are sounding like my grand daughter... and she is barely 5 years
old! Oh yeah... forgot... "civil servant" <GG>

Well, I have to tell you - I'm quite happy with Windows 7, despite all
of the changes to security (or maybe because of them too, now that I
think about it). I wasn't unhappy with Vista 64, mind you, but Windows 7 works as advertised and seems quite stable.

Agreed. I can still think of several changes I would make to it, but
since I have already tried to do so (and lost), I'll take it as it is for
now. <G>

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 04/18/2010 at 09:21

---
þ MM 1.1 #0366 þ If the cops throw a net over me, am I legally in seine?
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Doug....

Very very few people are "friends" with me on there. It's manageable,
and I still don't post much personal information there because as you
know - everything can show up in a search engine. I don't trust their security.

I do not trust the security of any of them. Using MSN Messenger is
risky enough (when I start Trillian, I spend more time refusing all of the ones who want to add me, than I do talking to friends <G>) but...

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 04/18/2010 at 09:25

---
þ MM 1.1 #0366 þ Power Corrupts. Absolute power's kinda neat, though.
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risky enough (when I start Trillian, I spend more time refusing all of the GH>ones who want to add me, than I do talking to friends <G>) but...

And the ones who want to "add you" on Messenger aren't really interested
in being your "friend", unless you want to pay to see their "hot
photos". And that's a road I'd rather not travel down.


-=> Carroll McAllister on 4/18/2010 at 3:43 PM <=-

Coming to you "almost live" from Searcy, Arkansas

carrollmcallister@earthlink.net




---
þ OLXWin 1.00b þ "I'd love to help you out. Which way did you come in?" --
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You mean the ones who regularly get turfed out of office because

their

"slaves" (aka constituents) figure out what is going on and

revolt?

Right. Never realizing that the ones who *truly* run things are never elected in the first place. (And no, damn it - it ain't me)

I know... in any democratic government, it is actually the beuracracy
which runs things, and although you are part of that, you aren't a big enough wheel, right? <GG>

Right.

You'd be amazed at how many people don't realize the truth of your
statement.

---
þ MM 1.1 #0366 þ
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Carroll....

And the ones who want to "add you" on Messenger aren't really interested
in being your "friend", unless you want to pay to see their "hot
photos". And that's a road I'd rather not travel down.

What bothers me most is that they are like spam... not so much to even
sell you anything (if they do, it is a bonus). In spam, what they really
want you to do, is to hit that spot that says "Unsubscribe".. that
confirms that the email address is real and viable, and they can sell that
to other spammers. That's where the real money is...

In Messenger, you basically have two choises... Ignore or Deny. If you "Ignore", that only means for that session. Next time you log in, you
are greeted by the same requests all over. If you choose "Deny", that gets
rid of them, but in the process, they receive a denial notice, and now
know that is a viable Messenger account...

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 04/21/2010 at 21:07

---
þ MM þ I am Porky Pig of Borg. Prepare to be assimi..asisim..to be a robot!
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Doug....

I know... in any democratic government, it is actually the beuracracy which runs things, and although you are part of that, you aren't a big enough wheel, right? <GG>

Right.

You'd be amazed at how many people don't realize the truth of your statement.

I wish more people did understand that truth, because then we could do
away with the elections of people who really don't do much, and save the
cost of those elections.... and probably get more done, faster...

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 04/21/2010 at 21:11

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þ MM 1.1 #0366 þ If it has feelings, its not cooked enough!
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are greeted by the same requests all over. If you choose "Deny", that gets GH>rid of them, but in the process, they receive a denial notice, and now GH>know that is a viable Messenger account...

I must have misunderstood something. I thought that every time I
clicked on Deny/block, Messenger reported that "don't worry, we won't
tell". I also click on the "Report as a spammer" link.


-=> Carroll McAllister on 4/22/2010 at 2:25 PM <=-

Coming to you "almost live" from Searcy, Arkansas

carrollmcallister@earthlink.net




---
þ OLXWin 1.00b þ !ti tner uoy ,reeb yub tnod uoY
þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Los Angeles, Ca þ www.techware.dynip.com

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I know... in any democratic government, it is actually the

beuracracy

which runs things, and although you are part of that, you aren't a

big

enough wheel, right? <GG>

Right.

You'd be amazed at how many people don't realize the truth of your statement.

I wish more people did understand that truth, because then we could do
away with the elections of people who really don't do much, and save the cost of those elections.... and probably get more done, faster...

You're so right. Plus, those elected officials are not truly
interested in anything approaching long-term viability on any of their pet projects. They only have a four-year view at best. You can't run a business that way and you certainly can't do justice for your country either.

In my opinion.
---
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Carroll....

I must have misunderstood something. I thought that every time I
clicked on Deny/block, Messenger reported that "don't worry, we won't tell". I also click on the "Report as a spammer" link.

I don't know... "deny" impies that the person being denied has
knowledge of that fact. "Ignore", to me, would mean you are not responding to them, but pretending they don't exist.

And Trillian doesn't have a "report as spammer" link...

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 04/28/2010 at 18:26

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þ MM 1.1 #0366 þ Of all the people I've met you're certainly one of them
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Doug....

You're so right. Plus, those elected officials are not truly
interested in anything approaching long-term viability on any of their pet projects. They only have a four-year view at best. You can't run a

business

that way and you certainly can't do justice for your country either.

Might we then nominate you for the first ever position of Dictator
General of Canada? <G>

In my opinion.

I thought that was supposed to be "in my HUMBLE opinion"... oh, wait...
I forgot who I was talking to <GG>

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 04/28/2010 at 18:28

---
þ MM 1.1 #0366 þ -0.809016994 -- the sine of the Beast.
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Hi Gregg.

Just downloaded a packet only to have MailMaker tell me it wasn't a valid zipfile. Rather than try and futz around with it, I decided to reply online.

We'll see how well that works out.

On 4/28/2010 6:29 PM, GREGG HOMMEL wrote to DOUG POWLESS:

You're so right. Plus, those elected officials are not truly
interested in anything approaching long-term viability on any of their

pet

projects. They only have a four-year view at best. You can't run a

business

that way and you certainly can't do justice for your country either.

Might we then nominate you for the first ever position of Dictator
General of Canada? <G>

*sighs* May as well. Seeing as I have to put up with a broken leg for a while

anyway. It'll give me something to do.

In my opinion.

I thought that was supposed to be "in my HUMBLE opinion"... oh, wait...
I forgot who I was talking to <GG>

Don't make that mistake ever again. Are we clear on this?
þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Los Angeles, Ca þ www.techware.dynip.com

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Carroll....

I am afraid that I am still on the dark (fairly normal for me <G>)... GH>how would they drop support for OE? The same settings you would use in

I thought I was the only one having trouble "seeing the light" on this
one. OE shipped with just about every MS OS except Vista and later, so
I'm confused as well. <G>

Thank you, thank you! I was beginning to think that I was missing
something here, that there was some way to drop support for OE, when it was MSFT that changed it in Vista, but didn't drop support for it, even
then...

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 03/02/2010 at 17:17

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Thank you, thank you! I was beginning to think that I was missing GH>something here, that there was some way to drop support for OE, when it was GH>MSFT that changed it in Vista, but didn't drop support for it, even GH>then...

OE is still on this system. I don't use it, but it's there. Since all
it ever was, was a basic e-mail client and newsgroup reader, I don't
know how they could drop support for it. Unless Barry is talking about
bug and security fixes. Even then, I would think they're still
releasing those, since XP is still being supported after a fashion until
2014.


-=> Carroll McAllister on 3/2/2010 at 7:47 PM <=-

Coming to you "almost live" from Searcy, Arkansas

carrollmcallister@earthlink.net




---
þ OLXWin 1.00b þ "I love you, you love me, lets hang Barney from a tree."
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About a month earlier I had received a message from "Microsoft Support"

I'd be suspicious about any message from "Microsoft Support." They
don't normally send out e-mails like that, unless you've signed up for
some sort of mailing list, like the TechNet list, or something like
that.

(kill date in the e-mail was the first; I couldn't connect starting the BM>second) as when my unable to connect started I downloaded Live and was

I just sent you an e-mail from my copy of Outlook Express on this
machine. It went out just fine.


-=> Carroll McAllister on 3/3/2010 at 10:21 AM <=-

Coming to you "almost live" from Searcy, Arkansas

carrollmcallister@earthlink.net




---
þ OLXWin 1.00b þ If ignorance is bliss, why aren't there more happy folk?
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Wasn't along the lines of strong-arm tactics but removal of support for Outlook Express. In this case it seemed to be less of a hassle to
switch than fight (to paraphrase an old-old cigarette commercial <g>).

I am afraid that I am still on the dark (fairly normal for me

<G>)... how would they drop support for OE? The same settings you would use
in

Thunderbird would be used in OE... the same POP address, SMTP
address, and so on...

Can't really answer that as I don't know what was done on their end. On
this end merrily using OE. Next morning unable to connect: think I got
an error message indicating user name anr/or password invalid. Same
error that night and the next morning.

About a month earlier I had received a message from "Microsoft Support"
(may or may not be the exact name) indicating OE would no longer be able
to be used effective such-and-such a date, do blah-blah to remain
connected. Yeah, whatever - I had received a similar message a year or
so ago and nothing happened, plus one wants to be rather cautious when receiving generic messages like that, and (allegedly) from that kind of source. Plus there was nothing on the Qwest site (phone copmany/ISP).

Nothing more was received -- would have figured they would have sent out
a second and possible third e-mail reminding users to switch from OE to Windows Live if they hadn't already.

As the 'kill date' in the one and only e-mail was essentially the same
(kill date in the e-mail was the first; I couldn't connect starting the second) as when my unable to connect started I downloaded Live and was
able to reconnect. ...For poops and giggles did try to use OE a few
times in the month following and it refused to connect.

¯ ®
¯ Barry_Martin_3@ ®
¯ @MSN.COM ®
¯ ®


... Q: What did one leftover say to the other? A: Foiled again!
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Carroll....

it ever was, was a basic e-mail client and newsgroup reader, I don't
know how they could drop support for it. Unless Barry is talking about

I can't see how his ISP would, but do know that MSFT doesn't support it
in fact. The last updates to OE (whenever they were) were, I belive,
thae last updates. As it isn't really part of the OS, but an "add on",
they could do this, just as they could remove Windows Mail from Win 7...

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 03/03/2010 at 20:35

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Barry.....

Can't really answer that as I don't know what was done on their end. On this end merrily using OE. Next morning unable to connect: think I got
an error message indicating user name anr/or password invalid. Same
error that night and the next morning.

Okay... but I am afraid that I can't see how this could be a problem
with using OE to connect. I can see it as being a problem with this...

About a month earlier I had received a message from "Microsoft Support" (may or may not be the exact name) indicating OE would no longer be able
to be used effective such-and-such a date, do blah-blah to remain

Microsoft does not, repeat NOT, ever send spam email messages to the
general populus telling them any such thing or any thing at all, for that matter. Any "blanket" email message you receive from Microsoft Support
is likely to be a) spam, b) virus infested, c) a phishing email, or d)
all of the above. If you received and opened such an email, you may have inadvertently infected yourself with something which would cause OE to
work incorrectly. As example, a trojan style thing which uses your OE to
send "spreading" spam out, also purporting to be from MSFT, and appearing
to not connect to prevent you from interfering.

Sorry, but anything I ever receive from Microsoft, in any form other
than a direct reply to something I queried them abgout (and then, it is
not from "Microsoft Support" but from an individual at MSFT) is never
opened, but deleted immediately.

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 03/03/2010 at 20:38

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Microsoft does not, repeat NOT, ever send spam email messages to the GH>general populus telling them any such thing or any thing at all, for that

As Barry pointed out (finally), what he was talking about was they
dropped support for accessing Hotmail and other Windows Live e-mail
addresses via Outlook Express. And, M$ did sent out some sort of notice
about that. I do remember that now.


-=> Carroll McAllister on 3/4/2010 at 9:05 PM <=-

Coming to you "almost live" from Searcy, Arkansas

carrollmcallister@earthlink.net




---
þ OLXWin 1.00b þ !ywercs elttil a og sgniht semitemoS
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About a month earlier I had received a message from "Microsoft Support"

I'd be suspicious about any message from "Microsoft Support."
They don't normally send out e-mails like that, unless you've
signed up for some sort of mailing list, like the TechNet list,
or something like that.

Well, that was basically why I ignored it. Even if it had said it was
from Qwest I would have had suspicions. No inserts with the telephone
bill either.

(kill date in the e-mail was the first; I couldn't connect starting the
second) as when my unable to connect started I downloaded Live and was

I just sent you an e-mail from my copy of Outlook Express on this
machine. It went out just fine.

<Checking there> Yup: "coming to you "almost live" from Searcy,
Arkansas - temporarily using Outlook Express <G>" More of a problem on
this end -- they (Qwest, MSN, someone) stopped supporting it.

¯ ®
¯ Barry_Martin_3@ ®
¯ @MSN.COM ®
¯ ®


...
Q. What kind of poem can you find in outer space?
A. Uni-verse!
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Can't really answer that as I don't know what was done on their end. On this end merrily using OE. Next morning unable to connect: think I got
an error message indicating user name anr/or password invalid. Same
error that night and the next morning.

Okay... but I am afraid that I can't see how this could be a
problem with using OE to connect. I can see it as being a problem
with this...

I don't know: the day after the message said it wasn't going to work it
stopped working and never worked again.

About a month earlier I had received a message from "Microsoft Support" (may or may not be the exact name) indicating OE would no longer be able to be used effective such-and-such a date, do blah-blah to remain

Microsoft does not, repeat NOT, ever send spam email messages to
the general populus telling them any such thing or any thing at

Right. Which made me highly suspicious of that e-mail. Did check a few things: looked like it came from the correct source, but that probably
could be altered too. I never replied ("Xujan! We have live Amelican!")
but did keep Just In Case.

received and opened such an email, you may have inadvertently
infected yourself with something which would cause OE to work
incorrectly. As example, a trojan style thing which uses your OE
to send "spreading" spam out, also purporting to be from MSFT,
and appearing to not connect to prevent you from interfering.

Hmmm: but wouldn't an AV utility have caught this, either during or after
the fact? Geek SuperHero, Avast! CCleaner, Spybot, even Microsoft' sown "Malicios Software Removal Tool"? (not questioning you. more
questioning the various utilities.)


¯ ®
¯ Barry_Martin_3@ ®
¯ @MSN.COM ®
¯ ®


... I'm not illiterate! My parents were married...
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thae last updates. As it isn't really part of the OS, but an "add on", GH>they could do this, just as they could remove Windows Mail from Win 7...

Well, I was able to send him an e-mail message from the copy of Outlook
Express installed on this XP Home w/SP3 system. Sending and receiving
both worked, after I changed the settings to suit Avast.


-=> Carroll McAllister on 3/4/2010 at 8:48 PM <=-

Coming to you "almost live" from Searcy, Arkansas

carrollmcallister@earthlink.net




---
þ OLXWin 1.00b þ !Desufnoc Yrev Si Enilgat Siht
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<Checking there> Yup: "coming to you "almost live" from Searcy,
Arkansas - temporarily using Outlook Express <G>" More of a problem on BM>this end -- they (Qwest, MSN, someone) stopped supporting it.

As we found out later, it really was Microsoft. I had forgotten about
them disabling access to Hotmail and MSN addresses from within Outlook
Express.


-=> Carroll McAllister on 3/6/2010 at 11:33 AM <=-

Coming to you "almost live" from Searcy, Arkansas

carrollmcallister@earthlink.net




---
þ OLXWin 1.00b þ "Hit me again, I love it!" Saddam Hussein
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If you had to change something to get the two to work together, please GH>let me know. Ondrej has been quite interested in the things stated here GH>about Avast already... I am sure he would love to hear about that...

I had to turn off SSL/TLS encryption on the server settings, at the
behest of Avast, which stated that it would handle the encryption
itself.


-=> Carroll McAllister on 3/6/2010 at 11:58 AM <=-

Coming to you "almost live" from Searcy, Arkansas

carrollmcallister@earthlink.net




---
þ OLXWin 1.00b þ "To err is human, to forgive....$5.00"
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1) Then that would not be Barry's ISP dropping support for OE, but MSFT GH>changing something

I never stated with any degree of certainty what was or was not dropped.
I just offered suggestions.

2) There was no change in OE, nor did OE drop support for Hotmail, etc. GH>It was actually the other way around... Hotmail dropped support for the GH>things in OE that allowed a Hotmail (non POP3) account to be accessed GH>using a POP3 type email application

And the difference from what I said was...?

Microsoft dropped the support, which is what I think I said.


-=> Carroll McAllister on 3/6/2010 at 12:00 PM <=-

Coming to you "almost live" from Searcy, Arkansas

carrollmcallister@earthlink.net




---
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Carroll....

Well, I was able to send him an e-mail message from the copy of Outlook Express installed on this XP Home w/SP3 system. Sending and receiving
both worked, after I changed the settings to suit Avast.

Interesting. But what do you mean "changing the settings to suit
Avast"? I have never changed a thing in OE, WM, Outlook, or any other email app I have tried (and I did try lots) "to suit Avast".

If you had to change something to get the two to work together, please
let me know. Ondrej has been quite interested in the things stated here
about Avast already... I am sure he would love to hear about that...

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 03/06/2010 at 07:51

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Carroll....

As Barry pointed out (finally), what he was talking about was they
dropped support for accessing Hotmail and other Windows Live e-mail addresses via Outlook Express. And, M$ did sent out some sort of notice about that. I do remember that now.

1) Then that would not be Barry's ISP dropping support for OE, but MSFT changing something
2) There was no change in OE, nor did OE drop support for Hotmail, etc.
It was actually the other way around... Hotmail dropped support for the
things in OE that allowed a Hotmail (non POP3) account to be accessed
using a POP3 type email application

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 03/06/2010 at 07:55

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Barry.....

I don't know: the day after the message said it wasn't going to work it stopped working and never worked again.

But your OP said something about your ISP dropping support for OEW,
while in reality, it now appears that you were talking about the ability
for OE to access Hotmail via POP3, which was dropped by MSFT... in
Hotmail, not OE. MSFT changed Hotmail so that it no longer supported access to

it via a POP3 client.

About a month earlier I had received a message from "Microsoft

Support"

(may or may not be the exact name) indicating OE would no longer be

able

to be used effective such-and-such a date, do blah-blah to remain

Knowing what I do now, I would hazard a guess that you did NOT receive
that email via a regular email address, but through your Hotmail
address. MSFT does not EVER send out broad spectrum emails about anything such

as that. They do, however, send emails specifically to Hotmail clients
to inform them of changes (critical, usually) to Hotmail itself. That
isn't the same as sending an email to everyone in the world in case they
use OE.

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 03/06/2010 at 07:58

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Barry....

A little checking at http://www.qwest.com/internethelp/email/:

A little careful reading of that (thanks for the URL, BTW <G>) would
clear up all of the confusion... this has nothing whatsoever to do with support or lack of support for OE. It has everything to do with Hotmail
(not Qwest... Hotmail) support of POP3 clients to access their web based
email system.

The whole deal was a Hotmail situation... nothing whatsoever to do with
OE, Thunderbird or any other POP3 email client, but a situation caused
by the removal in Hotmail of support for POP3 access (other than, I
believe, for certain premium accounts)

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 03/06/2010 at 08:04

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þ MM 1.1 #0366 þ The scenery only changes for the lead dog.
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Carroll...

I had to turn off SSL/TLS encryption on the server settings, at the
behest of Avast, which stated that it would handle the encryption
itself.

Your ISP uses SSL/TLS encryption? Do you know how rare that is, these
days? Well, I don't know about your side of the border, but on this one,
it is extremely rare, so I would nevr have thought of that....

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 03/07/2010 at 09:31

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Carroll...

And the difference from what I said was...?

None... I simply summarised...

Microsoft dropped the support, which is what I think I said.

I think you did too, but Barry didn't. Way back in the OP, he either
said it was his ISP, or implied such...

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 03/07/2010 at 09:33

---
þ MM 1.1 #0366 þ Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines.
þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Los Angeles, Ca þ www.techware.dynip.com

--- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462
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þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ Capitol City Online * KY/US * 502/875-8938 * cco.ath.cx
* Origin: ILink: CCO - capitolcityonline.net (454:3/105)

Barry....

abbreviated version of another (Outlook)? Let's try this Live thing --
if I don't like it I can always try the work-around or another e-mail client.

Might I suggest that you start looking at another email client, say
something like Thunderbird? Before we started the Win 7 beta, rumour had it (from some dead on reliable sources) that Win 7 would no longer include Windows Mail, so I went looking for a replacement. Obviously, WLM was
my first "look".... and very shortly after that, I went looking at
others. In the end, I decided to use Outlook, but WLM never made it into even the top 20 possibilities.

As you indicated, they probably did a mass mailing based on "Outlook Express = True, Qwest address = True" sort of thing. LIS, I would have

Did you ever look at which email address it came to? I would actually
suspect, knowing what I know now about the situation, that it had nothing
to do with Qwest, and that MSFT sent it to all Hotmail users (I even
vaguely recall getting something, but since I don't do Hotmail via
POP3...) at their Hotmail address, which would make it far more directed than normal spam. And because you had OE set to get your Hotmail emails via
POP3, you saw it in OE, not on the Hotmail site...

earlier message, I looked for but didn't find anything on the Qwest site indicating Outlook Express was on its way out. (Or at least having to be modified from what currently works.) Seems to me that would have been

As noted above, I doubt that Qwest had anything to do with it. It was
strictly MSFT, who changed Hotmail settings, not Qwest that changed
anything. And I would hazard a guess that OE would still work for Qwest emails... just not for Hotmail ones, as it no longer supports POP3 access other than in the costly "Premium" service. And this isn't just for OE, but for any POP3 client. Outlook would work because it is not only a POP3 client...

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 03/07/2010 at 09:35

---
þ MM þ Periodically spray diskettes with insecticide to prevent system bugs
f+
þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Los Angeles, Ca þ www.techware.dynip.com

--- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462
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þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ Capitol City Online * KY/US * 502/875-8938 * cco.ath.cx
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I don't know: the day after the message said it wasn't going to work it stopped working and never worked again.

But your OP said something about your ISP dropping support for
OEW, while in reality, it now appears that you were talking about
the ability for OE to access Hotmail via POP3, which was dropped
by MSFT... in Hotmail, not OE. MSFT changed Hotmail so that it no
longer supported access to it via a POP3 client.

Right: wrong word usage, mixed with not-totally-correct facts. Synopsis
from this end, Outlook Express no longer works. The suspicious e-mail
from 'Microsoft' was correct. There is a work-around (link in the
e-mail) but is it worth it to me to go through all that work to run a
utility that appears to be outdated, plus has always been the
abbreviated version of another (Outlook)? Let's try this Live thing --
if I don't like it I can always try the work-around or another e-mail
client.

About a month earlier I had received a message from "Microsoft

upport"

(may or may not be the exact name) indicating OE would no longer be

bl

to be used effective such-and-such a date, do blah-blah to remain

Knowing what I do now, I would hazard a guess that you did NOT
receive that email via a regular email address, but through your
Hotmail address. MSFT does not EVER send out broad spectrum
emails about anything such as that. They do, however, send emails specifically to Hotmail clients to inform them of changes
(critical, usually) to Hotmail itself. That isn't the same as
sending an email to everyone in the world in case they use OE.

Well, admittedly I was very suspicious of the mass-mailing from
Microsoft; heck, I'm even suspicious of the ones from Qwest! (The phone company/ISP.) "Analysis" of the e-mail -- spelling, grammar, format,
scanning the raw format (shows the code) indicated it looked ligit but
since I'm not remotely trained in that phishing/trojan/virus type of
stuff....

As you indicated, they probably did a mass mailing based on "Outlook
Express = True, Qwest address = True" sort of thing. LIS, I would have
been more comfortable if it had been branded with both Microsoft and
Qwest, though still would have checked it out. ...As I mentioned in an earlier message, I looked for but didn't find anything on the Qwest site indicating Outlook Express was on its way out. (Or at least having to be modified from what currently works.) Seems to me that would have been
worth an announcement. I call the store's help Desk every so often --
on the recording before one gets to the Hit 1 for this Option part they
have a 'headline' saying they are aware of several issues. If my
problem is listed and it's a system-wide outage without additional instructions I hang up -- no reason in havign a live person tell me the
same thing.

¯ ®
¯ Barry_Martin_3@ ®
¯ @MSN.COM ®
¯ ®


... Close only counts horseshoes, hand grenades, sloppy kiss.
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47
þ wcECHO 4.2 ÷ ILink: The Safe BBS þ Bettendorf, IA
þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Los Angeles, Ca þ www.techware.dynip.com

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þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ Capitol City Online * KY/US * 502/875-8938 * cco.ath.cx
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would clear up all of the confusion... this has nothing
whatsoever to do with support or lack of support for OE. It has
everything to do with Hotmail (not Qwest... Hotmail) support of
POP3 clients to access their web based email system.

BTW, the original question which brought all this up was about me not
sure if the animated GIFs worked in Windows Live Mail. The answer is
"yes but" -- of course! <g> They don't necessarily show in the original/created message. Quick test/verification was to send a message
to yourself with an animated GIF, as suggested in this link:

http://forums.techarena.in/windows-vista-mail/1096283.htm

And in case one is too lazy, here it is (BTW, I'm running XP):


Gif 's don't move using Windows live mail
Windows Vista Mail

Old 01-01-2009
Eek
Posts: n/a
Gif 's don't move using Windows live mail

My Gif's don't move since I use Windows live mail. In outlook express
they work wel. The emoticons that are in windows live mail move.

What can I do about the Gif's?

--

Just insert the animated Gif into a HTML email, and send it.
Many of the Vista programs, like Windows Explorer, Photo Gallery, and
Windows Live Mail, no longer show animated gif files. WLM will to show
an animated picture in a received message, but not in a compose message.
Try sending one to yourself.

That last sentence was the forehead-slapper!
---
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Your ISP uses SSL/TLS encryption? Do you know how rare that is, these

I just checked, and apparently Earthlink doesn't. They use a different
port, but they don't require SSL/TLS.

Gmail, however, does require SSL.

http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=75291


-=> Carroll McAllister on 3/7/2010 at 9:12 PM <=-

Coming to you "almost live" from Searcy, Arkansas

carrollmcallister@earthlink.net




---
þ OLXWin 1.00b þ "Instant theatre! I love it!" -- TV's Frank
þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Los Angeles, Ca þ www.techware.dynip.com

--- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462
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---
þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ Capitol City Online * KY/US * 502/875-8938 * cco.ath.cx
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Microsoft dropped the support, which is what I think I said.

I think you did too, but Barry didn't. Way back in the OP, he either
said it was his ISP, or implied such...

I think the problem was I don't recall that he mentioned the fact that
he was using Outlook Express to access MSN/Hotmail/Windows Live
addresses. After he provided that detail, I understood, and remembered
seeing that at the time.

However, one can apparently still access Hotmail via POP/SMTP, as
Thunderbird 3.x automatically sets itself up to access Hotmail via POP.


-=> Carroll McAllister on 3/7/2010 at 9:16 PM <=-

Coming to you "almost live" from Searcy, Arkansas

carrollmcallister@earthlink.net




---
þ OLXWin 1.00b þ "50 Ways To Cleave Your Lover", by Lorena Bobbitt
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--- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462
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---
þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ Capitol City Online * KY/US * 502/875-8938 * cco.ath.cx
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abbreviated version of another (Outlook)? Let's try this Live thing -- BM>if I don't like it I can always try the work-around or another e-mail BM>client.

Thunderbird 3 automatically sets itself up for Hotmail. I would assume
it works for MSN as well. Of course, you know what happens when you
assume. <G>

As you indicated, they probably did a mass mailing based on "Outlook BM>Express = True, Qwest address = True" sort of thing. LIS, I would have

It wasn't based on your ISP. Microsoft itself was dropping support for accessing their e-mail properties via the "Webdav" feature. You can, apparently, still access it via POP3/SMTP.


-=> Carroll McAllister on 3/7/2010 at 9:33 PM <=-

Coming to you "almost live" from Searcy, Arkansas

carrollmcallister@earthlink.net




---
þ OLXWin 1.00b þ "Energize!" said Picard and the pink bunny appeared...
þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Los Angeles, Ca þ www.techware.dynip.com

--- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462
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þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ Capitol City Online * KY/US * 502/875-8938 * cco.ath.cx
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other than in the costly "Premium" service. And this isn't just for OE, but GH>for any POP3 client. Outlook would work because it is not only a POP3 GH>client...

pop3.live.com is the server Thunderbird uses to access my Hotmail
account.

When I first set up my e-mail accounts in Thunderbird 3, it asks for
your e-mail address, and then loads what it thinks is the proper
settings for that address. pop3.live.com is the server it uses to
download my Hotmail e-mail. And, it *does* download it from that
server. One advantage to accessing Hotmail via Thunderbird, is I don't
see the junk mail folder that shows up when accessing the same account
via Outlook.

It's amazing how much junk shows up at an address that I hardly use.
What's ironic is the fact that Microsoft's spam filters quite often
identify mail from their own Windows Live domains as spam! I have to
tell Outlook that it's not spam, before it makes it to my in-box. <G>


-=> Carroll McAllister on 3/7/2010 at 9:40 PM <=-

Coming to you "almost live" from Searcy, Arkansas

carrollmcallister@earthlink.net




---
þ OLXWin 1.00b þ !laiceps er'uoy siht daer nac uoy fI
þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Los Angeles, Ca þ www.techware.dynip.com

--- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462
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---
þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ Capitol City Online * KY/US * 502/875-8938 * cco.ath.cx
* Origin: ILink: CCO - capitolcityonline.net (454:3/105)

<Checking there> Yup: "coming to you "almost live" from Searcy,
Arkansas - temporarily using Outlook Express <G>" More of a problem on
this end -- they (Qwest, MSN, someone) stopped supporting it.

As we found out later, it really was Microsoft. I had forgotten
about them disabling access to Hotmail and MSN addresses from
within Outlook Express.

So I was right -- sorta...... <g>

¯ ®
¯ Barry_Martin_3@ ®
¯ @MSN.COM ®
¯ ®


... Do you have files or flies on your hard drive?
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47
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þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ Capitol City Online * KY/US * 502/875-8938 * cco.ath.cx
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Barry....

Many of the Vista programs, like Windows Explorer, Photo Gallery, and Windows Live Mail, no longer show animated gif files. WLM will to show

OK, you say so... I never use animated GIF files, so wouldn't know.

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 03/09/2010 at 11:46

---
þ MM 1.1 #0366 þ Pi Rý? No! Pi R *round*! *Cornbread* Rý!
þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Los Angeles, Ca þ www.techware.dynip.com

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þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ Capitol City Online * KY/US * 502/875-8938 * cco.ath.cx
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Carroll....

I just checked, and apparently Earthlink doesn't. They use a different port, but they don't require SSL/TLS.

Gmail, however, does require SSL.

Okay... I have a Gmail account, but I access it via the web, and not
POP3, simply because, like my Hotmail account, it is a spam catcher.
Whenever a web site insists upon an email address for some reason, and I really want to use that site (most times, if they insist, I go elsewhere), I will give either the Hotmail or Gmail account...

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 03/09/2010 at 11:48

---
þ MM 1.1 #0366 þ The simple explanation always follows the complex solution.
þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Los Angeles, Ca þ www.techware.dynip.com

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Carroll...

I think the problem was I don't recall that he mentioned the fact that
he was using Outlook Express to access MSN/Hotmail/Windows Live

Back in early summer last year, MSFT ceased the use of WebDAV access to Hotmail, which was how Outlook Express obtained your emails. However,
what MSFt didn't tell you was that you could instead, access Hotmail the
same way you do in other email clients, as in this...

http://ask-
leo.com/what_are_windows_live_hotmails_pop3_and_smtp_settings.html

However, one can apparently still access Hotmail via POP/SMTP, as Thunderbird 3.x automatically sets itself up to access Hotmail via POP.

Right... MSFT stopped WebDAV access (via Outlook Express) but has POP3
access, as above, instead, which also works in OE... you just have to
set it up as a "regular" email account, not a Hotmail one..

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 03/09/2010 at 11:57

---
þ MM 1.1 þ I'm a psychic amnesiac. I know in advance what I'll forget.
þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Los Angeles, Ca þ www.techware.dynip.com

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þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ Capitol City Online * KY/US * 502/875-8938 * cco.ath.cx
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abbreviated version of another (Outlook)? Let's try this Live thing --
if I don't like it I can always try the work-around or another e-mail client.

Might I suggest that you start looking at another email client,
say something like Thunderbird? Before we started the Win 7 beta,
rumour had it (from some dead on reliable sources) that Win 7
would no longer include Windows Mail, so I went looking for a
replacement. Obviously, WLM was my first "look".... and very
shortly after that, I went looking at others. In the end, I
decided to use Outlook, but WLM never made it into even the top
20 possibilities.

At the time Windows Live was the cheap-and-easy fix to regain my e-mail.
...Not saying it's good, just was the easiest way. <g>

As you indicated, they probably did a mass mailing based on "Outlook Express = True, Qwest address = True" sort of thing. LIS, I would have

Did you ever look at which email address it came to? I would
actually suspect, knowing what I know now about the situation,
that it had nothing to do with Qwest, and that MSFT sent it to
all Hotmail users (I even vaguely recall getting something, but
since I don't do Hotmail via POP3...) at their Hotmail address,
which would make it far more directed than normal spam. And
because you had OE set to get your Hotmail emails via POP3, you
saw it in OE, not on the Hotmail site...

This line?
Received: from servera05.tk2adsmtp4.msn.com ([207.46.222.225]) by
bay0-mc12-f19.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668);
Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:12:14 -0700

Also:
From: Microsoft Outlook Express team
<communications@microsoft.msn.com>

Though I would suspect the latter could be altered by hackers; not sure
if they could with the first quoted line (the 'Received;' one).

There's also:
Return-Path: communications@microsoft.msn.com

Not sure how easily any of that could be altered, so I took the approach
it could be a real notification from Microsoft so take note, but then it
could be trolling (right word?) so be cautious!

earlier message, I looked for but didn't find anything on the Qwest site indicating Outlook Express was on its way out. (Or at least having to be modified from what currently works.) Seems to me that would have been

As noted above, I doubt that Qwest had anything to do with it. It
was strictly MSFT, who changed Hotmail settings, not Qwest that
changed anything. And I would hazard a guess that OE would still
work for Qwest emails... just not for Hotmail ones, as it no
longer supports POP3 access other than in the costly "Premium"
service. And this isn't just for OE, but for any POP3 client.
Outlook would work because it is not only a POP3 client...

Yes, in a recent search (past week or so) did find information on how to
alter Outlook Express to work; I don't recall seeing the detailed
instructions when I was looking for it last year. (I also noted the
copyright on the PDF instructions was 2010 -- about six months after the change.)

¯ ®
¯ Barry_Martin_3@ ®
¯ @MSN.COM ®
¯ ®


... Joseph Guillotine - I can give your company head start on the competition. --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47
þ wcECHO 4.2 ÷ ILink: The Safe BBS þ Bettendorf, IA
þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Los Angeles, Ca þ www.techware.dynip.com

--- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462
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---
þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ Capitol City Online * KY/US * 502/875-8938 * cco.ath.cx
* Origin: ILink: CCO - capitolcityonline.net (454:3/105)

Hi Carroll!

abbreviated version of another (Outlook)? Let's try this Live thing --
if I don't like it I can always try the work-around or another e-mail
client.

Thunderbird 3 automatically sets itself up for Hotmail. I would
assume it works for MSN as well. Of course, you know what
happens when you assume. <G>

Format C:/ ? <gg>

As you indicated, they probably did a mass mailing based on "Outlook
Express = True, Qwest address = True" sort of thing. LIS, I would have

It wasn't based on your ISP. Microsoft itself was dropping
support for accessing their e-mail properties via the "Webdav"
feature. You can, apparently, still access it via POP3/SMTP.

Right. Probably due to a foggy memory of the incident coupled with
thinking it could be a forgery (from someone other than Microsoft) as
well as feeling if it had been from Qwest, or a follow-up verification
from Qwest, would have made it more valid in my opinion. Plus I didn't
see anything on Qwest's website -- IMO really strange!

¯ ®
¯ Barry_Martin_3@ ®
¯ @MSN.COM ®
¯ ®


... We're going to turn this team around 360 degrees.
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47
þ wcECHO 4.2 ÷ ILink: The Safe BBS þ Bettendorf, IA
þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Los Angeles, Ca þ www.techware.dynip.com

--- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462
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---
þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ Capitol City Online * KY/US * 502/875-8938 * cco.ath.cx
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assume it works for MSN as well. Of course, you know what
happens when you assume. <G>

Format C:/ ? <gg>

No. You make an a** out of u and me. <G>

see anything on Qwest's website -- IMO really strange!

Speaking of strange: the missing laptop hard drive showed up yesterday.
It was on my desk when I got here to the office this morning. Don't
know where it was for a week, but glad it finally made it. Now, I get
the fun of transferring stuff over from the 20GB drive to the 160GB
drive, likely over a USB port. Can you say: take a LONG time?? <G>


-=> Carroll McAllister on 3/9/2010 at 7:57 AM <=-

Coming to you "almost live" from Searcy, Arkansas

carrollmcallister@earthlink.net




---
þ OLXWin 1.00b þ !doog er'uoy ,egassem siht daer nac uoy fI
þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Los Angeles, Ca þ www.techware.dynip.com

--- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462
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---
þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ Capitol City Online * KY/US * 502/875-8938 * cco.ath.cx
* Origin: ILink: CCO - capitolcityonline.net (454:3/105)

Okay... I have a Gmail account, but I access it via the web, and not GH>POP3, simply because, like my Hotmail account, it is a spam catcher.

I'm not that enthralled with accessing my e-mail via a web page. I use
one when I have to, but I prefer getting my e-mail via something like Thunderbird or Outlook.

really want to use that site (most times, if they insist, I go elsewhere),

I

will give either the Hotmail or Gmail account...

Earthlink gives out 10 "disposable" e-mail addresses per account.
They're "throwaway" addresses. The theory is, you only use each address
on one individual "account" that requires an e-mail address. If you
start getting spam at that disposable address, you know who sold/gave away/spammed your e-mail address, and can disable that address.


-=> Carroll McAllister on 3/10/2010 at 12:16 PM <=-

Coming to you "almost live" from Searcy, Arkansas

carrollmcallister@earthlink.net




---
þ OLXWin 1.00b þ "Can I help you, sir?" You have anything I like?
þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Los Angeles, Ca þ www.techware.dynip.com

--- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462
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---
þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ Capitol City Online * KY/US * 502/875-8938 * cco.ath.cx
* Origin: ILink: CCO - capitolcityonline.net (454:3/105)

Right... MSFT stopped WebDAV access (via Outlook Express) but has POP3 GH>access, as above, instead, which also works in OE... you just have to
set it up as a "regular" email account, not a Hotmail one..

And since I access my Hotmail account on the desktop via Outlook, the
thought that he was talking about the problem we now know he had, I
still didn't put the two together. <G>


-=> Carroll McAllister on 3/10/2010 at 12:18 PM <=-

Coming to you "almost live" from Searcy, Arkansas

carrollmcallister@earthlink.net




---
þ OLXWin 1.00b þ What is the recipe for disaster and have you ever tried to
c+
þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Los Angeles, Ca þ www.techware.dynip.com

--- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462
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---
þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ Capitol City Online * KY/US * 502/875-8938 * cco.ath.cx
* Origin: ILink: CCO - capitolcityonline.net (454:3/105)

Hi Carroll!

assume it works for MSN as well. Of course, you know what
happens when you assume. <G>

Format C:/ ? <gg>

No. You make an a** out of u and me. <G>

Ooooo! <g>

see anything on Qwest's website -- IMO really strange!

Speaking of strange: the missing laptop hard drive showed up
yesterday. It was on my desk when I got here to the office this
morning. Don't know where it was for a week, but glad it finally
made it. Now, I get the fun of transferring stuff over from the
20GB drive to the 160GB drive, likely over a USB port. Can you
say: take a LONG time?? <G>

Maybe it was taking a little vacation before getting down to work!
...The transfer job reminds me of back in the old days when I would
transfer files from my DEC Rainbow 100 to the XT. Did it via
null-modemed COM ports and Kermit (communications utility). Sometimes
took overnight to transfer a 400KB disk if I couldn't get the two two
match Byte and Word parameters. (Was supposed to set be able to set
manually but sometimes could not.)

¯ ®
¯ Barry_Martin_3@ ®
¯ @MSN.COM ®
¯ ®


... Bad kids books: Curious George and the high voltage fence.
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Many of the Vista programs, like Windows Explorer, Photo Gallery, and Windows Live Mail, no longer show animated gif files. WLM will to show

OK, you say so... I never use animated GIF files, so wouldn't
know.

I generally don't add pictures, etc., though will if seems applicable to
the conversation. ...Lately getting a lot of ASCII drawing practice:
parents have cable but can't get Channel 7.2. (Found out it was
available, just at something like Channel 254 -- if they subscribe that
high.) Using line drawing to show Dad how to hook up the DTV Converter
Box to the TV. Single line for coax, double (and in blue) for the
audio-video cable. ...Wonder if the 1,000 mile trip is going to be
coming early this year?!


¯ ®
¯ Barry_Martin_3@ ®
¯ @MSN.COM ®
¯ ®


... Some people are like a callus: they show up when the work is finished.
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Carroll...

pop3.live.com is the server Thunderbird uses to access my Hotmail
account.

And it was not POP3 that MSFT changed/discontinued but I believe,
WebDAV.

It's amazing how much junk shows up at an address that I hardly use.

My Hotmail accounts are spam catchers, too <GG>

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 03/09/2010 at 23:58

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It's amazing how much junk shows up at an address that I hardly use.

My Hotmail accounts are spam catchers, too <GG>

I used to get an MSNBC newsletter at that address, but I haven't gotten
one of those in ages. Evidently, I unsubscribed, but I sure don't
remember it. <G>


-=> Carroll McAllister on 3/11/2010 at 8:36 PM <=-

Coming to you "almost live" from Searcy, Arkansas

carrollmcallister@earthlink.net




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GREGG HOMMEL wrote to CARROLL MCALLISTER <=-

Windows Mail. But, I downloaded Windows Live Mail, and that's what I installed.

Windows Live Mail is not a "version" of Windows Mail. It is a
separate entity that the Live team at MSFT has been developing
for years, always without ever listening to their beta testers.
It is not Windows Mail, nor is it Outlook, but a (if you will
excuse the expression) bastard born of neither. It has none of
the good from either Windows Mail, or Outlook, but a lot of the
bad <G>

And what's "funny" either Microsoft or Qwest (telephone company and my
DSL provider) essentially forced me to switch from Outlook Express to
Windows Live about a year ago. _Could_ have retained use of OE but
would have had to go through a bunch of hoops, which may or may not have
been worth it: I don't know if making the changes to OE would have just postponed the eventual forced switch to Windows Mail.

..And since we are on the topic of Windows Mail, I'm having a minor
problem with it. (Hey! I heard that "here we go again"!) Occasionally I
like to insert GIFs and some are animated. When I insert them they are
static (no animation), yet when I get them back (quote back) they are animated, though I'm not sure if on the immediate return (first reply)
or on subsequent responses.

So I guess what the question is, what do I configure so the animated GIF
is animated when I insert it?

¯ ®
¯ Barry_Martin_3@ ®
¯ @MSN.COM ®
¯ ®


... Hello, my name is Sue, I'm a lawyer.
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Barry....

And what's "funny" either Microsoft or Qwest (telephone company and my
DSL provider) essentially forced me to switch from Outlook Express to Windows Live about a year ago. _Could_ have retained use of OE but

How did they do that? I don't see any way they could... even by
removing Outlook Express/Windows Mail from Windows 7, MSFT still can't force anyone to use Windows Live Mail.

So I guess what the question is, what do I configure so the animated GIF
is animated when I insert it?

Haven't any idea, sir. Sorry, but I wouldn't touch Windows Live Mail
with a 10 foot pole (or an 11 foot Ukranian <G>) and have no idea how you might configure it, or even why it doesn't show it properly in the first place...

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 02/26/2010 at 22:22

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And what's "funny" either Microsoft or Qwest (telephone company and my
DSL provider) essentially forced me to switch from Outlook Express to Windows Live about a year ago. _Could_ have retained use of OE but

How did they do that? I don't see any way they could... even by
removing Outlook Express/Windows Mail from Windows 7, MSFT still
can't force anyone to use Windows Live Mail.

Wasn't along the lines of strong-arm tactics but removal of support for Outlook Express. In this case it seemed to be less of a hassle to
switch than fight (to paraphrase an old-old cigarette commercial <g>).

So I guess what the question is, what do I configure so the animated GIF is animated when I insert it?

Haven't any idea, sir. Sorry, but I wouldn't touch Windows Live
Mail with a 10 foot pole (or an 11 foot Ukranian <G>) and have no
idea how you might configure it, or even why it doesn't show it
properly in the first place...

OK. We'll see if someone else has any suggestions.

¯ ®
¯ Barry_Martin_3@ ®
¯ @MSN.COM ®
¯ ®


... Stupid; politically correct. Surfing in Nebraska
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Barry....

Wasn't along the lines of strong-arm tactics but removal of support for Outlook Express. In this case it seemed to be less of a hassle to
switch than fight (to paraphrase an old-old cigarette commercial <g>).

I am afraid that I am still on the dark (fairly normal for me <G>)...
how would they drop support for OE? The same settings you would use in Thunderbird would be used in OE... the same POP address, SMTP address, and
so on...

Gregg in Kitchener, ON on 03/01/2010 at 20:43

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I am afraid that I am still on the dark (fairly normal for me <G>)...
how would they drop support for OE? The same settings you would use in GH>Thunderbird would be used in OE... the same POP address, SMTP address, and GH>so on...

I thought I was the only one having trouble "seeing the light" on this
one. OE shipped with just about every MS OS except Vista and later, so
I'm confused as well. <G>


-=> Carroll McAllister on 3/2/2010 at 9:01 AM <=-

Coming to you "almost live" from Searcy, Arkansas

carrollmcallister@earthlink.net




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