Hi Ky!
> > > Follow-up to the message I wrote this morning.
> > KM> You followin' me? :D
> > Out of morbid curiosity!
> KM> I'll be sure to leave a trail of dead bodies so you get your
> KM> money's worth. <g>
> We talking human or animal?
KM> Bugs. <g>
Computer or insect?!
> The FX-8320 here likes to run about ten degree warmer but that could be
> due to a lot of other factors like rated 125 W for starters. Nowhere
> near the thermal cut-off point.
KM> Which is generally 80C for older CPUs, 100C for more-modern CPUs.
Still seems 'funny' to have a CPU running up to the boiling point of
water! ...Remember the old job about using the CD tray as a cup holder?
Too bad can't run the CPU heat out and use to keep our coffee/tea warm!
Yup: that's the way my tower fan attached: line up Part I, then line up
Part 2 by fiddling with the bracket to fit into the mounting holes of
Part 1. ...Actually not too bad, though I found it easier to see what
was supposed to be done from a YouTube video as opposed to the printed instructions.
Covering up hot stuff is generally a good idea, though if using that
cooling fan to try to cool other stuff maybe not such a good idea. The shroud I had housing the dust buffalos apparently was there to help
direct the hot air towards the rear panel.
KM> Yeah, and now two types of core, one for performance, one for
KM> slow.
Yes: took me a while to figure that one out: "12 core (8p, 4e)". OK,
eight an' four iz twelve, but the 'p' and 'e' didn't have a meaning for
a while. Did finally see spelt out or otherwise defined: performance
and efficiency. ...Then there are the ones that have a sharing... Good Grief!!
KM> Yeah, mine get parts kicked downhill as available too. Then find
KM> some job and take a long time to finally retire to the Closet. <g>
I finally did some sorting out of Parts I'll Probably Never Use. An AGP video card went in that box! Not sure if even worth attempting to list
on eBay. Some time back had randomly checked prices of stuff in that
box - almost more bother than worth, plus how long have those listings
been up?
> The computers being rolled down a level probably will get a bit of an
> upgrade in the process: just adding a SSD for the OS partition really
> speeds up otherwise slow computers!
KM> Yeah, it does wonders for that. Six times the data flow.
Definitely a faster boot; didn't notice any performance change as far as MythTV was concerned. The old/slow computers are pretty much designed
to be used as MythTV Frontends only, though have the capability of a
full Ubuntu system. Not going to be writing letters in the Ironing
Room. Might look up something on the Web. Watch a show while doing
laundry? Sure!
KM> Woah... used to have a couple of vintage fans like that, but got
KM> lost in the Great Northward Migration. High power, noisy, but
KM> dang could they move the air.
Yup! Here now just used for pink noise while sleeping.
I haven't either. More "bigger tends to be quieter". When purchasing
is more "that's a decent price" along with brand, type of sleeve/bearing thing, and dB.
> KM> So... need to find quieter. But not $20 each .
> Probably not!! I've saved some money buy buying more (multi-packs).
KM> Next time you see a good deal, let me know!
Will do! ...Wanna share that 161 minimum order?! <inside joke if
anyone else is reading through this>
> Having an extra 120mm fan on hand is good: you're almost certainly going
> to use it, plus have it now vs waiting to be shipped, plus possibly save
> on shipping.
KM> Yeah. I have some salvaged from power supplies, but would have to
KM> rewire 'em.
I've got some power supplies needing to have the replaced -- mostly the
80 mm fan but maybe a 120. Generally the failed PSUs have also been
smaller output power so almost better to replace the power supply with
one of higher wattage.
> issues, improper air flow, etc. The good news is the open side is
KM> I've found the airflow thing is mostly a myth. They talk a good
KM> line but when temperature is much lower with MY airflow than with
KM> THEIR airflow, and I see that over and over... well, I stopped
KM> worrying about it.
Pretty much good enough for me! I can sort of visualize having a
contained box could cause better air flow as 'force' the air to come in
form this point and be direct out that point. OTOH also seems there
could be a quiet pool of air at the bottom. One computer with a tall
tower case may or may not have had that problem: video card was at the bottom, PSU and fan at the top. I don't recall where the front panel
venting was. Anyway, for some reason I started getting concerned about
a potential lack of/reduction of air flow in the bottom, or at least for
the video card and whatever other cards were down there. Had a fan with
a broken mount, Velcroed it to the bottom of the case to blow up. (Was
he kind of fan with intake from the side.)
KM> So I ditched their stupid shroud, replaced the thoroughly useless
KM> fanless heatsink with a proper if generic heatsink-with-fan,
KM> added an intake fan, and its CPU temperature dropped 40F degrees.
KM> Yes, FORTY DEGREES.
KM> And it never crashed again (at least not until the capacitors
KM> failed).
Take that designers! I'm sort of the opinion there are times when the college-degreed designers know more than I do, but I'm also of the
opinion there are times when they're stuck because that's the way they learned it. Your fan substitution is on example. (And besides, someone
has to invent or discover stuff -- may as well be me!)
KM> Same with leaving the side panels off. Then you don't need to
KM> worry about evacuating the hot air; it leaves all by itself.
KM> Same reason I like to have a top vent, to let it escape.
Heat rises!
KM> I'd leave the open side a fingerwidth away from the side of the
KM> cabinet, to let more hot air escape.
That's pretty much what I'm doing with "BE4" here (the 4th version of
the MythTV Backend). Plus some of the spacing is because that's the
width of the side panel cover I'm storing next to unit so it doesn't get lost.
KM> Well, given it's where you can't stick your foot into it, I'd
KM> just leave enough room for circulation and not worry about it.
OK; probably was going to end up that way anyway.
KM> Bullet ran with both sides off for years; only reason they're on
KM> now is cuz it's not running due to Rearranging Of Hardware.
KM> Bullet's southbridge likes to run at 220F, so the less between it
KM> and the open air, the better.
I might figure a way to blow air across it. Attach an old CPU fan
(~40mm -- whatever the sizing is - going by memory) to an L-bracket
attached to the drive bay case or some place sturdy/convenient.
KM> Got a copper heatsink for that but so far have not quite figured
KM> out how to make it fit... might need a different one.
My fan idea might be easier than metalworking!
> > > Follow-up to the message I wrote this morning.
> > KM> You followin' me? :D
> > Out of morbid curiosity!
> KM> I'll be sure to leave a trail of dead bodies so you get your
> KM> money's worth. <g>
> We talking human or animal?
KM> Bugs. <g>
Computer or insect?!
Uh, I can't tell, they're squished flat. Should I have 3D printed
'em??
> The FX-8320 here likes to run about ten degree warmer but that could be
> due to a lot of other factors like rated 125 W for starters. Nowhere
> near the thermal cut-off point.
KM> Which is generally 80C for older CPUs, 100C for more-modern CPUs. Still seems 'funny' to have a CPU running up to the boiling point of
water! ...Remember the old job about using the CD tray as a cup holder?
Too bad can't run the CPU heat out and use to keep our coffee/tea warm!
LOL yeah... tho I knew someone who had a K6-2 era AMD and used it
to heat their garage!
Yup: that's the way my tower fan attached: line up Part I, then line up
Part 2 by fiddling with the bracket to fit into the mounting holes of
Part 1. ...Actually not too bad, though I found it easier to see what
was supposed to be done from a YouTube video as opposed to the printed instructions.
Some are easier than others. I have an old Zalman that I never
did figure out how to mount (not that it was likely a good idea
anyway, being very topheavy). But the complicated-looking tower
with the complicated instructions just sat in place and fit
instantly.
Covering up hot stuff is generally a good idea, though if using that
cooling fan to try to cool other stuff maybe not such a good idea. The shroud I had housing the dust buffalos apparently was there to help
direct the hot air towards the rear panel.
Actually, it was a barn. <g>
KM> Yeah, and now two types of core, one for performance, one for
KM> slow.
Yes: took me a while to figure that one out: "12 core (8p, 4e)". OK,
eight an' four iz twelve, but the 'p' and 'e' didn't have a meaning for
a while. Did finally see spelt out or otherwise defined: performance
and efficiency. ...Then there are the ones that have a sharing... Good Grief!!
That when I fling up my hands and go "Fine, just so long as it's
faster than what I had."
KM> Yeah, mine get parts kicked downhill as available too. Then find
KM> some job and take a long time to finally retire to the Closet. <g>
I finally did some sorting out of Parts I'll Probably Never Use. An AGP video card went in that box! Not sure if even worth attempting to list
on eBay. Some time back had randomly checked prices of stuff in that
box - almost more bother than worth, plus how long have those listings
been up?
Older parts are in some demand for retro gaming, and AGP are
ideal for the very desirable 440BX chipset. Given the state of
things, I certainly wouldn't trash any that still work, and if
someone does need one... they ain't makin' any more of 'em.
> The computers being rolled down a level probably will get a bit of an
> upgrade in the process: just adding a SSD for the OS partition really
> speeds up otherwise slow computers!
KM> Yeah, it does wonders for that. Six times the data flow.
Definitely a faster boot; didn't notice any performance change as far as MythTV was concerned. The old/slow computers are pretty much designed
That's because once the system is fast enough to decode the
video, bus speed is the limiting factor -- BUT even old slow IDE
more than suffices for the speed that data is read for video
playback, at least til you get into many-GB files and very high definition. The average 4GB HD movie file is no problem.
to be used as MythTV Frontends only, though have the capability of a
full Ubuntu system. Not going to be writing letters in the Ironing
Room. Might look up something on the Web. Watch a show while doing laundry? Sure!
You have an Ironing Room??!!! that's even more retro than my
Closet!
(I own an iron. It has never been out of the box. I don't know
where it is.)
KM> Woah... used to have a couple of vintage fans like that, but got
KM> lost in the Great Northward Migration. High power, noisy, but
KM> dang could they move the air.
Yup! Here now just used for pink noise while sleeping.
You can download every sort of color-noise nowadays, and just run
it through an MP3 player. Advantage being you can tune it for
pitch and volume a lot easier than a real fan. Downside is it
lacks the motor harmonics.
I haven't either. More "bigger tends to be quieter". When purchasing
is more "that's a decent price" along with brand, type of sleeve/bearing thing, and dB.
Sleeve bearing: where's the owl? :)
> KM> So... need to find quieter. But not $20 each .
> Probably not!! I've saved some money buy buying more (multi-packs).
KM> Next time you see a good deal, let me know!
Will do! ...Wanna share that 161 minimum order?! <inside joke if
anyone else is reading through this>
Sure! I can use a couple dozen. <g>
> Having an extra 120mm fan on hand is good: you're almost certainly going
> to use it, plus have it now vs waiting to be shipped, plus possibly save
> on shipping.
KM> Yeah. I have some salvaged from power supplies, but would have to
KM> rewire 'em.
I've got some power supplies needing to have the replaced -- mostly the
80 mm fan but maybe a 120. Generally the failed PSUs have also been
smaller output power so almost better to replace the power supply with
one of higher wattage.
I've replaced PSU fans often enough, but there I don't bother
with the wiring or plugs (they're often weird or hardwired), I
just use a fan with a molex, run the wires out the back along
with the other wires, and plug it into one of the loose power
connectors. It looks like mobius PSU, but works fine.
Reverse, tho, cannibalized PSU fans usually don't have the right
plug for anything, or no plug at all, but no worries, if the PSU
is dead I don't feel bad cutting off a molex and wiring it to the
fan.
> issues, improper air flow, etc. The good news is the open side is
KM> I've found the airflow thing is mostly a myth. They talk a good
KM> line but when temperature is much lower with MY airflow than with
KM> THEIR airflow, and I see that over and over... well, I stopped
KM> worrying about it.
Pretty much good enough for me! I can sort of visualize having a
contained box could cause better air flow as 'force' the air to come in
form this point and be direct out that point. OTOH also seems there
That's the theory, but in practice I find it doesn't work for
bleep. Same with the shrouds on some vidcards -- yeah, it directs
the air around the heatsink, but it also prevents heat from
escaping the area. The ones I've checked have all run cooler
minus the shroud.
could be a quiet pool of air at the bottom. One computer with a tall
Which doesn't matter, because there's nothing at the bottom that
cares about heat; in fact it's usually just empty space.
tower case may or may not have had that problem: video card was at the bottom, PSU and fan at the top. I don't recall where the front panel venting was. Anyway, for some reason I started getting concerned about
It's generally at the bottom, but usually is so small it's
worthless. I recall one of our old ILinkers mentioned he'd stick
a screwdriver in there and crank it bigger, and since it was
hidden no one could see that the hole was now big enough to
notice.
The video card should not be at the bottom anyway. It should be
in the slot nearest the CPU, and on some PCIe boards that is the
only slot that's full speed.
Other cards generally don't get hot enough to be a problem. NVMes
run relatively hot, and even tho mine are on adapter cards (one
next to the vidcard, one in bottom slot, cuz that's where the 16x
slots are) even if you stick your hand in there you can't feel
any hot spot. Ambient air suffices, and I'd guess since they're
not up against the mainboard, does more to cool 'em than would a
heatsink.
a broken mount, Velcroed it to the bottom of the case to blow up. (Was
he kind of fan with intake from the side.)
Yeah, I've attached fans however the hell like that. Wedgie has
one hanging from one screw off to the side of the HD cage, cuz
the HD needed extra cooling (MFM campstove) and that was the one
spot where I could secure it with anything. Gremlin has one
hanging off the back of the case with three screws, a rubber
shim, and a twisty-tie, cuz that's where it fit.
Gremlin has a very early ATX case, mainboard that was designed
for AT but swings both ways, and who the hell designed this case
anyway?? Some minor surgery with tin snips later, it was a
perfect fit. Just don't look too close. :)
KM> So I ditched their stupid shroud, replaced the thoroughly useless
KM> fanless heatsink with a proper if generic heatsink-with-fan,
KM> added an intake fan, and its CPU temperature dropped 40F degrees.
KM> Yes, FORTY DEGREES.
KM> And it never crashed again (at least not until the capacitors
KM> failed).
Take that designers! I'm sort of the opinion there are times when the college-degreed designers know more than I do, but I'm also of the
opinion there are times when they're stuck because that's the way they learned it. Your fan substitution is on example. (And besides, someone
has to invent or discover stuff -- may as well be me!)
Yeah, all I could figure is that they never compared it to
standard setups, only to Dell-with-NO-cooling setups. 250 degrees
with no cooling, 170 degrees with our fancy cooling, fantastic
progress!!
...standard cooling like every clone PC in the world, 130
degrees...
KM> Same with leaving the side panels off. Then you don't need to
KM> worry about evacuating the hot air; it leaves all by itself.
KM> Same reason I like to have a top vent, to let it escape.
Heat rises!
Yep, in fact top vent makes for pretty good passive circulation
all by itself. There's a pretty good warm breeze coming out of
Moonbase. <g>
KM> I'd leave the open side a fingerwidth away from the side of the
KM> cabinet, to let more hot air escape.
That's pretty much what I'm doing with "BE4" here (the 4th version of
the MythTV Backend). Plus some of the spacing is because that's the
width of the side panel cover I'm storing next to unit so it doesn't get lost.
Sounds like standard procedure to me. <g>
KM> Well, given it's where you can't stick your foot into it, I'd
KM> just leave enough room for circulation and not worry about it.
OK; probably was going to end up that way anyway.
Poor Argo ran laying on a table for about a year before I got
around to putting it IN a case at all!! I would like to have one
of the workbench doohickeys like Phil's Computer Lab uses for his temporary builds; looks quite convenient. But when I looked, were expensive!
KM> Bullet ran with both sides off for years; only reason they're on
KM> now is cuz it's not running due to Rearranging Of Hardware.
KM> Bullet's southbridge likes to run at 220F, so the less between it
KM> and the open air, the better.
I might figure a way to blow air across it. Attach an old CPU fan
(~40mm -- whatever the sizing is - going by memory) to an L-bracket
attached to the drive bay case or some place sturdy/convenient.
Yeah, Bullet's side panel fan was hooked up and blowing across
stuff, even tho the panel was not attached. "Why is there a
washcloth over the top of that loose side panel?" To stop
vibration where it leans against the desk.
KM> Got a copper heatsink for that but so far have not quite figured
KM> out how to make it fit... might need a different one.
My fan idea might be easier than metalworking!
Beat ya to it <g>
Hi Ky!
Follow-up to the message I wrote this morning.
> Now for the CPU. Looks like between an i5 12600K and i7 12700K (leaning
KM> https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-12700K-vs-Inte
Did check the links -- some new/better detailed information. Actually
this one (truncated) I did find on my own. OK, with Goggle's help. <g>
Did decide to go with the i5 12600K: didn't seem to be worth the extra
money for a processor which seems to be faster only for stuff I don't or
only rarely do. Gives me time to take a sip of my coffee/tea/water!
KM> Fact is the stock cooler usually scrapes by, so better is not an
KM> emergency if you're just doing everyday stuff and not gaming or
Down here someplace there was a link regarding cooler considerations for
the i7-12700K version. As the i5 and i7 are essentially identical
except for the max heat might be good to pay attention! ...Decided on
the Noctura NH-U12S -- the 140 mm version are expensive! (But cheaper
than charcoaling the motherboard and CPU.) Single fan with the ability
to add a second fan. Will monitor with pSensor and see if needed.
Also need to find again the video on "Too Many Fans" -- found in one of
the links and made a note to look at it later in my notes. Would make
sense: need an airflow, and if too strong front-to-back might create a stagnant air pool at the top and bottom of the case because air can't
flow into the main stream easily. Or causes whistles as the air is jet-streamed through! Also thinking too much forced air can pull air
the wrong way through devices like the PSU.
Follow-up to the message I wrote this morning.
You followin' me? :D
> Now for the CPU. Looks like between an i5 12600K and i7 12700K (leaning
KM> https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-12700K-vs-Inte
Did check the links -- some new/better detailed information. Actually
this one (truncated) I did find on my own. OK, with Goggle's help. <g>
Did decide to go with the i5 12600K: didn't seem to be worth the extra
money for a processor which seems to be faster only for stuff I don't or only rarely do. Gives me time to take a sip of my coffee/tea/water!
Yeah, there's probably not much point in going for the
highest-end for what our lot do. If you aren't crunching numbers
or rendering video, or playing the latest games... anything from
about a midrange i7 or higher range i5 (your choice) will have a
lot of staying power.
KM> Fact is the stock cooler usually scrapes by, so better is not an
KM> emergency if you're just doing everyday stuff and not gaming or
Down here someplace there was a link regarding cooler considerations for
the i7-12700K version. As the i5 and i7 are essentially identical
except for the max heat might be good to pay attention! ...Decided on
the Noctura NH-U12S -- the 140 mm version are expensive! (But cheaper
than charcoaling the motherboard and CPU.) Single fan with the ability
to add a second fan. Will monitor with pSensor and see if needed.
<goes to look> Pricey... I doubt a second fan does anything but
interfere with the first fan. I'm not convinced Noctua are that
special, tho they did position themselves as having quieter fans.
Which in this era of helicopter PCs is worth something.
The coolers I've got in Silver and Fireball are HP surplus.
Didn't like the look or price of what else was handy, these got
good reviews from genuine IT types, so tried one. Idling under
25C?? Impressed, bought another. Still impressed. (And that with
the fan turned down about halfway, that being where it starts
being audible outside the case. Silver downspeeds it
automagically, Fireball has a rheostat.)
Um... this one: https://www.amazon.com/HP-160w-LGA2011-Heatsink-656332-001/dp/B00H
2YRL18
copper foot under the included thermal goo. Except mine were $25
off eBay.
I need to get some more case fans. Down to dregs.
Also need to find again the video on "Too Many Fans" -- found in one of
the links and made a note to look at it later in my notes. Would make sense: need an airflow, and if too strong front-to-back might create a stagnant air pool at the top and bottom of the case because air can't
flow into the main stream easily. Or causes whistles as the air is jet-streamed through! Also thinking too much forced air can pull air
the wrong way through devices like the PSU.
Fans-fans-and-more-fans have become a religion among the gaming
and overclocking crowd. Yeah, I doubt most of 'em do much besides
make noise and rearrange dust (and so many of the newer cases
have crap ventilation regardless). I've found the PSU fans plus
one intake fan is generally adequate, unless you're bent on
burning up the CPU with games or other hard work. And then the
case fans aren't the limiting factor; the CPU cooler is.
Doesn't really matter which way air moves through the PSU, so
long as more warm air leaves the case than stays in it. I do like
to leave the top drive bay empty, if there's no top vent (Silver
and Paladin have vents in the case top), as I've found that does
more for letting out hot air than all the fans in China. Also
like to leave some of the slot covers off, same reason -- passive
airflow to move the main mass of hot air, while fans move it away
from specific spots like the CPU heatsink.
My personal favorite is a gag fan some fan mfgr made and sent to
Gamer's Nexus -- it just fits the side of a standard case. The
WHOLE side!!
BTW that's a good YT channel to check for reviews. They're
meticulous about testing and not tolerant of junk. Main thing is
being gamer oriented, lot of detail you and I don't care about,
but still good for comparisons and overviews.
See also their recent expose of Newegg's RMA BS. (Two videos,
watch in order.) Conclusion, which some of us already knew: never
buy anything from Newegg that doesn't have a direct manufacturer
warranty. Also, never buy anything fragile from Newegg.
Hi Ky!
> Follow-up to the message I wrote this morning.
KM> You followin' me? :D
Out of morbid curiosity!
Right. Another factor I consider is the future: try to anticipate what
I will need for several years down the road. Did get the i5-12600K.
Did see the other options that were compatible but the comments kept
pointing to the i5-12600K or the i7-12700K -- must be a reason.
As for the cooling towers the only ones I have used are the CoolerMaster Hyper 212 EVO and the Cryorig H7 Plus. Using only one fan and seems to
be fine. The other fan can always be used as a replacement elsewhere.
The reason I went with the Noctura is they seemed to be the only ones I
could find a LGA1700 mounting for among the three brands. Maybe not
carried yet, though that doesn't seem right. Also where I was reading
the Noctura seemed to be highly rated and pretty much the only brand mentioned. No, I wasn't anywhere near the Noctura forum!
KM> The coolers I've got in Silver and Fireball are HP surplus.
KM> Didn't like the look or price of what else was handy, these got
KM> good reviews from genuine IT types, so tried one. Idling under
KM> 25C?? Impressed, bought another. Still impressed. (And that with
That _is_ good! Here generally running in the low 90's øF (~33øC), but
of course part of that 'hotter' might be the processor, plus I've
noticed LibreOffice tends to warm things up. Closed/none is definately cooler than 6 or 8 open documents.
KM> the fan turned down about halfway, that being where it starts
KM> being audible outside the case. Silver downspeeds it
KM> automagically, Fireball has a rheostat.)
Gee, you could have used a switch bank and made it look Dr.
Frankenstein-y!
I do some comparison shopping, plus glance through the reviews for
additional tidbits. (One review on my motherboard said to take a
picture of the serial number which is on the side of a white port but no where else, not even on the box. He found that after he assembled and
got it running! [My box seems to have a s/n but will take a picture anyway.])
KM> I need to get some more case fans. Down to dregs.
Better that nothing but yes, buy before need and you might also be able
to catch a sale.
The current computer I'm on (the one with the SouthBridge issue) wants
an additional fan. Not absolutely sure of the original number of fans because I don't feel like pulling the unit but pretty sure one in the
rear panel, one for the PSU, and one at top (the latter two I'm sure of!
<g>) Was running warm, even after the swap in of the CoolerMaster CPU unit, so rigged up power for a 120mm fan and laid on top -- temperature
drop! Intention of course to mount to the inside where it belongs but
with the SouthBridge issue and so eventual replacement of the
motherboard haven't bothered.
That does make sense, though having some sort of filter might help keep
dust out. OTOH sufficient airflow shouldn't give time for the dust to settle. I do have a few cases with front panel ventilation.
KM> My personal favorite is a gag fan some fan mfgr made and sent to
KM> Gamer's Nexus -- it just fits the side of a standard case. The
KM> WHOLE side!!
<snortle> Who stuck the extra zero on the mm figure?!
KM> See also their recent expose of Newegg's RMA BS. (Two videos,
KM> watch in order.) Conclusion, which some of us already knew: never
KM> buy anything from Newegg that doesn't have a direct manufacturer
KM> warranty. Also, never buy anything fragile from Newegg.
So far <knock on wood> I've not had problems with Newegg, but then I
don't buy too much from them. Sort of along the same lines I remember semi-recently I was going to buy something at Amazon which was lsied as
them plus several dealers/shops. Lowest price by ~$15 was from a dealer (also free shipping) but the reviews complained of shoddy (not just poor) packaging: broke open, etc. I don't need missing parts and other
hassels so spent the few extra dollars.
> Follow-up to the message I wrote this morning.
KM> You followin' me? :D
Out of morbid curiosity!
I'll be sure to leave a trail of dead bodies so you get your
money's worth. <g>
Right. Another factor I consider is the future: try to anticipate what
I will need for several years down the road. Did get the i5-12600K.
Did see the other options that were compatible but the comments kept pointing to the i5-12600K or the i7-12700K -- must be a reason.
Considering it's about 10x faster that where you started, it'll
be spectacular. <g>
As for the cooling towers the only ones I have used are the CoolerMaster Hyper 212 EVO and the Cryorig H7 Plus. Using only one fan and seems to
be fine. The other fan can always be used as a replacement elsewhere.
The fanciest one I have is a generic tower cooler I got off eBay
for about $15 (it's taller than normal and gets the heat exchange
well away from the motherboard). Works great. Quad-core 3.2GHz
idles around 30C.
The reason I went with the Noctura is they seemed to be the only ones I could find a LGA1700 mounting for among the three brands. Maybe not
That can be the constraint, yeah. If it don't fit, ain't worth
nothin'.
carried yet, though that doesn't seem right. Also where I was reading
the Noctura seemed to be highly rated and pretty much the only brand mentioned. No, I wasn't anywhere near the Noctura forum!
They seem to be reasonably good, tho pricey.
KM> The coolers I've got in Silver and Fireball are HP surplus.
KM> Didn't like the look or price of what else was handy, these got
KM> good reviews from genuine IT types, so tried one. Idling under
KM> 25C?? Impressed, bought another. Still impressed. (And that with
That _is_ good! Here generally running in the low 90's øF (~33øC), but
of course part of that 'hotter' might be the processor, plus I've
noticed LibreOffice tends to warm things up. Closed/none is definately cooler than 6 or 8 open documents.
Busy is definitely warmer. Modern CPUs self-throttle when not
busy, often down to half or a third their max speed.
KM> the fan turned down about halfway, that being where it starts
KM> being audible outside the case. Silver downspeeds it
KM> automagically, Fireball has a rheostat.)
Gee, you could have used a switch bank and made it look Dr.
Frankenstein-y!
It's already a frankenputer... Silver's only parts that came
together were the mainboard and CPU! Fireball didn't even have
that, the board happened to fit a loose CPU and loose RAM, and
off we went.
KM> I need to get some more case fans. Down to dregs.
Better that nothing but yes, buy before need and you might also be able
to catch a sale.
You can always find Sunon fans for cheap, and they're extremely
durable, but noisy. I've only seen one die, and it's probably 25
years old. And they move a lot of air (goes with being noisy).
So... need to find quieter. But not $20 each .
The current computer I'm on (the one with the SouthBridge issue) wants
an additional fan. Not absolutely sure of the original number of fans because I don't feel like pulling the unit but pretty sure one in the
rear panel, one for the PSU, and one at top (the latter two I'm sure of!
<g>) Was running warm, even after the swap in of the CoolerMaster CPU unit, so rigged up power for a 120mm fan and laid on top -- temperature drop! Intention of course to mount to the inside where it belongs but
with the SouthBridge issue and so eventual replacement of the
motherboard haven't bothered.
If they're that much of a cooling problem I just leave the side
panels off. Problem solved!!
That does make sense, though having some sort of filter might help keep
dust out. OTOH sufficient airflow shouldn't give time for the dust to settle. I do have a few cases with front panel ventilation.
Yeah, I need to get some more of those magnetic fan-cover filters
for the intake fans. Work great.
KM> See also their recent expose of Newegg's RMA BS. (Two videos,
KM> watch in order.) Conclusion, which some of us already knew: never
KM> buy anything from Newegg that doesn't have a direct manufacturer
KM> warranty. Also, never buy anything fragile from Newegg.
So far <knock on wood> I've not had problems with Newegg, but then I
Me neither, but I took a lesson from others' pain, and only buy
from there what has a manufacturer warranty, or is essentially unbreakable.
Newegg makes LOT of complaints of DOA hard drives, apparently due
to mishandling, and SSDs that are grey market thus no U.S.
warranty (have to be returned to Europe, which costs more than
the drive did).
don't buy too much from them. Sort of along the same lines I remember semi-recently I was going to buy something at Amazon which was listed as them plus several dealers/shops. Lowest price by ~$15 was from a dealer (also free shipping) but the reviews complained of shoddy (not just poor) packaging: broke open, etc. I don't need missing parts and other
hassels so spent the few extra dollars.
Yeah, I shop the dealer more than the part, given quality often
depends on the dealer being honest.
BTW Jacobsparts (store site or ebay) is a good source for good
quality cables and such at good prices.
Hi Ky!
> > Follow-up to the message I wrote this morning.
> KM> You followin' me? :D
> Out of morbid curiosity!
KM> I'll be sure to leave a trail of dead bodies so you get your
KM> money's worth. <g>
We talking human or animal?
The FX-8320 here likes to run about ten degree warmer but that could be
due to a lot of other factors like rated 125 W for starters. Nowhere
near the thermal cut-off point.
> The reason I went with the Noctura is they seemed to be the only ones I
> could find a LGA1700 mounting for among the three brands. Maybe not
KM> That can be the constraint, yeah. If it don't fit, ain't worth
KM> nothin'.
I'm not sure the adhesive on Duct Tape would hold up to the heat. <g>
There were some comments on one could buy an adapter to modify other
fans. I considered; didn't find so that took care of that option for
me. I was going to comprare the cost of the adapter to a new fan --
both the direct-fit one and replacement of the fan I have here --
currently spare but sort of have a destination use.
> carried yet, though that doesn't seem right. Also where I was reading
> the Noctura seemed to be highly rated and pretty much the only brand
> mentioned. No, I wasn't anywhere near the Noctura forum!
KM> They seem to be reasonably good, tho pricey.
Yes, I thought the pricing was bit high too. Other people have done the research and probably know more how to read the results (me: oh yeah -
copper is a better conductor than this other). Plus I didn't see where another brand was coming up -- certainly not the only ones making a fan
to fit? Well, do remember one but horizontal: seemed like it would
cover some of the RAM.
KM> Busy is definitely warmer. Modern CPUs self-throttle when not
KM> busy, often down to half or a third their max speed.
Right -- actually kind of amazing they do: computer running itself.
Probably the way I keep files open is inefficient for the computer but
that's more efficient for me -- they're in progress.
Works for me! I tend to construct a 'mega computer' for my primary use,
also one for the MythTV Backend, and as require to be bigger/badder/
better will be dropped to the next level, the computer being replaced in
turn dropped a level, finally replacing the oldest.slowest computer
which generally stil gets to hang around because spares are good!
The computers being rolled down a level probably will get a bit of an
upgrade in the process: just adding a SSD for the OS partition really
speeds up otherwise slow computers!
KM> You can always find Sunon fans for cheap, and they're extremely
KM> durable, but noisy. I've only seen one die, and it's probably 25
KM> years old. And they move a lot of air (goes with being noisy).
I might have you beat! I have some Muffin fans removed from mainframes
in the mid-70's. Initially appears to be 45 years but I can't say has
Was reading newer fans are quieter because bigger diameter so can rotate slower to move the same amount of air. Also the blades aren't spaced
exactly evenly: being offset slightly reduces the air turbulance so it quieter.
KM> So... need to find quieter. But not $20 each .
Probably not!! I've saved some money buy buying more (multi-packs).
Having an extra 120mm fan on hand is good: you're almost certainly going
to use it, plus have it now vs waiting to be shipped, plus possibly save
on shipping.
KM> If they're that much of a cooling problem I just leave the side
KM> panels off. Problem solved!!
Oh good: maybe I don't have a problem! ...The new MythTV Backend is
using a recycled case. The tower cooler for the CPU is about a
quarter-inch too high so the side panel doesn't fit. Thinking dust
issues, improper air flow, etc. The good news is the open side is
against the cabinet, so doesn't show, plus no accidental finger-poken.
I did put a 80 mm fan at the bottom-center of the open side to help move
air around.
KM> Yeah, I need to get some more of those magnetic fan-cover filters
KM> for the intake fans. Work great.
Back to the open side cover thing I was considering some sort of cover - filter material maybe. Not sure magnetic would work as relatively
narrow metal strip to attach to. Was also considering removing the
center portion of the panel, replacing with what though as would need
to be 'pootched' out a half-inch or so.
> > Follow-up to the message I wrote this morning.
> KM> You followin' me? :D
> Out of morbid curiosity!
KM> I'll be sure to leave a trail of dead bodies so you get your
KM> money's worth. <g>
We talking human or animal?
Bugs. <g>
The FX-8320 here likes to run about ten degree warmer but that could be
due to a lot of other factors like rated 125 W for starters. Nowhere
near the thermal cut-off point.
Which is generally 80C for older CPUs, 100C for more-modern CPUs.
There were some comments on one could buy an adapter to modify other
fans. I considered; didn't find so that took care of that option for
me. I was going to comprare the cost of the adapter to a new fan --
both the direct-fit one and replacement of the fan I have here --
currently spare but sort of have a destination use.
There are adapters for some sockets, yeah. Usually they do it by
having multiple screw holes in the mounting base (plate attached
to the back of the mainboard), so wherever your socket puts 'em,
they'll hit in the right spot.
> carried yet, though that doesn't seem right. Also where I was reading
> the Noctura seemed to be highly rated and pretty much the only brand
> mentioned. No, I wasn't anywhere near the Noctura forum!
KM> They seem to be reasonably good, tho pricey.
Yes, I thought the pricing was bit high too. Other people have done the research and probably know more how to read the results (me: oh yeah - copper is a better conductor than this other). Plus I didn't see where another brand was coming up -- certainly not the only ones making a fan
to fit? Well, do remember one but horizontal: seemed like it would
cover some of the RAM.
Lower dB and higher CFA... another consideration is whether it
can help cool the various other hot things, like mosfets and RAM.
I recall one that had a shroud that covered up some hot stuff and
that wasn't so good for the whole.
KM> Busy is definitely warmer. Modern CPUs self-throttle when not
KM> busy, often down to half or a third their max speed.
Right -- actually kind of amazing they do: computer running itself.
Probably the way I keep files open is inefficient for the computer but that's more efficient for me -- they're in progress.
Yeah, and now two types of core, one for performance, one for
slow.
Works for me! I tend to construct a 'mega computer' for my primary use, also one for the MythTV Backend, and as require to be bigger/badder/
better will be dropped to the next level, the computer being replaced in turn dropped a level, finally replacing the oldest.slowest computer
which generally stil gets to hang around because spares are good!
Yeah, mine get parts kicked downhill as available too. Then find
some job and take a long time to finally retire to the Closet. <g>
The computers being rolled down a level probably will get a bit of an upgrade in the process: just adding a SSD for the OS partition really
speeds up otherwise slow computers!
Yeah, it does wonders for that. Six times the data flow.
KM> You can always find Sunon fans for cheap, and they're extremely
KM> durable, but noisy. I've only seen one die, and it's probably 25
KM> years old. And they move a lot of air (goes with being noisy).
I might have you beat! I have some Muffin fans removed from mainframes
in the mid-70's. Initially appears to be 45 years but I can't say has
Woah... used to have a couple of vintage fans like that, but got
lost in the Great Northward Migration. High power, noisy, but
dang could they move the air.
Was reading newer fans are quieter because bigger diameter so can rotate slower to move the same amount of air. Also the blades aren't spaced exactly evenly: being offset slightly reduces the air turbulance so it quieter.
Yeah, that and using different blade shapes. I haven't paid that
much attention.
KM> So... need to find quieter. But not $20 each .
Probably not!! I've saved some money buy buying more (multi-packs).
Next time you see a good deal, let me know!
Having an extra 120mm fan on hand is good: you're almost certainly going
to use it, plus have it now vs waiting to be shipped, plus possibly save
on shipping.
Yeah. I have some salvaged from power supplies, but would have to
rewire 'em.
issues, improper air flow, etc. The good news is the open side is
I've found the airflow thing is mostly a myth. They talk a good
line but when temperature is much lower with MY airflow than with
THEIR airflow, and I see that over and over... well, I stopped
worrying about it.
I remember the top-end Dell someone gift me because persistent
overheating caused chronic crashing, and it was borderline even
with water cooling (which he didn't send with it, put it all back
to stock). And everyone was all OH NOES you can't mess with their meticulously designed cooling, that would be bad! Erm, their
meticulous design is overheating at idle, how much harm could I
do??
So I ditched their stupid shroud, replaced the thoroughly useless
fanless heatsink with a proper if generic heatsink-with-fan,
added an intake fan, and its CPU temperature dropped 40F degrees.
Yes, FORTY DEGREES.
And it never crashed again (at least not until the capacitors
failed).
Same with leaving the side panels off. Then you don't need to
worry about evacuating the hot air; it leaves all by itself.
Same reason I like to have a top vent, to let it escape.
against the cabinet, so doesn't show, plus no accidental finger-poken.
I did put a 80 mm fan at the bottom-center of the open side to help move
air around.
I'd leave the open side a fingerwidth away from the side of the
cabinet, to let more hot air escape.
KM> Yeah, I need to get some more of those magnetic fan-cover filters
KM> for the intake fans. Work great.
Back to the open side cover thing I was considering some sort of cover - filter material maybe. Not sure magnetic would work as relatively
narrow metal strip to attach to. Was also considering removing the
center portion of the panel, replacing with what though as would need
to be 'pootched' out a half-inch or so.
Well, given it's where you can't stick your foot into it, I'd
just leave enough room for circulation and not worry about it.
Bullet ran with both sides off for years; only reason they're on
now is cuz it's not running due to Rearranging Of Hardware.
Bullet's southbridge likes to run at 220F, so the less between it
and the open air, the better.
Got a copper heatsink for that but so far have not quite figured
out how to make it fit... might need a different one.
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