BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Folks!

Have been having sort of a vaguely defined issue with USB devices on my computer. Sometimes, so yes, not consistent, plugging anything into
either the USB 2 or USB 3 front panel ports will cause the system to lock/freeze. Oddly thumbdrives (USB sticks) are 95% of the time fine
while plugging in a USB DVD device will but not always cause a lock up.

DVD draws a lot more power than thumb drives. So...

This sounds like the hub/port is not getting enough power, even if it's
got its own wall wart. So most likely power failing somewhere. The port
can test adequate but still not supply enough to power the device.
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Hi Ky!

Hi Folks!

Have been having sort of a vaguely defined issue with USB devices on my computer. Sometimes, so yes, not consistent, plugging anything into
either the USB 2 or USB 3 front panel ports will cause the system to lock/freeze. Oddly thumbdrives (USB sticks) are 95% of the time fine
while plugging in a USB DVD device will but not always cause a lock up.

DVD draws a lot more power than thumb drives. So...
This sounds like the hub/port is not getting enough power, even
if it's got its own wall wart. So most likely power failing
somewhere. The port can test adequate but still not supply enough
to power the device.

Yes, had swapped the powered hub and had the same problem.
Theoretically beefier wall wart: this one has a brick as opposed to a
wart. (Didn't check ratings.)

While the DVD does require more power and the front panel ports probbaly
don't have as much amperage available it seems the thumbdrives are the
ones usually creating the problem; usually no problem when plugged in to
the front panel or the powered hub, just occasionally.

¯ ®
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¯ ®


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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

While the DVD does require more power and the front panel ports probbaly don't have as much amperage available it seems the thumbdrives are the
ones usually creating the problem; usually no problem when plugged in to
the front panel or the powered hub, just occasionally.

Musta misread; thought you'd said the DVD was causing the issue.

But if it's mostly the thumb drives... I had the long stall problem
when copying files from a 140GB Lexar (I have two of 'em and they both
did the same problem). Appears to lock up the system, but if I wait long enough it'll finish what it was doing and return control. I think it is actually blowing off USB3 and deciding to be USB1, due to some hardware conflict. Does it on several different PCs. None of the 128GB-or-less
have the problem, but these do it regularly (mostly when trying to copy largish files).
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Hi Ky!

While the DVD does require more power and the front panel ports probbaly don't have as much amperage available it seems the thumbdrives are the
ones usually creating the problem; usually no problem when plugged in to
the front panel or the powered hub, just occasionally.

Musta misread; thought you'd said the DVD was causing the issue.

Could have been a misread (like I've never done that!!), poor phrasing
on my part.....

But if it's mostly the thumb drives... I had the long stall
problem when copying files from a 140GB Lexar (I have two of 'em
and they both did the same problem). Appears to lock up the
system, but if I wait long enough it'll finish what it was doing
and return control. I think it is actually blowing off USB3 and
deciding to be USB1, due to some hardware conflict. Does it on
several different PCs. None of the 128GB-or-less have the
problem, but these do it regularly (mostly when trying to copy
largish files).

Doesn't seem to be a stall; not sure the last time I let things sit but shouldn't take too long as I generally use 16 GB thumbdrives. The
system freezes: time display stops (have it configured to display
seconds), mouse won't move, NumLock won't toggle. Last time had the
lockup REISUB wouldn't work but I think sometimes (rarely) it works.

LIS most of the time the thumbdrives play nice -- most are USB 3's and generally plug them into the added-on USB 3 port on the front panel. Yesterday plugged in headphones and that locked up the system (!) --
that port is part of the USB 2 panel built in to the chassis. (Still an add-on.) Think I tapped for static discharge -- usually do in winter
but can't be 100% sure.


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¯ ®


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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

KM> Musta misread; thought you'd said the DVD was causing the issue.

Could have been a misread (like I've never done that!!), poor phrasing
on my part.....

Poor or missing parts. Cheap components. Defective design. Damn, I want
a whole new monkey. :D

Doesn't seem to be a stall; not sure the last time I let things sit but shouldn't take too long as I generally use 16 GB thumbdrives. The
system freezes: time display stops (have it configured to display
seconds), mouse won't move, NumLock won't toggle. Last time had the
lockup REISUB wouldn't work but I think sometimes (rarely) it works.

Huh. Tho this still sounds like a hardware problem.

LIS most of the time the thumbdrives play nice -- most are USB 3's and generally plug them into the added-on USB 3 port on the front panel.

I have one of those Renasas add-on ports with front and back access.
I've discovered that for the front ports, only one of the two will work
at a time, at least on this box. Might be affected by some issue in the mainboard's own USB, which only about half works. Southbridge bug,
maybe. (Was gifted two of the same board, and one was marked "bad
southbridge" tho now that one seems to work. Maybe both of 'em...)

Yesterday plugged in headphones and that locked up the system (!) --
that port is part of the USB 2 panel built in to the chassis. (Still an add-on.) Think I tapped for static discharge -- usually do in winter
but can't be 100% sure.

USB self-grounds before the powered part makes contact, so shouldn't be
an issue. Tho note that headphones would have been a sudden power draw.

You might want to get one of those little blue pass-through USB testers
that show voltage and draw, and check if there's a sudden power drop, or worse, a spike. Also I would look at voltage on the system power supply
-- I have a tester that displays it for each rail, but voltage reads
might be in your BIOS under "PC Health" or something like; maybe try hotplugging the offending USB device and see if voltage jumps. If the 5v
is out of whack, that would affect some USB devices.

===

Only at Ky's House: only reason I've had the linux box up in the last
month was to run updates. And then run updates on its baby brother in
the VM. This is silly. :P
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Hi Ky!

KM> Musta misread; thought you'd said the DVD was causing the issue.
Could have been a misread (like I've never done that!!), poor phrasing
on my part.....

Poor or missing parts. Cheap components. Defective design. Damn,
I want a whole new monkey. :D

OK, so could be any one thing, could be a combination of things (one
add-on card 'radiating' into the motherboard; multiple cheats all over
adding up). Looks like one of those "just need to put up with it"
quirks.

Doesn't seem to be a stall; not sure the last time I let things sit but shouldn't take too long as I generally use 16 GB thumbdrives. The
system freezes: time display stops (have it configured to display
seconds), mouse won't move, NumLock won't toggle. Last time had the
lockup REISUB wouldn't work but I think sometimes (rarely) it works.

Huh. Tho this still sounds like a hardware problem.

Yes, seems so. Keep an eye out for common denominators - right now
seems to be the motherboard and power supply. And the OS.

LIS most of the time the thumbdrives play nice -- most are USB 3's and generally plug them into the added-on USB 3 port on the front panel.

I have one of those Renasas add-on ports with front and back
access. I've discovered that for the front ports, only one of the
two will work at a time, at least on this box. Might be affected
by some issue in the mainboard's own USB, which only about half
works. Southbridge bug, maybe. (Was gifted two of the same board,
and one was marked "bad southbridge" tho now that one seems to
work. Maybe both of 'em...)

The motherboards looked around, saw the one you put on the fence and
shot, decided they'd try to work to avoid that fate!

Here the USB 2 front panel is integrated into the case but still an
add-on. USB 3 front panel is a 3«" bay insert. So both front panels
add-ons. ...Semi-deciphering 'lsusb -t' -- right now nothing in the
front so so far just a listing; don't want to insert and have a lock-up
in the middle of this reply!

Have a powered USB 3.0 hub; swapped that out a little while ago because
it seemed to be wonky. Went from a four port to seven, different brand (though chip could be the same); same issue. Left the seven port in as
I like the additional ports.

Yesterday plugged in headphones and that locked up the system (!) --
that port is part of the USB 2 panel built in to the chassis. (Still an add-on.) Think I tapped for static discharge -- usually do in winter
but can't be 100% sure.

USB self-grounds before the powered part makes contact, so
shouldn't be an issue. Tho note that headphones would have been a
sudden power draw.

Possibly poor phrasing on my part: the headphones were just audio - the
3.5mm round, not USB.

You might want to get one of those little blue pass-through USB
testers that show voltage and draw, and check if there's a sudden
power drop, or worse, a spike. Also I would look at voltage on
the system power supply -- I have a tester that displays it for
each rail, but voltage reads might be in your BIOS under "PC
Health" or something like; maybe try hotplugging the offending
USB device and see if voltage jumps. If the 5v is out of whack,
that would affect some USB devices.

OK - have a USB voltage tester. I think the BIOS does have voltage
readings but haven't paid too much attention so will check.

===

Only at Ky's House: only reason I've had the linux box up in the
last month was to run updates. And then run updates on its baby
brother in the VM. This is silly. :P

Tweedee and Tweedledum?! I haven't used the VM Linux all that much and
have forgotten it will need updating.


¯ ®
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¯ @Q.COM ®
¯ ®


...
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A. A buck tooth!
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Hi Ky!

Some additional information -- maybe you see something in the pattern:

You might want to get one of those little blue pass-through USB
testers that show voltage and draw, and check if there's a sudden
power drop, or worse, a spike. Also I would look at voltage on
the system power supply -- I have a tester that displays it for
each rail, but voltage reads might be in your BIOS under "PC
Health" or something like; maybe try hotplugging the offending
USB device and see if voltage jumps. If the 5v is out of whack,
that would affect some USB devices.

OK - have a USB voltage tester. I think the BIOS does have voltage
readings but haven't paid too much attention so will check.

<new information follows>

I have a bleck tester and a blue tester. The black gives more
information at a glance: V, A, some other stuff I don't recall right
now; the blue one cycles between V and A.

Plugged the Kingson 16 GB USB 3.0 into the black tester: 4.96 v, 0.10 A,
front left USB 3.0 port.

Little later plugged the blue tester in: freeze! FWIW the black tester
is on a short USB 2.0 extension cbale (about a foot long) because the
display is usually facing the front direction.

REISUB did not work.

BIOS's readings:
CPU 47øC
MB 25øC

CPU 1.296 v (FX-8320)
3.3v 3.240v
5v 4.992v
12v 12.097v

Some time late inserted the Kingston thumbdrive into the port directly
(no meter) and <screech!>. Same port as did the measurement earlier;
have inserted and removed this thumbdrive from the same port many times
before (and a couple times since). <shrug>
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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

<new information follows>

I have a bleck tester and a blue tester. The black gives more
information at a glance: V, A, some other stuff I don't recall right
now; the blue one cycles between V and A.

Blue sounds like mine. Obviously I need that black one too. :D

Plugged the Kingson 16 GB USB 3.0 into the black tester: 4.96 v, 0.10 A, front left USB 3.0 port.

Friend says Kingston flash drives 16GB or above are nothing but trouble
and commonly lock up the system. Nowadays I stick to Sandisk so have
avoided this problem.

Little later plugged the blue tester in: freeze! FWIW the black tester

Whoops!

BIOS's readings:
CPU 47øC
MB 25øC

CPU 1.296 v (FX-8320)
3.3v 3.240v
5v 4.992v
12v 12.097v

A little borderline but not terrible.

Some time late inserted the Kingston thumbdrive into the port directly
(no meter) and <screech!>. Same port as did the measurement earlier;
have inserted and removed this thumbdrive from the same port many times before (and a couple times since). <shrug>

If you have a weak PSU, might be it only freezes if there's also some
other activity drawing power. Does it actually screech??!
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Friend says Kingston flash drives 16GB or above are nothing but trouble
and commonly lock up the system. Nowadays I stick to Sandisk so have
avoided this problem.

I have been having luck lately (knock on wood!) with Corsair Voyagers.

Mike


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Hi Ky!

I have a bleck tester and a blue tester. The black gives more
information at a glance: V, A, some other stuff I don't recall right
now; the blue one cycles between V and A.

Blue sounds like mine. Obviously I need that black one too. :D

Time to go shopping! I think I bought mine from AliExpress but don't
recall.

One thing I did was got a short (6") extension cable. The blue one was upside-down to the port, or at least on the original computer (has been updated). Just left the cable on.

Plugged the Kingson 16 GB USB 3.0 into the black tester: 4.96 v, 0.10 A, front left USB 3.0 port.

Friend says Kingston flash drives 16GB or above are nothing but
trouble and commonly lock up the system. Nowadays I stick to
Sandisk so have avoided this problem.

Ah great! Bought several Kingston Data Travellers - 16 GB. The good
news is they (or at least the couple I've used so far) seem to be fine. Generally Sneakernet, so numerous inserts/ejects.

I had problems with a certain set of ADATA thumbdrives -- 16 GB (of
course! <g>). Purchased several in blue and black, then went back to
get some more of the yellow and black. Should be the same, just a
different coloured case. All but one or two of the yellow ones failed:
I could reformat a few then those eventually locked and refused to be corrected: tried several utilties.

Little later plugged the blue tester in: freeze! FWIW the black tester

Whoops!

The freeze problem seems to be random: known good device will suddenly
cause a lock-up; reboot, plug-in, no problems.

BIOS's readings:
CPU 47øC
MB 25øC

CPU 1.296 v (FX-8320)
3.3v 3.240v
5v 4.992v
12v 12.097v

A little borderline but not terrible.

And I don't recall what brand the PSU is but a higher-rated brand and
higher capacity -- Thermaltake 750W comes to mind but won't guarantee.

Some time late inserted the Kingston thumbdrive into the port directly
(no meter) and <screech!>. Same port as did the measurement earlier;
have inserted and removed this thumbdrive from the same port many times before (and a couple times since). <shrug>

If you have a weak PSU, might be it only freezes if there's also
some other activity drawing power. Does it actually screech??!

No but my mind does!

I've also had the lock-up/freeze with a powered USB 3.0 hub. Thought
maybe that was faulty so swapped that with a different one. Plus the
new hub has seven ports and the old only had four. Components could
still be the same. OTTOMH not recalling specifics but it also locked up
as I recall thinking to myself "well that didn't do any good". The wall
wart for the USB hub and the computer itself are plugged in to the same
UPS so should be an issue with ground loops.


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¯ ®


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Mike and Ky (and anyone else!(:

Friend says Kingston flash drives 16GB or above are nothing but trouble
and commonly lock up the system. Nowadays I stick to Sandisk so have
avoided this problem.

I have been having luck lately (knock on wood!) with Corsair
Voyagers.

Thanks for the tip. So seems best to stay with name-brand, though the
yellow ADATA thumbdrives were here junk while the blues ones worked fine
-- appeared to be the same except for the colour of the housing.


As for the problems when plugging in something to the port, had that
this morning when I plugged in a dongle for the cordless keyboard and
mouse into a different computer: caused it to reboot. Have plugged the
dongle in to it and several other computers without problem.
Possibility of static electricity as lower humidity. In general I do
the 'static electricity tap' so should have been equalized.
...Suggestions? Ideas?


¯ ®
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¯ @Q.COM ®
¯ ®


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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Mike and Ky (and anyone else!(:

Anyone! speak up! :D

> Friend says Kingston flash drives 16GB or above are nothing but trouble
> and commonly lock up the system. Nowadays I stick to Sandisk so have
> avoided this problem.
MP> I have been having luck lately (knock on wood!) with Corsair
MP> Voyagers.

Thanks for the tip. So seems best to stay with name-brand, though the
yellow ADATA thumbdrives were here junk while the blues ones worked fine
-- appeared to be the same except for the colour of the housing.

ADATA have a dreadful rep, as I've mentioned before. I expect they're
strictly rebadging seconds (not manufacturing their own chips) so what
you get depends on the source... and they may differentiate source by
color.

Far as I know, the only vertical chip manufacturers are Micron, Sandisk
(now part of WD), and maybe Samsung, and even then there's lots of chip swapping depending on who has surplus or deficit. Also...


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_flash_drive#Counterfeit_products
======
Counterfeit products

Counterfeit USB flash drives are sometimes sold with claims of having
higher capacities than they actually have. These are typically low
capacity USB drives which are modified so that they emulate larger
capacity drives (for example, a 2 GB drive being marketed as a 64 GB
drive). When plugged into a computer, they report themselves as being
the larger capacity they were sold as, but when data is written to them, either the write fails, the drive freezes up, or it overwrites existing
data. Software tools exist to check and detect fake USB drives,[46][47]
and in some cases it is possible to repair these devices to remove the
false capacity information and use its real storage limit.[48]
================

I got a pair of cheapo USB hubs from some outfit in ages past, and when
they arrived, one was black, the other silver. One didn't work due to
loose parts rattling around inside. When I reported that, they asked me
which color was broken (and sent a replacement of the other color) so
that's how they were keeping track. Per the innards, different
manufacturer, but the cases were the same other than color.

As for the problems when plugging in something to the port, had that
this morning when I plugged in a dongle for the cordless keyboard and
mouse into a different computer: caused it to reboot. Have plugged the dongle in to it and several other computers without problem.
Possibility of static electricity as lower humidity. In general I do
the 'static electricity tap' so should have been equalized.
..Suggestions? Ideas?

Shouldn't be static with USB stuff, because it self-grounds. (Same with
SATA.) Also, judging by the shocks I've seen this stuff survive unfazed,
it's not really all that sensitive. My New! Improved!! mainboard (Asus P9X79LE, about 5 years old) has a function to protect itself from static
or overvoltage, which I expect is probably fairly standard now.

I've lived with low low LOW humidity for so long that I have a habit of slapping the wall with the back of my hand before touching the light
switch or the faucet (cuz otherwise I get a nasty surprise) and no such
issue here from that. Do occasionally get a jolt when I go to pull a
dongle and have been walking around first. (Time to spray Downey on the
carpet again. Works wonders for static, tho tends to collect dirt.)

This is interesting, tho applies to Windows: https://www.hellpc.net/fix-usb-flash-drive-freezes-computer-when-plugged-in-issue/


https://tl.net/forum/tech-support/426915-computer-freezing-and-usb-ports-not-working

Response in comments:
=========
Make sure you have all drives plugged into the Intel ports, these are
the white or black SATA ports and USB 2.0 ports. Disable the Marvell
SATA ports and Etron USB ports in the BIOS.

Random lock ups (meaning it could happen on idle or load) were a common problem during the initial months of the Sandybridge release, related to
PLL and power saving features. Disabling C1E, C3, C6, EIST and CPU PLL Overvoltage solved it for some people so you may want to try that.
==========
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MIKE POWELL wrote:

Friend says Kingston flash drives 16GB or above are nothing but trouble
and commonly lock up the system. Nowadays I stick to Sandisk so have
avoided this problem.

I have been having luck lately (knock on wood!) with Corsair Voyagers.

I don't think I own Corsair anything, but the only report I've seen on
their SSDs was very positive.
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On Frankenflash drives:

https://fixfakeflash.wordpress.com/faq-read/

list of associated sites downstream.

http://sosfakeflash.wordpress.com/ SOSFakeFlash – The Main Site http://fakeflashnews.wordpress.com/ FakeFlashNews – TechReporters http://fakememorysentinel.wordpress.com FakeMemorySentinel – Early
Detection On eBay
https://fixfakeflash.wordpress.com/ FixFakeFlash – InspectorTech http://flashchiptech.wordpress.com/ FlashChipTech – TechChips http://flashdrivefacts.wordpress.com/ FlashDriveFacts – FlashChipTutor

https://flashdrivefacts.wordpress.com/2009/03/22/genuine-verses-fake-counterfeit-usb-flash-drives-a-guide-usb-flash-chips-used-in-usb-flash-drives-grades-a-b-c-d/

https://flashchiptech.wordpress.com/2009/09/23/should-you-repair-a-fake-usb-flash-pen-drive/

https://fixfakeflash.wordpress.com/faq-read/

https://fixfakeflash.wordpress.com/2008/12/11/about-vid-pid-repairing-counterfeit-flash-drives-steps-to-succeed/

The mentioned tool:
https://slc.lo4d.com/files/h2testw/h2testw_1.4.zip

Virustotal report: https://www.virustotal.com/gui/url/44456c7e66bbbdea3fa4d371af12959d718968f831eb3b62c3177c022fc534b7/detection
(probably CRDF, which I'd never heard of, does not like it because it's
a low-level formatting tool; ClamWin thinks it's clean)
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MIKE POWELL wrote:

Friend says Kingston flash drives 16GB or above are nothing but trouble >> and commonly lock up the system. Nowadays I stick to Sandisk so have
avoided this problem.

The majority of mine are Sandisk Cruzer's and a random HP.
I picked up a couple of Sandisk's that were no bigger than your
fingernail including the cover if that big.

I have been having luck lately (knock on wood!) with Corsair Voyagers.

I don't think I own Corsair anything, but the only report I've seen on their SSDs was very positive.

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Hi Ky!

Mike and Ky (and anyone else!):

Anyone! speak up! :D

Or here preferably type!

> Friend says Kingston flash drives 16GB or above are nothing but trouble
> and commonly lock up the system. Nowadays I stick to Sandisk so have
> avoided this problem.
MP> I have been having luck lately (knock on wood!) with Corsair
MP> Voyagers.
Thanks for the tip. So seems best to stay with name-brand, though the yellow ADATA thumbdrives were here junk while the blues ones worked fine
-- appeared to be the same except for the colour of the housing.

ADATA have a dreadful rep, as I've mentioned before. I expect
they're strictly rebadging seconds (not manufacturing their own
chips) so what you get depends on the source... and they may
differentiate source by color.

That might explain why 'all' blues worked and 'all' of the yellows
didn't. I was also thinking it was a slightly odd name for an
electronics company: 'a-' is a Latin prefix for 'without/lack of'.....

Far as I know, the only vertical chip manufacturers are Micron,
Sandisk (now part of WD), and maybe Samsung, and even then
there's lots of chip swapping depending on who has surplus or
deficit. Also...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_flash_drive#Counterfeit_products

======
Counterfeit products

Counterfeit USB flash drives are sometimes sold with claims of
having higher capacities than they actually have. These are
typically low capacity USB drives which are modified so that they
emulate larger capacity drives (for example, a 2 GB drive being
marketed as a 64 GB drive). When plugged into a computer, they
report themselves as being the larger capacity they were sold as,
but when data is written to them, either the write fails, the
drive freezes up, or it overwrites existing data. Software tools
exist to check and detect fake USB drives,[46][47] and in some
cases it is possible to repair these devices to remove the false
capacity information and use its real storage limit.[48]
================

Hmmmm! I'm recalling a failed thumbdrive (thought not which brand) where
a recovery tool indicated the data went beyond the sector count -
something like that.

I got a pair of cheapo USB hubs from some outfit in ages past,
and when they arrived, one was black, the other silver. One
didn't work due to loose parts rattling around inside. When I
reported that, they asked me which color was broken (and sent a replacement of the other color) so that's how they were keeping
track. Per the innards, different manufacturer, but the cases
were the same other than color.

That's a major verification of the keep-track-by-colour guess!

As for the problems when plugging in something to the port, had that
this morning when I plugged in a dongle for the cordless keyboard and
mouse into a different computer: caused it to reboot. Have plugged the dongle in to it and several other computers without problem.
Possibility of static electricity as lower humidity. In general I do
the 'static electricity tap' so should have been equalized.
..Suggestions? Ideas?

Shouldn't be static with USB stuff, because it self-grounds.
(Same with SATA.) Also, judging by the shocks I've seen this
stuff survive unfazed, it's not really all that sensitive. My
New! Improved!! mainboard (Asus P9X79LE, about 5 years old) has a
function to protect itself from static or overvoltage, which I
expect is probably fairly standard now.

OK, good. I don't recall hearing a zap but couldn't absolutely say no.
Will continue to ground-before-insert just as a good practice.

I've lived with low low LOW humidity for so long that I have a
habit of slapping the wall with the back of my hand before
touching the light switch or the faucet (cuz otherwise I get a
nasty surprise) and no such issue here from that. Do occasionally
get a jolt when I go to pull a dongle and have been walking
around first. (Time to spray Downey on the carpet again. Works
wonders for static, tho tends to collect dirt.)

Yes, winters here in eastern Iowa tend to be Zap Season and I've learned
to lightly smack before touching.

This is interesting, tho applies to Windows: https://www.hellpc.net/fix-usb-flash-drive-freezes-computer-when-p lugged-in-iss
e/

https://tl.net/forum/tech-support/426915-computer-freezing-and-usb -ports-not-wo
king

Response in comments:
=========
Make sure you have all drives plugged into the Intel ports, these
are the white or black SATA ports and USB 2.0 ports. Disable the
Marvell SATA ports and Etron USB ports in the BIOS.

Will check that one out: "Marvell" doesn't sound quite right but does
sound close to one (maybe a pair) port on the motherboard. "Etron"
doesn't sound familiar. (Why am I thinking Eltron Port, song writer to
"Good Bye Yellow Bricked Load" and "Crocodile Clip"??)

Random lock ups (meaning it could happen on idle or load) were a
common problem during the initial months of the Sandybridge
release, related to PLL and power saving features. Disabling C1E,
C3, C6, EIST and CPU PLL Overvoltage solved it for some people so
you may want to try that. ==========

OK, thanks! No overclocking/overvoltage tweaks done here -- I can get
in enough trouble as is! -- but quite possible the manufacturer's
default values 'turned up the control' a bit to make the motherboard's
specs look better.


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LEE GREEN wrote:

The majority of mine are Sandisk Cruzer's and a random HP.
I picked up a couple of Sandisk's that were no bigger than your
fingernail including the cover if that big.

Yeah, I've got a few of those micro-SD cards. While back Walmart had the
200GB model for $20!
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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

> Mike and Ky (and anyone else!):
KM> Anyone! speak up! :D

Or here preferably type!

I thought I'd try smoke signals. :D

KM> ADATA have a dreadful rep, as I've mentioned before. I expect
KM> they're strictly rebadging seconds (not manufacturing their own
KM> chips) so what you get depends on the source... and they may
KM> differentiate source by color.

That might explain why 'all' blues worked and 'all' of the yellows

Yeah, usually a reasonable guess. If you open 'em up they likely aren't
quite the same inside.

didn't. I was also thinking it was a slightly odd name for an
electronics company: 'a-' is a Latin prefix for 'without/lack of'.....

Bit alarming, eh? :)

KM> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_flash_drive#Counterfeit_products

KM> ======
KM> Counterfeit products

Hmmmm! I'm recalling a failed thumbdrive (thought not which brand) where
a recovery tool indicated the data went beyond the sector count -
something like that.

Yep, that's exactly what you'd see with a counterfeit.

> ..Suggestions? Ideas?
KM> Shouldn't be static with USB stuff, because it self-grounds.
KM> (Same with SATA.) Also, judging by the shocks I've seen this
KM> stuff survive unfazed, it's not really all that sensitive. My
KM> New! Improved!! mainboard (Asus P9X79LE, about 5 years old) has a
KM> function to protect itself from static or overvoltage, which I
KM> expect is probably fairly standard now.

OK, good. I don't recall hearing a zap but couldn't absolutely say no.
Will continue to ground-before-insert just as a good practice.

If only because *I* don't like getting zapped. :)

KM> Response in comments:
KM> =========
KM> Make sure you have all drives plugged into the Intel ports, these
KM> are the white or black SATA ports and USB 2.0 ports. Disable the
KM> Marvell SATA ports and Etron USB ports in the BIOS.

Will check that one out: "Marvell" doesn't sound quite right but does
sound close to one (maybe a pair) port on the motherboard. "Etron"
doesn't sound familiar. (Why am I thinking Eltron Port, song writer to
"Good Bye Yellow Bricked Load" and "Crocodile Clip"??)

Only Marvell ports I have are IDE, nowadays decidedly unheroic. I like
your musical choices, tho. :D

KM> C3, C6, EIST and CPU PLL Overvoltage solved it for some people so

KM> you may want to try that. ==========

OK, thanks! No overclocking/overvoltage tweaks done here -- I can get
in enough trouble as is! -- but quite possible the manufacturer's
default values 'turned up the control' a bit to make the motherboard's
specs look better.

Yeah, sometimes undervoltaging/underclocking will solve a stability issue.

Among the weirds formerly infesting The Closet... pair of nominally
identical early Pentium motherboards. Pair of early Pentium CPUs. Each
board would only speak to one of the two CPUs, and only when misclocked:
the 60MHz had to be set to 66MHz and the 66MHz had to be set to 60MHz.
W.T.F.
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Hi Ky!

> Mike and Ky (and anyone else!):
KM> Anyone! speak up! :D
Or here preferably type!

I thought I'd try smoke signals. :D

The people near forest fires may have interference.

KM> ADATA have a dreadful rep, as I've mentioned before. I expect
KM> they're strictly rebadging seconds (not manufacturing their own
KM> chips) so what you get depends on the source... and they may
KM> differentiate source by color.
That might explain why 'all' blues worked and 'all' of the yellows

Yeah, usually a reasonable guess. If you open 'em up they likely
aren't quite the same inside.

I should have cracked open the yellow ones! Thought I don't recall if
any problems with the blue ones and don't want to damage one just to
see: already annoying enough to have wasted money on the ones that
failed. ...<blink!> There might be another way: the 'lsusb' command
displays a vendor:device code. I still have at least one yellow
thumbdrive left. ...Test later: don't want that testing to lock up the computer!

didn't. I was also thinking it was a slightly odd name for an
electronics company: 'a-' is a Latin prefix for 'without/lack of'.....

Bit alarming, eh? :)

Even moreseo now!

KM> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_flash_drive#Counterfeit_products

KM> ======
KM> Counterfeit products

Hmmmm! I'm recalling a failed thumbdrive (thought not which brand) where
a recovery tool indicated the data went beyond the sector count -
something like that.

Yep, that's exactly what you'd see with a counterfeit.

<low sizzle> And as stupid as it may seem I will continue to
occasionally purchase cheap and potentially counterfeit thumbdrives:
sometimes just need to work a few times to 'get there'.

> ..Suggestions? Ideas?
KM> Shouldn't be static with USB stuff, because it self-grounds.
KM> (Same with SATA.) Also, judging by the shocks I've seen this
KM> stuff survive unfazed, it's not really all that sensitive. My
KM> New! Improved!! mainboard (Asus P9X79LE, about 5 years old) has a
KM> function to protect itself from static or overvoltage, which I
KM> expect is probably fairly standard now.
OK, good. I don't recall hearing a zap but couldn't absolutely say no.
Will continue to ground-before-insert just as a good practice.

If only because *I* don't like getting zapped. :)

So we have found out you're not into that cheap a thrill!! <gg>

KM> Response in comments:
KM> =========
KM> Make sure you have all drives plugged into the Intel ports, these
KM> are the white or black SATA ports and USB 2.0 ports. Disable the
KM> Marvell SATA ports and Etron USB ports in the BIOS.
Will check that one out: "Marvell" doesn't sound quite right but does
sound close to one (maybe a pair) port on the motherboard. "Etron"
doesn't sound familiar. (Why am I thinking Eltron Port, song writer to "Good Bye Yellow Bricked Load" and "Crocodile Clip"??)

Only Marvell ports I have are IDE, nowadays decidedly unheroic. I
like your musical choices, tho. :D

The "Marvell" I'm half-remembering had something to so with the SATA
ports on the motherboard and pretty sure is on a diferent computer.
Need to check still - when go to the store tomorrow wil pick u psome
more Round TuIts.

KM> C3, C6, EIST and CPU PLL Overvoltage solved it for some people so

KM> you may want to try that. ==========
OK, thanks! No overclocking/overvoltage tweaks done here -- I can get
in enough trouble as is! -- but quite possible the manufacturer's
default values 'turned up the control' a bit to make the motherboard's
specs look better.

Yeah, sometimes undervoltaging/underclocking will solve a
stability issue.

Right: if manufacturer's defaults too close to the edge just to get a
higher rating.....

Among the weirds formerly infesting The Closet... pair of
nominally identical early Pentium motherboards. Pair of early
Pentium CPUs. Each board would only speak to one of the two CPUs,
and only when misclocked: the 60MHz had to be set to 66MHz and
the 66MHz had to be set to 60MHz. W.T.F.

<chuckle> I'd say 'mixed up labeling' bu that would make sense only if
you or someone else did the actual labeling of the two specific mother-
boards and CPUs.

At least you figured out the problem: I pretty much go with the defaults
so don't fiddle with the overclocking/underclocking.



¯ ®
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¯ ®


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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

KM> I thought I'd try smoke signals. :D
The people near forest fires may have interference.

Dang, I didn't think of that.

KM> Yeah, usually a reasonable guess. If you open 'em up they likely
KM> aren't quite the same inside.

I should have cracked open the yellow ones! Thought I don't recall if
any problems with the blue ones and don't want to damage one just to
see: already annoying enough to have wasted money on the ones that
failed. ...<blink!> There might be another way: the 'lsusb' command
displays a vendor:device code. I still have at least one yellow

It does?

thumbdrive left. ...Test later: don't want that testing to lock up the computer!

Haha, gee, why not? :D

> Hmmmm! I'm recalling a failed thumbdrive (thought not which brand) where
> a recovery tool indicated the data went beyond the sector count -
> something like that.
KM> Yep, that's exactly what you'd see with a counterfeit.

<low sizzle> And as stupid as it may seem I will continue to
occasionally purchase cheap and potentially counterfeit thumbdrives: sometimes just need to work a few times to 'get there'.

Note to self: beat Barry with a stick until he learns better. <g>

You can get USB2 Sandisk 8GB and 16GB for about 4 bucks at Walmart. If
you don't have any USB3 ports, well, the price is right. Too slow for everyday, but there ya go.

> Will continue to ground-before-insert just as a good practice.
KM> If only because *I* don't like getting zapped. :)

So we have found out you're not into that cheap a thrill!! <gg>

I am no fun at an electrocution. :P

KM> Only Marvell ports I have are IDE, nowadays decidedly unheroic. I
KM> like your musical choices, tho. :D

The "Marvell" I'm half-remembering had something to so with the SATA
ports on the motherboard and pretty sure is on a diferent computer.

Might have. These Asus boards use Marvell for IDE and Intel for SATA.

Need to check still - when go to the store tomorrow wil pick u psome
more Round TuIts.

They sell those now? I should get some...

KM> Yeah, sometimes undervoltaging/underclocking will solve a
KM> stability issue.

Right: if manufacturer's defaults too close to the edge just to get a
higher rating.....

Or when you've got something borderline-defective. Remember CPUs are batch-tested, then labeled according to how much of the tested sample
actually works.

Speaking of strange CPU Tricks: Lately realised that the Giant Server is functionally a Mac Pro. (Same CPUs and RAM type.) Since I've had no luck installing an OS, maybe I'll cannibalize it to build a Golem Mac. Step
one: find an appropriate standalone dual-LGA1366 mainboard.

KM> Among the weirds formerly infesting The Closet... pair of
KM> nominally identical early Pentium motherboards. Pair of early
KM> Pentium CPUs. Each board would only speak to one of the two CPUs,
KM> and only when misclocked: the 60MHz had to be set to 66MHz and
KM> the 66MHz had to be set to 60MHz. W.T.F.

<chuckle> I'd say 'mixed up labeling' bu that would make sense only if
you or someone else did the actual labeling of the two specific mother- boards and CPUs.

Nope, factory labeled. But those cranky boards gave me a longstanding
hatred* of Micro-Star. I think the reason I tried over-and-underclocking
was because back then, nearly all P75 CPUs were actually underlabeled
P90, to hit the market sweet spot. Figured the same might have happened
in the era just previous.

* Fortunately for them, about the time Micro-Star started branding
themselves as "MSI" their quality markedly improved, and they became one
of my preferred boards.

At least you figured out the problem: I pretty much go with the defaults
so don't fiddle with the overclocking/underclocking.

Same here. The New! Improved!! hardware reportedly overclocks stable to 4.5GHz, from its default 3.7GHz... while that's a pretty good jump, I'm
not doing anything that needs it, so why have to deal with that much
more heat?? and to really take advantage, I'd need to buy More!
Expensive!! RAM, and it already has 32GB of the Good Stuff That Matches Current CPU Settings, and was quite sufficiently expensive.
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Hi Ky!

KM> Yeah, usually a reasonable guess. If you open 'em up they likely
KM> aren't quite the same inside.
I should have cracked open the yellow ones! Thought I don't recall if
any problems with the blue ones and don't want to damage one just to
see: already annoying enough to have wasted money on the ones that
failed. ...<blink!> There might be another way: the 'lsusb' command displays a vendor:device code. I still have at least one yellow

It does?

Snippet:

Bus 004 Device 004: ID 046d:c31c Logitech, Inc. Keyboard K120
Bus 004 Device 003: ID 051d:0002 American Power Conversion
Uninterruptible Power Supply
Bus 004 Device 002: ID 046d:c05a Logitech, Inc. M90/M100 Optical Mouse

The mystery numbers after the "ID" is the four-digit vendor code
followed by the four-digit device code.

Copy the whole thing (so "046d:c31c" -- without the quotes), into the
search engine, should come up with a bunch of hits, The
usb-ids.gowdy.us is a good reference site.

thumbdrive left. ...Test later: don't want that testing to lock up the computer!

Haha, gee, why not? :D

'Cause <no carrier>. <g>

> Hmmmm! I'm recalling a failed thumbdrive (thought not which brand) where
> a recovery tool indicated the data went beyond the sector count -
> something like that.
KM> Yep, that's exactly what you'd see with a counterfeit.
<low sizzle> And as stupid as it may seem I will continue to
occasionally purchase cheap and potentially counterfeit thumbdrives: sometimes just need to work a few times to 'get there'.

Note to self: beat Barry with a stick until he learns better. <g>

Note to self: Ky's into kinky stuff! Get address. <bseg>


Actually probably just will be swatted with a twig on occasion (which
might hurt wose than that stick -- where's that tagline about BBS&M??)
-- had purchased a dozen or so 4 GB thumbdrives to use for transferring vacation pictures to my Mother in New Hampshire and my Aunt in Vienna
(I'm in Iowa): essentially throw-away thumbdrives as they'll look at the pictures a couple/few times.

You can get USB2 Sandisk 8GB and 16GB for about 4 bucks at
Walmart. If you don't have any USB3 ports, well, the price is
right. Too slow for everyday, but there ya go.

For personal use I've been purchasing USB 3's at 16 GB, in 'small bulk'
for discount prices, when on sale. Last were Kingston DataTravellers
and no failure -- knock on wood! (Ha-ha: the computer desk is wood!)
...Do have several SanDisk Ultras (USB 3.0, 16 GB). Hmm: Lexmark
Jumpdrive, USB 2.0, 128 MB. Seriously! It has a configuration file on
it and yes it does load slow!

> Will continue to ground-before-insert just as a good practice.
KM> If only because *I* don't like getting zapped. :)
So we have found out you're not into that cheap a thrill!! <gg>

I am no fun at an electrocution. :P

That comes as no shock! <rs!>

KM> Only Marvell ports I have are IDE, nowadays decidedly unheroic. I
KM> like your musical choices, tho. :D
The "Marvell" I'm half-remembering had something to so with the SATA
ports on the motherboard and pretty sure is on a different computer.

Might have. These Asus boards use Marvell for IDE and Intel for
SATA.

And I need to get to that testing (sorry about the delay) and note what
I have and what set to. And of course the problem is the lockup does
not occur constantly; will note what the original is and what
configuration, reset per your suggestions, and then see what heppens.

Need to check still - when go to the store tomorrow wil pick u psome
more Round TuIts.

They sell those now? I should get some...

Didn't find any and the people working there were thinking mught be out
of stock; a little hard to be sure as the store is being remodelled and everything is being moved around to make space to work the remodel.
Giant game of Hide and Seek with the merchandise!

KM> Yeah, sometimes undervoltaging/underclocking will solve a
KM> stability issue.
Right: if manufacturer's defaults too close to the edge just to get a
higher rating.....

Or when you've got something borderline-defective. Remember CPUs
are batch-tested, then labeled according to how much of the
tested sample actually works.

Sort of forgot about that 'trick'!

Speaking of strange CPU Tricks: Lately realised that the Giant
Server is functionally a Mac Pro. (Same CPUs and RAM type.) Since
I've had no luck installing an OS, maybe I'll cannibalize it to
build a Golem Mac. Step one: find an appropriate standalone
dual-LGA1366 mainboard.

There are only so many combinations of a version: I've got two
motherboards here which are essentially the same. Another version
comes without heat sinks I thing on SouthBridge: does the same work,
just don't 'make it sweat'.

KM> Among the weirds formerly infesting The Closet... pair of
KM> nominally identical early Pentium motherboards. Pair of early
KM> Pentium CPUs. Each board would only speak to one of the two CPUs,
KM> and only when misclocked: the 60MHz had to be set to 66MHz and
KM> the 66MHz had to be set to 60MHz. W.T.F.
<chuckle> I'd say 'mixed up labeling' bu that would make sense only if
you or someone else did the actual labeling of the two specific mother- boards and CPUs.

Nope, factory labeled. But those cranky boards gave me a
longstanding hatred* of Micro-Star. I think the reason I tried over-and-underclocking was because back then, nearly all P75 CPUs
were actually underlabeled P90, to hit the market sweet spot.
Figured the same might have happened in the era just previous.

Makes sense: if worked once might work again.

* Fortunately for them, about the time Micro-Star started
branding themselves as "MSI" their quality markedly improved, and
they became one of my preferred boards.

Gee, so you think maybe the initials stood for "Micro Star
Incorporated"? And both names sound familiar, and fairly certain I had
some MSI hardware.

At least you figured out the problem: I pretty much go with the defaults
so don't fiddle with the overclocking/underclocking.

Same here. The New! Improved!! hardware reportedly overclocks
stable to 4.5GHz, from its default 3.7GHz... while that's a
pretty good jump, I'm not doing anything that needs it, so why
have to deal with that much more heat?? and to really take
advantage, I'd need to buy More! Expensive!! RAM, and it already
has 32GB of the Good Stuff That Matches Current CPU Settings, and
was quite sufficiently expensive.

Right. Here the computer I use for recording TV (MythTV Backend) can
use 32 GB but it seems to be happy with half that -- I don't think I've
seen it use more than 30-40% of that.

This system has 32 GB installed 'cause I'm a little demanding at times.
I've not seen it use more than 25% - right now 6.4 GiB.



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¯ ®


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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

Snippet:

Bus 004 Device 004: ID 046d:c31c Logitech, Inc. Keyboard K120
Bus 004 Device 003: ID 051d:0002 American Power Conversion
Uninterruptible Power Supply
Bus 004 Device 002: ID 046d:c05a Logitech, Inc. M90/M100 Optical Mouse

Huh. Speaking of USB, whatever you have is contagious -- USB quit
entirely on this box (last week it was one of the NICs, so it's probably defective southbridge). In the process of doing a temporary swap into
its well-mannered twin brother... well, at least that simplifies the big upgrade, since now I can just dysmangle this one rather than have to
think about the best way to avoid disruption. Probably repurpose the
mainboard as a NAS or some such that doesn't need USB.

AND I see the 12v line is at only 10.9v, but whether that's the PSU or
the mainboard not drawing correctly is uncertain... but the 12v line
shouldn't affect USB (which is still at 5v). And I'm guessing it's
mainboard, because otherwise the spinney HDs would be complaining or
failing to start, and they're fine.

Regardless... Something Went Wrong! <g>

The mystery numbers after the "ID" is the four-digit vendor code
followed by the four-digit device code.

Copy the whole thing (so "046d:c31c" -- without the quotes), into the
search engine, should come up with a bunch of hits, The
usb-ids.gowdy.us is a good reference site.

That's tasty info :)

> thumbdrive left. ...Test later: don't want that testing to lock up the
> computer!
KM> Haha, gee, why not? :D
'Cause <no carrier>. <g>

No carrier, no picnic. BTW earlier today Techware was Connection Refused
... relieved that it's back!

KM> Note to self: beat Barry with a stick until he learns better. <g>
Note to self: Ky's into kinky stuff! Get address. <bseg>

666 Devil Road... <g>

Actually probably just will be swatted with a twig on occasion (which
might hurt wose than that stick -- where's that tagline about BBS&M??)

I dunno, my tagline file is AWOL. That's your job now. <g>

-- had purchased a dozen or so 4 GB thumbdrives to use for transferring vacation pictures to my Mother in New Hampshire and my Aunt in Vienna
(I'm in Iowa): essentially throw-away thumbdrives as they'll look at the pictures a couple/few times.

Yeah, if it's going out the door I don't worry overmuch. Which reminds
me, need to peel some stuff out of one of the resurrectees for its
former owner. Not that I need a dedicated Vista machine but it's already
set up and runs very well, so leaving well enough alone.

For personal use I've been purchasing USB 3's at 16 GB, in 'small bulk'
for discount prices, when on sale. Last were Kingston DataTravellers
and no failure -- knock on wood! (Ha-ha: the computer desk is wood!)

Kingston not my fave brand of anything. Most Failed RAM award. Like 90%
of the failed RAM I've seen (not much, but mostly theirs).

..Do have several SanDisk Ultras (USB 3.0, 16 GB). Hmm: Lexmark
Jumpdrive, USB 2.0, 128 MB. Seriously! It has a configuration file on
it and yes it does load slow!

I hope you mean 128GB and Lexar :)

> > Will continue to ground-before-insert just as a good practice.
> KM> If only because *I* don't like getting zapped. :)
> So we have found out you're not into that cheap a thrill!! <gg>
KM> I am no fun at an electrocution. :P
That comes as no shock! <rs!>

I prefer dynamic to static. <g>

And I need to get to that testing (sorry about the delay) and note what
I have and what set to. And of course the problem is the lockup does
not occur constantly; will note what the original is and what
configuration, reset per your suggestions, and then see what heppens.

You broke mine; why not yours? <g> This'un was cranky right out of the
box (was a gift and from the clearance bin, but new) and some of the USB
ports never worked. Now they ALL don't work. Power good, but no data.

> Need to check still - when go to the store tomorrow wil pick u psome
> more Round TuIts.
KM> They sell those now? I should get some...
Didn't find any and the people working there were thinking mught be out
of stock; a little hard to be sure as the store is being remodelled and everything is being moved around to make space to work the remodel.
Giant game of Hide and Seek with the merchandise!

WHO MOVED MY STUFF??

KM> Speaking of strange CPU Tricks: Lately realised that the Giant
KM> Server is functionally a Mac Pro. (Same CPUs and RAM type.) Since
KM> I've had no luck installing an OS, maybe I'll cannibalize it to
KM> build a Golem Mac. Step one: find an appropriate standalone
KM> dual-LGA1366 mainboard.

There are only so many combinations of a version: I've got two
motherboards here which are essentially the same. Another version
comes without heat sinks I thing on SouthBridge: does the same work,
just don't 'make it sweat'.

I got a rather pricey copper heatsink for Bullet for next time I have it
all apart... southbridge has an aluminum heatsink and a fan blowing
square on it, but it's not enough. Durn thing can hit a sustained 220F
under load. Boils eggs AND fries bacon!

KM> * Fortunately for them, about the time Micro-Star started
KM> branding themselves as "MSI" their quality markedly improved, and
KM> they became one of my preferred boards.

Gee, so you think maybe the initials stood for "Micro Star
Incorporated"? And both names sound familiar, and fairly certain I had
some MSI hardware.

Close :) Micro-Star International. Not that any of the P60 era were
much good that I saw, but their were exceptionally cranky and primitive,
like uppity 386s. But by the P3 era they were really nice.

Right. Here the computer I use for recording TV (MythTV Backend) can
use 32 GB but it seems to be happy with half that -- I don't think I've
seen it use more than 30-40% of that.

Yeah, only reason I've been doing the whole max-out 32GB on these Dells
is because, well, future-proofing. And one being a Hackintosh, if I get
around to Catalina will need ALL of it. (14GB just to admire its navel.)

Otherwise, probably only time I've used enough to notice is when two VMs
going at once. Why I'd do that escapes me. <g>

This system has 32 GB installed 'cause I'm a little demanding at times.
I've not seen it use more than 25% - right now 6.4 GiB.

Nice thing about plenty of RAM being I can give as much as necessary to
a VM and not be at all cramped.
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Hi Ky!

Snippet:
Bus 004 Device 004: ID 046d:c31c Logitech, Inc. Keyboard K120
Bus 004 Device 003: ID 051d:0002 American Power Conversion
Uninterruptible Power Supply
Bus 004 Device 002: ID 046d:c05a Logitech, Inc. M90/M100 Optical Mouse

Huh.

So I taught you something for a change! :)

Speaking of USB, whatever you have is contagious -- USB quit
entirely on this box (last week it was one of the NICs, so it's
probably defective southbridge).

That's not good! ...First thing I thought of was Linux/Ubuntu doens't
play nice with the IOMMU setting in the BIOS: during _installation_
needs to be toggled. You're way past installation so probably (almost definitely!) a false lead but figured I'd mention something anyway.

In the process of doing a
temporary swap into its well-mannered twin brother... well, at
least that simplifies the big upgrade, since now I can just
dysmangle this one rather than have to think about the best way
to avoid disruption. Probably repurpose the mainboard as a NAS or
some such that doesn't need USB.

Yes, I've been considering building a NAS of my own as the one pre-
built unit I have here is no longer supported. But First....

AND I see the 12v line is at only 10.9v, but whether that's the
PSU or the mainboard not drawing correctly is uncertain... but
the 12v line shouldn't affect USB (which is still at 5v). And I'm
guessing it's mainboard, because otherwise the spinney HDs would
be complaining or failing to start, and they're fine.

"Enquiring minds wanna know" so I did a quick Google search ("+12v rail
low voltage"). One reply suggested cleaning and reseating the mother-
borad and PSU connectors and if that didn't fix replace the PSU.

Further: "ATX spec allows for a 5% deviation above and below 12v. That
is, if the voltage reading is about 12.6 or 11.4 volts, the PSU is not functioning properly." That more for whoever else is reading this.
Also tends to verify for you a failing PSU, replacement of which would
be required for the new assignment. Would be nice if took care of the
USB issue too!

Regardless... Something Went Wrong! <g>

I tend to concur!

> thumbdrive left. ...Test later: don't want that testing to lock up the
> computer!
KM> Haha, gee, why not? :D
'Cause <no carrier>. <g>

No carrier, no picnic. BTW earlier today Techware was Connection
Refused ... relieved that it's back!

During yesterday's mailrun (Saturday morning, so probably the same as
what you're talking about) I just got a timeout from NetTerm. Might
still be some problems as this morning (Sunday) I only received one
message - your's - no automatic posts from Daryl.

KM> Note to self: beat Barry with a stick until he learns better. <g>
Note to self: Ky's into kinky stuff! Get address. <bseg>

666 Devil Road... <g>

And the town; think it's Wyoming. Maybe Montana. ...I may have to give
in and do a Google Maps search: is there a 666 Devil Rd., in Hell, MI?!

reminds me, need to peel some stuff out of one of the
resurrectees for its former owner. Not that I need a dedicated
Vista machine but it's already set up and runs very well, so
leaving well enough alone.

Nice 'gift with purchase' bonus!

For personal use I've been purchasing USB 3's at 16 GB, in 'small bulk'
for discount prices, when on sale. Last were Kingston DataTravellers
and no failure -- knock on wood! (Ha-ha: the computer desk is wood!)

Kingston not my fave brand of anything. Most Failed RAM award.
Like 90% of the failed RAM I've seen (not much, but mostly
theirs).

You're worrying me! I've used their SSDs as boot devices/boot and data
on some of the computers around here: thinking the basic technologies
between a USB thumbdrive and solid state drive are the same.

..Do have several SanDisk Ultras (USB 3.0, 16 GB). Hmm: Lexmark
Jumpdrive, USB 2.0, 128 MB. Seriously! It has a configuration file on
it and yes it does load slow!

I hope you mean 128GB and Lexar :)

Correction: it is Lexar, but no, it is 128 MB: Model JDSP128-04-500A.

> > Will continue to ground-before-insert just as a good practice.
> KM> If only because *I* don't like getting zapped. :)
> So we have found out you're not into that cheap a thrill!! <gg>
KM> I am no fun at an electrocution. :P
That comes as no shock! <rs!>

I prefer dynamic to static. <g>

AC? DC is more fun!

And I need to get to that testing (sorry about the delay) and note what
I have and what set to. And of course the problem is the lockup does
not occur constantly; will note what the original is and what
configuration, reset per your suggestions, and then see what heppens.

You broke mine; why not yours? <g> This'un was cranky right out
of the box (was a gift and from the clearance bin, but new) and
some of the USB ports never worked. Now they ALL don't work.
Power good, but no data.

LIS up there towards the top, the on-line stuff is suggesting a faulty
PSU -- easy enough to replace, and if it is failing should be replaced
for the motherboard's new function anyway. ...Assumed you've rebooted.

> Need to check still - when go to the store tomorrow wil pick u psome
> more Round TuIts.
KM> They sell those now? I should get some...
Didn't find any and the people working there were thinking mught be out
of stock; a little hard to be sure as the store is being remodelled and everything is being moved around to make space to work the remodel.
Giant game of Hide and Seek with the merchandise!

WHO MOVED MY STUFF??

It's kind of funny (IMO): some people are rather grouchy during the transitioning. OK, yeah: it's sometimes noisy and inconvenient. Then
there are others who look around and over the inconveniences and look
forward to the new-and-improved store that's coming. And my "hide and
go seek" comment (said in a fun way) seems to get the grumps out of it.

KM> Speaking of strange CPU Tricks: Lately realised that the Giant
KM> Server is functionally a Mac Pro. (Same CPUs and RAM type.) Since
KM> I've had no luck installing an OS, maybe I'll cannibalize it to
KM> build a Golem Mac. Step one: find an appropriate standalone
KM> dual-LGA1366 mainboard.
There are only so many combinations of a version: I've got two
motherboards here which are essentially the same. Another version
comes without heat sinks I thing on SouthBridge: does the same work,
just don't 'make it sweat'.

I got a rather pricey copper heatsink for Bullet for next time I
have it all apart... southbridge has an aluminum heatsink and a
fan blowing square on it, but it's not enough. Durn thing can hit
a sustained 220F under load. Boils eggs AND fries bacon!

Ky's Grill and Computer Repair!

KM> * Fortunately for them, about the time Micro-Star started
KM> branding themselves as "MSI" their quality markedly improved, and
KM> they became one of my preferred boards.
Gee, so you think maybe the initials stood for "Micro Star
Incorporated"? And both names sound familiar, and fairly certain I had
some MSI hardware.

Close :) Micro-Star International. Not that any of the P60 era
were much good that I saw, but their were exceptionally cranky
and primitive, like uppity 386s. But by the P3 era they were
really nice.

I was trying to remember why "MSI" sounded familiar -- thinking I had something of theirs but not recalling what. Maybe motherboard but
didn't sound right. Have or at least had a video card "MSI HD5450" -
file dated from 2011. Then also a MSI-branded video card with dual DVI.

Right. Here the computer I use for recording TV (MythTV Backend) can
use 32 GB but it seems to be happy with half that -- I don't think I've
seen it use more than 30-40% of that.

Yeah, only reason I've been doing the whole max-out 32GB on these
Dells is because, well, future-proofing. And one being a
Hackintosh, if I get around to Catalina will need ALL of it.
(14GB just to admire its navel.)

<snicker> It's not idling, it's pontificating! I was surprised both of
my systems were happy with 'just' the 16GB. This one I sometimes do
some intensive stuff, or to least to my brain seems like it. I don't
think I've ever used more than 6 GB of RAM but not going to remove any.
The Backend for the MythTV system originally had 32 GB installed, found
one stick was bad so pulled the pair and RMA'd. It worked fine with the remaining pair so when received the replacements decided to leave them
for another computer. (RAM usage comments based on System Monitor observations.)

Otherwise, probably only time I've used enough to notice is when
two VMs going at once. Why I'd do that escapes me. <g>

Because it's easier that starting up and shutting down the first one!

This system has 32 GB installed 'cause I'm a little demanding at times.
I've not seen it use more than 25% - right now 6.4 GiB.

Nice thing about plenty of RAM being I can give as much as
necessary to a VM and not be at all cramped.

I'll have to watch what happens when I play with multiple VMs. Right
now just use the one for XP. Do have a test Linux which I rarely use:
want it for trial/testing out ==> for example eventually will move the
X10 home automation (primarily turning on/off lighting) from XP to
Linux. Started some time back (with the old computer) and some of the utilities were (IMO) junk: no longer supported, horrible interface,
highly restricted as to what could do. Not necessarily these but in the
old coputer also had some utility trials which left behind remnants on removal.


¯ ®
¯ Barry_Martin_3@ ®
¯ @Q.COM ®
¯ ®


... And as the cream sauce said to the asparagus -- Happy Hollandaise!
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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

KM> Huh.
So I taught you something for a change! :)

It can happen, despite myself. <g>

KM> Speaking of USB, whatever you have is contagious -- USB quit
KM> entirely on this box (last week it was one of the NICs, so it's
KM> probably defective southbridge).

That's not good! ...First thing I thought of was Linux/Ubuntu doens't
play nice with the IOMMU setting in the BIOS: during _installation_
needs to be toggled. You're way past installation so probably (almost definitely!) a false lead but figured I'd mention something anyway.

WTF is IOMMU ??

Tho this is WinXP; its twin had PCLinuxOS on it, on a removable drive,
but since PCLOS is now on one of the Dells, that'un will be used to swap
out this'un so I can rebuild it with the New! Improved!! guts.

"Enquiring minds wanna know" so I did a quick Google search ("+12v rail
low voltage"). One reply suggested cleaning and reseating the mother-
borad and PSU connectors and if that didn't fix replace the PSU.

When I get it apart, I'll stick the PSU on the tester that reads
voltage; seems to be very accurate. I don't think anything this
mainboard says can be trusted at this point.

Further: "ATX spec allows for a 5% deviation above and below 12v. That
is, if the voltage reading is about 12.6 or 11.4 volts, the PSU is not functioning properly." That more for whoever else is reading this.
Also tends to verify for you a failing PSU, replacement of which would
be required for the new assignment. Would be nice if took care of the
USB issue too!

Probably won't, since the USB part has been goofy to absent since before
I got it: When I was gifted the pair I was told one had a failed
southbridge, but the giver says he mighta stuck that tag on the wrong
one. Well, I think we know that now! :)

KM> Regardless... Something Went Wrong! <g>

I tend to concur!

D'oh!! ("Something Went Wrong!" is the standard Mac error message. Very helpful, in Apple's usual way.)

> KM> Note to self: beat Barry with a stick until he learns better. <g>
> Note to self: Ky's into kinky stuff! Get address. <bseg>
KM> 666 Devil Road... <g>

And the town; think it's Wyoming. Maybe Montana. ...I may have to give
in and do a Google Maps search: is there a 666 Devil Rd., in Hell, MI?!

If not, there should be!

KM> reminds me, need to peel some stuff out of one of the
KM> resurrectees for its former owner. Not that I need a dedicated
KM> Vista machine but it's already set up and runs very well, so
KM> leaving well enough alone.

Nice 'gift with purchase' bonus!

Haha, yes. Thus have I acquired two copies of Vista, tho the one on the
faster machine ran like crap and was ejected for Win7, which runs better there. Someone please explain to me why two identical Vistas, neither
with any OEM crapware, have their hardware performance backwards!

> For personal use I've been purchasing USB 3's at 16 GB, in 'small bulk'
> for discount prices, when on sale. Last were Kingston DataTravellers
> and no failure -- knock on wood! (Ha-ha: the computer desk is wood!)
KM> Kingston not my fave brand of anything. Most Failed RAM award.
KM> Like 90% of the failed RAM I've seen (not much, but mostly
KM> theirs).
You're worrying me! I've used their SSDs as boot devices/boot and data
on some of the computers around here: thinking the basic technologies
between a USB thumbdrive and solid state drive are the same.

For scratch use I don't really care, but if I want to keep the data....

> ..Do have several SanDisk Ultras (USB 3.0, 16 GB). Hmm: Lexmark
> Jumpdrive, USB 2.0, 128 MB. Seriously! It has a configuration file on
> it and yes it does load slow!
KM> I hope you mean 128GB and Lexar :)

Correction: it is Lexar, but no, it is 128 MB: Model JDSP128-04-500A.

Really? Holy crap. I still have a Cruzer of that era somewhere, but gods
know which box it's in cuz it's nowhere to be found. In its day USB was
still so hit or miss that I never got in the habit of using it.

Niftiest flash drive: one in the shape of a padlock from Symantec (and
it's all metal, so it's as heavy as a real lock). You push in the hasp
to expose the USB connector. I don't know what I did to earn it, but one
day it arrived in the mail. Musta been conference fodder I'd long since forgotten about.

So went looking on eBay to see if it has any particular collector value (didn't find any samples) but discovered this actual combination lock
flash drive:

https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Storage/USB-Drives/flash-padlock-3-config/p/CMFPLA3B-16GB

(Which on ebay is listed at much higher prices, wtf.)

> > > Will continue to ground-before-insert just as a good practice.
> > KM> If only because *I* don't like getting zapped. :)
> > So we have found out you're not into that cheap a thrill!! <gg>
> KM> I am no fun at an electrocution. :P
> That comes as no shock! <rs!>
KM> I prefer dynamic to static. <g>
AC? DC is more fun!

Surely you can sing better than that. <g>

KM> of the box (was a gift and from the clearance bin, but new) and
KM> some of the USB ports never worked. Now they ALL don't work.
KM> Power good, but no data.
LIS up there towards the top, the on-line stuff is suggesting a faulty
PSU -- easy enough to replace, and if it is failing should be replaced
for the motherboard's new function anyway. ...Assumed you've rebooted.

And as I respond up above (we are nothing if not redundant!) PSU gets
tested too, when all apart. But board was already suspect, just had the
wrong suspect in custody. <g>

> Giant game of Hide and Seek with the merchandise!
KM> WHO MOVED MY STUFF??
It's kind of funny (IMO): some people are rather grouchy during the transitioning. OK, yeah: it's sometimes noisy and inconvenient. Then
there are others who look around and over the inconveniences and look
forward to the new-and-improved store that's coming. And my "hide and
go seek" comment (said in a fun way) seems to get the grumps out of it.

Haha, I'll use that on my fave people at Walmart next time they move everything. <g>

KM> I got a rather pricey copper heatsink for Bullet for next time I
KM> have it all apart... southbridge has an aluminum heatsink and a
KM> fan blowing square on it, but it's not enough. Durn thing can hit
KM> a sustained 220F under load. Boils eggs AND fries bacon!
Ky's Grill and Computer Repair!

Needed a small-footprint heatsink for an AMD hotplate that I didn't have
the right size ready to hand... so used the above copper heatsink. CPU
stayed tolerable but HOLY CRAP did this thing get hot. Yeah, it
transmits heat just fine!!

And I remember why I don't like AMD... damn things cook themselves in no
time flat. Was going through the pile of old motherboards ejecting those
that have gone NFG in storage (since I finally rediscovered the boxes
they were in) and found a couple trays of CPUs... seem to be a lot of variations among the AMDs, as they're not nearly as socket-agnostic as
Intels. And about half the AMDs were dead, but none of the Intels were.
Once I get 'em all tested and matched to one another, those AMD boards
might depart to eBay, not like I'm short and vintage gaming boards are
all the rage lately.

KM> Close :) Micro-Star International. Not that any of the P60 era
KM> were much good that I saw, but their were exceptionally cranky
KM> and primitive, like uppity 386s. But by the P3 era they were
KM> really nice.

I was trying to remember why "MSI" sounded familiar -- thinking I had something of theirs but not recalling what. Maybe motherboard but
didn't sound right. Have or at least had a video card "MSI HD5450" -
file dated from 2011. Then also a MSI-branded video card with dual DVI.

Yeah, they have vidcards now too (NVidia chips, IIRC), I have a couple
of 'em I picked up because they were reasonably modern yet fanless.

> Right. Here the computer I use for recording TV (MythTV Backend) can
> use 32 GB but it seems to be happy with half that -- I don't think I've
> seen it use more than 30-40% of that.
KM> Yeah, only reason I've been doing the whole max-out 32GB on these
KM> Dells is because, well, future-proofing. And one being a
KM> Hackintosh, if I get around to Catalina will need ALL of it.
KM> (14GB just to admire its navel.)
<snicker> It's not idling, it's pontificating! I was surprised both of

LOL! That sounds right. <g>

And I found a board I could transplant the Giant Server to (same CPUs
and RAM and it has onboard SAS) that is functionally identical to the
innards in a Mac Pro...

my systems were happy with 'just' the 16GB. This one I sometimes do
some intensive stuff, or to least to my brain seems like it. I don't
think I've ever used more than 6 GB of RAM but not going to remove any.

I try to max 'em out once the price comes down from bleeding edge,
because then it's done, as futureproofing.

The Backend for the MythTV system originally had 32 GB installed, found
one stick was bad so pulled the pair and RMA'd. It worked fine with the remaining pair so when received the replacements decided to leave them
for another computer. (RAM usage comments based on System Monitor observations.)

Falling under Good Enough For Purpose.

KM> Otherwise, probably only time I've used enough to notice is when
KM> two VMs going at once. Why I'd do that escapes me. <g>

Because it's easier that starting up and shutting down the first one!

That might be it!

Silly VM tricks: PCLOS will not speak consistently to the Windows
network. However, XP in a VM works fine with the network. So when I need
to move files, I fire up the XP VM and use it to copy stuff across the network. Very silly, but works without causing baldness.

> This system has 32 GB installed 'cause I'm a little demanding at times.
> I've not seen it use more than 25% - right now 6.4 GiB.
KM> Nice thing about plenty of RAM being I can give as much as
KM> necessary to a VM and not be at all cramped.
I'll have to watch what happens when I play with multiple VMs. Right
now just use the one for XP. Do have a test Linux which I rarely use:

I only have VMs for XP and for PCLOS/TDE, tho I might have to build one
for Fedora/KDE so I can have my deprecated font manager back. I'm sure
the only reason the TDE VM exists is so I can update it occasionally,
and admire Trinity's beauty and elegance, cuz I haven't used it for
anything!

want it for trial/testing out ==> for example eventually will move the
X10 home automation (primarily turning on/off lighting) from XP to

Being a troglodyte, I still use my finger on the switch. <g> I remember
when you installed the X10 -- I got one of the freebies they were
handing out at the time, but never used it.

.. And as the cream sauce said to the asparagus -- Happy Hollandaise!

<fondly> That's my tagline! <g>
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Hi Ky!

KM> Huh.
So I taught you something for a change! :)

It can happen, despite myself. <g>

"Sometimes better to bend in the breeze like the mighty willow."

KM> Speaking of USB, whatever you have is contagious -- USB quit
KM> entirely on this box (last week it was one of the NICs, so it's
KM> probably defective southbridge).

That's not good! ...First thing I thought of was Linux/Ubuntu doens't
play nice with the IOMMU setting in the BIOS: during _installation_
needs to be toggled. You're way past installation so probably (almost definitely!) a false lead but figured I'd mention something anyway.

WTF is IOMMU ??

IDK! <snicker>

Input Output Memory Management Unit -- which stil doesn't mean much to
me, especially as to get USB 2 and 3 working properly it's turn IOMMU
off, install Ubuntu with a additional command, on reboot turn IOMMU back
on and allow the install to complete. Instructions are on-line; not complicated, just the "why isn't it done automaticlly?" feeling.

Without this little 'dance' I had where the keyboard and mouse plugged
in to the rear USB 2.0 ports stopped working. My new machine also has
on the front panel a pair of USB 2 and USB 3 each. Front USB 2 also
didn't work but the USB 3 did. On reboot the USB 3 didn't work but the
UBS 2 did.... Arghhh!

My personal experience was 'annoying' but I also had a faulty RAM
stick. It tested fine on the quick tests so looked to be fine but a
couple of minutes into the extended testing and the errors popped up.

The RAM issue and the IOMMU issue combined... had thought of that
computer you said you hung on the fence as a lesson to the other
computers!

Tho this is WinXP; its twin had PCLinuxOS on it, on a removable
drive, but since PCLOS is now on one of the Dells, that'un will
be used to swap out this'un so I can rebuild it with the New!
Improved!! guts.

That almost needs to be drawn on the chalkboard to be understood! <g>
Have done similar here: build a new computer, upgrade others, maybe
change the usual usage, so to keep costs down reuse some hardware.

"Enquiring minds wanna know" so I did a quick Google search ("+12v rail
low voltage"). One reply suggested cleaning and reseating the mother-
borad and PSU connectors and if that didn't fix replace the PSU.

When I get it apart, I'll stick the PSU on the tester that reads
voltage; seems to be very accurate. I don't think anything this
mainboard says can be trusted at this point.

Make sure the readings are done under load: plug in an old inefficient current-sucking hard drive. I haven't had with a PSU but with a UPS
battery where the battery initially tests good but a hare more draw the battery fails (no output). Thinking a power supply could do similar:
work fine with a light draw, then shut off when the load becomes too
much. Yes, "fuse" and "circuit breaker" come to mind, so can "crowbar circuit" which is effectively an automatically resetting circuit
breaker.

Further: "ATX spec allows for a 5% deviation above and below 12v. That
is, if the voltage reading is about 12.6 or 11.4 volts, the PSU is not functioning properly." That more for whoever else is reading this.
Also tends to verify for you a failing PSU, replacement of which would
be required for the new assignment. Would be nice if took care of the
USB issue too!

Probably won't, since the USB part has been goofy to absent since
before I got it: When I was gifted the pair I was told one had a
failed southbridge, but the giver says he mighta stuck that tag
on the wrong one. Well, I think we know that now! :)

Would be funny if 'just' that IOMMU setting!

KM> Regardless... Something Went Wrong! <g>
I tend to concur!

D'oh!! ("Something Went Wrong!" is the standard Mac error
message. Very helpful, in Apple's usual way.)

Yeah: I know 'something went wrong'!

KM> reminds me, need to peel some stuff out of one of the
KM> resurrectees for its former owner. Not that I need a dedicated
KM> Vista machine but it's already set up and runs very well, so
KM> leaving well enough alone.
Nice 'gift with purchase' bonus!

Haha, yes. Thus have I acquired two copies of Vista, tho the one
on the faster machine ran like crap and was ejected for Win7,
which runs better there. Someone please explain to me why two
identical Vistas, neither with any OEM crapware, have their
hardware performance backwards!

Just to annoy you! I think it might be partially due to (how's that
for a wiggle-phrase?!) tolerances: slight variances in the individual
parts (even within integrated circuits, etc.), so a fraction gain here, fraction loss there.

> For personal use I've been purchasing USB 3's at 16 GB, in 'small bulk'
> for discount prices, when on sale. Last were Kingston DataTravellers
> and no failure -- knock on wood! (Ha-ha: the computer desk is wood!)
KM> Kingston not my fave brand of anything. Most Failed RAM award.
KM> Like 90% of the failed RAM I've seen (not much, but mostly
KM> theirs).
You're worrying me! I've used their SSDs as boot devices/boot and data
on some of the computers around here: thinking the basic technologies between a USB thumbdrive and solid state drive are the same.

For scratch use I don't really care, but if I want to keep the
data....

Backup! And backup the backup!

> ..Do have several SanDisk Ultras (USB 3.0, 16 GB). Hmm: Lexmark
> Jumpdrive, USB 2.0, 128 MB. Seriously! It has a configuration file on
> it and yes it does load slow!
KM> I hope you mean 128GB and Lexar :)
Correction: it is Lexar, but no, it is 128 MB: Model JDSP128-04-500A.

Really? Holy crap. I still have a Cruzer of that era somewhere,
but gods know which box it's in cuz it's nowhere to be found. In
its day USB was still so hit or miss that I never got in the
habit of using it.

I think Dad may have given it to me for use with a digital camera, or
maybe to Sneakernet, ...I'm trying to think what to do with it - just a
bit quirky but no one here really would know as they don't get into the details. I'm thinking maybe using it with an older Raspberry Pi for a
'fun' project.

Niftiest flash drive: one in the shape of a padlock from Symantec
(and it's all metal, so it's as heavy as a real lock). You push
in the hasp to expose the USB connector. I don't know what I did
to earn it, but one day it arrived in the mail. Musta been
conference fodder I'd long since forgotten about.

Don't drop it on your toe! I tend to avoid the cutsie devices but that
one would be fun to pullout of one's pocket and see others reactions
when used. Or have it hanging as a lock and plug it in!

So went looking on eBay to see if it has any particular collector
value (didn't find any samples) but discovered this actual
combination lock flash drive: https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Storage/USB-Driv es/flash-padl
ck-3-config/p/CMFPLA3B-16GB
(Which on ebay is listed at much higher prices, wtf.)

Ah! I was thinking the 'traditional' padlock with the curved metal bar
but that one is an attention-getter too. As far as eBay prices, I've
also found they are not always the lowest

> > > Will continue to ground-before-insert just as a good practice.
> > KM> If only because *I* don't like getting zapped. :)
> > So we have found out you're not into that cheap a thrill!! <gg>
> KM> I am no fun at an electrocution. :P
> That comes as no shock! <rs!>
KM> I prefer dynamic to static. <g>
AC? DC is more fun!

Surely you can sing better than that. <g>

I barely carry a tune in a bucket!

KM> of the box (was a gift and from the clearance bin, but new) and
KM> some of the USB ports never worked. Now they ALL don't work.
KM> Power good, but no data.
LIS up there towards the top, the on-line stuff is suggesting a faulty
PSU -- easy enough to replace, and if it is failing should be replaced
for the motherboard's new function anyway. ...Assumed you've rebooted.

And as I respond up above (we are nothing if not redundant!) PSU

You can say that again!

gets tested too, when all apart. But board was already suspect,
just had the wrong suspect in custody. <g>

"It was my evil twin, honest!"

> Giant game of Hide and Seek with the merchandise!
KM> WHO MOVED MY STUFF??
It's kind of funny (IMO): some people are rather grouchy during the transitioning. OK, yeah: it's sometimes noisy and inconvenient. Then
there are others who look around and over the inconveniences and look forward to the new-and-improved store that's coming. And my "hide and
go seek" comment (said in a fun way) seems to get the grumps out of it.

Haha, I'll use that on my fave people at Walmart next time they
move everything. <g>

Just be careful of to whom you say that: some think they're the ones
been seeked!

KM> I got a rather pricey copper heatsink for Bullet for next time I
KM> have it all apart... southbridge has an aluminum heatsink and a
KM> fan blowing square on it, but it's not enough. Durn thing can hit
KM> a sustained 220F under load. Boils eggs AND fries bacon!
Ky's Grill and Computer Repair!

Needed a small-footprint heatsink for an AMD hotplate that I
didn't have the right size ready to hand... so used the above
copper heatsink. CPU stayed tolerable but HOLY CRAP did this
thing get hot. Yeah, it transmits heat just fine!!

I'm think the "AMD approved" heatsink and fan for the CPU in this
computer isn't all that it should be. Had to air dust again the other
day but wasn't that much - yes, a a thin layer but seems like shouldn't
be killing the thing. The other computers up here have just as much
dust. Maybe a water cooler type? Any experience?

And I remember why I don't like AMD... damn things cook
themselves in no time flat. Was going through the pile of old
motherboards ejecting those that have gone NFG in storage (since
I finally rediscovered the boxes they were in) and found a couple
trays of CPUs... seem to be a lot of variations among the AMDs,
as they're not nearly as socket-agnostic as Intels. And about
half the AMDs were dead, but none of the Intels were. Once I get
'em all tested and matched to one another, those AMD boards might
depart to eBay, not like I'm short and vintage gaming boards are
all the rage lately.

If you have the storage room and the time to sell them. OTOH if it
weren't for people like you selling thir stuff on eBay people like me
couldn't buy stuff there!

(Maybe I should start avoiding AMD -- this computer is AMD but so is the
one I'm using for MythTV and it's fine.)

KM> Close :) Micro-Star International. Not that any of the P60 era
KM> were much good that I saw, but their were exceptionally cranky
KM> and primitive, like uppity 386s. But by the P3 era they were
KM> really nice.
I was trying to remember why "MSI" sounded familiar -- thinking I had something of theirs but not recalling what. Maybe motherboard but
didn't sound right. Have or at least had a video card "MSI HD5450" -
file dated from 2011. Then also a MSI-branded video card with dual DVI.

Yeah, they have vidcards now too (NVidia chips, IIRC), I have a
couple of 'em I picked up because they were reasonably modern yet
fanless.

I don't recall which is which right now but I have a fanless video card
which works/worked fine except the heat sink is so huge it extends into
the next slot position. Most do stay within their confines but some are
a bit tight.

> Right. Here the computer I use for recording TV (MythTV Backend) can
> use 32 GB but it seems to be happy with half that -- I don't think I've
> seen it use more than 30-40% of that.
KM> Yeah, only reason I've been doing the whole max-out 32GB on these
KM> Dells is because, well, future-proofing. And one being a
KM> Hackintosh, if I get around to Catalina will need ALL of it.
KM> (14GB just to admire its navel.)
<snicker> It's not idling, it's pontificating! I was surprised both of

LOL! That sounds right. <g>
And I found a board I could transplant the Giant Server to (same
CPUs and RAM and it has onboard SAS) that is functionally
identical to the innards in a Mac Pro...

So you going to post to Instructibles.com "How I Built My Own Mac Pro"?!

my systems were happy with 'just' the 16GB. This one I sometimes do
some intensive stuff, or to least to my brain seems like it. I don't
think I've ever used more than 6 GB of RAM but not going to remove any.

I try to max 'em out once the price comes down from bleeding
edge, because then it's done, as futureproofing.

Yes, I also try to futureproof -- have been burned a few times: need
some 5¬" floppies? As far as the thumbdrive capacity, it seems 16 GB is
more than enough for what I do. Of course I'm not running a business.
As for computers, the main ones are or were maxed out: the one used for recording TV shows does have 32 GB installed though I don't think it has
used even a quarter of it. This one (the one I'm one currently) also
had 32 GB but found one stick was faulty so needed to RMA that pair.
With and without that 16 GB pair always seems to use no more than 8 Gb
so just left the replacement out for use in some other project.

The Backend for the MythTV system originally had 32 GB installed, found
one stick was bad so pulled the pair and RMA'd. It worked fine with the remaining pair so when received the replacements decided to leave them
for another computer. (RAM usage comments based on System Monitor observations.)

Falling under Good Enough For Purpose.

Pretty much. :)

KM> Otherwise, probably only time I've used enough to notice is when
KM> two VMs going at once. Why I'd do that escapes me. <g>
Because it's easier that starting up and shutting down the first one!

That might be it!

I will admit to some "don' wanna wait" Syndrome!

Silly VM tricks: PCLOS will not speak consistently to the Windows
network. However, XP in a VM works fine with the network. So when
I need to move files, I fire up the XP VM and use it to copy
stuff across the network. Very silly, but works without causing
baldness.

I've noticed Copy & Paste doesn't work consistently across the VM either
-- like earlier when I wanted to look at your lock thumbdrive link.
Usually easier and faster to use the Linux Firefox than the VM Windows' Firefox but this time nothing would copy over. For some reason even had
a bit of a problem copying from XP's editor to XP Firefox (had to put
the three lines back to one).

As for networking, here I haven't needed to have a remote computer look
at VM XP but do need to have the local machine 'chat' with the virtual
one so created a 'rabbit hole': VM XP has a networked drive which
connects to a shared folder of the Linux machine.

> This system has 32 GB installed 'cause I'm a little demanding at times.
> I've not seen it use more than 25% - right now 6.4 GiB.
KM> Nice thing about plenty of RAM being I can give as much as
KM> necessary to a VM and not be at all cramped.
I'll have to watch what happens when I play with multiple VMs. Right
now just use the one for XP. Do have a test Linux which I rarely use:

I only have VMs for XP and for PCLOS/TDE, tho I might have to
build one for Fedora/KDE so I can have my deprecated font manager
back. I'm sure the only reason the TDE VM exists is so I can
update it occasionally, and admire Trinity's beauty and elegance,
cuz I haven't used it for anything!

Sometimes the 'purdy stuf' is just nice!

want it for trial/testing out ==> for example eventually will move the
X10 home automation (primarily turning on/off lighting) from XP to

Being a troglodyte, I still use my finger on the switch. <g> I
remember when you installed the X10 -- I got one of the freebies
they were handing out at the time, but never used it.

"Someone around here" used to have all sorts of timers and extension
cords to turn lights on and off automatically. Nice, but the cords
looked messy; main problem was the darn twice-a-year time change plus
the power would fail somewhat frequently because of the birds and
squirrels being curious about the pole transformer in the back yard.
(We're in a residential neighbourhood with lots of trees.) Reset the
time on the timers without battery backup....

Have found over the years the X10 signal is getting hard to be 'heard'.
120 KHz over powerline. (Insteaon is 130 KHz.) Noise created by UPSs,
some computer power supplies, other electronic devices. 120 KHz filters
help. Got to learn a little more about the two electric phases in
residential wiring, etc., while figuring out various issues. All but
one outlet we want to work automatically works properly with the X10 controller; it works fine with the remote control, which AFAICT works
through the same controller.

.. And as the cream sauce said to the asparagus -- Happy Hollandaise!

<fondly> That's my tagline! <g>

Spread the words! :)


¯ ®
¯ Barry_Martin_3@ ®
¯ @Q.COM ®
¯ ®


... Bad love lines: You set my heart aflame - you give me heartburn.
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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!
> So I taught you something for a change! :)
KM> It can happen, despite myself. <g>
"Sometimes better to bend in the breeze like the mighty willow."

Willow grow on riverbank. River flood, willow become raft. :P

KM> WTF is IOMMU ??
IDK! <snicker>

AASQ...

Input Output Memory Management Unit -- which stil doesn't mean much to
me, especially as to get USB 2 and 3 working properly it's turn IOMMU
off, install Ubuntu with a additional command, on reboot turn IOMMU back
on and allow the install to complete. Instructions are on-line; not complicated, just the "why isn't it done automaticlly?" feeling.

Um, yeah... stupid Debian under there... never, ever again want to hear
some linux weenie crow about all the interruptions during a Windows
install. Never had to babysit any OS install so much in my life, plus it
took an hour. Debian did not stay.

Conversely, PCLOS is a few clicks and takes five minutes.

Without this little 'dance' I had where the keyboard and mouse plugged
in to the rear USB 2.0 ports stopped working. My new machine also has
on the front panel a pair of USB 2 and USB 3 each. Front USB 2 also
didn't work but the USB 3 did. On reboot the USB 3 didn't work but the
UBS 2 did.... Arghhh!

There's a bug in a lot of mainboard designs where either front USB or
back USB will work, but not at the same time. This was so common for a
while I didn't bother plugging in the front ones.

My personal experience was 'annoying' but I also had a faulty RAM
stick. It tested fine on the quick tests so looked to be fine but a
couple of minutes into the extended testing and the errors popped up.

Well, that'll do it... RAM dies but rarely, but when it does...

The RAM issue and the IOMMU issue combined... had thought of that
computer you said you hung on the fence as a lesson to the other
computers!

That was a typewriter! But the principle is the same. It's Been Warned.

KM> Tho this is WinXP; its twin had PCLinuxOS on it, on a removable
KM> drive, but since PCLOS is now on one of the Dells, that'un will
KM> be used to swap out this'un so I can rebuild it with the New!
KM> Improved!! guts.

That almost needs to be drawn on the chalkboard to be understood! <g>
Have done similar here: build a new computer, upgrade others, maybe
change the usual usage, so to keep costs down reuse some hardware.

Haha... had been delaying because the logistics were untenable. Then
Silver's guts tried to die, so I can just eject 'em, no need to play
musical motherboards.

Anyway, that got done today... Silver is now sitting there empty and
naked, awaiting New! Improved!! innards, and Cash has been repurposed as
the WinXP machine, since it required nothing but copy the drive over and
wait for it to whine a bit about different video card. (Didn't want to
swap it because Cash might need to run its old PCLOS install again, and
linux throws more fits about such things.)

Addendum: Silver is now Silver II, with shiny 'new' (only 5 years old) innards, but yet awaiting an OS. XP won't run and I'd forgotten how
annoying naked Win7 is. Linux, sadly, isn't quite there for everyday.

KM> When I get it apart, I'll stick the PSU on the tester that reads
KM> voltage; seems to be very accurate. I don't think anything this
KM> mainboard says can be trusted at this point.

And according to the tester, the PSU is fine. However...

The reason the board was misbehaving was flamingly obvious once I had
all the other junk out of the way: Two blown capacitors, as in tried to explode and have rods of boiled-off gunk sticking out the top. (First
time I've seen a PC throw a rod...) So I'd guess those two caps just
happen to be in the voltage-control circuit, and durn good thing it
decided to fade rather than spike!

This was where I also noted a subtle difference between these identical
<??> boards:
Good one: PCB made in Taiwan.
Bad one: PCB made in China. (And version label is pasted on rather than silkscreened.)

Make sure the readings are done under load: plug in an old inefficient current-sucking hard drive. I haven't had with a PSU but with a UPS
battery where the battery initially tests good but a hare more draw the battery fails (no output). Thinking a power supply could do similar:

My tester simulates draw, tho you can usually get different readings by
adding a couple fans or HDs. I was already an Enermax bigot, and became
a worse one after I used it to test all the "tested good" PSUs and found
only Enermax were 100% good ALL the time (no spikes or sags).

work fine with a light draw, then shut off when the load becomes too
much. Yes, "fuse" and "circuit breaker" come to mind, so can "crowbar circuit" which is effectively an automatically resetting circuit
breaker.

Hadn't heard that term :D

Would be funny if 'just' that IOMMU setting!

It would be a lot better than two exploded capacitors!!

> KM> Regardless... Something Went Wrong! <g>
> I tend to concur!
KM> D'oh!! ("Something Went Wrong!" is the standard Mac error
KM> message. Very helpful, in Apple's usual way.)
Yeah: I know 'something went wrong'!

It sure did!

KM> Haha, yes. Thus have I acquired two copies of Vista, tho the one
KM> on the faster machine ran like crap and was ejected for Win7,
KM> which runs better there. Someone please explain to me why two
KM> identical Vistas, neither with any OEM crapware, have their
KM> hardware performance backwards!

Just to annoy you! I think it might be partially due to (how's that
for a wiggle-phrase?!) tolerances: slight variances in the individual
parts (even within integrated circuits, etc.), so a fraction gain here, fraction loss there.

No, these are different lines entirely. The faster Vista is an HP, Asus
board, AMD CPU (which are usually much slower than the nominally similar Intel). The slow Vista is a Dell, Foxconn board, Intel CPU -- tho it's
much better with Win7. So probably some Vista-specific driver that's
bogus on the Dell. I didn't care enough to pursue it; if I was gonna be annoyed by changes to the OS, might as well have Win7, which ran much
better.

> Correction: it is Lexar, but no, it is 128 MB: Model JDSP128-04-500A.
KM> Really? Holy crap. I still have a Cruzer of that era somewhere,
KM> but gods know which box it's in cuz it's nowhere to be found. In
KM> its day USB was still so hit or miss that I never got in the
KM> habit of using it.

I think Dad may have given it to me for use with a digital camera, or
maybe to Sneakernet, ...I'm trying to think what to do with it - just a
bit quirky but no one here really would know as they don't get into the details. I'm thinking maybe using it with an older Raspberry Pi for a
'fun' project.

And too good to throw away... as storage on a Pi sounds good. I wound up
with a bunch of flash drives I was using as Poor Man's external HDs.

KM> Niftiest flash drive: one in the shape of a padlock from Symantec
KM> (and it's all metal, so it's as heavy as a real lock). You push
KM> in the hasp to expose the USB connector. I don't know what I did
KM> to earn it, but one day it arrived in the mail. Musta been
KM> conference fodder I'd long since forgotten about.
Don't drop it on your toe! I tend to avoid the cutsie devices but that

This has already been done!

one would be fun to pullout of one's pocket and see others reactions
when used. Or have it hanging as a lock and plug it in!

Haha, yes :D

KM> So went looking on eBay to see if it has any particular collector
KM> value (didn't find any samples) but discovered this actual
KM> combination lock flash drive:
Ah! I was thinking the 'traditional' padlock with the curved metal bar

Like mine!

but that one is an attention-getter too. As far as eBay prices, I've
also found they are not always the lowest

True, especially as the pool of suckers expands.

> > > > Will continue to ground-before-insert just as a good

practice.

> > > KM> If only because *I* don't like getting zapped. :)
> > > So we have found out you're not into that cheap a thrill!! <gg>
> > KM> I am no fun at an electrocution. :P
> > That comes as no shock! <rs!>
> KM> I prefer dynamic to static. <g>
> AC? DC is more fun!
KM> Surely you can sing better than that. <g>
I barely carry a tune in a bucket!

And my bucket leaks.

KM> And as I respond up above (we are nothing if not redundant!) PSU
You can say that again!

That again!

KM> gets tested too, when all apart. But board was already suspect,
KM> just had the wrong suspect in custody. <g>

"It was my evil twin, honest!"

It was! more evil than we knew.

KM> Needed a small-footprint heatsink for an AMD hotplate that I
KM> didn't have the right size ready to hand... so used the above
KM> copper heatsink. CPU stayed tolerable but HOLY CRAP did this
KM> thing get hot. Yeah, it transmits heat just fine!!

I'm think the "AMD approved" heatsink and fan for the CPU in this
computer isn't all that it should be. Had to air dust again the other
day but wasn't that much - yes, a a thin layer but seems like shouldn't
be killing the thing. The other computers up here have just as much
dust. Maybe a water cooler type? Any experience?

AMD's stock heatsinks are crap -- too small and all aluminum. AMD CPUs
get too hot for anything less than copper core, and preferably solid
copper heatsink.

I got this for the better AMD: https://www.amazon.com/Adaptec-Socket-Heat-Sink-ACC-9520/dp/B000HRPHKE
Works absolutely wonderfully; dropped CPU temp by about 30 degrees. All
copper heatsink, and the fan is nearly silent, too.

Except I paid about $11 on eBay. And liked the first one so much that I ordered another, get while the getting was good. Fits the AM2+ socket
perfect; 939 socket not so much -- can be forced, but why bother, since
that thing is too slow to use for anything but dire emergencies.

KM> 'em all tested and matched to one another, those AMD boards might
KM> depart to eBay, not like I'm short and vintage gaming boards are
KM> all the rage lately.

If you have the storage room and the time to sell them. OTOH if it

I have the storage; I may not have the patience.

weren't for people like you selling thir stuff on eBay people like me couldn't buy stuff there!

True :D

(Maybe I should start avoiding AMD -- this computer is AMD but so is the
one I'm using for MythTV and it's fine.)

I'll take AMDs if they fall on my head, but I won't pay money for 'em.
Seen too many bugs and too many fails, and WAY too much not near as fast
as claimed once you set 'em to doing real work, not just gamer-suckering benchmarks. (Eg. Westworld's CPU supposedly is faster than a high-end Core2Quad. In Real Life it's about 40% slower than a midrange Core2Duo.)
And from the donor pile at AVMUG... about half the AMD-based boards
and/or CPUs were DOA. Few of the Intel-based boards, and NONE of the
Intel CPUs were dead.

KM> Yeah, they have vidcards now too (NVidia chips, IIRC), I have a
KM> couple of 'em I picked up because they were reasonably modern yet
KM> fanless.
I don't recall which is which right now but I have a fanless video card
which works/worked fine except the heat sink is so huge it extends into
the next slot position. Most do stay within their confines but some are
a bit tight.

I lied, I have four of the fanless sort, but all with compact heatsinks,
so they only drive in their own lane. <g> And I'm eyeing one on eBay,
with more RAM... Silver's new guts deserve better... <g>

I've seen the oversized kind, tho... and I have one of the 3rd party
radiator doodads. Got that with a used vidcard that was DOA (asked for
and got half refund on that one, cuz I'd really wanted the radiator) and
have a notion it might be useful for something other than vidcard.

> KM> Hackintosh, if I get around to Catalina will need ALL of it.
> KM> (14GB just to admire its navel.)
> <snicker> It's not idling, it's pontificating! I was surprised both of
KM> LOL! That sounds right. <g>
KM> And I found a board I could transplant the Giant Server to (same
KM> CPUs and RAM and it has onboard SAS) that is functionally
KM> identical to the innards in a Mac Pro...

So you going to post to Instructibles.com "How I Built My Own Mac Pro"?!

That's what this site is for <g>
https://www.tonymacx86.com/

One of the Dells is already a Hackintosh, albeit an older version, cuz
it's whatever-I-had-ready-to-hand. Everything worked out of the box
except the NIC, but I didn't bother installing kexts (drivers), so...
soon discovered that while 8gb was okay, it's a lot happier with 24gb. Geesh... this is a ten year old version....

Yes, I also try to futureproof -- have been burned a few times: need
some 5¬" floppies? As far as the thumbdrive capacity, it seems 16 GB is

Whoops! No thanks, I still have plenty!

more than enough for what I do. Of course I'm not running a business.

I liked how Techhole (youtube) described what he was doing so well that
I pilfered it for my Borg listing:

"I'm not a production environment, I'm a basement."

KM> Silly VM tricks: PCLOS will not speak consistently to the Windows
KM> network. However, XP in a VM works fine with the network. So when
KM> I need to move files, I fire up the XP VM and use it to copy
KM> stuff across the network. Very silly, but works without causing
KM> baldness.

I've noticed Copy & Paste doesn't work consistently across the VM either
-- like earlier when I wanted to look at your lock thumbdrive link.

Yeah, run into that too. Sometimes the setting doesn't stick. Or you
forget to set it (default in VBox is Off).

Usually easier and faster to use the Linux Firefox than the VM Windows' Firefox but this time nothing would copy over. For some reason even had
a bit of a problem copying from XP's editor to XP Firefox (had to put
the three lines back to one).

Kinda irritating when you know it SHOULD work...

As for networking, here I haven't needed to have a remote computer look
at VM XP but do need to have the local machine 'chat' with the virtual
one so created a 'rabbit hole': VM XP has a networked drive which
connects to a shared folder of the Linux machine.

My XP VM has no problem seeing the mandated host drive, so...

> want it for trial/testing out ==> for example eventually will move the
> X10 home automation (primarily turning on/off lighting) from XP to
KM> Being a troglodyte, I still use my finger on the switch. <g> I
KM> remember when you installed the X10 -- I got one of the freebies
KM> they were handing out at the time, but never used it.
"Someone around here" used to have all sorts of timers and extension
cords to turn lights on and off automatically. Nice, but the cords
looked messy; main problem was the darn twice-a-year time change plus

Did any of yours throw up on Feb.29th? had one decide it was some random number of hours earlier, on the day before. And did so somewhere in the
middle of the day, so it wasn't even at midnight.

the power would fail somewhat frequently because of the birds and
squirrels being curious about the pole transformer in the back yard.
(We're in a residential neighbourhood with lots of trees.) Reset the
time on the timers without battery backup....

Ooops.

> .. And as the cream sauce said to the asparagus -- Happy Hollandaise!
KM> <fondly> That's my tagline! <g>

Spread the words! :)

Where's the butter knife??

.. Bad love lines: You set my heart aflame - you give me heartburn.

Definitely something lost in translation. <g>
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Hi Ky!

> So I taught you something for a change! :)
KM> It can happen, despite myself. <g>
"Sometimes better to bend in the breeze like the mighty willow."

Willow grow on riverbank. River flood, willow become raft. :P

Sell to a person downriver: bye/buy raft@!

KM> WTF is IOMMU ??
IDK! <snicker>

AASQ...

Get a thousand replies in the forum!

Input Output Memory Management Unit -- which stil doesn't mean much to
me, especially as to get USB 2 and 3 working properly it's turn IOMMU
off, install Ubuntu with a additional command, on reboot turn IOMMU back
on and allow the install to complete. Instructions are on-line; not complicated, just the "why isn't it done automaticlly?" feeling.

Um, yeah... stupid Debian under there... never, ever again want
to hear some linux weenie crow about all the interruptions during
a Windows install. Never had to babysit any OS install so much in
my life, plus it took an hour. Debian did not stay.

I'll have to agree somewhat: did have to babysit the IOMMU part but the
rest of the install went fine -- once I found out the one RAM stick was
faulty. Seems like the IOMMU switching issue could and should be worked
around -- can't be done remotely.

Conversely, PCLOS is a few clicks and takes five minutes.

"All depends": my Ubuntu 18.04 install -- once figured out the problems
-- took maybe a half-hour to forty-five minutes and that was with the
automatic updates. Took a while to format the drive (3 TB), then
installed Firefox, LibreOffice, etc., from the ISO, and then uninstall
and install the updated versions because I had ticked to install
updates during the install. Seems would be easier and certainly faster
to "if new available then don't install old" but probably easier said
than done.

Without this little 'dance' I had where the keyboard and mouse plugged
in to the rear USB 2.0 ports stopped working. My new machine also has
on the front panel a pair of USB 2 and USB 3 each. Front USB 2 also
didn't work but the USB 3 did. On reboot the USB 3 didn't work but the
UBS 2 did.... Arghhh!

There's a bug in a lot of mainboard designs where either front
USB or back USB will work, but not at the same time. This was so
common for a while I didn't bother plugging in the front ones.

I don't think I've run in to that one -- plug in a thumbdrive and the
mouse and keyboard stop working!!

My personal experience was 'annoying' but I also had a faulty RAM
stick. It tested fine on the quick tests so looked to be fine but a
couple of minutes into the extended testing and the errors popped up.

Well, that'll do it... RAM dies but rarely, but when it does...

It was brand-new-slice-open-package but still still can be faulty. Like probably most people I assumed it was good. The stick passed the quick
tests, which is what I would guess install procedures use to check. Oh
well - good training experience. Frustrating, though!

The RAM issue and the IOMMU issue combined... had thought of that
computer you said you hung on the fence as a lesson to the other
computers!

That was a typewriter! But the principle is the same. It's Been
Warned.

Probably easier to hang a typewriter on a fence than a computer!

KM> Tho this is WinXP; its twin had PCLinuxOS on it, on a removable
KM> drive, but since PCLOS is now on one of the Dells, that'un will
KM> be used to swap out this'un so I can rebuild it with the New!
KM> Improved!! guts.
That almost needs to be drawn on the chalkboard to be understood! <g>
Have done similar here: build a new computer, upgrade others, maybe
change the usual usage, so to keep costs down reuse some hardware.

Haha... had been delaying because the logistics were untenable.
Then Silver's guts tried to die, so I can just eject 'em, no need
to play musical motherboards.

That makes things easier when don't have to have two boxes working at
the same time. I've reused cases, though some times have found it would
have been easier to get new: one recent issue was the cables for the ATX
Power Connector were squished under the HDD cage. Must have been for a
smaller verions of the ATX motherboard.

Anyway, that got done today... Silver is now sitting there empty
and naked, awaiting New! Improved!! innards, and Cash has been
repurposed as the WinXP machine, since it required nothing but
copy the drive over and wait for it to whine a bit about
different video card. (Didn't want to swap it because Cash might
need to run its old PCLOS install again, and linux throws more
fits about such things.)

I don't recall having to much problem with Linux and video, though I may
have been side-stepping it because of a preference of MythTV in the past
to have liked nVidia over other options,

Addendum: Silver is now Silver II, with shiny 'new' (only 5 years
old) innards, but yet awaiting an OS. XP won't run and I'd
forgotten how annoying naked Win7 is. Linux, sadly, isn't quite
there for everyday.

XP probably needs approval from Redmond so that might be the answer to
that problem. (Wonder what will happen when I install a new virtual XP?
The current ones I think were before the end of support.)

As for Linux and everyday, around here seems to be fine. Do run into
issues where 'only runs under Windows' but that's similar to when the
Macs were the go-to machine for graphic design. (Bet there's a more up- to-date example, just can't come up with one based on what I do.)

KM> When I get it apart, I'll stick the PSU on the tester that reads
KM> voltage; seems to be very accurate. I don't think anything this
KM> mainboard says can be trusted at this point.

And according to the tester, the PSU is fine. However...

Seems to point to mainboard issues. Or something attached drawing more
power than should.

The reason the board was misbehaving was flamingly obvious once I
had all the other junk out of the way: Two blown capacitors, as
in tried to explode and have rods of boiled-off gunk sticking out
the top. (First time I've seen a PC throw a rod...) So I'd guess
those two caps just happen to be in the voltage-control circuit,
and durn good thing it decided to fade rather than spike!

Ah! Those cap's would do it! I had a NARRA5 motherboard with a few of
those. The cap's weren't quite as bad as what you described.

This was where I also noted a subtle difference between these
identical <??> boards:
Good one: PCB made in Taiwan.
Bad one: PCB made in China. (And version label is pasted on
rather than silkscreened.)

Initially I'd guess the same board just made in two different factories
but the version lable thing almost indicates some other minor difference
-- addition of a component manually tacked in? Used the old motherboard supply.

Make sure the readings are done under load: plug in an old inefficient current-sucking hard drive. I haven't had with a PSU but with a UPS
battery where the battery initially tests good but a hare more draw the battery fails (no output). Thinking a power supply could do similar:

My tester simulates draw, tho you can usually get different
readings by adding a couple fans or HDs. I was already an Enermax
bigot, and became a worse one after I used it to test all the
"tested good" PSUs and found only Enermax were 100% good ALL the
time (no spikes or sags).

Sort of because of you I've been using PSUs with higher current/wattage capabilities. If a PSU needs replacing have been increasing the specs
-- orig 300 W, replace with a 700W, for example. Sometimes can't: have
at least one computer where the PSU has to be the same to fit because
of the L-shape.

work fine with a light draw, then shut off when the load becomes too
much. Yes, "fuse" and "circuit breaker" come to mind, so can "crowbar circuit" which is effectively an automatically resetting circuit
breaker.

Hadn't heard that term :D

Learn something new! And don't necessarily have to know how it works,
just is and is a different way of protecting a circuit.

Would be funny if 'just' that IOMMU setting!

It would be a lot better than two exploded capacitors!!

Which probably also means other are ready to!

> KM> Regardless... Something Went Wrong! <g>
> I tend to concur!
KM> D'oh!! ("Something Went Wrong!" is the standard Mac error
KM> message. Very helpful, in Apple's usual way.)
Yeah: I know 'something went wrong'!

It sure did!

Plus reminded me of Dad's tube-type amplifier. We smelt something 'hot'
but couldn't figure out what it was. Music was on. I finally happened
to see something odd through the grill vents ==> was a resistor about
the diameter and length on one's little finger glowing red hot. Ended
up a capacitor failed, causing too much current through the resistor,
causing it to glow (was wirewound and IIRC 7 Watts -- think the brighter
of the two night light bulbs available), also damaged another resistor
which was 25 W ==> could see the plastic covering had melted some.

KM> Haha, yes. Thus have I acquired two copies of Vista, tho the one
KM> on the faster machine ran like crap and was ejected for Win7,
KM> which runs better there. Someone please explain to me why two
KM> identical Vistas, neither with any OEM crapware, have their
KM> hardware performance backwards!
Just to annoy you! I think it might be partially due to (how's that
for a wiggle-phrase?!) tolerances: slight variances in the individual
parts (even within integrated circuits, etc.), so a fraction gain here, fraction loss there.

No, these are different lines entirely. The faster Vista is an
HP, Asus board, AMD CPU (which are usually much slower than the
nominally similar Intel). The slow Vista is a Dell, Foxconn
board, Intel CPU -- tho it's much better with Win7. So probably
some Vista-specific driver that's bogus on the Dell. I didn't
care enough to pursue it; if I was gonna be annoyed by changes to
the OS, might as well have Win7, which ran much better.

I'm starting to think for future builds I should go back to Intel. When
I started Linux Intel was more compatible so went with them. Then
either AMD wised up and saw they were missing out in the marketplace and
so worked with Linux. Your comments, others' comments, and a bit of
personal experience indicate Intel is still the better of the two.

> Correction: it is Lexar, but no, it is 128 MB: Model JDSP128-04-500A.
KM> Really? Holy crap. I still have a Cruzer of that era somewhere,
KM> but gods know which box it's in cuz it's nowhere to be found. In
KM> its day USB was still so hit or miss that I never got in the
KM> habit of using it.
I think Dad may have given it to me for use with a digital camera, or
maybe to Sneakernet, ...I'm trying to think what to do with it - just a
bit quirky but no one here really would know as they don't get into the details. I'm thinking maybe using it with an older Raspberry Pi for a
'fun' project.

And too good to throw away... as storage on a Pi sounds good. I
wound up with a bunch of flash drives I was using as Poor Man's
external HDs.

For fun I had the Lexar 128 MB on this machine for a while -- shows up
on the Desktop as an external drive and I did use it a few times as a scratchpad device. ...Hanging it off a RPi seems a logical use, though
still a bit odd as have been using microSDs of 32 and 64 GB. Maybe SneakerNet? Will find some 'quirky' use!

KM> Niftiest flash drive: one in the shape of a padlock from Symantec
KM> (and it's all metal, so it's as heavy as a real lock). You push
KM> in the hasp to expose the USB connector. I don't know what I did
KM> to earn it, but one day it arrived in the mail. Musta been
KM> conference fodder I'd long since forgotten about.
Don't drop it on your toe! I tend to avoid the cutsie devices but that

This has already been done!

Yup! It's solidly made! <hopping around, grasping throbbing tootsie>

KM> So went looking on eBay to see if it has any particular collector
KM> value (didn't find any samples) but discovered this actual
KM> combination lock flash drive:
Ah! I was thinking the 'traditional' padlock with the curved metal bar

Like mine!

Oh! They must have changed design: the link displayed one which was long
and narrow and had three or four laterally rotating number rings, and I
don't recall a metal bar latch. Yours (and my original visualization)
is like a typical lock:
--
/ \
| |
_________
| |
| |
| |
-------

but that one is an attention-getter too. As far as eBay prices, I've
also found they are not always the lowest

True, especially as the pool of suckers expands.

And true of other advertisers. I get various e-advertisements (glance
through and delete) - occasionally something will catch my eye and when
go check the sale price it's the same or close to other sources, so
either all all selling around the same price. ...OTOH have seen where everybody is selling at (say) $45-55 and a couple of vendors selling the
same thing for several hundred dollars.

> > > > Will continue to ground-before-insert just as a good

ractice

> > > KM> If only because *I* don't like getting zapped. :)
> > > So we have found out you're not into that cheap a thrill!! <gg>
> > KM> I am no fun at an electrocution. :P
> > That comes as no shock! <rs!>
> KM> I prefer dynamic to static. <g>
> AC? DC is more fun!
KM> Surely you can sing better than that. <g>
I barely carry a tune in a bucket!

And my bucket leaks.

Why am I thinking "incontinence hotline - can you hold please?" joke?!

KM> And as I respond up above (we are nothing if not redundant!) PSU
You can say that again!

That again!

Good night, Gracie!

KM> gets tested too, when all apart. But board was already suspect,
KM> just had the wrong suspect in custody. <g>
"It was my evil twin, honest!"

It was! more evil than we knew.

"Look at meee!" <squirt> ("Hehe: clown's squirting flower have
nothing on me!")

KM> Needed a small-footprint heatsink for an AMD hotplate that I
KM> didn't have the right size ready to hand... so used the above
KM> copper heatsink. CPU stayed tolerable but HOLY CRAP did this
KM> thing get hot. Yeah, it transmits heat just fine!!
I'm think the "AMD approved" heatsink and fan for the CPU in this
computer isn't all that it should be. Had to air dust again the other
day but wasn't that much - yes, a a thin layer but seems like shouldn't
be killing the thing. The other computers up here have just as much
dust. Maybe a water cooler type? Any experience?

AMD's stock heatsinks are crap -- too small and all aluminum. AMD
CPUs get too hot for anything less than copper core, and
preferably solid copper heatsink.

OK - so they tend to save money where they should not.

I got this for the better AMD: https://www.amazon.com/Adaptec-Socket-Heat-Sink-ACC-9520/dp/B000HR
PHKE
Works absolutely wonderfully; dropped CPU temp by about 30
degrees. All copper heatsink, and the fan is nearly silent, too.

OK, thanks! I'll check to make certain fits mine (FX-8320) and order. ...PSensor, etc., the CPU temperature did seem to be too hot. And some runnings sent it over.

Except I paid about $11 on eBay. And liked the first one so much
that I ordered another, get while the getting was good. Fits the
AM2+ socket perfect; 939 socket not so much -- can be forced, but
why bother, since that thing is too slow to use for anything but
dire emergencies.

IIRC this is a AM3+ socket but should get me in the right area. As for prices, I do check multiple sourcres. :)

KM> 'em all tested and matched to one another, those AMD boards might
KM> depart to eBay, not like I'm short and vintage gaming boards are
KM> all the rage lately.
If you have the storage room and the time to sell them. OTOH if it

I have the storage; I may not have the patience.

It would be interesting to see how long some of the items have been
listed on eBay.

(Maybe I should start avoiding AMD -- this computer is AMD but so is the
one I'm using for MythTV and it's fine.)

I'll take AMDs if they fall on my head, but I won't pay money for
'em. Seen too many bugs and too many fails, and WAY too much not
near as fast as claimed once you set 'em to doing real work, not
just gamer-suckering benchmarks. (Eg. Westworld's CPU supposedly
is faster than a high-end Core2Quad. In Real Life it's about 40%
slower than a midrange Core2Duo.) And from the donor pile at
AVMUG... about half the AMD-based boards and/or CPUs were DOA.
Few of the Intel-based boards, and NONE of the Intel CPUs were
dead.

Hmmmmmm!! Seems to verify what I'm typed up there a bit! LIS (I think
-- too lazy to scroll up), it seems AMD is good but Intel is better.
Quite sure there are exceptions (I still refuse to buy Celeron!) but
seems like I ran into less problems with Intel-based stuff. And that statement is probably somewhat biased as I don't have any Intel-based
boards with IOMMU, or at least I know of.

KM> Yeah, they have vidcards now too (NVidia chips, IIRC), I have a
KM> couple of 'em I picked up because they were reasonably modern yet
KM> fanless.
I don't recall which is which right now but I have a fanless video card which works/worked fine except the heat sink is so huge it extends into
the next slot position. Most do stay within their confines but some are
a bit tight.

I lied, I have four of the fanless sort, but all with compact
heatsinks, so they only drive in their own lane. <g> And I'm
eyeing one on eBay, with more RAM... Silver's new guts deserve
better... <g>

<chuckle> OTTOMH I'd say go with a video card of at least 1 GB if not
2. Less will cause video tearing, or at least does with MythTV playback
of a HD source. I have no experience with 4K videos, though "Big Buck
Bunny, Sunflower Version" at 4000x4500 seems to be OK here onthis
computer -- may be 'cut back'/throttled by the video card (2GB?) and or monitor.

I've seen the oversized kind, tho... and I have one of the 3rd
party radiator doodads. Got that with a used vidcard that was DOA
(asked for and got half refund on that one, cuz I'd really wanted
the radiator) and have a notion it might be useful for something
other than vidcard.

Heating your place?! <gg>

> KM> Hackintosh, if I get around to Catalina will need ALL of it.
> KM> (14GB just to admire its navel.)
> <snicker> It's not idling, it's pontificating! I was surprised both of
KM> LOL! That sounds right. <g>
KM> And I found a board I could transplant the Giant Server to (same
KM> CPUs and RAM and it has onboard SAS) that is functionally
KM> identical to the innards in a Mac Pro...
So you going to post to Instructibles.com "How I Built My Own Mac Pro"?!

That's what this site is for <g>
https://www.tonymacx86.com/

Hmm: someone else thinks like you do?!

One of the Dells is already a Hackintosh, albeit an older
version, cuz it's whatever-I-had-ready-to-hand. Everything worked
out of the box except the NIC, but I didn't bother installing
kexts (drivers), so... soon discovered that while 8gb was okay,
it's a lot happier with 24gb. Geesh... this is a ten year old
version....

New isn't always better. I have used USB NICs temporarily -- I thnik
the last time was when trying to figure out what was wrong before
finding out the one RAM stick was bad.

Yes, I also try to futureproof -- have been burned a few times: need
some 5¬" floppies? As far as the thumbdrive capacity, it seems 16 GB is

Whoops! No thanks, I still have plenty!

<chuckle> So I suppose you don't need any 3«'s either!

more than enough for what I do. Of course I'm not running a business.

I liked how Techhole (youtube) described what he was doing so
well that I pilfered it for my Borg listing:
"I'm not a production environment, I'm a basement."

Not distracted by the corporate cubicles!

KM> Silly VM tricks: PCLOS will not speak consistently to the Windows
KM> network. However, XP in a VM works fine with the network. So when
KM> I need to move files, I fire up the XP VM and use it to copy
KM> stuff across the network. Very silly, but works without causing
KM> baldness.
I've noticed Copy & Paste doesn't work consistently across the VM either
-- like earlier when I wanted to look at your lock thumbdrive link.

Yeah, run into that too. Sometimes the setting doesn't stick. Or
you forget to set it (default in VBox is Off).

Here seems to be more the settings don't stick, or maybe more don't
insert themselves as it's the same VM, just sometimes works and
sometimes doesn't, then magically starts working on a reboot. Just
grumble and use a file in the shared directory to copy things over.

Usually easier and faster to use the Linux Firefox than the VM Windows' Firefox but this time nothing would copy over. For some reason even had
a bit of a problem copying from XP's editor to XP Firefox (had to put
the three lines back to one).

Kinda irritating when you know it SHOULD work...

Uh-huh! And worked the other day before the reboot! I half-think
there are a few things where faster isn't better: the faster speed
doesn't allow time for a function to load if another function takes a split-second longer than normal. Maybe the HDD needed an extra rotation because something else was being checked while trying to load this other parameter..... <shrug>

As for networking, here I haven't needed to have a remote computer look
at VM XP but do need to have the local machine 'chat' with the virtual
one so created a 'rabbit hole': VM XP has a networked drive which
connects to a shared folder of the Linux machine.

My XP VM has no problem seeing the mandated host drive, so...

Nor mine -- maybe I misphrased something.

> want it for trial/testing out ==> for example eventually will move the
> X10 home automation (primarily turning on/off lighting) from XP to
KM> Being a troglodyte, I still use my finger on the switch. <g> I
KM> remember when you installed the X10 -- I got one of the freebies
KM> they were handing out at the time, but never used it.
"Someone around here" used to have all sorts of timers and extension
cords to turn lights on and off automatically. Nice, but the cords
looked messy; main problem was the darn twice-a-year time change plus

Did any of yours throw up on Feb.29th? had one decide it was some
random number of hours earlier, on the day before. And did so
somewhere in the middle of the day, so it wasn't even at
midnight.

Not that I noticed: all the lights worked normally. Interface is the
USB one (vs. the serial one - forgot the numbers right now).

the power would fail somewhat frequently because of the birds and
squirrels being curious about the pole transformer in the back yard.
(We're in a residential neighbourhood with lots of trees.) Reset the
time on the timers without battery backup....

Ooops.

One of the reasons why most of the computers are on UPS (a couple of the
RPi's are not) as is some lighting, plus a few of the plug-in battery-
powered emergency lights: it gets dark when the power goes out at night!

> .. And as the cream sauce said to the asparagus -- Happy Hollandaise!
KM> <fondly> That's my tagline! <g>
Spread the words! :)

Where's the butter knife??

Unless it's frozen solid I find a metal one works better!

.. Bad love lines: You set my heart aflame - you give me heartburn.

Definitely something lost in translation. <g>

A while back I was doing an English to either German or Hungarian letter
to go with a card. The original English was right but the 'retranslate'
(check German/Hungarian back to English) and rather than something like
"it's hot here" the machine translate said something like "he was
roasted in the oven"!!


¯ ®
¯ Barry_Martin_3@ ®
¯ @Q.COM ®
¯ ®


... "I'm living beyond my means, but I can afford it." -- Sam Goldwyn.
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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

So I taught you something for a change! :)

It can happen, despite myself. <g>

"Sometimes better to bend in the breeze like the mighty willow."

Willow grow on riverbank. River flood, willow become raft. :P

Sell to a person downriver: bye/buy raft@!

Good deals! sold to swimmers only.

WTF is IOMMU ??

IDK! <snicker>

AASQ...

Get a thousand replies in the forum!

This is true. :D

Um, yeah... stupid Debian under there... never, ever again want
to hear some linux weenie crow about all the interruptions during
a Windows install. Never had to babysit any OS install so much in
my life, plus it took an hour. Debian did not stay.

I'll have to agree somewhat: did have to babysit the IOMMU part but the
rest of the install went fine -- once I found out the one RAM stick was faulty. Seems like the IOMMU switching issue could and should be worked around -- can't be done remotely.

Works fine, just requires a lot of fiddling, and is very very slow.
>

Conversely, PCLOS is a few clicks and takes five minutes.

"All depends": my Ubuntu 18.04 install -- once figured out the problems

Nope, not. Even PCLOS's fully loaded 4GB ISO takes five minutes. Fact is
the older linux installers were ....awful.

PCLOS now has a script that tho doesn't do updates on its own, lets you
know when to click the bell and get it done automagically. Think this
contaged over from Fedora, only other place I've seen it. Painless and no-brainer.

The advantage of a rolling distro: one of our regulars did an update
from the oldest KDE edition he could get to run (2012) and with only a
couple halts to dick with CLI due to WTFs, in an hour or so achieved a
fully updated system where everything worked.

-- took maybe a half-hour to forty-five minutes and that was with the automatic updates. Took a while to format the drive (3 TB), then
installed Firefox, LibreOffice, etc., from the ISO, and then uninstall
and install the updated versions because I had ticked to install
updates during the install. Seems would be easier and certainly faster
to "if new available then don't install old" but probably easier said
than done.

How about just release an updated version ??!

My original PCLOS has been frozen since 2017 (didn't want to deal with
nVidia issues, nor lose my deprecated font manager) but I've
experimentally done a full update on it... took a while to download a
whole new monkey, but installed without a hitch.

There's a bug in a lot of mainboard designs where either front
USB or back USB will work, but not at the same time. This was so
common for a while I didn't bother plugging in the front ones.

I don't think I've run in to that one -- plug in a thumbdrive and the
mouse and keyboard stop working!!

No, I mean only one or the other will EVER work; you don't get a choice.
If you plug in a thumbdrive and other stuff stops working, probably has
not enough power to the ports. Which might be what's going on with these boards -- can't deliver enough juice so just turns one off.

Well, that'll do it... RAM dies but rarely, but when it does...

It was brand-new-slice-open-package but still still can be faulty. Like

Yeah... *cough* Kingston...

probably most people I assumed it was good. The stick passed the quick tests, which is what I would guess install procedures use to check. Oh
well - good training experience. Frustrating, though!

Irritating too!

The RAM issue and the IOMMU issue combined... had thought of that
computer you said you hung on the fence as a lesson to the other
computers!

That was a typewriter! But the principle is the same. It's Been
Warned.

Probably easier to hang a typewriter on a fence than a computer!

It runs slower and was easier to catch. <g>

Haha... had been delaying because the logistics were untenable.
Then Silver's guts tried to die, so I can just eject 'em, no need
to play musical motherboards.

That makes things easier when don't have to have two boxes working at
the same time. I've reused cases, though some times have found it would
have been easier to get new: one recent issue was the cables for the ATX Power Connector were squished under the HDD cage. Must have been for a smaller verions of the ATX motherboard.

Ugh... yeah, I have to be careful with the Dells in their teeny tiny
cases, cuz teeny tiny wires and absolutely no clearance. And these
aren't the teeniest model!

I don't recall having to much problem with Linux and video, though I may
have been side-stepping it because of a preference of MythTV in the past
to have liked nVidia over other options,

nVidia driver has multiple incompatible versions. Merely updating the
'wrong' version can nuke your display. (Been there, done that, had to hand-edit some stupid config file and use Puppy to copy it wherever it
went. Never, ever again complain about how the registry is so terrible.)

Addendum: Silver is now Silver II, with shiny 'new' (only 5 years
old) innards, but yet awaiting an OS. XP won't run and I'd
forgotten how annoying naked Win7 is. Linux, sadly, isn't quite
there for everyday.

XP probably needs approval from Redmond so that might be the answer to
that problem. (Wonder what will happen when I install a new virtual XP?
The current ones I think were before the end of support.)

As of last month you can still activate XP, tho for how long remains to
be seen... I have an actual for really VLK number, when I bother to use
it; no activation required. More often I just PHFFT! in Redmond's
direction. :P

As for Linux and everyday, around here seems to be fine. Do run into
issues where 'only runs under Windows' but that's similar to when the
Macs were the go-to machine for graphic design. (Bet there's a more up- to-date example, just can't come up with one based on what I do.)

Not so much that, as that I live in the file manager, and there is no
good substitute for XP's File Explorer (many are more capable, but no
others are equally reliable while being equally easy). This is actually
my #1 irritation with later Windows, and with many species of linux. And
why one of the first things I install on linux is XFE. It don't know no network, but at least works as expected on the local machine.

When I get it apart, I'll stick the PSU on the tester that reads voltage; seems to be very accurate. I don't think anything this mainboard says can be trusted at this point.

And according to the tester, the PSU is fine. However...

Seems to point to mainboard issues. Or something attached drawing more
power than should.

Ya think?

The reason the board was misbehaving was flamingly obvious once I
had all the other junk out of the way: Two blown capacitors, as
in tried to explode and have rods of boiled-off gunk sticking out
the top. (First time I've seen a PC throw a rod...) So I'd guess
those two caps just happen to be in the voltage-control circuit,
and durn good thing it decided to fade rather than spike!

Ah! Those cap's would do it! I had a NARRA5 motherboard with a few of
those. The cap's weren't quite as bad as what you described.

Pasty tasty:

So found other complaints similar to S/i/l/v/e/r/ Tarnish on the same
Asus P5B Deluxe:

===
From a repair tech: This series of boards has a cap near the south
bridge that has almost literally a 100% failure rate after years of service. ===
From a newegg review: Cons: After about a year, the USB ports all died.
In windows XP they would just constantly 'pop' with errors in windows, complaining about unknown devices, unplug errors, and the popping
windows sound would go off every 3-5 seconds. No devices worked using
the ports, had to disable them in bios. In linux, the USB ports spewed
all sorts of errors on boot, and likewise nothing could be used on USB
===

Huh. Maybe that's why Silver was always reluctant to turn loose of USB devices. Always had to eject, then re-eject via the green doohickey,
then often enough, wait and repeat. Didn't realise that could be
hardware! Cash doesn't do that, it turns loose when told, first time.

Will be interesting to see how Cash (with the Taiwan-made PCB) does once
it has the same hours on it (it probably has about 20% as much uptime).

And when the fail is that consistent and that localized... it's a design problem in the board, not inherently faulty capacitors. (There's a third
cap of the same type on the other side, and it's fine.) So... not worth repairing, methinks; it'll just do it again, and who knows what it might
cook along the way.

And the very first symptom was... I'd thought my external USB3 hub had
died. Had to replace it. So hauled it out and guess what? Nothing wrong
with it; it was apparently a bit more demanding of the ports, and was
the first to recognize that they'd gone bogus. Works fine now!! Well, I
needed another hub; that was cheap. <g> Now if I can find its power
brick... probably got repurposed.

This was where I also noted a subtle difference between these
identical <??> boards:
Good one: PCB made in Taiwan.
Bad one: PCB made in China. (And version label is pasted on
rather than silkscreened.)

Initially I'd guess the same board just made in two different factories
but the version lable thing almost indicates some other minor difference
-- addition of a component manually tacked in? Used the old motherboard supply.

Most likely some corner cutting (this is why outsourcing your flagship
product is a bad idea!), resulting in either another component that's
causing issues, or a faulty trace in the PCB.

My tester simulates draw, tho you can usually get different
readings by adding a couple fans or HDs. I was already an Enermax
bigot, and became a worse one after I used it to test all the
"tested good" PSUs and found only Enermax were 100% good ALL the
time (no spikes or sags).

Sort of because of you I've been using PSUs with higher current/wattage capabilities. If a PSU needs replacing have been increasing the specs
-- orig 300 W, replace with a 700W, for example. Sometimes can't: have

Yeah... most of the namebrand systems use the dead minimum. I have two
here (Dell and HP) that arrived "dead" and merely giving 'em a heavier
PSU performed a miracle. Nothing wrong with the old PSU, just not enough capacity to run the default system, at least not once it got a little
age on it. (My cynical little voice wishes to remind us that this is by design, because it stresses other components and fairly reliably causes
death just out of warranty.)

at least one computer where the PSU has to be the same to fit because
of the L-shape.

What? still using the Super XT?? :D

TOPower makes some oddballs even now. I've had two of their AT PSUs and they're excellent. Dunno about their others (by repute not so good, but
the AT models were fantastic.)

Would be funny if 'just' that IOMMU setting!

It would be a lot better than two exploded capacitors!!

Which probably also means other are ready to!

Or maybe not, if it's a design flaw elsewhere. Was perhaps running too
much current through those caps... would explain why it happened just to
those two, and not just to me.

Regardless... Something Went Wrong! <g>

I tend to concur!

D'oh!! ("Something Went Wrong!" is the standard Mac error
message. Very helpful, in Apple's usual way.)

Yeah: I know 'something went wrong'!

It sure did!

Plus reminded me of Dad's tube-type amplifier. We smelt something 'hot'
but couldn't figure out what it was. Music was on. I finally happened
to see something odd through the grill vents ==> was a resistor about
the diameter and length on one's little finger glowing red hot. Ended
up a capacitor failed, causing too much current through the resistor,
causing it to glow (was wirewound and IIRC 7 Watts -- think the brighter
of the two night light bulbs available), also damaged another resistor
which was 25 W ==> could see the plastic covering had melted some.

Oy!! There's a house fire in training, if you left the unit on while you
were gone... I remember seeing vacuum tubes glow hot enough to make the
glass bell sag. Don't think I miss those days of hidden fire hazards.

I'm starting to think for future builds I should go back to Intel. When
I started Linux Intel was more compatible so went with them. Then
either AMD wised up and saw they were missing out in the marketplace and
so worked with Linux. Your comments, others' comments, and a bit of
personal experience indicate Intel is still the better of the two.

I've tried to be enthusiastic about AMD, but then reality intrudes. <g>
Don't care how much cheaper AMD is, or how many gaming benchmarks AMD
tops out... they're just not worth the aggravation. And as noted, I've
seen WAY more AMD motherboards die, too. Probably 10x as often as Intel boards.

And too good to throw away... as storage on a Pi sounds good. I
wound up with a bunch of flash drives I was using as Poor Man's
external HDs.

For fun I had the Lexar 128 MB on this machine for a while -- shows up
on the Desktop as an external drive and I did use it a few times as a scratchpad device. ...Hanging it off a RPi seems a logical use, though
still a bit odd as have been using microSDs of 32 and 64 GB. Maybe SneakerNet? Will find some 'quirky' use!

Nifty gadget for old PCs: a bootable IDE device that uses SD cards. I
have one, works great. You can get 'em for CF cards too (which natively
use the floppy interface) but these are a lot faster.

Niftiest flash drive: one in the shape of a padlock from Symantec
(and it's all metal, so it's as heavy as a real lock). You push

Don't drop it on your toe! I tend to avoid the cutsie devices but that

This has already been done!

Yup! It's solidly made! <hopping around, grasping throbbing tootsie>

Yes, words were said. <g>

So went looking on eBay to see if it has any particular collector
value (didn't find any samples) but discovered this actual
combination lock flash drive:

Ah! I was thinking the 'traditional' padlock with the curved metal bar

Like mine!

Oh! They must have changed design: the link displayed one which was long
and narrow and had three or four laterally rotating number rings, and I
don't recall a metal bar latch. Yours (and my original visualization)
is like a typical lock:
--
/ \
| |
_________
| |
| |
| |
-------

Yeah, the bicycle lock type was not what I had in mind. <g> Mine was
probably made purely as a novelty; I vaguely recall the source was some security-stuff conference. But the toy arrived WAY later, via snail.

either all all selling around the same price. ...OTOH have seen where everybody is selling at (say) $45-55 and a couple of vendors selling the
same thing for several hundred dollars.

The latter are either moving dark money, or laundering money. You'll
also see those 10x-priced units "sell" every so often, then get relisted
at the same fantasy price, by the same vendor. Started on eBay about
15-18 years ago, and is now happening on Amazon too. Perfectly legal way
to move your drug money or your terrorist funding. And normal people
wonder why an old USB cable is listed for $500.

Will continue to ground-before-insert just as a good practice

If only because *I* don't like getting zapped. :)

So we have found out you're not into that cheap a thrill!! <gg>

I am no fun at an electrocution. :P

That comes as no shock! <rs!>

I prefer dynamic to static. <g>

AC? DC is more fun!

Surely you can sing better than that. <g>

I barely carry a tune in a bucket!

And my bucket leaks.

Why am I thinking "incontinence hotline - can you hold please?" joke?!

Can't hold a candle to our brains!

And as I respond up above (we are nothing if not redundant!) PSU

You can say that again!

That again!

Good night, Gracie!

Mornin', George! <g>

gets tested too, when all apart. But board was already suspect,
just had the wrong suspect in custody. <g>

"It was my evil twin, honest!"

It was! more evil than we knew.

"Look at meee!" <squirt> ("Hehe: clown's squirting flower have
nothing on me!")

Ow! it got pixels in my eye.

AMD's stock heatsinks are crap -- too small and all aluminum. AMD
CPUs get too hot for anything less than copper core, and
preferably solid copper heatsink.

OK - so they tend to save money where they should not.

That too.

I got this for the better AMD: https://www.amazon.com/Adaptec-Socket-Heat-Sink-ACC-9520/dp/B000HR
PHKE
Works absolutely wonderfully; dropped CPU temp by about 30
degrees. All copper heatsink, and the fan is nearly silent, too.

OK, thanks! I'll check to make certain fits mine (FX-8320) and order. ..PSensor, etc., the CPU temperature did seem to be too hot. And some runnings sent it over.

Ouch.

IIRC this is a AM3+ socket but should get me in the right area. As for prices, I do check multiple sourcres. :)

It should fit AM3+ -- basically the same socket as AM2 which is mine.
(In fact some CPUs swing both ways.)

This should be a good one too: https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Socket-Copper-Heatpipes-Connector/dp/B0044FHFJQ

Copper base and heat pipes, usually a good combination.

'em all tested and matched to one another, those AMD boards might depart to eBay, not like I'm short and vintage gaming boards are
all the rage lately.

If you have the storage room and the time to sell them. OTOH if it

I have the storage; I may not have the patience.

It would be interesting to see how long some of the items have been
listed on eBay.

Some sell right off, some not. Pretty chancy. Probably do better to have
a private site and let people searching for something stumble on it.

(Maybe I should start avoiding AMD -- this computer is AMD but so is the one I'm using for MythTV and it's fine.)

When they work, no worries. But I've seen too many problems.

I'll take AMDs if they fall on my head, but I won't pay money for
'em. Seen too many bugs and too many fails, and WAY too much not
near as fast as claimed once you set 'em to doing real work, not
just gamer-suckering benchmarks. (Eg. Westworld's CPU supposedly
is faster than a high-end Core2Quad. In Real Life it's about 40%
slower than a midrange Core2Duo.) And from the donor pile at
AVMUG... about half the AMD-based boards and/or CPUs were DOA.
Few of the Intel-based boards, and NONE of the Intel CPUs were
dead.

Hmmmmmm!! Seems to verify what I'm typed up there a bit! LIS (I think
-- too lazy to scroll up), it seems AMD is good but Intel is better.

AMD is intermittently good... probably when sales fall too much, then we
see the catch-me-if-you-can game, which Intel promptly beats them at.
But I've no reason to believe AMDs are any less buggy than in the past,
when they had 10x the errata that Intels did (at least, when AMD still published errata).

Quite sure there are exceptions (I still refuse to buy Celeron!) but

Some late Celerons were pretty good -- and many could be overclocked;
someone OC'd one to 5GHz! But you have to get to the era when they used
the same bus speed as the Pentium, or their performance kinda sucks.

seems like I ran into less problems with Intel-based stuff. And that statement is probably somewhat biased as I don't have any Intel-based
boards with IOMMU, or at least I know of.

Intel-based boards are, in my observation, better quality, even from the
same manufacturer and essentially the same model.

<chuckle> OTTOMH I'd say go with a video card of at least 1 GB if not
2. Less will cause video tearing, or at least does with MythTV playback
of a HD source. I have no experience with 4K videos, though "Big Buck
Bunny, Sunflower Version" at 4000x4500 seems to be OK here onthis
computer -- may be 'cut back'/throttled by the video card (2GB?) and or monitor.

I'd like a better monitor, but this Samsung hasn't died yet... tho
amazingly, it's well past its best-by date.

I've seen the oversized kind, tho... and I have one of the 3rd
party radiator doodads. Got that with a used vidcard that was DOA
(asked for and got half refund on that one, cuz I'd really wanted
the radiator) and have a notion it might be useful for something
other than vidcard.

Heating your place?! <gg>

Could do! <g>

So you going to post to Instructibles.com "How I Built My Own Mac Pro"?!

That's what this site is for <g>
https://www.tonymacx86.com/

Hmm: someone else thinks like you do?!

Apparently <g>

One of the Dells is already a Hackintosh, albeit an older
version, cuz it's whatever-I-had-ready-to-hand. Everything worked
out of the box except the NIC, but I didn't bother installing
kexts (drivers), so... soon discovered that while 8gb was okay,
it's a lot happier with 24gb. Geesh... this is a ten year old
version....

New isn't always better. I have used USB NICs temporarily -- I thnik
the last time was when trying to figure out what was wrong before
finding out the one RAM stick was bad.

Oh, I use the USB dongle wireless doodads all the time. Some, Windows
finds right off, no external driver required. Linux, not so much, tho I
gather it's gotten better.

Yes, I also try to futureproof -- have been burned a few times: need
some 5¬" floppies? As far as the thumbdrive capacity, it seems 16 GB is

Whoops! No thanks, I still have plenty!

<chuckle> So I suppose you don't need any 3«'s either!

Sadly, no. Would you like some 720k crispies??

more than enough for what I do. Of course I'm not running a business.

I liked how Techhole (youtube) described what he was doing so
well that I pilfered it for my Borg listing:
"I'm not a production environment, I'm a basement."

Not distracted by the corporate cubicles!

This is true!

Kinda irritating when you know it SHOULD work...

Uh-huh! And worked the other day before the reboot! I half-think
there are a few things where faster isn't better: the faster speed
doesn't allow time for a function to load if another function takes a split-second longer than normal. Maybe the HDD needed an extra rotation because something else was being checked while trying to load this other parameter..... <shrug>

Probably not that, but some instruction that the CPU didn't finish in
time. Something in the back of my head is muttering "pipelining bug".

One of the reasons why most of the computers are on UPS (a couple of the RPi's are not) as is some lighting, plus a few of the plug-in battery- powered emergency lights: it gets dark when the power goes out at night!

How'd that happen? <g>

.. And as the cream sauce said to the asparagus -- Happy Hollandaise!

<fondly> That's my tagline! <g>

Spread the words! :)

Where's the butter knife??

Unless it's frozen solid I find a metal one works better!

This is true :D

Have you seen that guy on Youtube who makes knives from weird stuff,
like jello or toilet paper?

.. Bad love lines: You set my heart aflame - you give me heartburn.

Definitely something lost in translation. <g>

A while back I was doing an English to either German or Hungarian letter
to go with a card. The original English was right but the 'retranslate' (check German/Hungarian back to English) and rather than something like
"it's hot here" the machine translate said something like "he was
roasted in the oven"!!

Either an understatement, or an exaggeration <g>
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Hi Folks!

Have been having sort of a vaguely defined issue with USB devices on my computer. Sometimes, so yes, not consistent, plugging anything into
either the USB 2 or USB 3 front panel ports will cause the system to lock/freeze. Oddly thumbdrives (USB sticks) are 95% of the time fine
while plugging in a USB DVD device will but not always cause a lock up.

Last night was copying some files to thumbdrives (4 GB, USB 2.0),
inserting them to a powered USB 3.0 hub. Started off fine, then the Hub
or rear panel port froze; reboot to clear. OK for a while, then 'loss'
of the thumbdrive, sometimes other devices on the hub were seen (lsusb).
Later looking around found sometimes the USB camera was detected by
Cheese, sometimes not, sometimes the picture was freeze-framed. Yes,
lots of inconsistencies.

Tried swapping out the Hub for another USB 3.0 powered one; same inconsistencies, so appears the Hub is OK but maybe not the port.

This morning tried something: powered off the Virtual XP portion -- it
detects the devices attached to the Hub (and also those attached
elsewhere); all not captured. Copied six thumbdrives without a problem.

Suppose you want some of the specs: Ubuntu 18.04, Oracle's VM
VirtualBox....

TIA!




¯ ®
¯ Barry_Martin_3@ ®
¯ @Q.COM ®
¯ ®


... Nice suit. Too bad they didn't have it in your size.
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