BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

> KM> These durn two-legged stools....
> I wonder if that's why it was so cheap?!
KM> 30% off!!

If a three-legged stool closer to one-third!

I left a stump, in case it falls over. :)

> KM> This could be... which reminds me, ExplainingComputers has
> KM> another RPi video today. He's a very pleasant chap and has a way
> KM> of making stuff easily understood.
> I'll take a look some time. One thing I hope he explains and reminds
> frequently is with the RPI 4 to use the HDMI port nearest the power
> connector -- the other port won't give sound if the first one is empty.
> I'm not the first one to have had that simple problem.
KM> Leave him a comment about it!
Probably would do more 'as appropriate' as opposed to out of the blue.

He reads 'em all, so...

..I'll have to find out why there are two HDMI ports. Handy for some
usages, but multiple monitors doesn't seem to be super-popular even with 'regular'home use. Not uncommon, just doesn't seem to be common.

No idea, other than I suppose one use for these things is as a splitter
for security monitors.

> KM> Sound policy!
> alsa or Pulseaudio?!
KM> Whichever one doesn't crash!
Ummm, both do with the cymbals sounds. ...Yeah: weak joke.

My Windows exit sound used to be breaking glass... WAV file came with WordPerfect6 for DOS!

> AFAIK nothing was using the USB port at the time the backup was being
> made via Ethernet. (The original way when the CPU overheated.) USB
> devices were connected just because they were connected during the day
> but were not in active use.
KM> No, I mean does the network chip also send data through the
KM> southbridge? I'd guess it does, and that heated up the chip, and
KM> the system.
Oh. My guess is yes, though reading about Southbridge so do USB stuff.
LIS my guess is the regular backup was using a lot more CPU cycles
because creating a condensed file with numerous files zipped into the
one storage file, whereas the USB backup was a simply copy: just move
the data, not work on it too.

Moving data being that chip's job, that seems to be what heats it up -- guessing it's a per-request thing rather than purely size. ZIP might
have been hard work in the olden daze, not so much for modern PCs.

Your turn to check! I'm sort of chuckling to myself on this end as I remebber the manual and I think even the promotional literature for my original computer, the DEC Rainbow 100, specifically stated which
function was done by what CPU: video and memory by the first, floppy
drives by the second, that type of thing. Very out inthe open. Now we
have to dig down into hard-to-find manuals.

Woah, that's specific!!

KM> Nice when the holes are convenient! you'd think it'd be a
KM> Generally Good Idea if only for better venting under the CPU, but
KM> it's far from universal.

Yes, though I took the lack of access as more for RFI shielding. (It
doesn't have to be anywhere near right for it to make sense to me
sometimes!)

I don't like these plexiglas cases exactly for that reason -- lack of shielding. Of mine only Silver's has plexi panels, and some year they'll
get broken and I'll find some sheet tin to rivet into the spots. Really
good case otherwise, but lordy, gamers and their desire to show off
their guts...

KM> In my observation, more fins too close is better than too few
KM> fins far apart. Tho I don't know what's optimal; surely some
KM> engineer has done the math.
And some green-visored bookkeeper has done the math and taken away the efficiency for having more profit!

Likely so... more fins uses more metal and costs more!

[PIs]

Hey! My "could be the truth/sounds good to me" finally gets a little validation! <g> Quite sure there are other small/tiny board computers
out there which are more efficient for some of the jobs I'm having the
RPi do, as you indicated, Sometimes being more familiar with one
brand/style is more efficient. The very inexpensive Raspberry Zero
would probably be a better choice for a few projects around here, just
means potentially more cases, power supplies, etc., to stock.

Yeah, there's something to be said for settling on a standard and
sticking to it... like, not having to relearn from scratch!

> KM> Oh, for that you just need two poles and a rope (mechanical
> KM> winch). <g>
> I don't think I know any Polish people!
KM> Well then, you'll just have to stay in that hole!

"Lassie! Get Pa!"

Pa! what are you doing in this hole??

> Why? Carbon monoxide doesn't smell! <gg> If the generator was placed in
KM> Supposedly not, but actually it does have a sort of dirty-damp
KM> scent. (Then again, I'm somewhere waaaaaaay over beyond
KM> Supertaster, which is also Supersmeller...)

Makes sense. Could be most people are unable to sense CO or you react
to the CO and get that musty smell reaction. There have been times

Yeah, so long as I'm alerted, I don't care why! Kept smelling something
I didn't like... discovered a rotted-out flue under the house... well,
that explains it! (Replaced along with the furnace that died last winter.)

(rare) when I went sniffing as "something wasn't right". The CO
Detector didn't trigger, but then it's one of those ones without the
level display -- I'm going back to that type when this one expires.

Level display does sound better.

> KM> I must have a dozen, if not more. But I don't bother removing
> KM> them, and PCLOS, being a rolling release, gets updates more or
> KM> less continuously.
> That might be part of the reason why you have so many.
KM> Likely so! new one a couple days ago. Along with updating just
KM> about everything else.
All new! All improved! Now back to the drawing board to fix those
problems the fix of the old problems created!!

And that's how it went. Something in the installs from this year is
messing up kioslave, whatever that is, so can't do disk anything. My old install does not have the problem even after updates. (Keeping fingers,
toes, eyes, and wires crossed...)

KM> Actually, am having trouble finding something that agrees to
KM> install on Fireball; Windows everything whines about the BIOS not
KM> being compliant (it was a Win7 workstation, you ninny!) tho PCLOS
KM> runs just fine...

Not sure if this is of any help: https://www.linux.org/threads/i-cant-install-linux.12399/

Nope... I can install linux on it. I can install Win10 on it.
(Apparently the board has an embedded license, as W10 auto-activated
itself.) I can run a 'portable' Win7 on it, but Win7 will not install.
Given its intended job as fileserver (cuz native SAS ports) I'd really
rather have XP64 on it, but may not be in the cards.

Speaking of disk support... I'm wondering how I partitioned the NVMe on
a Win7 setup when Win7 does not natively support NVMe, and the hotfix to support it has been killed off. BUT! I found a patch and driver that
work on XP64. Tada!

http://doomgold.com/pcstuff/NVMe.rar

More for Linux installation issues because of motherboard manufacturer
issues but could give a clue to get around the Microsoft installation problem.

Nope, doesn't seem to apply. And my response to "linux won't install"
has always been to throw out that distro and find another one. <g>

KM> So you were good whether you wanted to be or not. <puts away
whip>

<whew!> I odn't know how much food training I would have done should
she have been of proper weight: treats are expensive, not something I'd
carry around just for fun, and to me positive re-inforcement sometimes

Oh, it's been all the rage for some time. And now we have a generation
of ill-mannered brats that we never had before. Cuz gods forbid that you
ever make Poopsie FEEL bad. (Negative reinforcement is rather more
important than positive, but try telling the feelgood crowd that.)

needs to be done on-the-fly and a "you did good" voicing and neck rub
sort of thing might be all that's available. Sort of thinking simply
going for a walk, no real need to bring along treats (sort of defeating

Yeah, there's the thing... a treat is a bribe. If there's something else
more interesting, or the bribe is not to be had, the response is likely
to be "screw you". Also, in nature the underling gives the treat to the
boss, who then may decide to graciously share -- so treat-based training confuses good dogs, and with outlaws just reinforces their notion that
they're the boss. Main reason it 'works' with today's robotic obedience
and agility dogs is because they're kept a bit starved, so will do anything-for-food.

the purpose!), going to cross the street and the dog sits in front of my path, preventing me from being squished by a car.

Well, you'd hope <g>

KM> (Similarly, repeat breedings in dogs are never the same quality,
KM> and sometimes very different... well, here's an explanation.
I'm in computer mode: thinking analog vs. digital duplication!

LOL, if only!!

KM> There may actually be truth in the old contention that a
KM> crossbreeding forever ruins the dam.) May also affect the male's
KM> future offspring, depending on the degree of exposure to the
KM> female's immune factors (dogs get a lot via the 'tie') and which
KM> sperm get advantaged or disadvantaged by it.

Makes sense: the coupling activity is not just one direction. I would
assume the reasoning behind the slight changes is to maintain a
diversity in the line (not sure if 'lineage' is correct): Darwin type
stuff: this option is good in this enviro ment but not so good in a
slight variance, so excat duplication in offspring isn't a good idea.

Actually the other way around. "Diversity" is probably the most abused
concept in all of biology. When wild animals were actually DNA-profiled, turned out they were far more genetically homogeneous than domestic
animals -- on average the wild types were 25% inbred, while dogs,
perhaps the most inbred of all domestic species, average somewhere in
the 3 to 8% range. (D'ya really think that buck CARES that half those
does are his daughters and/or half-sisters??)

How you can not know this just from looking... in a herd of 100 wild
deer, you'll be hard pressed to pick one out, because they all look
exactly alike. But 100 dogs, even of the same breed, will look like 100 different dogs. Fact is domestic breeding preserves tons of genes that
in nature would be Darwined away.

And yeah, wild species often have coping issues if conditions change, or
if a new disease comes through. Deer are a great example of this, what
with the mass die-offs that happen when they get too overpopulated.
Ditto rabbits.

> KM> Lego PCs :)
> Maybe the next one I'll call 'Eggo'! (Le'go my Eggo. ...Wrong one!)
KM> Hahaha -- that ad always makes me wonder about the relationship
KM> between waffles and Legos :D
Waffles generally don't have the outies so don't stack securely.

Ah, that explains why the Waffle House fell down! <g>

> KM> Our usual method being to just Make S#1t up. :D
> As long as it sounds plausible! We just need to post to a website to
> make it valid!
KM> Is that how it works? I shall proceed to post everything I wish
KM> to be true. Ky is a billionaire. Ky was just appointed dictator
KM> for life. <g>

We're assuming 'billionaire' was referring to a currency and not
ownership of a billion grass clippings!

Oh, that I already have... and five lawn mowers in various stages of
worn out. <g>

Did you know there are whole communities of folks who collect lawn
mowers? :)

And if you're a benevolent dictator might not be all that bad.

I often say, "When I become dictator" just before espousing some
excellent policy. <g>

KM> Yeah, for another $25 I'd get the extra 4GB, assuming all else
KM> equal. But I do like the idea of all those in the same generation
KM> being cross-compatible -- simplifies rolling out a bunch of
And so far an inexpensive kit seems to be cheaper and easier than
buying the wallwart power supply, sub-HDMI to HDMI cable, the case --
seems like another item or two but essentially those little necessary
parts.

WAAAAY too many parts. <g>

> KM> Something Went Wrong!! :O
> That sounds like a Windows error message!
KM> Actually, that's the official MacOS error message!!

=======================
= Whoops! =
= We made a boo-boo! =
=======================

Oh, we KNOW that's not an Apple error.. they would never admit that "We"
made a boo-boo!!

KM> <wonders why there's a truckload of treasure, er, I mean old PC
KM> parts sitting in my driveway>
So am I as I haven't looked for 'em yet! <g>

Haha... I don't know what 'treasures' I need, but I'm sure there must be
some. <g>

> Ha-ha - yes! Some times it's I know it's around here some place -- was
> in a blue box.....
KM> At least you color-coded your junk before you lost it! <g>

Pretty good for a guy who's somewhat colour-blind! Have switched most
of my storage to Banker's Boxes ==> more consistent size easier to stack
and store. Some will have boxes with the box, so looking for that blue
box still is a clue. Have been labelling in a temporary/permanent
manner: half a sheet of 8«"x11" paper, fold in half the long way and rip that in half, fold the piece in half and use a thicker felt tip pen to
make a general list: "audio cables", though video cables are separated
by VGA as got a ton and a small box (not a Banker's Box - yet!) for HDMI
and DVI, plus the HDMI couplers. Detailing of the contents depends how assorted the contents is.

I need to do something like that, instead of "overflowing boxes sitting
in the middle of the floor, apparently full of very thin snakes during
mating season".

As for my laser printer I am on my second set (first set was the initial starter set). I've got another 1,000 pages to go before considering
buying replacement magenta -- other two have about 1500+ pages and the
black guessing 3,000.

I have a color laser I picked up cheap (with extra carts) but haven't
got around to setting it up... ended up less motivated than I expected. Wireless so main thing is finding an outlet... scarce in this house.

As for your HP driver, not a good attitude on their part and could cost
them sales.

Oh yeah, did not make me happy at all. But they still have 35 year old
HPLJ2 drivers on their site, probably cuz lawyers use 'em, and lawyers
can create much more grief... I did not remind whoever I was arguing
with. But that nice wide-carriage printer will not be useful, instead
will someday be deemed clutter and go into the trash, and if I ever need another, will buy some other brand. (It was free, but still.)

> And I've kept other older stuff just because of having older computers:
> why get rid of a daughtercard or whatever just to end up maybe needing
> it later?
KM> THIS!!! no matter what you deem too outdated to keep and
KM> therefore throw away, THAT will be the next weird thing you need
KM> and can't find!!!
Yup! Years ago I repaired a pole lamp for one of the kids using a
plastic part leftover from a toilet repair kit (!).

Congrats, here's your Proper Midwesterner Badge <g>

Heatsink sounds like a very good idea, along with maybe a strip of
asbestos insulation if flush against the motherboard. (Asbestos?! Yeah
- from the odds and ends box we've been fill with "throw that junk out!" stuff for years!!)

Haha, yeah... junk you can't buy anymore gets suddenly valuable!

> Hadn't head about Gnome and the swipe thing -- we have to get touch
> screens now or right_click and move? (semi-joke). Might be in 20.04,
> I'm at 18.04.
KM> Oh, I mean the way the desktop operates, where you don't have
KM> static icons, you have a display that you crank back and forth.
KM> Drives me to drink.
Oh, that! yes, I've occasionally done something to scroll my display to another window. I think it's Settings > Display > number of windows. Obviously I haven't changed it! ...Took a quick look, that's not right. Maybe I was thinking the Raspberry Pi.

Not desktops; how the icons are displayed. Drives me mad.

I think there are supposed to be four desktops, even if I never use 3 of
'em. I like the OpenBox names for 'em: Air, Earth, Fire, and Water. <g>

> But Microsoft _never_ steals nor does underhanded things like that!
KM> Well, technically you can't 'steal' opensource... I don't think
KM> it would be a good move, tho, and not only because having
KM> alternative ecosystems is generally a good thing. Switching their
KM> codebase to linux is what basically killed Novell -- they went
KM> from having an utterly unique product to being just another Linux
KM> also-ran, which sealed the company's fate.

Yup: would seem like using open source code (Free BSD?) would make what
makes Windows unique just another version.

Yeah... of course MacOS is really mangled BSD, but Apple users generally
have too few clues to know that. And BSD doesn't require 'giving back'
altered source code (being rather more truly free than the GPL), so
Apple can hide what they're doing. Linux base, tho, would require source
be made available, since the M/a/r/x/i/s/t/ GPL license requires that.

KM> Oh, going down ain't so fun either... mower wants to run away
KM> from me! But yeah, sideways part, the mower has to be full of gas
KM> or it stalls out.
Mow with the tank on the other side!

Actually I do have to do that!

> > .. If say "I always lie", am I lying?
> KM> Yes. No. <g>
> True!
KM> False!
Um, "X"?

Marks the spot.
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Hi Ky!

> KM> These durn two-legged stools....
> I wonder if that's why it was so cheap?!
KM> 30% off!!
If a three-legged stool closer to one-third!

I left a stump, in case it falls over. :)

That should supply some stability! ...Just might not be too convenient
to lug around.

> KM> This could be... which reminds me, ExplainingComputers has
> KM> another RPi video today. He's a very pleasant chap and has a way
> KM> of making stuff easily understood.
> I'll take a look some time. One thing I hope he explains and reminds
> frequently is with the RPI 4 to use the HDMI port nearest the power
> connector -- the other port won't give sound if the first one is empty.
> I'm not the first one to have had that simple problem.
KM> Leave him a comment about it!
Probably would do more 'as appropriate' as opposed to out of the blue.

He reads 'em all, so...

OK. Right now a bigger project shoved its way to the front of the line:
the new router with the fiber optic ISP changed the LAN to a different
IP address set. Changing over (most of) the computers is no big deal;
on the one I record the TV shows on the database is still being told to
look at the old IP. Was given some tests over the weekend, did find the (hopefully not 'a') value that's reporting the old value, so hopefully
get an answer this morning on how to fix. (Not sure if I found a bug or
just something not set up right here originally.)

..I'll have to find out why there are two HDMI ports. Handy for some usages, but multiple monitors doesn't seem to be super-popular even with 'regular'home use. Not uncommon, just doesn't seem to be common.

No idea, other than I suppose one use for these things is as a
splitter for security monitors.

Right. Generally cheaper to buy two regular monitors than one
super-wide monitor.

> KM> Sound policy!
> alsa or Pulseaudio?!
KM> Whichever one doesn't crash!
Ummm, both do with the cymbals sounds. ...Yeah: weak joke.

My Windows exit sound used to be breaking glass... WAV file came
with WordPerfect6 for DOS!

That would be a better BSOD alert! <g>

> AFAIK nothing was using the USB port at the time the backup was being
> made via Ethernet. (The original way when the CPU overheated.) USB
> devices were connected just because they were connected during the day
> but were not in active use.
KM> No, I mean does the network chip also send data through the
KM> southbridge? I'd guess it does, and that heated up the chip, and
KM> the system.
Oh. My guess is yes, though reading about Southbridge so do USB stuff.
LIS my guess is the regular backup was using a lot more CPU cycles
because creating a condensed file with numerous files zipped into the
one storage file, whereas the USB backup was a simply copy: just move
the data, not work on it too.

Moving data being that chip's job, that seems to be what heats it
up -- guessing it's a per-request thing rather than purely size.
ZIP might have been hard work in the olden daze, not so much for
modern PCs.

Right on both; I don't really keep up with the details as don't need to
delve into the Black Box that far, so general concepts and terminology
used. Sometimes the old words no longer apply or don't fit quite right.
I'll try to catch up!

Your turn to check! I'm sort of chuckling to myself on this end as I remember the manual and I think even the promotional literature for my original computer, the DEC Rainbow 100, specifically stated which
function was done by what CPU: video and memory by the first, floppy
drives by the second, that type of thing. Very out in the open. Now we have to dig down into hard-to-find manuals.

Woah, that's specific!!

It was!! I think maybe they (DEC) put it out there in the open to
emphasize the two CPUs: "the DEC Rainbow 100 has two CPUs for faster processing" vs. "the DEC Rainbow 100 has two processors. The Z80
controls <functions> while the 8088 does <other functions>." Same information, and I'm not sure how much the user cares which processor
does what as long as it's faster.

KM> Nice when the holes are convenient! you'd think it'd be a
KM> Generally Good Idea if only for better venting under the CPU, but
KM> it's far from universal.
Yes, though I took the lack of access as more for RFI shielding. (It doesn't have to be anywhere near right for it to make sense to me sometimes!)

I don't like these plexiglas cases exactly for that reason --
lack of shielding. Of mine only Silver's has plexi panels, and
some year they'll get broken and I'll find some sheet tin to
rivet into the spots. Really good case otherwise, but lordy,
gamers and their desire to show off their guts...

<chuckle> Look! The fans are spinning really-really fast! I've got
one, maybe two cases with a see-through panel. (Obviously that's how impressed I am with the option!) Remember when buying the one case
liking everything about the case except that see-through panel. Kept
looking, if I liked the case not enough slots or something else; enough
slots and case was ugly or expensive. Finally got the case with the
clear panel. With one placement the open side was against the side of
the desk so didn't show other than a red glow (side panel also had a fan
with red LEDs - fortunately just static). Another build later and the
case was in my old computer stand, again with the clear panel obscured
by the cabinet side panel.

KM> In my observation, more fins too close is better than too few
KM> fins far apart. Tho I don't know what's optimal; surely some
KM> engineer has done the math.
And some green-visored bookkeeper has done the math and taken away the efficiency for having more profit!

Likely so... more fins uses more metal and costs more!

"We want profit!" "We want something that works at a reasonable price!"

[PIs]

Hey! My "could be the truth/sounds good to me" finally gets a little validation! <g> Quite sure there are other small/tiny board computers
out there which are more efficient for some of the jobs I'm having the
RPi do, as you indicated, Sometimes being more familiar with one brand/style is more efficient. The very inexpensive Raspberry Zero
would probably be a better choice for a few projects around here, just
means potentially more cases, power supplies, etc., to stock.

Yeah, there's something to be said for settling on a standard and
sticking to it... like, not having to relearn from scratch!

To me that has advantages! You do some sort of IT work, so pays to be familiar with various OSs. Me, I'm just doing it as a hobby and "less
is more". (Though I counted six live computers just up here!)

> Why? Carbon monoxide doesn't smell! <gg> If the generator was placed in
KM> Supposedly not, but actually it does have a sort of dirty-damp
KM> scent. (Then again, I'm somewhere waaaaaaay over beyond
KM> Supertaster, which is also Supersmeller...)
Makes sense. Could be most people are unable to sense CO or you react
to the CO and get that musty smell reaction. There have been times

Yeah, so long as I'm alerted, I don't care why! Kept smelling
something I didn't like... discovered a rotted-out flue under the
house... well, that explains it! (Replaced along with the furnace
that died last winter.)

That perforated flue could have turned you blue! (CO effect.) I sort
of start to 'freak out' at the beginning of the heating season when the
dust is burning off inside the furnace: something's burning! (OK,
smoldering, getting hot.) Not right! Need to find the problem before
it gets worse! ...OK, not to that degree but enough I got into a bit of
an alert state even though I know it's only the furnace.

(rare) when I went sniffing as "something wasn't right". The CO
Detector didn't trigger, but then it's one of those ones without the
level display -- I'm going back to that type when this one expires.

Level display does sound better.

Yes, just like the older cars had gauges on the dash. I may not know
what they do or mean but that 'oil' one has been pointing low of where
it usually is - better get checked. (Topped off with half a quart.)
Now: tum-de-dum -- oh! The oil can is lit up! Down three quarts!

> KM> I must have a dozen, if not more. But I don't bother removing
> KM> them, and PCLOS, being a rolling release, gets updates more or
> KM> less continuously.
> That might be part of the reason why you have so many.
KM> Likely so! new one a couple days ago. Along with updating just
KM> about everything else.
All new! All improved! Now back to the drawing board to fix those
problems the fix of the old problems created!!

And that's how it went. Something in the installs from this year
is messing up kioslave, whatever that is, so can't do disk
anything. My old install does not have the problem even after
updates. (Keeping fingers, toes, eyes, and wires crossed...)

Kioslave -- sounds like something not politically correct or a new
medication one shoudl ask their doctor about just because the
advertisement said to! I'd sort of guess with the 'io' in there might
have something to do with an input-output, especially as you said "can't
do disk anything".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KIO

KIO (KDE Input/Output) is a system library incorporated into KDE
Frameworks 5 and KDE Software Compilation 4. It provides access to
files, web sites and other resources through a single consistent API.
Applications, such as Konqueror and Dolphin, which are written using
this framework, can operate on files stored on remote servers in
exactly the same way as they operate on those stored locally,
effectively making KDE network-transparent. This allows for an
application like Konqueror to be both a file manager as well as a web
browser.

KIO slaves are libraries that provide support for individual protocols
(e.g. HTTP, FTP, SMB, SSH, FISH, SFTP, SVN, TAR).

The KDE manual app KHelpCenter has a KIOSlaves section that lists the
available protocols with a short description of each.

Huh: must be using a Pentium to split-process this portion:

Stable release 5.71.0 (June 13, 2020; 3 days ago)

It's June 22 as I write this!

KM> Actually, am having trouble finding something that agrees to
KM> install on Fireball; Windows everything whines about the BIOS not
KM> being compliant (it was a Win7 workstation, you ninny!) tho PCLOS
KM> runs just fine...
Not sure if this is of any help: https://www.linux.org/threads/i-cant-install-linux.12399/

Nope... I can install linux on it. I can install Win10 on it.
(Apparently the board has an embedded license, as W10
auto-activated itself.) I can run a 'portable' Win7 on it, but
Win7 will not install. Given its intended job as fileserver (cuz
native SAS ports) I'd really rather have XP64 on it, but may not
be in the cards.

Ahhhh!! I have an old DVD that does something similar: will only run on
a specific version of Windows (came bundled with something we sold at
the store). I did get it to work once altering some parameter, or maybe
a form of virtual machine - LIS been years.

Speaking of disk support... I'm wondering how I partitioned the
NVMe on a Win7 setup when Win7 does not natively support NVMe,
and the hotfix to support it has been killed off. BUT! I found a
patch and driver that work on XP64. Tada! http://doomgold.com/pcstuff/NVMe.rar

Got it - thanks! And congratulations of sorts ;) : you're the first
file I downloaded since getting fiber optic. Click, done - really?!

More for Linux installation issues because of motherboard manufacturer issues but could give a clue to get around the Microsoft installation problem.

Nope, doesn't seem to apply. And my response to "linux won't
install" has always been to throw out that distro and find
another one. <g>

That can work! I done something similar with utilities: too complicated
to get to install, probably too much work to get to work or work with.

KM> So you were good whether you wanted to be or not. <puts away
whip>
<whew!> I odn't know how much food training I would have done should
she have been of proper weight: treats are expensive, not something I'd carry around just for fun, and to me positive re-inforcement sometimes

Oh, it's been all the rage for some time. And now we have a
generation of ill-mannered brats that we never had before. Cuz
gods forbid that you ever make Poopsie FEEL bad. (Negative
reinforcement is rather more important than positive, but try
telling the feelgood crowd that.)

I'm probably going to step on a few toes on the various sides of the
topic but here goes. I'm also going to be viewing more from the casual cityified dog owner. It seems most people want a buddy out of their pet
dog and "to love me I have to give you freedom to do anything and lavish
you with gifts [treats]". That usually ends up with the owner getting
walked all over and the dog is more the owner of the human.

With Honey, my Lhasa Apso, unknown adoption history so some retraining,
plus her getting accustomed to a new and apparently less menacing
environment. At the time the back yard wasn't fully fenced; didn't want
her wandering in to the neighbour's back yard. There were some shrubs
along the line so used them as a visual cue of which side to stay on.
Walked her around the yard on leash, started with the fenced side which
also has some shrubs and plants; she started to wander too close to the
fence would tighten the leash slightly and I'd say "this side!" -- maybe
a 'come here' type command at first too. Verbal praise, maybe a petting;
didn't have any treats on me so no munchies. She did learn to stay with
me, not wander.

needs to be done on-the-fly and a "you did good" voicing and neck rub
sort of thing might be all that's available. Sort of thinking simply
going for a walk, no real need to bring along treats (sort of defeating

Yeah, there's the thing... a treat is a bribe. If there's
something else more interesting, or the bribe is not to be had,
the response is likely to be "screw you".

"I'm not hungry" or "my stomach's upset" and the food treat is not
wanted and so meaningless. Verbal praise and petting is usually
desireable any time.

Also, in nature the
underling gives the treat to the boss, who then may decide to
graciously share -- so treat-based training confuses good dogs,
and with outlaws just reinforces their notion that they're the
boss. Main reason it 'works' with today's robotic obedience and
agility dogs is because they're kept a bit starved, so will do anything-for-food.

Hmmm! so sort of push-the-button-for-food. I may have trained Honey the
right way sort of accidentally but seemed to make more sense. Her treat
was praise, which hopefully made her feel good.

the purpose!), going to cross the street and the dog sits in front of my path, preventing me from being squished by a car.

Well, you'd hope <g>

<laff> Was sitting in the side yard yesterday morning because the power
was out and so can't do anything inside and the fans not circulation air
was getting a little stuffy. Maybe out there 45 minutes, an hour. Not
one car! Only saw the power company's truck slow down to check the pole transformer in all that time. Did see a 'people': guy walking his dog.
Two jets.

KM> (Similarly, repeat breedings in dogs are never the same quality,
KM> and sometimes very different... well, here's an explanation.
I'm in computer mode: thinking analog vs. digital duplication!

LOL, if only!!

That could be the premise for a science-fiction book! ...One of the
female cashiers at the store would read romance novels on break -- could
sort of see a Fabio-type cover with a bit of robot revealed. Soft-
graphic "John!" "Marsha!" segments alternating between the analog and
digital coupling - and now the monster coming out of the stomach (like
in Alien?? -- not sure if the right movie). ...Must have had a couple of fermented grapes with breakfast -- sheesh!!

KM> There may actually be truth in the old contention that a
KM> crossbreeding forever ruins the dam.) May also affect the male's
KM> future offspring, depending on the degree of exposure to the
KM> female's immune factors (dogs get a lot via the 'tie') and which
KM> sperm get advantaged or disadvantaged by it.
Makes sense: the coupling activity is not just one direction. I would assume the reasoning behind the slight changes is to maintain a
diversity in the line (not sure if 'lineage' is correct): Darwin type
stuff: this option is good in this enviro ment but not so good in a
slight variance, so excat duplication in offspring isn't a good idea.

Actually the other way around. "Diversity" is probably the most
abused concept in all of biology. When wild animals were actually DNA-profiled, turned out they were far more genetically
homogeneous than domestic animals -- on average the wild types
were 25% inbred, while dogs, perhaps the most inbred of all
domestic species, average somewhere in the 3 to 8% range. (D'ya
really think that buck CARES that half those does are his
daughters and/or half-sisters??)

Keep the best options going! ...The buck just wants to ...umm!

How you can not know this just from looking... in a herd of 100
wild deer, you'll be hard pressed to pick one out, because they
all look exactly alike. But 100 dogs, even of the same breed,
will look like 100 different dogs. Fact is domestic breeding
preserves tons of genes that in nature would be Darwined away.

Dogs specifically bred to enhance some feature beneficial to humans but
not necessarily to nature in general.

And yeah, wild species often have coping issues if conditions
change, or if a new disease comes through. Deer are a great
example of this, what with the mass die-offs that happen when
they get too overpopulated. Ditto rabbits.

Yup: we have a fairly major deer population in this area: every so often
used to see deer trotting down the street in front of the house -- and
this is an established residential neighbourhood. Seem to have been
chased out or their access blocked since they started with the
construction of the new I-74 Bridge seveal years ago.

Scott County Park allows bow and arrow deer hunting during a specific
time of year to trim the herd. A few other areas on both sides of the
River do similar.

> KM> Lego PCs :)
> Maybe the next one I'll call 'Eggo'! (Le'go my Eggo. ...Wrong one!)
KM> Hahaha -- that ad always makes me wonder about the relationship
KM> between waffles and Legos :D
Waffles generally don't have the outies so don't stack securely.

Ah, that explains why the Waffle House fell down! <g>

<smacking forehead>

> KM> Our usual method being to just Make S#1t up. :D
> As long as it sounds plausible! We just need to post to a website to
> make it valid!
KM> Is that how it works? I shall proceed to post everything I wish
KM> to be true. Ky is a billionaire. Ky was just appointed dictator
KM> for life. <g>
We're assuming 'billionaire' was referring to a currency and not
ownership of a billion grass clippings!

Oh, that I already have... and five lawn mowers in various stages
of worn out. <g>

Hey look! This one has the blade worn out!

Did you know there are whole communities of folks who collect
lawn mowers? :)

Why do I feel like I'm being set up for a really weird joke?! Let's
see.... Frisbyterians, souls to the roof...

And if you're a benevolent dictator might not be all that bad.

I often say, "When I become dictator" just before espousing some
excellent policy. <g>

"Excellent policy" to who's benefit?!

KM> Yeah, for another $25 I'd get the extra 4GB, assuming all else
KM> equal. But I do like the idea of all those in the same generation
KM> being cross-compatible -- simplifies rolling out a bunch of
And so far an inexpensive kit seems to be cheaper and easier than
buying the wallwart power supply, sub-HDMI to HDMI cable, the case --
seems like another item or two but essentially those little necessary
parts.

WAAAAY too many parts. <g>

Well, we don't _need_ the case, though I sort of used it as a heat sink
and heat radiator.

> KM> Something Went Wrong!! :O
> That sounds like a Windows error message!
KM> Actually, that's the official MacOS error message!!

=======================
= Whoops! =
= We made a boo-boo! =
=======================

Oh, we KNOW that's not an Apple error.. they would never admit
that "We" made a boo-boo!!

So go windows: the icon says "My Computer", so not yours!

KM> <wonders why there's a truckload of treasure, er, I mean old PC
KM> parts sitting in my driveway>
So am I as I haven't looked for 'em yet! <g>

Haha... I don't know what 'treasures' I need, but I'm sure there
must be some. <g>

Oh, maybe a clue to the lawn mower thing up there: there's some island
culture using huge rings of rock as currency ('treasure'), so maybe the
lawn mowers are being used as currency! ...This is worth 1 lawn mower,
this is worth one mow job....

> Ha-ha - yes! Some times it's I know it's around here some place -- was
> in a blue box.....
KM> At least you color-coded your junk before you lost it! <g>
Pretty good for a guy who's somewhat colour-blind! Have switched most
of my storage to Banker's Boxes ==> more consistent size easier to stack
and store. Some will have boxes with the box, so looking for that blue
box still is a clue. Have been labelling in a temporary/permanent
manner: half a sheet of 8«"x11" paper, fold in half the long way and rip that in half, fold the piece in half and use a thicker felt tip pen to
make a general list: "audio cables", though video cables are separated
by VGA as got a ton and a small box (not a Banker's Box - yet!) for HDMI
and DVI, plus the HDMI couplers. Detailing of the contents depends how assorted the contents is.

I need to do something like that, instead of "overflowing boxes
sitting in the middle of the floor, apparently full of very thin
snakes during mating season".

<chuckle> Yeah, had that here! Loosely coil the cables, secure with twist-ties or appropriate lengths of scrap wire. I sometimes use two if
the coil is poofing out at the unsecured side. (The scrap wire is solid
core, left over from various electronics projects or snipped from
spools. Electrical wire is too thick.)

As for my laser printer I am on my second set (first set was the initial starter set). I've got another 1,000 pages to go before considering
buying replacement magenta -- other two have about 1500+ pages and the
black guessing 3,000.

I have a color laser I picked up cheap (with extra carts) but
haven't got around to setting it up... ended up less motivated
than I expected. Wireless so main thing is finding an outlet...
scarce in this house.

That's a problem with older houses: back when they were built not as
much electrical stuff so less need for outlets. Electrician I knew when
I was working at the college updated his place with quad instead of
duplex outlets, so a cluster of four instead of the usual two outlets
per 'wall outlet'.

As for your HP driver, not a good attitude on their part and could cost
them sales.

Oh yeah, did not make me happy at all. But they still have 35
year old HPLJ2 drivers on their site, probably cuz lawyers use
'em, and lawyers can create much more grief... I did not remind
whoever I was arguing with. But that nice wide-carriage printer
will not be useful, instead will someday be deemed clutter and go
into the trash, and if I ever need another, will buy some other
brand. (It was free, but still.)

Probably so on the lawyers portion: cheaper and easier to maintain
storage than fight lawsuits. ...I wonder what it would cost to ship my
Epson FX-286? (Yeah, I'll carry the shipping initially but expect it
back.)

> And I've kept other older stuff just because of having older computers:
> why get rid of a daughtercard or whatever just to end up maybe needing
> it later?
KM> THIS!!! no matter what you deem too outdated to keep and
KM> therefore throw away, THAT will be the next weird thing you need
KM> and can't find!!!
Yup! Years ago I repaired a pole lamp for one of the kids using a
plastic part leftover from a toilet repair kit (!).

Congrats, here's your Proper Midwesterner Badge <g>

Thank you!

Heatsink sounds like a very good idea, along with maybe a strip of
asbestos insulation if flush against the motherboard. (Asbestos?! Yeah
- from the odds and ends box we've been fill with "throw that junk out!" stuff for years!!)

Haha, yeah... junk you can't buy anymore gets suddenly valuable!

Very true! And sometimes as important is I don't have to re-buy it.
(The plumbing part may have been 'free' as included inthe kit but I still
paid for it in the price of the pit.)

> Hadn't head about Gnome and the swipe thing -- we have to get touch
> screens now or right_click and move? (semi-joke). Might be in 20.04,
> I'm at 18.04.
KM> Oh, I mean the way the desktop operates, where you don't have
KM> static icons, you have a display that you crank back and forth.
KM> Drives me to drink.
Oh, that! yes, I've occasionally done something to scroll my display to another window. I think it's Settings > Display > number of windows. Obviously I haven't changed it! ...Took a quick look, that's not right. Maybe I was thinking the Raspberry Pi.

Not desktops; how the icons are displayed. Drives me mad.

Just have to write your own preference!

I think there are supposed to be four desktops, even if I never
use 3 of 'em. I like the OpenBox names for 'em: Air, Earth, Fire,
and Water. <g>

That sounds mystical!

> But Microsoft _never_ steals nor does underhanded things like that!
KM> Well, technically you can't 'steal' opensource... I don't think
KM> it would be a good move, tho, and not only because having
KM> alternative ecosystems is generally a good thing. Switching their
KM> codebase to linux is what basically killed Novell -- they went
KM> from having an utterly unique product to being just another Linux
KM> also-ran, which sealed the company's fate.
Yup: would seem like using open source code (Free BSD?) would make what makes Windows unique just another version.

Yeah... of course MacOS is really mangled BSD, but Apple users
generally have too few clues to know that. And BSD doesn't
require 'giving back' altered source code (being rather more
truly free than the GPL), so Apple can hide what they're doing.
Linux base, tho, would require source be made available, since
the M/a/r/x/i/s/t/ GPL license requires that.

Good and bad points to each. I wouldn't know where to begin on altering/ updating/correcting source code. I've sort of looked at some here to
see about making something work better for me. Was a home-brewed copy routine: the 'direct' way wasn't working so did figure out a
work-around. (No, wasn't for this computer, a different one.)

KM> Oh, going down ain't so fun either... mower wants to run away
KM> from me! But yeah, sideways part, the mower has to be full of gas
KM> or it stalls out.
Mow with the tank on the other side!

Actually I do have to do that!

Tends to avoid the worry about the gasoline spilling out and being lit
on fire, though the horizontal bands of flames is rather eye-catching to
view!

> > .. If say "I always lie", am I lying?
> KM> Yes. No. <g>
> True!
KM> False!
Um, "X"?

Marks the spot.

Right where I'm ticklish!



¯ ®
¯ Barry_Martin_3@ ®
¯ @Q.COM ®
¯ ®


... Damascus, Syria, founded 753 BC, is oldest continuously inhabited city.
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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

> > KM> These durn two-legged stools....
> > I wonder if that's why it was so cheap?!
> KM> 30% off!!
> If a three-legged stool closer to one-third!
KM> I left a stump, in case it falls over. :)
That should supply some stability! ...Just might not be too convenient
to lug around.

No worries, I'll just cut the other legs to match....
...why am I sitting on the ground??

OK. Right now a bigger project shoved its way to the front of the line:
the new router with the fiber optic ISP changed the LAN to a different

How fast is fiber, really?
Test here:
https://testmy.net/

You can either make an account or not; it will remember you without an
account for several months, which is handy for comparing.

Mine is embarrassing...

IP address set. Changing over (most of) the computers is no big deal;
on the one I record the TV shows on the database is still being told to
look at the old IP. Was given some tests over the weekend, did find the (hopefully not 'a') value that's reporting the old value, so hopefully
get an answer this morning on how to fix. (Not sure if I found a bug or
just something not set up right here originally.)

I don't have a fixed IP address, and all the PCs take their IPs from the router, so no worries there. 192.168.0.1, 192.168.02, ...

Windows 10 now comes with some Amazon server foisted upon you, that will
show up as a name in your router but you can't see otherwise. Not sure
what that's supposed to be for... noticed the name changed when
Fireball's experimental install updated itself. (Rude bugger, hogs the
entire connection.)

> > KM> Sound policy!
> > alsa or Pulseaudio?!
> KM> Whichever one doesn't crash!
> Ummm, both do with the cymbals sounds. ...Yeah: weak joke.
KM> My Windows exit sound used to be breaking glass... WAV file came
KM> with WordPerfect6 for DOS!
That would be a better BSOD alert! <g>

Oh, for general errors I had "No no no yer doin' it all wrong!" But Argo
would never dream of doing a BSOD. Argo was 100% well-behaved Win95. :)

(Argo also had RedHat6, which was awful.)

> have to dig down into hard-to-find manuals.
KM> Woah, that's specific!!
It was!! I think maybe they (DEC) put it out there in the open to
emphasize the two CPUs: "the DEC Rainbow 100 has two CPUs for faster processing" vs. "the DEC Rainbow 100 has two processors. The Z80
controls <functions> while the 8088 does <other functions>." Same information, and I'm not sure how much the user cares which processor
does what as long as it's faster.

Huh. Didn't know it had two. That was right fancy for its day.
<goes off, looks up Z80>
Appears it was sort of a combo CMOS and math coprocessor.

KM> rivet into the spots. Really good case otherwise, but lordy,
KM> gamers and their desire to show off their guts...
<chuckle> Look! The fans are spinning really-really fast! I've got

And the colored LEDs are blinking a lot!!

one, maybe two cases with a see-through panel. (Obviously that's how impressed I am with the option!) Remember when buying the one case
liking everything about the case except that see-through panel. Kept looking, if I liked the case not enough slots or something else; enough
slots and case was ugly or expensive. Finally got the case with the

That's why I like these old RaidMax cases, and hoard every one I see:
plain but not ugly, ten drive bays, and while cheaply made, nothing is
really *badly* made. Strong enough to use for a ladder, too. (And they
come new with enough screws for 3 PCs.)

And I've never sliced myself open on one, unlike one particular AT case
that was otherwise much better-designed than most, but lordy the razor
blade edges on all the sheet metal... and it was the same on every one
of that model I ever saw. Which was how the ones I worked inside came to
have electrical tape on all the exposed edges. (In fact I still have one
in the basement, sitting empty.)

clear panel. With one placement the open side was against the side of
the desk so didn't show other than a red glow (side panel also had a fan
with red LEDs - fortunately just static). Another build later and the
case was in my old computer stand, again with the clear panel obscured
by the cabinet side panel.

Sadly unless I swap Moonbase and Silver (which I suppose I could do) the
clear panel is in plain view... some year I'll build shelving for these critters and then perhaps it'll be hidden. <g> And it has a brightly
colored LED fan, but fortunately not blinky.

KM> Likely so... more fins uses more metal and costs more!
"We want profit!" "We want something that works at a reasonable price!"

Gee, I wonder who said what...

KM> Yeah, there's something to be said for settling on a standard and
KM> sticking to it... like, not having to relearn from scratch!

To me that has advantages! You do some sort of IT work, so pays to be

Well, I used to build and maintain custom systems, and was the hardware
dude for the SoCal user grope, but haven't done any of that in about ten
years now. So now it's all just for me. Mine! MINE!!

familiar with various OSs. Me, I'm just doing it as a hobby and "less
is more". (Though I counted six live computers just up here!)

Lessee... in sight we have ..

-- Cash (usually PCLinuxOS streaming box, but temporarily replacing its defective twin with Silver's old XP)
-- Moonbase (DOS = DOOM)
-- Bullet (XP64, file server)
-- Silver II (OS jury still out, but runs XP64 best)
-- Fireball (OS jury still out, it prefers Win10, that will never do!)
-- Airwolf (giant server, now somewhat cannibalized; no OS)
-- Dell #1 (Win7)
-- Dell #2 (Hackintosh and Windows Server2008R2, Neige workstation edition)
-- Dell #3 (PCLinuxOS)

All but Dell #2 are powered on, tho right now everyone but Cash, Bullet,
and Moonbase are asleep. (Shhhh!)

Bullet was so named because at the time it was faster than a speeding... Silver came along afterward and was named for the case color. Only
somewhat later did I realise that I had Silver Bullet!
And Fireball is a Xeon, so having already named a Xeon Xorro, next
thing to come into my head was Fireball XL-5, and there ya go. :D

KM> Yeah, so long as I'm alerted, I don't care why! Kept smelling
KM> something I didn't like... discovered a rotted-out flue under the
KM> house... well, that explains it! (Replaced along with the furnace
KM> that died last winter.)

That perforated flue could have turned you blue! (CO effect.) I sort

Actually, gave me a headache, which was clue #2 to what I was smelling.

of start to 'freak out' at the beginning of the heating season when the
dust is burning off inside the furnace: something's burning! (OK,

Haha... mine doesn't do that, but the wood stove is Not Right and
sometimes leaks dead burnt smells into the house. (Also sends smoke the
wrong way -- chimney is plenty tall, think it's a design problem.) This
does tend to cause momentary alarm... is also why wood stove not used.

KM> Level display does sound better.
Yes, just like the older cars had gauges on the dash. I may not know
what they do or mean but that 'oil' one has been pointing low of where
it usually is - better get checked. (Topped off with half a quart.)
Now: tum-de-dum -- oh! The oil can is lit up! Down three quarts!

Yeah, I hate that. Just gimme a damn gauge that actually means
something. Seriously, would you like the speedometer to only display a
light when you're over 60mph?? And what's with all the touch screens
that you have to TAKE YOUR EYES OFF THE ROAD to use??

That's another reason looking for older for the winter 4WD, probably
1996 or before... I like knobs, ON THE DASH. And the dimmer switch on
the floor, as the gods intended. (Okay, so that's 1991 or before...)

KM> And that's how it went. Something in the installs from this year
KM> is messing up kioslave, whatever that is, so can't do disk
KM> anything. My old install does not have the problem even after
KM> updates. (Keeping fingers, toes, eyes, and wires crossed...)

Kioslave -- sounds like something not politically correct or a new
medication one shoudl ask their doctor about just because the
advertisement said to! I'd sort of guess with the 'io' in there might
have something to do with an input-output, especially as you said "can't
do disk anything".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KIO

KIO (KDE Input/Output) is a system library incorporated into KDE
Frameworks 5 and KDE Software Compilation 4. It provides access to
files, web sites and other resources through a single consistent API.

Yeah, that's the one. Both our Jan. and May ISOs had the problem -- Jan.
after a recent update, May out of the box. Finally installed MyLiveGTK
and made an ISO of my good install on the Dell, and installed from that.
Works perfectly, even after updating. No more errors. (Also, it's better looking and already has all my software and tweaks.)

BTW if you do that... when the installer asks for a new user, SKIP, or
you'll be sorry. Cuz the ISO still has the user credentials from the
install that the ISO was made from, and if you re-add your name because
at that point there's no user in sight, you won't be able to log in at
all. Trust me on this. :)

Well, at least PCLOS only takes five minutes to install, and two clicks.

KM> Nope... I can install linux on it. I can install Win10 on it.
KM> (Apparently the board has an embedded license, as W10
KM> auto-activated itself.) I can run a 'portable' Win7 on it, but
KM> Win7 will not install. Given its intended job as fileserver (cuz
KM> native SAS ports) I'd really rather have XP64 on it, but may not
KM> be in the cards.

Ahhhh!! I have an old DVD that does something similar: will only run on
a specific version of Windows (came bundled with something we sold at
the store). I did get it to work once altering some parameter, or maybe
a form of virtual machine - LIS been years.

Server2008R2 would have been satisfactory as well (next best thing to
XP64, as it defaults to a sane interface) but it wouldn't install
either. BUT! I cloned the disk from Dell #2 and that runs fine. Tho this version can only see 32GB RAM, but not like it needs 64GB anyway. (Unfortunately that Dell was a multiboot experiment that I just never
got rid of, so it also has Win10 and Win10Lite on it. They both run good
on the Dell but are a bit laggy on Fireball, even tho it's faster with
more RAM. Its own Win10-by-itself runs much better. I don't understand
this. Oh well, set default boot to 2008R2, and ignore Win10. Damn thing
now apparently rewrites the boot sector whenever you switch OSs, which
does not strike me as a Good Idea. In the olden daze it just pointed at whichever one you picked.)

So now Fireball has working Windows 7/2008R2/10, and one working Linux,
so at least it's functional across a reasonable spectrum, if not ideal.

Normally anymore I don't do multiboot but rather use hotswap bays and
laptop HDs, one per OS... but the Dells have no bays at all, so the experimental installs had to share one well-buried HD.

KM> Speaking of disk support... I'm wondering how I partitioned the
KM> NVMe on a Win7 setup when Win7 does not natively support NVMe,
KM> and the hotfix to support it has been killed off. BUT! I found a
KM> patch and driver that work on XP64. Tada!
KM> http://doomgold.com/pcstuff/NVMe.rar

Got it - thanks! And congratulations of sorts ;) : you're the first
file I downloaded since getting fiber optic. Click, done - really?!

Happy to help pluck its cherry <g>
Patches included for Win7/8/10.
XP64 and Server2003 are basically the same OS.

KM> Nope, doesn't seem to apply. And my response to "linux won't
KM> install" has always been to throw out that distro and find
KM> another one. <g>
That can work! I done something similar with utilities: too complicated
to get to install, probably too much work to get to work or work with.

Yeah, I have no patience anymore. Either it works easily or out it goes.

I'm probably going to step on a few toes on the various sides of the
topic but here goes. I'm also going to be viewing more from the casual cityified dog owner. It seems most people want a buddy out of their pet
dog and "to love me I have to give you freedom to do anything and lavish
you with gifts [treats]". That usually ends up with the owner getting
walked all over and the dog is more the owner of the human.

Exactly. This is also why dog bites are on the increase -- a dog with
low bite inhibition will take this as permission to put its teeth on
you. (Also, neutered dogs are more likely to fear-bite.)

With Honey, my Lhasa Apso, unknown adoption history so some retraining,
plus her getting accustomed to a new and apparently less menacing environment. At the time the back yard wasn't fully fenced; didn't want

Coming from a bad environment -- a normal puppy only takes 3 days to
recover, and a normal adult only about a month. Any behavior that
persists beyond that is not from "abuse" or whatever badness, but rather
is inherent to the dog's temperament. And there are a lot of dogs with inherited neuroses or even psychoses.

her wandering in to the neighbour's back yard. There were some shrubs
along the line so used them as a visual cue of which side to stay on.
Walked her around the yard on leash, started with the fenced side which
also has some shrubs and plants; she started to wander too close to the
fence would tighten the leash slightly and I'd say "this side!" -- maybe
a 'come here' type command at first too. Verbal praise, maybe a petting; didn't have any treats on me so no munchies. She did learn to stay with
me, not wander.

Tightening the leash is negative reinforcement, and that was actually
what taught her the boundary. Praising her for coming back didn't really
do much. In fact praise as typically used (effusive and whiny-voiced) is really more of a permission to STOP obeying.

The most effective praise is not a reward at all, but a command: "Good!" spoken like you're giving a new command. And it is -- it means: "Pay attention, because you *might* get another chance to please me!" This
works even with dogs that have a natural screw-you attitude, and
produces fantastic desire to do well in dogs that naturally want to please.

And there exist dogs that cannot be praised at ALL, because they take it
as license to disobey. So long as they're uncertain, and think they
might yet earn your displeasure, they'll cheerfully obey... but the
moment you say "Good dog!" they'll thumb their nose and run off to do
dog things, and screw you. (Yes, have owned one like this... the very
behavior that popularized the electric collar in field dogs.)

Since I want the dog to work FOR ME, I've assiduously bred against the screw-you type, and for the desire to just naturally obey (and the
brains to figure it out). After 14 generations of my own dogs being
selected that way, other dogs seem both stubborn and retarded. <g>

Which is why Lukas stayed... his looks are not ideal, but behavior-wise
he's like the perfect dog all the time, even without any training. Just
sorta naturally does whatever you want, and never does anything bad.

And his first pups have a lot of that too. They are not drilled and have almost no formal training; this is just everyday manners:

Six weeks:
http://doomgold.com/kennel/videos/lukas-skid-wait_7401.mov

Nine weeks: http://doomgold.com/kennel/videos/Lukas-Skid-9wks-controlled-break_7498.mov Note how the one that 'broke' (left before being allowed) put itself
back -- correcting its own mistake.

Four months (had been on a long sit, but camera didn't start recording
as soon as I'd thought): http://doomgold.com/kennel/videos/Lukas-Skid-come-4mos_001.mov

Their mom doing a simple retrieve: http://doomgold.com/kennel/videos/Skid-retrieve_7859.mov

Hmmm! so sort of push-the-button-for-food. I may have trained Honey the right way sort of accidentally but seemed to make more sense. Her treat
was praise, which hopefully made her feel good.

The best treat is actively pleasing the human -- dogs get pleasure more
from activity than from aftermath (which is what praise and petting
would be). Still, if the praise was properly distributed, it told her
that a certain activity would be pleasurable, which tends to lead to
obedient behavior (at least if the dog has desire to please. Some
don't.) In other words, another chance to please you.

<laff> Was sitting in the side yard yesterday morning because the power
was out and so can't do anything inside and the fans not circulation air
was getting a little stuffy. Maybe out there 45 minutes, an hour. Not
one car! Only saw the power company's truck slow down to check the pole transformer in all that time. Did see a 'people': guy walking his dog.
Two jets.

Busy day. <g> There's a highway between Lee Vining CA and Hawthorne NV
that I enjoy... it's about 55 miles and on one particularly busy day, I
saw a car, an 18 wheeler, and a bicycle. (Normal trip, I might see ONE vehicle, and more often none.) I don't know why hardly anyone takes that
route ... if you're going from Bishop CA to Fallon NV, it's a much
better road than US Hwy 6, and the pass is an easier climb. But all the
truck traffic seems to go the other way.

> KM> (Similarly, repeat breedings in dogs are never the same quality,
> KM> and sometimes very different... well, here's an explanation.
> I'm in computer mode: thinking analog vs. digital duplication!
KM> LOL, if only!!
That could be the premise for a science-fiction book! ...One of the
female cashiers at the store would read romance novels on break -- could
sort of see a Fabio-type cover with a bit of robot revealed. Soft-
graphic "John!" "Marsha!" segments alternating between the analog and
digital coupling - and now the monster coming out of the stomach (like
in Alien?? -- not sure if the right movie). ...Must have had a couple of fermented grapes with breakfast -- sheesh!!

Clearly Barry needs to write Weird SF. <g> There's actually a market
for that kind of thing, ya know...

KM> How you can not know this just from looking... in a herd of 100
KM> wild deer, you'll be hard pressed to pick one out, because they
KM> all look exactly alike. But 100 dogs, even of the same breed,
KM> will look like 100 different dogs. Fact is domestic breeding
KM> preserves tons of genes that in nature would be Darwined away.

Dogs specifically bred to enhance some feature beneficial to humans but
not necessarily to nature in general.

That, and humans preserving traits that don't work well in the wild.
Desire to please is one of 'em... in the wild it'll just get you eaten.

Scott County Park allows bow and arrow deer hunting during a specific
time of year to trim the herd. A few other areas on both sides of the
River do similar.

We need to thin 'em out a bit on the west side of the state... Hwy 93 routinely records over 200 car-vs-deer per DAY. Well, the invasive
wolves (what they 'reintroduced' was NOT a native type) will see to
that, eventually...

> We're assuming 'billionaire' was referring to a currency and not
> ownership of a billion grass clippings!
KM> Oh, that I already have... and five lawn mowers in various stages
KM> of worn out. <g>
Hey look! This one has the blade worn out!

Funny thing, the one with the blade that looks like it was overdue for replacement in 1993 does the best mulching job! Probably beats it to smithereens, cuz it has no edge left at all.

KM> Did you know there are whole communities of folks who collect
KM> lawn mowers? :)

Why do I feel like I'm being set up for a really weird joke?! Let's

I dunno, cuz you thought of one? :D

see.... Frisbyterians, souls to the roof...

Pastafarian... soul food.

> And if you're a benevolent dictator might not be all that bad.
KM> I often say, "When I become dictator" just before espousing some
KM> excellent policy. <g>

"Excellent policy" to who's benefit?!

Well, since I'm dictator... mine, of course! <g>

KM> Oh, we KNOW that's not an Apple error.. they would never admit
KM> that "We" made a boo-boo!!

So go windows: the icon says "My Computer", so not yours!

Not MINE! <g>

I also change "Network Neighborhood" to say "Network Hoods". :D

KM> Haha... I don't know what 'treasures' I need, but I'm sure there
KM> must be some. <g>

Oh, maybe a clue to the lawn mower thing up there: there's some island culture using huge rings of rock as currency ('treasure'), so maybe the

Seriously?? kinda lacking in portability... at a guess, some
anthropologist got pranked, which many semi-primitive cultures LOVE to
do to strangers.

lawn mowers are being used as currency! ...This is worth 1 lawn mower,
this is worth one mow job....

Haha... sounds like my neighborhood <g>

KM> I need to do something like that, instead of "overflowing boxes
KM> sitting in the middle of the floor, apparently full of very thin
KM> snakes during mating season".

<chuckle> Yeah, had that here! Loosely coil the cables, secure with twist-ties or appropriate lengths of scrap wire. I sometimes use two if

Walmart has rolls of velcro cable-thingees for cheap. I need to get
more! Yes, I already used up both rolls...

KM> I have a color laser I picked up cheap (with extra carts) but
KM> haven't got around to setting it up... ended up less motivated
KM> than I expected. Wireless so main thing is finding an outlet...
KM> scarce in this house.

That's a problem with older houses: back when they were built not as
much electrical stuff so less need for outlets. Electrician I knew when
I was working at the college updated his place with quad instead of
duplex outlets, so a cluster of four instead of the usual two outlets
per 'wall outlet'.

Oh, it's not a lack of outlets, it's that they apparently used salvage
from 1920.. they're the old ROUND outlets like I haven't seen a plug for
in 50+ years, and it was ancient then. And they're live, so don't go
stickin' your fork in one!

storage than fight lawsuits. ...I wonder what it would cost to ship my
Epson FX-286? (Yeah, I'll carry the shipping initially but expect it
back.)

A whole lot, probably. I had a wide-carriage (like 30") pin impact but
it got left behind when I moved, being an awkward heavy bugger and I'd
never got around to using it as I'd planned. Also, where do you get paper??!

Fact is I just don't print much anymore. So naturally I have more
printers than ever.

KM> I think there are supposed to be four desktops, even if I never
KM> use 3 of 'em. I like the OpenBox names for 'em: Air, Earth, Fire,
KM> and Water. <g>

That sounds mystical!

It makes me laugh every time. :D

Good and bad points to each. I wouldn't know where to begin on altering/ updating/correcting source code. I've sort of looked at some here to
see about making something work better for me. Was a home-brewed copy routine: the 'direct' way wasn't working so did figure out a
work-around. (No, wasn't for this computer, a different one.)

I'm not much on that either. I've done some hacking with a hex editor,
and with Resource Hacker, but that's much the same -- just editing the surface. Doesn't change the guts. (This is why when I used BlueWave, it
would ID itself as variously HeatWave or ColdWave, and I was tempted to
use CrimeWave. :D

> Mow with the tank on the other side!
KM> Actually I do have to do that!

Tends to avoid the worry about the gasoline spilling out and being lit
on fire, though the horizontal bands of flames is rather eye-catching to view!

I'll bet! We shall not try that here. :D

>
> > > .. If say "I always lie", am I lying?
> > KM> Yes. No. <g>
> > True!
> KM> False!
> Um, "X"?
KM> Marks the spot.
Right where I'm ticklish!

That why you laughin' at me? :D
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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

Woah! Barry!!

Hey, I actually needed that RAM the other day.. haven't quite given up
on the D20 board that died of a bent CPU pin (worked fine with one CPU;
put in the second and PFFZT! bent pin was very subtle, can't blame the
seller for missing it. RMA'd and refunded and returned, and then he
refused the shipment so I got the board back, a clever way for him to
avoid paying return postage on a "free return".) Anyway with your RAM it
at least powers on, tho so far haven't got any further. Need
higher-powered magnifier and better light so I can see if there's
something else making contact in there that shouldn't be. At least the
power on indicates it's not shorted to the point of totally dead!!

> > > KM> These durn two-legged stools....
> > > I wonder if that's why it was so cheap?!
> > KM> 30% off!!
> > If a three-legged stool closer to one-third!
> KM> I left a stump, in case it falls over. :)
> That should supply some stability! ...Just might not be too convenient
> to lug around.
KM> No worries, I'll just cut the other legs to match....
KM> ...why am I sitting on the ground??
I think it's "measure twice, cut once", not the other way around!

I cut it three times, and it's STILL too short!!

KM> How fast is fiber, really?
KM> Test here:
KM> https://testmy.net/

Looks pretty good to me: have the 200 Mbps service. D/l reported as 204
Mbps, u/l 146.6 Mbps. So the u/l is a bit sluggish but could be due to factors other than them.

Your idea of sluggish is a lot faster than mine... on a good day,
downhill with a whip and a tailwind and someone out behind helping push,
I get 5.2Mbps down, 0.8Mbps up.

KM> Mine is embarrassing...

You're also "out in the boonies" IIRC.

Only a mile from town and 15,000 feet from the junction box... tho yeah,
I used to be where to see civilization, you needed a good telescope!

Did receive a fix yesterday morning and so now on to other issues! I
have been using some fixed addresses just to make certain devices easier
to find. The MythTV Backend sort of needs to be at one address so the Frontend devices can find it. The NAS also pretty much has to be at one place.

Can't you assign it one address on your router? I can do that on mine
and it only has half a brain cell. (I don't bother, tho, cuz nothing
here needs it. Also it tends to keep the same one per device anyway.)

this computer will play-buffer-play-buffer.... Haven't done a mega-d/l
yet. Could see where might still have a buffering problem if the d/l
doesn't share nicely.

He went from donkey to jet plane and complains about the speed of
freight. :D :D :D

[Speaking of freight: we're on day 12 for a priority parcel from the Bay
area, tho it's finally made it to Billings... 9 days for the previous
two from CA... methinks CA's mail system is totally busted.]

KM> Oh, for general errors I had "No no no yer doin' it all wrong!"
KM> But Argo would never dream of doing a BSOD. Argo was 100%
KM> well-behaved Win95. :)
And then they broke it. :(

Yeah... did I mention Win10 deciding to nuke the partition table on a USB-attached HD? I *think* what happened is that it saw the older
version of NTFS, said gee, that needs updating, and ... no more
partition table. Win10 is now closing fast on the #1 spot on my $#!T
List, and will never again be trusted near data it doesn't own.

Weirdly, out of six identical Win10 installs on 6 laptops (which
recently fell on my head, Win10 and all -- two matched i5 and four
matched i7, so by my standards quite modern!) ... three behave as if
they're activated (they're not), and let me do whatever I want, and
three whine that they're not activated and refuse to play nice. Guess
which three were quickly replaced. <g> I do need to find some SODIMM 4GB
or 8GB DDR3 sticks, as they're all sadly under-RAM'd.

[I've seen this before. I think it's a bug in the hash that Windows uses
to create a unique machine identifier, so about half the time it thinks
it's activated even when it's not -- it still says it's not on the
Properties screen, but acts like it is everywhere else. I think because
it uses essentially random stuff like the hardware serials/model
numbers, about half the time it hits a hash that says to it, "Activated"
where it counts. Such installs are portable and will not complain about
new hardware. Also tells me they're probably using a flawed RNG that has
gaps in its randomness, hence the bug.]

Didn't like some quirks of the latest PCLinuxOS/KDE release, so finally
got around to making a live ISO from my good setup (it's nice to have
all my tweaks and software already in place). So one laptop now has
that. Runs very well and doesn't annoy me every five minutes.

I think another will have PCLOS/Trinity.

A little experimenting on old and older hardware informed me that PCLOS
runs really well on about 2.2GHz 2-core and above; below that it loses
its snappiness, but isn't yet laggy. So now in the interests of Science
I'm looking for the slowest x64 CPU in existence, so I can test my
theory that it's still at least usable on barrel-scrapings. (Conversely, Mageia and Ubuntu are both laggy on the i7-3.7GHz with 32GB RAM.)

Actually, Westworld's original CPU might qualify... it would run Mint17,
but not well. PCLOS has a bit better performance than Mint.

> KM> rivet into the spots. Really good case otherwise, but lordy,
> KM> gamers and their desire to show off their guts...
> <chuckle> Look! The fans are spinning really-really fast! I've got
KM> And the colored LEDs are blinking a lot!!
Oh good! I thought I was having one of those spells!

Silly Blinky Tricks: don't have a 2-pin speaker for the Thinkstation
board. Do have a 2-pin LED, and remember someone using an LED instead of
a speaker, for a deaf user. It works!

[What idiot uses oo pins for the speaker, instead of oxxo like the whole
rest of the world??]

KM> nothing is really *badly* made. Strong enough to use for a
KM> ladder, too. (And they come new with enough screws for 3 PCs.)
I don't think I'd attempt to use any of my cases as a step stool/ladder!

Oh, you can quite safely use these old metal RaidMax cases as a ladder!

[Razor Case]

KM> exposed edges. (In fact I still have one in the basement, sitting
KM> empty.)

Empty except with your blood! ..You really should have refrigerated it
for a potential transfusion!

Haha... yeah, if I ever use that case, I'm gonna name it Vampire.

I haven't had the Case of a Thousand Knives but have had some which
should have come wth a couple of Band Aids.

Yeah, and that's worse. When you KNOW everything is sharp, you're
forewarned. It's the surprise random sharp spot that will get you when
you didn't expect it. Seen that too, makes unhappy Ky and blood on the components.

> KM> Likely so... more fins uses more metal and costs more!
> "We want profit!" "We want something that works at a reasonable price!"
KM> Gee, I wonder who said what...
The shoplifters?!

THAT must be what the looting is about!!

KM> Well, I used to build and maintain custom systems, and was the
KM> hardware dude for the SoCal user grope, but haven't done any of
KM> that in about ten years now. So now it's all just for me. Mine!
KM> MINE!!
Probably because a lot of people use their cell phones and tablets as if
they were computers cut into that market.

Something like 60% of the market is now cells and tablets. And PCs
became more and more disposable. So yeah, not much market anymore.


>Plus your dogs aren't nearly

as demanding!

Haha, yeah, customers complain when you lock them in the kennel. Tho
I've been known to use the Rex Carr method on dumb owners (do it like I
told you, or I will hit YOU with the whip. Works amazingly well!)

KM> And Fireball is a Xeon, so having already named a Xeon Xorro,
KM> next thing to come into my head was Fireball XL-5, and there ya
KM> go. :D

Much more fanciful names than what I'm been coming up with. This one's "NZXT" because of the name on the case. A main computer downstairs is

Yeah, that's how Dink and Wedgie got their names -- DNK on the case, and WedgTek on the case.

"ThermalTake". And I have a case for a project that's been on hold
from Raijintek - oh poop!

It's better if you can pronounce 'em...

Frontend computer in the Sitting Room (Den --
no idea why we're using an old term) called 'BrokenTab' because one of
the tabs holding on the heatsink broke off.

What will you call it if you ever replace the mount? :D

KM> design problem.) This does tend to cause momentary alarm... is
KM> also why wood stove not used.
So when you go to the doctor's office they ask how many cartons a day
you smoke?!

Haha... if I were using it, I'd probably get that!

As for the smoke coming in to the house, hmm: I like the name of this
site! https://www.gratewalloffire.com/Fireplace-smoke_ep_54-1.html

Good one :)

Anyway, a few web hits are indicated blocked flues - usually creosote,
though could be a closed damer (who installed the knob the wrong way?!).
When we had the free-standing fireplace removed when building the
addition the guys found a bird's nest in the flue!

Ain't blocked. Is tall enough. Still misbehaves even with hot fire and a window hanging open. Tends to go down to nothing and make way too much creosote. Something designed wrong somewhere.... actually I wonder if it
might be that the rain cap needs much bigger openings to cope with the
8" pipe.

KM> something. Seriously, would you like the speedometer to only
KM> display a light when you're over 60mph?? And what's with all the
KM> touch screens that you have to TAKE YOUR EYES OFF THE ROAD to
KM> use??
<chuckle> Yeah! Would also seem even if the dash display is projected
on to the windshield one is also focusing and effectively looking at the inside of the windshield and not the road beyond.

Oh lordy, there's one to keep everyone from looking on down the road any further than your own hood.

KM> That's another reason looking for older for the winter 4WD,
KM> probably 1996 or before... I like knobs, ON THE DASH. And the
KM> dimmer switch on the floor, as the gods intended. (Okay, so
KM> that's 1991 or before...)

Well I'll admit the dimmer switch on the left steering wheel sticky- out-thing isn't bad. Over the years I've more or less trained myself to

It might not be bad but it's in the wrong place!! And all the blonds get
their foot caught in the steering wheel. :P

ignore certain things and keep my eyes on the road, then glance to adjust/turn on/turn off whatever when the traffic conditions allow.

I like having controls I can grope, so I can find and manipulate them
not only without looking away from the road, but also in the dark when
the dash backlight is set fairly dim. (Old truck, radio backlight went
off before the dash backlight did, probably by design in case someone
found it distracting.)

More important to know when the volume control of the radio is than the
tuner buttons ==> quick left spin of the volume to cut the sound, worry
about the station selection later.

Nothing wrong with a dial and buttons for station selection!! Perfectly gropable!!

KM> -- Jan. after a recent update, May out of the box. Finally
KM> installed MyLiveGTK and made an ISO of my good install on the
That's where it would be beneficial for me to know how to create stuff, but....

MyLiveGTK is pretty simple. Exclude unwanted locations (such as your
backup and ISO storage directories... can you can infinitely recursive?
I knew you could!), and it includes everything else and cleans up after itself. It's slow but works pretty well. Voila, an hour or two later a
custom install disk, with everything (including /Home) intact.

KM> Well, at least PCLOS only takes five minutes to install, and two
KM> clicks.

I don't recall how long the basic Ubuntu (so 18.04) takes -- maybe five
or ten minutes but I almosrt always have the installation do the update
while it's at it, and obviously that adds to the installation time.

Fedora install time and behavior wasn't bad, but Debian took a good hour
and needed lots of babysitting. I never again want to hear how Windows installer rudely stops and demands input every two minutes...

Also makes a lot of difference if from a DVD or thumbdrive -- thumbdrive
sooo much faster, just I sort of miss seeing the blinkenlicht telling me something is happening during those periods of "I'm thinking" and
nothing happening on the screen.

This!! especially when the USB3 port is hidden in the back...

KM> own Win10-by-itself runs much better. I don't understand this. Oh
KM> well, set default boot to 2008R2, and ignore Win10. Damn thing
KM> now apparently rewrites the boot sector whenever you switch OSs,
KM> which does not strike me as a Good Idea. In the olden daze it
KM> just pointed at whichever one you picked.)

Yes, overwriting the boot sector sounds a little dangerous as if
something were to go wrong nothing to switch back to. I'm thinking of
should a power failure occur and the UPS not kick in, or not for a
sufficient time.

Did I gripe about that again today? It still annoys me. <g>

KM> So now Fireball has working Windows 7/2008R2/10, and one working
KM> Linux, so at least it's functional across a reasonable spectrum,
KM> if not ideal.

But still not XP64, which would be better for its intended use.

BUT! The Lenovo guy found the XP install guide, and looks like the
problem might be it needs the Storport driver (same one as for NVMe
support), which has to be slipstreamed into the ISO. Would probably also
fix it for the HP laptops that refused to play nice (XP errored out the
same way).

That should provide some fun experimental stuff for you!

Oh, the fun never ends... official Lenovo guy in the forum says, how is
OS Optimized Defaults set? Disabled. Let's try Enabled. INSTANT BRICK.
CMOS reset did not improve matters. Well, turns out that setting
disables absolutely everything legacy (which he said means it shipped
with Win8 -- uh, why does it *HATE* Win8??), AND IS STICKY across CMOS
resets, so it played dead til I found it a newer vidcard that does UEFI,
and could change it back. *whew* (And if that's how you feel, you can
keep that card. Geesh. What do you mean you don't have a driver for it?
It's the same card that was in Lightfoot when that Win7 was installed
that you're cloned from; it already HAS the durn driver, you ninny! Look
over there. See? It's right there. Geesh!!)

KM> Normally anymore I don't do multiboot but rather use hotswap bays
KM> and laptop HDs, one per OS... but the Dells have no bays at all,
KM> so the experimental installs had to share one well-buried HD.

LIS in an earlier message I wasn't too impressed with purchasing Dell as a refurbished machine for my use: found it difficult to pin down the
specifics on a particular machine being considered. Not saying they
aren't a good machine, just for my needs not a good fit. I pretty much
need those empty bays and motherboard slots.

Yeah, me too. The no-space systems are fine for using like a tethered
laptop, but are not suitable for my everyday -- solely because of the
lack of expansion space.

Well, I could use two laptop drives in the single 3.5" internal bay, and
an NVMe on an adapter in the 4x PCI3 slot, but... since I have other
options, why?? still inflexible once you put the lid back on.

Now that it's -- oh let's just say 'initiated' -- I can fill those
empty 2 TB?!

It's easy! Just find an FTP and download the whole thing. ibiblio.org
would make a nice starter kit, and then you could move on to
archive.org. :D :D :D

KM> Patches included for Win7/8/10.
KM> XP64 and Server2003 are basically the same OS.
Any advantage in running the Server version over the XP version,
especially on a virtual nachine?

Probably not. Server runs more admin type things and needs more
resources. I've not run 2003 but I use XP64 on Bullet and love it.

Rather pronounced with Win7 vs SVR2008R2 -- server uses 4x the RAM. (But
on a high-RAM system, no worries, and interface is less annoying.)

KM> Yeah, I have no patience anymore. Either it works easily or out
KM> it goes.
Time is money! LIS I've done the same over the years with my various

If time flies when you throw a clock, I want to come back as DB Cooper.

Windows and Ubuntus. Not a stopper if the utility needs to have a few
other utilities added to run, but I also need for the utility to be
fairly easy to use.

Yeah. I just don't want to do the hoop jumping anymore. If I have to
print out the instructions, I'm probably on my way elsewhere.

Snipping rest or I'll never get this sent...

"Did you write the Great American Novel?"
"No, just an average reply on the BBS."
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Hi Ky!

Hey, I actually needed that RAM the other day.. haven't quite
given up on the D20 board that died of a bent CPU pin (worked
fine with one CPU; put in the second and PFFZT! bent pin was very
subtle, can't blame the seller for missing it. RMA'd and refunded
and returned, and then he refused the shipment so I got the board
back, a clever way for him to avoid paying return postage on a
"free return".) Anyway with your RAM it at least powers on, tho
so far haven't got any further. Need higher-powered magnifier and
better light so I can see if there's something else making
contact in there that shouldn't be. At least the power on
indicates it's not shorted to the point of totally dead!!

Well good on the RAM, bad on the vendor -- he authorized the return with
the RMA and then refused, so not honouring his own RMA?!

As for the finding the contact (or possibly non-contact) point -- good
luck!! Sort of reminds me of the problem with inserting a USB device
here and the machine locks up -- occurred yesterday and I used the
built-in USB 2.0 front panel port, usually the USB 3.0 add-on front
panel. Have to go back to that project, But First!

> > > KM> These durn two-legged stools....
> > > I wonder if that's why it was so cheap?!
> > KM> 30% off!!
> > If a three-legged stool closer to one-third!
> KM> I left a stump, in case it falls over. :)
> That should supply some stability! ...Just might not be too convenient
> to lug around.
KM> No worries, I'll just cut the other legs to match....
KM> ...why am I sitting on the ground??
I think it's "measure twice, cut once", not the other way around!

I cut it three times, and it's STILL too short!!

But is it getting better?

KM> How fast is fiber, really?
KM> Test here:
KM> https://testmy.net/
Looks pretty good to me: have the 200 Mbps service. D/l reported as 204 Mbps, u/l 146.6 Mbps. So the u/l is a bit sluggish but could be due to factors other than them.

Your idea of sluggish is a lot faster than mine... on a good day,
downhill with a whip and a tailwind and someone out behind
helping push, I get 5.2Mbps down, 0.8Mbps up.

Everything's relative. :) IIRC you're out in the country, and the
further away one is from the Central Office the slower the service. I'm
around 1500 _feet_ from the CO. Depends also on available service: this neighbourhood has the options of 7 Mbps and 10 Mbps.

<start a bit of a rant> And received a postcard (!) yesterday advising
me the DSL service will be increased $6 per month. No reason, no
promise of better nor faster service. Just 'because'. </end>

KM> Mine is embarrassing...
You're also "out in the boonies" IIRC.

Only a mile from town and 15,000 feet from the junction box...
tho yeah, I used to be where to see civilization, you needed a
good telescope!

So slowly accustoming yourself to civilization! <g> Though
'civilization' is a relative term.....

Several months ago had the CenturyLink technicians out here for noise on
the line (could hear) and eventually a dead line. Somewhere one of the
two wires broke -- they could semi-pinpoint the location of the break
with their testers: was in one of two junction boxes side-by-side two
blocks from the house. Could either try to find (apparently the boxes
are a mess) or move me to a different pair. I don't really care which
wires I use as long as it works.

Did receive a fix yesterday morning and so now on to other issues! I
have been using some fixed addresses just to make certain devices easier
to find. The MythTV Backend sort of needs to be at one address so the Frontend devices can find it. The NAS also pretty much has to be at one place.

Can't you assign it one address on your router? I can do that on
mine and it only has half a brain cell. (I don't bother, tho, cuz
nothing here needs it. Also it tends to keep the same one per
device anyway.)

Do have it all updated. The main problem was the DSL Router used
192.168.0.x and the fiber optic router 192.168.4.x -- sort of like right building, wrong floor. Did call tech support - the gentleman I talked
said he was the one who brought over the router when he as hired (so 'up there', not a troubleshooting manual reader); we did try a few things
but not able to change the IP address range from 4 to 0.

Not horrible for me to change most of the computers over -- if dynamic
already done -- the static ones a bit of an issue as "4" doesn't see
"0". Did find a command to temporarily assign a computer two IPs (did
it on a laptop first -- easier to reinstall should something go wrong!).

sudo ip addr add 192.168.0.199/24 broadcast 192.168.0.199 dev enp1s0

This will give the 'working' computer with the 192.168.4.x address
another one at 192.168.0.199 so it can see that LAN. Change the device
as required (per ifconfig).

this computer will play-buffer-play-buffer.... Haven't done a mega-d/l
yet. Could see where might still have a buffering problem if the d/l doesn't share nicely.

He went from donkey to jet plane and complains about the speed of
freight. :D :D :D

I like whine with my cheese!!

[Speaking of freight: we're on day 12 for a priority parcel from
the Bay area, tho it's finally made it to Billings... 9 days for
the previous two from CA... methinks CA's mail system is totally
busted.]

Overnight -- you didn't specify which night!!

KM> Oh, for general errors I had "No no no yer doin' it all wrong!"
KM> But Argo would never dream of doing a BSOD. Argo was 100%
KM> well-behaved Win95. :)
And then they broke it. :(

Yeah... did I mention Win10 deciding to nuke the partition table
on a USB-attached HD? I *think* what happened is that it saw the
older version of NTFS, said gee, that needs updating, and ... no
more partition table. Win10 is now closing fast on the #1 spot on
my $#!T List, and will never again be trusted near data it
doesn't own.

I remember you having that problem. Nothing like an OS just assuming
stuff! Yeah, it would be on The List real quick!

Weirdly, out of six identical Win10 installs on 6 laptops (which
recently fell on my head, Win10 and all -- two matched i5 and
four matched i7, so by my standards quite modern!) ... three
behave as if they're activated (they're not), and let me do
whatever I want, and three whine that they're not activated and
refuse to play nice. Guess which three were quickly replaced. <g>
I do need to find some SODIMM 4GB or 8GB DDR3 sticks, as they're
all sadly under-RAM'd.

I know I don't have any laptop-sized memory 'in stock'.

[I've seen this before. I think it's a bug in the hash that
Windows uses to create a unique machine identifier, so about half
the time it thinks it's activated even when it's not -- it still
says it's not on the Properties screen, but acts like it is
everywhere else. I think because it uses essentially random stuff
like the hardware serials/model numbers, about half the time it
hits a hash that says to it, "Activated" where it counts. Such
installs are portable and will not complain about new hardware.
Also tells me they're probably using a flawed RNG that has gaps
in its randomness, hence the bug.]

The folks at Microsoft are slipping!

Didn't like some quirks of the latest PCLinuxOS/KDE release, so
finally got around to making a live ISO from my good setup (it's
nice to have all my tweaks and software already in place). So one
laptop now has that. Runs very well and doesn't annoy me every
five minutes.

That's good! When troubleshooting/repairing/working one stuff don't
need to be interrupted.

A little experimenting on old and older hardware informed me that
PCLOS runs really well on about 2.2GHz 2-core and above; below
that it loses its snappiness, but isn't yet laggy. So now in the
interests of Science I'm looking for the slowest x64 CPU in
existence, so I can test my theory that it's still at least
usable on barrel-scrapings. (Conversely, Mageia and Ubuntu are
both laggy on the i7-3.7GHz with 32GB RAM.)

So fast is slow, slow is acceptable....

> KM> rivet into the spots. Really good case otherwise, but lordy,
> KM> gamers and their desire to show off their guts...
> <chuckle> Look! The fans are spinning really-really fast! I've got
KM> And the colored LEDs are blinking a lot!!
Oh good! I thought I was having one of those spells!

Silly Blinky Tricks: don't have a 2-pin speaker for the
Thinkstation board. Do have a 2-pin LED, and remember someone
using an LED instead of a speaker, for a deaf user. It works!

Makes sense! As long as the 'impendence' of the LED is within a range acceptable to the speaker driver circuit.

[What idiot uses oo pins for the speaker, instead of oxxo like
the whole rest of the world??]

For a speaker-speaker oo would make sense: no polarity. For a piezo-
speaker ox-o would make more sense to make it easier than to guess the polarity.

[Razor Case]

KM> exposed edges. (In fact I still have one in the basement, sitting
KM> empty.)
Empty except with your blood! ..You really should have refrigerated it
for a potential transfusion!

Haha... yeah, if I ever use that case, I'm gonna name it Vampire.

Black, with red trim!

I haven't had the Case of a Thousand Knives but have had some which
should have come wth a couple of Band Aids.

Yeah, and that's worse. When you KNOW everything is sharp, you're forewarned. It's the surprise random sharp spot that will get you
when you didn't expect it. Seen that too, makes unhappy Ky and
blood on the components.

So that begs the qyuestion: can dried blood be used as a electrical
insulator? And what's it R thermal factor?

> KM> Likely so... more fins uses more metal and costs more!
> "We want profit!" "We want something that works at a reasonable price!"
KM> Gee, I wonder who said what...
The shoplifters?!

THAT must be what the looting is about!!

I thought it was the Hokey-Pokey!

KM> Well, I used to build and maintain custom systems, and was the
KM> hardware dude for the SoCal user grope, but haven't done any of
KM> that in about ten years now. So now it's all just for me. Mine!
KM> MINE!!
Probably because a lot of people use their cell phones and tablets as if they were computers cut into that market.

Something like 60% of the market is now cells and tablets. And
PCs became more and more disposable. So yeah, not much market
anymore.

I can see their convenience. OTOH I'd hate to be doing a lot of reading
on a six or seven inch screen. ...Typing a reply like this one - ha!


>Plus your dogs aren't nearly as demanding!

Haha, yeah, customers complain when you lock them in the kennel.
Tho I've been known to use the Rex Carr method on dumb owners (do
it like I told you, or I will hit YOU with the whip. Works
amazingly well!)

<chuckle> "Me or the dog?" 'Me' usually wins!

KM> And Fireball is a Xeon, so having already named a Xeon Xorro,
KM> next thing to come into my head was Fireball XL-5, and there ya
KM> go. :D
Much more fanciful names than what I'm been coming up with. This one's "NZXT" because of the name on the case. A main computer downstairs is

Yeah, that's how Dink and Wedgie got their names -- DNK on the
case, and WedgTek on the case.

I don't feel quite so bad for my lack of name creativity!

"ThermalTake". And I have a case for a project that's been on hold
from Raijintek - oh poop!

It's better if you can pronounce 'em...

Maybe that will be it's name: "Unpronounceable" or maybe "Mumble"!

Frontend computer in the Sitting Room (Den --
no idea why we're using an old term) called 'BrokenTab' because one of
the tabs holding on the heatsink broke off.

What will you call it if you ever replace the mount? :D

"Fixed"?

Anyway, a few web hits are indicated blocked flues - usually creosote, though could be a closed damer (who installed the knob the wrong way?!). When we had the free-standing fireplace removed when building the
addition the guys found a bird's nest in the flue!

Ain't blocked. Is tall enough. Still misbehaves even with hot
fire and a window hanging open. Tends to go down to nothing and
make way too much creosote. Something designed wrong
somewhere.... actually I wonder if it might be that the rain cap
needs much bigger openings to cope with the 8" pipe.

That sounds like a possibilty. I'll let you do the search as sometimes
when I'm looking for an answer I'll come across a side comment which is
the real answer.

KM> something. Seriously, would you like the speedometer to only
KM> display a light when you're over 60mph?? And what's with all the
KM> touch screens that you have to TAKE YOUR EYES OFF THE ROAD to
KM> use??
<chuckle> Yeah! Would also seem even if the dash display is projected
on to the windshield one is also focusing and effectively looking at the inside of the windshield and not the road beyond.

Oh lordy, there's one to keep everyone from looking on down the
road any further than your own hood.

Just another reason to keep out of the other driver's way!

KM> That's another reason looking for older for the winter 4WD,
KM> probably 1996 or before... I like knobs, ON THE DASH. And the
KM> dimmer switch on the floor, as the gods intended. (Okay, so
KM> that's 1991 or before...)
Well I'll admit the dimmer switch on the left steering wheel sticky- out-thing isn't bad. Over the years I've more or less trained myself to

It might not be bad but it's in the wrong place!! And all the
blonds get their foot caught in the steering wheel. :P

Wait until you get in a car with the rear window wiper switch is on the
right sticky-out thing: accidentally pull on it while rotating to
activate the (front) windshield wipers!!

ignore certain things and keep my eyes on the road, then glance to adjust/turn on/turn off whatever when the traffic conditions allow.

I like having controls I can grope, so I can find and manipulate
them not only without looking away from the road, but also in the
dark when the dash backlight is set fairly dim. (Old truck, radio backlight went off before the dash backlight did, probably by
design in case someone found it distracting.)

I prefer dim dash lighting also: to me matches the outside darkeness and
not blinded by the light of the dash nor squinting in the darkness of
the road.

More important to know when the volume control of the radio is than the tuner buttons ==> quick left spin of the volume to cut the sound, worry about the station selection later.

Nothing wrong with a dial and buttons for station selection!!
Perfectly gropable!!

Pushbutton now, and probably touch switched on the latest and 'greatest'
now.

KM> Well, at least PCLOS only takes five minutes to install, and two
KM> clicks.
I don't recall how long the basic Ubuntu (so 18.04) takes -- maybe five
or ten minutes but I almosrt always have the installation do the update while it's at it, and obviously that adds to the installation time.

Fedora install time and behavior wasn't bad, but Debian took a
good hour and needed lots of babysitting. I never again want to
hear how Windows installer rudely stops and demands input every
two minutes...

Yet it will reformat a perfectly good USB HDD plugged in to it without
asking!

Also makes a lot of difference if from a DVD or thumbdrive -- thumbdrive sooo much faster, just I sort of miss seeing the blinkenlicht telling me something is happening during those periods of "I'm thinking" and
nothing happening on the screen.

This!! especially when the USB3 port is hidden in the back...

Which is why I added a pair of USB 3.0 ports to the front panel.

KM> own Win10-by-itself runs much better. I don't understand this. Oh
KM> well, set default boot to 2008R2, and ignore Win10. Damn thing
KM> now apparently rewrites the boot sector whenever you switch OSs,
KM> which does not strike me as a Good Idea. In the olden daze it
KM> just pointed at whichever one you picked.)
Yes, overwriting the boot sector sounds a little dangerous as if
something were to go wrong nothing to switch back to. I'm thinking of should a power failure occur and the UPS not kick in, or not for a sufficient time.

Did I gripe about that again today? It still annoys me. <g>

As it should! Some things are just stupid!

Oh, the fun never ends... official Lenovo guy in the forum says,
how is OS Optimized Defaults set? Disabled. Let's try Enabled.
INSTANT BRICK. CMOS reset did not improve matters. Well, turns
out that setting disables absolutely everything legacy (which he
said means it shipped with Win8 -- uh, why does it *HATE*
Win8??), AND IS STICKY across CMOS resets, so it played dead til
I found it a newer vidcard that does UEFI, and could change it
back. *whew* (And if that's how you feel, you can keep that card.
Geesh. What do you mean you don't have a driver for it? It's the
same card that was in Lightfoot when that Win7 was installed that
you're cloned from; it already HAS the durn driver, you ninny!
Look over there. See? It's right there. Geesh!!)

Wasn't in the path. :( Yes, rather annoying when something used to
work and no longer works just because of an upgrade.

KM> Normally anymore I don't do multiboot but rather use hotswap bays
KM> and laptop HDs, one per OS... but the Dells have no bays at all,
KM> so the experimental installs had to share one well-buried HD.
LIS in an earlier message I wasn't too impressed with purchasing Dell as a refurbished machine for my use: found it difficult to pin down the
specifics on a particular machine being considered. Not saying they
aren't a good machine, just for my needs not a good fit. I pretty much
need those empty bays and motherboard slots.

Yeah, me too. The no-space systems are fine for using like a
tethered laptop, but are not suitable for my everyday -- solely
because of the lack of expansion space.

Yup. As per usually that 'all depends' kicks in. What's right for one
user isn't right for this one.

I've got a laptop (OK, they call it a notebook) which has a problem
staying connected via wireless. Could install a new WiFi card, which
wouldn't be a bad idea as the current one only does 2.4 GHz, but I don't
know for certain the card is the problem, and I'm not going to be a
happy camper if the problem is somewhere else and now I have a dedicated
card which can do 2.4 and 5 GHz but is still dropping out. Decided to
get a dongle with USB 3.0 capabilities -- at least can be used with
other devices easily.

Well, I could use two laptop drives in the single 3.5" internal
bay, and an NVMe on an adapter in the 4x PCI3 slot, but... since
I have other options, why?? still inflexible once you put the lid
back on.

Duct tape and 3D printing come to mind! <g>

Now that it's -- oh let's just say 'initiated' -- I can fill those
empty 2 TB?!

It's easy! Just find an FTP and download the whole thing.
ibiblio.org would make a nice starter kit, and then you could
move on to archive.org. :D :D :D

Ok, thanks!

KM> Yeah, I have no patience anymore. Either it works easily or out
KM> it goes.
Time is money! LIS I've done the same over the years with my various

If time flies when you throw a clock, I want to come back as DB
Cooper.

Assuming he was able to spend his money!

Windows and Ubuntus. Not a stopper if the utility needs to have a few
other utilities added to run, but I also need for the utility to be
fairly easy to use.

Yeah. I just don't want to do the hoop jumping anymore. If I have
to print out the instructions, I'm probably on my way elsewhere.

I'll print some just because for me it is easier to follow along in
print if I'm learning, especially something "tweaky". Thinking along
the lines of "finger davenport@graph.no" which gives a weather forecast
to terminal. As-is displays in Celsius, adding a ^ displays in
Fahrenheit, etc. Sometimes easier to print and make notes, sometimes
just as easy to run two Terminal with one displaying Help and the other
to experiment.

Snipping rest or I'll never get this sent...
"Did you write the Great American Novel?"
"No, just an average reply on the BBS."

Really! I'm showing 491 lines, which I think would be about 8 pages if printed out -- just a phamphlet!





¯ ®
¯ BarryMartin3@ ®
¯ @MyMetronet.NET ®
¯ ®
¯ (Humans know what ®
¯ to remove.) ®

... ERROR: Computer is way too old for this nonsense.
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47
þ wcECHO 4.2 ÷ ILink: The Safe BBS þ Bettendorf, IA

--- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462
* Origin: ILink: CFBBS | cfbbs.no-ip.com | 856-933-7096 (454:1/1)

BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

I'm not snipping anything here it took like 11 screens just to get to
reply, you guys have the record on ILink for longest thread.

Woah! Barry!!

Hey, I actually needed that RAM the other day.. haven't quite given up
on the D20 board that died of a bent CPU pin (worked fine with one CPU;
put in the second and PFFZT! bent pin was very subtle, can't blame the seller for missing it. RMA'd and refunded and returned, and then he
refused the shipment so I got the board back, a clever way for him to
avoid paying return postage on a "free return".) Anyway with your RAM it
at least powers on, tho so far haven't got any further. Need
higher-powered magnifier and better light so I can see if there's
something else making contact in there that shouldn't be. At least the power on indicates it's not shorted to the point of totally dead!!

> > > KM> These durn two-legged stools....
> > > I wonder if that's why it was so cheap?!
> > KM> 30% off!!
> > If a three-legged stool closer to one-third!
> KM> I left a stump, in case it falls over. :)
> That should supply some stability! ...Just might not be too convenient
> to lug around.
KM> No worries, I'll just cut the other legs to match....
KM> ...why am I sitting on the ground??
I think it's "measure twice, cut once", not the other way around!

I cut it three times, and it's STILL too short!!

KM> How fast is fiber, really?
KM> Test here:
KM> https://testmy.net/

Looks pretty good to me: have the 200 Mbps service. D/l reported as 204 Mbps, u/l 146.6 Mbps. So the u/l is a bit sluggish but could be due to factors other than them.

Your idea of sluggish is a lot faster than mine... on a good day,
downhill with a whip and a tailwind and someone out behind helping push,
I get 5.2Mbps down, 0.8Mbps up.

KM> Mine is embarrassing...

Not as bad as my ATT DSL maxxed out at 2.5Mbps Down and 0.4 up I think I
had faster U/l speeds with a 56K modem.

Complainers @ 200Mbps, I hear it from my neighbors on nextdoor.com
always complaining about Spectrum speeds dropping out I can't do this I
can't do that all while I zip along running many servers off my 2.5Mbps connection, bunch of milinial(sp) whiners.

I pay a whopping $5/mo for DSL and $9 for Landline from ATT, I could go
with their $10/mo for faster but it wasn't DSL and I didn't want to
change everything over for 10Mbps and then not have it work with
bbs,etc. I used to pay AT&T $50 for the same service but I took them up
on their low income special, $50/mo was way to much for what I got.

You're also "out in the boonies" IIRC.

Only a mile from town and 15,000 feet from the junction box... tho yeah,
I used to be where to see civilization, you needed a good telescope!

Did receive a fix yesterday morning and so now on to other issues! I
have been using some fixed addresses just to make certain devices easier to find. The MythTV Backend sort of needs to be at one address so the Frontend devices can find it. The NAS also pretty much has to be at one place.

Can't you assign it one address on your router? I can do that on mine
and it only has half a brain cell. (I don't bother, tho, cuz nothing
here needs it. Also it tends to keep the same one per device anyway.)

this computer will play-buffer-play-buffer.... Haven't done a mega-d/l yet. Could see where might still have a buffering problem if the d/l doesn't share nicely.

He went from donkey to jet plane and complains about the speed of
freight. :D :D :D

[Speaking of freight: we're on day 12 for a priority parcel from the Bay area, tho it's finally made it to Billings... 9 days for the previous
two from CA... methinks CA's mail system is totally busted.]

KM> Oh, for general errors I had "No no no yer doin' it all wrong!"
KM> But Argo would never dream of doing a BSOD. Argo was 100%
KM> well-behaved Win95. :)
And then they broke it. :(

Yeah... did I mention Win10 deciding to nuke the partition table on a USB-attached HD? I *think* what happened is that it saw the older
version of NTFS, said gee, that needs updating, and ... no more
partition table. Win10 is now closing fast on the #1 spot on my $#!T
List, and will never again be trusted near data it doesn't own.

Weirdly, out of six identical Win10 installs on 6 laptops (which
recently fell on my head, Win10 and all -- two matched i5 and four
matched i7, so by my standards quite modern!) ... three behave as if they're activated (they're not), and let me do whatever I want, and
three whine that they're not activated and refuse to play nice. Guess
which three were quickly replaced. <g> I do need to find some SODIMM 4GB
or 8GB DDR3 sticks, as they're all sadly under-RAM'd.

[I've seen this before. I think it's a bug in the hash that Windows uses
to create a unique machine identifier, so about half the time it thinks it's activated even when it's not -- it still says it's not on the Properties screen, but acts like it is everywhere else. I think because
it uses essentially random stuff like the hardware serials/model
numbers, about half the time it hits a hash that says to it, "Activated" where it counts. Such installs are portable and will not complain about
new hardware. Also tells me they're probably using a flawed RNG that has gaps in its randomness, hence the bug.]

Didn't like some quirks of the latest PCLinuxOS/KDE release, so finally
got around to making a live ISO from my good setup (it's nice to have
all my tweaks and software already in place). So one laptop now has
that. Runs very well and doesn't annoy me every five minutes.

I think another will have PCLOS/Trinity.

A little experimenting on old and older hardware informed me that PCLOS runs really well on about 2.2GHz 2-core and above; below that it loses
its snappiness, but isn't yet laggy. So now in the interests of Science
I'm looking for the slowest x64 CPU in existence, so I can test my
theory that it's still at least usable on barrel-scrapings. (Conversely, Mageia and Ubuntu are both laggy on the i7-3.7GHz with 32GB RAM.)

Actually, Westworld's original CPU might qualify... it would run Mint17, but not well. PCLOS has a bit better performance than Mint.

> KM> rivet into the spots. Really good case otherwise, but lordy,
> KM> gamers and their desire to show off their guts...
> <chuckle> Look! The fans are spinning really-really fast! I've got
KM> And the colored LEDs are blinking a lot!!
Oh good! I thought I was having one of those spells!

Silly Blinky Tricks: don't have a 2-pin speaker for the Thinkstation
board. Do have a 2-pin LED, and remember someone using an LED instead of
a speaker, for a deaf user. It works!

[What idiot uses oo pins for the speaker, instead of oxxo like the whole rest of the world??]

KM> nothing is really *badly* made. Strong enough to use for a
KM> ladder, too. (And they come new with enough screws for 3 PCs.)
I don't think I'd attempt to use any of my cases as a step stool/ladder!

Oh, you can quite safely use these old metal RaidMax cases as a ladder!

[Razor Case]

KM> exposed edges. (In fact I still have one in the basement, sitting
KM> empty.)

Empty except with your blood! ..You really should have refrigerated it for a potential transfusion!

Haha... yeah, if I ever use that case, I'm gonna name it Vampire.

I haven't had the Case of a Thousand Knives but have had some which
should have come wth a couple of Band Aids.

Yeah, and that's worse. When you KNOW everything is sharp, you're forewarned. It's the surprise random sharp spot that will get you when
you didn't expect it. Seen that too, makes unhappy Ky and blood on the components.

> KM> Likely so... more fins uses more metal and costs more!
> "We want profit!" "We want something that works at a reasonable price!"
KM> Gee, I wonder who said what...
The shoplifters?!

THAT must be what the looting is about!!

KM> Well, I used to build and maintain custom systems, and was the
KM> hardware dude for the SoCal user grope, but haven't done any of
KM> that in about ten years now. So now it's all just for me. Mine!
KM> MINE!!
Probably because a lot of people use their cell phones and tablets as if they were computers cut into that market.

Something like 60% of the market is now cells and tablets. And PCs
became more and more disposable. So yeah, not much market anymore.

>Plus your dogs aren't nearly

as demanding!

Haha, yeah, customers complain when you lock them in the kennel. Tho
I've been known to use the Rex Carr method on dumb owners (do it like I told you, or I will hit YOU with the whip. Works amazingly well!)

KM> And Fireball is a Xeon, so having already named a Xeon Xorro,
KM> next thing to come into my head was Fireball XL-5, and there ya
KM> go. :D

Much more fanciful names than what I'm been coming up with. This one's "NZXT" because of the name on the case. A main computer downstairs is

Yeah, that's how Dink and Wedgie got their names -- DNK on the case, and WedgTek on the case.

"ThermalTake". And I have a case for a project that's been on hold
from Raijintek - oh poop!

It's better if you can pronounce 'em...

Frontend computer in the Sitting Room (Den --
no idea why we're using an old term) called 'BrokenTab' because one of
the tabs holding on the heatsink broke off.

What will you call it if you ever replace the mount? :D

KM> design problem.) This does tend to cause momentary alarm... is
KM> also why wood stove not used.
So when you go to the doctor's office they ask how many cartons a day
you smoke?!

Haha... if I were using it, I'd probably get that!

As for the smoke coming in to the house, hmm: I like the name of this site! https://www.gratewalloffire.com/Fireplace-smoke_ep_54-1.html

Good one :)

Anyway, a few web hits are indicated blocked flues - usually creosote, though could be a closed damer (who installed the knob the wrong way?!). When we had the free-standing fireplace removed when building the
addition the guys found a bird's nest in the flue!

Ain't blocked. Is tall enough. Still misbehaves even with hot fire and a window hanging open. Tends to go down to nothing and make way too much creosote. Something designed wrong somewhere.... actually I wonder if it might be that the rain cap needs much bigger openings to cope with the
8" pipe.

KM> something. Seriously, would you like the speedometer to only
KM> display a light when you're over 60mph?? And what's with all the
KM> touch screens that you have to TAKE YOUR EYES OFF THE ROAD to
KM> use??
<chuckle> Yeah! Would also seem even if the dash display is projected
on to the windshield one is also focusing and effectively looking at the inside of the windshield and not the road beyond.

Oh lordy, there's one to keep everyone from looking on down the road any further than your own hood.

KM> That's another reason looking for older for the winter 4WD,
KM> probably 1996 or before... I like knobs, ON THE DASH. And the
KM> dimmer switch on the floor, as the gods intended. (Okay, so
KM> that's 1991 or before...)

Well I'll admit the dimmer switch on the left steering wheel sticky- out-thing isn't bad. Over the years I've more or less trained myself to

It might not be bad but it's in the wrong place!! And all the blonds get their foot caught in the steering wheel. :P

ignore certain things and keep my eyes on the road, then glance to adjust/turn on/turn off whatever when the traffic conditions allow.

I like having controls I can grope, so I can find and manipulate them
not only without looking away from the road, but also in the dark when
the dash backlight is set fairly dim. (Old truck, radio backlight went
off before the dash backlight did, probably by design in case someone
found it distracting.)

More important to know when the volume control of the radio is than the tuner buttons ==> quick left spin of the volume to cut the sound, worry about the station selection later.

Nothing wrong with a dial and buttons for station selection!! Perfectly gropable!!

KM> -- Jan. after a recent update, May out of the box. Finally
KM> installed MyLiveGTK and made an ISO of my good install on the
That's where it would be beneficial for me to know how to create stuff, but....

MyLiveGTK is pretty simple. Exclude unwanted locations (such as your
backup and ISO storage directories... can you can infinitely recursive?
I knew you could!), and it includes everything else and cleans up after itself. It's slow but works pretty well. Voila, an hour or two later a custom install disk, with everything (including /Home) intact.

KM> Well, at least PCLOS only takes five minutes to install, and two
KM> clicks.

I don't recall how long the basic Ubuntu (so 18.04) takes -- maybe five
or ten minutes but I almosrt always have the installation do the update while it's at it, and obviously that adds to the installation time.

Fedora install time and behavior wasn't bad, but Debian took a good hour and needed lots of babysitting. I never again want to hear how Windows installer rudely stops and demands input every two minutes...

Also makes a lot of difference if from a DVD or thumbdrive -- thumbdrive sooo much faster, just I sort of miss seeing the blinkenlicht telling me something is happening during those periods of "I'm thinking" and
nothing happening on the screen.

This!! especially when the USB3 port is hidden in the back...

KM> own Win10-by-itself runs much better. I don't understand this. Oh
KM> well, set default boot to 2008R2, and ignore Win10. Damn thing
KM> now apparently rewrites the boot sector whenever you switch OSs,
KM> which does not strike me as a Good Idea. In the olden daze it
KM> just pointed at whichever one you picked.)

Yes, overwriting the boot sector sounds a little dangerous as if
something were to go wrong nothing to switch back to. I'm thinking of should a power failure occur and the UPS not kick in, or not for a sufficient time.

Did I gripe about that again today? It still annoys me. <g>

KM> So now Fireball has working Windows 7/2008R2/10, and one working
KM> Linux, so at least it's functional across a reasonable spectrum,
KM> if not ideal.

But still not XP64, which would be better for its intended use.

BUT! The Lenovo guy found the XP install guide, and looks like the
problem might be it needs the Storport driver (same one as for NVMe support), which has to be slipstreamed into the ISO. Would probably also fix it for the HP laptops that refused to play nice (XP errored out the same way).

That should provide some fun experimental stuff for you!

Oh, the fun never ends... official Lenovo guy in the forum says, how is
OS Optimized Defaults set? Disabled. Let's try Enabled. INSTANT BRICK.
CMOS reset did not improve matters. Well, turns out that setting
disables absolutely everything legacy (which he said means it shipped
with Win8 -- uh, why does it *HATE* Win8??), AND IS STICKY across CMOS resets, so it played dead til I found it a newer vidcard that does UEFI, and could change it back. *whew* (And if that's how you feel, you can
keep that card. Geesh. What do you mean you don't have a driver for it? It's the same card that was in Lightfoot when that Win7 was installed
that you're cloned from; it already HAS the durn driver, you ninny! Look over there. See? It's right there. Geesh!!)

KM> Normally anymore I don't do multiboot but rather use hotswap bays
KM> and laptop HDs, one per OS... but the Dells have no bays at all,
KM> so the experimental installs had to share one well-buried HD.

LIS in an earlier message I wasn't too impressed with purchasing Dell as a refurbished machine for my use: found it difficult to pin down the specifics on a particular machine being considered. Not saying they aren't a good machine, just for my needs not a good fit. I pretty much need those empty bays and motherboard slots.

Yeah, me too. The no-space systems are fine for using like a tethered laptop, but are not suitable for my everyday -- solely because of the
lack of expansion space.

Well, I could use two laptop drives in the single 3.5" internal bay, and
an NVMe on an adapter in the 4x PCI3 slot, but... since I have other options, why?? still inflexible once you put the lid back on.

Now that it's -- oh let's just say 'initiated' -- I can fill those
empty 2 TB?!

It's easy! Just find an FTP and download the whole thing. ibiblio.org
would make a nice starter kit, and then you could move on to
archive.org. :D :D :D

KM> Patches included for Win7/8/10.
KM> XP64 and Server2003 are basically the same OS.
Any advantage in running the Server version over the XP version, especially on a virtual nachine?

Probably not. Server runs more admin type things and needs more
resources. I've not run 2003 but I use XP64 on Bullet and love it.

Rather pronounced with Win7 vs SVR2008R2 -- server uses 4x the RAM. (But
on a high-RAM system, no worries, and interface is less annoying.)

KM> Yeah, I have no patience anymore. Either it works easily or out
KM> it goes.
Time is money! LIS I've done the same over the years with my various

If time flies when you throw a clock, I want to come back as DB Cooper.

Windows and Ubuntus. Not a stopper if the utility needs to have a few other utilities added to run, but I also need for the utility to be
fairly easy to use.

Yeah. I just don't want to do the hoop jumping anymore. If I have to
print out the instructions, I'm probably on my way elsewhere.

Snipping rest or I'll never get this sent...

"Did you write the Great American Novel?"
"No, just an average reply on the BBS."

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LEE GREEN wrote:

BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

I'm not snipping anything here it took like 11 screens just to get to
reply, you guys have the record on ILink for longest thread.

LOL, we are nothing if not prolix... :D

Your idea of sluggish is a lot faster than mine... on a good day,
downhill with a whip and a tailwind and someone out behind helping push,
I get 5.2Mbps down, 0.8Mbps up.

KM> Mine is embarrassing...

Not as bad as my ATT DSL maxxed out at 2.5Mbps Down and 0.4 up I think I
had faster U/l speeds with a 56K modem.

Not exactly stellar, but better than the fixed wireless that was the
best I could do out in the desert (1.2Mbps down, not enough up to
notice). Then again I remember 2400 baud dialup, not so fondly... tho
Wedgie still has that modem ($5 at DAK's going out of business sale).

Complainers @ 200Mbps, I hear it from my neighbors on nextdoor.com
always complaining about Spectrum speeds dropping out I can't do this I

Geez. What's to complain about? I do wonder if sometimes the connections overrun the capability of the equipment, especially with WiFi, and that
causes dropout.

can't do that all while I zip along running many servers off my 2.5Mbps connection, bunch of milinial(sp) whiners.

We old timers know how to optimize! :D

I pay a whopping $5/mo for DSL and $9 for Landline from ATT, I could go
with their $10/mo for faster but it wasn't DSL and I didn't want to

Nice! wish I could get it so cheap.

change everything over for 10Mbps and then not have it work with
bbs,etc. I used to pay AT&T $50 for the same service but I took them up
on their low income special, $50/mo was way to much for what I got.

I pay $45/mo and only because I griped at CenturyLink until they offered
me a please-don't-leave special. :( AT&T doesn't offer service here,
other than cell, for which Verizon is better (there I pay anything I
care to above $5/mo., used up at a rate of $2 for each day I use the
phone, unlimited minutes.)
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LEE GREEN wrote to KY MOFFET <=-

BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

I'm not snipping anything here it took like 11 screens just to
get to reply, you guys have the record on ILink for longest
thread.

When you're good you're good! <g> (Should be in-line replies -- know
some are a little difficult to determine from the quoteback characters.)

Your idea of sluggish is a lot faster than mine... on a good day,
downhill with a whip and a tailwind and someone out behind helping push,
I get 5.2Mbps down, 0.8Mbps up.

KM> Mine is embarrassing...

Not as bad as my ATT DSL maxxed out at 2.5Mbps Down and 0.4 up I
think I had faster U/l speeds with a 56K modem.

Quite possibly! Part of my frustration is being outright lied to by
various CenturyLink levels. At the beginning noise on the line which
caused my DSL to die. The techs were getting one set of test numbers on
their dial-in site, another on the line in the basement. As they
disconnected the house pretty much means isn't my equipment but theirs
(ended up literally six months later they moved my connection at the
Central Office to a different computer - problem solved!).

Complainers @ 200Mbps, I hear it from my neighbors on
nextdoor.com always complaining about Spectrum speeds dropping
out I can't do this I can't do that all while I zip along running
many servers off my 2.5Mbps connection, bunch of milinial(sp)
whiners.

Once they fixed the line minimal problems here, unless there was an
electric issue -- apparently no/failed UPS. There was some throttling
for a while at night.

I pay a whopping $5/mo for DSL and $9 for Landline from ATT, I
could go with their $10/mo for faster but it wasn't DSL and I
didn't want to change everything over for 10Mbps and then not
have it work with bbs,etc. I used to pay AT&T $50 for the same
service but I took them up on their low income special, $50/mo
was way to much for what I got.

The 7 Mbps asynchronous DSL here is a for-certain $40 plus taxes and
other miscellaneous fees tacked on. The 200 Mbps fiber optic is right
now about $10 more -- it will go up next year about ten dollars as I'm
on a special.



... I did find another "LG>" further down but didn't see a comment --
will end this and check in the original.


¯ ®
¯ BarryMartin3@ ®
¯ @MyMetronet.NET ®
¯ ®
¯ (Humans know what ®
¯ to remove.) ®

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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

KM> Hey, I actually needed that RAM the other day.. haven't quite
KM> given up on the D20 board that died of a bent CPU pin (worked
KM> fine with one CPU; put in the second and PFFZT! bent pin was very
KM> subtle, can't blame the seller for missing it. RMA'd and refunded
KM> and returned, and then he refused the shipment so I got the board
KM> back, a clever way for him to avoid paying return postage on a
KM> "free return".) Anyway with your RAM it at least powers on, tho
KM> so far haven't got any further. Need higher-powered magnifier and
KM> better light so I can see if there's something else making
KM> contact in there that shouldn't be. At least the power on
KM> indicates it's not shorted to the point of totally dead!!

Well good on the RAM, bad on the vendor -- he authorized the return with
the RMA and then refused, so not honouring his own RMA?!

No, no, no...

Discover problem, do RMA, get free-return label from eBay, send it back.
Get refund. Thought that was the end of it. A few days later here comes
the board, marked "refused".

So he got proof that it was bad (because I sent it back) but he didn't
have to pay the return postage (because he refused it).

As for the finding the contact (or possibly non-contact) point -- good

Need higher magnification!

luck!! Sort of reminds me of the problem with inserting a USB device
here and the machine locks up -- occurred yesterday and I used the
built-in USB 2.0 front panel port, usually the USB 3.0 add-on front
panel. Have to go back to that project, But First!

Yeah, tho think yours is different sort of flaw...

> I think it's "measure twice, cut once", not the other way around!
KM> I cut it three times, and it's STILL too short!!
But is it getting better?

No, but the pile of sawdust is getting bigger!

further away one is from the Central Office the slower the service. I'm around 1500 _feet_ from the CO. Depends also on available service: this neighbourhood has the options of 7 Mbps and 10 Mbps.

Yeah, yours is practically underfoot!

<start a bit of a rant> And received a postcard (!) yesterday advising
me the DSL service will be increased $6 per month. No reason, no
promise of better nor faster service. Just 'because'. </end>

Supposedly CenturyLink is a lifetime price... didn't specify whose
lifetime... and today only getting 4.0Mbps down and power cycle didn't
improve matters, but did take a couple tries to reconnect. Grrr...

> KM> Mine is embarrassing...
> You're also "out in the boonies" IIRC.
KM> Only a mile from town and 15,000 feet from the junction box...
KM> tho yeah, I used to be where to see civilization, you needed a
KM> good telescope!

So slowly accustoming yourself to civilization! <g> Though

It's embarrassing <g>

'civilization' is a relative term.....

Heh heh... yes, compared to the Amazon jungle or northeastern Siberia, everywhere I've ever lived is positively urban. :O

Several months ago had the CenturyLink technicians out here for noise on
the line (could hear) and eventually a dead line. Somewhere one of the
two wires broke -- they could semi-pinpoint the location of the break
with their testers: was in one of two junction boxes side-by-side two
blocks from the house. Could either try to find (apparently the boxes
are a mess) or move me to a different pair. I don't really care which
wires I use as long as it works.

Had similar problem... flaws they could tell were there but not where,
and fixing this didn't fix that... their guy finally gave up and just
rewired the house, AND buried new cable out to the street.

KM> Can't you assign it one address on your router? I can do that on
KM> mine and it only has half a brain cell. (I don't bother, tho, cuz
KM> nothing here needs it. Also it tends to keep the same one per
KM> device anyway.)

Do have it all updated. The main problem was the DSL Router used
192.168.0.x and the fiber optic router 192.168.4.x -- sort of like right

Who ever heard of using .4.x ??!

building, wrong floor. Did call tech support - the gentleman I talked
said he was the one who brought over the router when he as hired (so 'up there', not a troubleshooting manual reader); we did try a few things
but not able to change the IP address range from 4 to 0.

Yeah, usually that's hardwired.

sudo ip addr add 192.168.0.199/24 broadcast 192.168.0.199 dev enp1s0

This will give the 'working' computer with the 192.168.4.x address
another one at 192.168.0.199 so it can see that LAN. Change the device
as required (per ifconfig).

My brain hurts. I'll just let the switch handle it... :D

KM> He went from donkey to jet plane and complains about the speed of
KM> freight. :D :D :D

I like whine with my cheese!!

Swiss? :)

KM> [Speaking of freight: we're on day 12 for a priority parcel from
KM> the Bay area, tho it's finally made it to Billings... 9 days for
KM> the previous two from CA... methinks CA's mail system is totally
KM> busted.]

Overnight -- you didn't specify which night!!

Apparently not!

KM> Yeah... did I mention Win10 deciding to nuke the partition table
KM> on a USB-attached HD? I *think* what happened is that it saw the
I remember you having that problem. Nothing like an OS just assuming
stuff! Yeah, it would be on The List real quick!

Yeah. STOP FIXING STUFF ALREADY!!!

KM> I do need to find some SODIMM 4GB or 8GB DDR3 sticks, as they're
KM> all sadly under-RAM'd.
I know I don't have any laptop-sized memory 'in stock'.

Heh... neither do I. Well, from this century, anyway.

KM> A little experimenting on old and older hardware informed me that
KM> PCLOS runs really well on about 2.2GHz 2-core and above; below
KM> that it loses its snappiness, but isn't yet laggy. So now in the
KM> interests of Science I'm looking for the slowest x64 CPU in
KM> existence, so I can test my theory that it's still at least
KM> usable on barrel-scrapings. (Conversely, Mageia and Ubuntu are
KM> both laggy on the i7-3.7GHz with 32GB RAM.)

So fast is slow, slow is acceptable....

It's all relative! :)

KM> Silly Blinky Tricks: don't have a 2-pin speaker for the
KM> Thinkstation board. Do have a 2-pin LED, and remember someone
KM> using an LED instead of a speaker, for a deaf user. It works!
Makes sense! As long as the 'impendence' of the LED is within a range acceptable to the speaker driver circuit.

It's just 5v power. And it only knows on/off -- all the speaker has to
do is beep, and will do so every time power comes through the pins. And
so does the LED. Well, blink. If it beeped I'd be alarmed. <g>

KM> [What idiot uses oo pins for the speaker, instead of oxxo like
KM> the whole rest of the world??]

For a speaker-speaker oo would make sense: no polarity. For a piezo-
speaker ox-o would make more sense to make it easier than to guess the polarity.

When it doesn't bloody matter, just make it match everyone else! Some do
3 pins like that, but one is a dummy pin. And pointless if the speaker's doohickey doesn't also have a blocked hole.

KM> [Razor Case]
> KM> exposed edges. (In fact I still have one in the basement, sitting
> KM> empty.)
> Empty except with your blood! ..You really should have refrigerated it
> for a potential transfusion!
KM> Haha... yeah, if I ever use that case, I'm gonna name it Vampire.

Black, with red trim!

Haha, if only... sadly, it's plain beige. Maybe some spray paint...

KM> blood on the components.
So that begs the qyuestion: can dried blood be used as a electrical insulator? And what's it R thermal factor?

Probably not... might contain enough iron to be micro-conductive. R is probably about the same as 'thermal grease', toothpaste, and vegemite
(no real difference).

Only so-called thermal grease I've seen that's actually better than just filling any air gaps with literally any handy goo (toothpaste, vegemite, spit...) is copper-based. Should get some more of that....

> > KM> Likely so... more fins uses more metal and costs more!
> > "We want profit!" "We want something that works at a reasonable price!"
> KM> Gee, I wonder who said what...
> The shoplifters?!
KM> THAT must be what the looting is about!!
I thought it was the Hokey-Pokey!

If only they'd end up in the Pokey!

> Probably because a lot of people use their cell phones and tablets as if
> they were computers cut into that market.
KM> Something like 60% of the market is now cells and tablets. And
KM> PCs became more and more disposable. So yeah, not much market
KM> anymore.
I can see their convenience. OTOH I'd hate to be doing a lot of reading
on a six or seven inch screen. ...Typing a reply like this one - ha!

Well, most people only use a PC, and therefore a phone, for internet...
which nowadays mostly means watching Youtube and trawling Facebook.

KM> Yeah, that's how Dink and Wedgie got their names -- DNK on the
KM> case, and WedgTek on the case.
I don't feel quite so bad for my lack of name creativity!

Trouble is, whatever a person thinks of first invariably sticks...

Right now I have Confusion. Cash is doing Silver's old job, using
Silver's old HDs. Silver is now called Tarnish, but at the moment has
Cash's old PCLOS in it (which fortunately doesn't call itself Cash, so
no network-names conflict). Silver's old case with new guts is now
called Silver II, but presently has Lightfoot's Win7 in it (Lightfoot
being semi-retired).

> "ThermalTake". And I have a case for a project that's been on hold
> from Raijintek - oh poop!
KM> It's better if you can pronounce 'em...

Maybe that will be it's name: "Unpronounceable" or maybe "Mumble"!

Hahaha yes... just don't complain when it doesn't come when called!

> Frontend computer in the Sitting Room (Den --
> no idea why we're using an old term) called 'BrokenTab' because one of
> the tabs holding on the heatsink broke off.
KM> What will you call it if you ever replace the mount? :D
"Fixed"?

Sounds good to me!

> KM> That's another reason looking for older for the winter 4WD,
> KM> probably 1996 or before... I like knobs, ON THE DASH. And the
> KM> dimmer switch on the floor, as the gods intended. (Okay, so
> KM> that's 1991 or before...)
> Well I'll admit the dimmer switch on the left steering wheel sticky-
> out-thing isn't bad. Over the years I've more or less trained myself to
KM> It might not be bad but it's in the wrong place!! And all the
KM> blonds get their foot caught in the steering wheel. :P

Wait until you get in a car with the rear window wiper switch is on the
right sticky-out thing: accidentally pull on it while rotating to
activate the (front) windshield wipers!!

I remember first time I drove one with switches on the stalk... could
not for the life of me figure out how to turn on the headlights or run
the wipers!!

KM> Fedora install time and behavior wasn't bad, but Debian took a
KM> good hour and needed lots of babysitting. I never again want to
KM> hear how Windows installer rudely stops and demands input every
KM> two minutes...

Yet it will reformat a perfectly good USB HDD plugged in to it without asking!

Well, it was perfectly good before Win10 got its mitts on it!

KM> Look over there. See? It's right there. Geesh!!)

Wasn't in the path. :( Yes, rather annoying when something used to
work and no longer works just because of an upgrade.

Such as... apparently Fireball has no IDE support. Add-on card is seen
but not heard... won't boot with IDE anything attached. Did finally get
XP64 installed, but had to switch SATA to IDE mode (then why do we not
support IDE HDs?), and apparently it required part of a failed install
to be there first. I swear it finally installed by sheer failure to
remember that it had decided it was impossible.

And now need to find Intel C600 SAS driver for XP64 (and for Win7)...
Lenovo's provided SAS driver is for the wrong chip (LSI, which is not
what it is). PCLOS found it just fine... well, it is an old chip.

I've got a laptop (OK, they call it a notebook) which has a problem
staying connected via wireless. Could install a new WiFi card, which wouldn't be a bad idea as the current one only does 2.4 GHz, but I don't
know for certain the card is the problem, and I'm not going to be a
happy camper if the problem is somewhere else and now I have a dedicated
card which can do 2.4 and 5 GHz but is still dropping out. Decided to
get a dongle with USB 3.0 capabilities -- at least can be used with
other devices easily.

I have a few of those $3 USB WiFi dongles... if you get 'em with RealTek
chip often you don't even need to drag out the driver disk. Never had
any trouble with 'em staying connected. Onboard network chips fail
fairly often (I've had to replace 3 of 'em with cards) so why wouldn't
the notebook's WiFi card possibly fail?

KM> Well, I could use two laptop drives in the single 3.5" internal
KM> bay, and an NVMe on an adapter in the 4x PCI3 slot, but... since
KM> I have other options, why?? still inflexible once you put the lid
KM> back on.

Duct tape and 3D printing come to mind! <g>

There's the next generation in PC cases!!

> KM> Yeah, I have no patience anymore. Either it works easily or out
> KM> it goes.
> Time is money! LIS I've done the same over the years with my various
KM> If time flies when you throw a clock, I want to come back as DB
KM> Cooper.
Assuming he was able to spend his money!

Well, they never found the money... and I don't have it... :(

KM> Snipping rest or I'll never get this sent...
KM> "Did you write the Great American Novel?"
KM> "No, just an average reply on the BBS."

Really! I'm showing 491 lines, which I think would be about 8 pages if printed out -- just a phamphlet!

A mere short story.!

.. ERROR: Computer is way too old for this nonsense.

ERROR: User is way too old for this nonsense.
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Hi Ky!

KM> Hey, I actually needed that RAM the other day.. haven't quite
KM> given up on the D20 board that died of a bent CPU pin (worked
KM> fine with one CPU; put in the second and PFFZT! bent pin was very
KM> subtle, can't blame the seller for missing it. RMA'd and refunded
KM> and returned, and then he refused the shipment so I got the board
KM> back, a clever way for him to avoid paying return postage on a
KM> "free return".) Anyway with your RAM it at least powers on, tho
KM> so far haven't got any further. Need higher-powered magnifier and
KM> better light so I can see if there's something else making
KM> contact in there that shouldn't be. At least the power on
KM> indicates it's not shorted to the point of totally dead!!
Well good on the RAM, bad on the vendor -- he authorized the return with
the RMA and then refused, so not honouring his own RMA?!

No, no, no...
Discover problem, do RMA, get free-return label from eBay, send
it back. Get refund. Thought that was the end of it. A few days
later here comes the board, marked "refused".
So he got proof that it was bad (because I sent it back) but he
didn't have to pay the return postage (because he refused it).

Sort of something like when a household appliance fails and the
manufacturer just wants the cord sent back. If the cord is integrated (hardwired) then if the consumer snips at the attached end essentially disables the unit. OTOH if snips a foot away could splice in a new
cord, but the manufacturer measures the cord and finds doesn't meet the
RMA requirments, so no refund. ...This does sort of make sense with
your RMA: he got proof of the bad part.

As for the finding the contact (or possibly non-contact) point -- good

Need higher magnification!

Need a microscope!

luck!! Sort of reminds me of the problem with inserting a USB device
here and the machine locks up -- occurred yesterday and I used the
built-in USB 2.0 front panel port, usually the USB 3.0 add-on front
panel. Have to go back to that project, But First!

Yeah, tho think yours is different sort of flaw...

Probably. Need to work on that, but first!

> I think it's "measure twice, cut once", not the other way around!
KM> I cut it three times, and it's STILL too short!!
But is it getting better?

No, but the pile of sawdust is getting bigger!

The termites are impressed with your work!

<start a bit of a rant> And received a postcard (!) yesterday advising
me the DSL service will be increased $6 per month. No reason, no
promise of better nor faster service. Just 'because'. </end>

Supposedly CenturyLink is a lifetime price... didn't specify
whose lifetime... and today only getting 4.0Mbps down and power
cycle didn't improve matters, but did take a couple tries to
reconnect. Grrr...

The postcard did mention the lifetime option and special rate packages
would show a credit. 4 Mbps: I wonder if there is line noise? Of
course the trick is to prove and find where. Or at least whose side.
Vaguely recall the "ATM" test -- per CISCO if one area of values the
problem is on your side, if another it's 99.9% probabilty on the
provider's side. I kept hammering away at Qwest (it was before they
were bought by CenturyLink) and they eventually moved my line from one computer to another - no more issues!

> KM> Mine is embarrassing...
> You're also "out in the boonies" IIRC.
KM> Only a mile from town and 15,000 feet from the junction box...
KM> tho yeah, I used to be where to see civilization, you needed a
KM> good telescope!
So slowly accustoming yourself to civilization! <g> Though

It's embarrassing <g>

I can't decide between visualizing you as the male version of Goldilocks/ Cinderella/some Disney character in a flowing gown and the birds singing
and landing on your shoulders or a snarling werewolf-like caveman --
either would work in the privacy of a forest but not so good in town. <g>

Several months ago had the CenturyLink technicians out here for noise on
the line (could hear) and eventually a dead line. Somewhere one of the
two wires broke -- they could semi-pinpoint the location of the break
with their testers: was in one of two junction boxes side-by-side two
blocks from the house. Could either try to find (apparently the boxes
are a mess) or move me to a different pair. I don't really care which
wires I use as long as it works.

Had similar problem... flaws they could tell were there but not
where, and fixing this didn't fix that... their guy finally gave
up and just rewired the house, AND buried new cable out to the
street.

Too bad he didn't use waterproof cable! <gg>

KM> Can't you assign it one address on your router? I can do that on
KM> mine and it only has half a brain cell. (I don't bother, tho, cuz
KM> nothing here needs it. Also it tends to keep the same one per
KM> device anyway.)
Do have it all updated. The main problem was the DSL Router used 192.168.0.x and the fiber optic router 192.168.4.x -- sort of like right

Who ever heard of using .4.x ??!

Metronet I guess! Or EERO - the router manufacturer.

building, wrong floor. Did call tech support - the gentleman I talked
said he was the one who brought over the router when he as hired (so 'up there', not a troubleshooting manual reader); we did try a few things
but not able to change the IP address range from 4 to 0.

Yeah, usually that's hardwired.

Probably -- not disagreeing, just don't know so giving general
agreement. The tech support guy did indicate what he was seeing on the
various webpages was sometimes the same and sometimes different form
what I was seeing on my end because of security levels. He did suggest something to try but I didn't have the option.

sudo ip addr add 192.168.0.199/24 broadcast 192.168.0.199 dev enp1s0
This will give the 'working' computer with the 192.168.4.x address
another one at 192.168.0.199 so it can see that LAN. Change the device
as required (per ifconfig).

My brain hurts. I'll just let the switch handle it... :D

<chuckle> The only thing I needed that command for was to get one of
the .4.x computers to talk to the .0.x computer so I could see the configuration screen to update.

KM> He went from donkey to jet plane and complains about the speed of
KM> freight. :D :D :D
I like whine with my cheese!!

Swiss? :)

It has a lot of holes but does the trick!

KM> [Speaking of freight: we're on day 12 for a priority parcel from
KM> the Bay area, tho it's finally made it to Billings... 9 days for
KM> the previous two from CA... methinks CA's mail system is totally
KM> busted.]
Overnight -- you didn't specify which night!!

Apparently not!

Ever get it?

KM> Yeah... did I mention Win10 deciding to nuke the partition table
KM> on a USB-attached HD? I *think* what happened is that it saw the
I remember you having that problem. Nothing like an OS just assuming
stuff! Yeah, it would be on The List real quick!

Yeah. STOP FIXING STUFF ALREADY!!!

No, fixing/correcting is fine, it's the breaking of stuiff that used to
work is the problem!

KM> I do need to find some SODIMM 4GB or 8GB DDR3 sticks, as they're
KM> all sadly under-RAM'd.
I know I don't have any laptop-sized memory 'in stock'.

Heh... neither do I. Well, from this century, anyway.

Even if was twenty years old and it might work I'm sure you would have
tried it.

KM> Silly Blinky Tricks: don't have a 2-pin speaker for the
KM> Thinkstation board. Do have a 2-pin LED, and remember someone
KM> using an LED instead of a speaker, for a deaf user. It works!
Makes sense! As long as the 'impendence' of the LED is within a range acceptable to the speaker driver circuit.

It's just 5v power. And it only knows on/off -- all the speaker
has to do is beep, and will do so every time power comes through
the pins. And so does the LED. Well, blink. If it beeped I'd be
alarmed. <g>

OK - I'm thinking a constant voltage applied to the speaker would just
move the cone once and no sound, wheras the same constant voltage to the
LED would light it constantly and so be useful. Speakers need an
oscillating or pulsing voltage, which applied to the LED would cause it
to flicker, though fast enough would appear on but possibly dim.

KM> [What idiot uses oo pins for the speaker, instead of oxxo like
KM> the whole rest of the world??]
For a speaker-speaker oo would make sense: no polarity. For a piezo- speaker ox-o would make more sense to make it easier than to guess the polarity.

When it doesn't bloody matter, just make it match everyone else!
Some do 3 pins like that, but one is a dummy pin. And pointless
if the speaker's doohickey doesn't also have a blocked hole.

True! One sometimes has a 50-50 chance if plugged in right. If the
speaker doesn't beep and it's supposed to flip around. Preferably
before buttoning up the case!

KM> [Razor Case]
> KM> exposed edges. (In fact I still have one in the basement, sitting
> KM> empty.)
> Empty except with your blood! ..You really should have refrigerated it
> for a potential transfusion!
KM> Haha... yeah, if I ever use that case, I'm gonna name it Vampire. Black, with red trim!

Haha, if only... sadly, it's plain beige. Maybe some spray
paint...

I think they do make (spray) paint for plastic. I'd probably just
leave it as beige.

KM> blood on the components.
So that begs the qyuestion: can dried blood be used as a electrical insulator? And what's it R thermal factor?

Probably not... might contain enough iron to be micro-conductive.
R is probably about the same as 'thermal grease', toothpaste, and
vegemite (no real difference).

Never tasted thermal grease -- wonder if better or worse than vegemite?

Only so-called thermal grease I've seen that's actually better
than just filling any air gaps with literally any handy goo
(toothpaste, vegemite, spit...) is copper-based. Should get some
more of that....

If you order a Raspberry Pi 4 kit by Viros and it's the one with the
metal heatsink case it comes with a small tube of thermal compound.
Don't know what it's composition is.

> Probably because a lot of people use their cell phones and tablets as if
> they were computers cut into that market.
KM> Something like 60% of the market is now cells and tablets. And
KM> PCs became more and more disposable. So yeah, not much market
KM> anymore.
I can see their convenience. OTOH I'd hate to be doing a lot of reading
on a six or seven inch screen. ...Typing a reply like this one - ha!

Well, most people only use a PC, and therefore a phone, for
internet... which nowadays mostly means watching Youtube and
trawling Facebook.

No experience with Facebook other than occasionally looking at something
based on a Google hit.

KM> Yeah, that's how Dink and Wedgie got their names -- DNK on the
KM> case, and WedgTek on the case.
I don't feel quite so bad for my lack of name creativity!

Trouble is, whatever a person thinks of first invariably
sticks...

"Peezapoop"?!

Right now I have Confusion. Cash is doing Silver's old job, using
Silver's old HDs. Silver is now called Tarnish, but at the moment
has Cash's old PCLOS in it (which fortunately doesn't call itself
Cash, so no network-names conflict). Silver's old case with new
guts is now called Silver II, but presently has Lightfoot's Win7
in it (Lightfoot being semi-retired).

So do your computer cases have name tags on them?!

> "ThermalTake". And I have a case for a project that's been on hold
> from Raijintek - oh poop!
KM> It's better if you can pronounce 'em...
Maybe that will be it's name: "Unpronounceable" or maybe "Mumble"!

Hahaha yes... just don't complain when it doesn't come when
called!

Unless it's the robotics project!

Wait until you get in a car with the rear window wiper switch is on the right sticky-out thing: accidentally pull on it while rotating to
activate the (front) windshield wipers!!

I remember first time I drove one with switches on the stalk...
could not for the life of me figure out how to turn on the
headlights or run the wipers!!

And of course one doesn't think of figuring out where those controls wre
until it's dark or raining!

KM> Look over there. See? It's right there. Geesh!!)
Wasn't in the path. :( Yes, rather annoying when something used to
work and no longer works just because of an upgrade.

Such as... apparently Fireball has no IDE support. Add-on card is
seen but not heard... won't boot with IDE anything attached. Did
finally get XP64 installed, but had to switch SATA to IDE mode
(then why do we not support IDE HDs?), and apparently it required
part of a failed install to be there first. I swear it finally
installed by sheer failure to remember that it had decided it was impossible.

Good Grief!! As for the IDE card beding seen but not heard, that sort
of makes sense. I had a external HDD adapter which I used occasionally; suddenly stopped working. Problem was the 'identification code' was no
longer listed so the operating system didn't know what to do with it.
(The 'list' was on the OS side -- could have plugged the external drive
into a system with an older OS version and it would have worked.)

And now need to find Intel C600 SAS driver for XP64 (and for
Win7)... Lenovo's provided SAS driver is for the wrong chip (LSI,
which is not what it is). PCLOS found it just fine... well, it is
an old chip.

Sounds similar to mey external HDD adapter issue.

I've got a laptop (OK, they call it a notebook) which has a problem
staying connected via wireless. Could install a new WiFi card, which wouldn't be a bad idea as the current one only does 2.4 GHz, but I don't know for certain the card is the problem, and I'm not going to be a
happy camper if the problem is somewhere else and now I have a dedicated card which can do 2.4 and 5 GHz but is still dropping out. Decided to
get a dongle with USB 3.0 capabilities -- at least can be used with
other devices easily.

I have a few of those $3 USB WiFi dongles... if you get 'em with
RealTek chip often you don't even need to drag out the driver
disk. Never had any trouble with 'em staying connected. Onboard
network chips fail fairly often (I've had to replace 3 of 'em
with cards) so why wouldn't the notebook's WiFi card possibly
fail?

OK , so that pretty much verifies it's 'them' and not 'me'. Haven't had
any other connection issues so was pretty sure the problem was in the notebook. ...Still waiting for the dongle: ordered super-cheap from
Amazon from an overseas vendor; wasn't in any big rush. And what I
think is funny is my old-probably-antique Lenovo T61 laptop (possibly
2007) has 5 GHz Wifi and the HP notebook doesn't.

KM> Well, I could use two laptop drives in the single 3.5" internal
KM> bay, and an NVMe on an adapter in the 4x PCI3 slot, but... since
KM> I have other options, why?? still inflexible once you put the lid
KM> back on.
Duct tape and 3D printing come to mind! <g>

There's the next generation in PC cases!!

Custom create your own!!

> KM> Yeah, I have no patience anymore. Either it works easily or out
> KM> it goes.
> Time is money! LIS I've done the same over the years with my various
KM> If time flies when you throw a clock, I want to come back as DB
KM> Cooper.
Assuming he was able to spend his money!

Well, they never found the money... and I don't have it... :(

Some day someone will be exploring a bear or wolf den...

KM> Snipping rest or I'll never get this sent...
KM> "Did you write the Great American Novel?"
KM> "No, just an average reply on the BBS."
Really! I'm showing 491 lines, which I think would be about 8 pages if printed out -- just a phamphlet!

A mere short story.!

I/we did snip some! I'm showing this is line 389. :)

.. ERROR: Computer is way too old for this nonsense.

ERROR: User is way too old for this nonsense.

All this nonsense is way too old!

¯ ®
¯ BarryMartin3@ ®
¯ @MyMetronet.NET ®
¯ ®
¯ (Humans know what ®
¯ to remove.) ®

... Password- The nonsense word taped to the monitor
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47
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--- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462
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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

KM> So he got proof that it was bad (because I sent it back) but he
KM> didn't have to pay the return postage (because he refused it).

Sort of something like when a household appliance fails and the
manufacturer just wants the cord sent back. If the cord is integrated

I've never had to do that, but yeah, same principle.

> As for the finding the contact (or possibly non-contact) point -- good
KM> Need higher magnification!

Need a microscope!

Or at least one of those lens-and-light contraptions you hang on your face!

> > I think it's "measure twice, cut once", not the other way around!
> KM> I cut it three times, and it's STILL too short!!
> But is it getting better?
KM> No, but the pile of sawdust is getting bigger!
The termites are impressed with your work!

I am not impressed with the termites. (Tried to type 'turnips'.)

> So slowly accustoming yourself to civilization! <g> Though
KM> It's embarrassing <g>

I can't decide between visualizing you as the male version of Goldilocks/ Cinderella/some Disney character in a flowing gown and the birds singing
and landing on your shoulders or a snarling werewolf-like caveman --
either would work in the privacy of a forest but not so good in town. <g>

Snarling Cinderella. <g>

KM> Had similar problem... flaws they could tell were there but not
KM> where, and fixing this didn't fix that... their guy finally gave
KM> up and just rewired the house, AND buried new cable out to the
KM> street.

Too bad he didn't use waterproof cable! <gg>

Haha, well, I hope it was waterproof... temporary cable laid on the
ground all winter!

KM> Who ever heard of using .4.x ??!
Metronet I guess! Or EERO - the router manufacturer.

Never heard of 'em, which might be the problem... standards? whose??

> KM> [Speaking of freight: we're on day 12 for a priority parcel from
> KM> the Bay area, tho it's finally made it to Billings... 9 days for
> KM> the previous two from CA... methinks CA's mail system is totally
> KM> busted.]
> Overnight -- you didn't specify which night!!
KM> Apparently not!

Ever get it?

Yes, on day 15! four days for the last ten miles...

Client in L.A. area beats that, tho -- today he reports 21 days for a
small parcel. Must be vacation season... they're all taking the scenic
route!

KM> Yeah. STOP FIXING STUFF ALREADY!!!
No, fixing/correcting is fine, it's the breaking of stuiff that used to
work is the problem!

Is that the problem? I thought they said it was fixed!!

> I know I don't have any laptop-sized memory 'in stock'.
KM> Heh... neither do I. Well, from this century, anyway.
Even if was twenty years old and it might work I'm sure you would have
tried it.

Sadly, it suffers from the same issue as desktop memory.. it comes in a
dozen formats, all mutually incompatible.

OK - I'm thinking a constant voltage applied to the speaker would just
move the cone once and no sound, wheras the same constant voltage to the
LED would light it constantly and so be useful. Speakers need an
oscillating or pulsing voltage, which applied to the LED would cause it
to flicker, though fast enough would appear on but possibly dim.

Well, how much does a case speaker do? It just beeps...

True! One sometimes has a 50-50 chance if plugged in right. If the
speaker doesn't beep and it's supposed to flip around. Preferably
before buttoning up the case!

I'm not sure they care...

> KM> blood on the components.
> So that begs the qyuestion: can dried blood be used as a electrical
> insulator? And what's it R thermal factor?
KM> Probably not... might contain enough iron to be micro-conductive.
KM> R is probably about the same as 'thermal grease', toothpaste, and
KM> vegemite (no real difference).

Never tasted thermal grease -- wonder if better or worse than vegemite?

Hmm. That's a hard question!!

KM> Only so-called thermal grease I've seen that's actually better
KM> than just filling any air gaps with literally any handy goo
KM> (toothpaste, vegemite, spit...) is copper-based. Should get some
KM> more of that....

If you order a Raspberry Pi 4 kit by Viros and it's the one with the
metal heatsink case it comes with a small tube of thermal compound.
Don't know what it's composition is.

Most of 'em are probably chemically vaseline plus toothpaste. <g>

Well, here's a discussion:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/what-are-the-ingredients-in-thermal-paste/

OH! Someone referenced it!

http://www.dansdata.com/goop.htm

KM> Trouble is, whatever a person thinks of first invariably
KM> sticks...

"Peezapoop"?!

To the computer, not the wall!!

KM> Right now I have Confusion. Cash is doing Silver's old job, using
KM> Silver's old HDs. Silver is now called Tarnish, but at the moment
KM> has Cash's old PCLOS in it (which fortunately doesn't call itself
KM> Cash, so no network-names conflict). Silver's old case with new
KM> guts is now called Silver II, but presently has Lightfoot's Win7
KM> in it (Lightfoot being semi-retired).

So do your computer cases have name tags on them?!

No, but a couple have numbers, so I can remember which keyboard/mouse
belongs to each (for those that won't speak to USB-via-KVM -- seems to
be a hardware thing, not OS. Why of three identical Dells, will only one
speak to the USB-via-KVM? Yet Fireball will no matter which OS,
including clones of the OS installs from the Dells.)

> > "ThermalTake". And I have a case for a project that's been on hold
> > from Raijintek - oh poop!
> KM> It's better if you can pronounce 'em...
> Maybe that will be it's name: "Unpronounceable" or maybe "Mumble"!
KM> Hahaha yes... just don't complain when it doesn't come when
KM> called!
Unless it's the robotics project!

Here, Doggie! <g>

Have you seen Atlas doing parkour? :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LikxFZZO2sk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sBBaNYex3E

I wish my gyro worked that good! <g>

> Wait until you get in a car with the rear window wiper switch is on the
> right sticky-out thing: accidentally pull on it while rotating to
> activate the (front) windshield wipers!!
KM> I remember first time I drove one with switches on the stalk...
KM> could not for the life of me figure out how to turn on the
KM> headlights or run the wipers!!

And of course one doesn't think of figuring out where those controls wre until it's dark or raining!

This was the problem! <g>

KM> Such as... apparently Fireball has no IDE support. Add-on card is
KM> seen but not heard... won't boot with IDE anything attached. Did
KM> finally get XP64 installed, but had to switch SATA to IDE mode
KM> (then why do we not support IDE HDs?), and apparently it required
KM> part of a failed install to be there first. I swear it finally
KM> installed by sheer failure to remember that it had decided it was
KM> impossible.

Good Grief!! As for the IDE card beding seen but not heard, that sort
of makes sense. I had a external HDD adapter which I used occasionally; suddenly stopped working. Problem was the 'identification code' was no longer listed so the operating system didn't know what to do with it.
(The 'list' was on the OS side -- could have plugged the external drive
into a system with an older OS version and it would have worked.)

Oh, you mean that code USB stuff gets individually ID'd with?

KM> And now need to find Intel C600 SAS driver for XP64 (and for
KM> Win7)... Lenovo's provided SAS driver is for the wrong chip (LSI,
KM> which is not what it is). PCLOS found it just fine... well, it is
KM> an old chip.

Sounds similar to mey external HDD adapter issue.

Nah, this is just Lenovo's provided download is the wrong driver.

KM> I have a few of those $3 USB WiFi dongles... if you get 'em with
OK , so that pretty much verifies it's 'them' and not 'me'. Haven't had
any other connection issues so was pretty sure the problem was in the notebook. ...Still waiting for the dongle: ordered super-cheap from
Amazon from an overseas vendor; wasn't in any big rush. And what I
think is funny is my old-probably-antique Lenovo T61 laptop (possibly
2007) has 5 GHz Wifi and the HP notebook doesn't.

I only have one with ac wireless, and it sure does hog the network --
won't share gracefully. Or maybe that's Win8.1 (what that laptop came
with). HOWEVER... with Win10, the cheap n dongles get the same speed..
so Win10 does ONE thing right!

> KM> Well, I could use two laptop drives in the single 3.5" internal
> KM> bay, and an NVMe on an adapter in the 4x PCI3 slot, but... since
> KM> I have other options, why?? still inflexible once you put the lid
> KM> back on.
> Duct tape and 3D printing come to mind! <g>
KM> There's the next generation in PC cases!!
Custom create your own!!

Is thought... I don't like the newer cases at all, and am glad I hoarded
all those old RaidMax cases. Plain beige, all metal, and ten drive bays. Cheap, ugly, and fully functional.

> > KM> Yeah, I have no patience anymore. Either it works easily or out
> > KM> it goes.
> > Time is money! LIS I've done the same over the years with my various
> KM> If time flies when you throw a clock, I want to come back as DB
> KM> Cooper.
> Assuming he was able to spend his money!
KM> Well, they never found the money... and I don't have it... :(
Some day someone will be exploring a bear or wolf den...

Haha, could very well be...

> KM> Snipping rest or I'll never get this sent...
> KM> "Did you write the Great American Novel?"
> KM> "No, just an average reply on the BBS."
> Really! I'm showing 491 lines, which I think would be about 8 pages if
> printed out -- just a phamphlet!
KM> A mere short story.!
I/we did snip some! I'm showing this is line 389. :)

Shorter yet!

> .. ERROR: Computer is way too old for this nonsense.
KM> ERROR: User is way too old for this nonsense.
All this nonsense is way too old!

Which nonsense you sayin' is too old? <g>
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Hi Ky!

KM> So he got proof that it was bad (because I sent it back) but he
KM> didn't have to pay the return postage (because he refused it).
Sort of something like when a household appliance fails and the
manufacturer just wants the cord sent back. If the cord is integrated

I've never had to do that, but yeah, same principle.

I don't recall have to do either -- may have been an almost-return or something from when working at the store.

> As for the finding the contact (or possibly non-contact) point -- good
KM> Need higher magnification!
Need a microscope!

Or at least one of those lens-and-light contraptions you hang on
your face!

By nails or glue? <bseg> Yes: have seen them and there have been times
when would have come in handy here.

> > I think it's "measure twice, cut once", not the other way around!
> KM> I cut it three times, and it's STILL too short!!
> But is it getting better?
KM> No, but the pile of sawdust is getting bigger!
The termites are impressed with your work!

I am not impressed with the termites. (Tried to type 'turnips'.)

Turnips didn't care at all!!

> So slowly accustoming yourself to civilization! <g> Though
KM> It's embarrassing <g>
I can't decide between visualizing you as the male version of Goldilocks/ Cinderella/some Disney character in a flowing gown and the birds singing
and landing on your shoulders or a snarling werewolf-like caveman --
either would work in the privacy of a forest but not so good in town. <g>

Snarling Cinderella. <g>

My, what big -- oops! Plus that's Little Red Riding Hood. :)

KM> Had similar problem... flaws they could tell were there but not
KM> where, and fixing this didn't fix that... their guy finally gave
KM> up and just rewired the house, AND buried new cable out to the
KM> street.
Too bad he didn't use waterproof cable! <gg>

Haha, well, I hope it was waterproof... temporary cable laid on
the ground all winter!

They didn't try to bury with four feet of snow and frozen ground?!

KM> Who ever heard of using .4.x ??!
Metronet I guess! Or EERO - the router manufacturer.

Never heard of 'em, which might be the problem... standards?
whose??

Where's that tagline about "standards -- so many to choose from"! ...I
guess that's an advatage of being undereducated in stuff like that: 0.x,
1.x -- seen and used those, so 4.x -- sure, why not?!

https://eero.com. The small white box on the table on the home page is
what I have. ...Wandered a bit and didn't see any information on the LAN
IP address aspect.

> KM> [Speaking of freight: we're on day 12 for a priority parcel from
> KM> the Bay area, tho it's finally made it to Billings... 9 days for
> KM> the previous two from CA... methinks CA's mail system is totally
> KM> busted.]
> Overnight -- you didn't specify which night!!
KM> Apparently not!
Ever get it?

Yes, on day 15! four days for the last ten miles...

I walked faster than that when I had to use the walker due to the broken
leg! OK, so the street was paved - a gravel road and the small wheels
on the walker would have slowed me down to maybe that speed!!

Client in L.A. area beats that, tho -- today he reports 21 days
for a small parcel. Must be vacation season... they're all taking
the scenic route!

The problem is that 'priority' label: requires special handling. A few
years ago I ordered something - I think after lunch or maybe in the
afternoon: was on the doorstep next day!! Regular ol' shipping -- free;
no three-day or overnight.

KM> Yeah. STOP FIXING STUFF ALREADY!!!
No, fixing/correcting is fine, it's the breaking of stuff that used to
work is the problem!

Is that the problem? I thought they said it was fixed!!

Maybe thought they said 'fixed' and was really 'mixed'!

> I know I don't have any laptop-sized memory 'in stock'.
KM> Heh... neither do I. Well, from this century, anyway.
Even if was twenty years old and it might work I'm sure you would have
tried it.

Sadly, it suffers from the same issue as desktop memory.. it
comes in a dozen formats, all mutually incompatible.

Unfortunately. Must admit it is probably a case of good news and bad
news: good news is the particular format is faster but the bad news is
it doesn't work with the other formats.

OK - I'm thinking a constant voltage applied to the speaker would just
move the cone once and no sound, wheras the same constant voltage to the
LED would light it constantly and so be useful. Speakers need an oscillating or pulsing voltage, which applied to the LED would cause it
to flicker, though fast enough would appear on but possibly dim.

Well, how much does a case speaker do? It just beeps...

Oh yeah? I've have audio out of mine! One system years ago I couldn't
figure out how to shut off the internal speaker so ended up unplugging
it.

True! One sometimes has a 50-50 chance if plugged in right. If the
speaker doesn't beep and it's supposed to flip around. Preferably
before buttoning up the case!

I'm not sure they care...

Speakers would not; piezo would, or generally do.

KM> Only so-called thermal grease I've seen that's actually better
KM> than just filling any air gaps with literally any handy goo
KM> (toothpaste, vegemite, spit...) is copper-based. Should get some
KM> more of that....
If you order a Raspberry Pi 4 kit by Viros and it's the one with the
metal heatsink case it comes with a small tube of thermal compound.
Don't know what it's composition is.

Most of 'em are probably chemically vaseline plus toothpaste. <g>

Yummy!

Well, here's a discussion: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/what-are-the-ingredients-i n-thermal-pas
e/

(added the missing 't') ...JIF peanut butter?!?!

ROTFL!! The video is a riot!!

OH! Someone referenced it!
http://www.dansdata.com/goop.htm

Well at least with the toothpaste my CPU pins should be bright and
shiny!

KM> Trouble is, whatever a person thinks of first invariably
KM> sticks...
"Peezapoop"?!

To the computer, not the wall!!

Oh, sorry!

KM> Right now I have Confusion. Cash is doing Silver's old job, using
KM> Silver's old HDs. Silver is now called Tarnish, but at the moment
KM> has Cash's old PCLOS in it (which fortunately doesn't call itself
KM> Cash, so no network-names conflict). Silver's old case with new
KM> guts is now called Silver II, but presently has Lightfoot's Win7
KM> in it (Lightfoot being semi-retired).
So do your computer cases have name tags on them?!

No, but a couple have numbers, so I can remember which
keyboard/mouse belongs to each (for those that won't speak to
USB-via-KVM -- seems to be a hardware thing, not OS. Why of three identical Dells, will only one speak to the USB-via-KVM? Yet
Fireball will no matter which OS, including clones of the OS
installs from the Dells.)

They only appears tor be identical! Just like interchangeable parts
won't!

> > "ThermalTake". And I have a case for a project that's been on hold
> > from Raijintek - oh poop!
> KM> It's better if you can pronounce 'em...
> Maybe that will be it's name: "Unpronounceable" or maybe "Mumble"!
KM> Hahaha yes... just don't complain when it doesn't come when
KM> called!
Unless it's the robotics project!

Here, Doggie! <g>
Have you seen Atlas doing parkour? :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LikxFZZO2sk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sBBaNYex3E
I wish my gyro worked that good! <g>

Until I looked closely at the hip juctions it almost seemed like a human gymnast was in a robot costume.

KM> Such as... apparently Fireball has no IDE support. Add-on card is
KM> seen but not heard... won't boot with IDE anything attached. Did
KM> finally get XP64 installed, but had to switch SATA to IDE mode
KM> (then why do we not support IDE HDs?), and apparently it required
KM> part of a failed install to be there first. I swear it finally
KM> installed by sheer failure to remember that it had decided it was
KM> impossible.
Good Grief!! As for the IDE card beding seen but not heard, that sort
of makes sense. I had a external HDD adapter which I used occasionally; suddenly stopped working. Problem was the 'identification code' was no longer listed so the operating system didn't know what to do with it.
(The 'list' was on the OS side -- could have plugged the external drive
into a system with an older OS version and it would have worked.)

Oh, you mean that code USB stuff gets individually ID'd with?

Yes: abcd:1234.

KM> And now need to find Intel C600 SAS driver for XP64 (and for
KM> Win7)... Lenovo's provided SAS driver is for the wrong chip (LSI,
KM> which is not what it is). PCLOS found it just fine... well, it is
KM> an old chip.
Sounds similar to my external HDD adapter issue.

Nah, this is just Lenovo's provided download is the wrong driver.

Starting to wonder if Lenovo isn't as good as I thought they were.
Friend in Nevada has been looking at their line but appears they only do 'medium' instead of high-end ==> Intel i5's but no i7's. OTOH I was
liking them when buying refurbished equipment as lots of detail in the manuals, sturdily constructed hardware, etc.

KM> I have a few of those $3 USB WiFi dongles... if you get 'em with
OK , so that pretty much verifies it's 'them' and not 'me'. Haven't had
any other connection issues so was pretty sure the problem was in the notebook. ...Still waiting for the dongle: ordered super-cheap from
Amazon from an overseas vendor; wasn't in any big rush. And what I
think is funny is my old-probably-antique Lenovo T61 laptop (possibly
2007) has 5 GHz Wifi and the HP notebook doesn't.

I only have one with ac wireless, and it sure does hog the
network -- won't share gracefully. Or maybe that's Win8.1 (what
that laptop came with). HOWEVER... with Win10, the cheap n
dongles get the same speed.. so Win10 does ONE thing right!

Oops! Fire that programmer!!

...Your "not share gracefully" comment is causing me to wonder about an
issue here: I have a Raspberry Pi Frontend which isn't connecting
lately; recently noted problem but also something I'm not using
consistently so not sure when it started. Just installed a dual-band
dongle to a laptop, which corrected that problem; wondering if it's the
cause of the RPi problem? (No overlapping of IP addresses, but maybe bandwidth hogging?)

> KM> Well, I could use two laptop drives in the single 3.5" internal
> KM> bay, and an NVMe on an adapter in the 4x PCI3 slot, but... since
> KM> I have other options, why?? still inflexible once you put the lid
> KM> back on.
> Duct tape and 3D printing come to mind! <g>
KM> There's the next generation in PC cases!!
Custom create your own!!

Is thought... I don't like the newer cases at all, and am glad I
hoarded all those old RaidMax cases. Plain beige, all metal, and
ten drive bays. Cheap, ugly, and fully functional.

Three out of three's not bad! <g>

> KM> Snipping rest or I'll never get this sent...
> KM> "Did you write the Great American Novel?"
> KM> "No, just an average reply on the BBS."
> Really! I'm showing 491 lines, which I think would be about 8 pages if
> printed out -- just a phamphlet!
KM> A mere short story.!
I/we did snip some! I'm showing this is line 389. :)

Shorter yet!

Holy poopies: Line 294!!!

> .. ERROR: Computer is way too old for this nonsense.
KM> ERROR: User is way too old for this nonsense.
All this nonsense is way too old!

Which nonsense you sayin' is too old? <g>

The old nonsense, of course!!


¯ ®
¯ BarryMartin3@ ®
¯ @MyMetronet.NET ®
¯ ®
¯ (Humans know what ®
¯ to remove.) ®

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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

Ancient history comes back to haunt you. :D

Have you noticed it seems like the newer the machine the shorter the
time it runs? 286: two years. Something-or-other 4-core: 3/4 year
(rounded and to keep the time unit consistent.

Not mine! Bullet (quadcore) *never* needs a restart, and only happens
when the power is out beyond the UPS's capacity. And the stack of Dells
don't get restarted enough to notice, either. (Tho what's with all the
kernel updates this year? Seems like it's one every day!)

> Could create a virtual machine on your mega-toy you were gifted -- the
> one with the three multi-terabyte hard drives. Unfortunately VMs don't
KM> Yeah, that's why I went ahead and maxed RAM on the i7... not like
KM> Win7 needs 32GB, but thinking I should resurrect all the old
KM> systems in VMs.
Yes, I'd max out the RAM in that instance also -- did here with this one
even though right now only 6 GB of the 32 GB being used. XP VM only
using 1.9 GB out of 3.6 GB.

I give XP 4GB and other VMs 8GB, seems like since I've got it and the
base OS doesn't need it, I might as well use it for something. Does make
a considerable difference in performance... can't tell this XP from the
real thing.

Yes, I need to look into that more. Pretty much only the Virtual XP for
the BBS and X10 (home automation) stuff and eventually those are to be switched to the Ubuntu portion just for convenience. Do have a Virtual
Linux machine for 'experimenting': do I like <optional utility /
programme>?

That's one good use for it! or two if we count the BBS. :D

LIS in other messages, I've sort of restricted myself to Ubuntu because Mythbuntu (MythTV with the stand-alone OS) was based on Ubuntu and less confusing for me to deal with one Operating System (though Raspbian on
the Raspberry Pi's is fun!). I could probably install a different Linux
OS in some of the old machines I have/had here -- just what for?

I sometimes ask myself that. <g> Yeah, some are just for fun. I mean, I
have WinXP, why do I need ReactOS? Because it's there!

KM> Then again, I might install Mageia as an alternate, and it uses
KM> systemd.
Will you call that machine "Milk"? Then you could have Milk of Mageia!

LOL! Sounds like a plan. :D

Tho I have a (black) cat called Milk (Do you want Milk? do you want
Milk2?) and they might get confused. <g>

KM> I can see both sides of the argument. But with all the complaints
KM> about systemd, still no one has produced a viable fork. There's a
KM> video, "The Tragedy of systemd" that's worth a look.

May have to take a look, though I'd probably still not going to do much
about it as I don't know enough to do my own change. (Tangent: like I'd

Yeah, it's more a matter of knowing what other people are griping about.
From userland, I don't really care so long as it works, and doesn't
annoy me with lagging, crashes, or too many obvious vulnerabilities.

been a perfect candidate for an electric car when I needed to buy the
current replacement years ago: local driving, so no need to be concerned about charging sites. Big block to purchase was the cost.)

I live where the power goes out in bad weather. I like gas engines.

Right. I'm pleased when I can get a Western Digital in a refurbished
system (though lately not needing systems as reusing hardware and cases
and just updating motherboards). As for buying, I'll buy a WD over

Yeah, I do a lot of recycling... I have a handful of PCIe vidcards,
since I don't do modern games, why do I care how much RAM or GPU power
they have so long as it's "enough" and isn't a drag on the system? So
Fireball got one that's probably 12 years old, but works fine for the
purpose, and it's paid for ($15 off ebay).

Seagate, though I'm purchasing one or maybe two at a time, not thousands
if not tens or hundrdeds of thousands at a time where a ten dollar
difference adds up real fast! And I don't have stockholders yelling at
my financial department!

That too :D

> Western Digital since my XT days because of some super-good customer
> service they gave me when I was upgrading.
KM> That, and that when they plan to die, they usually give plenty of
KM> notice.
Good, though I can't recall having one die. Decades ago did come home
to find a hard drive which decided to become a 60 or maybe 80 GB one
(from 250 or 500 GB) but don't recall the brand. Thinking not Western Digital as that would have stiffled my preference.

That kind of bug typically comes from the system BIOS. They don't
actually know over 64gb (or sometimes 137gb), but will pretend they do
until data exceeds that boundary.

KM> Just for the record, my PCLOS/KDE (which has every K-app known to
KM> man installed, and various other crap) uses 690mb at startup, or
KM> 730mb after it's been busy a while. About 100mb of that is
KM> probably the nVidia driver and similar junk; default naked
KM> install uses about 550mb.

Know I know what to do with my 512 MB and 1 GB sticks!

Someone gift me seven 1GB sticks of DDR3, but the old slow stuff nothing
newer than the very earliest DDR3 systems can use. I have no idea why
seven, either... that's just weird. They'd given me a vidcard and this
was in there too. Here's a sucker, they'll take it off my hands! :D

True, though like you said some of the programmes check to see Swap is available, though seems like they check for a Swap partition is present
but not necessarily the size of the partition.

Some do, some don't. Photoshop is particularly stupid; it insists on a swapfile, but doesn't check if it's big enough before trying to use it.

> As for the current Ubuntu machines, this one has 32 GB of RAM and 32 GB
> of Swap -- I don't recall who set the swap size, probably the
> installation disk. I haven't seen this machine use more than 7 GB of
KM> So that's pretty much wasted swap space.

Yup. OTOH I'm not too concerned as have only used 12% of the hard drive
(298 GiB of 2.7TiB).

Haha... I think PCLOS defaults to a 4GB swap. I've never seen it use
any, even on the 8GB system.

> Same for the other system I'm using as the MythTV Backend: 'only' 16 GB
> of RAM in it, think uses not quite half (5 GB?). IIRC that system
> installed a 2 GB Swap.
KM> Which seems more rational.

Yes. Not sure why this system has such a huge Swap partition.

Stupid installer, that's why. Come to think of it, that's why Mint would
not install on some smallish HD -- it took some for root and some for
swap and there was none left. Didn't ask, just did. Mint is basically
Ubuntu Lite, so...

Think I have a full height Maxtor around here, or maybe finally put it
out for electronics recyling -- less than a GB?? I have thumbdrives
larger!

Oy...

> little gun-shy. There are some machines now with just a SSD. All have
KM> Yeah, the "new" i7 boxen are eating up the surplus SSDs :) Made
KM> a big difference with Win7, which seems to have a lot of lag
KM> during disk reads compared to XP and Vista.

Perhaps doing verification processes? "Did I read this corrently?" "Did
I write this correctly?" Verifications being done before going on to
the next step int he process?

Nope, just doing I/O stupidly, I think.

> Sounds a bit like some of the But Firsts around here!
KM> I have way too many of these But Firsts laying around... today's
KM> was Mow the Durn Lawn.
You forgot "Before It Turns To Hay"!

Too late! Tho I did finally get Jurassic Weedpark under control.. mostly...
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Hi Ky!

Ancient history comes back to haunt you. :D

I sometimes interpret that as if I wait long enough the answer to my
question will come! <g>

Have you noticed it seems like the newer the machine the shorter the
time it runs? 286: two years. Something-or-other 4-core: 3/4 year
(rounded and to keep the time unit consistent.

Not mine! Bullet (quadcore) *never* needs a restart, and only
happens when the power is out beyond the UPS's capacity. And the
stack of Dells don't get restarted enough to notice, either. (Tho
what's with all the kernel updates this year? Seems like it's one
every day!)

That wasn't me! I hadn't made the correlation of newer expiring sooner.
And hopefully my 8-core last longer than barely half a year! ...Maybe
they had better heatsinks and fans earlier! Thinking of the "AMD
approved" heatsink/fan combo which kept the FX-8320 processor
sufficiently cool as long as it didn't do much work.

And knock-on-wood there have been power glitches but no power outages so
far this year, "Partial-house" generator would be nice (I don't need to
have everything running per normal when the power fails); might not be budgetable again this year as have to have the roof replaced (hail
damage and the insurance only paying a portion, though more than thought
they would), plus the deck and porch needs replacing.

As for power-up times, this one has been running for 17+ days since the
last reboot (probably a major update), the computer running the MythTV
Backend probably closer to a couple of months.

Not sure about the 'constant' kernel updates as I have LivePatch turned
on. ...Last I knew LivePatch won't work with a 32-bit system, though
sloppy advisement as just indicates something wrong with the log-in to
Ubuntu1 instead of the real reason.

> Could create a virtual machine on your mega-toy you were gifted -- the
> one with the three multi-terabyte hard drives. Unfortunately VMs don't
KM> Yeah, that's why I went ahead and maxed RAM on the i7... not like
KM> Win7 needs 32GB, but thinking I should resurrect all the old
KM> systems in VMs.
Yes, I'd max out the RAM in that instance also -- did here with this one even though right now only 6 GB of the 32 GB being used. XP VM only
using 1.9 GB out of 3.6 GB.

I give XP 4GB and other VMs 8GB, seems like since I've got it and
the base OS doesn't need it, I might as well use it for
something. Does make a considerable difference in performance...
can't tell this XP from the real thing.

I'll have to play around later. Did check and I am currently running
4096 MB (so 4 GB) memory for this XP Virtual Machine. I do recall
increasing to that amount definitely improved the response. Seems moreI
have an issue with video sluggishness: Video Memory at 20 MB currently,
which seems horrendously tiny but off-hand don't recall the reasoning.
Use the XP portion only for BBSing, so text and it seems to keeo up <g>.
The only video issue is if move a window around (in XP) and some
juttering: move-stop-move-stop-move-stop.... As I don't watch any
videos on the XP VM probably no need to alter, though may be worthwhile
to know for the Linux test VM.

LIS in other messages, I've sort of restricted myself to Ubuntu because Mythbuntu (MythTV with the stand-alone OS) was based on Ubuntu and less confusing for me to deal with one Operating System (though Raspbian on
the Raspberry Pi's is fun!). I could probably install a different Linux
OS in some of the old machines I have/had here -- just what for?

I sometimes ask myself that. <g> Yeah, some are just for fun. I
mean, I have WinXP, why do I need ReactOS? Because it's there!

Sounds like a worthwhile reason to me! I'll admit to trying to keep
things the same aorund here just because it's easier and less confusing,
plus I have no real need to run separate systems. Well, almost did
because 'needed' XP for the BBS and X10 (home automation) but those
could have been converted to a Linux utility. <Insert Round TuIt excuse
here.>

KM> Then again, I might install Mageia as an alternate, and it uses
KM> systemd.
Will you call that machine "Milk"? Then you could have Milk of Mageia!

LOL! Sounds like a plan. :D
Tho I have a (black) cat called Milk (Do you want Milk? do you
want Milk2?) and they might get confused. <g>

I'd probably name the machine something else. Was sort of like when I
had Honey (RIP) - my Lhasa Apso I adopted: did some hypenated commands
so she (hopefully) wouldn't get confused: "you want to go outside-
bathroom?", hopefully coupling the 'outside' concept of "do you want to
go outside" to play, go for a walk, etc., and not confuse with one of
saying we had to go to the bathroom.

...So "Mageia"..... Nothing coming even semi-clever coming to mind.

KM> I can see both sides of the argument. But with all the complaints
KM> about systemd, still no one has produced a viable fork. There's a
KM> video, "The Tragedy of systemd" that's worth a look.
May have to take a look, though I'd probably still not going to do much about it as I don't know enough to do my own change. (Tangent: like I'd

Yeah, it's more a matter of knowing what other people are griping
about.
From userland, I don't really care so long as it works, and
doesn't annoy me with lagging, crashes, or too many obvious vulnerabilities.

Which is more my side of the coin. I don't know, so I have to go with
what others offer. Ubuntu was selected out of the myriad of Linux
offerings because MythTV used it. And sort of based on my "let's not
get too mixed up" philosophy with MythTV being based on Ubuntu it sort
of made sense to learn or at least be more familiar with Ubuntu to troubleshoot MythTV.

been a perfect candidate for an electric car when I needed to buy the current replacement years ago: local driving, so no need to be concerned about charging sites. Big block to purchase was the cost.)

I live where the power goes out in bad weather. I like gas
engines.

Good point! :) The power has been more and more reliable here over the
years -- main issue was the squirrels or birds getting too curious about
the transformer on the pole in the back yard: peck-peck-BOOM! They
eventually replaced the transformer as getting near end-of-life due to
the excessive shorts -- the supervisor said something like eleven more
times and the transformer would have to be replaced. He asked if wanted
to have it replaced now -- Memorial Day, which was the beginning of
summer and we immediately said yes as preferred a long replacement
outage while it was cool as opposed to delaying and needing it done on a
100ø summer day or during a snowstorm.

As for powering a generator, the little ones tend to put out square
waves which will ruin electronics and some electrical. The bigger gas- powered ones have the disadvantage of needing to be refilled, and so
shut down and cooled down so any spilt gas doesn't ignite. And int he
middle of a rainstorm or snowstorm going to be a little grumbling about
that. So probably would go with a natural gas powered generator as have
NG here, plus at one time there was a NG air conditioner cooling the
house (!) -- previous owner of the house owned several gas stations and
one had to be demolished to make room for something -- I think the
building of the second I-74 Bridge, not to be confused with the new
bridges being built currently, which caused the demolishment of the
replacement gas station. Anyway, makes sense here to have a NG
generator; now to have the necessary 'spare' money......

Right. I'm pleased when I can get a Western Digital in a refurbished
system (though lately not needing systems as reusing hardware and cases
and just updating motherboards). As for buying, I'll buy a WD over

Yeah, I do a lot of recycling... I have a handful of PCIe
vidcards, since I don't do modern games, why do I care how much
RAM or GPU power they have so long as it's "enough" and isn't a
drag on the system? So Fireball got one that's probably 12 years
old, but works fine for the purpose, and it's paid for ($15 off
ebay).

Around $1.25 per year -- not bad! My systems have had to 'go up'
because of MythTV usage -- MythTV not being the hog but the high
definition playback is. Standard definition I could probably get by
with a 486 (guessing) but why?

> Western Digital since my XT days because of some super-good customer
> service they gave me when I was upgrading.
KM> That, and that when they plan to die, they usually give plenty of
KM> notice.
Good, though I can't recall having one die. Decades ago did come home
to find a hard drive which decided to become a 60 or maybe 80 GB one
(from 250 or 500 GB) but don't recall the brand. Thinking not Western Digital as that would have stiffled my preference.

That kind of bug typically comes from the system BIOS. They don't
actually know over 64gb (or sometimes 137gb), but will pretend
they do until data exceeds that boundary.

In this instance definately was the hard drive: left for work one
morning and the system was fine; came home and -- what happened?!
Eventually pulled the hard drive and another system interpreted it as
the smaller size.

KM> Just for the record, my PCLOS/KDE (which has every K-app known to
KM> man installed, and various other crap) uses 690mb at startup, or
KM> 730mb after it's been busy a while. About 100mb of that is
KM> probably the nVidia driver and similar junk; default naked
KM> install uses about 550mb.
Know I know what to do with my 512 MB and 1 GB sticks!

Someone gift me seven 1GB sticks of DDR3, but the old slow stuff
nothing newer than the very earliest DDR3 systems can use. I have
no idea why seven, either... that's just weird. They'd given me a
vidcard and this was in there too. Here's a sucker, they'll take
it off my hands! :D

Have read where some businesses' software can't be upgraded to something
more current just because it doesn't exist so they have to stick with
antique hardware to run the software.

As for you seven 1GB sticks, odd, but semi-sorta makes sense: I have an
old Lenovo system with came with three 1 GB sticks -- four slots and the
fourth slot was empty. Lenovo said the system could use up to 8 GB (4x
2GB), so eventually upgraded -- and the system wouldn't boot. Fiddle-
fiddle. Eventually just let it run with 2+2+1+1 (6 GB) as didn't seem
to like a 2GB stick in the 'upper' slots.

True, though like you said some of the programmes check to see Swap is available, though seems like they check for a Swap partition is present
but not necessarily the size of the partition.

Some do, some don't. Photoshop is particularly stupid; it insists
on a swapfile, but doesn't check if it's big enough before trying
to use it.

Weird. Would guess a section of old code they haven't figured how to
get around.

> As for the current Ubuntu machines, this one has 32 GB of RAM and 32 GB
> of Swap -- I don't recall who set the swap size, probably the
> installation disk. I haven't seen this machine use more than 7 GB of
KM> So that's pretty much wasted swap space.
Yup. OTOH I'm not too concerned as have only used 12% of the hard drive (298 GiB of 2.7TiB).

Haha... I think PCLOS defaults to a 4GB swap. I've never seen it
use any, even on the 8GB system.

I've spot checked and there have been times when Swap has something in
it though not required by human thinking. I'd guess a pending update
has been written there: I have seen something like 'ureadahead will be
updated at the next boot'.

Right now:
Memory: 7.4 GiB (23.7%) of 31.3 GiB
Swap: 163.2 MiB (0.5%) of 32.0 GiB

> Same for the other system I'm using as the MythTV Backend: 'only' 16 GB
> of RAM in it, think uses not quite half (5 GB?). IIRC that system
> installed a 2 GB Swap.
KM> Which seems more rational.
Yes. Not sure why this system has such a huge Swap partition.

Stupid installer, that's why. Come to think of it, that's why
Mint would not install on some smallish HD -- it took some for
root and some for swap and there was none left. Didn't ask, just
did. Mint is basically Ubuntu Lite, so...

Oops! ...I sort of stopped using smaller hard drives on the various
MythTV Frontends as they took a relatively long time to boot.

> little gun-shy. There are some machines now with just a SSD. All have
KM> Yeah, the "new" i7 boxen are eating up the surplus SSDs :) Made
KM> a big difference with Win7, which seems to have a lot of lag
KM> during disk reads compared to XP and Vista.
Perhaps doing verification processes? "Did I read this corrently?" "Did
I write this correctly?" Verifications being done before going on to
the next step in the process?

Nope, just doing I/O stupidly, I think.

Microsoft: where we write a new operating system, test, release, then
find it doesn't work right so we create a new OS. Profits are great!!

> Sounds a bit like some of the But Firsts around here!
KM> I have way too many of these But Firsts laying around... today's
KM> was Mow the Durn Lawn.
You forgot "Before It Turns To Hay"!

Too late! Tho I did finally get Jurassic Weedpark under control.. mostly...

The weather here has been ideal for growing grass: the weather guy
mentioned some yards needing to be mowed three times in one week!

¯ ®
¯ Barry_Martin_3@ ®
¯ @Q.COM ®
¯ ®


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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

KM> Ancient history comes back to haunt you. :D

I sometimes interpret that as if I wait long enough the answer to my
question will come! <g>

Someday your prints will come.
-- motto of the serial printer.

> Have you noticed it seems like the newer the machine the shorter the
> time it runs? 286: two years. Something-or-other 4-core: 3/4 year
> (rounded and to keep the time unit consistent.
KM> Not mine! Bullet (quadcore) *never* needs a restart, and only
KM> happens when the power is out beyond the UPS's capacity. And the
KM> stack of Dells don't get restarted enough to notice, either. (Tho
KM> what's with all the kernel updates this year? Seems like it's one
KM> every day!)

That wasn't me! I hadn't made the correlation of newer expiring sooner.
And hopefully my 8-core last longer than barely half a year! ...Maybe
they had better heatsinks and fans earlier! Thinking of the "AMD

Well, no... heatsinks in particular have improved immensely. And there's really no excuse for shipping a hot-running CPU without at least a basic heatpipe cooler. HP has made them standard on Xeon systems. But AMD's philosophy is why bother when gamers will replace it with some fancy aftermarket cooling to compensate for their overclocking habit.

I have two of those cheap little HP heatpipe coolers, on the two hottest
CPUs, and they do a stellar job. First time I checked, the i7-4820K
(130W) was running at a barely-warm 82F. (Tho at the moment SIW has lost
its marbles and thinks it's 478F. Er, I don't think so; I can put my
finger on the cooler's foot and it's barely warm.)

approved" heatsink/fan combo which kept the FX-8320 processor
sufficiently cool as long as it didn't do much work.

..."as long as it didn't do too much work" is the very description of inadequate cooling!

And knock-on-wood there have been power glitches but no power outages so
far this year, "Partial-house" generator would be nice (I don't need to
have everything running per normal when the power fails); might not be budgetable again this year as have to have the roof replaced (hail
damage and the insurance only paying a portion, though more than thought
they would), plus the deck and porch needs replacing.

I've had the thought that a generator that could run off the natural gas
line would be a Good Thing.

As for power-up times, this one has been running for 17+ days since the
last reboot (probably a major update), the computer running the MythTV Backend probably closer to a couple of months.

Bullet would have the longest uptime here... <checking> 113 days. So
that's how long since the last power outage. Tho that's gotten less
frequent since they trimmed all the trees that could touch and ground
out a line when it rains.

Not sure about the 'constant' kernel updates as I have LivePatch turned
on. ...Last I knew LivePatch won't work with a 32-bit system, though
sloppy advisement as just indicates something wrong with the log-in to Ubuntu1 instead of the real reason.

I don't know LivePatch? PCLOS does updates on the fly, but you have to
restart to load a newly-arrived kernel. There've been so many this year
that GRUB's list has become very long. I've never had to boot to an
older kernel, but not worth the bother to remove 'em, either.

KM> I give XP 4GB and other VMs 8GB, seems like since I've got it and
KM> the base OS doesn't need it, I might as well use it for
KM> something. Does make a considerable difference in performance...
KM> can't tell this XP from the real thing.

I'll have to play around later. Did check and I am currently running
4096 MB (so 4 GB) memory for this XP Virtual Machine. I do recall
increasing to that amount definitely improved the response. Seems moreI

The default is something like 512mb which is a trifle cramped.

have an issue with video sluggishness: Video Memory at 20 MB currently,
which seems horrendously tiny but off-hand don't recall the reasoning.

8mb should suffice for XP that's not doing recentish gaming. I think VirtualBox defaults it to 128mb which is overkill for basic use.

Use the XP portion only for BBSing, so text and it seems to keeo up <g>.
The only video issue is if move a window around (in XP) and some
juttering: move-stop-move-stop-move-stop.... As I don't watch any
videos on the XP VM probably no need to alter, though may be worthwhile
to know for the Linux test VM.

That generally indicates something wrong with the video driver. Try one
of the other VM settings. Some get along with different hosts better'n
others, is my vague grok.

KM> I sometimes ask myself that. <g> Yeah, some are just for fun. I
KM> mean, I have WinXP, why do I need ReactOS? Because it's there!

Except not today. The crappy socket939 box that was reassigned to
ReactOS (cuz that AMD CPU don't do proper 64bit) decided to pop a
capacitor, and it looks like it's the same general location as my
slightly newer one with the southbridge problem. Methinks there's a
reason Asus went to solid capacitors.

Sounds like a worthwhile reason to me! I'll admit to trying to keep
things the same aorund here just because it's easier and less confusing,
plus I have no real need to run separate systems. Well, almost did
because 'needed' XP for the BBS and X10 (home automation) but those
could have been converted to a Linux utility. <Insert Round TuIt excuse here.>

Yeah, some of 'em are because I can, or because that hardware has no
better mission in life (this explains the box that I just left with the
Vista that came on it; they like each other, and I don't need the system
to do anything else, so it's a good reserve home for Vista).

Still debating what goes on Fireball, tho since chances are it
eventually replaces Bullet (when/if it ever dies) ... XP64! <g>

> Will you call that machine "Milk"? Then you could have Milk of Mageia!
KM> LOL! Sounds like a plan. :D
KM> Tho I have a (black) cat called Milk (Do you want Milk? do you
KM> want Milk2?) and they might get confused. <g>
I'd probably name the machine something else. Was sort of like when I
had Honey (RIP) - my Lhasa Apso I adopted: did some hypenated commands

Awww...

so she (hopefully) wouldn't get confused: "you want to go outside- bathroom?", hopefully coupling the 'outside' concept of "do you want to
go outside" to play, go for a walk, etc., and not confuse with one of
saying we had to go to the bathroom.

Oh yes, they can make those connections well enough.

..So "Mageia"..... Nothing coming even semi-clever coming to mind.

I still haven't named the 3 Dells anything clever, tho Larry, Darryl,
and Darryl comes to mind. <g>

KM> From userland, I don't really care so long as it works, and
KM> doesn't annoy me with lagging, crashes, or too many obvious
KM> vulnerabilities.

Which is more my side of the coin. I don't know, so I have to go with
what others offer. Ubuntu was selected out of the myriad of Linux
offerings because MythTV used it. And sort of based on my "let's not
get too mixed up" philosophy with MythTV being based on Ubuntu it sort
of made sense to learn or at least be more familiar with Ubuntu to troubleshoot MythTV.

So there's some method to your masochism. <g>

> been a perfect candidate for an electric car when I needed to buy the
> current replacement years ago: local driving, so no need to be concerned
> about charging sites. Big block to purchase was the cost.)
KM> I live where the power goes out in bad weather. I like gas
KM> engines.

I also don't like the idea of trusting to an electric car when there are stretches of up to 200 miles between power outlets.

times and the transformer would have to be replaced. He asked if wanted
to have it replaced now -- Memorial Day, which was the beginning of
summer and we immediately said yes as preferred a long replacement
outage while it was cool as opposed to delaying and needing it done on a 100ø summer day or during a snowstorm.

Gee, ya think? :D

As for powering a generator, the little ones tend to put out square
waves which will ruin electronics and some electrical. The bigger gas-

You can get a sine-wave convertor, tho.

powered ones have the disadvantage of needing to be refilled, and so
shut down and cooled down so any spilt gas doesn't ignite. And int he

Natural gas. :D

middle of a rainstorm or snowstorm going to be a little grumbling about
that. So probably would go with a natural gas powered generator as have

What did I just say? :D

NG here, plus at one time there was a NG air conditioner cooling the
house (!) -- previous owner of the house owned several gas stations and
one had to be demolished to make room for something -- I think the
building of the second I-74 Bridge, not to be confused with the new
bridges being built currently, which caused the demolishment of the replacement gas station. Anyway, makes sense here to have a NG
generator; now to have the necessary 'spare' money......

There's the real problem! Maybe we'll just sit in the dark after all.

Around $1.25 per year -- not bad! My systems have had to 'go up'
because of MythTV usage -- MythTV not being the hog but the high
definition playback is. Standard definition I could probably get by
with a 486 (guessing) but why?

Actually, I found a P3-500 is about the minimum for decoding DVDs, and
it's real borderline (has spasms of being unable to keep up). The old
DVDs default to what, 720p? so there's your baseline. The P233 could not
play MP4s without a lot of stuttering and staggering, and DVDs were
right out.

KM> That kind of bug typically comes from the system BIOS. They don't
KM> actually know over 64gb (or sometimes 137gb), but will pretend
KM> they do until data exceeds that boundary.

In this instance definately was the hard drive: left for work one
morning and the system was fine; came home and -- what happened?!
Eventually pulled the hard drive and another system interpreted it as
the smaller size.

Oh, there's an Ooopsie, then. There was a bug in some of that era that
would crop up and do something like that, but I never encountered it.
You're special. <g>

Actually, tho... if it was FAT32, there's your problem. Unstable once
the data exceeds 32GB. I *have* experienced that one.

Have read where some businesses' software can't be upgraded to something
more current just because it doesn't exist so they have to stick with
antique hardware to run the software.

Yeah, lot of that with specialty ISA cards for industrial applications.

As for you seven 1GB sticks, odd, but semi-sorta makes sense: I have an
old Lenovo system with came with three 1 GB sticks -- four slots and the

To make matters odder, the seven sticks are server RAM (registered ECC).

fourth slot was empty. Lenovo said the system could use up to 8 GB (4x
2GB), so eventually upgraded -- and the system wouldn't boot. Fiddle- fiddle. Eventually just let it run with 2+2+1+1 (6 GB) as didn't seem
to like a 2GB stick in the 'upper' slots.

Some of 'em are cranky, tho might your second pair were single-sided or
ECC, either of which would not work, tho single-sided sometimes not
works in creative ways (shows up as half the size, or even smaller).

I have an Amptron motherboard (quality-wise from well beneath the
barrel) with a P4-2.4GHz CPU, and it has thoroughly weird ideas about
RAM... 2 slots and theoretically it supports 2GB (or was it 4GB, I
forget) but will only boot with a 512mb and 256mb -- AND they have to
NOT be the same speed or timing specs. Matched pair = no boot!

> True, though like you said some of the programmes check to see Swap is
> available, though seems like they check for a Swap partition is present
> but not necessarily the size of the partition.
KM> Some do, some don't. Photoshop is particularly stupid; it insists
KM> on a swapfile, but doesn't check if it's big enough before trying
KM> to use it.

Weird. Would guess a section of old code they haven't figured how to
get around.

More like Adobe has some swaths of general incompetence. Took 'em til
the most recent version to figure out that Illustrator's menus really
should respect system settings for large monitors, instead of becoming
so small you need a microscope to even FIND 'em. (Photoshop at least had
a setting to increase menu size, and that sorta works, tho still doesn't respect system settings.) Only reason I can think of is that to this day
it must have inherited menu handling from its Aldus ancestors, built for Win3.1, where there was as yet no real standard for menu size or font
handling and lots of apps were still DIYing.

Oops! ...I sort of stopped using smaller hard drives on the various
MythTV Frontends as they took a relatively long time to boot.

Until relatively recently, linux had poor to absent disk caching, which
made it glacial on hard drives with small cache.

KM> Nope, just doing I/O stupidly, I think.

Microsoft: where we write a new operating system, test, release, then
find it doesn't work right so we create a new OS. Profits are great!!

Haha... I wonder what they plan to do with their cloud OS, since they've
said Win10 will be the last version of Windows. If they want everyone to
rush right out and buy it, just slap XP's interface on Win10... that way
they don't need another version of Windows!!

> > Sounds a bit like some of the But Firsts around here!
> KM> I have way too many of these But Firsts laying around... today's
> KM> was Mow the Durn Lawn.
> You forgot "Before It Turns To Hay"!
KM> Too late! Tho I did finally get Jurassic Weedpark under control..
KM> mostly...
The weather here has been ideal for growing grass: the weather guy
mentioned some yards needing to be mowed three times in one week!

Oh yeah, been like that here too... today we (me and the big goat)
chopped weeds. Tomorrow, the rest of the seedy grass...
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Hi Ky!

KM> Ancient history comes back to haunt you. :D
I sometimes interpret that as if I wait long enough the answer to my question will come! <g>

Someday your prints will come.
-- motto of the serial printer.

<Hiding in the shadows> "Psst! CTS?" "Huh?" "Is it Clear to Send?"

Or maybe as Mr. Miaggi <sp> could say to Grasshopper: "XON, XOFF...
XON, XOFF...."

> Have you noticed it seems like the newer the machine the shorter the
> time it runs? 286: two years. Something-or-other 4-core: 3/4 year
> (rounded and to keep the time unit consistent.
KM> Not mine! Bullet (quadcore) *never* needs a restart, and only
KM> happens when the power is out beyond the UPS's capacity. And the
KM> stack of Dells don't get restarted enough to notice, either. (Tho
KM> what's with all the kernel updates this year? Seems like it's one
KM> every day!)
That wasn't me! I hadn't made the correlation of newer expiring sooner.
And hopefully my 8-core last longer than barely half a year! ...Maybe
they had better heatsinks and fans earlier! Thinking of the "AMD

Well, no... heatsinks in particular have improved immensely. And
there's really no excuse for shipping a hot-running CPU without
at least a basic heatpipe cooler. HP has made them standard on
Xeon systems. But AMD's philosophy is why bother when gamers will
replace it with some fancy aftermarket cooling to compensate for
their overclocking habit.

Almost seems the Green-visored Ones would say to ship without any
heatsink/fan and save the money. Sell as an accessory and mark up the
price. ...Legal Department might be mooing as some sort of cooling is required and there would be a significant number of purchasers who would
rip off the yellow warning sticker and run without any cooling.

I have two of those cheap little HP heatpipe coolers, on the two
hottest CPUs, and they do a stellar job. First time I checked,
the i7-4820K (130W) was running at a barely-warm 82F. (Tho at the
moment SIW has lost its marbles and thinks it's 478F. Er, I don't
think so; I can put my finger on the cooler's foot and it's
barely warm.)

But you're one tough man! ...Can't find it now but at one time PSensor displayed one thermal sensor as a couple hundred degrees below zero!

Since swapping in the CoolerMaster EVO cooler the maximum CPU
temperature I've seen has been just below 120øF -- and considering there
are times when it's been 85ø here in the Computer Room probably not a
number.

Prior to swapping it out the room was a lot cooler -- upper 60's/lower
70's but the CPU would hit thermal cutoff (listed at 70øC/158øF but I
don't recall mine) -- doing the backup overnight was frequently sending
over the edge so I would be waking to a shut-down machine. "Oddly" the
backup would automatically restart in the morning and while running hot
didn't quite reach the I Quit stage. With the CoolerMaster EVO cooler
the max temp was 111øF.

approved" heatsink/fan combo which kept the FX-8320 processor
sufficiently cool as long as it didn't do much work.

..."as long as it didn't do too much work" is the very
description of inadequate cooling!

Maybe that was the reason for the multiple cores: you're getting too
hot, hand your processes over and take a break. <g>

And knock-on-wood there have been power glitches but no power outages so
far this year, "Partial-house" generator would be nice (I don't need to have everything running per normal when the power fails); might not be budgetable again this year as have to have the roof replaced (hail
damage and the insurance only paying a portion, though more than thought they would), plus the deck and porch needs replacing.

I've had the thought that a generator that could run off the
natural gas line would be a Good Thing.

It will be, though not falling through the deck seems to be a better
idea right now. <g>

As for power-up times, this one has been running for 17+ days since the
last reboot (probably a major update), the computer running the MythTV Backend probably closer to a couple of months.

Bullet would have the longest uptime here... <checking> 113 days.
So that's how long since the last power outage. Tho that's gotten
less frequent since they trimmed all the trees that could touch
and ground out a line when it rains.

They were trimming branches several years ago and dropped one across a
major transmission line (40,000, 400,000 volts - was up there) -- oops!

Not sure about the 'constant' kernel updates as I have LivePatch turned
on. ...Last I knew LivePatch won't work with a 32-bit system, though
sloppy advisement as just indicates something wrong with the log-in to Ubuntu1 instead of the real reason.

I don't know LivePatch? PCLOS does updates on the fly, but you
have to restart to load a newly-arrived kernel. There've been so
many this year that GRUB's list has become very long. I've never
had to boot to an older kernel, but not worth the bother to
remove 'em, either.

LivePatch is something relatively new -- think it started with or maybe
mid- Ubuntu 16.04. At first I didn't use it -- wait to have the others
test it out; every so often will see a notification an update has been applied; looking in Notifications History one was done 18 hours ago, so
around 2 p.m. yesterday. No idea what it updated, then three-quarters
of the time I had no idea what it was asking about (permission to apply
an update).

As for older kernels, I haven't had to go into that option in ages.
Handy to have just in case, though two or three is probably all needed.
OTOH, "if it ain't broke" (let me take crack at it! ).

KM> I give XP 4GB and other VMs 8GB, seems like since I've got it and
KM> the base OS doesn't need it, I might as well use it for
KM> something. Does make a considerable difference in performance...
KM> can't tell this XP from the real thing.
I'll have to play around later. Did check and I am currently running
4096 MB (so 4 GB) memory for this XP Virtual Machine. I do recall increasing to that amount definitely improved the response. Seems moreI

The default is something like 512mb which is a trifle cramped.

Here there was "noticeable sluggishness". I think just drawing out the display was took one or two coffee slurps.

have an issue with video sluggishness: Video Memory at 20 MB currently, which seems horrendously tiny but off-hand don't recall the reasoning.

8mb should suffice for XP that's not doing recentish gaming. I
think VirtualBox defaults it to 128mb which is overkill for basic
use.

OK, thanks. I vaguely recall playing with the video memory values and
don't recall why I settled on the 20 MB value.

Use the XP portion only for BBSing, so text and it seems to keeo up <g>.
The only video issue is if move a window around (in XP) and some
juttering: move-stop-move-stop-move-stop.... As I don't watch any
videos on the XP VM probably no need to alter, though may be worthwhile
to know for the Linux test VM.

That generally indicates something wrong with the video driver.
Try one of the other VM settings. Some get along with different
hosts better'n others, is my vague grok.

OK, will check that out also. I don't recall playing with the video
drivers as usually the default one is the best but of course also know
not always true! Will also clone the VM and experiment on the clone.

KM> I sometimes ask myself that. <g> Yeah, some are just for fun. I
KM> mean, I have WinXP, why do I need ReactOS? Because it's there!

Except not today. The crappy socket939 box that was reassigned to
ReactOS (cuz that AMD CPU don't do proper 64bit) decided to pop a capacitor, and it looks like it's the same general location as my
slightly newer one with the southbridge problem. Methinks there's
a reason Asus went to solid capacitors.

They were cheaper than warranty motherboard replacements?!

Sounds like a worthwhile reason to me! I'll admit to trying to keep
things the same aorund here just because it's easier and less confusing, plus I have no real need to run separate systems. Well, almost did
because 'needed' XP for the BBS and X10 (home automation) but those
could have been converted to a Linux utility. <Insert Round TuIt excuse here.>

Yeah, some of 'em are because I can, or because that hardware has
no better mission in life (this explains the box that I just left
with the Vista that came on it; they like each other, and I don't
need the system to do anything else, so it's a good reserve home
for Vista).

Makes sense to me!

Still debating what goes on Fireball, tho since chances are it
eventually replaces Bullet (when/if it ever dies) ... XP64! <g>

Don't you just love new operating systems?!

> Will you call that machine "Milk"? Then you could have Milk of Mageia!
KM> LOL! Sounds like a plan. :D
KM> Tho I have a (black) cat called Milk (Do you want Milk? do you
KM> want Milk2?) and they might get confused. <g>
I'd probably name the machine something else. Was sort of like when I
had Honey (RIP) - my Lhasa Apso I adopted: did some hyphenated commands

Awww...

Tnx...

so she (hopefully) wouldn't get confused: "you want to go outside- bathroom?", hopefully coupling the 'outside' concept of "do you want to
go outside" to play, go for a walk, etc., and not confuse with one of
saying we had to go to the bathroom.

Oh yes, they can make those connections well enough.

I sort of know dogs (and other animals) can connect thoughts and
understand or at least get the idea of what a human is saying, so the
'trick' is to minimize the 'foreign language' confusion. Sloppy example
would be "roll over" and offering a roll (the bread kind) with "do you
want a roll?". Would almost make sense on "do you want a roll?" the dog
would roll over.

..So "Mageia"..... Nothing coming even semi-clever coming to mind.

I still haven't named the 3 Dells anything clever, tho Larry,
Darryl, and Darryl comes to mind. <g>

Especially if two of the Dells were essentially identical!

KM> From userland, I don't really care so long as it works, and
KM> doesn't annoy me with lagging, crashes, or too many obvious
KM> vulnerabilities.
Which is more my side of the coin. I don't know, so I have to go with
what others offer. Ubuntu was selected out of the myriad of Linux
offerings because MythTV used it. And sort of based on my "let's not
get too mixed up" philosophy with MythTV being based on Ubuntu it sort
of made sense to learn or at least be more familiar with Ubuntu to troubleshoot MythTV.

So there's some method to your masochism. <g>

Yup! Just not always so apparent from the surface. (Why am I thinking
"deep down I'm really shallow"?)

> been a perfect candidate for an electric car when I needed to buy the
> current replacement years ago: local driving, so no need to be concerned
> about charging sites. Big block to purchase was the cost.)
KM> I live where the power goes out in bad weather. I like gas
KM> engines.

I also don't like the idea of trusting to an electric car when
there are stretches of up to 200 miles between power outlets.

Just bring along a power pack! <gg> Most of my travels I'd be within 20
miles of an outlet -- the one at the house. The store where I worked was
only five miles away, so a ten-mile round trip. Any long distance
travelling we always took the other car.

times and the transformer would have to be replaced. He asked if wanted
to have it replaced now -- Memorial Day, which was the beginning of
summer and we immediately said yes as preferred a long replacement
outage while it was cool as opposed to delaying and needing it done on a 100ø summer day or during a snowstorm.

Gee, ya think? :D

<chuckle> It was sort of a no-brainer. We did ask about checking with
the neighbours: three other houses get power from the same transformer;
the supervisor (guess so - he seemed to be in charge) said it didn't
matter as the pole was on our property so we got to make the decision.

As for powering a generator, the little ones tend to put out square
waves which will ruin electronics and some electrical. The bigger gas-

You can get a sine-wave convertor, tho.

Probably true; I sort of prefer 'doing it right' from the beginning, so
would be a small one with a sine wave output.

powered ones have the disadvantage of needing to be refilled, and so
shut down and cooled down so any spilt gas doesn't ignite. And int he

Natural gas. :D

middle of a rainstorm or snowstorm going to be a little grumbling about that. So probably would go with a natural gas powered generator as have

What did I just say? :D

NG here, plus at one time there was a NG air conditioner cooling the
house (!) -- previous owner of the house owned several gas stations and
one had to be demolished to make room for something -- I think the
building of the second I-74 Bridge, not to be confused with the new
bridges being built currently, which caused the demolishment of the replacement gas station. Anyway, makes sense here to have a NG
generator; now to have the necessary 'spare' money......

There's the real problem! Maybe we'll just sit in the dark after
all.

Oh, so you think natural gas would be the better way to go?! Money is
and isn't the problem: having enough spare money for an emergency is
sort of a requirement. Yes, loans can be done; will see about maybe
combining the deck replacement with the NG generator. Just got the roof replaced (hail damage) and while the insurance covered most of that
didn't cover it all (so the need for some 'spare' money).

Around $1.25 per year -- not bad! My systems have had to 'go up'
because of MythTV usage -- MythTV not being the hog but the high
definition playback is. Standard definition I could probably get by
with a 486 (guessing) but why?

Actually, I found a P3-500 is about the minimum for decoding
DVDs, and it's real borderline (has spasms of being unable to
keep up). The old DVDs default to what, 720p? so there's your
baseline. The P233 could not play MP4s without a lot of
stuttering and staggering, and DVDs were right out.

Yes on the 720 resolution; anything higher is an up-conversion. Was
looking at the notes I have on one of Frontend computers: AMD (!) - got
it several years back; video card will output at least 1080 because
that's what the max the local TV stations use. (Know NBC uses 1080
while FOX uses 720; dont' recall ABC and CBS off-hand.)

Also half-remembering at least though MythTV version 0.28 it almost
didn't matter what the CPU specs were as long as halfway current as
loaded in to RAM and used the GPU in the video card.

KM> That kind of bug typically comes from the system BIOS. They don't
KM> actually know over 64gb (or sometimes 137gb), but will pretend
KM> they do until data exceeds that boundary.
In this instance definately was the hard drive: left for work one
morning and the system was fine; came home and -- what happened?!
Eventually pulled the hard drive and another system interpreted it as
the smaller size.

Oh, there's an Ooopsie, then. There was a bug in some of that era
that would crop up and do something like that, but I never
encountered it. You're special. <g>

Thank you! :) I don't know if it was a bug -- seems the hard drive was
old enough that wasn't the cause. I always thought it was more like a RW
arm or head fell off or wire broke. No reasoning other than seemed like
a good excuse to me.

Actually, tho... if it was FAT32, there's your problem. Unstable
once the data exceeds 32GB. I *have* experienced that one.

"250 GB" seems to be coming to mind, though that also was my go-to size
for a lot of the computers around here.

I'd also guess if the hard drive was reformatted to something capable of greater than the 32GB limit it would have brought the drive back to
life. Sans data, but would have been seen as 128 GB, 240 GB, whatever.
I do recall trying to get the original capacity back with various FATs
but unable to, and the size always seemed to be reported about the same.

Have read where some businesses' software can't be upgraded to something more current just because it doesn't exist so they have to stick with antique hardware to run the software.

Yeah, lot of that with specialty ISA cards for industrial
applications.

I wonder if anything I have in the basement is worthwhile?! And now
that I typed that can't recall what I have; know I put some old stuff
out for electronic recycle several months ago.

As for you seven 1GB sticks, odd, but semi-sorta makes sense: I have an
old Lenovo system with came with three 1 GB sticks -- four slots and the

To make matters odder, the seven sticks are server RAM
(registered ECC).

That is getting odder!

fourth slot was empty. Lenovo said the system could use up to 8 GB (4x 2GB), so eventually upgraded -- and the system wouldn't boot. Fiddle- fiddle. Eventually just let it run with 2+2+1+1 (6 GB) as didn't seem
to like a 2GB stick in the 'upper' slots.

Some of 'em are cranky, tho might your second pair were
single-sided or ECC, either of which would not work, tho
single-sided sometimes not works in creative ways (shows up as
half the size, or even smaller).

Right. The single-sided vs. double0sided did come to mind, and I tried
various combinations/placements of the 2 GB sticks. With another
computer several years ago did did have the issue where upgraded and was
given a physically double-sided stick along with a physically
single-sided stick. The single-sided one was detected as half the
value, I think when paired with any of the double-sided sticks.
Returned (was brick-and-mortar), explained my problem and the guy was familiar, got a physically matching pair and had no problems.

I have an Amptron motherboard (quality-wise from well beneath the
barrel) with a P4-2.4GHz CPU, and it has thoroughly weird ideas
about RAM... 2 slots and theoretically it supports 2GB (or was it
4GB, I forget) but will only boot with a 512mb and 256mb -- AND
they have to NOT be the same speed or timing specs. Matched pair
= no boot!

You win that quirkiness contest!!

Guess a good idea to keep the old RAM from discarded/upgraded systems
just in case ever needed.

> True, though like you said some of the programmes check to see Swap is
> available, though seems like they check for a Swap partition is present
> but not necessarily the size of the partition.
KM> Some do, some don't. Photoshop is particularly stupid; it insists
KM> on a swapfile, but doesn't check if it's big enough before trying
KM> to use it.
Weird. Would guess a section of old code they haven't figured how to
get around.

More like Adobe has some swaths of general incompetence. Took 'em
til the most recent version to figure out that Illustrator's
menus really should respect system settings for large monitors,
instead of becoming so small you need a microscope to even FIND
'em. (Photoshop at least had a setting to increase menu size, and
that sorta works, tho still doesn't respect system settings.)
Only reason I can think of is that to this day it must have
inherited menu handling from its Aldus ancestors, built for
Win3.1, where there was as yet no real standard for menu size or
font handling and lots of apps were still DIYing.

I've play a bit with photo format converting software (MP4 to AVI) and rejected at least one because the icons were illegible. Hard to use
that way!

Oops! ...I sort of stopped using smaller hard drives on the various
MythTV Frontends as they took a relatively long time to boot.

Until relatively recently, linux had poor to absent disk caching,
which made it glacial on hard drives with small cache.

I don't recall the cache numbers but would guess a decent amount as were usually Western Digitals or Seagates. The brand doesn't guarantee
decent cache amounts, just a general guideline, and wasn't an off-brand.

Also used the suggested amount during set-up as figured they knew better
than I. Know in a few systems I had two hard drives (one for the OS and
one for Data) and would 'test install' on the OS drive to get the
numbers: at the time more than one hard drive required all manual configuration and I used the test install to get them.

KM> Nope, just doing I/O stupidly, I think.
Microsoft: where we write a new operating system, test, release, then
find it doesn't work right so we create a new OS. Profits are great!!

Haha... I wonder what they plan to do with their cloud OS, since
they've said Win10 will be the last version of Windows. If they
want everyone to rush right out and buy it, just slap XP's
interface on Win10... that way they don't need another version of Windows!!

Plus cheaper as have the developing is done! I've not been paying all
that close attention to Windows but thought "Windows 10" was going to be
their last, though still have progressive upgrades and verions --
sounded confusing as "I have Windows 10" "Which one?" "Windows 10!"
"Which Windows 10?" and "I just upgraded my Windows 10 to Windows 10!" (Huh?!)

> > Sounds a bit like some of the But Firsts around here!
> KM> I have way too many of these But Firsts laying around... today's
> KM> was Mow the Durn Lawn.
> You forgot "Before It Turns To Hay"!
KM> Too late! Tho I did finally get Jurassic Weedpark under control..
KM> mostly...
The weather here has been ideal for growing grass: the weather guy
mentioned some yards needing to be mowed three times in one week!

Oh yeah, been like that here too... today we (me and the big
goat) chopped weeds. Tomorrow, the rest of the seedy grass...

Cut the grass before the roofers came for last Monday -- could have gone another day or two but easier to find nails and other debris in short
grass -- as it was we found a brass fitting for the nail gun their
magnetic pick up missed ('cause brass isn't magnetic!). Not sure how
they missed it as was bright brass (actually looked like it hadn't even
been used yet).

Yesterday (Tuesday) they finished the roof -- whoever calculated didn't
do the figuring correctly; wasn't the roofers as they were ones to
discover the shortage and called their boss to try to get the balance
that afternoon (Monday). Also Cristobal hiked through the area
yesterday; this morning cool but huuuumid, and another rain system
should be wandering through by noon. ...By tomorrow (Thursday) might
have been needing a scythe and sickle to get through!

¯ ®
¯ Barry_Martin_3@ ®
¯ @Q.COM ®
¯ ®


... Procrastinate NOW!
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Hi Ky!

KM> Someday your prints will come.
KM> -- motto of the serial printer.
<Hiding in the shadows> "Psst! CTS?" "Huh?" "Is it Clear to Send?"
Or maybe as Mr. Miaggi <sp> could say to Grasshopper: "XON, XOFF...
XON, XOFF...."

<falls over laughing>
Wait, I don't have a backup??

That's what happens when you sit on a stool: nothing to lean against!

KM> Xeon systems. But AMD's philosophy is why bother when gamers will
KM> replace it with some fancy aftermarket cooling to compensate for
KM> their overclocking habit.
Almost seems the Green-visored Ones would say to ship without any heatsink/fan and save the money. Sell as an accessory and mark up the price. ...Legal Department might be mooing as some sort of cooling is required and there would be a significant number of purchasers who would
rip off the yellow warning sticker and run without any cooling.

And there's the fact that like everyone else making hardware,
their real money comes from selling to OEMs. Yonder HP/Compaq
(the one with Vista) has an Asus motherboard with an AMD CPU,
functionally identical to Westworld (another someone gift me),
except that the HP BIOS is locked, so it's stuck with the CPU it
has (otherwise it would be somewhat upgradeable), while Westworld
got an upgrade. Anyway, OEMs don't want to have to piddle around,
they just want a matched unit.

It does help take some of the guesswork out of customer support!

KM> I have two of those cheap little HP heatpipe coolers, on the two
KM> hottest CPUs, and they do a stellar job. First time I checked,
KM> the i7-4820K (130W) was running at a barely-warm 82F. (Tho at the
KM> moment SIW has lost its marbles and thinks it's 478F. Er, I don't
KM> think so; I can put my finger on the cooler's foot and it's
KM> barely warm.)
But you're one tough man! ...Can't find it now but at one time PSensor displayed one thermal sensor as a couple hundred degrees below zero!

Wow, now that's good cooling! <g>

I was impressed! ...PSensor also says my CPU fan is rotating at zero
RPM - hmm! Obvious a wrong configuration somewhere but sort of low on
the priority list to figure out. Is plugged in to the correct
motherboard socket. I'd rather the CPU temperature be displaying right.

Since swapping in the CoolerMaster EVO cooler the maximum CPU
temperature I've seen has been just below 120øF -- and considering there are times when it's been 85ø here in the Computer Room probably not a number.

Yeah, that's about the improvement I'd expect. IOW, down to
normal. <g>

Yes, definitely much-much better! The Computer Room should be cooler to
allow a better environment temperature -- it's not in the budget to run
things that cold!

Prior to swapping it out the room was a lot cooler -- upper 60's/lower
70's but the CPU would hit thermal cutoff (listed at 70øC/158øF but I don't recall mine) -- doing the backup overnight was frequently sending
over the edge so I would be waking to a shut-down machine. "Oddly" the backup would automatically restart in the morning and while running hot didn't quite reach the I Quit stage. With the CoolerMaster EVO cooler
the max temp was 111øF.

No idea on that.. why should backups done at night run hotter?
Um... are you sure another PC wasn't sneaking upstairs and
getting it on with the backup system?? that would explain the
heat...

Heck ,they some don't have to sneak around: they're already up here!
...Maybe that explains the Raspberry PI I didn't remember having! <g>

As for the running hotter overnight, no didn't make any sense to me
either. It would have made more sense to have problems during the
morning when doing the backup after the boot and I was usually on the
system. Just before swapping the heat sink assembly I turned off the
automated back ups temporarily (figured once too many times and
bye-bye!) and used a manual copy routine to an external hard drive (USB
3.0) -- no problems. Warmed up some but wasn't to the dangerous level.
No ZIPping going on? A little bit slower data transfer? (The backup used
my Ethernet LAN to connect to the destination drive.)

> approved" heatsink/fan combo which kept the FX-8320 processor
> sufficiently cool as long as it didn't do much work.
KM> ..."as long as it didn't do too much work" is the very
KM> description of inadequate cooling!
Maybe that was the reason for the multiple cores: you're getting too
hot, hand your processes over and take a break. <g>

Haha, that would be AMD's reasoning, all right. <g>

I just can't quite gather together why if AMD is so into gaming which
does a lot of math why the CPU cooling was so chintzy. Oh well, just go
back to Intel. Maybe daisychain together a few RPi 4's and go that way!

KM> I've had the thought that a generator that could run off the
KM> natural gas line would be a Good Thing.
It will be, though not falling through the deck seems to be a better
idea right now. <g>

No, really? :D

OTOH the generator could run the electric winch to pull one of us out of
the hole!

So I went looking for "natural gas generator sine wave" and first
thing I came to... https://www.chainsawjournal.com/firman-generators-reviews/
I'd never even heard of these, but they start around $300.

I never heard of them either -- will have to see what they offer and if
sold and serviced locally.

Ideally tho, one would want it hardwired into the house, and
vented into the furnace flue.

Hmm: I sort of thought they'd had to be outside. Inside would have
advantages of being protected and no mice making a winter home like last
year in the air conditioning compressor. Here might have to be vented
through the water heater's flue: it vents up through the roof while the furnace vents horizontally through the wall. That's the installer's
problem.

Some whining from Consumer Reports: https://www.consumerreports.org/inverter-generators/pros-and-cons- of-inverter-g
nerators/

I'll look at your links later -- tons of ILink messages today and have
another little project I need to get done for Moday morning. Yes, have
the weekend, but invariably something urgent pops up so I don't like
waiting until the last minute.

Interesting video from another manufacturer I never heard of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsRGKRzLQJM

Interesting that they're using Honda engines... back when I first
looked into a generator (never bought one), Honda generators were
just a Briggs & Stratton generator in a prettied up case (for an additional $1200).

That's interesting! Older information I had was the Honda engines were extremely quite, and that was one of the reasons they were used at the
John Deere Classic (golf tournament).

They were trimming branches several years ago and dropped one across a
major transmission line (40,000, 400,000 volts - was up there) -- oops!

OOOPS!

<chuckle> Really. :) They were supposed to be trimming branches to
prevent that kind of problem, not cause it!

KM> I don't know LivePatch? PCLOS does updates on the fly, but you
KM> have to restart to load a newly-arrived kernel. There've been so
KM> many this year that GRUB's list has become very long. I've never
KM> had to boot to an older kernel, but not worth the bother to
KM> remove 'em, either.
LivePatch is something relatively new -- think it started with or maybe
mid- Ubuntu 16.04. At first I didn't use it -- wait to have the others
test it out; every so often will see a notification an update has been applied; looking in Notifications History one was done 18 hours ago, so around 2 p.m. yesterday. No idea what it updated, then three-quarters
of the time I had no idea what it was asking about (permission to apply
an update).

Sometimes I bother looking through the Info list, more often not,
as I don't have any apps locked (not updateable) on that system,
so it can do whatever it likes.

I'll sometimes look to see what it is doing, a little bit of nosieness
and a little bit of maybe I'll learn something. LIS in other places, I
pretty much assume they are updating to fix a problem or make it better. Occasionally 'poop occurs': an update around two years ago caused a
problem with certain nVidea video drivers; one was on a system down-
stairs -- ended up rolling GRUB back to the previous version; a few days
later the problem was corrected.

As for older kernels, I haven't had to go into that option in ages.
Handy to have just in case, though two or three is probably all needed. OTOH, "if it ain't broke" (let me take crack at it! ).

Pretty much! Then again, it's kinda interesting to have the list,
another reason to just leave it be. It default boots to whichever
one I picked last anyway, so no nuisance after the first restart post-update.

I looked yesterday to see what old kernels I had as there was a semi-
large power failure -- automated system reported 769 people affected when
I called in a couple minutes after the power failed. I have the current
kernal and a back up.

> I'll have to play around later. Did check and I am currently running
> 4096 MB (so 4 GB) memory for this XP Virtual Machine. I do recall
> increasing to that amount definitely improved the response. Seems moreI
KM> The default is something like 512mb which is a trifle cramped.
Here there was "noticeable sluggishness". I think just drawing out the display was took one or two coffee slurps.

Yeah, that's what I'd expect! I'm not sure how it handles
swapfile but if present, it's gotta be stuffed in there too.

Rainy day computer fun!

> have an issue with video sluggishness: Video Memory at 20 MB currently,
> which seems horrendously tiny but off-hand don't recall the reasoning.
KM> 8mb should suffice for XP that's not doing recentish gaming. I
KM> think VirtualBox defaults it to 128mb which is overkill for basic
KM> use.
OK, thanks. I vaguely recall playing with the video memory values and
don't recall why I settled on the 20 MB value.

I would do a power of 2, so use 32 instead of 20. Thinking this
is more likely to align with what the OS expects of video RAM. I
just leave it at 128mb since I have the RAM to spare and that
should cover all possible use cases.

OK -- Yes, 20 MB is a odd value. I don't recall where I got it from .

KM> Except not today. The crappy socket939 box that was reassigned to
KM> ReactOS (cuz that AMD CPU don't do proper 64bit) decided to pop a
KM> capacitor, and it looks like it's the same general location as my
KM> slightly newer one with the southbridge problem. Methinks there's
KM> a reason Asus went to solid capacitors.
They were cheaper than warranty motherboard replacements?!

Oh, these never fail in warranty... probably more like was
cheaper than the bad reputation from lots of fails in systems
owned by noisy gamers!

And they're not just cheering loudly because they won!

KM> Still debating what goes on Fireball, tho since chances are it
KM> eventually replaces Bullet (when/if it ever dies) ... XP64! <g>
Don't you just love new operating systems?!

NO!!

<chuckle> I do tend to follow the old BBSers' "rule": never buy a
version ending in zero.

> so she (hopefully) wouldn't get confused: "you want to go outside-
> bathroom?", hopefully coupling the 'outside' concept of "do you want to
> go outside" to play, go for a walk, etc., and not confuse with one of
> saying we had to go to the bathroom.
KM> Oh yes, they can make those connections well enough.
I sort of know dogs (and other animals) can connect thoughts and
understand or at least get the idea of what a human is saying, so the 'trick' is to minimize the 'foreign language' confusion. Sloppy example would be "roll over" and offering a roll (the bread kind) with "do you
want a roll?". Would almost make sense on "do you want a roll?" the dog would roll over.

Actually... if you just talk to them a lot, they will learn
natural language about as well as a human child of similar
intelligence. A very bright dog is about on par with a bright 6
year old, or maybe a little better, and can understand
consequences about as well too (that being a good definition of
functional intelligence); a dumb dog is more like an early
toddler. Average is probably around same as 3 year old human.
(But I've bred for intelligence for so long that merely-average
dogs now seem retarded.) The idea that it's just a reflexive
response to a familiar sound is nonsense.

I've had two dogs, collie and Lhasa Apso, so not even approaching a
decent study size, but both seemed to know what they were doing in more
than a "if I do your trick I get a treat" way.

> ..So "Mageia"..... Nothing coming even semi-clever coming to mind.
KM> I still haven't named the 3 Dells anything clever, tho Larry,
KM> Darryl, and Darryl comes to mind. <g>
Especially if two of the Dells were essentially identical!

Three of 'em, they're triplets! Tho oddly, despite being
'identical' they're not quite the same in subtle ways, which
affect how Windows runs. Which is why one got picked to stay
Win7; it ran best.

Makes sense to use them to their talents. Around here it sort of would
have made sense to have identical computers as most run 'just' MythTV.
Didn't and doesn't work out that way as some fit better in a
vertical/upright orientation and some in a horizontal orientation. Also
not all bought together: had an old computer, used that; upgraded my
system, used that for another function.

> get too mixed up" philosophy with MythTV being based on Ubuntu it sort
> of made sense to learn or at least be more familiar with Ubuntu to
> troubleshoot MythTV.
KM> So there's some method to your masochism. <g>
Yup! Just not always so apparent from the surface. (Why am I thinking "deep down I'm really shallow"?)

You need to refill your pool. <g>

<chuckle> We have a decorative pond in the back yard, submurged pump to
a couple of items. One is the 'classic' statue of a boy straddling an
urn and the water comes out the urn. Well it sort of looks like the kid
is urinating (along with a case of elephantiasis), so naturally I call
him "Pee Boy".

> KM> I live where the power goes out in bad weather. I like gas
> KM> engines.
KM> I also don't like the idea of trusting to an electric car when
KM> there are stretches of up to 200 miles between power outlets.
Just bring along a power pack! <gg> Most of my travels I'd be within 20 miles of an outlet -- the one at the house. The store where I worked was only five miles away, so a ten-mile round trip. Any long distance travelling we always took the other car.

I need an 'other car' but only because the F350 is 1) a pain to
park, 2) not 4 wheel drive (does well on ice, not in snow), and
3) the suspension is so stiff that washboards make it go off the
road sideways, so back roads wandering is right out. (World's
best highway and towing truck, but NOT a dirt road truck.) So
I've been looking for something like an older Explorer or Ranger,
but so far no joy (at least in my very low price range)... older
cuz I want it up on legs so easy to put chains on, and the newer
ones (aside from being ugly) sit too low.

Sitting low also has a potential problem with getting stuck in ruts, or
at least knocking off underneath parts.

<chuckle> It was sort of a no-brainer. We did ask about checking with
the neighbours: three other houses get power from the same transformer;
the supervisor (guess so - he seemed to be in charge) said it didn't
matter as the pole was on our property so we got to make the decision.

Haha, there's a perk!

Really!! Not sure if it was the truth but got things going. The pole is without question on our property as far as north-south goes; east-west questionable: I not 100% where the property line is -- everyone trims up
to the fences but at the corner no fences were installed as was a clump
of natural, maybe planted shrubbery and everyone has just sor tof
followed a line and never had a problem.

> As for powering a generator, the little ones tend to put out square
> waves which will ruin electronics and some electrical. The bigger gas-
KM> You can get a sine-wave convertor, tho.
Probably true; I sort of prefer 'doing it right' from the beginning, so would be a small one with a sine wave output.

See above...this seems to be more the default than not anymore.

Yes, will look at those leads - thanks! ...I'd rather spend the $1,200
on maybe a bigger model to run more of the house (100% whole house just
seems like overkill), or more likely an upgrade while replacing the deck
and porch.

KM> Actually, I found a P3-500 is about the minimum for decoding
KM> DVDs, and it's real borderline (has spasms of being unable to
KM> keep up). The old DVDs default to what, 720p? so there's your
KM> baseline. The P233 could not play MP4s without a lot of
KM> stuttering and staggering, and DVDs were right out.
Yes on the 720 resolution; anything higher is an up-conversion. Was

Ah, I was not imagining things. <g>

Contrary to assumptions we have! <bseg>

looking at the notes I have on one of Frontend computers: AMD (!) - got
it several years back; video card will output at least 1080 because
that's what the max the local TV stations use. (Know NBC uses 1080
while FOX uses 720; dont' recall ABC and CBS off-hand.)

Don't look at me, I ain't got no TV!

Sometimes just as well!

Also half-remembering at least though MythTV version 0.28 it almost
didn't matter what the CPU specs were as long as halfway current as
loaded in to RAM and used the GPU in the video card.

Pretty much anything that can run linux well enough to not tear
your hair out is enough for video. Linux really needs at least a
multicore 2GHz system (unless you're using a minimal distro like
Puppy) to run decently, which is about 20x more horsepower than
the P3-500. So should be totally no worries there.

Pretty much right. I'll admit to sort of wanting a 'high performance'
system because I don't to wait. A short bit of a wait is fine -- the
ol'd "aw com'on - it's time to upgrade: tagline sort of applies to me. Combination of wanting to keep things inexpensive but also willing to
spend money now so I don't have to spend it again later. (Get a video
card with specs just above what I need now so I don't have to buy the
upgrade later, then wonder what I do with the old one, for example.)

And as sort of a tangent: appears the RPi 4 with 4 GB RAM will run
MythTV v 30 just fine wirelessly. I think they separated the WiFi from
the USB -- something got changed and removed a bottleneck.

KM> Oh, there's an Ooopsie, then. There was a bug in some of that era
KM> that would crop up and do something like that, but I never
KM> encountered it. You're special. <g>
Thank you! :) I don't know if it was a bug -- seems the hard drive was
old enough that wasn't the cause. I always thought it was more like a RW arm or head fell off or wire broke. No reasoning other than seemed like
a good excuse to me.

Um, that would simply quit, and make clacking noises as the arm
bangs back and forth looking for it knows not what. (Yes, I've
seen one with the head detached... that's exactly what it did.)

OK. Did sort of figure I'd hear something rattling around so probably
not what happened.

KM> Actually, tho... if it was FAT32, there's your problem. Unstable
KM> once the data exceeds 32GB. I *have* experienced that one.
"250 GB" seems to be coming to mind, though that also was my go-to size
for a lot of the computers around here.
I'd also guess if the hard drive was reformatted to something capable of greater than the 32GB limit it would have brought the drive back to
life. Sans data, but would have been seen as 128 GB, 240 GB, whatever.
I do recall trying to get the original capacity back with various FATs
but unable to, and the size always seemed to be reported about the same.

This is why we format things NTFS; it doesn't have this silly
bug. Yep, discovering the data wrapping bug was when I stopped
using FAT32 for anything newer than Win98.

I probably did try NTFS. May have even tried something 'oddball' like
Amiga and then back to FAT32/NTFS/something compatible -- something non- Microsoft to 'overwrite' everything and then bring it back to something Microsoft-speak.

> Have read where some businesses' software can't be upgraded to something
> more current just because it doesn't exist so they have to stick with
> antique hardware to run the software.
KM> Yeah, lot of that with specialty ISA cards for industrial
KM> applications.
I wonder if anything I have in the basement is worthwhile?! And now
that I typed that can't recall what I have; know I put some old stuff
out for electronic recycle several months ago.

Was a day when NASA scarfed up 486s... utterly known set of bugs
and features, a good thing when the PC tech is half a solar
system away!

Yes: stick with what's known! Another second of processing isn't going
to make too much of a difference after the signal takes a couple of
minutes to get there!

You can actually buy an i7 motherboard with ISA slots now, made
by DFI so it's probably pretty good. They sell 'em direct for
about $300. If Moonbase's board ever dies (P4 with ISA slots),
I'm lookin' at one of these.

Makes sense! Sounds a bit odd as "what uses ISA now?" ...Hmm! I'll
have to check what I have in the basement: I have some old-old
daughtercards. (Wrote myself a note -- will check eventually.)

> As for you seven 1GB sticks, odd, but semi-sorta makes sense: I have an
> old Lenovo system with came with three 1 GB sticks -- four slots and the
KM> To make matters odder, the seven sticks are server RAM
KM> (registered ECC).
That is getting odder!

And no more useful!

Sometimes the oddity is more fun than the usefulness!

KM> Some of 'em are cranky, tho might your second pair were
KM> single-sided or ECC, either of which would not work, tho
KM> single-sided sometimes not works in creative ways (shows up as
KM> half the size, or even smaller).
Right. The single-sided vs. double-sided did come to mind, and I tried various combinations/placements of the 2 GB sticks. With another
computer several years ago did did have the issue where upgraded and was given a physically double-sided stick along with a physically
single-sided stick. The single-sided one was detected as half the
value, I think when paired with any of the double-sided sticks.
Returned (was brick-and-mortar), explained my problem and the guy was familiar, got a physically matching pair and had no problems.

Yep, that was commonly how it went!

I had gotten home with the first pair (SS + DS), looked at 'em - maybe
even through the packaging - and said to myself 'oh-oh!'. Figured I'd
try -- maybe luck out. Nope.

KM> I have an Amptron motherboard (quality-wise from well beneath the
KM> barrel) with a P4-2.4GHz CPU, and it has thoroughly weird ideas
KM> about RAM... 2 slots and theoretically it supports 2GB (or was it
KM> 4GB, I forget) but will only boot with a 512mb and 256mb -- AND
KM> they have to NOT be the same speed or timing specs. Matched pair
KM> = no boot!
You win that quirkiness contest!!
Guess a good idea to keep the old RAM from discarded/upgraded systems
just in case ever needed.

Some HPLaserJets take standard PC RAM... that's where some of my
old 72pin SIMMs went, maxing out RAM in an HPLJ. I had it, so why
not?

Agree!

> Oops! ...I sort of stopped using smaller hard drives on the various
> MythTV Frontends as they took a relatively long time to boot.
KM> Until relatively recently, linux had poor to absent disk caching,
KM> which made it glacial on hard drives with small cache.
I don't recall the cache numbers but would guess a decent amount as were usually Western Digitals or Seagates. The brand doesn't guarantee
decent cache amounts, just a general guideline, and wasn't an off-brand.

Actually.. WDs had decent HD caching back to about the 2GB era;
Seagates still sucked as of 40GB (they were supposed to have
some, but it apparently did not work), but seem to be better
since. However, Seagates still die in random and unexpected ways,
which WDs typically do not.

Quite a while back I read where Western Digital purchased another well-
known hard drive manufacturer and is (or was) still putting out drives
under that name brand. Where I have a choice I think I'll stick with
the the WDs.

I don't buy Seagate, because of the higher fail rate. Will use
one if it falls on my head (ouch!) but won't pay for 'em.
Backblaze's stats back up <g> my contention that that Seagate
sucks.

My overall philosophy is to spend a little extra money and have it last.
There are times when a 'patch job' is being done and cheapest is good
enough, generally that bites one in the butt.

> KM> Nope, just doing I/O stupidly, I think.
> Microsoft: where we write a new operating system, test, release, then
> find it doesn't work right so we create a new OS. Profits are great!!
KM> Haha... I wonder what they plan to do with their cloud OS, since
KM> they've said Win10 will be the last version of Windows. If they
KM> want everyone to rush right out and buy it, just slap XP's
KM> interface on Win10... that way they don't need another version of
KM> Windows!!
Plus cheaper as have the developing is done! I've not been paying all
that close attention to Windows but thought "Windows 10" was going to be their last, though still have progressive upgrades and verions --
sounded confusing as "I have Windows 10" "Which one?" "Windows 10!"
"Which Windows 10?" and "I just upgraded my Windows 10 to Windows 10!" (Huh?!)

Oh yeah, that's enough to drive men mad. I have Win10-early on
Westworld (in fact the way Win10 reminded me of the original
movie is why that box got the name), and it is not much like
Win10-current that's sitting unloved on one of the Dells. And
Win10 has definitely not improved, some 10,000 builds later...
all it's done is get more and more annoying. Hopefully KDE will
stop copying this "modern" BS that's wrecking computer
desktops... Trinity is XP-like but not as stable.

To me it seems like there is some advantage to making Linux/the various flavours look something like Windows as that's what people are used to,
so the 'conversion' isn't such a shock to the average Joe. OTOH as you
stated there are quite a few things which no matter how common don't
work and it is not a good idea to follow "just because". And then there
are a few things where Linux has to follow to get the hardware to work: company has a contract with Microsoft and can't have a Microsoft version
and a Linux version, or better yet an open version. (I know: sloppy terminology.)

Cut the grass before the roofers came for last Monday -- could have gone

Oh, THAT's what I'm supposed to be doing... there's another hour
of daylight, and it's cooled off a bit.. need the mosquito gear,
tho...

Your lawn mower has a mosquito gear? Ours has rabbit and turtle speeds!

another day or two but easier to find nails and other debris in short
grass -- as it was we found a brass fitting for the nail gun their
magnetic pick up missed ('cause brass isn't magnetic!). Not sure how
they missed it as was bright brass (actually looked like it hadn't even
been used yet).

Sweet :D

Better than to have found with the lawn mower blade!

Yesterday (Tuesday) they finished the roof -- whoever calculated didn't
do the figuring correctly; wasn't the roofers as they were ones to
discover the shortage and called their boss to try to get the balance
that afternoon (Monday). Also Cristobal hiked through the area

Who is Cristobal, a used hurricane?

I think it was 'just' a tropical depression, though made a mess in Texas
and parts of the South. By the time it got up here to Iowa was pretty
much just an extended rain event -- winds weren't all that bad -- 30-40
MPH? Moved the branches around pretty good on the trees.



¯ ®
¯ Barry_Martin_3@ ®


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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

> KM> <falls over laughing>
> KM> Wait, I don't have a backup??
> That's what happens when you sit on a stool: nothing to lean against!
KM> These durn two-legged stools....
I wonder if that's why it was so cheap?!

30% off!!
> I had read about Conky and didn't like something: maybe it was too much

on the screen, not leaving enough room to work.

It's transparent, and configurable, but I just don't like having numbers
on the screen, because I have Obsessive Reading Disorder. <g>

KM> Actually know someone who used an AMD CPU (this was in the late
KM> K6-2 era) to heat the garage apartment -- in Seattle, so not deep
KM> cold but not year-round toasty either.

Sounds like a lot of hot air to me! <bseg> There have been times when
the air has felt rather warm comoing out of various coputers!

Yeah, was rather noticeable in the desert... not so much here in South Siberia!

KM> This could be... which reminds me, ExplainingComputers has
KM> another RPi video today. He's a very pleasant chap and has a way
KM> of making stuff easily understood.

I'll take a look some time. One thing I hope he explains and reminds frequently is with the RPI 4 to use the HDMI port nearest the power
connector -- the other port won't give sound if the first one is empty.
I'm not the first one to have had that simple problem.

Leave him a comment about it!

KM> Sound policy!

alsa or Pulseaudio?!

Whichever one doesn't crash!

> bye-bye!) and used a manual copy routine to an external hard drive (USB
> 3.0) -- no problems. Warmed up some but wasn't to the dangerous level.
> No ZIPping going on? A little bit slower data transfer? (The backup used
> my Ethernet LAN to connect to the destination drive.)
KM> Hmm. Was something going through the USB port? If I want to see
KM> Bullet's southbridge chip hit 220F, all I need do is save a
KM> torrent directly to the USB external hard drive... I don't know
KM> if southbridge also controls onboard network ports but I'd guess
KM> that was the problem. Except more intense when it was the NIC
KM> being used, thus way more data than USB.

AFAIK nothing was using the USB port at the time the backup was being
made via Ethernet. (The original way when the CPU overheated.) USB
devices were connected just because they were connected during the day
but were not in active use.

No, I mean does the network chip also send data through the southbridge?
I'd guess it does, and that heated up the chip, and the system.

Which, come to think of it, might be why downloads heat up Bullet a lot
more than local file movement. (WinAmp runs permanently to keep the #1 external drive from going to sleep... settings util won't speak to it,
and this was a doable workaround. Then again that's just a read every
3-5 minutes, no writes.)

That was one of my original reasons for delays with installing the CoolerMaster heatsink: if I was going to have to go through all the
bother of removing the motherboard to add the heatsink I figured I may
as well build a new system since the original one was misbehaving. Not
like I'm made of money, but sometimes if ripping something apart may as
well go all the way. Fortunately there was an access hole in the
chassis.

Nice when the holes are convenient! you'd think it'd be a Generally Good
Idea if only for better venting under the CPU, but it's far from universal.

LIS I'll be going back to Intel. As for fins on the AMD-approved
heatsink, is almost seemed like there were too many spaced too closely:
this place isn't dirty but dust would get caught in the fins and clog
them up, further reducing the limited cooling it had. I will admit I
haven't been inside since swapping in the new one.

In my observation, more fins too close is better than too few fins far
apart. Tho I don't know what's optimal; surely some engineer has done
the math.

> back to Intel. Maybe daisychain together a few RPi 4's and go that way!
KM> RPis are sure cheap enough now. Oh, the ExplainingComputers guy
KM> has a whole series on single-board computers, RPis and others.
KM> Some are really cheap (ten bucks).

Have scanned through articles on the those -- interesting but sort of
staying away/staying with the RPi's as used to them and the spare parts thinking: can physically swap the unit, or create the SD card on one and
put it in the other (well, need to be the same generation).

Not a bad choice... some other brands have interesting features or
add-ons, but the RPis seem to be most competent overall. I don't have
any SBCs so here it's all theoretical anyway!

Some of the cheap used Thin Client units seem to be pretty good and do
much the same work, main advantage is compatible with x86/x64 instead of
only running ARM OSs. And some can be considerably upgraded.

KM> Oh, for that you just need two poles and a rope (mechanical
KM> winch). <g>

I don't think I know any Polish people!

Well then, you'll just have to stay in that hole!

> KM> https://www.chainsawjournal.com/firman-generators-reviews/
> KM> I'd never even heard of these, but they start around $300.
> I never heard of them either -- will have to see what they offer and if
> sold and serviced locally.
KM> Now that last is the important part!
<chuckle> Yup! Things _will_ fail!

Speak of the devil, Costco has a Firman generator on sale right now.
Flex fuel (gasoline, natural gas, propane).

OK yes, that's making sense. Part of the problem with basement
installation here might be finding a place for the generator. Half of
the basement is finished, the other half what's supposed to be a
kitchenette, laundry, my Electronics Workbench Area. The water heater
and furnace is in there too. Presumeably they want some space around
the generator like they do for the furnace.

Shouldn't need much, given they pack 'em into cubbyholes in RVs.

KM> However, also no real reason they can't sit outdoors in their own
KM> little shelter, much as central air conditioners do. I'd consider
KM> a longer tailpipe to get fumes up away from the house, tho.

Why? Carbon monoxide doesn't smell! <gg> If the generator was placed in

Supposedly not, but actually it does have a sort of dirty-damp scent.
(Then again, I'm somewhere waaaaaaay over beyond Supertaster, which is
also Supersmeller...)

OK: I'm confused. Is your information on Honda using B&S engines or my information more current? Mine's also older, but not nearly 1982 old!

Probably yours, mine being from before electricity. <g>

KM> I must have a dozen, if not more. But I don't bother removing
KM> them, and PCLOS, being a rolling release, gets updates more or
KM> less continuously.

That might be part of the reason why you have so many.

Likely so! new one a couple days ago. Along with updating just about everything else.

> > KM> Still debating what goes on Fireball, tho since chances are it
> > KM> eventually replaces Bullet (when/if it ever dies) ... XP64! <g>
> > Don't you just love new operating systems?!
> KM> NO!!
> <chuckle> I do tend to follow the old BBSers' "rule": never buy a
> version ending in zero.
KM> Does that include Windows 10? :D
Only if in Base Ten.

So, Windows 2 :)

Actually, am having trouble finding something that agrees to install on Fireball; Windows everything whines about the BIOS not being compliant
(it was a Win7 workstation, you ninny!) tho PCLOS runs just fine...

KM> Yep, if they've got any brains at all, they can figure out quite
KM> a lot. Treat training actively interferes with this, in training
KM> by selecting for a brainless reaction, and in breeding by
KM> selecting against brains.
I don't think I did too much training via treats with either dog. With
my collie I as too young, with my Lhasa Apso she was a little heavy (she
was adopted) so food was somewhat restricted.

So you were good whether you wanted to be or not. <puts away whip>

> Makes sense to use them to their talents. Around here it sort of would
KM> Yep... and one of 'em seemed happier with PCLOS so that's what
KM> it's got. The third makes do with whatever's left over. :D
I've heard just like with human children: first-born child gets treated delicately and has everything, second child not nearly as much; third 0
ha! <g> (I'm and only brat, err, child.)

Actually it's starting to look like birth order is influential not for different treatment, but because each child changes the mother's immune response, so you get different gene expressions, and therefore different behavior (that being mostly inherited), which naturally elicits
different responses from the parents. (Similarly, repeat breedings in
dogs are never the same quality, and sometimes very different... well,
here's an explanation. There may actually be truth in the old contention
that a crossbreeding forever ruins the dam.) May also affect the male's
future offspring, depending on the degree of exposure to the female's
immune factors (dogs get a lot via the 'tie') and which sperm get
advantaged or disadvantaged by it.

It seems there's a reason for some of us to avoid certain brands.
Aren't Seagates used a lot in DVRs, etc.? Almost seems like a higher

Whichever currently offers the best deal to that OEM. Frex Dell-branded
HDs are usually WDs, but there are spates of Seagates.

failure rate would be bad for the bottom line -- replace, repair, put in
box as refurbished unit. Repeat.

So long as the unit gets out of warranty before it fails....

KM> For comparison, WD told me their design lifespan is 40,000 hours
KM> (5 years).

And I've had some last a lot longer!

Yeah. To be fair, I have a Seagate with over 85,000 hours and still
perfect, but it's an anomaly... I have a whole bunch of WDs that are WAY
over 40,000 hours. (The oldest probably has 120k hours on it.)

Side note: just got a stack of used laptop HDs for scratch drives (they
seem to wind up in permanent use and then I need a new stack) and out of
five, 3 had under 9k hours and a 4th had under 470 hours! Might as well
be brand new. :D (#5 had 32k hours, which is a bit high, but few power
cycles, and continuous use doesn't make for much wear and tear.)

KM> Lego PCs :)
Maybe the next one I'll call 'Eggo'! (Le'go my Eggo. ...Wrong one!)

Hahaha -- that ad always makes me wonder about the relationship between waffles and Legos :D

> KM> You need to refill your pool. <g>
> <chuckle> We have a decorative pond in the back yard, submurged pump to
> a couple of items. One is the 'classic' statue of a boy straddling an
> urn and the water comes out the urn. Well it sort of looks like the kid
> is urinating (along with a case of elephantiasis), so naturally I call
> him "Pee Boy".
KM> Does he swim in the gene pool? :D
And pass that thing on?!

I hope not! <g>

KM> against the bottom of the vehicle. But I also prefer to sit
KM> higher and have big open wheel wells, so every time I need to put
KM> chains on I don't use up my entire supply of bad words.
Room to reach around the tire would be an advantage! They say there's a
way to back up (or go forward) a tiny bit to get the chain around the
tire -- uh, yeah, right!

If you have to do that, yer doin' it wrong or you've got no room to
work... best way is chains flat on the ground, drive about a third of
the way onto 'em, flap the long end over the tire, pull up the short end
and join 'em up. When I was doing it daily, got to where I could chain
up in (actually timed it) about 40 seconds. On a truck with lots more
room than the dually... where there's that pesky second tire in the
way... lordy, the words I use... and I'm only doing the outside tire.
(They make dually chains but way more expensive and even more work.)

I'm not even sure studded tires are allowed any longer, much less chains
(in Iowa).

Usually allowed seasonally, tho not in every state. You wouldn't be
driving on bare pavement with chains anyway... wears 'em out real fast.

> KM> Ah, I was not imagining things. <g>
> Contrary to assumptions we have! <bseg>
KM> Our usual method being to just Make S#1t up. :D
As long as it sounds plausible! We just need to post to a website to
make it valid!

Is that how it works? I shall proceed to post everything I wish to be
true. Ky is a billionaire. Ky was just appointed dictator for life. <g>

KM> Geez yeah, I hate that. Cash's Core2Duo isn't quite enough for
KM> browser use (can you believe what it takes to decode what's
KM> essentially text and scripts?) and sites like Google Maps clog it
KM> up but good... CPU pegged at 100%.
I've seen some odd "why is it pegging?" events here. The moveing of the screensaver for Wildcat! will pulse the usage to 100%, for some reason
so will typing these replies: before upgrading the heat sink there were
times I had to let the machine cool off!!

Screensaver is probably math-heavy. If it involves stuff that crawls
around and curves, definitely so. Windows Tubes screensaver clogged up
the last K6-2 450MHz I had in service, to where it couldn't come back
from the screensaver... that's why it's no longer in service... Tubes
ran fine on the P233MMX, nominally only half as fast but in Real Life
about 3x faster. (And the P233 had a much older vidcard.)

> And as sort of a tangent: appears the RPi 4 with 4 GB RAM will run
> MythTV v 30 just fine wirelessly. I think they separated the WiFi from
> the USB -- something got changed and removed a bottleneck.
KM> Ah yes, I remember hearing something about that.
I'll admit to some (a lot?!) of the details go in the eyeballs and out - well, some place! Right now makes more sense for me to purchase the

In one eyeball and out the other!

latest and greatest RPi (so RPi4 at 8 GB) because it is faster, the WiFi transfers faster, etc. The 8GB I'm not married to -- 4 GB is probably
more than sufficient but for a few dollars more.... I can see where businesses using RPi's probably need to keep the older Pi's just because
of the need to match what they have: no updating of software, etc.

Yeah, for another $25 I'd get the extra 4GB, assuming all else equal.
But I do like the idea of all those in the same generation being cross-compatible -- simplifies rolling out a bunch of systems, for sure.
(Same reason business buys Dells by the pallet. One Size Fits All.)

> I probably did try NTFS. May have even tried something 'oddball' like
> Amiga and then back to FAT32/NTFS/something compatible -- something non-
> Microsoft to 'overwrite' everything and then bring it back to something
> Microsoft-speak.
KM> Something Went Wrong!! :O

That sounds like a Windows error message!

Actually, that's the official MacOS error message!!

> Yes: stick with what's known! Another second of processing isn't going
> to make too much of a difference after the signal takes a couple of
> minutes to get there!
KM> It's a bit worse than that... one-way for Voyager is now 19
KM> hours!
That sounds right: the minutes seemed too short but the hours and speed
of light thing together didn't sound right.

Yeah, I had to look it up myself! I was thinking months, but I must be a
lot further out in space. <g>

> KM> You can actually buy an i7 motherboard with ISA slots now, made
> KM> by DFI so it's probably pretty good. They sell 'em direct for
> KM> about $300. If Moonbase's board ever dies (P4 with ISA slots),
> KM> I'm lookin' at one of these.
> Makes sense! Sounds a bit odd as "what uses ISA now?" ...Hmm! I'll
KM> My DOS sound card!!
> have to check what I have in the basement: I have some old-old
> daughtercards. (Wrote myself a note -- will check eventually.)
KM> The Sound Blaster in Moonbase (DOOM machine) came with my
KM> original 486, bought in 1994! Still works. Still cranky about not
KM> being in the bottom slot (that pesky IRQ thing).

I'll have to see what I have and message you. Save your pop can money
as not going to fit in an envelope!

<wonders why there's a truckload of treasure, er, I mean old PC parts
sitting in my driveway>

I'm gonna have to swap Silver's 'new' (some random used) vidcard, I
think.. it's stable in Win64, but not in Win7. Went looking for good and fanless and not too pricey (and at least 1GB RAM) this morning, didn't
find anything that gave me joy. Have another that was stable with that
Win7 setup when it was in Lightfoot, but VGA out doesn't work and DVI
doesn't allow changing screen brightness/contrast.

Ha-ha - yes! Some times it's I know it's around here some place -- was
in a blue box.....

At least you color-coded your junk before you lost it! <g>

KM> Next oddest: portable printer -- just the roller and ink cart,
KM> nothing else. Rather messy, but worked. Gave it away as more
KM> trouble than it was worth.

I finally packed up my old LA50 (DEC dot matrix printer). Intention was
to use both the inkjet (now laser) and dot matrix -- that didn't really happen. Finally decided to pack it up and use the space for the
shredder (slide-out drawer near carpet level).

I technically own a couple of inkjets but one whines that its very
expensive cart is out of date, and the other I can't find a driver for
(and HP was like, sucks to be you... hey, this was a $900 business
printer, and that's your attitude?) So I only use the lasers (all but
the color laser being freebies, and it was cheap). Little HPLJ1020 on
the desk (6000 pages and still on its initial toner cart) for small
jobs, heavy-duty 2100TN for big jobs (have a matched pair of those,
think I'm set for life).

And I've kept other older stuff just because of having older computers:
why get rid of a daughtercard or whatever just to end up maybe needing
it later?

THIS!!! no matter what you deem too outdated to keep and therefore throw
away, THAT will be the next weird thing you need and can't find!!!

KM> Speaking of SSDs... if that system has a spare PCIe slot, you can
KM> get an NVME M.2 drive and a cheap adapter (they come in 1x, 4x,

I dn't think I'd want to have a hot device too close to anything! Have dedicated fan or two pointing at the drive!

When standing upright in a slot it doesn't seem to get too warm, but if
you have it flat on the mainboard... I'd definitely get an NVME with a heatsink. (Someone did a comparison; it helps a lot.)

This system and one downstairs do boot with a SSD drive, mainly because
I don't like waiting for a boot or reboot. I'm not impatient, just
sometimes not wanting to wait. Not quite comfortable with them yet so

Yeah, I'm not impatient, I just want it NOW! :D

the data is on a 'traditional' platter hard drive. One of the Frontend computers (mainly for watching recorded TV shows via MythTV) does have SSD-only -- sort of an experiment, plus I don't think I had a small spare
HDD at decent specs -- the one I took out was old and slow.

OS on SSD, storage on platters -- makes sense to me, especially at the
cost differential. Also, jury is still out on SSDs as long-term storage,
while spinning rust is pretty much a known level of hazard.

Sometimes it's the push or looks of the representative of the seller company swaying the purchasing agents at the buying companies! Personally I've always had very good experience with Western Digital; Seagate seems to
show up everywhere but also seems to be needing to be replaced more
often (guess by which brand!).

Gee, I can't imagine! <g>

KM> Used to be if you started with a good motherboard, you could
KM> skimp on everything else til the price came down, then upgrade
KM> CPU, RAM, video, etc. But nowadays board and CPU tend to be a
KM> matched set with a limited set of upgrade options.

Yes, I will agree with that. I haven't done too much buying but when
looking to buy a motherboard for the now-extra CPU (had bought a 'kit', wouldn't install the OS because of a bad BIOS setting and a faulty RAM
stick) there were limitied options of motherboards for that CPU, so
couldn't get the specs I wanted (and not have ones I didn't need). I
was thinking more the CPU socket needing to match, which does limit
which motherboard and CPU can go together. There's also the CPU
wattage to consider, probably other specs. ...Whether it's fireproof
for the NVME fry-drive.... <g>

Woulda been nice to have low-wattage CPUs but you don't always have that choice. Silver II and Fireball are both 130W TDP <eep!> but have noticed
these newer Intels are quite good about downthrottling themselves when
full power isn't needed.

Hadn't head about Gnome and the swipe thing -- we have to get touch
screens now or right_click and move? (semi-joke). Might be in 20.04,
I'm at 18.04.

Oh, I mean the way the desktop operates, where you don't have static
icons, you have a display that you crank back and forth. Drives me to drink.

KM> I don't know of any such case in modern software. From what
KM> Microsoft is doing with the linux subsystem for Windows, I have a
KM> suspicion they're going to pull a Novell and switch Windows' guts
KM> to linux, or at least try to... which would let them piggyback on
KM> existing development and fire all their OS devs.

But Microsoft _never_ steals nor does underhanded things like that!

Well, technically you can't 'steal' opensource... I don't think it would
be a good move, tho, and not only because having alternative ecosystems
is generally a good thing. Switching their codebase to linux is what
basically killed Novell -- they went from having an utterly unique
product to being just another Linux also-ran, which sealed the company's
fate.

(Almost typed that with a straight font!)

LOL! SOOO stealing that one <g>

> Your lawn mower has a mosquito gear? Ours has rabbit and turtle speeds!
KM> Yeah, it flies. At least when we're leaping off the steep part of
KM> the front yard!
It's easy to mow down the hill, a bear to mow back up! Going sideways
isn't so bad except one direction the gas leaks out of the tank!

Oh, going down ain't so fun either... mower wants to run away from me!
But yeah, sideways part, the mower has to be full of gas or it stalls out.

KM> Hurricanes DO occur over land, but usually in winter. Those
KM> "storm of the century" blizzards are usually hurricanes.... and
I wonder if that was what we really had here on New Year's probably
1978? Started snowing very heavily New Year's Eve, continued for the
next day (New Year's), possibly the following. Forgot how much snow we
got but basically shut down the Quad Cities for several days. Wind-
blown snow covered the windows of the apartments on the first floor yet
there was an almost bare area then a huge pile of snow in the center
common area between the U-shaped building.

Coulda been... we get 'em every few years.

> .. If say "I always lie", am I lying?
KM> Yes. No. <g>

True!

False!
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Hi Ky!

> KM> <falls over laughing>
> KM> Wait, I don't have a backup??
> That's what happens when you sit on a stool: nothing to lean against!
KM> These durn two-legged stools....
I wonder if that's why it was so cheap?!

30% off!!

If a three-legged stool closer to one-third!


> I had read about Conky and didn't like something: maybe it was too much

on the screen, not leaving enough room to work.

It's transparent, and configurable, but I just don't like having
numbers on the screen, because I have Obsessive Reading Disorder. <g>

Mine's closer to if I note something moving on the screen my attention
is drawn to it. Makes it a little difficult to stay with the topic
window.

KM> Actually know someone who used an AMD CPU (this was in the late
KM> K6-2 era) to heat the garage apartment -- in Seattle, so not deep
KM> cold but not year-round toasty either.
Sounds like a lot of hot air to me! <bseg> There have been times when
the air has felt rather warm coming out of various coputers!

Yeah, was rather noticeable in the desert... not so much here in
South Siberia!

In "South Siberia" the extra warmth would be welcomed, not so much in
the desert (even if a dry heat!).

KM> This could be... which reminds me, ExplainingComputers has
KM> another RPi video today. He's a very pleasant chap and has a way
KM> of making stuff easily understood.
I'll take a look some time. One thing I hope he explains and reminds frequently is with the RPI 4 to use the HDMI port nearest the power connector -- the other port won't give sound if the first one is empty.
I'm not the first one to have had that simple problem.

Leave him a comment about it!

Probably would do more 'as appropriate' as opposed to out of the blue.
...I'll have to find out why there are two HDMI ports. Handy for some
usages, but multiple monitors doesn't seem to be super-popular even with 'regular'home use. Not uncommon, just doesn't seem to be common.

KM> Sound policy!
alsa or Pulseaudio?!

Whichever one doesn't crash!

Ummm, both do with the cymbals sounds. ...Yeah: weak joke.

> bye-bye!) and used a manual copy routine to an external hard drive (USB
> 3.0) -- no problems. Warmed up some but wasn't to the dangerous level.
> No ZIPping going on? A little bit slower data transfer? (The backup used
> my Ethernet LAN to connect to the destination drive.)
KM> Hmm. Was something going through the USB port? If I want to see
KM> Bullet's southbridge chip hit 220F, all I need do is save a
KM> torrent directly to the USB external hard drive... I don't know
KM> if southbridge also controls onboard network ports but I'd guess
KM> that was the problem. Except more intense when it was the NIC
KM> being used, thus way more data than USB.
AFAIK nothing was using the USB port at the time the backup was being
made via Ethernet. (The original way when the CPU overheated.) USB
devices were connected just because they were connected during the day
but were not in active use.

No, I mean does the network chip also send data through the
southbridge? I'd guess it does, and that heated up the chip, and
the system.

Oh. My guess is yes, though reading about Southbridge so do USB stuff.
LIS my guess is the regular backup was using a lot more CPU cycles
because creating a condensed file with numerous files zipped into the
one storage file, whereas the USB backup was a simply copy: just move
the data, not work on it too.

Which, come to think of it, might be why downloads heat up Bullet
a lot more than local file movement. (WinAmp runs permanently to
keep the #1 external drive from going to sleep... settings util
won't speak to it, and this was a doable workaround. Then again
that's just a read every 3-5 minutes, no writes.)

Your turn to check! I'm sort of chuckling to myself on this end as I
remebber the manual and I think even the promotional literature for my original computer, the DEC Rainbow 100, specifically stated which
function was done by what CPU: video and memory by the first, floppy
drives by the second, that type of thing. Very out inthe open. Now we
have to dig down into hard-to-find manuals.

That was one of my original reasons for delays with installing the CoolerMaster heatsink: if I was going to have to go through all the
bother of removing the motherboard to add the heatsink I figured I may
as well build a new system since the original one was misbehaving. Not
like I'm made of money, but sometimes if ripping something apart may as
well go all the way. Fortunately there was an access hole in the
chassis.

Nice when the holes are convenient! you'd think it'd be a
Generally Good Idea if only for better venting under the CPU, but
it's far from universal.

Yes, though I took the lack of access as more for RFI shielding. (It
doesn't have to be anywhere near right for it to make sense to me
sometimes!)

LIS I'll be going back to Intel. As for fins on the AMD-approved
heatsink, is almost seemed like there were too many spaced too closely:
this place isn't dirty but dust would get caught in the fins and clog
them up, further reducing the limited cooling it had. I will admit I haven't been inside since swapping in the new one.

In my observation, more fins too close is better than too few
fins far apart. Tho I don't know what's optimal; surely some
engineer has done the math.

And some green-visored bookkeeper has done the math and taken away the efficiency for having more profit!

> back to Intel. Maybe daisychain together a few RPi 4's and go that way!
KM> RPis are sure cheap enough now. Oh, the ExplainingComputers guy
KM> has a whole series on single-board computers, RPis and others.
KM> Some are really cheap (ten bucks).
Have scanned through articles on the those -- interesting but sort of staying away/staying with the RPi's as used to them and the spare parts thinking: can physically swap the unit, or create the SD card on one and
put it in the other (well, need to be the same generation).

Not a bad choice... some other brands have interesting features
or add-ons, but the RPis seem to be most competent overall. I
don't have any SBCs so here it's all theoretical anyway!

Hey! My "could be the truth/sounds good to me" finally gets a little validation! <g> Quite sure there are other small/tiny board computers
out there which are more efficient for some of the jobs I'm having the
RPi do, as you indicated, Sometimes being more familiar with one
brand/style is more efficient. The very inexpensive Raspberry Zero
would probably be a better choice for a few projects around here, just
means potentially more cases, power supplies, etc., to stock.

Some of the cheap used Thin Client units seem to be pretty good
and do much the same work, main advantage is compatible with
x86/x64 instead of only running ARM OSs. And some can be
considerably upgraded.

Agree, though of course the usual advantages and disadvantages kick in.
Thin client can be smaller, which me being a hare stuck on MythTV
Frontends flgas with a restriction on video. Not much of a problem if
the right one is integrated into the motherboard; potential problems if restricted to SFF format video cards. Could also have underpowered
PSUs. All stuff to consider the pluses and minuses when purchasing.

KM> Oh, for that you just need two poles and a rope (mechanical
KM> winch). <g>
I don't think I know any Polish people!

Well then, you'll just have to stay in that hole!

"Lassie! Get Pa!"

> KM> https://www.chainsawjournal.com/firman-generators-reviews/
> KM> I'd never even heard of these, but they start around $300.
> I never heard of them either -- will have to see what they offer and if
> sold and serviced locally.
KM> Now that last is the important part!
<chuckle> Yup! Things _will_ fail!

Speak of the devil, Costco has a Firman generator on sale right
now. Flex fuel (gasoline, natural gas, propane).

Wonder if it will fit in the basement? <jk>

OK yes, that's making sense. Part of the problem with basement
installation here might be finding a place for the generator. Half of
the basement is finished, the other half what's supposed to be a kitchenette, laundry, my Electronics Workbench Area. The water heater
and furnace is in there too. Presumeably they want some space around
the generator like they do for the furnace.

Shouldn't need much, given they pack 'em into cubbyholes in RVs.

That's true. Probably non-flammable material lining the cubbyhole but
true about the compactness. (Thinking of how the HVAC guys are usually impressed by the 'roominess' in the back of the furnace where the access
panels are. Plus there's light! Old undercabinet fluorescent, but
they're usually working by flashlight. [There's some storage back
there.])

KM> However, also no real reason they can't sit outdoors in their own
KM> little shelter, much as central air conditioners do. I'd consider
KM> a longer tailpipe to get fumes up away from the house, tho.
Why? Carbon monoxide doesn't smell! <gg> If the generator was placed in

Supposedly not, but actually it does have a sort of dirty-damp
scent. (Then again, I'm somewhere waaaaaaay over beyond
Supertaster, which is also Supersmeller...)

Makes sense. Could be most people are unable to sense CO or you react
to the CO and get that musty smell reaction. There have been times
(rare) when I went sniffing as "something wasn't right". The CO
Detector didn't trigger, but then it's one of those ones without the
level display -- I'm going back to that type when this one expires.

OK: I'm confused. Is your information on Honda using B&S engines or my information more current? Mine's also older, but not nearly 1982 old!

Probably yours, mine being from before electricity. <g>

<chuckle> OK. Old information is good to be aware of and check when purchasing. I don't mind saving money.

KM> I must have a dozen, if not more. But I don't bother removing
KM> them, and PCLOS, being a rolling release, gets updates more or
KM> less continuously.
That might be part of the reason why you have so many.

Likely so! new one a couple days ago. Along with updating just
about everything else.

All new! All improved! Now back to the drawing board to fix those
problems the fix of the old problems created!!

Actually, am having trouble finding something that agrees to
install on Fireball; Windows everything whines about the BIOS not
being compliant (it was a Win7 workstation, you ninny!) tho PCLOS
runs just fine...

Not sure if this is of any help: https://www.linux.org/threads/i-cant-install-linux.12399/

More for Linux installation issues because of motherboard manufacturer
issues but could give a clue to get around the Microsoft installation
problem.

KM> Yep, if they've got any brains at all, they can figure out quite
KM> a lot. Treat training actively interferes with this, in training
KM> by selecting for a brainless reaction, and in breeding by
KM> selecting against brains.
I don't think I did too much training via treats with either dog. With
my collie I as too young, with my Lhasa Apso she was a little heavy (she
was adopted) so food was somewhat restricted.

So you were good whether you wanted to be or not. <puts away

whip>

<whew!> I odn't know how much food training I would have done should
she have been of proper weight: treats are expensive, not something I'd
carry around just for fun, and to me positive re-inforcement sometimes
needs to be done on-the-fly and a "you did good" voicing and neck rub
sort of thing might be all that's available. Sort of thinking simply
going for a walk, no real need to bring along treats (sort of defeating
the purpose!), going to cross the street and the dog sits in front of my
path, preventing me from being squished by a car.

> Makes sense to use them to their talents. Around here it sort of would
KM> Yep... and one of 'em seemed happier with PCLOS so that's what
KM> it's got. The third makes do with whatever's left over. :D
I've heard just like with human children: first-born child gets treated delicately and has everything, second child not nearly as much; third 0
ha! <g> (I'm and only brat, err, child.)

Actually it's starting to look like birth order is influential
not for different treatment, but because each child changes the
mother's immune response, so you get different gene expressions,
and therefore different behavior (that being mostly inherited),
which naturally elicits different responses from the parents.
(Similarly, repeat breedings in dogs are never the same quality,
and sometimes very different... well, here's an explanation.

I'm in computer mode: thinking analog vs. digital duplication!

There may actually be truth in the old contention that a
crossbreeding forever ruins the dam.) May also affect the male's
future offspring, depending on the degree of exposure to the
female's immune factors (dogs get a lot via the 'tie') and which
sperm get advantaged or disadvantaged by it.

Makes sense: the coupling activity is not just one direction. I would
assume the reasoning behind the slight changes is to maintain a
diversity in the line (not sure if 'lineage' is correct): Darwin type
stuff: this option is good in this enviro ment but not so good in a
slight variance, so excat duplication in offspring isn't a good idea.

It seems there's a reason for some of us to avoid certain brands.
Aren't Seagates used a lot in DVRs, etc.? Almost seems like a higher

Whichever currently offers the best deal to that OEM. Frex
Dell-branded HDs are usually WDs, but there are spates of
Seagates.

Which makes sense: whoever can provide the best price for the specs. Or
at least that's how manufacturers generally look at things, especially
as most of their customers don't know what it is much less care.

failure rate would be bad for the bottom line -- replace, repair, put in
box as refurbished unit. Repeat.

So long as the unit gets out of warranty before it fails....

<chuckle>

KM> For comparison, WD told me their design lifespan is 40,000 hours
KM> (5 years).
And I've had some last a lot longer!

Yeah. To be fair, I have a Seagate with over 85,000 hours and
still perfect, but it's an anomaly... I have a whole bunch of WDs
that are WAY over 40,000 hours. (The oldest probably has 120k
hours on it.)

LISB4, to me worth the little bit of difference in cost. Admittedly the
cost does add up, so from the mass-production manufacturing viewpoint,
unless they can pass that extra cost on to the next level buyer they're
not going to be selling anything.

Side note: just got a stack of used laptop HDs for scratch drives
(they seem to wind up in permanent use and then I need a new
stack) and out of five, 3 had under 9k hours and a 4th had under
470 hours! Might as well be brand new. :D (#5 had 32k hours,
which is a bit high, but few power cycles, and continuous use
doesn't make for much wear and tear.)

"You dun gud!"

KM> Lego PCs :)
Maybe the next one I'll call 'Eggo'! (Le'go my Eggo. ...Wrong one!)

Hahaha -- that ad always makes me wonder about the relationship
between waffles and Legos :D

Waffles generally don't have the outies so don't stack securely.

> <chuckle> We have a decorative pond in the back yard, submurged pump to
> a couple of items. One is the 'classic' statue of a boy straddling an
> urn and the water comes out the urn. Well it sort of looks like the kid
> is urinating (along with a case of elephantiasis), so naturally I call
> him "Pee Boy".
KM> Does he swim in the gene pool? :D
And pass that thing on?!

I hope not! <g>

Not even for -- uh, wrong conference!

KM> against the bottom of the vehicle. But I also prefer to sit
KM> higher and have big open wheel wells, so every time I need to put
KM> chains on I don't use up my entire supply of bad words.
Room to reach around the tire would be an advantage! They say there's a
way to back up (or go forward) a tiny bit to get the chain around the
tire -- uh, yeah, right!

If you have to do that, yer doin' it wrong or you've got no room
to work... best way is chains flat on the ground, drive about a
third of the way onto 'em, flap the long end over the tire, pull
up the short end and join 'em up. When I was doing it daily, got
to where I could chain up in (actually timed it) about 40
seconds. On a truck with lots more room than the dually... where
there's that pesky second tire in the way... lordy, the words I
use... and I'm only doing the outside tire. (They make dually
chains but way more expensive and even more work.)

Yes, if done frequently one gets into the habit and nuances of how far
to pull ahead/behind. I would have been doing it probably infrequently, probably on a slight hill (parking lot at the apartment complex was on a slope) or on the street.

I'm not even sure studded tires are allowed any longer, much less chains
(in Iowa).

Usually allowed seasonally, tho not in every state. You wouldn't
be driving on bare pavement with chains anyway... wears 'em out
real fast.

Plus makes the ride bumpy! ...I haven't heard the sound of chains on a vehicle around here in I don't know how long.

> KM> Ah, I was not imagining things. <g>
> Contrary to assumptions we have! <bseg>
KM> Our usual method being to just Make S#1t up. :D
As long as it sounds plausible! We just need to post to a website to
make it valid!

Is that how it works? I shall proceed to post everything I wish
to be true. Ky is a billionaire. Ky was just appointed dictator
for life. <g>

We're assuming 'billionaire' was referring to a currency and not
ownership of a billion grass clippings! And if you're a benevolent
dictator might not be all that bad.

KM> Geez yeah, I hate that. Cash's Core2Duo isn't quite enough for
KM> browser use (can you believe what it takes to decode what's
KM> essentially text and scripts?) and sites like Google Maps clog it
KM> up but good... CPU pegged at 100%.
I've seen some odd "why is it pegging?" events here. The moveing of the screensaver for Wildcat! will pulse the usage to 100%, for some reason
so will typing these replies: before upgrading the heat sink there were times I had to let the machine cool off!!

Screensaver is probably math-heavy. If it involves stuff that
crawls around and curves, definitely so. Windows Tubes
screensaver clogged up the last K6-2 450MHz I had in service, to
where it couldn't come back from the screensaver... that's why
it's no longer in service... Tubes ran fine on the P233MMX,
nominally only half as fast but in Real Life about 3x faster.
(And the P233 had a much older vidcard.)

Wildcat!'s tubes/worms/whatever version was pegging my CPU - or at least
one the old computer so would presume the same with any. Plus the
motion was a bit distracting.

> And as sort of a tangent: appears the RPi 4 with 4 GB RAM will run
> MythTV v 30 just fine wirelessly. I think they separated the WiFi from
> the USB -- something got changed and removed a bottleneck.
KM> Ah yes, I remember hearing something about that.
I'll admit to some (a lot?!) of the details go in the eyeballs and out - well, some place! Right now makes more sense for me to purchase the

In one eyeball and out the other!

We'll use that one!

latest and greatest RPi (so RPi4 at 8 GB) because it is faster, the WiFi transfers faster, etc. The 8GB I'm not married to -- 4 GB is probably
more than sufficient but for a few dollars more.... I can see where businesses using RPi's probably need to keep the older Pi's just because
of the need to match what they have: no updating of software, etc.

Yeah, for another $25 I'd get the extra 4GB, assuming all else
equal. But I do like the idea of all those in the same generation
being cross-compatible -- simplifies rolling out a bunch of
systems, for sure. (Same reason business buys Dells by the
pallet. One Size Fits All.)

And so far an inexpensive kit seems to be cheaper and easier than
buying the wallwart power supply, sub-HDMI to HDMI cable, the case --
seems like another item or two but essentially those little necessary
parts.

> I probably did try NTFS. May have even tried something 'oddball' like
> Amiga and then back to FAT32/NTFS/something compatible -- something non-
> Microsoft to 'overwrite' everything and then bring it back to something
> Microsoft-speak.
KM> Something Went Wrong!! :O
That sounds like a Windows error message!

Actually, that's the official MacOS error message!!

=======================
= Whoops! =
= We made a boo-boo! =
=======================

> Yes: stick with what's known! Another second of processing isn't going
> to make too much of a difference after the signal takes a couple of
> minutes to get there!
KM> It's a bit worse than that... one-way for Voyager is now 19
KM> hours!
That sounds right: the minutes seemed too short but the hours and speed
of light thing together didn't sound right.

Yeah, I had to look it up myself! I was thinking months, but I
must be a lot further out in space. <g>

You're way out, man!

> KM> You can actually buy an i7 motherboard with ISA slots now, made
> KM> by DFI so it's probably pretty good. They sell 'em direct for
> KM> about $300. If Moonbase's board ever dies (P4 with ISA slots),
> KM> I'm lookin' at one of these.
> Makes sense! Sounds a bit odd as "what uses ISA now?" ...Hmm! I'll
KM> My DOS sound card!!
> have to check what I have in the basement: I have some old-old
> daughtercards. (Wrote myself a note -- will check eventually.)
KM> The Sound Blaster in Moonbase (DOOM machine) came with my
KM> original 486, bought in 1994! Still works. Still cranky about not
KM> being in the bottom slot (that pesky IRQ thing).
I'll have to see what I have and message you. Save your pop can money
as not going to fit in an envelope!

<wonders why there's a truckload of treasure, er, I mean old PC
parts sitting in my driveway>

So am I as I haven't looked for 'em yet! <g>

I'm gonna have to swap Silver's 'new' (some random used) vidcard,
I think.. it's stable in Win64, but not in Win7. Went looking for
good and fanless and not too pricey (and at least 1GB RAM) this
morning, didn't find anything that gave me joy. Have another that
was stable with that Win7 setup when it was in Lightfoot, but VGA
out doesn't work and DVI doesn't allow changing screen brightness/contrast.

Ha-ha - yes! Some times it's I know it's around here some place -- was
in a blue box.....

At least you color-coded your junk before you lost it! <g>

Pretty good for a guy who's somewhat colour-blind! Have switched most
of my storage to Banker's Boxes ==> more consistent size easier to stack
and store. Some will have boxes with the box, so looking for that blue
box still is a clue. Have been labelling in a temporary/permanent
manner: half a sheet of 8«"x11" paper, fold in half the long way and rip
that in half, fold the piece in half and use a thicker felt tip pen to
make a general list: "audio cables", though video cables are separated
by VGA as got a ton and a small box (not a Banker's Box - yet!) for HDMI
and DVI, plus the HDMI couplers. Detailing of the contents depends how assorted the contents is.

KM> Next oddest: portable printer -- just the roller and ink cart,
KM> nothing else. Rather messy, but worked. Gave it away as more
KM> trouble than it was worth.
I finally packed up my old LA50 (DEC dot matrix printer). Intention was
to use both the inkjet (now laser) and dot matrix -- that didn't really happen. Finally decided to pack it up and use the space for the
shredder (slide-out drawer near carpet level)

I technically own a couple of inkjets but one whines that its
very expensive cart is out of date, and the other I can't find a
driver for (and HP was like, sucks to be you... hey, this was a
$900 business printer, and that's your attitude?) So I only use
the lasers (all but the color laser being freebies, and it was
cheap). Little HPLJ1020 on the desk (6000 pages and still on its
initial toner cart) for small jobs, heavy-duty 2100TN for big
jobs (have a matched pair of those, think I'm set for life).

Sounds so! Back when I had an inkjet its cartridges would sometimes get
a little schnarky -- was using refurbished -- some tricks on the web to
pull the cartridge, power up the printer, let it whine about no
cartridge installed, shut off, turn on again, let whine, turn off,
install cartidge, turn on and hope.

As for my laser printer I am on my second set (first set was the initial starter set). I've got another 1,000 pages to go before considering
buying replacement magenta -- other two have about 1500+ pages and the
black guessing 3,000.

As for your HP driver, not a good attitude on their part and could cost
them sales.

And I've kept other older stuff just because of having older computers:
why get rid of a daughtercard or whatever just to end up maybe needing
it later?

THIS!!! no matter what you deem too outdated to keep and
therefore throw away, THAT will be the next weird thing you need
and can't find!!!

Yup! Years ago I repaired a pole lamp for one of the kids using a
plastic part leftover from a toilet repair kit (!).

KM> Speaking of SSDs... if that system has a spare PCIe slot, you can
KM> get an NVME M.2 drive and a cheap adapter (they come in 1x, 4x,
I don't think I'd want to have a hot device too close to anything! Have dedicated fan or two pointing at the drive!

When standing upright in a slot it doesn't seem to get too warm,
but if you have it flat on the mainboard... I'd definitely get an
NVME with a heatsink. (Someone did a comparison; it helps a lot.)

Heatsink sounds like a very good idea, along with maybe a strip of
asbestos insulation if flush against the motherboard. (Asbestos?! Yeah
- from the odds and ends box we've been fill with "throw that junk out!"
stuff for years!!)

This system and one downstairs do boot with a SSD drive, mainly because
I don't like waiting for a boot or reboot. I'm not impatient, just sometimes not wanting to wait. Not quite comfortable with them yet so

Yeah, I'm not impatient, I just want it NOW! :D

That's the spirit!

the data is on a 'traditional' platter hard drive. One of the Frontend computers (mainly for watching recorded TV shows via MythTV) does have SSD-only -- sort of an experiment, plus I don't think I had a small spare HDD at decent specs -- the one I took out was old and slow.

OS on SSD, storage on platters -- makes sense to me, especially
at the cost differential. Also, jury is still out on SSDs as
long-term storage, while spinning rust is pretty much a known
level of hazard.

OK, good; so still somewhat current on that thinking.

KM> Used to be if you started with a good motherboard, you could
KM> skimp on everything else til the price came down, then upgrade
KM> CPU, RAM, video, etc. But nowadays board and CPU tend to be a
KM> matched set with a limited set of upgrade options.
Yes, I will agree with that. I haven't done too much buying but when looking to buy a motherboard for the now-extra CPU (had bought a 'kit', wouldn't install the OS because of a bad BIOS setting and a faulty RAM stick) there were limitied options of motherboards for that CPU, so
couldn't get the specs I wanted (and not have ones I didn't need). I
was thinking more the CPU socket needing to match, which does limit
which motherboard and CPU can go together. There's also the CPU
wattage to consider, probably other specs. ...Whether it's fireproof
for the NVME fry-drive.... <g>

Woulda been nice to have low-wattage CPUs but you don't always
have that choice. Silver II and Fireball are both 130W TDP <eep!>
but have noticed these newer Intels are quite good about
downthrottling themselves when full power isn't needed.

Probably part of being green but overall good: if don't need full

I'm at 18.04.

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