Hi Ky!

> Yes, didn't know there were so many variations out there!
KM> Since I've been paying attention it's mushroomed, tho most fade
KM> away unremarked and unlamented.
Yes, I suppose rather easy as modify to my preferences, I think it's the latest and greatest so publish. A few people, mostly relatives and
friends trying to be supportive try it but otherwise doesn't take off,

Or the maintainer and his immediate cronies. I'd feel more secure
if my preferred distro was more than a one-man-band, because
that's a single point of potential disaster; OTOH everything is
very stable because Tex doesn't change things up much. No sudden
corporate 180s.

Yes, both options have their good points and their bad ones. One
person, one direction -- dies. falls ill, gets bored - that's then end
and probabyl no one to take over. Multiple people, potential of
multiple directions or at least a bit of wavering in general direction;
one person falls out easier for someone else to continue on.

My fave is MintPup, tho technically it's a DebianDog spin;
unfortunately not maintained. I sometimes use Wary as an
old-hardware boot disk.

Whereas I've gotten rid of most of the old hardware as too slow won't
work for what I want it to do. Do have my DEC Rainbow 100 and the two
"super XTs", mainly for sentimental reasons. The XTs, or at least one,
was supposed to run the X10 (home automation) stuff but ended up the
current computers could more easily.

> As for the listing, I was thinking a separate file, not a tree output.
KM> Oh, but the Tree output tells me where it is on disk... occurs to
KM> me, tho (this is your fault) that I could print out the Big
KM> Family Tree (how much paper, again?) and mark the branches I've
KM> tried... nah, sounds like work.
If you use a teen-tiny you should get it to fit on a single sheet!

If I used little teeny print I'd need little teeny eyes to read
it...
https://people.well.com/user/bubbles/LilTEyes.txt

Neat! (I was still in elementary school when that was written!)

As for marking, maybe could still do it on computer: create a file with
a name forcing it to the top/beginning of the tree branch list. I've
used "aa_" if I want a force a file's location. Thinking of the
Recipes subdir I have (and honestly intended to use!):

At least on Windows you can use ! or !! or !!! to force a front
sort. This does not work on linux, which ignores the leading !
mark.

Never tried a filename with a leading exclamation point -- doesn't
follow my naming rules.

/home/barry/File Cabinet/Recipes/
|-- aa_Cooking Tips
|-- aa_Food Timeline
| |-- Food Timeline: food history research service_files

Food timeline, fish: Fresh, Stale, and Stinking in 3 days. <g>

How'd you know that was what was in there?!

Prefacing the 'aa_' forces the Cooking Tips subdir towards the top.
You'll have to test how it works with numbers, if any listing has
numbers, or even non alphanumeric characters

I've done the opposite -- prefix with zzz_ to force it to the
end.

That works too! As long as can find it. And LIS elsewhere, I've used
the extension BJM to easily identify person comments. ...Probably not
all that useful to most people as are my initials.

KM> Or in this case, vanished from the various FTPs, probably cuz Tex
KM> (or whoever does this for him) did one of his periodic trawls to
KM> get rid of outdated editions. Which I disagree with, see above.
In the old days storage space was at a premium so the culling sort of
made sense. Now, not so much, so just move to that Old Stuff directory.

Yeah... that's why it irks me so much that Microsoft nuked all
the old support files. They've done this twice now, apparently
under the theory that this would force people to upgrade. No, it
just annoys us... when they announced that they were killing the
pre-XP files, I pulled all of 'em, and it was only 8GB. They
didn't announce it when they killed most of the XP support files.
:/

Yes, I was also thinking the "that'll force 'em!" 8 GB is nothing.
...Just for comparison found this: "the average person used 2.9GB of
mobile data per month in 2019". So not-quite three month's worth of
data was Microsoft's 'savings'.

KM> In this case ... someone had done a nice implementation of
KM> Cinnamon on PCLOS, and seemed like it would make a good regular
KM> spin... recommended it to our Spin Doctor for updating, but then
KM> no one could find a copy online.
Darn misspellings! (Y'mean it's not 'Sinahmum'?)

Haha... I found it somewhere weird but the archive later
disappeared.

Microsoft agents must have taken them out!

> KM> I have dozens, perhaps hundreds of directories named Stuff... or
> KM> sometimes !Stuff... sometimes both....
> I try to be a little more descriptive but doesn't always work. I do
> have a few variations on 'temporary'!
KM> That too!!
Temporary
|-- A lot of Stuff
|-- More stuff
|-- Other stuff

That!

Oo! Linux is case-sensitive!!
Temporary
|-- a lot of stuff
|-- a lot of Stuff
|-- more stuff
|-- More stuff
|-- More Stuff

OMFG... yeah, that!!
Tho I try to avoid the case-sensitive thing because do not wish
to make a mess when interacting with Windows. (Win10 is also case-sensitive.)

Didn't know Windows 10 was case-sensitive but not really following
Windows stuff. I'd prefer a lack of case sensitivity (in general --
does add a slight degree of bafflement to passwords): for me would make
things a little easier. Guess I'll just go off and create my own distribution! <g>

Back a couple years ago I noticed it seemed when LibreOffice and Mozilla stuff was being updated they actually downloaded the entire version
rathet than just the new files. Possibly everything as changed, though
more likely to ensure no old files to screw up the works.

Partly because integrity checks get upset when body parts don't
match.

That makes sense. I more or less figured there was a reason, and "the
whole new thing to be sure it'll work" was good enough for me! Similar
to your 'matching body parts' explanation.

KM> Nothing wrong with this hardware; it runs a dozen other OSs just
KM> fine. Windows is a pretty good canary in the coal mine for bad
KM> hardware, and it loves that PC. Also moved the install to an
KM> older and more generic PC... no change.
Some sort of sneaky incompatibility. ...You got "ARM" instead of "AMD". It's 64-bit instead of 32-bit (should have a warning message).

LOL, yes, I've suddenly downgraded to ARM <g>

From what I've read the Raspeberry Pi will be using a 64-bit ARM
instruction set soon. :)

nomodeset came to mind because when I was having troubles with the installation due to the faulty RAM it came up numerous times as a
potential work-around; a few days ago in the MythTV Forum with nVidia drivers.

Oh. Fortunately not my problem. <g>

Good -- just threw it in as an in-case.

KM> Only thing I can think might be similar -- having trouble with
KM> 64GB RAM. However... the Red Hat family (broadly including the
KM> Mandrake cousins) has no problem with it, and that should be a
KM> kernel function anyway, and it's not like the kernel is that
KM> different from one version to the next ... and a given kernel is
KM> the same across distros. And if Debian with its 3 year old kernel
KM> has no trouble with 64GB, then no distro using a newer kernel
KM> (everyone else) should either.
Vague stuff coming up. With MotionEye there are two main versions: MotionEyeOS and MotionEye -- the first is more or less a self-entity and what I'm using here. The second is a utility, added on to an OS like Raspbian. I tried the utility a year or two back and didn't have any

Raspbian is still 32bit, IIRC.

(Should have read ahead!) Yes, though a 64-bit version is in the works.

luck so went back to the OS version. So by using the MotionEyeOS
version there could be some old code not working properly past 32GB.

Which might be explained by the above.

Took me a few seconds to figure out, but possibly does have something to
do with 32-bit OS limitions. OTOH it had no problems with a 128 GB
thumbdrive - though now it's sluggish and I've had a coupl eof lock ups.
I also had increased the resolution then brought it back down, and
played with a couple of other values so that could be the cause. Will
see if plugging in an old configuration backup fixes.

OTOH it seems to work fine for some people - maybe I'm missing a command switch?

Wait for next generation hardware. <g>

do sleep 99999 ?

FWIW Ubuntu has a bare-bones option. I think the ISO is the same, just select a 'minimal' option instead of 'full'. I've not tried it even
though on some computers which are essentially dedicated Frontends (to MythTV) it could make sense. Invariably I'd eventually need whatever
was missing.

Yeah, most of 'em do. In my experience they're not just
barebones, but also lots of everyday stuff doesn't quite work.
Inability to configure the desktop is no worry for a server, but
annoying for a workstation. Another reason I don't bother looking
at barebones distros, unless that's all there is.

Yes, would seem like a potential problem with random stuff not working
because vital stuff wasn't installed originally. Minor experience with
that kind of thing: sometimes the programme wil tell you what's missing, sometimes not and so off to search for an answer for a problem we're not
quite sure is.

KM> Yeah, to deal with all that you need a stable of programmers...
KM> at the distro level, tho, it's really just putting it all
KM> together with a script; all the real programming has already been
KM> done, especially at the hardware level (drivers etc.)
KM> In fact OpenSuSE used to have an automated online "factory" where
KM> you could specify whatever you wanted (built on OpenSuSE, but
KM> with a wide choice of desktops and features) and it would spit
KM> out a custom distro ISO for your personal entertainment. I had it
KM> build a version with Trinity desktop, tho it didn't turn out as
KM> well as Trinity on PCLOS. But still, shows at that level it's
KM> just scripts.
My guess is it's similar to a OEM installation: created specifically for (say) HP and they only use certain AMD or Intel CPUs, so don't have to include (nor test for) all the others. Same for the video card and
probably a bunch of other motherboard variables. (Remember my level of understanding isn't nearly as in-depth as yours on this stuff! My
'Black Boxes' are giant!)

Occurred to me that why Debian's installer is so freakin' slow
might be because it's still doing a lot of building from source
AS it installs (I gather Slackware and Gentoo still do this for
the whole install). Just guessing but can't think of anything
else that would take so durn long.

Could be -- I've been mild entertained by watching the text scroll on
the screen during installs. Most of the time no clue as to what the
output means, though have glimpsed bits of humour ==> instead of a stuffy-and-formal name for an error-catching utility it'll be called
something like 'Boo-boo Grabber'.

Which in this day and age is just insane. Yeah, you get an end
result precisely tailored, but at the cost of a lot more time and
bother, especially when 99% of installs want to wind up with the
ordinary generic one-size-fits-all binary, so why individually
build it?

It's those vocal One Percenters! WAG: carry-over from the days when
the installation needed to fit on a single CD?

> .. Picked up book called "Glue in Many Lands"; can't put it down.
KM> Sticky situation!
I am rather attached!

To what??

I'm thinking the book but does depend on reference points. Jump, I come
back down, so attached to Earth.....

.. Famous Last Words: Everything seems to be working fine now.

Barry's USB. <g>

The good news is it doesn't randomly lock up unless I do do something
with the USB. ...Well, winter's coming and in the past I did have the occasional problem with touching and the static zap caused everything to
stop. (Anything come to mind with that forgotten detail? Insert USB
and/or static means _________.)




¯ BarryMartin3@ ®
¯ @MyMetronet.NET ®

... Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.
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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

Whereas I've gotten rid of most of the old hardware as too slow won't
work for what I want it to do. Do have my DEC Rainbow 100 and the two
"super XTs", mainly for sentimental reasons. The XTs, or at least one,
was supposed to run the X10 (home automation) stuff but ended up the
current computers could more easily.

I have the 286 (and wish I'd kept the souped-up XT, oh well) and a few
from the late 1990s in the basement, but the ones in regular or even intermittent use ... well, Bullet is the oldest everyday PC, with a 2008 motherboard and a quad-core, and the oldest laptop still in occasional
use is the same age. Anything below a 3GHz Core2Duo is just too slow
these days, and anything below an iX is increasingly painful online.

> If you use a teen-tiny you should get it to fit on a single sheet!
KM> If I used little teeny print I'd need little teeny eyes to read
KM> it...
KM> https://people.well.com/user/bubbles/LilTEyes.txt

Neat! (I was still in elementary school when that was written!)

Bubbles has been around a while <g>

KM> At least on Windows you can use ! or !! or !!! to force a front
KM> sort. This does not work on linux, which ignores the leading !
KM> mark.

Never tried a filename with a leading exclamation point -- doesn't
follow my naming rules.

We all have our weird quirks. <g>

> /home/barry/File Cabinet/Recipes/
> |-- aa_Cooking Tips
> |-- aa_Food Timeline
> | |-- Food Timeline: food history research service_files
KM> Food timeline, fish: Fresh, Stale, and Stinking in 3 days. <g>

How'd you know that was what was in there?!

I looked in your fridge, and got food poisoning. <g>

KM> Yeah... that's why it irks me so much that Microsoft nuked all
KM> the old support files. They've done this twice now, apparently
KM> under the theory that this would force people to upgrade. No, it
KM> just annoys us... when they announced that they were killing the
KM> pre-XP files, I pulled all of 'em, and it was only 8GB. They
KM> didn't announce it when they killed most of the XP support files.
KM> :/

Yes, I was also thinking the "that'll force 'em!" 8 GB is nothing.
..Just for comparison found this: "the average person used 2.9GB of
mobile data per month in 2019". So not-quite three month's worth of
data was Microsoft's 'savings'.

At the time it was about a third of an average consumer HD. So a bit
more significant at the time, but still chicken feed by their standards.

Didn't know Windows 10 was case-sensitive but not really following
Windows stuff. I'd prefer a lack of case sensitivity (in general --

I didn't know it either until I accidentally had two almost-same
filenames...

does add a slight degree of bafflement to passwords): for me would make things a little easier. Guess I'll just go off and create my own distribution! <g>

Anyone can do it. <g>

From what I've read the Raspeberry Pi will be using a 64-bit ARM
instruction set soon. :)

About time!

> OTOH it seems to work fine for some people - maybe I'm missing a command
> switch?
KM> Wait for next generation hardware. <g>

do sleep 99999 ?

Does that work on me or the hardware? <g>

New distro: Rip Van Winkle OS :)

KM> Yeah, most of 'em do. In my experience they're not just
KM> barebones, but also lots of everyday stuff doesn't quite work.
KM> Inability to configure the desktop is no worry for a server, but
KM> annoying for a workstation. Another reason I don't bother looking
KM> at barebones distros, unless that's all there is.

Yes, would seem like a potential problem with random stuff not working because vital stuff wasn't installed originally. Minor experience with
that kind of thing: sometimes the programme wil tell you what's missing, sometimes not and so off to search for an answer for a problem we're not quite sure is.

Yeah, and while Synaptic and some commanline magic can get around it,
why do all that extra work?

Could be -- I've been mild entertained by watching the text scroll on
the screen during installs. Most of the time no clue as to what the
output means, though have glimpsed bits of humour ==> instead of a stuffy-and-formal name for an error-catching utility it'll be called something like 'Boo-boo Grabber'.

LOL, yeah, seen a few of those :)

KM> Which in this day and age is just insane. Yeah, you get an end
KM> result precisely tailored, but at the cost of a lot more time and
KM> bother, especially when 99% of installs want to wind up with the
KM> ordinary generic one-size-fits-all binary, so why individually
KM> build it?

It's those vocal One Percenters! WAG: carry-over from the days when
the installation needed to fit on a single CD?

Nope, from the habit of compiling drivers into the kernel (which was
horrible design, but was the only way to get any performance out of it,
back in the day). Which naturally extended to everything.

> > .. Picked up book called "Glue in Many Lands"; can't put it down.
> KM> Sticky situation!
> I am rather attached!
KM> To what??
I'm thinking the book but does depend on reference points. Jump, I come
back down, so attached to Earth.....

You were supposed to cut the umbilicus!

> .. Famous Last Words: Everything seems to be working fine now.
KM> Barry's USB. <g>

The good news is it doesn't randomly lock up unless I do do something
with the USB. ...Well, winter's coming and in the past I did have the occasional problem with touching and the static zap caused everything to stop. (Anything come to mind with that forgotten detail? Insert USB
and/or static means _________.)

I've never had a static shock to the case make it reboot or freeze up... wonder if it might be a symptom of marginal hardware.
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Hi Ky!

Hey you won't belive this: the landline is down again!! Autumn's father
called at 2:30 to say he was on his way to pick her up -- line was a
little staticy. When he left about noticed the cordless phone/answering machine was blinking 'Line In Use'. Forget to/didn't properly hang up??
Nope. Called CenturyLine Service -- at least answered a lot quicker
than the previous times -- repair is supposed to be here tomorrow (today
when this gets uploaded). I did 'lightly' comment on the no shows and
delays from three (four?) weeks ago.

Whereas I've gotten rid of most of the old hardware as too slow won't
work for what I want it to do. Do have my DEC Rainbow 100 and the two "super XTs", mainly for sentimental reasons. The XTs, or at least one,
was supposed to run the X10 (home automation) stuff but ended up the
current computers could more easily.

I have the 286 (and wish I'd kept the souped-up XT, oh well) and
a few from the late 1990s in the basement, but the ones in
regular or even intermittent use ... well,

I'd probably have more interest in repairing and playing with my old/
antique computers if someone else wa around to appreciate. Another
computer geek of sorts. I can appreciate, don't need to do something
for someone else's approval, but my 'need for speed' is overriding the
need to repair. Don't need a separate computer just to run the X10 /
home automation stuff -- actually it's interface doesn't need to be
connected to a computer except for updates or a manual override.

Bullet is the oldest
everyday PC, with a 2008 motherboard and a quad-core, and the
oldest laptop still in occasional use is the same age. Anything
below a 3GHz Core2Duo is just too slow these days, and anything
below an iX is increasingly painful online.

Yup. Similar to I could wait for the computer to boot/reboot but I
don't want to so spent a little extra money and put the OS on a SSD.
When I buy the new motherboard and Intel CPU it will be fast, towards
top of the line, but to show off, but I don't like waiting for the
computer, plus I know I don't replace them all that often, so today's
upper line is next year's mid-line.

> If you use a teen-tiny you should get it to fit on a single sheet!
KM> If I used little teeny print I'd need little teeny eyes to read
KM> it...
KM> https://people.well.com/user/bubbles/LilTEyes.txt
Neat! (I was still in elementary school when that was written!)

Bubbles has been around a while <g>

Oldie but goodie! ...What's a keypunch? What's a tape reader? Dot
Matrix -- is she a character on Netflix?

KM> At least on Windows you can use ! or !! or !!! to force a front
KM> sort. This does not work on linux, which ignores the leading !
KM> mark.
Never tried a filename with a leading exclamation point -- doesn't
follow my naming rules.

We all have our weird quirks. <g>

But we're loveable because of (or is that despite?!) them!

> /home/barry/File Cabinet/Recipes/
> |-- aa_Cooking Tips
> |-- aa_Food Timeline
> | |-- Food Timeline: food history research service_files
KM> Food timeline, fish: Fresh, Stale, and Stinking in 3 days. <g>
How'd you know that was what was in there?!

I looked in your fridge, and got food poisoning. <g>

Ah poo: got those bags mixed up! It was supposed to be the gone-bad
food from the power failure was put in grocery bags and refrozen until
the night before trash day -- kept the trash from stinking and
attracting maggots.

KM> Yeah... that's why it irks me so much that Microsoft nuked all
KM> the old support files. They've done this twice now, apparently
KM> under the theory that this would force people to upgrade. No, it
KM> just annoys us... when they announced that they were killing the
KM> pre-XP files, I pulled all of 'em, and it was only 8GB. They
KM> didn't announce it when they killed most of the XP support files.
KM> :/
Yes, I was also thinking the "that'll force 'em!" 8 GB is nothing.
..Just for comparison found this: "the average person used 2.9GB of
mobile data per month in 2019". So not-quite three month's worth of
data was Microsoft's 'savings'.

At the time it was about a third of an average consumer HD. So a
bit more significant at the time, but still chicken feed by their standards.

Yes, like my DEC Rainbow 100 had 892 KB of RAM. (Seems like mine had
more but that's what I found.) At that time that amount was HUGE, and semi-costly. Now the remote that comes with the TV probably has more.

Didn't know Windows 10 was case-sensitive but not really following
Windows stuff. I'd prefer a lack of case sensitivity (in general --

I didn't know it either until I accidentally had two almost-same filenames...

Well 'test' and 'Test1' are close but no cee-gar! <gg>

does add a slight degree of bafflement to passwords): for me would make things a little easier. Guess I'll just go off and create my own distribution! <g>

Anyone can do it. <g>

But it also needs to work!

From what I've read the Raspeberry Pi will be using a 64-bit ARM instruction set soon. :)

About time!

The beta is available now; the other day downloaded a current Raspbian
(which is now called something like Rasp OS) and saw it was available.
Right now don't have time to play with beta.

> OTOH it seems to work fine for some people - maybe I'm missing a command
> switch?
KM> Wait for next generation hardware. <g>
do sleep 99999 ?

Does that work on me or the hardware? <g>

Yes. :)

New distro: Rip Van Winkle OS :)

Takes twenty years to boot and then it goes to a Desktop scene of a
forest? (Hey: if Microsoft can have a field in California then RVW can
have from a hamlet in New York!)

KM> Yeah, most of 'em do. In my experience they're not just
KM> barebones, but also lots of everyday stuff doesn't quite work.
KM> Inability to configure the desktop is no worry for a server, but
KM> annoying for a workstation. Another reason I don't bother looking
KM> at barebones distros, unless that's all there is.
Yes, would seem like a potential problem with random stuff not working because vital stuff wasn't installed originally. Minor experience with
that kind of thing: sometimes the programme will tell you what's missing, sometimes not and so off to search for an answer for a problem we're not quite sure is.

Yeah, and while Synaptic and some commanline magic can get around
it, why do all that extra work?

Because I enjoy pounding my head against the desktop? Actually did 'volunteer' for a sort of a trial last year: asked how to copy over the
'old' MythTV shows on Backend 2 ("BE2") to the new MythTV system on
Backend 3 "BE3"). A straight-over copy gives something like
TS06120180605-1630 for the displayed filename ==> Channel 6.1, 2018, June 5,
at 4:30 p.m. - ah! _Jeopardy!_!

So did get assistance, I think from one of the MythTV programmers. He
updated my database, which created a few minor problems as things
originally didn't line up, etc., etc. Did find a few utilities he had
added I needed. I added manually, I think he modified his beta utility
to check and then download if not found. Actually fun and interesting
on this end. :)

Could be -- I've been mild entertained by watching the text scroll on
the screen during installs. Most of the time no clue as to what the
output means, though have glimpsed bits of humour ==> instead of a stuffy-and-formal name for an error-catching utility it'll be called something like 'Boo-boo Grabber'.

LOL, yeah, seen a few of those :)

I do appreciate a bit of quirkiness. :)

KM> Which in this day and age is just insane. Yeah, you get an end
KM> result precisely tailored, but at the cost of a lot more time and
KM> bother, especially when 99% of installs want to wind up with the
KM> ordinary generic one-size-fits-all binary, so why individually
KM> build it?
It's those vocal One Percenters! WAG: carry-over from the days when
the installation needed to fit on a single CD?

Nope, from the habit of compiling drivers into the kernel (which
was horrible design, but was the only way to get any performance
out of it, back in the day). Which naturally extended to
everything.

"But we always did it this way!!!"

> > .. Picked up book called "Glue in Many Lands"; can't put it down.
> KM> Sticky situation!
> I am rather attached!
KM> To what??
I'm thinking the book but does depend on reference points. Jump, I come back down, so attached to Earth.....

You were supposed to cut the umbilicus!

I thought it odd it looked like he had two!

> .. Famous Last Words: Everything seems to be working fine now.
KM> Barry's USB. <g>
The good news is it doesn't randomly lock up unless I do do something
with the USB. ...Well, winter's coming and in the past I did have the occasional problem with touching and the static zap caused everything to stop. (Anything come to mind with that forgotten detail? Insert USB
and/or static means _________.)

I've never had a static shock to the case make it reboot or
freeze up... wonder if it might be a symptom of marginal
hardware.

We'll go with that! This one (same one with the USB issue) can albeit
rarely lock up with a static zap. FWIW I think not limited to the case
but also external powered USB 3.0 hub. I have a dead-ish thumbdrive
inserted into the top port of the hub. Has a metal case. In winter
touch the metal case of the thumbdrive to discharge and reduce the
possibility of a lockup when inserting another thumbdrive or USB device
at the hubm. (At the main unit just touch the case.)

And yes, things are properly grounded. Checked the wall outlets with an electrical tester. There's a fault indicator on the rear of the UPS.
Also tested the power strips plugged in to the UPS.



¯ BarryMartin3@ ®
¯ @MyMetronet.NET ®

...    I can see clearly now, the brain is gone...   
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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

Hey you won't belive this: the landline is down again!! Autumn's father

Barry! stop chewing on the phone line, you're not a squirrel! <g>

KM> I have the 286 (and wish I'd kept the souped-up XT, oh well) and
KM> a few from the late 1990s in the basement, but the ones in
KM> regular or even intermittent use ... well,

I'd probably have more interest in repairing and playing with my old/
antique computers if someone else wa around to appreciate. Another

Yeah, old hardware is kind of a group hobby <g>

computer geek of sorts. I can appreciate, don't need to do something
for someone else's approval, but my 'need for speed' is overriding the
need to repair. Don't need a separate computer just to run the X10 /

Same here... hopefully Silver and Fireball will be good for a few years,
at least if the ever-growing CPU cycles sucked up by the everyday web
don't keep expanding!!!

KM> Bullet is the oldest
KM> everyday PC, with a 2008 motherboard and a quad-core, and the
KM> oldest laptop still in occasional use is the same age. Anything
KM> below a 3GHz Core2Duo is just too slow these days, and anything
KM> below an iX is increasingly painful online.

Yup. Similar to I could wait for the computer to boot/reboot but I
don't want to so spent a little extra money and put the OS on a SSD.

SSD does help, even with faster PCs. I could sure tell the difference on
the i7 systems -- probably about a 30% everyday performance boost,
especially with disk-busy OSs like current Windows.

When I buy the new motherboard and Intel CPU it will be fast, towards
top of the line, but to show off, but I don't like waiting for the
computer, plus I know I don't replace them all that often, so today's
upper line is next year's mid-line.

Yep. Let someone else take the depreciation hit. I'll get trailing edge
or used and be no worse off.

I'm kinda eyeing a new DFI board (still in beta last I asked) that takes
a 9th generation i7 ... tho by the time I can justify the cost, the
board will still be about $260 when the CPU is down to 5 bucks! (they
only have two left in stock of the previous model, it's still $260 but
yes, the CPUs it supports start at 5 bucks!)

KM> Bubbles has been around a while <g>

Oldie but goodie! ...What's a keypunch? What's a tape reader? Dot
Matrix -- is she a character on Netflix?

LOL, yeah :D Bubbles (an old friend from L.A.) is an old-time
programmer... he did one of the early text-to-speech readers, a DOS commandline util that ran on a 286. I still laugh at how it pronounced "spaceman" so it sounded like "spazzie man" :D

> Never tried a filename with a leading exclamation point -- doesn't
> follow my naming rules.
KM> We all have our weird quirks. <g>
But we're loveable because of (or is that despite?!) them!

Dunno about you, but I use them to frighten the neighbors. <g>

> > /home/barry/File Cabinet/Recipes/
> > |-- aa_Cooking Tips
> > |-- aa_Food Timeline
> > | |-- Food Timeline: food history research service_files
> KM> Food timeline, fish: Fresh, Stale, and Stinking in 3 days. <g>
> How'd you know that was what was in there?!
KM> I looked in your fridge, and got food poisoning. <g>

Ah poo: got those bags mixed up! It was supposed to be the gone-bad
food from the power failure was put in grocery bags and refrozen until
the night before trash day -- kept the trash from stinking and
attracting maggots.

Good trick :) Tho today I'd just need to toss it outside... question
is, would it freeze first or would a raccoon haul it away first??

Yes, like my DEC Rainbow 100 had 892 KB of RAM. (Seems like mine had
more but that's what I found.) At that time that amount was HUGE, and semi-costly. Now the remote that comes with the TV probably has more.

Or the IBM1620 (first computer I ever touched) that had something like
4KB of RAM.

> From what I've read the Raspeberry Pi will be using a 64-bit ARM
> instruction set soon. :)
KM> About time!
The beta is available now; the other day downloaded a current Raspbian
(which is now called something like Rasp OS) and saw it was available.
Right now don't have time to play with beta.

I don't usually bother anymore either. I just want workee.

KM> New distro: Rip Van Winkle OS :)
Takes twenty years to boot and then it goes to a Desktop scene of a
forest? (Hey: if Microsoft can have a field in California then RVW can
have from a hamlet in New York!)

Haha... or a pic of the moon, with sheep jumping over it. <g>

KM> Yeah, and while Synaptic and some commandline magic can get around
KM> it, why do all that extra work?

Because I enjoy pounding my head against the desktop? Actually did

Explains the dents.

..    I can see clearly now, the brain is gone...   

Explains that too. <g>
þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Hollywood, Ca þ www.techware2k.com

--- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462
* Origin: ILink: CFBBS | cfbbs.no-ip.com | 856-933-7096 (454:1/1)

Hi Ky!

Hey you won't belive this: the landline is down again!! Autumn's father

Barry! stop chewing on the phone line, you're not a squirrel! <g>

But people have said I'm a little squirrely!

Did have Metronet install their phone option last Wednesday. A couple
of minor settings issues and appears now need to dial the area code but overall happy.

Did find an interesting quirk in the CenturyLink wiring. Originally I
had created my own 'demarc' after the official ones (there's the one
outside and there's something that looks like a doorbell chime and a
male outlet in the center. I had installed a 2x2" surface mount box so
if there was a problem with the house wiring could simply disconnect and
plug in the 'emergency' phone. Also had a sub-panel for feeds to
various parts of the house.

Anyway, AFAIK all of the house went to my demarc, so should be unplug
from the box, plug into the router, done. From CenturyLink to Metronet
in one easy step. Well, all of the house switched over except up here
in the Computer Room! Had a vague clue as the phone line to the
Computer Room was separate as needed to be unfiltered for DSL. And
there are two lines that originally went to the 2x2' demarc box, one had
been filtered, the other not.

But there is this mystery gray plastic thing which CenturyLink had
installed some time back. Ended up the Computer Room phone line went
to this gray thing and it continued into my demarc! Apparently wired
directly to the CenturyLink source, so in the past when I had telephone
issues and 'disconnected the house' up here was still connected!

So trace the Computer Room line, yup, goes to this mysterious gray box,
and on into my demarc. Double-check. OK -- deep breath - and snip!
Check: Computer Room now dead, rest of the house still on-line - whew!
Wire the Computer Room feed to a phone jack (RJ-14), into the splitter
the house is plugged in to -- have service to the Computer Room again,
service to the house still works. Yea!

KM> I have the 286 (and wish I'd kept the souped-up XT, oh well) and
KM> a few from the late 1990s in the basement, but the ones in
KM> regular or even intermittent use ... well,
I'd probably have more interest in repairing and playing with my old/ antique computers if someone else was around to appreciate. Another

Yeah, old hardware is kind of a group hobby <g>

And I had originally figured I'd be using the XT or maybe 486 as
dedicated to the X10/Home Automation, etc., stuff. Not necessary as the
new computers and OSs easily handle multitasking, multiple windows,
etc., so no need for separation.

computer geek of sorts. I can appreciate, don't need to do something
for someone else's approval, but my 'need for speed' is overriding the
need to repair. Don't need a separate computer just to run the X10 /

Same here... hopefully Silver and Fireball will be good for a few
years, at least if the ever-growing CPU cycles sucked up by the
everyday web don't keep expanding!!!

Yes, higher resolutions, reliance on exterior sites (thinking of when I
look at the Hy-Vee grocery ad on-line they provide the items on sale and
the prices but AWS probably provides the pictures).

KM> Bullet is the oldest
KM> everyday PC, with a 2008 motherboard and a quad-core, and the
KM> oldest laptop still in occasional use is the same age. Anything
KM> below a 3GHz Core2Duo is just too slow these days, and anything
KM> below an iX is increasingly painful online.
Yup. Similar to I could wait for the computer to boot/reboot but I
don't want to so spent a little extra money and put the OS on a SSD.

SSD does help, even with faster PCs. I could sure tell the
difference on the i7 systems -- probably about a 30% everyday
performance boost, especially with disk-busy OSs like current
Windows.

That 30% is probably right based on my limited experiences here. The
system I'm on currently is hybrid: OS on the SSD and data on the 'rust
drive'. It boots in less than a minute - used to be less but then added
links to the NAS, etc.

The MythTV Backend has a similar motherboard and CPU (only because of
issues with this system originally where appeared the CPU was one step
over what the motherboard really could use so got a new CPU - what am I
going to do with the old CPU?). It boots from a hard drive and is significantly slower.

When I buy the new motherboard and Intel CPU it will be fast, towards
top of the line, but to show off, but I don't like waiting for the
computer, plus I know I don't replace them all that often, so today's
upper line is next year's mid-line.

Yep. Let someone else take the depreciation hit. I'll get
trailing edge or used and be no worse off.

Right. I appreciate someone else doing the work for me and figuring out
the quirks.

I'm kinda eyeing a new DFI board (still in beta last I asked)
that takes a 9th generation i7 ... tho by the time I can justify
the cost, the board will still be about $260 when the CPU is down
to 5 bucks! (they only have two left in stock of the previous
model, it's still $260 but yes, the CPUs it supports start at 5
bucks!)

<snortle!> It is kind of funny how both parts are needed and sometimes
the motherboard is cheap while the CPU is epxensive and other times it's
the other way around.

KM> Bubbles has been around a while <g>
Oldie but goodie! ...What's a keypunch? What's a tape reader? Dot
Matrix -- is she a character on Netflix?

LOL, yeah :D Bubbles (an old friend from L.A.) is an old-time programmer... he did one of the early text-to-speech readers, a
DOS commandline util that ran on a 286. I still laugh at how it
pronounced "spaceman" so it sounded like "spazzie man" :D

:) Darn quirks in the English language! Phonetically 'space' is
proably spelt 'spaas'.

> Never tried a filename with a leading exclamation point -- doesn't
> follow my naming rules.
KM> We all have our weird quirks. <g>
But we're loveable because of (or is that despite?!) them!

Dunno about you, but I use them to frighten the neighbors. <g>

Here we're almost the friendliest! Neighbour to the south is a grump:
barely waves when waved to. Neighbour on the other side of him keeps to himself, has security cameras outside, and no one has seen his live-in girlfriend for a couple of months though her car is in still there.

Neighbour to my north is a older single lady who never goes into her
yard except to/from her car. She will initiate a wave hello and will
chat.

> > /home/barry/File Cabinet/Recipes/
> > |-- aa_Cooking Tips
> > |-- aa_Food Timeline
> > | |-- Food Timeline: food history research service_files
> KM> Food timeline, fish: Fresh, Stale, and Stinking in 3 days. <g>
> How'd you know that was what was in there?!
KM> I looked in your fridge, and got food poisoning. <g>
Ah poo: got those bags mixed up! It was supposed to be the gone-bad
food from the power failure was put in grocery bags and refrozen until
the night before trash day -- kept the trash from stinking and
attracting maggots.

Good trick :) Tho today I'd just need to toss it outside...
question is, would it freeze first or would a raccoon haul it
away first??

Here might be the racoon! Used to have one living or at least
sheltering under the garden shed in the back yard. Haven't seen him
probably since Spring. ...Haven't seen Chippy -- the chipmunk, of
course! Had several, at least one lived under the decorative garden
pond. Last year about this time would see one or more running along the
house with fat cheeks: carrying food to their nest for the winter.

Yes, like my DEC Rainbow 100 had 892 KB of RAM. (Seems like mine had
more but that's what I found.) At that time that amount was HUGE, and semi-costly. Now the remote that comes with the TV probably has more.

Or the IBM1620 (first computer I ever touched) that had something
like 4KB of RAM.

I was trying to find how much memory was in a Caller ID unit just to
compare.

> From what I've read the Raspberry Pi will be using a 64-bit ARM
> instruction set soon. :)
KM> About time!
The beta is available now; the other day downloaded a current Raspbian (which is now called something like Rasp OS) and saw it was available.
Right now don't have time to play with beta.

I don't usually bother anymore either. I just want workee.

I don't mind a little fiddling and tweaking but at this point I have to
many other projects and quite frankly my knowledge level isn't
sufficient to be that helpful to those creating/working on the main job.

KM> New distro: Rip Van Winkle OS :)
Takes twenty years to boot and then it goes to a Desktop scene of a
forest? (Hey: if Microsoft can have a field in California then RVW can
have from a hamlet in New York!)

Haha... or a pic of the moon, with sheep jumping over it. <g>

Hmm: could use a a sort of calendar: spring and the sheep are shorn so
really short coats; winter and some clutzy sheep slips on the ice and
lands in a snowpile.... Man in the Moon laughs.....

KM> Yeah, and while Synaptic and some commandline magic can get around
KM> it, why do all that extra work?
Because I enjoy pounding my head against the desktop? Actually did

Explains the dents.

In my head or on the desk?!

..    I can see clearly now, the brain is gone...   

Explains that too. <g>

Makes cleaning the wax out of my ears really easy!



¯ BarryMartin3@ ®
¯ @MyMetronet.NET ®

... Stove's only good for 1 burn. Is a WOOD stove. Metal stove last longer.
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47
þ wcECHO 4.2 ÷ ILink: The Safe BBS þ Bettendorf, IA

--- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462
* Origin: ILink: CFBBS | cfbbs.no-ip.com | 856-933-7096 (454:1/1)

.
|-- !PCLinuxOS
| |-- Misc
| | |-- Font-Manager
| | | |-- Fedora
| | | `-- OpenSuseBuildFactory
| | `-- pclos_br_mechanic_03.iso
| |-- PCFluxbox
| | |-- PCFluxboxOS32-Tinyflux-1.0-i586-k2.6.18.8-legacy.iso
| | `-- midiflux-i586-0_6_1b.iso
| |-- PCLOS-mine
| | |-- Konq
| | |-- PCLinuxOS64-!mine-KDE-2018-12-30.iso
| | |-- PCLinuxOS64-!mine-KDE-2019-05-10.iso
| | |-- PCLinuxOS64-!mine-KDE-2019-10-01.iso
| | |-- PCLinuxOS64-!mine-KDE-2020-06-20.iso
| | |-- PCLinuxOS64-!mine-TDE-2017-07-27.iso
| | |-- PCLinuxOS64-!mine-TDE-2017-07-31.iso
| | |-- PCLinuxOS64-!mine-TDE-2017-08-04.iso
| | |-- PCLinuxOS64-!mine-TDE-2017-08-12.iso
| | `-- misc
| | `-- uploads
| |-- PCLinusOS32-Gnome-2010.07.iso
| |-- PCLinusOS32-Gnome-2010.12.iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS32-BabyMate-2015.10.iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS32-Enlightenment-Light-2010.12.iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS32-Enlightenment-OnlyHuman-efl-1.18.4-e21.5-20161209.iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS32-Gnome2-2008.iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS32-KDE4-fullmonty-2011.01.iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS32-KDE4-fullmonty-2011.09.iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS32-KDE4-fullmonty-2013.12.iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS32-KDE4-fullmonty-2014.07.iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS32-Openbox-bonsai-2010.11.iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS32-TDE-2012.11.25 (nonofficial).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS32-TDE-2014.04.30 (nonofficial).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS32-TDE-2015.09.05 (nonofficial).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS32-TDE-bigdaddy-2016.01 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS32-TDE-mini-2016.04 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS32-TDE-nm_remaster_5sept2015.iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS32-Xfce-0.93-20060617.iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS32-Zen-mini-x32-2012.1 [Gnome3].iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS32-p92.iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-Cinnamon-international-beta1.3-2017.04 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-Enlightenment-23-2019.10.1 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-Enlightenment-23-2019.11 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-Enlightenment-OnlyHuman-e24.1-mini-20200704.iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-KDE4-fullmonty-2016.03.iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-KDE4-fullmonty-2016.07.15 (unknownsource).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-KDE4-minime-2017.03 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-KDE5--2019.12 (mega).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-KDE5-2017.03 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-KDE5-2017.04.iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-KDE5-2017.07.iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-KDE5-2018.06.iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-KDE5-2019.06.iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-KDE5-2019.07.iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-KDE5-2019.09.iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-KDE5-2019.10.iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-KDE5-2019.11.iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-KDE5-darkstar-2017.07 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-KDE5-darkstar-2019.02-test.iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-KDE5-magnum-2020.01.iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-KDE5-magnum-2020.05.iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-LXDE-2017.02 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-LXDE-2017.09 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-LXDE-2018.01 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-LXQt-2016.12 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-LXQt-2019.02 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-LXQt-2020.07 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-MATE-2017.04.iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-MATE-2019.08.iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-MATE-2019.09.iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-Openbox-2019.04 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-Openbox-2019.07 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-Openbox-2019.11 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-Openbox-creators-2019.07.1 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-TDE-2017.03 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-TDE-2017.05 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-TDE-2017.06 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-TDE-2018.06.16 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-TDE-2018.09 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-TDE-2018.11 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-TDE-2019.04 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-TDE-VBOX-05.18 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-TDE-bigdaddy-2016.08 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-TDE-bigdaddy-2016.08.03 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-TDE-bigdaddy-2017.06 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-TDE-bigdaddy-2019.08 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-TDE-bigdaddy-2019.09 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-TDE-bigdaddy-2019.10 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-TDE-bigdaddy-2019.12 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-TDE-bigdaddy-2020.05 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-TDE-bigdaddy-2020.07 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-TDE-bigdaddy-retro-2019.08 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-TDE-mini-2017.03 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-TDE-mini-2019.09 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-TDE-nm-20160907 (test).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-XFCE-2017.02 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-XFCE-2017.09 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-XFCE-2018.05 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-XFCE-2019.07 (community).iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-XFCE-2019.09.iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-XFCE-Mignon-2016.06.iso
| |-- PCLinuxOS64-Zen-mini-x64-2012.1.test2 [Gnome3].iso
| |-- SAM-2007 [XFCE].iso
| |-- Spins
| | |-- ArcticOS-Plasma-2019-11-13-1636.iso
| | `-- MyPCOpenbox-2019-11-01-0011.iso
| |-- TDE
| |-- TinyMe
| | |-- TinyMe-2008.0.i586.iso
| | |-- TinyMe-2008.1-Droplet.i586.iso
| | |-- TinyMe-Acorn-Alpha-2012.03.05.i586.iso
| | `-- TinyMe-Acorn-Alpha-2012.03.05.x86_64 [Unity].iso
| `-- Uplos
| |-- Uplos-2017.01_ITA_Trinity_x32.iso
| |-- Uplos-2017.02_ENG_Xfce_x32.iso
| |-- Uplos-2017.03_ENG_Lxde_x32.iso
| |-- Uplos-2017.10_ENG_Mate_x32.iso
| `-- Uplos-2018.01_ENG-community-Mate-next.iso
|-- !Unsorted
| |-- 4MLinux-31.0-32bit.iso
| |-- ALive-15.0.iso
| |-- AVLinux-isotester-x64-2019.4.10.iso
| |-- AntiX-17.4.1_386-full.iso
| |-- AntiX-17.4.1_x64-full.iso
| |-- Archaic_KDE_4_desktop.x86_64-0.0.3.iso
| |-- AudioPhile-Linux-V.4.0.iso
| |-- BlackLabLinux-115-x64.iso
| |-- Chromixium-1.5-amd64.iso
| |-- Crowz-1.0_RC_ob-x64-2017Apr30.iso
| |-- CubLinux-1.0RC-amd64.iso
| |-- DamnSmallLinux-Not-01RC4.iso
| |-- DamnSmallLinux.4.4.10.iso
| |-- Deepin-15.11-amd64.iso
| |-- Deli_0.8.0-full.iso
| |-- Dilos-2.0.1.63-amd64.iso
| |-- Elementaryos-0.4-stable-amd64.20160921.iso
| |-- Feather-0.7.5.iso
| |-- Feren OS x64.iso
| |-- Freespire-3-x64.iso
| |-- Geexbox-2.0-i386.iso
| |-- Geexbox-2.0-x86_64.iso
| |-- Heads-0.4-amd64-live.iso
| |-- KaOS-2017.09-x86_64.iso
| |-- Korora-live-kde-25-x86_64.iso
| |-- Kwort-4.3.iso
| |-- MX-18.3_386.iso
| |-- MX-18.3_x64.iso
| |-- Microwatt-R10-64bit.iso
| |-- Neon-pm-devedition-gitunstable-20180305-1543-amd64.iso
| |-- Neptune6-Plasma5-20190816.iso
| |-- NimbleX-2010_Beta.iso
| |-- Obarun-JWM-2019.08.16-x86_64.iso
| |-- OracleLinux-R8-U1-x86_64-dvd.iso
| |-- Osgeo-live-11.0-amd64.iso
| |-- Pureos-8.0-gnome-live_20180904-amd64.hybrid.iso
| |-- RebeccaBlackOS_i386.iso
| |-- RebornOS-2019.10.01-x86_64.iso
| |-- Rem-ede-final-1.iso
| |-- SimplyMEPIS-DVD_11.0.12_32.iso
| |-- Sisyphus-tde-latest-i586-2017011.iso
| |-- Sisyphus-tde-latest-x86_64-20170111.iso
| |-- Solus-3-MATE.iso
| |-- Solus-4.0-Budgie.iso
| |-- SourceMage_smgl-x86_64-silver-thistle-2.6.19.2-mod.iso
| |-- TinyCore-Pure64-10.1.iso
| |-- TinyCore-current.iso
| |-- ToriOS-1.5-jessie.iso
| |-- Trisquel-mini_7.0_amd64.iso
| |-- Trisquel_7.0_amd64.iso
| |-- Trisquel_8.0_amd64.iso
| |-- Uberstudent-4.3-xfce-amd64.iso
| |-- Ultimate-Edition-5.4-x64-lite.iso
| |-- UnityLinux-live-xfce-30-x86_64-2019093010.iso
| |-- WattOS-R10-64LXDE (1).iso
| |-- WattOS-R10-64LXDE.iso
| |-- crunchbang-11-20130506-i686.iso
| `-- kiara-16.01-2012.10.23.iso
|-- !Utility ISOs
| |-- AcronisTrueImage2017_5554.iso
| |-- Excellent_Samba4_Appliance.x86_64-1.1.16.iso
| |-- F-Secure-rescue-cd-3.16-73600.iso
| |-- FreeNAS-11.1-U7.iso
| |-- FreeNAS-11.2-U6.iso
| |-- FreeNAS-8.3.2-RELEASE-x64.iso
| |-- FreeNAS-8.3.2-RELEASE-x86.iso
| |-- FreeNAS-9.2.1.9-RELEASE-x64.iso
| |-- FreeNAS-9.2.1.9-RELEASE-x86.iso
| |-- PartedMagic_2013_08_01 (free).iso
| |-- PartedMagic_2013_08_01b.iso
| |-- Phone
| |-- Ubuntu_boot-repair-disk-64bit.iso
| |-- XigmaNAS-x64-LiveCD-12.1.0.4.7542.iso
| |-- clonezilla-live-2.6.4-10-amd64.iso
| |-- clonezilla-live-2.6.7-28-amd64.iso
| |-- gibraltar-(firewall)-3.1.iso
| |-- gparted-live-0.29.0-1-i686.iso
| |-- gparted-live-0.33.0-1-amd64.iso
| |-- gparted-live-0.33.0-1-i686.iso
| |-- gparted-live-1.0.0-1-amd64.iso
| |-- gparted-live-1.0.0-1-i686-pae.iso
| |-- gparted-live-1.0.0-1-i686.iso
| |-- openmediavault_2.1_amd64 (NAS).iso
| |-- openmediavault_4.1.22-amd64 (NAS).iso
| |-- rescatux-0.73.iso
| |-- rescatux_cdrom_usb_hybrid_i386_amd64-486_0.30.2_sg2d.iso
| |-- super_grub2_disk_hybrid_2.02s3.iso
| |-- super_grub2_disk_hybrid_2.04s1.iso
| |-- systemrescuecd-6.0.3.iso
| |-- systemrescuecd-x86-5.1.1.iso
| |-- trinity-rescue-kit.3.4-build-372.iso
| `-- turnkey-fileserver-15.0-stretch-amd64.iso
|-- Android
| |-- android-x86-6.0_20160129.iso
| |-- android-x86_64-6.0-r1.iso
| `-- android-x86_64-8.1-r2-kernel49.iso
|-- Arch-Manjaro
| |-- archlinux-2019.09.01-x86_64.iso
| `-- manjaro-kde-19.0-pre3-200120-linux55.iso
|-- BSD-Solaris
| |-- GhostBSD11.0-ALPHA1-20170209-200437-mate-amd64.iso
| |-- GhostBSD19.09-2019-08-10-Mate.iso
| |-- GhostBSD19.09-2019-08-10-XFCE.iso
| |-- Icaros-pc-i386-2.2_Xmas16Preview.iso
| |-- Illumos
| | |-- dilos-2.0.2.27-amd64.iso
| | |-- omniosce-r151030h.iso
| | `-- omnitribblix-0m21lx.0.iso
| |-- Open-Indiana-hipster-gui-20190511.iso
| |-- OpenSolaris-0906-x86.iso
| |-- Trident-BETA3-x64-20180925.iso
| |-- TrueOS-Desktop-2017-02-22-x64-DVD.iso
| |-- dfly-x86_64-5.2.2_REL.iso
| |-- dfly-x86_64-gui-3.4.3_REL.iso
| `-- icaros-pc-i386-2.1.3.iso
|-- Buntu
| |-- Kubuntu-10.10-trinity3-desktop-amd64.iso
| |-- Kubuntu-10.10-trinity3-enterprise-amd64.iso
| |-- Kubuntu-14.04.5-desktop-KDE4-amd64.iso
| |-- Kubuntu-17.04-desktop-KDE5-amd64.iso
| |-- Kubuntu-17.04-desktop-amd64.iso
| |-- Lubuntu-LXQt-19.04-desktop-amd64.iso
| |-- Mythbuntu-14.04.1-desktop-amd64.iso
| |-- TDE-14.0.4-ubuntu-14.04.0-desktop-amd64.iso
| |-- TDE-14.0.4-ubuntu-16.04.1-desktop-amd64.iso
| |-- TDE-14.0.4-ubuntu-16.04.1-desktop-i386.iso
| |-- TDE-14.0.4-ubuntu-16.04.1-desktop-iamd64.iso
| |-- TDE-14.0.6-ubuntu-18.04.2-desktop-amd64.iso
| |-- TDE-14.0.6-ubuntu-18.04.2-desktop-i386.iso
| |-- TDE-3.5.13.1-ubuntu-12.04.1-desktop-amd64.iso
| |-- TDE-3.5.13.1-ubuntu-12.04.1-desktop-i386.iso
| |-- Ubuntu-Studio-17.04-dvd-amd64.iso
| |-- Ubuntu-Studio-19.04-dvd-amd64.iso
| |-- Ubuntu-budgie-19.10-beta-desktop-amd64.iso
| |-- XPubuntu_1204.iso
| `-- XPubuntu_14.04_i386.iso
|-- Corel
| |-- Corel Linux.iso
| |-- CorelDRAW 9 Linux CD 1.iso
| |-- CorelDRAW 9 Linux CD 2.iso
| |-- CorelDRAW 9 Linux CD 3.iso
| |-- WP4LinuxBible.iso
| |-- WordPerfect Office 2000 Deluxe CD 1.iso
| |-- WordPerfect Office 2000 Deluxe CD 2.iso
| `-- corel_linux_1.2.iso
|-- Debian-Devuan
| |-- DanAllen
| |-- Spins
| | |-- Miyo-JWM-i686_PAE-20200122.iso
| | `-- Miyo-JWM-x86_64_UEFI-20200123.iso
| |-- debian-10.0.0-amd64-kde-live.iso
| |-- debian-10.1.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso
| |-- debian-10.1.0-amd64-DVD-2.iso
| |-- debian-10.1.0-amd64-DVD-3.iso
| |-- debian-10.1.0-amd64-kde-live.iso
| |-- debian-10.1.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso
| |-- debian-10.1.0-i386-DVD-1.iso
| |-- debian-10.1.0-i386-DVD-2.iso
| |-- debian-10.1.0-i386-DVD-3.iso
| |-- debian-10.1.0-i386-xfce-CD-1.iso
| |-- debian-8.8.0-amd64-kde-desktop-live.iso
| |-- debian-9.8.0-amd64-kde-live.iso
| |-- debian-Hurd-mini.iso
| |-- debian-firmware-10.1.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso
| |-- debian-live-10.1.0-i386-cinnamon.iso
| |-- debian-live-10.1.0-i386-kde.iso
| |-- debian-live-10.2.0-amd64-kde+nonfree.iso
| |-- debian-live-10.2.0-i386-kde+nonfree.iso
| |-- debian-sid-hurd-i386-DVD-1.iso
| |-- debian-squeeze-custom-amd64-0315.iso
| |-- debian-squeeze-custom-amd64-0808.iso
| |-- debian-squeeze-custom-i386-0315.iso
| |-- devuan_ascii_2.1_amd64_dvd-1.iso
| `-- devuan_jessie_1.0.0_amd64_DVD.iso
|-- ExeGnuLinux (Devuan)
| |-- exegnulinux_amd64_20161230.iso
| `-- exegnulinux_amd64_20190714-ascii.iso
|-- Fedora-RedHat-CentOS
| |-- CentOS-7-x86_64-LiveKDE-1810.iso
| |-- CentOS-7-x86_64-LiveKDE-1908.iso
| |-- CentOS-7-x86_64-Minimal-1611.iso
| |-- Fedora-Astronomy_KDE-Live-x86_64-26-20170517.n.0.iso
| |-- Fedora-Astronomy_KDE-Live-x86_64-30-1.2.iso
| |-- Fedora-Cinnamon-Live-x86_64-26-20170516.n.0.iso
| |-- Fedora-Cinnamon-Live-x86_64-30-1.2.iso
| |-- Fedora-Cinnamon-Live-x86_64-31-1.9.iso
| |-- Fedora-Design_suite-Live-x86_64-26-20170517.n.0.iso
| |-- Fedora-Design_suite-Live-x86_64-30-20190427.n.1.iso
| |-- Fedora-Games-Live-x86_64-30-1.2.iso
| |-- Fedora-KDE-Live-i386-30-1.2.iso
| |-- Fedora-KDE-Live-x86_64-22-3.iso
| |-- Fedora-KDE-Live-x86_64-26-20170516.n.0.iso
| |-- Fedora-KDE-Live-x86_64-28-1.1.iso
| |-- Fedora-KDE-Live-x86_64-29-1.2.iso
| |-- Fedora-KDE-Live-x86_64-30-1.2.iso
| |-- Fedora-KDE-Live-x86_64-31-1.9.iso
| |-- Fedora-KDE-Live-x86_64-32-1.6.iso
| |-- Fedora-LXDE-Live-x86_64-26-20170521.n.0.iso
| |-- Fedora-LXQt-Live-x86_64-26-20170521.n.0.iso
| |-- Fedora-MATE_Compiz-Live-x86_64-26-20170521.n.0.iso
| |-- Fedora-Server-dvd-x86_64-30-1.2.iso
| |-- Fedora-Silverblue-ostree-x86_64-30-1.2.iso
| |-- Fedora-Workstation-Live-x86_64-25-1.3.iso
| |-- Fedora-Workstation-Live-x86_64-26-20170516.n.0.iso
| |-- Fedora-Workstation-Live-x86_64-29-1.2.iso
| `-- Fedora-Xfce-Live-x86_64-26-20170521.n.0.iso
|-- Gentoo-Sabayon
| |-- Gentoo_livedvd-amd64-multilib-20160704.iso
| |-- Gentoo_livedvd-x86-amd64-32ul-20160704.iso
| |-- Gentoo_x64_install-amd64-minimal-20190915T214502Z.iso
| |-- Sabayon_Linux_17.03_amd64_KDE.iso
| |-- Sabayon_Linux_17.03_amd64_LXQt.iso
| |-- Sabayon_Linux_17.03_amd64_Xfce.iso
| `-- Sabayon_Linux_19.03_amd64_KDE.iso
|-- Kanotix
| |-- Kanotix32-(Debian 8) spitfire-nightly-KDE-20170527.iso
| |-- Kanotix32-(Debian 8) spitfire-nightly-LXDE-20170527.iso
| |-- Kanotix64-(Debian 10) silverfire-nightly-KDE-20190930.iso
| |-- Kanotix64-(Debian 8) spitfire-nightly-KDE-20170516.iso
| `-- Kanotix64-(Debian 8) spitfire-nightly-LXDE-20170527.iso
|-- Knoppix
| |-- KNOPPIX_V7.0.5CD-2012-12-21-EN.iso
| `-- KNOPPIX_V8.6-2019-08-08-EN.iso
|-- Mandrake-Mandriva-Mageia
| |-- Mageia-4.1-x86_64-DVD.iso
| |-- Mageia-5.1-LiveDVD-KDE4-x86_64-DVD.iso
| |-- Mageia-6-i586-DVD.iso
| |-- Mageia-6-sta2-LiveDVD-Plasma-x86_64-DVD.iso
| |-- Mageia-6-sta2-LiveDVD-xfce4-x86_64-DVD.iso
| |-- Mageia-6.0-LiveDVD-KDE5Plasma-x86_64-DVD.iso
| |-- Mageia-7.0-beta1-Live-Plasma-x86_64.iso
| |-- Mageia-7.0-x86_64.iso
| |-- Mageia-7.1-Live-Plasma-x86_64.iso
| |-- Mageia-7.1-i586.iso
| |-- Mageia-7.1-x86_64.iso
| |-- Mandrake-10.0-Community-Download-CD1.i586.iso
| |-- Mandrake-10.0-Community-Download-CD2.i586.iso
| |-- Mandrake-10.0-Community-Download-CD3.i586.iso
| |-- Mandrakelinux-10.1-Official-Download-DVD.i586.iso
| |-- Mandriva.2011.i586.1.iso
| |-- Mandriva.2011.x86_64.1.iso
| |-- OpenMandrivaLx-2014.2-KDE4.x86_64.iso
| |-- OpenMandrivaLx.3.01-PLASMA.x86_64.iso
| |-- OpenMandrivaLx.3.03-PLASMA.i586.iso
| |-- OpenMandrivaLx.3.03-PLASMA.x86_64.iso
| `-- OpenMandrivaLx.4.0-plasma.x86_64.iso
|-- Mint
| |-- Mint-18.1-Cinnamon-64bit.iso
| |-- Mint-18.1-KDE5-64bit.iso
| |-- Mint-18.3-Cinnamon-32bit.iso
| |-- Mint-18.3-Cinnamon-64bit.iso
| |-- Mint-18.3-KDE-32bit.iso
| |-- Mint-18.3-KDE-64bit.iso
| |-- Mint-19.1-Cinnamon-64bit.iso
| |-- Mint-DebianEdition-2-201701-cinnamon-64bit-beta.iso
| |-- Mint-DebianEdition-2-201701-mate-64bit-beta.iso
| |-- Mint-DebianEdition-3-201808-cinnamon-64bit.iso
| |-- Mint-DebianEdition-4-20200214-cinnamon-64bit-beta.iso
| `-- MyLindows-2019.09.1 (Mint Cinnamon 19.2).iso
|-- Other OSs
| |-- Delicate-0.1-alpha5.iso
| |-- DexOS
| | `-- DexOSv6.iso
| |-- GNUstep
| | |-- GNUSTEP-amd64-2.5.1.iso
| | |-- GNUSTEP-i486-1.9.iso
| | `-- GNUSTEP-i686-2.0.iso
| |-- Haiku
| | |-- haiku-nightly-anyboot.iso
| | |-- haiku-r1beta1-x86_64-anyboot.iso
| | `-- haiku-r1beta1-x86_gcc2_hybrid-anyboot.iso
| |-- Jinx
| | |-- jinx-live.iso
| | `-- jinx-mini.iso
| |-- MenuetOS
| |-- Minix_R3.3.0-588a35b.iso
| |-- OnionDSL
| | `-- oniondsl-0.1.1.iso
| |-- Plan9.iso
| |-- TempleOS
| |-- Visopsys
| | |-- visopsys-0.8.iso
| | |-- visopsys-0.83.iso
| | `-- visopsys-0.84.iso
| `-- WOMP
| `-- womp-0.6-beta3-allcodecs-extrafonts-network-ppp-firebird.iso
|-- PowerPC-All Distros
| |-- !Info
| |-- Debian-10.0-powerpc-NETINST-1.iso
| |-- GNUSTEP-powerpc-1.8.iso
| |-- Gentoo-powerpc-minimal-20190819T102303Z.iso
| |-- Lubuntu-14.04.5-desktop-powerpc.iso
| |-- Lubuntu-16.04-desktop-powerpc.iso
| |-- MandrakeLinux-9.1-CD1.ppc.iso
| |-- MandrakeLinux-9.1-CD2.ppc.iso
| |-- MandrakeLinux-9.1-CD3.ppc.iso
| |-- Mandriva-Linux-2005-Limited-Edition-CD1.ppc.iso
| |-- Mandriva-Linux-2005-Limited-Edition-CD2.ppc.iso
| |-- Mandriva-Linux-2005-Limited-Edition-CD3.ppc.iso
| |-- MintPPC 11 - G4 - mini.iso
| |-- Morphos-3.11.iso
| |-- Morphos-3.9.iso
| |-- PowerPup_beta.iso
| |-- Slackintosh-12.1-dvd-install.iso
| |-- Xubuntu-10.04-desktop-powerpc.iso
| `-- Yellowdog-6.2-ppc-DVD_20090629.iso
|-- Puppy Kennel
| |-- !Info
| | `-- Smokey's ISO list
| | `-- images
| |-- Debian Dog
| | |-- BionicDog32_2018-06-04-firmware_all.iso
| | |-- BionicDog32_2018-06-04.iso
| | |-- BionicDog64-Cinnamon-ETP_2018-08-27.iso
| | |-- BionicDog64_2018-06-04-firmware_all.iso
| | |-- BionicDog64_2018-06-04.iso
| | |-- BusterDog-openbox_jwm-2019-12-29_32-bit.iso
| | |-- BusterDog-openbox_jwm-2019-12-29_64-bit.iso
| | |-- DebianDog-Jessie-jwm_icewm-2015-09-02-PAE.iso
| | |-- DebianDog-Jessie-jwm_icewm-2015-09-02.iso
| | |-- DebianDog-Jessie-openbox_xfce-2015-09-02.iso
| | |-- DebianDog-Jessie-openbox_xfce-jwm-2016-10-16.iso
| | |-- DebianDog-Squeeze-hybrid-2016-04-30.iso
| | |-- DebianDog-Wheezy-jwm_icewm-2015-09-02-PAE.iso
| | |-- DebianDog-Wheezy-jwm_icewm-2015-09-02.iso
| | |-- DebianDog-Wheezy-openbox_xfce-2015-09-02-PAE.iso
| | |-- DebianDog-Wheezy-openbox_xfce-2015-09-02.iso
| | |-- DebianDog64-Jessie-openbox-2015-12-15.iso
| | |-- DebianDog64-Jessie-openbox-2016-03-20.iso
| | |-- DevuanDog
| | | |-- DevuanDog-2019-03-29-x64.iso
| | | |-- DevuanDog-2019-03-29-x86.iso
| | | |-- DevuanDog-openbox_jwm-2019-09-28_32-bit.iso
| | | |-- DevuanDog-openbox_jwm-2019-09-28_64-bit.iso
| | | |-- DevuanDog-openbox_lxde-2019-07-11_x86.iso
| | | |-- DevuanDog-openbox_xfce-2019-07-11_x64.iso
| | | `-- DevuanDog-openbox_xfce-2019-07-11_x86.iso
| | |-- Info
| | |-- MintPup-jwm-icewm-hybrid-2015.07.26.iso
| | |-- MintPup-jwm-icewm-hybrid-2016.07.05.iso
| | |-- Misc
| | |-- Simplicity1910XAlpha-2019-08-23.iso
| | |-- SparkyBonsai-64-2019.iso
| | |-- StretchDog32-openbox_xfce-jwm-2017-10-10.iso
| | |-- StretchDog64-openbox_xfce-jwm-2017-10-10.iso
| | |-- TrinityDog-Jessie-2017-07-18.iso
| | |-- TrinityDog-Stretch-2017-07-18.iso
| | |-- XenialDog_32bit-openbox_jwm-2017-01-22-firmware-all.iso
| | `-- XenialDog_64bit-openbox_jwm-2017-01-22-firmware-all.iso
| |-- EasyOS
| | |-- easy-1.0.iso
| | |-- easy-2.1-en.iso
| | `-- easypup-2.2.7-en.iso
| |-- Fatdog
| | |-- Fatdog64-611-seamonkey.iso
| | |-- Fatdog64-710.iso
| | |-- Fatdog64-720.iso
| | |-- Fatdog64-721.iso
| | `-- Fatdog64-802.iso
| |-- LxPupBionic-19.03+7 (LXDE).iso
| |-- LxPupSc-19.09+0-uefi-T-k64.iso
| |-- LxPupSc-Qt-18.10M-k64.iso
| |-- MBPup
| | |-- MBPUP32-v1.3-20180512.iso
| | |-- MBPUP64-v1.3-20180512.iso
| | |-- MBPUP64DEV-v1.3-20180512.iso
| | |-- MBPUP64SRV-v1.3-20180512.iso
| | `-- MBPUP64TVDESK-v1.3-20180512.iso
| |-- Macpup_550.iso
| |-- Pets
| | `-- JWM themes
| |-- Puppy_0.9.9-firefox-2003.iso
| |-- Puppy_214X-top11.iso
| |-- Puppy_4.2.1-k2.6.25.16-seamonkey.iso
| |-- Puppy_4.2retro-k2.6.21.7-seamonkey.iso
| |-- Puppy_Bionicpup32-8.0-uefi.iso
| |-- Puppy_Bionicpup64-8.0-uefi.iso
| |-- Puppy_Carolina-1.0 (Xfce).iso
| |-- Puppy_Debian-stretch-7.5-uefi-k4.19.56 (recent hardware).iso
| |-- Puppy_Debian-stretch-7.5-uefi-k4.9.149 (Legacy hardware).iso
| |-- Puppy_LXDE-pup411-k2.6.29.1-dillo-v01.1-MU.iso
| |-- Puppy_Lighthouse215SeaM_Beta5.iso
| |-- Puppy_Lighthouse64-6.02-B2.iso
| |-- Puppy_Lighthouse64-6.02-B2_Mariner (KDE).iso
| |-- Puppy_Mage-2-0.12.07 (Mageia).iso
| |-- Puppy_Mage-2-1.9.95 (Mageia).iso
| |-- Puppy_Precise-5.5-swissknife-dvd-2013-nov-csipesz.iso
| |-- Puppy_Precise-5.7.1-retro.iso
| |-- Puppy_Quirky-unicorn-6.2.1.91.iso
| |-- Puppy_Racy-5.5.iso
| |-- Puppy_RacyNOP-5.3.2.iso
| |-- Puppy_Slacko-5.4-firefox-4g.iso
| |-- Puppy_Slacko32-6.3.2-uefi.iso
| |-- Puppy_Slacko64-6.3.2-uefi.iso
| |-- Puppy_Tahr32-6.0.5_PAE.iso
| |-- Puppy_Tahr64-6.0.5.iso
| |-- Puppy_Unicorn-6.2.1.91.iso
| |-- Puppy_Wary-5.3-barebones.iso
| |-- Puppy_Wary-5.3.iso
| |-- Puppy_Wary-5.5.iso
| |-- Puppy_Winpup-64-11-09-2016.iso
| |-- Puppy_Winpup-ver-2-nov-29-2016.iso
| |-- Puppy_X-tahr-2.0.iso
| |-- Puppy_XP-like_4.3.1.iso
| |-- Puppy_XP-like_5.28-Csipesz (2014).iso
| |-- Puppy_Xenial-Xfce-R5[fixed].iso
| |-- Puppy_Xenial_32-7.5-uefi.iso
| |-- Puppy_Xenial_64-7.0.8.5-uefi.iso
| |-- Puppy_Xenial_64-7.5-uefi.iso
| |-- Puppy_xslacko-slim-4.4r34.iso
| |-- Spins
| | |-- Fluppy-013-386.iso
| | |-- LegacyOS2017 (for P3).iso
| | |-- Saluki-023.iso
| | |-- chromebook-pupv1.iso
| | |-- fluppy-0.13bare2018.iso
| | |-- lupu-528.005.iso
| | |-- precise-light-5.7.1+0.iso
| | `-- tazpuppy-5.0-beta-32.iso
| `-- manna-6.4.2.iso
|-- Q4OS (Debian)
| |-- XPq4
| | `-- XPQ4 - Windows look'n feel for your Q4OS desktop_files
| |-- q4os-1.8-i686pae-live.r1.iso
| |-- q4os-1.8.5-x64 (live).iso
| |-- q4os-2.4-x64.r8.iso
| |-- q4os-2.5-x64.r1.iso
| |-- q4os-3.10-i386-instcd.r2.iso
| |-- q4os-3.10-x64-tde.r2.iso
| |-- q4os-3.11-i386-instcd.tde.r1.iso
| |-- q4os-3.12-x64-instcd.r3.iso
| |-- q4os-3.8-i386-instcd.r5.iso
| |-- q4os-3.8-x64-tde.r4.iso
| |-- q4os-3.9-i386-instcd.r1.iso
| |-- q4os-3.9-x64-tde.r1.iso
| `-- q4os-3.9-x64.r1 (KDE).iso
|-- ReactOS
| |-- RCs
| | |-- ReactOS-0.4.12-RC-55-g3a6cb85-Live.iso
| | |-- ReactOS-0.4.12-RC-55-g3a6cb85.iso
| | |-- ReactOS-0.4.6r-bootcd-74564-dbg.iso
| | |-- ReactOS-0.4.6r-livecd-74564-dbg.iso
| | |-- reactos-bootcd-0.4.14-dev-1162-g8532c3b-x86-gcc-lin-dbg.iso
| | |-- reactos-bootcd-0.4.15-dev-220-gd286777-x86-gcc-lin-dbg.iso
| | |-- reactos-livecd-0.4.14-dev-1162-g8532c3b-x86-gcc-lin-dbg.iso
| | `-- reactos-livecd-0.4.15-dev-220-gd286777-x86-gcc-lin-dbg.iso
| |-- ReactOS-0.4.11-Live.iso
| |-- ReactOS-0.4.11.iso
| |-- ReactOS-0.4.12-Live.iso
| |-- ReactOS-0.4.12.iso
| |-- ReactOS-0.4.13-Live.iso
| |-- ReactOS-0.4.13.iso
| |-- ReactOS-0.4.6-Live.iso
| |-- ReactOS-0.4.6.iso
| |-- ReactOS-0.4.8-Live.iso
| `-- Source
|-- RoboLinux
| |-- Robolinux64-Cinnamon-v8.10.iso
| `-- Robolinux64-Cinnamon-v9.7.iso
|-- Slack
| |-- slackware64-14.2-install-dvd.iso
| |-- slax-trinity-32bit-9.9.0.iso
| `-- slax-trinity-64bit-9.9.0.iso
|-- Slitaz
| |-- slitaz-rolling-core-5in1.iso
| |-- slitaz-rolling-core.iso
| |-- slitaz-rolling-core64.iso
| |-- slitaz-rolling-loram.iso
| |-- slitaz-rolling-preinit.iso
| `-- slitaz-rolling.iso
|-- Sparky
| |-- sparkylinux-2020.05-x86_64-lxqt (rolling).iso
| |-- sparkylinux-4.5.2-x86_64-lxde.iso
| `-- sparkylinux-5.11-i686-lxqt (stable).iso
`-- SuSE
|-- GeckoLinux_ROLLING_Plasma.x86_64-999.200729.0.iso
|-- Lune_Leap.x86_64-1.2.0.iso
|-- Netware
| |-- NW65SP8_OVL_DVD.iso
| `-- OpenEnterpriseServer2018-SP1-DVD-x86_64-DVD1.iso
|-- OpenBuildService-server.x86_64-2.9.51-oem-Build3.6.install.part.iso
|-- PsychOS.i686-2.6.1-password=linux.iso
|-- openSUSE-Leap-15.1-DVD-x86_64.iso
|-- openSUSE-Leap-15.1-KDE-Live-x86_64-Snapshot9.124-Media.iso
|-- openSUSE-Leap-15.1-KDE-Live-x86_64-Snapshot9.132-Media.iso
|-- openSUSE-Leap-15.1-Rescue-CD-x86_64-Snapshot9.166-Media.iso
|-- openSUSE-Tumbleweed-DVD-x86_64-Snapshot20190822-Media.iso
|-- openSUSE-Tumbleweed-KDE-Live-x86_64-Snapshot20190824-Media.iso
|-- openSUSE_Leap_42.1_TDE.x86_64-0.0.2 (mine).iso
`-- openSuSE-Windows_9_Bubble.x86_64-9.3.4.iso

71 directories, 539 files
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Hi Ky!

KY MOFFET wrote to ALL <=-

<snip>
|-- !Unsorted
| |-- 4MLinux-31.0-32bit.iso
| |-- ALive-15.0.iso
| |-- AVLinux-isotester-x64-2019.4.10.iso
<etc., etc.,>

Too many 'Unsorted', yes! <gg>



¯ BarryMartin3@ ®
¯ @MyMetronet.NET ®

... Computer Cooking: DATA: Sort-a like-a fig-a
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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

KY MOFFET wrote to ALL <=-

<snip>
|-- !Unsorted
| |-- 4MLinux-31.0-32bit.iso
| |-- ALive-15.0.iso
| |-- AVLinux-isotester-x64-2019.4.10.iso
<etc., etc.,>

Too many 'Unsorted', yes! <gg>

Haha... yeah, the debate is whether I should sort 'em purely by distro,
or make a tree hierarchy by family, which appeals to my sense of
organization, but I'd never find half of 'em again, cuz who remembers
that Some Obscure Distro was based on a derivative of Debian by way of
Ubuntu via Mint? and then there's the ones that jump ship, like LMDE.

Have you SEEN the family tree? it's... astonishing....

https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=family-tree

Trees somewhat separated out, and possibly more up to date:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_distributions
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Hi Ky!

<snip>
|-- !Unsorted
| |-- 4MLinux-31.0-32bit.iso
| |-- ALive-15.0.iso
| |-- AVLinux-isotester-x64-2019.4.10.iso
<etc., etc.,>
Too many 'Unsorted', yes! <gg>

Haha... yeah, the debate is whether I should sort 'em purely by
distro, or make a tree hierarchy by family, which appeals to my
sense of organization, but I'd never find half of 'em again, cuz
who remembers that Some Obscure Distro was based on a derivative
of Debian by way of Ubuntu via Mint? and then there's the ones
that jump ship, like LMDE.

My initial thought was to follow that which appeals to your sense of organization -- after all, your compilation!

As for the 'never find again' aspect, simply use a Find or Search
option? Start from near the top and have computer drill down and locate
for you.

Another option might be a 'Map' file. Might be a big spreadsheet -- use
an actual spreadsheet utility of just columns in a (landspace oriented)
text file. Thinking something like a listing of the filename,
derivation information, bits (16, 32, 64, etc.), possibly notes ("works
up to 386", "Died with Y2K").

Have you SEEN the family tree? it's... astonishing.... https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=family-tree

It looks just like the one in Chemistry classes!

The 'curvey' one at the bottom looked neat -- I did click to view and
the original was more legible; just couldn't expand sufficiently.

Trees somewhat separated out, and possibly more up to date: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_distributions

That chart I could expand. This site you might be able to copy some of
the information to save typing your own list.




¯ BarryMartin3@ ®
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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

> <snip>
> |-- !Unsorted
> | |-- 4MLinux-31.0-32bit.iso
> | |-- ALive-15.0.iso
> | |-- AVLinux-isotester-x64-2019.4.10.iso
> <etc., etc.,>
> Too many 'Unsorted', yes! <gg>
KM> Haha... yeah, the debate is whether I should sort 'em purely by
KM> distro, or make a tree hierarchy by family, which appeals to my
KM> sense of organization, but I'd never find half of 'em again, cuz
KM> who remembers that Some Obscure Distro was based on a derivative
KM> of Debian by way of Ubuntu via Mint? and then there's the ones
KM> that jump ship, like LMDE.

My initial thought was to follow that which appeals to your sense of organization -- after all, your compilation!

Yeah, and then I realized I'd run the pathnames out to a day's hike from
the prompt... and then what do you do with something like DebianDog (or
worse, DevuanDog) which is really Debian but lives in the Puppy ecosystem?

Bah. "Unsorted". :D

As for the 'never find again' aspect, simply use a Find or Search
option? Start from near the top and have computer drill down and locate
for you.

Oh, but when you can't remember what some obscure spin called itself...

This actually happened with ... I believe it was JULinux (Just Use
linux) or possibly a variant that remains unrediscovered... All I could remember is that the default wallpaper had Tux as Jesus. Which was
extremely funny but not enough to make the NAME stick in my head! That's
why the durn ISO is appended "Jesus linux". (Or should be. I need to
download another for my collection.)

Another option might be a 'Map' file. Might be a big spreadsheet -- use
an actual spreadsheet utility of just columns in a (landspace oriented)
text file. Thinking something like a listing of the filename,
derivation information, bits (16, 32, 64, etc.), possibly notes ("works
up to 386", "Died with Y2K").

I've tried a few of those antiquities... for the most part they give me
hives. Interesting conceptually, tho...

KM> Have you SEEN the family tree? it's... astonishing....

KM> https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=family-tree

It looks just like the one in Chemistry classes!

Funny, that...

The 'curvey' one at the bottom looked neat -- I did click to view and
the original was more legible; just couldn't expand sufficiently.

Turns out that one is more up to date...

===

So a couple of install adventures.... let's use Fireball, who has lots
of horsepower and nothing better to do, and some random blank HD...

Mageia would not run live. 40 minutes to install, and then ran not very
well. Lots of stuff does not work. They've made it worse. Stopped paying attention after about the third nonfunctional annoyance and made it go
away.

So there's finally a KDE-on-Debian that at least looks decent live.
Let's try that... if we can figure out the damn partitioner. Not sure
what took it so long but it didn't actually do anything; here's Mageia's
/home still intact (well, at least I didn't have to redo my KDE
settings), in part because it wouldn't let me change it. Two hours later
it's finally installed.... at first it was really sluggish; seems to
have gotten better. Letting it run updates, but I don't see anything to
induce me to switch. Only reason to not nuke it is that the installer is
a major PITA and I don't want to do it again, ever. Makes Windows
installs look simple.

PCLOS has spoiled me. Installs in 5 minutes flat (even with my 3GB of
added stuff) and a handful of clicks, nothing to configure and all works
OOTB.
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KY MOFFET wrote:

So there's finally a KDE-on-Debian that at least looks decent live.
Let's try that... if we can figure out the damn partitioner. Not sure
what took it so long but it didn't actually do anything; here's Mageia's /home still intact (well, at least I didn't have to redo my KDE
settings), in part because it wouldn't let me change it. Two hours later
it's finally installed.... at first it was really sluggish; seems to
have gotten better. Letting it run updates, but I don't see anything to induce me to switch. Only reason to not nuke it is that the installer is
a major PITA and I don't want to do it again, ever. Makes Windows
installs look simple.

Okay, I am done with anything directly based on Debian (ie. close enough descendant to use Debian's installer). This is the dumbest thing I've
ever seen. Q4OS is quite nice as a live system, using Trinity desktop.
But the current ISO would not run live so let's do a test install, what
the heck.

System: Xeon E1620v2 (same family as i7-4xxx), 64GB RAM. No slouch in
the performance department.

Do you want to answer questions or do a wholly automated install?
A: Automated. (We saw enough Ugly Debian Questions last night.)
Q: Do you want to nuke all your data?
A: There is no data, dummy. Yes, please.

Half an hour later:
Reboots, but takes so long at first I thought it was hung. Then:
Q: What is your password?
A: ****
A: ****
[Note that it did not ask for a username. I have no idea what it is.]
Q: Do you want to install just Trinity, or KDE too?
A: This was billed as a Trinity ISO, WTF. Geez, just Trinity.

Now downloading Trinity...
Seriously??

Half an hour later.... I am still watching it download body parts.
Trinity is not that big (a whole install ISO can be had for under
500mb). I see all kinds of crap going by that is not part of Trinity.

[As to the usual excuse that "downloading during install ensures that
you have the latest version" .... Debian uses a 3 year old kernel. Well,
in this case, no matter; Trinity also uses a 3 year old kernel.]

Finally it is done downloading. Now it is Unpacking.... approximately
10,000 downloaded files. This requires three steps per file: Preparing
to Unpack, Selecting Previously Unselected Package, and Unpacking.

Now it is variously Setting Up or Processing Triggers For each of these
10,000 downloaded files, which have become "Reading Database for 170,502
files already installed." (Yes, that was the actual number.)

Now it is apparently doing an update on Chrome, among other things.

Back to Unpacking.
Seriously??

Finally, 1 hour and 21 minutes later (I timed it) it is Finished!
[To be fair, a fast connection would trim the "Downloading" part.]
Click "Finish".

At last, the desktop!

With a ten year old version of Konqueror (last updated two years ago)
and a two year old version of LibreOffice. Why were we downloading as we installed, again?? Otherwise, a moderate selection of the Usual Stuff.

It croggles me that anyone could regard the above (and Trinity is one of
the smaller and simpler desktops), as an easier and more-efficient
install than Windows. And mind you this was the "automated" version.

Or in just FIVE MINUTES, using a single ISO and requiring no internet,
one can install PCLOS/TDE "Big Daddy" (which includes current versions
of all the not-too-obscure software that will run on Trinity).
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Hi Ky!

> <snip>
> |-- !Unsorted
> | |-- 4MLinux-31.0-32bit.iso
> | |-- ALive-15.0.iso
> | |-- AVLinux-isotester-x64-2019.4.10.iso
> <etc., etc.,>
> Too many 'Unsorted', yes! <gg>
KM> Haha... yeah, the debate is whether I should sort 'em purely by
KM> distro, or make a tree hierarchy by family, which appeals to my
KM> sense of organization, but I'd never find half of 'em again, cuz
KM> who remembers that Some Obscure Distro was based on a derivative
KM> of Debian by way of Ubuntu via Mint? and then there's the ones
KM> that jump ship, like LMDE.
My initial thought was to follow that which appeals to your sense of organization -- after all, your compilation!

Yeah, and then I realized I'd run the pathnames out to a day's
hike from the prompt... and then what do you do with something
like DebianDog (or worse, DevuanDog) which is really Debian but
lives in the Puppy ecosystem?

Ummm, multiple listings?

Bah. "Unsorted". :D

Sounds like the joke about the secretary who filed everything under "M"
for "Miscellaneous"! Actually as long as it can be found relatively
easily it doesn't matter where it is.

As for the 'never find again' aspect, simply use a Find or Search
option? Start from near the top and have computer drill down and locate
for you.

Oh, but when you can't remember what some obscure spin called
itself...

BTDT - sometimes with the titles of my own files!

This actually happened with ... I believe it was JULinux (Just
Use linux) or possibly a variant that remains unrediscovered...
All I could remember is that the default wallpaper had Tux as
Jesus. Which was extremely funny but not enough to make the NAME
stick in my head! That's why the durn ISO is appended "Jesus
linux". (Or should be. I need to download another for my
collection.)

Hence the spreadsheet-type form with the Notes column!

Another option might be a 'Map' file. Might be a big spreadsheet -- use
an actual spreadsheet utility of just columns in a (landspace oriented)
text file. Thinking something like a listing of the filename,
derivation information, bits (16, 32, 64, etc.), possibly notes ("works
up to 386", "Died with Y2K").

I've tried a few of those antiquities... for the most part they
give me hives. Interesting conceptually, tho...

I rarely use spreadsheets the utility but sometimes use the concept in a regular text editor. Guess it's more the concept of "everything is
organized in columns".

KM> Have you SEEN the family tree? it's... astonishing....

KM> https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=family-tree
It looks just like the one in Chemistry classes!

Funny, that...

Just another form of organization. ...Wonder if it could be classified
as a 'spreadsheet'?

The 'curvey' one at the bottom looked neat -- I did click to view and
the original was more legible; just couldn't expand sufficiently.

Turns out that one is more up to date...

It was definitely more detailed

===

Hmm: sort of a marker for a message break! Or maybe just a marker of
restart point.... <g>

So a couple of install adventures.... let's use Fireball, who has
lots of horsepower and nothing better to do, and some random
blank HD...
Mageia would not run live. 40 minutes to install, and then ran
not very well. Lots of stuff does not work. They've made it
worse. Stopped paying attention after about the third
nonfunctional annoyance and made it go away.

Yes, I sort of also go by the "if it doesn't install right it's not good
for me" when trying out software.

So there's finally a KDE-on-Debian that at least looks decent
live. Let's try that... if we can figure out the damn
partitioner. Not sure what took it so long but it didn't actually
do anything; here's Mageia's /home still intact (well, at least I
didn't have to redo my KDE settings), in part because it wouldn't
let me change it. Two hours later it's finally installed.... at
first it was really sluggish; seems to have gotten better.

Doing an automatic backup of some sort? Creating a journal?

Letting it run updates, but I don't see anything to induce me to
switch. Only reason to not nuke it is that the installer is a
major PITA and I don't want to do it again, ever. Makes Windows
installs look simple.

<snortle> The problem might be your slow data line. I have done a
couple of Raspbian creations and what used to take an hour with the 7
Mbps DSL now only takes (guesing) ten minutes with the fiber optic
service. Unfortunately you can't do much about the data rate they give
you but just thinking it's a possibility. Seems even during the
installation things are being checked/called to The Internet.

PCLOS has spoiled me. Installs in 5 minutes flat (even with my
3GB of added stuff) and a handful of clicks, nothing to configure
and all works OOTB.

That takes all the challenge out! <g>



¯ BarryMartin3@ ®
¯ @MyMetronet.NET ®

... Trench warfare should be a last ditch effort.
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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

> My initial thought was to follow that which appeals to your sense of
> organization -- after all, your compilation!
KM> Yeah, and then I realized I'd run the pathnames out to a day's
KM> hike from the prompt... and then what do you do with something
KM> like DebianDog (or worse, DevuanDog) which is really Debian but
KM> lives in the Puppy ecosystem?

Ummm, multiple listings?

Not unless I did symlinks on disk, which I don't want to do. The listing
is the actual directory structure. That's all it's for. I just find it
amusing how many I've collected, and which got more attention.

KM> Bah. "Unsorted". :D

Sounds like the joke about the secretary who filed everything under "M"
for "Miscellaneous"! Actually as long as it can be found relatively
easily it doesn't matter where it is.

True enough... fact is after I've tested most of 'em, they're discarded
from consideration and I never look at 'em again. So it doesn't really
matter, unless one tickles my Look Again Later circuit. Then I want to
FIND it! Or in one case, when one of our number on the PCLOS forum
wanted to see an obscure spin, I proved to have the last remaining copy
(now on archive.org).

> As for the 'never find again' aspect, simply use a Find or Search
> option? Start from near the top and have computer drill down and locate
> for you.
KM> Oh, but when you can't remember what some obscure spin called
KM> itself...

BTDT - sometimes with the titles of my own files!

I have dozens, perhaps hundreds of directories named Stuff... or
sometimes !Stuff... sometimes both....

KM> This actually happened with ... I believe it was JULinux (Just
KM> Use linux) or possibly a variant that remains unrediscovered...
KM> All I could remember is that the default wallpaper had Tux as
KM> Jesus. Which was extremely funny but not enough to make the NAME
KM> stick in my head! That's why the durn ISO is appended "Jesus
KM> linux". (Or should be. I need to download another for my
KM> collection.)

Hence the spreadsheet-type form with the Notes column!

I actually tried doing something like that when I did the first big
trawl looking for a distro to love... printed out a Wikipedia list with ancestors and last-update and whatever else was on the chart. Not sure
it accomplished anything but it did waste about 10 sheets of paper. :)

I rarely use spreadsheets the utility but sometimes use the concept in a regular text editor. Guess it's more the concept of "everything is
organized in columns".

Yeah, did a lot of columns and tables in WordPerfect for that kind of
thing... nowadays I mostly don't care. <g>

KM> ===

Hmm: sort of a marker for a message break! Or maybe just a marker of
restart point.... <g>

Yes! this is where I rebooted my brain!!

Yes, I sort of also go by the "if it doesn't install right it's not good
for me" when trying out software.

Yep... I'm past where I want to nursemaid stuff along. Either work
right, and don't make me get out the whip, or off you go.

KM> So there's finally a KDE-on-Debian that at least looks decent
KM> live. Let's try that... if we can figure out the damn
KM> partitioner. Not sure what took it so long but it didn't actually
KM> do anything; here's Mageia's /home still intact (well, at least I
KM> didn't have to redo my KDE settings), in part because it wouldn't
KM> let me change it. Two hours later it's finally installed.... at
KM> first it was really sluggish; seems to have gotten better.

Doing an automatic backup of some sort? Creating a journal?

Dunno... didn't see anything happening...

KM> Letting it run updates, but I don't see anything to induce me to
KM> switch. Only reason to not nuke it is that the installer is a
KM> major PITA and I don't want to do it again, ever. Makes Windows
KM> installs look simple.

<snortle> The problem might be your slow data line. I have done a

Actually, no. Even not counting that, it still took just over an hour.

Today's experiment is OpenSuSE/Gecko (Rolling) with KDE. It sensibly
does all the config stuff up front, so no halts in mid-stream that need attention, but so far it's taken two hours and is only to 91%, and far
as I can tell it's not downloading anything (even if it is, it should
have long since been done, with very little to do as this is a current
ISO, with no huge recent updates that I know of). "Removing one package"
-- what's that about??

Oh goodie, it's finally done! now let's see if it'll boot (live SuSE
fails about 2 times out of 3).... <tapping foot> Well, it finally got
past the splash screen, but now we have a blank monitor.... eventually I
lost patience and did C-A-D... now I have a mouse cursor... if it's
cooking an Nvidia driver in the background, it needs to show me that
(normally you can hit ESC and see what's going on)... shouldn't take
this long anyway...

...and I've typed everything in this message other than the above two paragraphs while waiting for it to find its brain, and it's still just a
blank screen and a mouse cursor (it must have loaded the desktop, cuz
that's a Plasma cursor). It's not locked up, but nothing is happening.
Ignores C-A-D, which normally if something is stuck will at least get
you a declaration that it's SENDING SigTerm and subsequent shutdown.

So punched the POWER OFF button, and now I have:
fireballgecko login:
(that's what I named it)
which does not take input. It is supposedly set to autologin.

And about the time I got done typing that, it decided to actually do a shutdown and power-off.

So it's rebooting, I'm watching the crawl... it got past login, but is
stuck at Started Locale Service. Ten minutes later, there's a mouse
cursor. Forced power down, repeat, this time it had to be fed login
creds, stuck at same place, and ten minutes later, a mouse cursor.

Well, it can sit there; I'll go out and do chores and see what it's
doing in an hour. And then I need that monitor to watch baseball. <g>

Lordy, do these people ever test their products outside of a VM?

couple of Raspbian creations and what used to take an hour with the 7
Mbps DSL now only takes (guesing) ten minutes with the fiber optic
service. Unfortunately you can't do much about the data rate they give
you but just thinking it's a possibility. Seems even during the
installation things are being checked/called to The Internet.

When I made the mistake of doing a netinstall with Debian (the real
thing, not a descendant), it took over four hours, I had to babysit it
the whole way, and when it was done it wouldn't boot. Not how you make
fans...

...but as noted above, that's only a little fraction of the time used.

KM> PCLOS has spoiled me. Installs in 5 minutes flat (even with my
KM> 3GB of added stuff) and a handful of clicks, nothing to configure
KM> and all works OOTB.

That takes all the challenge out! <g>

I'm tired of challenges; I want successes!

Seriously, one of the big reasons why in my stable of PCs, PCLOS has
been edging out Windows (never mind other linux distros), especially
newer Windows, is that the install is so fast and painless. If I need to
use a system for something else and can't be arsed to save the old
setup, I can have it back in five minutes. (Well, the last one I timed,
on an i7-3xxx: 4 minutes 20 seconds.) You can't even do a disk restore
that fast.

It's occurred to me that this might be a side effect of PCLOS being a one-man-band and wholly volunteer, so it only has one person's time to
waste, and Tex isn't real patient. Most distros are a bunch of people;
Debian is hundreds of people. Combine all that wasted time, and the end
user gets it all at once...

===

Chris did a quick review last year (2nd segment): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcmkw22jV4g

Install in approximately realtime:
https://youtu.be/xR6ty3cSekg?t=271
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KY MOFFET wrote:

[OpenSuSE/Gecko (Tumbleweed) test install]

So it's rebooting, I'm watching the crawl... it got past login, but is
stuck at Started Locale Service. Ten minutes later, there's a mouse
cursor. Forced power down, repeat, this time it had to be fed login
creds, stuck at same place, and ten minutes later, a mouse cursor.

Well, it can sit there; I'll go out and do chores and see what it's
doing in an hour. And then I need that monitor to watch baseball. <g>

About 20 minutes later it finally reached the desktop, but was so laggy
it was unusable. As in mouse click gets a response 2-3 minutes later, if
at all. System Settings produced Fatal Error, tho sort of ran (about
half there and didn't work at all).

Dropped the HD into another box just in case it was having hardware
issues, and same problem. I will note that PCLOS runs perfectly on
Fireball, so it's not a general doesn't-like-linux issue.

BTW as to updates causing lag... not on PCLOS!
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So there's finally a KDE-on-Debian that at least looks decent live.
Let's try that... if we can figure out the damn partitioner. Not sure

<snip can't-be-true-but-we-know-from-personal-experience-it-is stuff>

Or in just FIVE MINUTES, using a single ISO and requiring no
internet, one can install PCLOS/TDE "Big Daddy" (which includes
current versions of all the not-too-obscure software that will
run on Trinity).

You sure you're not using a hard drive with an analog clock as the
motor??! That's slow!

And I haven't quite figured out why when answerig 'yes' to the system
to download updates why one still has to either manually (update,
upgrade) or wait for the automated 'there are updates available' get
more.


¯ BarryMartin3@ ®
¯ @MyMetronet.NET ®

...
_ _
\__/
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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

> So there's finally a KDE-on-Debian that at least looks decent live.
> Let's try that... if we can figure out the damn partitioner. Not sure <snip can't-be-true-but-we-know-from-personal-experience-it-is stuff>


KM> Or in just FIVE MINUTES, using a single ISO and requiring no
KM> internet, one can install PCLOS/TDE "Big Daddy" (which includes
KM> current versions of all the not-too-obscure software that will
KM> run on Trinity).

You sure you're not using a hard drive with an analog clock as the
motor??! That's slow!

An hourglass woulda been faster.... hand cranking each byte mighta
been... REAL programmers do COPY CON OS.ISO ...

And I haven't quite figured out why when answerig 'yes' to the system
to download updates why one still has to either manually (update,
upgrade) or wait for the automated 'there are updates available' get
more.

I've noticed that too, commonly when there's an update notifier...
sometimes you gotta goose the main software installer before the updates happen. It's like one script gets stuck waiting for the other script.
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Hi Ky!

> My initial thought was to follow that which appeals to your sense of
> organization -- after all, your compilation!
KM> Yeah, and then I realized I'd run the pathnames out to a day's
KM> hike from the prompt... and then what do you do with something
KM> like DebianDog (or worse, DevuanDog) which is really Debian but
KM> lives in the Puppy ecosystem?
Ummm, multiple listings?

Not unless I did symlinks on disk, which I don't want to do. The
listing is the actual directory structure. That's all it's for. I
just find it amusing how many I've collected, and which got more attention.

Yes, didn't know there were so many variations out there!

As for the listing, I was thinking a separate file, not a tree output.

KM> Bah. "Unsorted". :D
Sounds like the joke about the secretary who filed everything under "M"
for "Miscellaneous"! Actually as long as it can be found relatively
easily it doesn't matter where it is.

True enough... fact is after I've tested most of 'em, they're
discarded from consideration and I never look at 'em again. So it
doesn't really matter, unless one tickles my Look Again Later
circuit. Then I want to FIND it! Or in one case, when one of our
number on the PCLOS forum wanted to see an obscure spin, I proved
to have the last remaining copy (now on archive.org).

Horray! Would have thought someone else to have had a copy, but suppose
easy enough to be lost when a computer dies, the person dies.....

> As for the 'never find again' aspect, simply use a Find or Search
> option? Start from near the top and have computer drill down and locate
> for you.
KM> Oh, but when you can't remember what some obscure spin called
KM> itself...
BTDT - sometimes with the titles of my own files!

I have dozens, perhaps hundreds of directories named Stuff... or
sometimes !Stuff... sometimes both....

I try to be a little more descriptive but doesn't always work. I do
have a few variations on 'temporary'!

KM> This actually happened with ... I believe it was JULinux (Just
KM> Use linux) or possibly a variant that remains unrediscovered...
KM> All I could remember is that the default wallpaper had Tux as
KM> Jesus. Which was extremely funny but not enough to make the NAME
KM> stick in my head! That's why the durn ISO is appended "Jesus
KM> linux". (Or should be. I need to download another for my
KM> collection.)
Hence the spreadsheet-type form with the Notes column!

I actually tried doing something like that when I did the first
big trawl looking for a distro to love... printed out a Wikipedia
list with ancestors and last-update and whatever else was on the
chart. Not sure it accomplished anything but it did waste about
10 sheets of paper. :)

The backs of which can be used for scratch paper!

I rarely use spreadsheets the utility but sometimes use the concept in a regular text editor. Guess it's more the concept of "everything is organized in columns".

Yeah, did a lot of columns and tables in WordPerfect for that
kind of thing... nowadays I mostly don't care. <g>

I sometimes create a sort-of spreadsheet to compare items for purchase:
helps determine which one is better (for my needs) as the listings don't
always have everything together much less in the same order.

KM> ===
Hmm: sort of a marker for a message break! Or maybe just a marker of restart point.... <g>

Yes! this is where I rebooted my brain!!

Things really got equalized!

Yes, I sort of also go by the "if it doesn't install right it's not good
for me" when trying out software.

Yep... I'm past where I want to nursemaid stuff along. Either
work right, and don't make me get out the whip, or off you go.

Right: I know there is going to be a learning curve, bu I don't want to
have to look at the manual every step. A quick quide is fine - it is
new, after all -- but "which button do I push to take a screenshot"
should be pretty self-explanatory.

KM> So there's finally a KDE-on-Debian that at least looks decent
KM> live. Let's try that... if we can figure out the damn
KM> partitioner. Not sure what took it so long but it didn't actually
KM> do anything; here's Mageia's /home still intact (well, at least I
KM> didn't have to redo my KDE settings), in part because it wouldn't
KM> let me change it. Two hours later it's finally installed.... at
KM> first it was really sluggish; seems to have gotten better.
Doing an automatic backup of some sort? Creating a journal?

Dunno... didn't see anything happening...

Happened to think of that option as my laptop will seem sluggish and
it's doing a backup. No real way to tell until it's done. Suppose
could look in System Monitor; otherwise just note the HDD LED is
flashing like mad.

KM> Letting it run updates, but I don't see anything to induce me to
KM> switch. Only reason to not nuke it is that the installer is a
KM> major PITA and I don't want to do it again, ever. Makes Windows
KM> installs look simple.
<snortle> The problem might be your slow data line. I have done a

Actually, no. Even not counting that, it still took just over an
hour.

So much for that excuse! ...No other guesses coming to mind. ...Noisy
line and have to resend data?

Today's experiment is OpenSuSE/Gecko (Rolling) with KDE. It
sensibly does all the config stuff up front, so no halts in
mid-stream that need attention, but so far it's taken two hours
and is only to 91%, and far as I can tell it's not downloading
anything (even if it is, it should have long since been done,
with very little to do as this is a current ISO, with no huge
recent updates that I know of). "Removing one package" -- what's
that about??

I remember having couple hour long update sessions but seems those were
with the older Raspberry Pi's, plus going from NOOBS to current, so tons
of little files to be updated. Using a current ISO can still have lots
of updates, even adding new (ISO provides a generic to get things going,
checks for, downloads and installs a specific file set).... As for
'removing one package', something old, something new, something borrowed
-- oh wait, that's not the right one!

Oh goodie, it's finally done! now let's see if it'll boot (live
SuSE fails about 2 times out of 3).... <tapping foot> Well, it
finally got past the splash screen, but now we have a blank
monitor.... eventually I lost patience and did C-A-D... now I
have a mouse cursor... if it's cooking an Nvidia driver in the
background, it needs to show me that (normally you can hit ESC
and see what's going on)... shouldn't take this long anyway...

Let's see: semi-random stuff coming to mind. I did have problems with installation when I had that bad RAM stick, so run the extended MEM86
test (it passed the quick/default option. There were times I actually
got into the Install steps (never would do direct install, always want
to the trial).

Is 'nomodeset' in the install options? Read somewhere that's now causing problems. May have been with a tiny resolution; do recall one of the suggested fixes I read about when I could get Ubuntu to install because
(of the faulty RAM) was to use nomodeset.

...and I've typed everything in this message other than the above
two paragraphs while waiting for it to find its brain, and it's
still just a blank screen and a mouse cursor (it must have loaded
the desktop, cuz that's a Plasma cursor). It's not locked up, but
nothing is happening. Ignores C-A-D, which normally if something
is stuck will at least get you a declaration that it's SENDING
SigTerm and subsequent shutdown.

So punched the POWER OFF button, and now I have:
fireballgecko login:
(that's what I named it)
which does not take input. It is supposedly set to autologin.

And about the time I got done typing that, it decided to actually
do a shutdown and power-off.

Some sort of 'saving last state'?

So it's rebooting, I'm watching the crawl... it got past login,
but is stuck at Started Locale Service. Ten minutes later,
there's a mouse cursor. Forced power down, repeat, this time it
had to be fed login creds, stuck at same place, and ten minutes
later, a mouse cursor.
Well, it can sit there; I'll go out and do chores and see what
it's doing in an hour. And then I need that monitor to watch
baseball. <g>

"Very annoying" is the mild form of what's coming to mind! Some
functions do take along time: there's a comment in an older MythTV
Installation Guide at a certain step to go away and get a cup of coffee
as the step took a very long time (and appears as if nothing is
occurring). ...When I was trying to use a 64 GB card with MotionEye it
took around ten minutes to complete the 'expanding partition' step (on
an RPi 3B+). That's the one that only like up to 32 GB -- same step
takes about a minute.

Lordy, do these people ever test their products outside of a VM?

"Oh, this utility is missing from the installer. I have it here, but
guess you need it there - sorry!"

couple of Raspbian creations and what used to take an hour with the 7
Mbps DSL now only takes (guesing) ten minutes with the fiber optic
service. Unfortunately you can't do much about the data rate they give
you but just thinking it's a possibility. Seems even during the installation things are being checked/called to The Internet.

When I made the mistake of doing a netinstall with Debian (the
real thing, not a descendant), it took over four hours, I had to
babysit it the whole way, and when it was done it wouldn't boot.
Not how you make fans...

Really. One thing to be a guinea pig and know there may be problems.
Quite another to be using a finished and supposedly tested product.
...Just thought: at the store the computers sometimes needed to have a
new install. Don't know what happened to cause but a desktop terminal
would fail and need the OS, etc., reinstalled. For whatever reason
would take sometimes _days_. We're not talking the computers running
the store, we're talking those standard units with maybe a 250 GB hard
drive. Sure the data is probably encoded and that takes a whole extra
five seconds to decode. Why it took so long, no idea. Just trying to
think why yours took so long. And yes, the installs frequently failed
at the store; we always thought because someone ignored the 'Do Not
Touch' sign (even when the keyboard was semi-hidden...).

KM> PCLOS has spoiled me. Installs in 5 minutes flat (even with my
KM> 3GB of added stuff) and a handful of clicks, nothing to configure
KM> and all works OOTB.
That takes all the challenge out! <g>

I'm tired of challenges; I want successes!

Yeahhh... <said in agreement>

Seriously, one of the big reasons why in my stable of PCs, PCLOS
has been edging out Windows (never mind other linux distros),
especially newer Windows, is that the install is so fast and
painless. If I need to use a system for something else and can't
be arsed to save the old setup, I can have it back in five
minutes. (Well, the last one I timed, on an i7-3xxx: 4 minutes 20 seconds.) You can't even do a disk restore that fast.
It's occurred to me that this might be a side effect of PCLOS
being a one-man-band and wholly volunteer, so it only has one
person's time to waste, and Tex isn't real patient. Most distros
are a bunch of people; Debian is hundreds of people. Combine all
that wasted time, and the end user gets it all at once...

I must say I admire those people creating the OSs, as well as various utilities, etc., etc. Lots of variables, even on 'minor' stuff like AMD
vs. Intel vs. ARM - and then put the various versions and options for
each of those into the mix. Then start adding various video cards,
various audio cards, ....



¯ BarryMartin3@ ®
¯ @MyMetronet.NET ®

... Picked up book called "Glue in Many Lands"; can't put it down.
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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

KM> listing is the actual directory structure. That's all it's for. I
KM> just find it amusing how many I've collected, and which got more
KM> attention.

Yes, didn't know there were so many variations out there!

Since I've been paying attention it's mushroomed, tho most fade away unremarked and unlamented.

There used to be a catalog of all the Puppy variants... over 2000!!

As for the listing, I was thinking a separate file, not a tree output.

Oh, but the Tree output tells me where it is on disk... occurs to me,
tho (this is your fault) that I could print out the Big Family Tree (how
much paper, again?) and mark the branches I've tried... nah, sounds like
work.

KM> circuit. Then I want to FIND it! Or in one case, when one of our
KM> number on the PCLOS forum wanted to see an obscure spin, I proved
KM> to have the last remaining copy (now on archive.org).

Horray! Would have thought someone else to have had a copy, but suppose
easy enough to be lost when a computer dies, the person dies.....

Or in this case, vanished from the various FTPs, probably cuz Tex (or
whoever does this for him) did one of his periodic trawls to get rid of outdated editions. Which I disagree with, see above.

In this case ... someone had done a nice implementation of Cinnamon on
PCLOS, and seemed like it would make a good regular spin... recommended
it to our Spin Doctor for updating, but then no one could find a copy
online.

KM> I have dozens, perhaps hundreds of directories named Stuff... or
KM> sometimes !Stuff... sometimes both....

I try to be a little more descriptive but doesn't always work. I do
have a few variations on 'temporary'!

That too!!

KM> I actually tried doing something like that when I did the first
KM> big trawl looking for a distro to love... printed out a Wikipedia
KM> list with ancestors and last-update and whatever else was on the
KM> chart. Not sure it accomplished anything but it did waste about
KM> 10 sheets of paper. :)

The backs of which can be used for scratch paper!

Too late, I printed it on scratch paper <g> (Wound up wishing I had more scribble space!)

KM> Yeah, did a lot of columns and tables in WordPerfect for that
KM> kind of thing... nowadays I mostly don't care. <g>

I sometimes create a sort-of spreadsheet to compare items for purchase:
helps determine which one is better (for my needs) as the listings don't always have everything together much less in the same order.

Good idea, tho I rarely buy anything that needs such close comparison.

KM> Yes! this is where I rebooted my brain!!

Things really got equalized!

BEEP BEEP

> KM> So there's finally a KDE-on-Debian that at least looks decent
> KM> live. Let's try that... if we can figure out the damn
> KM> partitioner. Not sure what took it so long but it didn't actually
> KM> do anything; here's Mageia's /home still intact (well, at least I
> KM> didn't have to redo my KDE settings), in part because it wouldn't
> KM> let me change it. Two hours later it's finally installed.... at
> KM> first it was really sluggish; seems to have gotten better.
> Doing an automatic backup of some sort? Creating a journal?
KM> Dunno... didn't see anything happening...

Happened to think of that option as my laptop will seem sluggish and
it's doing a backup. No real way to tell until it's done. Suppose
could look in System Monitor; otherwise just note the HDD LED is
flashing like mad.

In this case, no blinkenlights. No nothing. No idea what it was doing,
since I couldn't really see anything happening in the file manager, and
htop wasn't part of the default install. (Dunno what else might tell me
what's running and being a hog. But that's an awful lot of hardware to
be hogging.)

> <snortle> The problem might be your slow data line. I have done a
KM> Actually, no. Even not counting that, it still took just over an
KM> hour.

So much for that excuse! ...No other guesses coming to mind. ...Noisy
line and have to resend data?

Nope. Line is now clean, after CLink guy was here and messed with it. No
more stalls and back to previous speed.

KM> Today's experiment is OpenSuSE/Gecko (Rolling) with KDE. It
KM> sensibly does all the config stuff up front, so no halts in
KM> mid-stream that need attention, but so far it's taken two hours
KM> and is only to 91%, and far as I can tell it's not downloading

Also was not impinging on bandwidth on the other PC. Easy check.

KM> anything (even if it is, it should have long since been done,
KM> with very little to do as this is a current ISO, with no huge
KM> recent updates that I know of). "Removing one package" -- what's
KM> that about??

I remember having couple hour long update sessions but seems those were
with the older Raspberry Pi's, plus going from NOOBS to current, so tons
of little files to be updated. Using a current ISO can still have lots

Well, Rasbian IS based on Debian....

of updates, even adding new (ISO provides a generic to get things going, checks for, downloads and installs a specific file set).... As for
'removing one package', something old, something new, something borrowed
-- oh wait, that's not the right one!

I dunno, we're confused!

KM> Oh goodie, it's finally done! now let's see if it'll boot (live
KM> SuSE fails about 2 times out of 3).... <tapping foot> Well, it
KM> finally got past the splash screen, but now we have a blank
KM> monitor.... eventually I lost patience and did C-A-D... now I
KM> have a mouse cursor... if it's cooking an Nvidia driver in the
KM> background, it needs to show me that (normally you can hit ESC
KM> and see what's going on)... shouldn't take this long anyway...

Let's see: semi-random stuff coming to mind. I did have problems with installation when I had that bad RAM stick, so run the extended MEM86
test (it passed the quick/default option. There were times I actually
got into the Install steps (never would do direct install, always want
to the trial).

Nothing wrong with this hardware; it runs a dozen other OSs just fine.
Windows is a pretty good canary in the coal mine for bad hardware, and
it loves that PC. Also moved the install to an older and more generic
PC... no change.

Is 'nomodeset' in the install options? Read somewhere that's now causing problems. May have been with a tiny resolution; do recall one of the suggested fixes I read about when I could get Ubuntu to install because
(of the faulty RAM) was to use nomodeset.

No idea... resolution looked normal. If an installer sets something
dopey, tho... probably breaks other stuff. Out with you!

KM> And about the time I got done typing that, it decided to actually
KM> do a shutdown and power-off.

Some sort of 'saving last state'?

Shouldn't be, wasn't live, and when live I never use persistence.

KM> Well, it can sit there; I'll go out and do chores and see what
KM> it's doing in an hour. And then I need that monitor to watch
KM> baseball. <g>

"Very annoying" is the mild form of what's coming to mind! Some

Really!!!

functions do take along time: there's a comment in an older MythTV Installation Guide at a certain step to go away and get a cup of coffee
as the step took a very long time (and appears as if nothing is
occurring). ...When I was trying to use a 64 GB card with MotionEye it
took around ten minutes to complete the 'expanding partition' step (on
an RPi 3B+). That's the one that only like up to 32 GB -- same step
takes about a minute.

Only thing I can think might be similar -- having trouble with 64GB RAM. However... the Red Hat family (broadly including the Mandrake cousins)
has no problem with it, and that should be a kernel function anyway, and
it's not like the kernel is that different from one version to the next
... and a given kernel is the same across distros. And if Debian with
its 3 year old kernel has no trouble with 64GB, then no distro using a
newer kernel (everyone else) should either.

KM> Lordy, do these people ever test their products outside of a VM?

"Oh, this utility is missing from the installer. I have it here, but
guess you need it there - sorry!"

Seen that!

KM> When I made the mistake of doing a netinstall with Debian (the
KM> real thing, not a descendant), it took over four hours, I had to
KM> babysit it the whole way, and when it was done it wouldn't boot.
KM> Not how you make fans...

Really. One thing to be a guinea pig and know there may be problems.
Quite another to be using a finished and supposedly tested product.

Exactly...

..Just thought: at the store the computers sometimes needed to have a
new install. Don't know what happened to cause but a desktop terminal
would fail and need the OS, etc., reinstalled. For whatever reason
would take sometimes _days_. We're not talking the computers running
the store, we're talking those standard units with maybe a 250 GB hard
drive. Sure the data is probably encoded and that takes a whole extra
five seconds to decode. Why it took so long, no idea. Just trying to

This woulda been imaging Windows? If so... if it hits a bad spot in the
disk, it probably tests the whole disk as it writes. Very slow. In the
Really Olden Days, almost all HDs had some bad spots out of the box. (In
fact I remember when MFM disks came with a Bad Blocks Map.)

But on the same hardware, install of PCLOS under 5 minutes, Fedora under
6 minutes. Completely different installers... but both Red Hat
descendants (PCLOS by way of Mandrake/Mandriva) which is probably the significant point.

I suppose I should try Kubuntu and see what it does, given Ubuntu is
based on Debian. (At least that lets me land on my preferred desktop,
tho their implementation of KDE is not great.) Mint hies from Ubuntu,
but dumps about 3/4ths of Ubuntu and in previous tests installed fairly
fast.

think why yours took so long. And yes, the installs frequently failed
at the store; we always thought because someone ignored the 'Do Not
Touch' sign (even when the keyboard was semi-hidden...).

Whoops!!

KM> It's occurred to me that this might be a side effect of PCLOS
KM> being a one-man-band and wholly volunteer, so it only has one
KM> person's time to waste, and Tex isn't real patient. Most distros
KM> are a bunch of people; Debian is hundreds of people. Combine all
KM> that wasted time, and the end user gets it all at once...

I must say I admire those people creating the OSs, as well as various utilities, etc., etc. Lots of variables, even on 'minor' stuff like AMD
vs. Intel vs. ARM - and then put the various versions and options for
each of those into the mix. Then start adding various video cards,
various audio cards, ....

Yeah, to deal with all that you need a stable of programmers... at the
distro level, tho, it's really just putting it all together with a
script; all the real programming has already been done, especially at
the hardware level (drivers etc.)

In fact OpenSuSE used to have an automated online "factory" where you
could specify whatever you wanted (built on OpenSuSE, but with a wide
choice of desktops and features) and it would spit out a custom distro
ISO for your personal entertainment. I had it build a version with
Trinity desktop, tho it didn't turn out as well as Trinity on PCLOS. But still, shows at that level it's just scripts.

.. Picked up book called "Glue in Many Lands"; can't put it down.

Sticky situation!
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Hi Ky!

KM> Or in just FIVE MINUTES, using a single ISO and requiring no
KM> internet, one can install PCLOS/TDE "Big Daddy" (which includes
KM> current versions of all the not-too-obscure software that will
KM> run on Trinity).
You sure you're not using a hard drive with an analog clock as the
motor??! That's slow!

An hourglass woulda been faster.... hand cranking each byte
mighta been... REAL programmers do COPY CON OS.ISO ...

<snortle> Yeah, I've had some real slow transfers....

And I haven't quite figured out why when answerig 'yes' to the system
to download updates why one still has to either manually (update,
upgrade) or wait for the automated 'there are updates available' get
more.

I've noticed that too, commonly when there's an update
notifier... sometimes you gotta goose the main software installer
before the updates happen. It's like one script gets stuck
waiting for the other script.

"Allow me!" "No, allow me!" "No, allow me!".... Your guess sounds about
right: maybe something has to be seeded to get started.



¯ BarryMartin3@ ®
¯ @MyMetronet.NET ®

... A mosh pit is the seed of a mosh fruit. True____False____
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Hi Ky!

Yes, didn't know there were so many variations out there!

Since I've been paying attention it's mushroomed, tho most fade
away unremarked and unlamented.

Yes, I suppose rather easy as modify to my preferences, I think it's the
latest and greatest so publish. A few people, mostly relatives and
friends trying to be supportive try it but otherwise doesn't take off,

There used to be a catalog of all the Puppy variants... over
2000!!

That number seems like more than the number of actual dog breeds!

As for the listing, I was thinking a separate file, not a tree output.

Oh, but the Tree output tells me where it is on disk... occurs to
me, tho (this is your fault) that I could print out the Big
Family Tree (how much paper, again?) and mark the branches I've
tried... nah, sounds like work.

If you use a teen-tiny you should get it to fit on a single sheet!

As for marking, maybe could still do it on computer: create a file with
a name forcing it to the top/beginning of the tree branch list. I've
used "aa_" if I want a force a file's location. Thinking of the
Recipes subdir I have (and honestly intended to use!):

/home/barry/File Cabinet/Recipes/
|-- aa_Cooking Tips
|-- aa_Food Timeline
| |-- Food Timeline: food history research service_files
|
|-- aa_Substitutions - Ingredient
|-- aa_Unit Conversions
|-- Appetizers
|-- BBQ
| |--Sauce

Prefacing the 'aa_' forces the Cooking Tips subdir towards the top.
You'll have to test how it works with numbers, if any listing has
numbers, or even non alphanumeric characters

KM> circuit. Then I want to FIND it! Or in one case, when one of our
KM> number on the PCLOS forum wanted to see an obscure spin, I proved
KM> to have the last remaining copy (now on archive.org).
Horray! Would have thought someone else to have had a copy, but suppose easy enough to be lost when a computer dies, the person dies.....

Or in this case, vanished from the various FTPs, probably cuz Tex
(or whoever does this for him) did one of his periodic trawls to
get rid of outdated editions. Which I disagree with, see above.

In the old days storage space was at a premium so the culling sort of
made sense. Now, not so much, so just move to that Old Stuff directory.

In this case ... someone had done a nice implementation of
Cinnamon on PCLOS, and seemed like it would make a good regular
spin... recommended it to our Spin Doctor for updating, but then
no one could find a copy online.

Darn misspellings! (Y'mean it's not 'Sinahmum'?)

KM> I have dozens, perhaps hundreds of directories named Stuff... or
KM> sometimes !Stuff... sometimes both....
I try to be a little more descriptive but doesn't always work. I do
have a few variations on 'temporary'!

That too!!

Let's see:

Temporary
|-- A lot of Stuff
|-- More stuff
|-- Other stuff


Oo! Linux is case-sensitive!!

Temporary
|-- a lot of stuff
|-- a lot of Stuff
|-- more stuff
|-- More stuff
|-- More Stuff

KM> I actually tried doing something like that when I did the first
KM> big trawl looking for a distro to love... printed out a Wikipedia
KM> list with ancestors and last-update and whatever else was on the
KM> chart. Not sure it accomplished anything but it did waste about
KM> 10 sheets of paper. :)
The backs of which can be used for scratch paper!

Too late, I printed it on scratch paper <g> (Wound up wishing I
had more scribble space!)

Scotch tape pieces of smaller scratch paper to the original large sheet
of scratch paper! (Back in my college days, way before home computers
were common, I did a term paper, editing with the literal cut and paste:
the draft was very lumpy.)

KM> Yeah, did a lot of columns and tables in WordPerfect for that
KM> kind of thing... nowadays I mostly don't care. <g>
I sometimes create a sort-of spreadsheet to compare items for purchase: helps determine which one is better (for my needs) as the listings don't always have everything together much less in the same order.

Good idea, tho I rarely buy anything that needs such close
comparison.

My usage isn't so much comparison as it is to figure out. I guess more
to organize notes. This one comes with <_A_>, this other one comes with
<_B_> which is like <_A_> but with <_c_> added.

KM> Yes! this is where I rebooted my brain!!
Things really got equalized!

BEEP BEEP

You're either backing up or if you're AMI havign a memory parity check
error!

> KM> So there's finally a KDE-on-Debian that at least looks decent
> KM> live. Let's try that... if we can figure out the damn
> KM> partitioner. Not sure what took it so long but it didn't actually
> KM> do anything; here's Mageia's /home still intact (well, at least I
> KM> didn't have to redo my KDE settings), in part because it wouldn't
> KM> let me change it. Two hours later it's finally installed.... at
> KM> first it was really sluggish; seems to have gotten better.
> Doing an automatic backup of some sort? Creating a journal?
KM> Dunno... didn't see anything happening...
Happened to think of that option as my laptop will seem sluggish and
it's doing a backup. No real way to tell until it's done. Suppose
could look in System Monitor; otherwise just note the HDD LED is
flashing like mad.

In this case, no blinkenlights. No nothing. No idea what it was
doing, since I couldn't really see anything happening in the file
manager, and htop wasn't part of the default install. (Dunno what
else might tell me what's running and being a hog. But that's an
awful lot of hardware to be hogging.)

Maybe it's being sneaky and you're catching it only when it's thinking,
so no read-write activity.

> <snortle> The problem might be your slow data line. I have done a
KM> Actually, no. Even not counting that, it still took just over an
KM> hour.
So much for that excuse! ...No other guesses coming to mind. ...Noisy line and have to resend data?

Nope. Line is now clean, after CLink guy was here and messed with
it. No more stalls and back to previous speed.

Well that's good.

KM> Today's experiment is OpenSuSE/Gecko (Rolling) with KDE. It
KM> sensibly does all the config stuff up front, so no halts in
KM> mid-stream that need attention, but so far it's taken two hours
KM> and is only to 91%, and far as I can tell it's not downloading

Also was not impinging on bandwidth on the other PC. Easy check.

KM> anything (even if it is, it should have long since been done,
KM> with very little to do as this is a current ISO, with no huge
KM> recent updates that I know of). "Removing one package" -- what's
KM> that about??
I remember having couple hour long update sessions but seems those were
with the older Raspberry Pi's, plus going from NOOBS to current, so tons
of little files to be updated. Using a current ISO can still have lots

Well, Rasbian IS based on Debian....

True...

of updates, even adding new (ISO provides a generic to get things going, checks for, downloads and installs a specific file set).... As for 'removing one package', something old, something new, something borrowed
-- oh wait, that's not the right one!

I dunno, we're confused!

Back a couple years ago I noticed it seemed when LibreOffice and Mozilla
stuff was being updated they actually downloaded the entire version
rathet than just the new files. Possibly everything as changed, though
more likely to ensure no old files to screw up the works.

KM> Oh goodie, it's finally done! now let's see if it'll boot (live
KM> SuSE fails about 2 times out of 3).... <tapping foot> Well, it
KM> finally got past the splash screen, but now we have a blank
KM> monitor.... eventually I lost patience and did C-A-D... now I
KM> have a mouse cursor... if it's cooking an Nvidia driver in the
KM> background, it needs to show me that (normally you can hit ESC
KM> and see what's going on)... shouldn't take this long anyway...
Let's see: semi-random stuff coming to mind. I did have problems with installation when I had that bad RAM stick, so run the extended MEM86
test (it passed the quick/default option. There were times I actually
got into the Install steps (never would do direct install, always want
to the trial).

Nothing wrong with this hardware; it runs a dozen other OSs just
fine. Windows is a pretty good canary in the coal mine for bad
hardware, and it loves that PC. Also moved the install to an
older and more generic PC... no change.

Some sort of sneaky incompatibility. ...You got "ARM" instead of "AMD".
It's 64-bit instead of 32-bit (should have a warning message).

Is 'nomodeset' in the install options? Read somewhere that's now causing problems. May have been with a tiny resolution; do recall one of the suggested fixes I read about when I could get Ubuntu to install because
(of the faulty RAM) was to use nomodeset.

No idea... resolution looked normal. If an installer sets
something dopey, tho... probably breaks other stuff. Out with
you!

nomodeset came to mind because when I was having troubles with the installation due to the faulty RAM it came up numerous times as a
potential work-around; a few days ago in the MythTV Forum with nVidia
drivers.

KM> And about the time I got done typing that, it decided to actually
KM> do a shutdown and power-off.
Some sort of 'saving last state'?

Shouldn't be, wasn't live, and when live I never use persistence.

I'm thinking "returning stuff to the original state" but it seems like
nothing should be modified other than possibly a small workspace.

functions do take along time: there's a comment in an older MythTV Installation Guide at a certain step to go away and get a cup of coffee
as the step took a very long time (and appears as if nothing is
occurring). ...When I was trying to use a 64 GB card with MotionEye it
took around ten minutes to complete the 'expanding partition' step (on
an RPi 3B+). That's the one that only like up to 32 GB -- same step
takes about a minute.

Only thing I can think might be similar -- having trouble with
64GB RAM. However... the Red Hat family (broadly including the
Mandrake cousins) has no problem with it, and that should be a
kernel function anyway, and it's not like the kernel is that
different from one version to the next ... and a given kernel is
the same across distros. And if Debian with its 3 year old kernel
has no trouble with 64GB, then no distro using a newer kernel
(everyone else) should either.

Vague stuff coming up. With MotionEye there are two main versions: MotionEyeOS and MotionEye -- the first is more or less a self-entity and
what I'm using here. The second is a utility, added on to an OS like Raspbian. I tried the utility a year or two back and didn't have any
luck so went back to the OS version. So by using the MotionEyeOS
version there could be some old code not working properly past 32GB.
OTOH it seems to work fine for some people - maybe I'm missing a command switch?

KM> Lordy, do these people ever test their products outside of a VM?
"Oh, this utility is missing from the installer. I have it here, but
guess you need it there - sorry!"

Seen that!

Easy enough to do: install some option for another project, it's still installed for the new project so "not needed to be downloaded".

KM> When I made the mistake of doing a netinstall with Debian (the
KM> real thing, not a descendant), it took over four hours, I had to
KM> babysit it the whole way, and when it was done it wouldn't boot.
KM> Not how you make fans...
Really. One thing to be a guinea pig and know there may be problems.
Quite another to be using a finished and supposedly tested product.

Exactly...

I was more or less a guinea pig two Springs ago when I needed to move my
MythTV recordings from the old Backend to the new. Did come across a
couple "oh yeah, you need to d/l this utility" and missing "end command" characters -- the semicolon comes to mind.

..Just thought: at the store the computers sometimes needed to have a
new install. Don't know what happened to cause but a desktop terminal
would fail and need the OS, etc., reinstalled. For whatever reason
would take sometimes _days_. We're not talking the computers running
the store, we're talking those standard units with maybe a 250 GB hard drive. Sure the data is probably encoded and that takes a whole extra
five seconds to decode. Why it took so long, no idea. Just trying to

This woulda been imaging Windows? If so... if it hits a bad spot
in the disk, it probably tests the whole disk as it writes. Very
slow. In the Really Olden Days, almost all HDs had some bad spots
out of the box. (In fact I remember when MFM disks came with a
Bad Blocks Map.)

Possibly. Admittedly I was curious to learn but usually the person
doing the process didn't know more than reading the instructions.

But on the same hardware, install of PCLOS under 5 minutes,
Fedora under 6 minutes. Completely different installers... but
both Red Hat descendants (PCLOS by way of Mandrake/Mandriva)
which is probably the significant point.
I suppose I should try Kubuntu and see what it does, given Ubuntu
is based on Debian. (At least that lets me land on my preferred
desktop, tho their implementation of KDE is not great.) Mint hies
from Ubuntu, but dumps about 3/4ths of Ubuntu and in previous
tests installed fairly fast.

FWIW Ubuntu has a bare-bones option. I think the ISO is the same, just
select a 'minimal' option instead of 'full'. I've not tried it even
though on some computers which are essentially dedicated Frontends (to
MythTV) it could make sense. Invariably I'd eventually need whatever
was missing.

KM> It's occurred to me that this might be a side effect of PCLOS
KM> being a one-man-band and wholly volunteer, so it only has one
KM> person's time to waste, and Tex isn't real patient. Most distros
KM> are a bunch of people; Debian is hundreds of people. Combine all
KM> that wasted time, and the end user gets it all at once...
I must say I admire those people creating the OSs, as well as various utilities, etc., etc. Lots of variables, even on 'minor' stuff like AMD
vs. Intel vs. ARM - and then put the various versions and options for
each of those into the mix. Then start adding various video cards,
various audio cards, ....

Yeah, to deal with all that you need a stable of programmers...
at the distro level, tho, it's really just putting it all
together with a script; all the real programming has already been
done, especially at the hardware level (drivers etc.)
In fact OpenSuSE used to have an automated online "factory" where
you could specify whatever you wanted (built on OpenSuSE, but
with a wide choice of desktops and features) and it would spit
out a custom distro ISO for your personal entertainment. I had it
build a version with Trinity desktop, tho it didn't turn out as
well as Trinity on PCLOS. But still, shows at that level it's
just scripts.

My guess is it's similar to a OEM installation: created specifically for
(say) HP and they only use certain AMD or Intel CPUs, so don't have to
include (nor test for) all the others. Same for the video card and
probably a bunch of other motherboard variables. (Remember my level of understanding isn't nearly as in-depth as yours on this stuff! My
'Black Boxes' are giant!)

.. Picked up book called "Glue in Many Lands"; can't put it down.

Sticky situation!

I am rather attached!


¯ BarryMartin3@ ®
¯ @MyMetronet.NET ®

... Famous Last Words: Everything seems to be working fine now.
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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

> Yes, didn't know there were so many variations out there!
KM> Since I've been paying attention it's mushroomed, tho most fade
KM> away unremarked and unlamented.

Yes, I suppose rather easy as modify to my preferences, I think it's the latest and greatest so publish. A few people, mostly relatives and
friends trying to be supportive try it but otherwise doesn't take off,

Or the maintainer and his immediate cronies. I'd feel more secure if my preferred distro was more than a one-man-band, because that's a single
point of potential disaster; OTOH everything is very stable because Tex doesn't change things up much. No sudden corporate 180s.

KM> There used to be a catalog of all the Puppy variants... over
KM> 2000!!

That number seems like more than the number of actual dog breeds!

Which would be about 300, depending how you count 'em.

My fave is MintPup, tho technically it's a DebianDog spin; unfortunately
not maintained. I sometimes use Wary as an old-hardware boot disk.

> As for the listing, I was thinking a separate file, not a tree output.
KM> Oh, but the Tree output tells me where it is on disk... occurs to
KM> me, tho (this is your fault) that I could print out the Big
KM> Family Tree (how much paper, again?) and mark the branches I've
KM> tried... nah, sounds like work.

If you use a teen-tiny you should get it to fit on a single sheet!

If I used little teeny print I'd need little teeny eyes to read it...

https://people.well.com/user/bubbles/LilTEyes.txt

As for marking, maybe could still do it on computer: create a file with
a name forcing it to the top/beginning of the tree branch list. I've
used "aa_" if I want a force a file's location. Thinking of the
Recipes subdir I have (and honestly intended to use!):

At least on Windows you can use ! or !! or !!! to force a front sort.
This does not work on linux, which ignores the leading ! mark.

/home/barry/File Cabinet/Recipes/
|-- aa_Cooking Tips
|-- aa_Food Timeline
| |-- Food Timeline: food history research service_files

Food timeline, fish: Fresh, Stale, and Stinking in 3 days. <g>

Prefacing the 'aa_' forces the Cooking Tips subdir towards the top.
You'll have to test how it works with numbers, if any listing has
numbers, or even non alphanumeric characters

I've done the opposite -- prefix with zzz_ to force it to the end.

KM> Or in this case, vanished from the various FTPs, probably cuz Tex
KM> (or whoever does this for him) did one of his periodic trawls to
KM> get rid of outdated editions. Which I disagree with, see above.

In the old days storage space was at a premium so the culling sort of
made sense. Now, not so much, so just move to that Old Stuff directory.

Yeah... that's why it irks me so much that Microsoft nuked all the old
support files. They've done this twice now, apparently under the theory
that this would force people to upgrade. No, it just annoys us... when
they announced that they were killing the pre-XP files, I pulled all of
'em, and it was only 8GB. They didn't announce it when they killed most
of the XP support files. :/

KM> In this case ... someone had done a nice implementation of
KM> Cinnamon on PCLOS, and seemed like it would make a good regular
KM> spin... recommended it to our Spin Doctor for updating, but then
KM> no one could find a copy online.

Darn misspellings! (Y'mean it's not 'Sinahmum'?)

Haha... I found it somewhere weird but the archive later disappeared.

> KM> I have dozens, perhaps hundreds of directories named Stuff... or
> KM> sometimes !Stuff... sometimes both....
> I try to be a little more descriptive but doesn't always work. I do
> have a few variations on 'temporary'!
KM> That too!!

Let's see:

Temporary
|-- A lot of Stuff
|-- More stuff
|-- Other stuff

That!

Oo! Linux is case-sensitive!!

Temporary
|-- a lot of stuff
|-- a lot of Stuff
|-- more stuff
|-- More stuff
|-- More Stuff

OMFG... yeah, that!!

Tho I try to avoid the case-sensitive thing because do not wish to make
a mess when interacting with Windows. (Win10 is also case-sensitive.)

> The backs of which can be used for scratch paper!
KM> Too late, I printed it on scratch paper <g> (Wound up wishing I
KM> had more scribble space!)

Scotch tape pieces of smaller scratch paper to the original large sheet
of scratch paper! (Back in my college days, way before home computers
were common, I did a term paper, editing with the literal cut and paste:
the draft was very lumpy.)

Oh yeah, been there, done that... whilst constructing first novel from
56 originally-unrelated scenes in the era of typewriter.

> KM> Yes! this is where I rebooted my brain!!
> Things really got equalized!
KM> BEEP BEEP

You're either backing up or if you're AMI havign a memory parity check
error!

That would explain much. <g>

Back a couple years ago I noticed it seemed when LibreOffice and Mozilla stuff was being updated they actually downloaded the entire version
rathet than just the new files. Possibly everything as changed, though
more likely to ensure no old files to screw up the works.

Partly because integrity checks get upset when body parts don't match.

KM> Nothing wrong with this hardware; it runs a dozen other OSs just
KM> fine. Windows is a pretty good canary in the coal mine for bad
KM> hardware, and it loves that PC. Also moved the install to an
KM> older and more generic PC... no change.

Some sort of sneaky incompatibility. ...You got "ARM" instead of "AMD".
It's 64-bit instead of 32-bit (should have a warning message).

LOL, yes, I've suddenly downgraded to ARM <g>

nomodeset came to mind because when I was having troubles with the installation due to the faulty RAM it came up numerous times as a
potential work-around; a few days ago in the MythTV Forum with nVidia drivers.

Oh. Fortunately not my problem. <g>

KM> Only thing I can think might be similar -- having trouble with
KM> 64GB RAM. However... the Red Hat family (broadly including the
KM> Mandrake cousins) has no problem with it, and that should be a
KM> kernel function anyway, and it's not like the kernel is that
KM> different from one version to the next ... and a given kernel is
KM> the same across distros. And if Debian with its 3 year old kernel
KM> has no trouble with 64GB, then no distro using a newer kernel
KM> (everyone else) should either.

Vague stuff coming up. With MotionEye there are two main versions: MotionEyeOS and MotionEye -- the first is more or less a self-entity and
what I'm using here. The second is a utility, added on to an OS like Raspbian. I tried the utility a year or two back and didn't have any

Raspbian is still 32bit, IIRC.

luck so went back to the OS version. So by using the MotionEyeOS
version there could be some old code not working properly past 32GB.

Which might be explained by the above.

OTOH it seems to work fine for some people - maybe I'm missing a command switch?

Wait for next generation hardware. <g>

FWIW Ubuntu has a bare-bones option. I think the ISO is the same, just select a 'minimal' option instead of 'full'. I've not tried it even
though on some computers which are essentially dedicated Frontends (to MythTV) it could make sense. Invariably I'd eventually need whatever
was missing.

Yeah, most of 'em do. In my experience they're not just barebones, but
also lots of everyday stuff doesn't quite work. Inability to configure
the desktop is no worry for a server, but annoying for a workstation.
Another reason I don't bother looking at barebones distros, unless
that's all there is.

KM> Yeah, to deal with all that you need a stable of programmers...
KM> at the distro level, tho, it's really just putting it all
KM> together with a script; all the real programming has already been
KM> done, especially at the hardware level (drivers etc.)
KM> In fact OpenSuSE used to have an automated online "factory" where
KM> you could specify whatever you wanted (built on OpenSuSE, but
KM> with a wide choice of desktops and features) and it would spit
KM> out a custom distro ISO for your personal entertainment. I had it
KM> build a version with Trinity desktop, tho it didn't turn out as
KM> well as Trinity on PCLOS. But still, shows at that level it's
KM> just scripts.

My guess is it's similar to a OEM installation: created specifically for (say) HP and they only use certain AMD or Intel CPUs, so don't have to include (nor test for) all the others. Same for the video card and
probably a bunch of other motherboard variables. (Remember my level of understanding isn't nearly as in-depth as yours on this stuff! My
'Black Boxes' are giant!)

Occurred to me that why Debian's installer is so freakin' slow might be because it's still doing a lot of building from source AS it installs (I gather Slackware and Gentoo still do this for the whole install). Just guessing but can't think of anything else that would take so durn long.

Which in this day and age is just insane. Yeah, you get an end result precisely tailored, but at the cost of a lot more time and bother,
especially when 99% of installs want to wind up with the ordinary
generic one-size-fits-all binary, so why individually build it?

> .. Picked up book called "Glue in Many Lands"; can't put it down.
KM> Sticky situation!

I am rather attached!

To what??

.. Famous Last Words: Everything seems to be working fine now.

Barry's USB. <g>
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