BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

> > > > Sure; remember when you had amnesia?!
> > > KM> Is that what I forgot??
> > > We don't recall now...
> > KM> Wait, now we both have amnesia?
> > Maybe - what do we compare it to?
> KM> Why are you asking *me*??!
> You were handy. :)
KM> But I'm way over here!
Physically -- who knows where your mind is!!

It should be right here... somewhere...

Played a bit with a thumbrive last night: no lockups and no voltage spikes/dips ... caught! One second is an awfully long time! Don't know
if can change the time to less than a second, plus need to log. Will continue fiddling with that later.

Most of these things take times in milliseconds...??

KM> Sounds like it, actually. Similar problems reported across about
KM> a ten year span (went I went looking, found it was a
KM> broadly-distributed complaint).

Hmmm: one would think after that length of time.... Could see if was
like the bad filter cap issue.

So... have you popped the lid and looked for bad capacitors? When I did
so, they were so obvious you couldn't miss 'em... had boiled up what
looked like a rod sticking out of 'em! Yes, my computer threw a rod.

KM> First Asus-vs-USB I've any experience of was in Double Vision, an
KM> Asus A8N-SLI (2006; AMD socket939). Supposedly USB2, but during
KM> boot it can only do USB1. Eventually USB stopped working
KM> entirely.

And then the whole board stopped working.. initially by refusing to run Windows. Then by refusing to run anything. Well, it's not like Double
Vision wasn't already retired; wouldn't have known if I hadn't taken a
notion to test something with it. Tarnish now occupies that case.

(Thinking numerous semi-random options, trouble is I don't know enough
on how the electronics works. Up until a day or two ago it sounded like
a good work-around to stick in a PCI(e) USB card to bypass.)

Many things sound better before you know... <g>

KM> That's the one with the Athlon 64 3200+ 2.2GHz ... supposedly a
KM> 64bit CPU, but has AMD's not-true-64bit bug. (At least they're
KM> consistent; I remember when the K6-2 had a not-true-32bit bug.
KM> Known issue and they shipped 'em anyway.) Having got the
KM> attention of the retro-gaming crowd, Socket939 CPUs are still
KM> quite expensive to upgrade, so since this system was rapidly
KM> superceded by newer and better, I never did... and just as well,
KM> because guess what -- it's recently blown several capacitors.
KM> Anyone care to guess whether they're associated with the
KM> southbridge chip??

Oo! Oo! Oo! Pick me! Pick meeee! <waving hand wildly>

Barry, can you tell us the answer? :D

KM> Ya know, there might be a reason why I kinda prefer MSI boards...
KM> beyond their feature set. But weren't any in the price range at
KM> the time... and Silver's new board at least was from the higher
KM> end of things... well, hopefully it'll be lucky, and outlast its
KM> poor relations.

With the USB issue part of me is thinking 'dump the Asus board' on this computer and then the Scottish Guy in me says the board is perfectly
good except for that Southbridge issue. Worthwhile as an NAS? Seems to

Well, that's what happened with Tarnish -- USB no workee, and it also
refuses to boot with more than 4GB RAM (normal max capacity 8GB, but at
a guess that much overloads the bogus circuit) but it's perfectly fine
with PCLOS as a media streamer that never sees USB nor serious work.

I do note that everything loads slower than the same hardware with 8GB
RAM, but once loaded you can't really tell, given all it does is stream baseball. Or sometimes run ReactOS, which can scrape by on 128mb RAM and doesn't like over 4GB anyway.

be fine as long as don't touch USB, and even then if plug in a USB
device and it does lock up seems to be fine on reboot (the USB device
is connected at boot). OTOH talk abouit overkill: eight core CPU. And

Eight core or four cores with hyperthreading?? AMD got in trouble for 'confusing' the two in its marketing...

could swap for a single core but AMD and the new mothboard would want
Intel.

Yeah, not worth messing with. Also, single-core AMDs are painfully slow
with today's OSs. In fact were painfully slow with antique OSs. WinXP
was beyond 'em. Leave well enough alone, I say.

OK, that makes more sense. Haven't played with Windows for some time so loosing familiarity with it. Plus Ubuntu not making any noises (though
the one downstairs sometimes does).

PCLOS is pretty quiet too -- startup sound and a shutdown ding, and
that's it. I suppose one can set system sounds but I haven't bothered.

KM> Ooops. :) I got cured of paying for AMD over 20 years ago (see
KM> the aforementioned K6-2 debacle; this was the socket7 era!) and
KM> have seen no reason to regret that decision. Quite the
KM> contrary... Have been seeing all manner of complaints about Ryzen
KM> CPUs, nothing consistent but kinda looks like rushed-to-market.
KM> Wait a year and buy the equivalent Intel CPU (after the price
KM> comes down) and be happy for years instead.

Yes, LIS in another message, I've had other AMD computers around here
but they were all 'minor players': primary role as Frontend to the

Yeah, I have some random AMDs that fell on my head, but closest I've
come to buying one is a $15 upgrade for Westworld, since the one that
came with the board is just painful. Newer one is still 40% slower than
the equivalent Intel, but at least it's not masochism to use anymore.

A bunch of CPU comparisons -- a range of what my boards can use http://twilightasylum.com/pc/cpus.htm
and the ones in service with different benchmarks: http://twilightasylum.com/pc/cpus3.htm

Note how much slower Westworld benches with raw numbers (CPU-Z) vs
gaming benchmarks (Passmark).

Also note how much faster the same system is with a 64bit OS -- the AMD
CPU (Paint It Black) about 40% faster, but the x64 CPU (Cash) 400% faster!!

MythTV system and do essentially dedicated. Something USB plugged in -- rare. Plus the Linux community seemed to have 'accepted' AMD, or at
least to the point would install. Didn't really cover any USB issues,
which is more a fault of the hardware and not OS nor software.

Linux community has a whole lot of "anything but the market leader" so
there's this natural affinity for AMD. Doesn't matter which one is
actually better -- we must support the underdog! and also the cheaper
CPU. I say let 'em keep the competition in business, to keep Intel on
their toes. <g>

KM> Wait, tell me about VNC?

Once upon a time... <g> VNC (www.realvnc.com) will remotely view and control another computer. For instance, I have a Raspberry Pi stuck
behind a TV I use as a Frontend (MythTV) but without keyboard or mouse attached, only use the TV's remote for a few basic functions. Any keyboarding it's easier for me to be up here in the Computer Room and
connect to the RPi via VNC, Can do updates, reboot (and will reconnect unless drastically change something). ...Have gone into the RPi's
MythTV from up here to add/update/check on a TV programme even though
the MythTV Backend computer is about ten feet behind me(!) - just easier
to access that way.

Ah, so sort of Remote Desktop for your local network.

> KM> Haha... having twin boards has been handy more than once. One
> KM> dies, just plug everything into the other and life goes on as
> KM> before.
> Yes, does tend to make repairs easier! Of course the problem is after a
> while run out of the duplicate parts. Cannibalizing does have
> advantages, though upgrading isn't one. <g>
KM> This is a minor difficulty. <g>

Still have plenty of those 286 motherboards, hmm?!

Alas, only one... I still have old Wedgie, tho it hasn't been fired up
in some years, and I'd have to swap out the vidcard as I no longer have
a monochrome monitor. However, I do have a 16bit vidcard, if I decide I
can't live without Wedgie's services. <g>

Uh-huh! Probably not a PSU issue here: not recalling what it is but
should be at least 600W, probably closer to 750. And don't know what a thumbdrive draws but should be too much. (OTOH have felt them get
warm in various computers).

Oh, more than plenty, then. I have randomly 350w to 650w in use, tho I
have one of those dim-the-lamps 1000W PSUs in the parts pile, just in
case someday I need to power a huge pile of HDs. (It has about 25
connectors and weighs 8 pounds!)

KM> And data is what the Southbridge handles... yeah, I saw the same
KM> thing with my misbehaving beast. Seemed to be data was the
KM> trigger, but data requires voltage to move...

GAA!!! It's all one big circle!! It would seem (and I'll admit to sort
of logically guessing) if voltage was the problem then plugging in to a powered USB hub should solve the problem: the hub has is own 5v supply.

BUT the port still needs a live circuit to move data...

KM> Um, no. With FAT32 the SAFE limit is 32GB, which is why original
KM> FDISK was limited to 32GB for FAT32 disks. Yeah, later versions
KM> of FDISK could do 64GB, but this was a Bad Idea from someone
KM> evidently not fully in the know, because there's a known bug (or
KM> if you prefer, limitation) in FAT32: if the partition is larger
KM> than 32GB, as soon as data crosses that 32GB barrier (either in
KM> total, or just getting written that far out on the disk) FAT32
KM> starts eating files, in a manner that looks a lot like a disk
KM> failure.

Yes, agree. I'll admit to being sloppy and not fully being familiar
with details. Have come across files over 4 GB being truncated because
of the file system limitation. I think in this specific instance the
problem is MotionEye not being able to expand the ISO (?) properly. Use
a 64 GB card - <buzz!> Literally the same command line except having to change drive location from sdi to sdg with a 32 GB card - <ding!>

Don't do that, unless you LIKE data corruption...

KM> So if you are trying to make a FAT32 partition larger than 32GB,
KM> and your software refuses -- it's just trying to save your sorry
KM> butt.

Right. I wasn't trying to do that. The card was marked as 64 GB,
detected as such, worked fine with a limited test (copied a file to the
64 GB partition). just the expansion script used by MotionEye doesn't
seem to like anything over 32 GB. I have seen 64 and 128 GB cards with MotionEye pre-installed -- don't like the price, plus if something goes
wrong I'm screwed since I'm relying on somebody else.

NOthing prevents you from cloning the card...

KM> exFAT (Extended FAT, commonly used on flash drives) is a

I didn't see exFAT as a option to format the SD card. It is available
-- just re-checked gparted. OTOH LIS a bit earlier, it seems to be a limitation of MotionEye even though is the specific version for the
Raspberry Pi 3.

Pi CPUs are still 32bit... not sure how that limits an ARM CPU.

KM> different filesystem entirely, more like NTFS without the
KM> journaling overhead (and without the allocation table redundancy,
KM> so if it fails, there's no recovery). Older Windows needs a patch
KM> to see exFAT. It can be used on Really Big Disks. I usually
KM> reformat 'em NTFS so everything can see it without any hoop
KM> jumping.

I've been using a journaled system on my bigger mainframe/server-type
systems because I do want the recovery ability -- and probably have used
it!

Yeah, no telling how much the OS did while you weren't looking!!

KM> Of course FAT32 also has a filesize limit of about 4GB. NTFS and
KM> exFAT have no such limit.

Don't need that large a file for the MotionEye system. Other systems,
yes.

I don't even know what MotionEye IS... <goes off, learns it's some sort
of home surveillance system>

Oh: also had run into a similiar problem with one of my external card adapters: it is USB 2.0 and has capacity limitiations based on the card:
SDHC is 32 GB, Mini SDHC is 4 GB, regular and Micro SDXC is 64 GB. And
to anticipate the question: IOGear GFR209. (I used a SIIG guess model JU-MR0712-S1 which says supports up to 2 TB.)

Where did you find a miniSD?? Someone gift me a very old "PocketPC"
phone (Windows phone with a REAL KEYBOARD!) which is useless as a phone
(can't connect to anything anymore), but is a very nice literal pocket
PC (with a REAL KEYBOARD!!). Just a 200MHz CPU, but enough for
stripped-down WinXP it seems to run. Anyway it has a mini-SD slot!

Might be going inside later! 'sudo dmidecode --type 39' was given one
place as a way to find the PSU information -- not here. Sort of
wandering the command line and 'sudo dmidecode | grep -i Power' gave me
a line that said I have one power cord!! Use two for 240? <g> ...Ah!
Maybe plug two cords into two different outlets on two different
circuits!!

Oh, there's useful...

OK, back to work: pretty sure it's a Thermaltake rated 750W.

Should be decent enough. I'm an Enermax bigot (at least so long as they
were 100% vertical), but haven't heard anything terrible about
Thermaltake PSUs.

I've got an old PSU for a Sanders 720 with capacitors about 4" in
diameter by about the same in height!!

Holy crap!! you don't want to touch those for a month or two after
powering down...

As I recall when I purchased the upgrade RAM checked with Crucial's site
and they said a max of 8 GB (4x 2GB). So I'm thinking my "M51" tag is
wrong. Right now can't see an official chassis tag.

Is there some linux util that IDs hardware by brand and model number,
like SIW or Speccy for Windows??

KM> Lenovo seems to have some funny ideas about its own products...
KM> frex that RMA'd dual CPU board I got back as "refused"?? Lenovo
KM> support guy swears up and down it's not theirs, and he worked on
KM> developing the D20 line so he knows! BUT when I plug the model
KM> number into Lenovo search, guess what, up comes the D20. Which it
KM> doesn't look like... but BIOS (when it had one CPU, thus before
KM> it PFFZT'd) said it IS a Lenovo D20. Must be some hands that
KM> never shook other hands, is all I can think.

They hired someone from Microsoft? Failed line "Nope, we never did
that"! <g>

Haha, apparently so <g>

KM> I can't find the M51 on their site at all. Closest is the M53.

"It gets worse"! One of the "M51"'s tagged here is an IBM - has the
logo on the front. Their label "8142-KNB". I lso have a note "Intel
Pentium 4 @ 3.20 GHz x2" (so dual core) and "RAM 3.0 GB max 4". So this
one is the true M51.

That's a 32bit CPU. So tho the CPU can theoretically address 64GB RAM,
it can only run 32bit OSs. Which normally limits it to 4GB RAM, but even
linux can use PAE...

https://askubuntu.com/questions/272873/what-is-the-maximum-amount-of-ram-that-ubuntu-32-bit-supports

...which should kick it up to 8GB.

> > Sounds like winter projects!
> KM> At least, after the baseball season. <g>
> But now they're showing reruns!
KM> Not yet!
You sure? Maybe your memory... <g>

I still have all 8GB!

> And there have been fiber optic 'noises' for years. Some time ago the
KM> I have fiber right across the road, laid when Montana Power got
That's highly annoying! Don't know if you recall him here from years ago
but think it was Chopin Chusacks <sp> who lived on the wrong side of the road: across the street was able to get some service but he could not.

I remember him but not these woes!

Possible, though seems with CenturyLink this lack of upgrading has been
going on before then. And CL seems to be huge, so more "we'll be buying
you" than "you'll be buying us". Oh well. ...And thinking NBC was
bought by GE and Universal and so Comcast, ABC by Disney....

Asked their local guy about fiber. He said the fiber-specific switching equipment costs about $100,000 per unit... which is why they ain't doing
it for small neighborhoods. Unless we want to pony up for it...
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Hi Ky!

Anyway, did plug in a memory card adapter and that made things lock up. Yea!! Unfortunately the Log file was 0 bytes after the reboot. And of course the adapter worked fine after that.

So it's probably electrical, not OS. Still think you've got a
hardware failure in progress.

OK. Not happy about it but at least is an answer and can narrow down
what to work on. Will still keep an eye out for possible other issues
but yes, it does seem more like a Southbridge issue rather than
something like a power supply one.

And as it seems one cannot bypass the Southbridge that means one needs
to replace the motherboard. Start looking more intently for good buys
on Intel-based boards and of course the accompanying CPU. Any
suggestions?

KM> You'd think? Well, here's a thought... maybe voltage is not
KM> reaching the ports? USB tester is about 4 bucks...
I have previously tested the voltage and appears OK. OTOH maybe not as closely as should: may have been more "yes there is a good 5v output
[it's not at 4.5]" type of look. And somehow I half-remember just
inserting the tester locked it up once -- does have to have data pass-through.....

Plug a flash drive into the tester BEFORE inserting it, and see
what it says...

OK. (Will do later when done messaging and a lock-up isn't going to be
as much of a problem.)



¯ BarryMartin3@ ®
¯ @MyMetronet.NET ®

... When you don't know what to do, walk fast and look worried.
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Hi Ky!

> > > > Sure; remember when you had amnesia?!
> > > KM> Is that what I forgot??
> > > We don't recall now...
> > KM> Wait, now we both have amnesia?
> > Maybe - what do we compare it to?
> KM> Why are you asking *me*??!
> You were handy. :)
KM> But I'm way over here!
Physically -- who knows where your mind is!!

It should be right here... somewhere...

Check behind the pillows again.

Played a bit with a thumbrive last night: no lockups and no voltage spikes/dips ... caught! One second is an awfully long time! Don't know
if can change the time to less than a second, plus need to log. Will continue fiddling with that later.

Most of these things take times in milliseconds...??

That long?! Yes, that was a thought was it probably takes longer to
write the file than the lockup action takes. And I wrote last night the
log file disappears on boot, so even if I did happen to catch the error
the information escaped.

Will try with the USB Tester -- difficult to see a spike but may
discover something. And of course the problem seems to be with the Southbridge, so no work-around other than a new motherboard eventually

KM> Sounds like it, actually. Similar problems reported across about
KM> a ten year span (went I went looking, found it was a
KM> broadly-distributed complaint).
Hmmm: one would think after that length of time.... Could see if was
like the bad filter cap issue.

So... have you popped the lid and looked for bad capacitors? When
I did so, they were so obvious you couldn't miss 'em... had
boiled up what looked like a rod sticking out of 'em! Yes, my
computer threw a rod.

Haven't been inside for a while. If I do see 'capacitor throw-up'
that'll hasten the search for a new motherboard!

KM> First Asus-vs-USB I've any experience of was in Double Vision, an
KM> Asus A8N-SLI (2006; AMD socket939). Supposedly USB2, but during
KM> boot it can only do USB1. Eventually USB stopped working
KM> entirely.

And then the whole board stopped working.. initially by refusing
to run Windows. Then by refusing to run anything. Well, it's not
like Double Vision wasn't already retired; wouldn't have known if
I hadn't taken a notion to test something with it. Tarnish now
occupies that case.

Yes, I've reused cases as well as other components.

(Thinking numerous semi-random options, trouble is I don't know enough
on how the electronics works. Up until a day or two ago it sounded like
a good work-around to stick in a PCI(e) USB card to bypass.)

Many things sound better before you know... <g>

The solution certainly seemed simpler!!

KM> That's the one with the Athlon 64 3200+ 2.2GHz ... supposedly a
KM> 64bit CPU, but has AMD's not-true-64bit bug. (At least they're
KM> consistent; I remember when the K6-2 had a not-true-32bit bug.
KM> Known issue and they shipped 'em anyway.) Having got the
KM> attention of the retro-gaming crowd, Socket939 CPUs are still
KM> quite expensive to upgrade, so since this system was rapidly
KM> superceded by newer and better, I never did... and just as well,
KM> because guess what -- it's recently blown several capacitors.
KM> Anyone care to guess whether they're associated with the
KM> southbridge chip??
Oo! Oo! Oo! Pick me! Pick meeee! <waving hand wildly>

Barry, can you tell us the answer? :D

<blank look> Ugh-ugh, I just gotta go to the can, man! (Autumn, our granddaughter, is in first grade and has done some remote learning here
as well as playign School. Every once in a while that line from the (I
think) Sister Mary Elephant skit pops in [but I don't dare say it
aloud!].)

KM> Ya know, there might be a reason why I kinda prefer MSI boards...
KM> beyond their feature set. But weren't any in the price range at
KM> the time... and Silver's new board at least was from the higher
KM> end of things... well, hopefully it'll be lucky, and outlast its
KM> poor relations.
With the USB issue part of me is thinking 'dump the Asus board' on this computer and then the Scottish Guy in me says the board is perfectly
good except for that Southbridge issue. Worthwhile as an NAS? Seems to

Well, that's what happened with Tarnish -- USB no workee, and it
also refuses to boot with more than 4GB RAM (normal max capacity
8GB, but at a guess that much overloads the bogus circuit) but
it's perfectly fine with PCLOS as a media streamer that never
sees USB nor serious work.

Although based on the Wikipedia article it seems that's a little
dangerous as the Southbridge deals with just about everything: USB,
Ethernet, hard drives, BIOS accesses.... Almost seems more important
than the CPU!

I do note that everything loads slower than the same hardware
with 8GB RAM, but once loaded you can't really tell, given all it
does is stream baseball. Or sometimes run ReactOS, which can
scrape by on 128mb RAM and doesn't like over 4GB anyway.

Something like the MythTV Frontends here: the computer could take a
couple of minutes to load and get in to Myth but once it's loaded runs
just as well as any other. As long as a decent video card, of course.

be fine as long as don't touch USB, and even then if plug in a USB
device and it does lock up seems to be fine on reboot (the USB device
is connected at boot). OTOH talk abouit overkill: eight core CPU. And

Eight core or four cores with hyperthreading?? AMD got in trouble
for 'confusing' the two in its marketing...

I'm not sure: it's using an AMD FX8320, which is "8 cores" and I didn't
see anything about hyperthreading in various advertisements, though did
skim through some debate in a Tom's Hardware thread: a couple of posts
said it used hyperthreading, a couple said no, eight separate cores,
while a couple other seemed to indicate it was a eight cores with a form
of hyperthreading....

Also noted the FX8320 (maybe the whole FX series) is marketed toward
gamers. I think I had the idea a 'gamer computer' would be fast overall
when really it is probably fast in video.

could swap for a single core but AMD and the new motherboard would want Intel.

Yeah, not worth messing with. Also, single-core AMDs are
painfully slow with today's OSs. In fact were painfully slow with
antique OSs. WinXP was beyond 'em. Leave well enough alone, I
say.

One of the posts I had skimmed though for the hyperthread question had mentioned a 3 GHz Intel is faster than a 4 GHz AMD. The post used more specific speeds like 3.2, but that was the idea.

OK, that makes more sense. Haven't played with Windows for some time so loosing familiarity with it. Plus Ubuntu not making any noises (though
the one downstairs sometimes does).

PCLOS is pretty quiet too -- startup sound and a shutdown ding,
and that's it. I suppose one can set system sounds but I haven't
bothered.

Here's it's pretty much just a barely-audible chirp when the systems
start up. Do like the piezo speaker: at least there's a clue as to
what's wrong should I hear multiple chirps.

Did have to unplug the speaker (yes, had a speaker) in one years ago
because for some reason the sound from MythTV came through! AFAICT
everything was configured correctly; couple of options to quiet the
speaker also stopped the HDMI audio so reluctantly unplugged the speaker
-- and taped a note inside to remind me it was unplugged just in case I
needed it for troubleshooting noises.

KM> Ooops. :) I got cured of paying for AMD over 20 years ago (see
KM> the aforementioned K6-2 debacle; this was the socket7 era!) and
KM> have seen no reason to regret that decision. Quite the
KM> contrary... Have been seeing all manner of complaints about Ryzen
KM> CPUs, nothing consistent but kinda looks like rushed-to-market.
KM> Wait a year and buy the equivalent Intel CPU (after the price
KM> comes down) and be happy for years instead.
Yes, LIS in another message, I've had other AMD computers around here
but they were all 'minor players': primary role as Frontend to the

Yeah, I have some random AMDs that fell on my head, but closest
I've come to buying one is a $15 upgrade for Westworld, since the
one that came with the board is just painful. Newer one is still
40% slower than the equivalent Intel, but at least it's not
masochism to use anymore.

So overall a low-cost fix.

MythTV system and do essentially dedicated. Something USB plugged in -- rare. Plus the Linux community seemed to have 'accepted' AMD, or at
least to the point would install. Didn't really cover any USB issues,
which is more a fault of the hardware and not OS nor software.

Linux community has a whole lot of "anything but the market
leader" so there's this natural affinity for AMD. Doesn't matter
which one is actually better -- we must support the underdog! and
also the cheaper CPU. I say let 'em keep the competition in
business, to keep Intel on their toes. <g>

<chuckle> That is one thing! No competition, no need to improve.

KM> Wait, tell me about VNC?
Once upon a time... <g> VNC (www.realvnc.com) will remotely view and control another computer. For instance, I have a Raspberry Pi stuck
behind a TV I use as a Frontend (MythTV) but without keyboard or mouse attached, only use the TV's remote for a few basic functions. Any keyboarding it's easier for me to be up here in the Computer Room and connect to the RPi via VNC, Can do updates, reboot (and will reconnect unless drastically change something). ...Have gone into the RPi's
MythTV from up here to add/update/check on a TV programme even though
the MythTV Backend computer is about ten feet behind me(!) - just easier
to access that way.

Ah, so sort of Remote Desktop for your local network.

It will also work on the outside: port 5900, make the Firewall exception/ allowance, probably a couple other things. (Looked it up, I haven't
needed to do that here.)

Uh-huh! Probably not a PSU issue here: not recalling what it is but
should be at least 600W, probably closer to 750. And don't know what a thumbdrive draws but should be too much. (OTOH have felt them get
warm in various computers).

Oh, more than plenty, then. I have randomly 350w to 650w in use,
tho I have one of those dim-the-lamps 1000W PSUs in the parts
pile, just in case someday I need to power a huge pile of HDs.
(It has about 25 connectors and weighs 8 pounds!)

Or use that one 1KW (well, 1,000 equals!) to power several of your
computers! I'd leave the original 'wimpy' PSUs in place as backups. ...Wonder if they make PSU cable extensions?!

KM> And data is what the Southbridge handles... yeah, I saw the same
KM> thing with my misbehaving beast. Seemed to be data was the
KM> trigger, but data requires voltage to move...
GAA!!! It's all one big circle!! It would seem (and I'll admit to sort
of logically guessing) if voltage was the problem then plugging in to a powered USB hub should solve the problem: the hub has is own 5v supply.

BUT the port still needs a live circuit to move data...

Agree. I didn't fill out/did my logic jump: if the problem was the 5
volt source inside the computer then by having an external voltage
source effectively bypassing the internal one the problem should go
away. As the problem did not resolve then the voltage probably is not
the problem and something in data is.

KM> Um, no. With FAT32 the SAFE limit is 32GB, which is why original
KM> FDISK was limited to 32GB for FAT32 disks. Yeah, later versions
KM> of FDISK could do 64GB, but this was a Bad Idea from someone
KM> evidently not fully in the know, because there's a known bug (or
KM> if you prefer, limitation) in FAT32: if the partition is larger
KM> than 32GB, as soon as data crosses that 32GB barrier (either in
KM> total, or just getting written that far out on the disk) FAT32
KM> starts eating files, in a manner that looks a lot like a disk
KM> failure.
Yes, agree. I'll admit to being sloppy and not fully being familiar
with details. Have come across files over 4 GB being truncated because
of the file system limitation. I think in this specific instance the problem is MotionEye not being able to expand the ISO (?) properly. Use
a 64 GB card - <buzz!> Literally the same command line except having to change drive location from sdi to sdg with a 32 GB card - <ding!>

Don't do that, unless you LIKE data corruption...

I'm lost. MotionEyeOS doesn't seem to be able to handle partitioning a
card greater thaan 32 GB. the only reason the drive got changed from
/dev/sdi to /dev/sdg was because the 64 GB card was seen at I and the 32
GB card at G.

KM> So if you are trying to make a FAT32 partition larger than 32GB,
KM> and your software refuses -- it's just trying to save your sorry
KM> butt.
Right. I wasn't trying to do that. The card was marked as 64 GB,
detected as such, worked fine with a limited test (copied a file to the
64 GB partition). just the expansion script used by MotionEye doesn't
seem to like anything over 32 GB. I have seen 64 and 128 GB cards with MotionEye pre-installed -- don't like the price, plus if something goes wrong I'm screwed since I'm relying on somebody else.

NOthing prevents you from cloning the card...

True: copy over the (say) 16 GB original and then s-t-r-e-t-c-h the
storage partition to - oo! - 1 TB!

KM> exFAT (Extended FAT, commonly used on flash drives) is a
I didn't see exFAT as a option to format the SD card. It is available
-- just re-checked gparted. OTOH LIS a bit earlier, it seems to be a limitation of MotionEye even though is the specific version for the Raspberry Pi 3.

Pi CPUs are still 32bit... not sure how that limits an ARM CPU.

Actually have been mostly doing on this system (64bit Ubuntu 18.04, AMD). Wonder if gparted hasn't been updated or just still working on it:
there's a format chart and the exfat line does not allow to create,
grow, shrink, check, label, UUID. Does allow moving and copying.

KM> different filesystem entirely, more like NTFS without the
KM> journaling overhead (and without the allocation table redundancy,
KM> so if it fails, there's no recovery). Older Windows needs a patch
KM> to see exFAT. It can be used on Really Big Disks. I usually
KM> reformat 'em NTFS so everything can see it without any hoop
KM> jumping.
I've been using a journaled system on my bigger mainframe/server-type systems because I do want the recovery ability -- and probably have used
it!

Yeah, no telling how much the OS did while you weren't looking!!

It seems to be faster than I am!

KM> Of course FAT32 also has a filesize limit of about 4GB. NTFS and
KM> exFAT have no such limit.
Don't need that large a file for the MotionEye system. Other systems,
yes.

I don't even know what MotionEye IS... <goes off, learns it's
some sort of home surveillance system>

I'm causing you to learn all sorts of things!! (I'll try to be a good influence!)

Oh: also had run into a similiar problem with one of my external card adapters: it is USB 2.0 and has capacity limitiations based on the card: SDHC is 32 GB, Mini SDHC is 4 GB, regular and Micro SDXC is 64 GB. And
to anticipate the question: IOGear GFR209. (I used a SIIG guess model JU-MR0712-S1 which says supports up to 2 TB.)

Where did you find a miniSD??

Just typed what they said. I've got an old Compact Flash.

Someone gift me a very old
"PocketPC" phone (Windows phone with a REAL KEYBOARD!) which is
useless as a phone (can't connect to anything anymore), but is a
very nice literal pocket PC (with a REAL KEYBOARD!!). Just a
200MHz CPU, but enough for stripped-down WinXP it seems to run.
Anyway it has a mini-SD slot!

So there!

I've got an old PSU for a Sanders 720 with capacitors about 4" in
diameter by about the same in height!!

Holy crap!! you don't want to touch those for a month or two
after powering down...

<chuckle> Might make a good battery backup for an emergency lighting
system - wonder how long it would power a few LEDs?!

As I recall when I purchased the upgrade RAM checked with Crucial's site
and they said a max of 8 GB (4x 2GB). So I'm thinking my "M51" tag is wrong. Right now can't see an official chassis tag.

Is there some linux util that IDs hardware by brand and model
number, like SIW or Speccy for Windows??

'hwinfo' might work. At this point would just be easier to pull the
unit from the storage stack and look at the label - would have to plug
in power and monitor anyway!!

KM> I can't find the M51 on their site at all. Closest is the M53.
"It gets worse"! One of the "M51"'s tagged here is an IBM - has the
logo on the front. Their label "8142-KNB". I lso have a note "Intel Pentium 4 @ 3.20 GHz x2" (so dual core) and "RAM 3.0 GB max 4". So this
one is the true M51.

That's a 32bit CPU. So tho the CPU can theoretically address 64GB
RAM, it can only run 32bit OSs. Which normally limits it to 4GB
RAM, but even linux can use PAE... https://askubuntu.com/questions/272873/what-is-the-maximum-amount- of-ram-that-u
untu-32-bit-supports
...which should kick it up to 8GB.

I might have something incorrectly set in the BIOS, or just limited
because of something in the way the motherboard is wired. At this point
an old and slow system doesn't do me much good, though reluctant to get
rid of it as good for a back up or test unit.

> > Sounds like winter projects!
> KM> At least, after the baseball season. <g>
> But now they're showing reruns!
KM> Not yet!
You sure? Maybe your memory... <g>

I still have all 8GB!

But did it pass MEMTEST86?!

> And there have been fiber optic 'noises' for years. Some time ago the
KM> I have fiber right across the road, laid when Montana Power got
That's highly annoying! Don't know if you recall him here from years ago
but think it was Chopin Chusacks <sp> who lived on the wrong side of the road: across the street was able to get some service but he could not.

I remember him but not these woes!

May have been someone else. Seems like the person I'm trying to recall
lived in a warehouse.

Possible, though seems with CenturyLink this lack of upgrading has been going on before then. And CL seems to be huge, so more "we'll be buying you" than "you'll be buying us". Oh well. ...And thinking NBC was
bought by GE and Universal and so Comcast, ABC by Disney....

Asked their local guy about fiber. He said the fiber-specific
switching equipment costs about $100,000 per unit... which is why
they ain't doing it for small neighborhoods. Unless we want to
pony up for it...

While I think of it CenturyLink apparently changed their name to
'Lumen'. Called one of their Billing numbers and got an announcement
which indicated it was for business customers and half-heard something
that sounded like 'Lumen'; checked out later and is their new name.
BTW, did get a credit for the five days without telephone service --
almost 32x what I calculated!

As for $100K per unit, sure it's an expense, but here they've (CL/Lumen)
have lost customers because of not supplying.


¯ BarryMartin3@ ®
¯ @MyMetronet.NET ®

... Devote your spare time to neglecting your duties.
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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

> > > > > Sure; remember when you had amnesia?!
> > > > KM> Is that what I forgot??
> > > > We don't recall now...
> > > KM> Wait, now we both have amnesia?
> > > Maybe - what do we compare it to?
> > KM> Why are you asking *me*??!
> > You were handy. :)
> KM> But I'm way over here!
> Physically -- who knows where your mind is!!
KM> It should be right here... somewhere...
Check behind the pillows again.

Was that lazy bugger lounging on the couch again??

> Played a bit with a thumbrive last night: no lockups and no voltage
> spikes/dips ... caught! One second is an awfully long time! Don't know
> if can change the time to less than a second, plus need to log. Will
> continue fiddling with that later.
KM> Most of these things take times in milliseconds...??
That long?! Yes, that was a thought was it probably takes longer to
write the file than the lockup action takes. And I wrote last night the
log file disappears on boot, so even if I did happen to catch the error
the information escaped.

Or the logfile is never written?? usually when it's hardware blipping,
there's no chance to write one.

Will try with the USB Tester -- difficult to see a spike but may
discover something. And of course the problem seems to be with the Southbridge, so no work-around other than a new motherboard eventually

Yeah, seems like it. :(

KM> So... have you popped the lid and looked for bad capacitors? When
KM> I did so, they were so obvious you couldn't miss 'em... had
KM> boiled up what looked like a rod sticking out of 'em! Yes, my
KM> computer threw a rod.

Haven't been inside for a while. If I do see 'capacitor throw-up'
that'll hasten the search for a new motherboard!

Won't it tho! Too often they act like something else is wrong for a
while... video gets iffy, works for a while then locks up, locks up if
you do the wrong thing (Barry! No touchee the USB!) ...but soon enough
one checks the caps and well, there's the problem!!

While back I was testing some of the old old stash (P3 era) and had
several come up dead... on closer inspection, guess what was wrong!!

Yes, I've reused cases as well as other components.

All but one of mine are recycled cases <g>

> KM> Anyone care to guess whether they're associated with the
> KM> southbridge chip??
> Oo! Oo! Oo! Pick me! Pick meeee! <waving hand wildly>
KM> Barry, can you tell us the answer? :D

<blank look> Ugh-ugh, I just gotta go to the can, man! (Autumn, our

<marks Barry's report card "BAD CAPACITORS">

granddaughter, is in first grade and has done some remote learning here
as well as playign School. Every once in a while that line from the (I think) Sister Mary Elephant skit pops in [but I don't dare say it
aloud!].)

I have no idea who this Sister Mary Elephant is...

KM> Well, that's what happened with Tarnish -- USB no workee, and it
KM> also refuses to boot with more than 4GB RAM (normal max capacity
KM> 8GB, but at a guess that much overloads the bogus circuit) but
KM> it's perfectly fine with PCLOS as a media streamer that never
KM> sees USB nor serious work.

Although based on the Wikipedia article it seems that's a little
dangerous as the Southbridge deals with just about everything: USB,
Ethernet, hard drives, BIOS accesses.... Almost seems more important
than the CPU!

Well, all Tarnish does right now is be a secondary media streamer, using Cash's PCLOS setup. I don't think that install has written a file to
disk, other than the odd screenshot or whatever logs it keeps, in close
to 3 years. And I'm not expecting ReactOS to do real work as yet (tho
it's reached a state where it's usable enough, if one had to -- decent
choice for, say, an old 32bit laptop with limited RAM).

But I wouldn't trust it with My Precious Files, for sure.

KM> I do note that everything loads slower than the same hardware
KM> with 8GB RAM, but once loaded you can't really tell, given all it
KM> does is stream baseball. Or sometimes run ReactOS, which can
KM> scrape by on 128mb RAM and doesn't like over 4GB anyway.

Something like the MythTV Frontends here: the computer could take a
couple of minutes to load and get in to Myth but once it's loaded runs
just as well as any other. As long as a decent video card, of course.

How decent does it need?

> be fine as long as don't touch USB, and even then if plug in a USB
> device and it does lock up seems to be fine on reboot (the USB device
> is connected at boot). OTOH talk abouit overkill: eight core CPU. And
KM> Eight core or four cores with hyperthreading?? AMD got in trouble
KM> for 'confusing' the two in its marketing...

I'm not sure: it's using an AMD FX8320, which is "8 cores" and I didn't
see anything about hyperthreading in various advertisements, though did
skim through some debate in a Tom's Hardware thread: a couple of posts
said it used hyperthreading, a couple said no, eight separate cores,
while a couple other seemed to indicate it was a eight cores with a form
of hyperthreading....

Ah, that family. What I've read is that it's not really 8 cores, but
rather that was AMD's usual ... too enthusiastic ... marketing; I found
this:

"All Bulldozer and its revision (Steamroller, Excavator, etc) have 4
processor modules composed of 2 integer and 1 floating point processor."

Meaning it's really 4 cores, but 8 threads.

Also noted the FX8320 (maybe the whole FX series) is marketed toward
gamers. I think I had the idea a 'gamer computer' would be fast overall
when really it is probably fast in video.

Yeah... gaming benchmarks are not realworld benchmarks; they are indeed
geared toward best frames-per-second in high-end games, rather than CPU-actual-work as done in business apps and the like.

That's why I pay less attention to Passmark benchmarks nowadays... it
too is geared toward the fps wars. CPU-Z just does raw run-everything,
which oughta be more accurate for the CPU alone (no influence from the
video subsystem).

> could swap for a single core but AMD and the new motherboard would want
> Intel.
KM> Yeah, not worth messing with. Also, single-core AMDs are
KM> painfully slow with today's OSs. In fact were painfully slow with
KM> antique OSs. WinXP was beyond 'em. Leave well enough alone, I
KM> say.

One of the posts I had skimmed though for the hyperthread question had mentioned a 3 GHz Intel is faster than a 4 GHz AMD. The post used more specific speeds like 3.2, but that was the idea.

That's my experience too -- the AMD, nominally 25% faster, is actually
about 40% slower than the Intel. True of every one I've benchmarked,
across about 18 years of AMD CPUs.

http://twilightasylum.com/pc/cpus3.htm
Westworld's CPU makes a good example... supposedly way faster than those
in the Intel quad-cores (Tarnish, Lightfoot, Cash, Bullet), but in fact
is about 40% slower.

Did have to unplug the speaker (yes, had a speaker) in one years ago
because for some reason the sound from MythTV came through! AFAICT

Oh my... usually you have to go out of your way, special driver and everything, to get an application's sound to come through the case speaker!!

everything was configured correctly; couple of options to quiet the
speaker also stopped the HDMI audio so reluctantly unplugged the speaker
-- and taped a note inside to remind me it was unplugged just in case I needed it for troubleshooting noises.

Linux is weird. And it turns us all into weirdoes, with weird PCs. <g>

KM> Yeah, I have some random AMDs that fell on my head, but closest
KM> I've come to buying one is a $15 upgrade for Westworld, since the
KM> one that came with the board is just painful. Newer one is still
KM> 40% slower than the equivalent Intel, but at least it's not
KM> masochism to use anymore.

So overall a low-cost fix.

Yeah. I could gain ~20% with the fastest CPU that board supports, but it
would still be no better than the quad-core Intels, which I already have
more of than I need. And all the faster CPUs still cost $60+ used!! So I settled for roughly tripling performance for $15. :D

Paint It Black (which unfortunately is BIOS-locked, so stuck at quite a
bit slower than the board otherwise supports) ... could take what's
supposed to be a 10% speed upgrade, but per all the benchmarks I found,
that upgrade CPU actually runs slower! WTF. I should actually bench it
with Westworld's original CPU, given it's the same board otherwise.

> KM> Wait, tell me about VNC?
KM> Ah, so sort of Remote Desktop for your local network.
It will also work on the outside: port 5900, make the Firewall exception/ allowance, probably a couple other things. (Looked it up, I haven't
needed to do that here.)

I wouldn't either!

KM> tho I have one of those dim-the-lamps 1000W PSUs in the parts
KM> pile, just in case someday I need to power a huge pile of HDs.
KM> (It has about 25 connectors and weighs 8 pounds!)

Or use that one 1KW (well, 1,000 equals!) to power several of your
computers! I'd leave the original 'wimpy' PSUs in place as backups.

LOL! Friend in Canada does something like that... PSUs are sort of daisy chained between boxen, so one might support this here mainboard and that
there pile of HDs. Adding to the confusion he uses Stacker modular
cases, which can take two PSUs.

..Wonder if they make PSU cable extensions?!

They do, but I've not seen any more than about a foot long.

I'm lost. MotionEyeOS doesn't seem to be able to handle partitioning a
card greater thaan 32 GB. the only reason the drive got changed from /dev/sdi to /dev/sdg was because the 64 GB card was seen at I and the 32
GB card at G.

Now my brain hurts. <g>

KM> NOthing prevents you from cloning the card...

True: copy over the (say) 16 GB original and then s-t-r-e-t-c-h the
storage partition to - oo! - 1 TB!

LOL, I do that sort of thing with Ghost all the time...

Actually have been mostly doing on this system (64bit Ubuntu 18.04, AMD). Wonder if gparted hasn't been updated or just still working on it:
there's a format chart and the exfat line does not allow to create,
grow, shrink, check, label, UUID. Does allow moving and copying.

https://gparted.org/

Looks like the main requirement is enough RAM.

[Oh, I see they've updated it...]

KM> I don't even know what MotionEye IS... <goes off, learns it's
KM> some sort of home surveillance system>

I'm causing you to learn all sorts of things!! (I'll try to be a good influence!)

<wonders what bad things Barry could teach me>

> I've got an old PSU for a Sanders 720 with capacitors about 4" in
> diameter by about the same in height!!
KM> Holy crap!! you don't want to touch those for a month or two
KM> after powering down...

<chuckle> Might make a good battery backup for an emergency lighting
system - wonder how long it would power a few LEDs?!

Probably not very long, actually.

KM> Is there some linux util that IDs hardware by brand and model
KM> number, like SIW or Speccy for Windows??

'hwinfo' might work. At this point would just be easier to pull the
unit from the storage stack and look at the label - would have to plug
in power and monitor anyway!!

Hmm. Synaptic says it's installed, but it does not want to run. (Might
be objecting to Chrome streaming stuff at the same time...)

> KM> I can't find the7 M51 on their site at all. Closest is the M53.
I might have something incorrectly set in the BIOS, or just limited
because of something in the way the motherboard is wired. At this point

Or might need a BIOS update?

an old and slow system doesn't do me much good, though reluctant to get
rid of it as good for a back up or test unit.

Yeah, I have this whole pile like that...

> > > Sounds like winter projects!
> > KM> At least, after the baseball season. <g>
> > But now they're showing reruns!
> KM> Not yet!
> You sure? Maybe your memory... <g>
KM> I still have all 8GB!

But did it pass MEMTEST86?!

What is this "test" of which thou speaks??

> but think it was Chopin Chusacks <sp> who lived on the wrong side of the
> road: across the street was able to get some service but he could not.
KM> I remember him but not these woes!
May have been someone else. Seems like the person I'm trying to recall
lived in a warehouse.

I have a fictional character who lives in a warehouse. <g>

Who was it whose packets went from the midwest to a California BBS ...
by way of Singapore??

While I think of it CenturyLink apparently changed their name to
'Lumen'. Called one of their Billing numbers and got an announcement
which indicated it was for business customers and half-heard something
that sounded like 'Lumen'; checked out later and is their new name.
BTW, did get a credit for the five days without telephone service --
almost 32x what I calculated!

Oh, that explains the very confused postcard I got from them. Your
account number will change, your account number won't change, you need
to do this, you need to do nothing. Bah. I plan to ignore it.

As for $100K per unit, sure it's an expense, but here they've (CL/Lumen)
have lost customers because of not supplying.

No doubt.

.. Devote your spare time to neglecting your duties.

Oh, THAT'S how you get spare time!
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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

> Anyway, did plug in a memory card adapter and that made things lock up.
> Yea!! Unfortunately the Log file was 0 bytes after the reboot. And of
> course the adapter worked fine after that.
KM> So it's probably electrical, not OS. Still think you've got a
KM> hardware failure in progress.

OK. Not happy about it but at least is an answer and can narrow down
what to work on. Will still keep an eye out for possible other issues
but yes, it does seem more like a Southbridge issue rather than
something like a power supply one.

Yeah. And of course it all sounds painfully familiar. :(

And as it seems one cannot bypass the Southbridge that means one needs
to replace the motherboard. Start looking more intently for good buys
on Intel-based boards and of course the accompanying CPU. Any
suggestions?

I like MSI for feature set. Friend likes Gigabyte for reliability (I've
never owned one, just haven't come my way), and they hawk 'em as extra
durable for business use. Used to buy DFI for clients -- very reliable
back in the day, dunno about now but I can tell you that an inquiry gets
a Live Human, and they sell direct. I love Tyan boards for stability,
but they don't really make a consumer board anymore. (Tho they may be
OEM'ing for Lenovo.)

Then of course I wind up with a pile of Asus, cuz that's what falls on
my head.

Don't care for the layout on ASRock, tho don't know anything for or
against, and never owned one, but they cater to gamers, which is not a
plus in my book.

Stay away from Biostar.

No-name boards are mostly Chinese manufacture from recycled components.
Per Phil's Computer Lab (who demos 'em occasionally) some pretty good,
some an Adventure. I don't think I'd pay money for one unless I needed something odd and specific that wasn't available elsewhere; they're
mostly geared toward retro-gaming.

One set of opinions: https://premiumbuilds.com/motherboards/best-motherboard-brands/

(NO freakin' RBG blinkenlights would be a plus...)

CPU will be constrained by chipset, but the 9th generation Intels have
come down some in price as the next generation come out, so...
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Hi Ky!

> > > > > Sure; remember when you had amnesia?!
> > > > KM> Is that what I forgot??
> > > > We don't recall now...
> > > KM> Wait, now we both have amnesia?
> > > Maybe - what do we compare it to?
> > KM> Why are you asking *me*??!
> > You were handy. :)
> KM> But I'm way over here!
> Physically -- who knows where your mind is!!
KM> It should be right here... somewhere...
Check behind the pillows again.

Was that lazy bugger lounging on the couch again??

I'm not so sure he got up in the first place much less again!

> Played a bit with a thumbrive last night: no lockups and no voltage
> spikes/dips ... caught! One second is an awfully long time! Don't know
> if can change the time to less than a second, plus need to log. Will
> continue fiddling with that later.
KM> Most of these things take times in milliseconds...??
That long?! Yes, that was a thought was it probably takes longer to
write the file than the lockup action takes. And I wrote last night the
log file disappears on boot, so even if I did happen to catch the error
the information escaped.

Or the logfile is never written?? usually when it's hardware
blipping, there's no chance to write one.

The logfile was being created and updated: I saw it incrementing prior
to the lockup. Script has an '>>' to append to the original file.

Will try with the USB Tester -- difficult to see a spike but may
discover something. And of course the problem seems to be with the Southbridge, so no work-around other than a new motherboard eventually

Yeah, seems like it. :(

Oh well.

KM> So... have you popped the lid and looked for bad capacitors? When
KM> I did so, they were so obvious you couldn't miss 'em... had
KM> boiled up what looked like a rod sticking out of 'em! Yes, my
KM> computer threw a rod.
Haven't been inside for a while. If I do see 'capacitor throw-up'
that'll hasten the search for a new motherboard!

Won't it tho! Too often they act like something else is wrong for
a while... video gets iffy, works for a while then locks up,
locks up if you do the wrong thing (Barry! No touchee the USB!)
...but soon enough one checks the caps and well, there's the
problem!!

And swapping out part used to be relatively easy, though I've never done
with a computer. Soldering those teeny-tiny surface-mount components,
or if through the board multiple trace layers....

While back I was testing some of the old old stash (P3 era) and
had several come up dead... on closer inspection, guess what was
wrong!!

Ummm. power supply fuse blown?! No? ...Bad capacitors?

> KM> Anyone care to guess whether they're associated with the
> KM> southbridge chip??
> Oo! Oo! Oo! Pick me! Pick meeee! <waving hand wildly>
KM> Barry, can you tell us the answer? :D
<blank look> Ugh-ugh, I just gotta go to the can, man! (Autumn, our

<marks Barry's report card "BAD CAPACITORS">

I suppose that has to be signed -- MDM5 or SHA-256?

granddaughter, is in first grade and has done some remote learning here
as well as playing School. Every once in a while that line from the (I think) Sister Mary Elephant skit pops in [but I don't dare say it
aloud!].)

I have no idea who this Sister Mary Elephant is...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDaCNA3pink ('Pink'?) No idea where I originally heard it -- maybe on the radio. One of those things people
don't expect me to know much less like because it's the opposite of me
-- I am a Gemini!

KM> Well, that's what happened with Tarnish -- USB no workee, and it
KM> also refuses to boot with more than 4GB RAM (normal max capacity
KM> 8GB, but at a guess that much overloads the bogus circuit) but
KM> it's perfectly fine with PCLOS as a media streamer that never
KM> sees USB nor serious work.
Although based on the Wikipedia article it seems that's a little
dangerous as the Southbridge deals with just about everything: USB, Ethernet, hard drives, BIOS accesses.... Almost seems more important
than the CPU!

Well, all Tarnish does right now is be a secondary media
streamer, using Cash's PCLOS setup. I don't think that install
has written a file to disk, other than the odd screenshot or
whatever logs it keeps, in close to 3 years. And I'm not
expecting ReactOS to do real work as yet (tho it's reached a
state where it's usable enough, if one had to -- decent choice
for, say, an old 32bit laptop with limited RAM).

But I wouldn't trust it with My Precious Files, for sure.

Right. I'm trying to come up with usages here, which of course are
different from your potentials there. Sort of could use a new network
storage device -- yeah, let's archive to a known defective motherboard!!
Only non-critical application I can think of right now is as a MythTV Frontend.

KM> I do note that everything loads slower than the same hardware
KM> with 8GB RAM, but once loaded you can't really tell, given all it
KM> does is stream baseball. Or sometimes run ReactOS, which can
KM> scrape by on 128mb RAM and doesn't like over 4GB anyway.
Something like the MythTV Frontends here: the computer could take a
couple of minutes to load and get in to Myth but once it's loaded runs
just as well as any other. As long as a decent video card, of course.

How decent does it need?

Depends on the various quality specs -- SD vs. HD vs. 4K -- but a decent
video card with 2 GB video RAM is probably as low as I'd want to go: on lateral camera panning I'd occasionally notice a tearing strip: like if someone took scissors and cut the picture I'd notice the top third of
the picture would have a slight bit of lag/advance compared to the
bottom but only when panning. Barely noticeable. When I replaced the
CPU's heatsink/fan assembly also upgraded to a 4 GB video card and that
took care of the issue. ...They also semi-suggest passively-cooled
video cards: quieter (no fan noise). I've had some Frontends with
fan-cooled video cards where the fan has frozen and has not caused a
problem: only knew about the fan not working when I went inside because
of something else.

> be fine as long as don't touch USB, and even then if plug in a USB
> device and it does lock up seems to be fine on reboot (the USB device
> is connected at boot). OTOH talk abouit overkill: eight core CPU. And
KM> Eight core or four cores with hyperthreading?? AMD got in trouble
KM> for 'confusing' the two in its marketing...
I'm not sure: it's using an AMD FX8320, which is "8 cores" and I didn't
see anything about hyperthreading in various advertisements, though did
skim through some debate in a Tom's Hardware thread: a couple of posts
said it used hyperthreading, a couple said no, eight separate cores,
while a couple other seemed to indicate it was a eight cores with a form
of hyperthreading....

Ah, that family. What I've read is that it's not really 8 cores,
but rather that was AMD's usual ... too enthusiastic ...
marketing; I found this:
"All Bulldozer and its revision (Steamroller, Excavator, etc)
have 4 processor modules composed of 2 integer and 1 floating
point processor."
Meaning it's really 4 cores, but 8 threads.

I have seen that type of information. Ubuntu's "System Monitor" reports
as 8 cores; have seen System Monitor report other computers around here
as half the cores listed/advertised and on a bit of research they are
doubling up. ...Think on new 'main stuff' I'll stick with Intel.

Also noted the FX8320 (maybe the whole FX series) is marketed toward
gamers. I think I had the idea a 'gamer computer' would be fast overall when really it is probably fast in video.

Yeah... gaming benchmarks are not realworld benchmarks; they are
indeed geared toward best frames-per-second in high-end games,
rather than CPU-actual-work as done in business apps and the
like.

But it sounded logical! Really needed to open that Black Box and
discover there were a few more boxes inside and one was marked 'Video'
and another 'Thinking'.

That's why I pay less attention to Passmark benchmarks
nowadays... it too is geared toward the fps wars. CPU-Z just does
raw run-everything, which oughta be more accurate for the CPU
alone (no influence from the video subsystem).

I won't skimp on the video card but it definitely won't be the $500 and
$1000 ones out there! Wow: my text document scrolled through at 72
pages per second!

> could swap for a single core but AMD and the new motherboard would want
> Intel.
KM> Yeah, not worth messing with. Also, single-core AMDs are
KM> painfully slow with today's OSs. In fact were painfully slow with
KM> antique OSs. WinXP was beyond 'em. Leave well enough alone, I
KM> say.
One of the posts I had skimmed though for the hyperthread question had mentioned a 3 GHz Intel is faster than a 4 GHz AMD. The post used more specific speeds like 3.2, but that was the idea.

That's my experience too -- the AMD, nominally 25% faster, is
actually about 40% slower than the Intel. True of every one I've benchmarked, across about 18 years of AMD CPUs.

There seems to be a point of commonality there!

Did have to unplug the speaker (yes, had a speaker) in one years ago
because for some reason the sound from MythTV came through! AFAICT

Oh my... usually you have to go out of your way, special driver
and everything, to get an application's sound to come through the
case speaker!!

Leave it to me! I don't recall doing anything unusual -- was an older Mythbuntu (barebones Ubuntu and MythTV mixed together to create an OS;
now MythTV is an application to the Ubuntu OS). And pretty sure it
wasn't a quirk of the MythTV part as also got sound with speakertest. ...New/current installation -- Ubuntu 18.04 + MythTV v30 -- speaker only
has sound on boot with a single beep as it's supposed to.

everything was configured correctly; couple of options to quiet the
speaker also stopped the HDMI audio so reluctantly unplugged the speaker
-- and taped a note inside to remind me it was unplugged just in case I needed it for troubleshooting noises.

Linux is weird. And it turns us all into weirdoes, with weird
PCs. <g>

But we're loveable! Just don't bother us when we're working on a
problem!

KM> Yeah, I have some random AMDs that fell on my head, but closest
KM> I've come to buying one is a $15 upgrade for Westworld, since the
KM> one that came with the board is just painful. Newer one is still
KM> 40% slower than the equivalent Intel, but at least it's not
KM> masochism to use anymore.
So overall a low-cost fix.

Yeah. I could gain ~20% with the fastest CPU that board supports,
but it would still be no better than the quad-core Intels, which
I already have more of than I need. And all the faster CPUs still
cost $60+ used!! So I settled for roughly tripling performance
for $15. :D

Yup! I like that too!

Paint It Black (which unfortunately is BIOS-locked, so stuck at
quite a bit slower than the board otherwise supports) ... could
take what's supposed to be a 10% speed upgrade, but per all the
benchmarks I found, that upgrade CPU actually runs slower! WTF. I
should actually bench it with Westworld's original CPU, given
it's the same board otherwise.

Maybe the slowdown is due to it checking it's work before passing it on!

> KM> Wait, tell me about VNC?
KM> Ah, so sort of Remote Desktop for your local network.
It will also work on the outside: port 5900, make the Firewall exception/ allowance, probably a couple other things. (Looked it up, I haven't
needed to do that here.)

I wouldn't either!

I can see where the option would be handy.

KM> tho I have one of those dim-the-lamps 1000W PSUs in the parts
KM> pile, just in case someday I need to power a huge pile of HDs.
KM> (It has about 25 connectors and weighs 8 pounds!)
Or use that one 1KW (well, 1,000 equals!) to power several of your computers! I'd leave the original 'wimpy' PSUs in place as backups.

LOL! Friend in Canada does something like that... PSUs are sort
of daisy chained between boxen, so one might support this here
mainboard and that there pile of HDs. Adding to the confusion he
uses Stacker modular cases, which can take two PSUs.

Is he trying to emulate Watson?!

..Wonder if they make PSU cable extensions?!

They do, but I've not seen any more than about a foot long.

Well I suppose then a foot + a foot + a foot....

I'm lost. MotionEyeOS doesn't seem to be able to handle partitioning a
card greater thaan 32 GB. The only reason the drive got changed from /dev/sdi to /dev/sdg was because the 64 GB card was seen at I and the 32
GB card at G.

Now my brain hurts. <g>

As long as I don't try to write to /dev/sda or /dev/sdb then my brain
really REALLY hurt!! (Boot drive and data drive.)

KM> NOthing prevents you from cloning the card...
True: copy over the (say) 16 GB original and then s-t-r-e-t-c-h the
storage partition to - oo! - 1 TB!

LOL, I do that sort of thing with Ghost all the time...

Maybe that's what they do. I went with a little bit different way and
put the OS on a 16 GB card and storage on a 128 GB thumbdrive -- that
works fine!

Actually have been mostly doing on this system (64bit Ubuntu 18.04, AMD). Wonder if gparted hasn't been updated or just still working on it:
there's a format chart and the exfat line does not allow to create,
grow, shrink, check, label, UUID. Does allow moving and copying.

https://gparted.org/
Looks like the main requirement is enough RAM.
[Oh, I see they've updated it...]

Something to keep me busy later! And 32 GB RAM should be sufficient
(only using a little over 6).

KM> I don't even know what MotionEye IS... <goes off, learns it's
KM> some sort of home surveillance system>
I'm causing you to learn all sorts of things!! (I'll try to be a good influence!)

<wonders what bad things Barry could teach me>

<classroom murmuring gets louder>
Sister Mary Elephant: SHUUUT UUUP!! Thank you!

> I've got an old PSU for a Sanders 720 with capacitors about 4" in
> diameter by about the same in height!!
KM> Holy crap!! you don't want to touch those for a month or two
KM> after powering down...
<chuckle> Might make a good battery backup for an emergency lighting
system - wonder how long it would power a few LEDs?!

Probably not very long, actually.

Possibly not. Some years back I was playing with some of the larger
(probably electrolytic) capacitors I have stored in a plastic shoe box
-- size was right for the coin envelopes I have the 'regular sized'
resistors and capacitors in so bought several for consistent storage.
Anyway, charged up a few of the big value ones and discharged via pilot
lights -- filament. Some of the caps did power the pilot lights several seconds! (Yes, there are times I'm very easily amused!)

KM> Is there some linux util that IDs hardware by brand and model
KM> number, like SIW or Speccy for Windows??
'hwinfo' might work. At this point would just be easier to pull the
unit from the storage stack and look at the label - would have to plug
in power and monitor anyway!!

Hmm. Synaptic says it's installed, but it does not want to run.
(Might be objecting to Chrome streaming stuff at the same
time...)

I originally read that as "Chrome stealing stuff"!

> KM> I can't find the M51 on their site at all. Closest is the M53.
I might have something incorrectly set in the BIOS, or just limited
because of something in the way the motherboard is wired. At this point

Or might need a BIOS update?

Maybe. At the time I was using it (probably an M58 -- I has mis-marked
it as an M51 when putting in storage) as a major/primary system and at
the time accidentally bricking it would not be a good idea. Did have a
back up laptop, could have moved the hard drive to another system, but
overall a major bother at the time.

an old and slow system doesn't do me much good, though reluctant to get
rid of it as good for a back up or test unit.

Yeah, I have this whole pile like that...

<Looking at cart when older computer are stored> One, two, three.....

> > > Sounds like winter projects!
> > KM> At least, after the baseball season. <g>
> > But now they're showing reruns!
> KM> Not yet!
> You sure? Maybe your memory... <g>
KM> I still have all 8GB!
But did it pass MEMTEST86?!

What is this "test" of which thou speaks??

?? "MEMTEST86"? It's a utility (included with Ubuntu installs the past
several versions -- access via GRUB screen) to test memory/RAM. Option
1 is a sort of quick test, Option 2 goes much more in depth. Option 1
you could probably pass.

> but think it was Chopin Chusacks <sp> who lived on the wrong side of the
> road: across the street was able to get some service but he could not.
KM> I remember him but not these woes!
May have been someone else. Seems like the person I'm trying to recall lived in a warehouse.

I have a fictional character who lives in a warehouse. <g>

Is he living there because where house?!

Who was it whose packets went from the midwest to a California
BBS ... by way of Singapore??

No wonder my ping is so slow!

While I think of it CenturyLink apparently changed their name to
'Lumen'. Called one of their Billing numbers and got an announcement
which indicated it was for business customers and half-heard something
that sounded like 'Lumen'; checked out later and is their new name.
BTW, did get a credit for the five days without telephone service --
almost 32x what I calculated!

Oh, that explains the very confused postcard I got from them.
Your account number will change, your account number won't
change, you need to do this, you need to do nothing. Bah. I plan
to ignore it.

I haven't seen anything like that - yet. ,,.Checking today's e-mail
from the Post Office (!) - nope, nothing for today anyway. Hmm: just
noticed two ad pieces are in colour while the rest is in monochrome.

As for $100K per unit, sure it's an expense, but here they've (CL/Lumen) have lost customers because of not supplying.

No doubt.

They lost me for Internet and probably going to be loosing me for
telephone.

.. Devote your spare time to neglecting your duties.

Oh, THAT'S how you get spare time!

If you didn't work for yourself you'd know that first-hand!




¯ BarryMartin3@ ®
¯ @MyMetronet.NET ®

... His birth certificate was an apology letter from the condom factory.
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Hi Ky!

> Anyway, did plug in a memory card adapter and that made things lock up.
> Yea!! Unfortunately the Log file was 0 bytes after the reboot. And of
> course the adapter worked fine after that.
KM> So it's probably electrical, not OS. Still think you've got a
KM> hardware failure in progress.
OK. Not happy about it but at least is an answer and can narrow down
what to work on. Will still keep an eye out for possible other issues
but yes, it does seem more like a Southbridge issue rather than
something like a power supply one.

Yeah. And of course it all sounds painfully familiar. :(

Sorry about that!

The good news -- well, for me -- is I can learn from your painful
experiences. It's unlikely is a problem with a loose wire. broken
trace, intermittent contact, etc. Good news is those might have been
fixed with solder or electrical tape or replacing a relatively
inexpensive part; bad news is the fix is replacement by a relatively
expensve pair of parts.

And as it seems one cannot bypass the Southbridge that means one needs
to replace the motherboard. Start looking more intently for good buys
on Intel-based boards and of course the accompanying CPU. Any
suggestions?

I like MSI for feature set. Friend likes Gigabyte for reliability
(I've never owned one, just haven't come my way), and they hawk

<snip for reply but keeping for reference>

I've got/had an old MSI. Not sure about about the feature set as I tend
to set and forget. Do have a Gigabyte around here some place... it's
snoozing currently -- nmap is seeing it but Angry IP Scanner isn't
identifying it.

Then of course I wind up with a pile of Asus, cuz that's what
falls on my head.

I've learned to use more shelves so less stacking. <g>

Stay away from Biostar.

Had something from them a long time ago.

No-name boards are mostly Chinese manufacture from recycled

Some parts I will go with 'random Chinese stuff' as most tend to be made
over there anyway but for motherboards, video cards, power supplies,
etc., I will save up my money and pay the extra cost for the name brand.
of course again there is the difference between me as individual and you
as (at times) contracting to a business.

(NO freakin' RBG blinkenlights would be a plus...)

<chuckle> Unless they provided some sort of a warning when the fan
failed, componets getting too hot, etc.

Did see a case some time back with an essentially medium-resolution
monitor on one side. To me that would be handy for something like my
weather station project: take a glance once in a while to see it's 49ø
out. the wind's from the south at 10 MPH.....

CPU will be constrained by chipset, but the 9th generation Intels
have come down some in price as the next generation come out,
so...

Buy the new 2020 models at used prices!


¯ BarryMartin3@ ®
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... Kind, intelligent, loving & hot;
This describes everything you are not!
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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

> OK. Not happy about it but at least is an answer and can narrow down
> what to work on. Will still keep an eye out for possible other issues
> but yes, it does seem more like a Southbridge issue rather than
> something like a power supply one.
KM> Yeah. And of course it all sounds painfully familiar. :(
Sorry about that!

Ow ow ow :O

KM> Then of course I wind up with a pile of Asus, cuz that's what
KM> falls on my head.

I've learned to use more shelves so less stacking. <g>

Is that the trick!!

KM> Stay away from Biostar.

Had something from them a long time ago.

Me too. First really fast PC I had my hands on. About the time I got it
set up, it died of bad capacitors. They're kinda cheaply made anyway...

KM> No-name boards are mostly Chinese manufacture from recycled

Some parts I will go with 'random Chinese stuff' as most tend to be made
over there anyway but for motherboards, video cards, power supplies,
etc., I will save up my money and pay the extra cost for the name brand.
of course again there is the difference between me as individual and you
as (at times) contracting to a business.

Yeah, quick and dirty can be anything, but everyday needs to be reliable.

KM> (NO freakin' RBG blinkenlights would be a plus...)

<chuckle> Unless they provided some sort of a warning when the fan
failed, componets getting too hot, etc.

It can do that just as well via beeps!

KM> CPU will be constrained by chipset, but the 9th generation Intels
KM> have come down some in price as the next generation come out,
KM> so...

Buy the new 2020 models at used prices!

Yeah, I buy from last year or the year before, save a ton of money and considering how fast CPUs are nowadays, don't lose much.
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Hi Ky!

> OK. Not happy about it but at least is an answer and can narrow down
> what to work on. Will still keep an eye out for possible other issues
> but yes, it does seem more like a Southbridge issue rather than
> something like a power supply one.
KM> Yeah. And of course it all sounds painfully familiar. :(
Sorry about that!

Ow ow ow :O

There there -- things will get better! The 'good news' is no matter
what someone else has the same or very similar problem. Not that mysery
loves company but at least can compare notes and learn from each other's experiences.

KM> Then of course I wind up with a pile of Asus, cuz that's what
KM> falls on my head.
I've learned to use more shelves so less stacking. <g>

Is that the trick!!

I don't know about _the_ trick but for me _a_ trick! And build from the
bottom up with the actual items: those manufacturer's measurements may
say "16.70 inches" but won't fit in a 16.75" space!

KM> Stay away from Biostar.
Had something from them a long time ago.

Me too. First really fast PC I had my hands on. About the time I
got it set up, it died of bad capacitors. They're kinda cheaply
made anyway...

I was half-remembering thinking I had one running here -- check nmap but
no; nothing even close. Mine was a MB-8500TTD motherboard ==> Intel
CPUs: P54C/P55C to 233MHz. Probably long gone as the files are from
2008.

KM> No-name boards are mostly Chinese manufacture from recycled
Some parts I will go with 'random Chinese stuff' as most tend to be made over there anyway but for motherboards, video cards, power supplies,
etc., I will save up my money and pay the extra cost for the name brand.
of course again there is the difference between me as individual and you
as (at times) contracting to a business.

Yeah, quick and dirty can be anything, but everyday needs to be
reliable.

Right. Just like here for the MythTV computers I'm not all that
concerned about performance and reliability. Do want something
reasonable so as to not waste money (and time repairing or replacing),
but for something I consider critical like this machine and the MythTV
server want to go with a name brand if for nothing more than optimal OS support. (No-name 'Zingpuf' might get auto-configured bu the operating
system set-up as generic and so give mediocre perforance.)

KM> (NO freakin' RBG blinkenlights would be a plus...)
<chuckle> Unless they provided some sort of a warning when the fan
failed, componets getting too hot, etc.

It can do that just as well via beeps!

Though the beeps are usually after-the-fact! RGB LEDs could be
programmed to be orange and red when whatever they're monitoring is
starting to get too hot.

KM> CPU will be constrained by chipset, but the 9th generation Intels
KM> have come down some in price as the next generation come out,
KM> so...
Buy the new 2020 models at used prices!

Yeah, I buy from last year or the year before, save a ton of
money and considering how fast CPUs are nowadays, don't lose
much.

I can only type and click so fast, but I don't like waiting too long for
the machine to process a simple request. And buying 'old' not only
means saving a bit of money from bleeding edge but probably most of the
bugs have been discovered and corrected. (Too bad about those
Southbridge capacitors!)



¯ BarryMartin3@ ®
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... Animal testing is a bad idea; they get nervous and give wrong answers.
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Hi Ky!

A while back we were talking about my system locking up when a USB
device was inserted and a couple of things to check. Battled with the
Round TuIts, But Firsts, etc. You had given a link which suggested
going in to the BIOS to disable the Marvell SATA ports and Etron USB
ports. Couldn't find those options in the manual (I did an electronic
search) nor snooping around live. ("Marvell" does sound familiar --
blue or red?? Maybe another motherboard.)

Did snoop in the Southbridge section and nothing seems even close to
those two.

Currently trying an option "ASMedia USB 3.0 Battery Charging Support".
Default is off (disabled); trying 'enabled' only because it seems to be
the only option having anything to do with USB other than legacy and
disabling. Plus the power aspect seemed a 'maybe': no surge of power
when plugging in a thumbdrive but maybe this option would act like a
slow-blow fuse and let whatever is occasionally locking the system
settle down.

Tnx!

¯ BarryMartin3@ ®
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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

A while back we were talking about my system locking up when a USB
device was inserted and a couple of things to check. Battled with
the Round TuIts, But Firsts, etc. You had given a link which
suggested going in to the BIOS to disable the Marvell SATA ports and

I did? :)

Currently trying an option "ASMedia USB 3.0 Battery Charging
Support". Default is off (disabled); trying 'enabled' only because it
seems to be the only option having anything to do with USB other than
legacy and disabling. Plus the power aspect seemed a 'maybe': no
surge of power when plugging in a thumbdrive but maybe this option
would act like a slow-blow fuse and let whatever is occasionally
locking the system settle down.

Might be letting it draw more power than spec.

Mine that has the defective southbridge circuit (that cooked several capacitors) continues to be just fine, so long as I don't plug in USB anything!! Right now it's hosting the old original PCLOS setup, which
gets used as the #2 channel for summer baseball ...

... so I can have two games going at once, since I haven't figured out
how to get the Dell with the updated PCLOS to speak to a 2nd monitor. It
has a vidcard and onboard video, tho not sure both can be convinced to
work at the same time.
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Hi Ky!

A while back we were talking about my system locking up when a USB
device was inserted and a couple of things to check. Battled with
the Round TuIts, But Firsts, etc. You had given a link which
suggested going in to the BIOS to disable the Marvell SATA ports and

I did? :)

Sure; remember when you had amnesia?!

Currently trying an option "ASMedia USB 3.0 Battery Charging
Support". Default is off (disabled); trying 'enabled' only because it
seems to be the only option having anything to do with USB other than
legacy and disabling. Plus the power aspect seemed a 'maybe': no
surge of power when plugging in a thumbdrive but maybe this option
would act like a slow-blow fuse and let whatever is occasionally
locking the system settle down.

Might be letting it draw more power than spec.

That was more or less my consideration for trying. Did try after
changing the setting; need to try again -- haven't needed to insert a thumbdrive or other USB device so forget. (Could try now but if the
system locks up sort of a pain to recover this message.)

Mine that has the defective southbridge circuit (that cooked
several capacitors) continues to be just fine, so long as I don't
plug in USB anything!!

Just like mine! Don't plug in a USB device and no lock ups! <g> Considering/wondering if a USB add-on card would work? By-pass the
touchy Southbridge circuitry. USB add-on card plugs into PCI/PCie --
not sure what that gets controlled by. ...Oh: "PCIe function comes
from the Southbridge microcontroller". Well, that doesn't sound like a workaround. OTOH might be worth a try: signal to a different path; a
card I have the power seems to be supplied directly by the PSU as
opposed to from the motherboard and possibly those bad capacitors.

Right now it's hosting the old original
PCLOS setup, which gets used as the #2 channel for summer
baseball ...

Better hurry: football season is starting!

... so I can have two games going at once, since I haven't
figured out how to get the Dell with the updated PCLOS to speak
to a 2nd monitor. It has a vidcard and onboard video, tho not
sure both can be convinced to work at the same time.

Seems to 'depends'. I've usually used a video card with capabilities of running two monitors. ...Seem to remember most motherboards I've worked
with here allow either the onboard video -or- run the daughtercard.


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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!
>
> A while back we were talking about my system locking up when a USB
> device was inserted and a couple of things to check. Battled with
> the Round TuIts, But Firsts, etc. You had given a link which
> suggested going in to the BIOS to disable the Marvell SATA ports and
KM> I did? :)

Sure; remember when you had amnesia?!

Is that what I forgot??

> Currently trying an option "ASMedia USB 3.0 Battery Charging
> Support". Default is off (disabled); trying 'enabled' only because it
> seems to be the only option having anything to do with USB other than
> legacy and disabling. Plus the power aspect seemed a 'maybe': no
> surge of power when plugging in a thumbdrive but maybe this option
> would act like a slow-blow fuse and let whatever is occasionally
> locking the system settle down.
KM> Might be letting it draw more power than spec.
That was more or less my consideration for trying. Did try after
changing the setting; need to try again -- haven't needed to insert a thumbdrive or other USB device so forget. (Could try now but if the
system locks up sort of a pain to recover this message.)

Not so sure putting MORE juice into a possibly-failing circuit is such a
good idea... BTW did you ever mention the make and model of this board?

KM> Mine that has the defective southbridge circuit (that cooked
KM> several capacitors) continues to be just fine, so long as I don't
KM> plug in USB anything!!

Just like mine! Don't plug in a USB device and no lock ups! <g>

Amazing!

Considering/wondering if a USB add-on card would work? By-pass the
touchy Southbridge circuitry. USB add-on card plugs into PCI/PCie --
not sure what that gets controlled by. ...Oh: "PCIe function comes
from the Southbridge microcontroller". Well, that doesn't sound like a workaround. OTOH might be worth a try: signal to a different path; a
card I have the power seems to be supplied directly by the PSU as
opposed to from the motherboard and possibly those bad capacitors.

Nope, it doesn't bypass -- USB is still USB, apparently. In fact my
add-on card (added since the board doesn't natively do USB3) was the
first set of ports to fail.

KM> Right now it's hosting the old original
KM> PCLOS setup, which gets used as the #2 channel for summer
KM> baseball ...

Better hurry: football season is starting!

Not at my house... Football is the poor relation, and it's become so structured and predictable that it's no longer interesting. And that was before all the secondary stupidity...

KM> ... so I can have two games going at once, since I haven't
KM> figured out how to get the Dell with the updated PCLOS to speak
KM> to a 2nd monitor. It has a vidcard and onboard video, tho not
KM> sure both can be convinced to work at the same time.

Seems to 'depends'. I've usually used a video card with capabilities of running two monitors. ...Seem to remember most motherboards I've worked
with here allow either the onboard video -or- run the daughtercard.

So I decided must be the case, tho it's not universal -- common enough
for laptops to be able to display own screen and out via a port. Tho not
sure how it's set up -- but I've seen laptops that insist they have both onboard and dedicated video, and both work simultaneously.

Which would be the same situation as with the Dell -- it has both. But
maybe not the required BIOS function. Next time I reboot (silly kernel updates) I'll have to look in there.
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Hi Ky!

> A while back we were talking about my system locking up when a USB
> device was inserted and a couple of things to check. Battled with
> the Round TuIts, But Firsts, etc. You had given a link which
> suggested going in to the BIOS to disable the Marvell SATA ports and
KM> I did? :)
Sure; remember when you had amnesia?!

Is that what I forgot??

We don't recall now...

> Currently trying an option "ASMedia USB 3.0 Battery Charging
> Support". Default is off (disabled); trying 'enabled' only because it
> seems to be the only option having anything to do with USB other than
> legacy and disabling. Plus the power aspect seemed a 'maybe': no
> surge of power when plugging in a thumbdrive but maybe this option
> would act like a slow-blow fuse and let whatever is occasionally
> locking the system settle down.
KM> Might be letting it draw more power than spec.
That was more or less my consideration for trying. Did try after
changing the setting; need to try again -- haven't needed to insert a thumbdrive or other USB device so forget. (Could try now but if the
system locks up sort of a pain to recover this message.)

Not so sure putting MORE juice into a possibly-failing circuit is
such a good idea... BTW did you ever mention the make and model
of this board?

Agree on your consideration of adding current is potentially a bad idea.
OTOH could be a good idea if the cause of the lockup was a voltage drop
when something inserted. Didn't work, or at least there was stil a lock
up so turned the option back off.

The motherboard is an ASUS M5A97 R2.0. Wandering the web have found
others with the same problem. Stuff about "LLC" -- Load Line
Calibration -- and "FSB" -- Front Side Bus ==> carry data between the
central processing unit (CPU) and a memory controller hub, known as the northbridge.

The LLC stuff sounds like a possibility only because deals with voltage.
which _may_ be the USB lockup. From what I can figure out appears the
BIOS is set correctly so didn't fiddle. FSB doesn't sound right: USB
stuff is Southbridge. Maaaybeee the system gets confused sometimes when something new is plugged in. <g>

KM> Mine that has the defective southbridge circuit (that cooked
KM> several capacitors) continues to be just fine, so long as I don't
KM> plug in USB anything!!
Just like mine! Don't plug in a USB device and no lock ups! <g>

Amazing!

And so far thas worked every time!

BTW, doesn't seem to matter where I plug in something, could have a lock
up. Normally plug in thumbdrives into the front panel because easier.
Have also plugged into two different powered USB Hubs and had lockups.
The Hubs were swapped out: I thought maybe the first one as faulty.
Plugged in to the same rear panel port via extension cable. The cable
has probably been moved to a different port over time.

Considering/wondering if a USB add-on card would work? By-pass the
touchy Southbridge circuitry. USB add-on card plugs into PCI/PCie --
not sure what that gets controlled by. ...Oh: "PCIe function comes
from the Southbridge microcontroller". Well, that doesn't sound like a workaround. OTOH might be worth a try: signal to a different path; a
card I have the power seems to be supplied directly by the PSU as
opposed to from the motherboard and possibly those bad capacitors.

Nope, it doesn't bypass -- USB is still USB, apparently. In fact
my add-on card (added since the board doesn't natively do USB3)
was the first set of ports to fail.

Darn. By what I was reading sort of thought so: PCI to Southbridge, so
if Southbridge is the problem not bypassing.

KM> Right now it's hosting the old original
KM> PCLOS setup, which gets used as the #2 channel for summer
KM> baseball ...
Better hurry: football season is starting!

Not at my house... Football is the poor relation, and it's become
so structured and predictable that it's no longer interesting.
And that was before all the secondary stupidity...

Right: should keep the games and political ideologies separate.

KM> ... so I can have two games going at once, since I haven't
KM> figured out how to get the Dell with the updated PCLOS to speak
KM> to a 2nd monitor. It has a vidcard and onboard video, tho not
KM> sure both can be convinced to work at the same time.
Seems to 'depends'. I've usually used a video card with capabilities of running two monitors. ...Seem to remember most motherboards I've worked with here allow either the onboard video -or- run the daughtercard.

So I decided must be the case, tho it's not universal -- common
enough for laptops to be able to display own screen and out via a
port. Tho not sure how it's set up -- but I've seen laptops that
insist they have both onboard and dedicated video, and both work simultaneously.

I can sort of see that as a 'speciality' of laptops: at a presentation
need to see what's on the laptop screen and possibly mirror to another
display for the group.

Which would be the same situation as with the Dell -- it has
both. But maybe not the required BIOS function. Next time I
reboot (silly kernel updates) I'll have to look in there.

BIOS update too? ...Well, a little Google-fu and found this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkK8mY1ZLSA The Dell support video did Windows; Ubuntu is Settings > Devices > Displays. Think that's it: only
one monitor connected but at one time did have two. (Two was nice, just
this desk-with-hutch doesn't make it physically handy.)



¯ BarryMartin3@ ®
¯ @MyMetronet.NET ®

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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

> > A while back we were talking about my system locking up when a USB
> > device was inserted and a couple of things to check. Battled with
> > the Round TuIts, But Firsts, etc. You had given a link which
> > suggested going in to the BIOS to disable the Marvell SATA ports and
> KM> I did? :)
> Sure; remember when you had amnesia?!
KM> Is that what I forgot??
We don't recall now...

Wait, now we both have amnesia?

KM> Not so sure putting MORE juice into a possibly-failing circuit is
KM> such a good idea... BTW did you ever mention the make and model
KM> of this board?

Agree on your consideration of adding current is potentially a bad idea.
OTOH could be a good idea if the cause of the lockup was a voltage drop
when something inserted. Didn't work, or at least there was stil a lock
up so turned the option back off.

You can look in the BIOS under ... I think it's under System Health --
and check the voltage in realtime. This (at least in my experience) will report what the board is using, not what the PSU is providing.

The motherboard is an ASUS M5A97 R2.0. Wandering the web have found
others with the same problem. Stuff about "LLC" -- Load Line
Calibration -- and "FSB" -- Front Side Bus ==> carry data between the central processing unit (CPU) and a memory controller hub, known as the northbridge.

Huh. That's the AMD version of Silver's (Intel) board. Apparently we
both have good taste. <g>

Yours:
https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/M5A97_R20/overview/
Mine:
https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/P9X79_LE/overview/

Bought Silver's used off eBay, CPU included... was the best sub-$200
option at the time, and haven't seen anything more exciting since in
that price range. Now if only I'd finish moving computer so I could
actually USE the thing...!!

(I kinda prefer MSI's feature set, and suspect they have better
durability, but the higher-end MSI boards rarely show up used.)

The LLC stuff sounds like a possibility only because deals with voltage. which _may_ be the USB lockup. From what I can figure out appears the
BIOS is set correctly so didn't fiddle. FSB doesn't sound right: USB
stuff is Southbridge. Maaaybeee the system gets confused sometimes when something new is plugged in. <g>

Any voltage drop in the 5V lines might affect USB.

> KM> Mine that has the defective southbridge circuit (that cooked
> KM> several capacitors) continues to be just fine, so long as I don't
> KM> plug in USB anything!!
> Just like mine! Don't plug in a USB device and no lock ups! <g>
KM> Amazing!
And so far thas worked every time!

True!

BTW, doesn't seem to matter where I plug in something, could have a lock
up. Normally plug in thumbdrives into the front panel because easier.
Have also plugged into two different powered USB Hubs and had lockups.
The Hubs were swapped out: I thought maybe the first one as faulty.
Plugged in to the same rear panel port via extension cable. The cable
has probably been moved to a different port over time.

The very first shoulda-been-a-clue with mine was that the USB3 hub
plugged into the USB3 add-on card quit working. Thought it was the hub, replaced it, new one worked... for a while. Pretty soon it didn't work
either. And then I got around to testing the "dead" hub with another PC,
and found it works perfectly. By then all Tarnish's USB ports had quit
and I'd had to resort to corded keyboard and mouse. And that's when it
got swapped for its twin, which doesn't seem to have the problem.

Discovered another problem, tho -- Tarnish (old Silver) had 4GB RAM
because WinXP 32bit can't use more than that anyway (and it was what was
handy at the time). Tried to give it 8GB since it's now hosting PCLOS,
which benefits from more RAM. WOULD NOT BOOT! Guessing it's the same
issue -- added power draw was too much for the defective circuit.

Ah, well... when I get completely moved into New Silver, Cash can have
its old job back (secondary PCLOS streaming box) and Tarnish can run
ReactOS (which runs well on Tarnish, and doesn't like it when there's
more than 4GB RAM anyway).

KM> Nope, it doesn't bypass -- USB is still USB, apparently. In fact
KM> my add-on card (added since the board doesn't natively do USB3)
KM> was the first set of ports to fail.

Darn. By what I was reading sort of thought so: PCI to Southbridge, so
if Southbridge is the problem not bypassing.

Yeah, I'da had the same thought, if I hadn't already experienced the
above fail!! After all, you can bypass a dead onboard NIC with an add-on
card (done that twice), why not same for USB? Whoops, logic fail..!!

> Better hurry: football season is starting!
KM> Not at my house... Football is the poor relation, and it's become
KM> so structured and predictable that it's no longer interesting.
KM> And that was before all the secondary stupidity...

Right: should keep the games and political ideologies separate.

Yeah. It's been slow to penetrate baseball, and each spasm of Stupid has tended to quickly peter out, but when there's so much top-down Thou Shalting... hopefully this crap will die down everywhere without
devolving into civil war. :(

> KM> ... so I can have two games going at once, since I haven't
> KM> figured out how to get the Dell with the updated PCLOS to speak
> KM> to a 2nd monitor. It has a vidcard and onboard video, tho not
> KM> sure both can be convinced to work at the same time.
> Seems to 'depends'. I've usually used a video card with capabilities of
> running two monitors. ...Seem to remember most motherboards I've worked
> with here allow either the onboard video -or- run the daughtercard.
KM> So I decided must be the case, tho it's not universal -- common
KM> enough for laptops to be able to display own screen and out via a
KM> port. Tho not sure how it's set up -- but I've seen laptops that
KM> insist they have both onboard and dedicated video, and both work
KM> simultaneously.
I can sort of see that as a 'speciality' of laptops: at a presentation
need to see what's on the laptop screen and possibly mirror to another display for the group.

Yeah, that's it exactly. I remember when most were still either-or, tho.

KM> Which would be the same situation as with the Dell -- it has
KM> both. But maybe not the required BIOS function. Next time I
KM> reboot (silly kernel updates) I'll have to look in there.

BIOS update too? ...Well, a little Google-fu and found this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkK8mY1ZLSA The Dell support video did Windows; Ubuntu is Settings > Devices > Displays. Think that's it: only
one monitor connected but at one time did have two. (Two was nice, just
this desk-with-hutch doesn't make it physically handy.)

Oooh, thanks, I'll give that a look (when I don't already have two
baseball streams hogging my shrinking connection...)

Did I gripe about CenturyLink yet? they changed my loop -- it got
shorter, but my connection went from stable 5Mbps to unstable 4Mpbs, and
am told by their now worthless tech support that it sucks to be me. One
of the fixed wireless companies is now almost competitive price for
faster connection... might have to switch.
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Hi Ky!

> > A while back we were talking about my system locking up when a USB
> > device was inserted and a couple of things to check. Battled with
> > the Round TuIts, But Firsts, etc. You had given a link which
> > suggested going in to the BIOS to disable the Marvell SATA ports and
> KM> I did? :)
> Sure; remember when you had amnesia?!
KM> Is that what I forgot??
We don't recall now...

Wait, now we both have amnesia?

Maybe - what do we compare it to?

KM> Not so sure putting MORE juice into a possibly-failing circuit is
KM> such a good idea... BTW did you ever mention the make and model
KM> of this board?
Agree on your consideration of adding current is potentially a bad idea. OTOH could be a good idea if the cause of the lockup was a voltage drop
when something inserted. Didn't work, or at least there was stil a lock
up so turned the option back off.

You can look in the BIOS under ... I think it's under System
Health -- and check the voltage in realtime. This (at least in my experience) will report what the board is using, not what the PSU
is providing.

Yes, I've looked at that and appears normal: 5v a fraction under (4.97v
IIRC), 12v a fraction over -- definitely within 1% as opposed to 10%.

The motherboard is an ASUS M5A97 R2.0. Wandering the web have found
others with the same problem. Stuff about "LLC" -- Load Line
Calibration -- and "FSB" -- Front Side Bus ==> carry data between the central processing unit (CPU) and a memory controller hub, known as the northbridge.

Huh. That's the AMD version of Silver's (Intel) board. Apparently
we both have good taste. <g>

Of course! :) Guess the good news is even though different CPUs and the assosicated design differences what is applicable to one is probably
applicable to the other. (And yes I did check to see if switching the A
to I was the 'trick' - nope!).

Yours:
https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/M5A97_R20/overview/
Mine:
https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/P9X79_LE/overview/

Should have read ahead (on the Intel guess).

Sort of got excited when scanned through the overview and came across
"check your PC in real time". I'm in "monitor the voltages" mode so interpreting that as seeing the voltages, temperatures, etc.; probably
is more like VNC or Remote Desktop.

Bought Silver's used off eBay, CPU included... was the best
sub-$200 option at the time, and haven't seen anything more
exciting since in that price range. Now if only I'd finish moving
computer so I could actually USE the thing...!!

Being able to use does tend to make a better investment. <gg> OTOH
having spare parts on hand isn't always a bad thing (no wait!)

The LLC stuff sounds like a possibility only because deals with voltage. which _may_ be the USB lockup. From what I can figure out appears the
BIOS is set correctly so didn't fiddle. FSB doesn't sound right: USB
stuff is Southbridge. Maaaybeee the system gets confused sometimes when something new is plugged in. <g>

Any voltage drop in the 5V lines might affect USB.

Agree, which is why I was sort of looking around and fiddling with
things like charging capabilities. OTOH would seem there should be more
of a correlation between which USB device cause the lockup. Seems like
a thumbdrive doesn't need all that much compared to a card reader or
external DVD or hard drive. And DC is constant, not like AC and I might
hit a low point. ...WAG

Last few days was fiddling with a card reader (adapter) and a microSD
card. Same reader, same card, almost always the same port. Once, out
of maybe a dozen times (seemed like more!) the system locked up. Would
seem if the adapter was the trigger (too much current, USB connector
pins misaligned and shorting out, etc.) I would have more lockups.

(BTW, the problem wasn't with the hardware but the software. Issue was
the software is supposed to format the SD card. Yup: I was using a 64
GB card and so over that limit. Switched to a 32 GB card -- no
problems.)

BTW, doesn't seem to matter where I plug in something, could have a lock
up. Normally plug in thumbdrives into the front panel because easier.
Have also plugged into two different powered USB Hubs and had lockups.
The Hubs were swapped out: I thought maybe the first one as faulty.
Plugged in to the same rear panel port via extension cable. The cable
has probably been moved to a different port over time.

The very first shoulda-been-a-clue with mine was that the USB3
hub plugged into the USB3 add-on card quit working. Thought it
was the hub, replaced it, new one worked... for a while. Pretty
soon it didn't work either. And then I got around to testing the
"dead" hub with another PC, and found it works perfectly. By then
all Tarnish's USB ports had quit and I'd had to resort to corded
keyboard and mouse. And that's when it got swapped for its twin,
which doesn't seem to have the problem.

And I have had, though not in the past couple months, where the (USB)
mouse 'dies'. Generally was a PEBKAC (PEBMAC?!) where I stretched out
my legs and caught the wire. Rerouted/suspended the cable fixed that.
OTOH way before that had to run a third USB extension: one USB line was
dead and was in the middle of something so didn't want to reboot.

Keyboard and mouse on the USB 2.0 ports; my plug-ins are almost-always
on USB 3.0, usually front port.

An this is probably nothing: during boot my powered USB 3.0 hub will be
on (port indicators), off for a second or so, and then back on. Don't
know if blinks or anything when a system lockup occurs as the hub is
behind me when I plug something into the front panel. Also not
recalling if the LEDs are on during a lockup.

Discovered another problem, tho -- Tarnish (old Silver) had 4GB
RAM because WinXP 32bit can't use more than that anyway (and it
was what was handy at the time). Tried to give it 8GB since it's
now hosting PCLOS, which benefits from more RAM. WOULD NOT BOOT!
Guessing it's the same issue -- added power draw was too much for
the defective circuit.

Might be a motherboard issue. I have a Lenovo desktop and it is
supposed to take 8 GB (4x 2GB) but ugh-ugh: 2+2+1+1 is its max. And
not the single-sided vs. double-sided issue as played with that.

Ah, well... when I get completely moved into New Silver, Cash can
have its old job back (secondary PCLOS streaming box) and Tarnish
can run ReactOS (which runs well on Tarnish, and doesn't like it
when there's more than 4GB RAM anyway).

Sounds like winter projects!

KM> Nope, it doesn't bypass -- USB is still USB, apparently. In fact
KM> my add-on card (added since the board doesn't natively do USB3)
KM> was the first set of ports to fail.
Darn. By what I was reading sort of thought so: PCI to Southbridge, so
if Southbridge is the problem not bypassing.

Yeah, I'da had the same thought, if I hadn't already experienced
the above fail!! After all, you can bypass a dead onboard NIC
with an add-on card (done that twice), why not same for USB?
Whoops, logic fail..!!

<whine> But it shouuuuuld work! </whine> Yup: I've upgraded slow NICs
with daughtercards. Also had an odd issue where the NIC failed to load apparently because the motherboard battery expired. Swapped in a USB- to-Ethernet adapter temporarily -- worked fine. Replaced the battery,
NIC came back to life!

> Better hurry: football season is starting!
KM> Not at my house... Football is the poor relation, and it's become
KM> so structured and predictable that it's no longer interesting.
KM> And that was before all the secondary stupidity...
Right: should keep the games and political ideologies separate.

Yeah. It's been slow to penetrate baseball, and each spasm of
Stupid has tended to quickly peter out, but when there's so much
top-down Thou Shalting... hopefully this crap will die down
everywhere without devolving into civil war. :(

Dad had his "Pendulum Theory": society's mindset swings back and forth, compbined with what is good for one group is bad for another.

> KM> ... so I can have two games going at once, since I haven't
> KM> figured out how to get the Dell with the updated PCLOS to speak
> KM> to a 2nd monitor. It has a vidcard and onboard video, tho not
> KM> sure both can be convinced to work at the same time.
> Seems to 'depends'. I've usually used a video card with capabilities of
> running two monitors. ...Seem to remember most motherboards I've worked
> with here allow either the onboard video -or- run the daughtercard.
KM> So I decided must be the case, tho it's not universal -- common
KM> enough for laptops to be able to display own screen and out via a
KM> port. Tho not sure how it's set up -- but I've seen laptops that
KM> insist they have both onboard and dedicated video, and both work
KM> simultaneously.
I can sort of see that as a 'speciality' of laptops: at a presentation
need to see what's on the laptop screen and possibly mirror to another display for the group.

Yeah, that's it exactly. I remember when most were still
either-or, tho.

Things change! <g> ...I'm also remembering to use two monitors my video
card had to reduce resolution. Don't recall the numbers and seemed my monitor(s) ran a maxium of 1920x1080 anyway.

Did I gripe about CenturyLink yet? they changed my loop -- it got
shorter, but my connection went from stable 5Mbps to unstable
4Mpbs, and am told by their now worthless tech support that it
sucks to be me. One of the fixed wireless companies is now almost competitive price for faster connection... might have to switch.

It almost seems like CenturyLink is setting themselves up to fail. When
I had the noisy DSL issue originally (2007?) had several technicians
come ot the house and they didn't know what they were doing. (OTOH I've
had telephone issues and they've been dealt with properly and promptly.)

Think I told you, or at least posted, a few months ago had a line noise (telephone) issue -- when that fixed I 'casually' asked to verify the
DSL speed before leaving - was my subscribed 7 Mbps. The tech did comment surprised this area had 10 available as he had just come from an area
where 1 was the fastest. I didn't say anything but definitely thinking
this is city, not rural, and 10 is slow.

So yes, might be good for you to consider switching to the wireless
company. I'd be checking the connectivity: decent during bad weather
(rain, snow). There are also satellite options -- I googled "Internet providers near me" and one hit was
www.HighSpeedInternet.com/ia/davenport -- so switch the locations.
Oddly didn't mention Metronet at all.

www.BroadbandSearch.com/service/iowa/davenport was the second hit and
they do list Metronet as well as a couple more providers.

BroadbandNow,com ... Etc.



¯ BarryMartin3@ ®
¯ @MyMetronet.NET ®

... What do cannibals make out of politicians? Bologna sandwiches.
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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!
>
> > > the Round TuIts, But Firsts, etc. You had given a link which
> > > suggested going in to the BIOS to disable the Marvell SATA ports and
> > KM> I did? :)
> > Sure; remember when you had amnesia?!
> KM> Is that what I forgot??
> We don't recall now...
KM> Wait, now we both have amnesia?
Maybe - what do we compare it to?

Why are you asking *me*??!

KM> You can look in the BIOS under ... I think it's under System
KM> Health -- and check the voltage in realtime. This (at least in my
KM> experience) will report what the board is using, not what the PSU
KM> is providing.

Yes, I've looked at that and appears normal: 5v a fraction under (4.97v IIRC), 12v a fraction over -- definitely within 1% as opposed to 10%.

Did you watch if it changed significantly under load?

> The motherboard is an ASUS M5A97 R2.0. Wandering the web have found
> others with the same problem. Stuff about "LLC" -- Load Line
> Calibration -- and "FSB" -- Front Side Bus ==> carry data between the
> central processing unit (CPU) and a memory controller hub, known as the
> northbridge.
KM> Huh. That's the AMD version of Silver's (Intel) board. Apparently
KM> we both have good taste. <g>

Of course! :) Guess the good news is even though different CPUs and the assosicated design differences what is applicable to one is probably applicable to the other. (And yes I did check to see if switching the A
to I was the 'trick' - nope!).

Oh, no, mine that has the bad Southbridge is an Asus P5B Deluxe (2008).
So far Silver's new board (2014) has, knock wood, no issues. But bad southbridge does seem to be kind of an Asus thing... hopefully yours
doesn't predict mine's future.

And I think the other P5B is starting to go, as I'm getting that popping "device plugged/unplugged" sound once in a while... another early
symptom. :(

KM> Yours:
KM> https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/M5A97_R20/overview/
KM> Mine:
KM> https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/P9X79_LE/overview/

Should have read ahead (on the Intel guess).

<primly> We do NOT *buy* AMD. <g>

Sort of got excited when scanned through the overview and came across
"check your PC in real time". I'm in "monitor the voltages" mode so interpreting that as seeing the voltages, temperatures, etc.; probably
is more like VNC or Remote Desktop.

I don't know what can monitor voltage from within linux.

KM> Bought Silver's used off eBay, CPU included... was the best
KM> sub-$200 option at the time, and haven't seen anything more
KM> exciting since in that price range. Now if only I'd finish moving
KM> computer so I could actually USE the thing...!!

Being able to use does tend to make a better investment. <gg> OTOH
having spare parts on hand isn't always a bad thing (no wait!)

Haha... having twin boards has been handy more than once. One dies, just
plug everything into the other and life goes on as before.

KM> Any voltage drop in the 5V lines might affect USB.

Agree, which is why I was sort of looking around and fiddling with
things like charging capabilities. OTOH would seem there should be more
of a correlation between which USB device cause the lockup. Seems like

Wasn't when mine was going... you wouldn't think a mouse dongle would
overtax it, but apparently it did. Didn't lock up but would simply Not Work.

a thumbdrive doesn't need all that much compared to a card reader or
external DVD or hard drive. And DC is constant, not like AC and I might
hit a low point. ...WAG

External HD or DVD usually has its own power supply.

Last few days was fiddling with a card reader (adapter) and a microSD
card. Same reader, same card, almost always the same port. Once, out
of maybe a dozen times (seemed like more!) the system locked up. Would
seem if the adapter was the trigger (too much current, USB connector
pins misaligned and shorting out, etc.) I would have more lockups.

If it's a power issue ... remember every time the system accesses a
drive or RAM or CPU for some other reason that draws more power.

Short usually doesn't lock up, rather it causes an instant reboot.

Had a machine that would randomly reboot. Realized it wasn't quite
random, but rather when someone walked by... Hmm. Turns out that with
even the slightest vibration, one of the naked metal pins that stick out
of the back of the motherboard was just barely contacting the metal
case. Instant short-out and reboot. Transplanted it to a different case; problem solved! (Still have that system, tho being of the socket7 era,
not real useful.)

(BTW, the problem wasn't with the hardware but the software. Issue was
the software is supposed to format the SD card. Yup: I was using a 64
GB card and so over that limit. Switched to a 32 GB card -- no
problems.)

Huh. What file format were you trying to use?

Keyboard and mouse on the USB 2.0 ports; my plug-ins are almost-always
on USB 3.0, usually front port.

Some systems will not recognize keyboard or mouse on the USB3 ports, at
least not during bootup. Both my "new" boxen have USB2 ports labeled specifically for these devices.

An this is probably nothing: during boot my powered USB 3.0 hub will be
on (port indicators), off for a second or so, and then back on. Don't
know if blinks or anything when a system lockup occurs as the hub is
behind me when I plug something into the front panel. Also not
recalling if the LEDs are on during a lockup.

No idea. One of mine has power on/off LEDs and switches for each port;
the other has noting but a powered-on LED for the whole device.

KM> Discovered another problem, tho -- Tarnish (old Silver) had 4GB
KM> RAM because WinXP 32bit can't use more than that anyway (and it
KM> was what was handy at the time). Tried to give it 8GB since it's
KM> now hosting PCLOS, which benefits from more RAM. WOULD NOT BOOT!
KM> Guessing it's the same issue -- added power draw was too much for
KM> the defective circuit.

Might be a motherboard issue.

Ya think? this is the same board with the USB low voltage issue!!

I have a Lenovo desktop and it is
supposed to take 8 GB (4x 2GB) but ugh-ugh: 2+2+1+1 is its max. And
not the single-sided vs. double-sided issue as played with that.

Which Lenovo board is that?

KM> Ah, well... when I get completely moved into New Silver, Cash can
KM> have its old job back (secondary PCLOS streaming box) and Tarnish
KM> can run ReactOS (which runs well on Tarnish, and doesn't like it
KM> when there's more than 4GB RAM anyway).

Sounds like winter projects!

At least, after the baseball season. <g>

> Right: should keep the games and political ideologies separate.
KM> Yeah. It's been slow to penetrate baseball, and each spasm of
KM> Stupid has tended to quickly peter out, but when there's so much
KM> top-down Thou Shalting... hopefully this crap will die down
KM> everywhere without devolving into civil war. :(

Dad had his "Pendulum Theory": society's mindset swings back and forth, compbined with what is good for one group is bad for another.

Yep, there is that.

Hard times create strong men.
Strong men create good times.
Good times create weak men.
Weak men create hard times.
― G. Michael Hopf, Those Who Remain

KM> Did I gripe about CenturyLink yet? they changed my loop -- it got
KM> shorter, but my connection went from stable 5Mbps to unstable
KM> 4Mpbs, and am told by their now worthless tech support that it
KM> sucks to be me. One of the fixed wireless companies is now almost
KM> competitive price for faster connection... might have to switch.

It almost seems like CenturyLink is setting themselves up to fail. When

They don't seem to want customers anymore, that's for sure...

Think I told you, or at least posted, a few months ago had a line noise (telephone) issue -- when that fixed I 'casually' asked to verify the
DSL speed before leaving - was my subscribed 7 Mbps. The tech did comment surprised this area had 10 available as he had just come from an area
where 1 was the fastest. I didn't say anything but definitely thinking
this is city, not rural, and 10 is slow.

Egads... I did find the phone number for the local tech, assuming the
number still goes anywhere useful.. need to get around to calling him.

So yes, might be good for you to consider switching to the wireless
company. I'd be checking the connectivity: decent during bad weather

Had fixed wireless in SoCal and it was really spotty in anything that
looked like weather. Had fixed wireless in Clarkston MT and it was solid
even during a blizzard. One could hope the equipment is getting better,
but it's still strictly line of sight.

(rain, snow). There are also satellite options

Satellite has really nasty data caps, starting at 3GB/month, then you
pay an outrageous amount per GB or get limited to dialup speed. I easily
use 3GB in an average DAY. Satellite is not an option.

providers near me" and one hit was
www.HighSpeedInternet.com/ia/davenport -- so switch the locations.
Oddly didn't mention Metronet at all.

Companies pay to be listed on those sites. It's more a mark of
aggressive marketing than of availability. Where my sister is, these
sites have a dozen providers listed. Guess how many actually service her
area? One.
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Hi Ky!

> > > the Round TuIts, But Firsts, etc. You had given a link which
> > > suggested going in to the BIOS to disable the Marvell SATA ports
> > KM> I did? :)
> > Sure; remember when you had amnesia?!
> KM> Is that what I forgot??
> We don't recall now...
KM> Wait, now we both have amnesia?
Maybe - what do we compare it to?

Why are you asking *me*??!

You were handy. :)

KM> You can look in the BIOS under ... I think it's under System
KM> Health -- and check the voltage in realtime. This (at least in my
KM> experience) will report what the board is using, not what the PSU
KM> is providing.
Yes, I've looked at that and appears normal: 5v a fraction under (4.97v IIRC), 12v a fraction over -- definitely within 1% as opposed to 10%.

Did you watch if it changed significantly under load?

Uh, no. Never really occured to me! ...So far just verified without a
change in load the voltage didn't alter significantly, which correlates
100% with the system doesn't lock up as long as no new USB device is
plugged in!

> The motherboard is an ASUS M5A97 R2.0. Wandering the web have found
> others with the same problem. Stuff about "LLC" -- Load Line
> Calibration -- and "FSB" -- Front Side Bus ==> carry data between the
> central processing unit (CPU) and a memory controller hub, known as the
> northbridge.
KM> Huh. That's the AMD version of Silver's (Intel) board. Apparently
KM> we both have good taste. <g>
Of course! :) Guess the good news is even though different CPUs and the assocoated design differences what is applicable to one is probably applicable to the other. (And yes I did check to see if switching the A
to I was the 'trick' - nope!).

Oh, no, mine that has the bad Southbridge is an Asus P5B Deluxe
(2008). So far Silver's new board (2014) has, knock wood, no
issues. But bad southbridge does seem to be kind of an Asus
thing... hopefully yours doesn't predict mine's future.

Wonder if the Asus engineers used basically the same circuit design over
the years -- it works, why change? Or went with cheaper components -- a
half cent adds up after not too long!

And I think the other P5B is starting to go, as I'm getting that
popping "device plugged/unplugged" sound once in a while...
another early symptom. :(

That's one thing I haven't heard: the popping noise. Something from the board/BIOS Beep Speaker (piezo) or audio speakers or ...?? I was
initially thinking the capacitor was leaking and popped.

KM> Yours:
KM> https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/M5A97_R20/overview/
KM> Mine:
KM> https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/P9X79_LE/overview/
Should have read ahead (on the Intel guess).

<primly> We do NOT *buy* AMD. <g>

I should not have bought AMD! Was an old rule of mine, don't recall
when I decided to try.

Sort of got excited when scanned through the overview and came across
"check your PC in real time". I'm in "monitor the voltages" mode so interpreting that as seeing the voltages, temperatures, etc.; probably
is more like VNC or Remote Desktop.

I don't know what can monitor voltage from within linux.

Installing 'lm-sensors' then running 'sensors' or 'watch sensors' at
Terminal. "watch sensors" wil update every two seconds. Powewr seems rock-stable:
+12v +12.05v
+ 5v + 5.01v (though as I typed that saw it dip to 4.99 for
one display cycle)

Then I noticed something: Vcore: +1.27v (min = +2.98 v, max = +2.23
v). Waitaminute: the minimum is more than the maximum! (No, that
wasn't a typo.) Chart's got a couple of other references backwards for
the GPU and CPU.

KM> Bought Silver's used off eBay, CPU included... was the best
KM> sub-$200 option at the time, and haven't seen anything more
KM> exciting since in that price range. Now if only I'd finish moving
KM> computer so I could actually USE the thing...!!
Being able to use does tend to make a better investment. <gg> OTOH
having spare parts on hand isn't always a bad thing (no wait!)

Haha... having twin boards has been handy more than once. One
dies, just plug everything into the other and life goes on as
before.

Yes, does tend to make repairs easier! Of course the problem is after a
while run out of the duplicate parts. Cannibalizing does have
advantages, though upgrading isn't one. <g>

KM> Any voltage drop in the 5V lines might affect USB.
Agree, which is why I was sort of looking around and fiddling with
things like charging capabilities. OTOH would seem there should be more
of a correlation between which USB device cause the lockup. Seems like

Wasn't when mine was going... you wouldn't think a mouse dongle
would overtax it, but apparently it did. Didn't lock up but would
simply Not Work.

I'm thinking along those lines too: it seems more the act of plugging in
is the trigger as opposed to the electrical draw. LIS the other day, I plugged in the same card reader (and SD card) numerous times and only
once did it cause a lock up. Doesn't help either arguement: same USB
thing being plugged in, so seems should always/usually work or not work.

a thumbdrive doesn't need all that much compared to a card reader or external DVD or hard drive. And DC is constant, not like AC and I might
hit a low point. ...WAG

External HD or DVD usually has its own power supply.

Right. And to extend I have an external USB 3.0 hub, so external power source, and it does the same maybe-I'll-lock-up-maybe-I-won't thing when
a device is plugged in, which is why I'm leaning towards data rather
than voltage as the trigger.

Last few days was fiddling with a card reader (adapter) and a microSD
card. Same reader, same card, almost always the same port. Once, out
of maybe a dozen times (seemed like more!) the system locked up. Would
seem if the adapter was the trigger (too much current, USB connector
pins misaligned and shorting out, etc.) I would have more lockups.

If it's a power issue ... remember every time the system accesses
a drive or RAM or CPU for some other reason that draws more
power.

Right -- tons of variables! USB --> Southbridge --> CPU. Plus the
components in between (thinking 'transisitor' just to keep simple', plus
if there's a voltage/current spike or dip it affects whatever else is
being supplied by that line.

Short usually doesn't lock up, rather it causes an instant
reboot.

Guess that pretty much excludes the problem being a short, or short
duration high current draw episode! (Isn't a true short but like a
motor which dims the lights when it starts.)

Had a machine that would randomly reboot. Realized it wasn't
quite random, but rather when someone walked by... Hmm. Turns out
that with even the slightest vibration, one of the naked metal
pins that stick out of the back of the motherboard was just
barely contacting the metal case. Instant short-out and reboot. Transplanted it to a different case; problem solved! (Still have
that system, tho being of the socket7 era, not real useful.)

Reminds me of the Heathkit GR-300 TV I built: just sitting there, SNAP!
and shuts off. HVPS board would arc to the chassis. First solution to
mind: round off solder pad points. Helped, but not completely.
Eventually glued a rubber pad on the chassis under the board -- solved!
Well, not a true solution but stopped the problem.

(BTW, the problem wasn't with the hardware but the software. Issue was
the software is supposed to format the SD card. Yup: I was using a 64
GB card and so over that limit. Switched to a 32 GB card -- no
problems.)

Huh. What file format were you trying to use?

Default/FAT32/something else. In this specific case I don't think it's
the format but the software/utility: MotionEye. Seems to have problems
if the card is larger than 32 GB (so 64), current and prior versions.
I'm not the only one but of course now can't find anything to support. Current creation: the command line to copy the image, auto-install the
static address, WiFi, etc., is rather long so I have a template on file
and copy that to Terminal. Several attempts with the 64 GB card, one
with the 32.

Keyboard and mouse on the USB 2.0 ports; my plug-ins are almost-always
on USB 3.0, usually front port.

Some systems will not recognize keyboard or mouse on the USB3
ports, at least not during bootup. Both my "new" boxen have USB2
ports labeled specifically for these devices.

Right: I remember having an old prebuilt system I purchased cheap from
the store. It either wouldn't boot or not detect the keyboard and mouse
if in the 'wrong' USB ports. Trouble is, that detail wasn't printed on
the rear panel and only casually indicated on the pictoral User Guide.
If looked at the picture quickly appeared to say 'plug in in this area'
but if looked closely was to specific ports. I did test: plug in the
keyboard and mouse where specified by the drawing, worked; reverse or
any place else, nope.

An this is probably nothing: during boot my powered USB 3.0 hub will be
on (port indicators), off for a second or so, and then back on. Don't
know if blinks or anything when a system lockup occurs as the hub is
behind me when I plug something into the front panel. Also not
recalling if the LEDs are on during a lockup.

No idea. One of mine has power on/off LEDs and switches for each
port; the other has noting but a powered-on LED for the whole
device.

OK - just putting stuff out there. Wouldn't be the first time I've
done "oh! it's not supposed to work that way?!".

KM> Discovered another problem, tho -- Tarnish (old Silver) had 4GB
KM> RAM because WinXP 32bit can't use more than that anyway (and it
KM> was what was handy at the time). Tried to give it 8GB since it's
KM> now hosting PCLOS, which benefits from more RAM. WOULD NOT BOOT!
KM> Guessing it's the same issue -- added power draw was too much for
KM> the defective circuit.
Might be a motherboard issue.

Ya think? this is the same board with the USB low voltage issue!!

I'm starting to see a pattern! <g> ...Brilliant thought: PSU issue??

I have a Lenovo desktop and it is
supposed to take 8 GB (4x 2GB) but ugh-ugh: 2+2+1+1 is its max. And
not the single-sided vs. double-sided issue as played with that.

Which Lenovo board is that?

M51-8141 KNB. ...Well that's weird: checked another file and it says it
only takes 4 GB and has two slots. Definately has four slots. Maybe I
have the wrong card in it? (It and a couple others are currently being stored.)

KM> Ah, well... when I get completely moved into New Silver, Cash can
KM> have its old job back (secondary PCLOS streaming box) and Tarnish
KM> can run ReactOS (which runs well on Tarnish, and doesn't like it
KM> when there's more than 4GB RAM anyway).
Sounds like winter projects!

At least, after the baseball season. <g>

But now they're showing reruns!

> Right: should keep the games and political ideologies separate.
KM> Yeah. It's been slow to penetrate baseball, and each spasm of
KM> Stupid has tended to quickly peter out, but when there's so much
KM> top-down Thou Shalting... hopefully this crap will die down
KM> everywhere without devolving into civil war. :(
Dad had his "Pendulum Theory": society's mindset swings back and forth, compbined with what is good for one group is bad for another.

Yep, there is that.
Hard times create strong men.
Strong men create good times.
Good times create weak men.
Weak men create hard times.
― G. Michael Hopf, Those Who Remain

Yup: goes right along.

KM> Did I gripe about CenturyLink yet? they changed my loop -- it got
KM> shorter, but my connection went from stable 5Mbps to unstable
KM> 4Mpbs, and am told by their now worthless tech support that it
KM> sucks to be me. One of the fixed wireless companies is now almost
KM> competitive price for faster connection... might have to switch.
It almost seems like CenturyLink is setting themselves up to fail. When

They don't seem to want customers anymore, that's for sure...

That had been pretty much my thought for several years. It seemed like
they weren't making much of an effort to combat Mediacom (cable) around
here. Sure, CenturyLink is more telephone service with Internet and television as additional services and Mediacom more TV with Internet and telephone as additional but seems the average consumer looks at the
three options as one, or at least best bang for the buck.

And there have been fiber optic 'noises' for years. Some time ago the
City of Bettendorf was considering offering free WiFi (so Internet) and
then that faded and a bit later Metronet (fiber optic connection) made
its bid to provide service to Davenport and Bettendorf. To me it would
seem that should have shaken-awake CenturyLink: "hey, we're going to
loose customers! That's income!" but AFAICT they just kept snoozing.
Mediacom (cable) did (and continues to) actively upgrade their services
and offer some rather attractive come-on pricings.

Think I told you, or at least posted, a few months ago had a line noise (telephone) issue -- when that fixed I 'casually' asked to verify the
DSL speed before leaving - was my subscribed 7 Mbps. The tech did comment surprised this area had 10 available as he had just come from an area
where 1 was the fastest. I didn't say anything but definitely thinking
this is city, not rural, and 10 is slow.

Egads... I did find the phone number for the local tech, assuming
the number still goes anywhere useful.. need to get around to
calling him.

May or may not be useful. Last Spring called CenturyLink because of a
very noisy and then loss of voice telephone (oddly DSL seemed
reasonable). Two or three loose wires were found by the technician,
whom I considered excellent: spent the time to track down and fix, plus
was pleasant. Unfortunately he travelled the country -- had just come
from Hawaii (!) and was going somewhere towards the East Coast next.

So yes, might be good for you to consider switching to the wireless
company. I'd be checking the connectivity: decent during bad weather

Had fixed wireless in SoCal and it was really spotty in anything
that looked like weather. Had fixed wireless in Clarkston MT and
it was solid even during a blizzard. One could hope the equipment
is getting better, but it's still strictly line of sight.

And of course you don't know how good (or bad) it will be until after the installation. Any correlation to your cell phone service?

(rain, snow). There are also satellite options

Satellite has really nasty data caps, starting at 3GB/month, then
you pay an outrageous amount per GB or get limited to dialup
speed. I easily use 3GB in an average DAY. Satellite is not an
option.

I guess not!

providers near me" and one hit was
www.HighSpeedInternet.com/ia/davenport -- so switch the locations.
Oddly didn't mention Metronet at all.

Companies pay to be listed on those sites. It's more a mark of
aggressive marketing than of availability. Where my sister is,
these sites have a dozen providers listed. Guess how many
actually service her area? One.

Kind of figured there was some marketing involved as opposed to truth.



¯ BarryMartin3@ ®
¯ @MyMetronet.NET ®

... I have preferences.
You have biases.
He/She has prejudices.
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47
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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

> > > > the Round TuIts, But Firsts, etc. You had given a link which
> > > > suggested going in to the BIOS to disable the Marvell SATA ports
> > > KM> I did? :)
> > > Sure; remember when you had amnesia?!
> > KM> Is that what I forgot??
> > We don't recall now...
> KM> Wait, now we both have amnesia?
> Maybe - what do we compare it to?
KM> Why are you asking *me*??!
You were handy. :)

But I'm way over here!

[BIOS report]

KM> Did you watch if it changed significantly under load?

Uh, no. Never really occured to me! ...So far just verified without a change in load the voltage didn't alter significantly, which correlates
100% with the system doesn't lock up as long as no new USB device is
plugged in!

D'oh!!

KM> Oh, no, mine that has the bad Southbridge is an Asus P5B Deluxe
KM> (2008). So far Silver's new board (2014) has, knock wood, no
KM> issues. But bad southbridge does seem to be kind of an Asus
KM> thing... hopefully yours doesn't predict mine's future.

Wonder if the Asus engineers used basically the same circuit design over
the years -- it works, why change? Or went with cheaper components -- a
half cent adds up after not too long!

Sounds like it, actually. Similar problems reported across about a ten
year span (went I went looking, found it was a broadly-distributed
complaint).

First Asus-vs-USB I've any experience of was in Double Vision, an Asus
A8N-SLI (2006; AMD socket939). Supposedly USB2, but during boot it can
only do USB1. Eventually USB stopped working entirely.

That's the one with the Athlon 64 3200+ 2.2GHz ... supposedly a 64bit
CPU, but has AMD's not-true-64bit bug. (At least they're consistent; I remember when the K6-2 had a not-true-32bit bug. Known issue and they
shipped 'em anyway.) Having got the attention of the retro-gaming crowd, Socket939 CPUs are still quite expensive to upgrade, so since this
system was rapidly superceded by newer and better, I never did... and
just as well, because guess what -- it's recently blown several
capacitors. Anyone care to guess whether they're associated with the southbridge chip??


Ya know, there might be a reason why I kinda prefer MSI boards... beyond
their feature set. But weren't any in the price range at the time... and Silver's new board at least was from the higher end of things... well, hopefully it'll be lucky, and outlast its poor relations.

KM> And I think the other P5B is starting to go, as I'm getting that
KM> popping "device plugged/unplugged" sound once in a while...
KM> another early symptom. :(

That's one thing I haven't heard: the popping noise. Something from the board/BIOS Beep Speaker (piezo) or audio speakers or ...?? I was
initially thinking the capacitor was leaking and popped.

No, this is the Windows device found/not-found sound. the little POP
sound it does when a device fails to register properly, or unplugs itself.

> KM> Yours:
> KM> https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/M5A97_R20/overview/
> KM> Mine:
> KM> https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/P9X79_LE/overview/
> Should have read ahead (on the Intel guess).
KM> <primly> We do NOT *buy* AMD. <g>

I should not have bought AMD! Was an old rule of mine, don't recall
when I decided to try.

Ooops. :) I got cured of paying for AMD over 20 years ago (see the aforementioned K6-2 debacle; this was the socket7 era!) and have seen no reason to regret that decision. Quite the contrary... Have been seeing
all manner of complaints about Ryzen CPUs, nothing consistent but kinda
looks like rushed-to-market. Wait a year and buy the equivalent Intel
CPU (after the price comes down) and be happy for years instead.

> Sort of got excited when scanned through the overview and came across
> "check your PC in real time". I'm in "monitor the voltages" mode so
> interpreting that as seeing the voltages, temperatures, etc.; probably
> is more like VNC or Remote Desktop.

Wait, tell me about VNC?

KM> I don't know what can monitor voltage from within linux.

Installing 'lm-sensors' then running 'sensors' or 'watch sensors' at Terminal. "watch sensors" wil update every two seconds. Powewr seems rock-stable:
+12v +12.05v
+ 5v + 5.01v (though as I typed that saw it dip to 4.99 for
one display cycle)

What you don't want to see is dips and spikes for no reason...

Then I noticed something: Vcore: +1.27v (min = +2.98 v, max = +2.23
v). Waitaminute: the minimum is more than the maximum! (No, that
wasn't a typo.) Chart's got a couple of other references backwards for
the GPU and CPU.

Whoops...

KM> Haha... having twin boards has been handy more than once. One
KM> dies, just plug everything into the other and life goes on as
KM> before.

Yes, does tend to make repairs easier! Of course the problem is after a while run out of the duplicate parts. Cannibalizing does have
advantages, though upgrading isn't one. <g>

This is a minor difficulty. <g>

KM> Wasn't when mine was going... you wouldn't think a mouse dongle
KM> would overtax it, but apparently it did. Didn't lock up but would
KM> simply Not Work.

I'm thinking along those lines too: it seems more the act of plugging in
is the trigger as opposed to the electrical draw. LIS the other day, I

Same as one too many HDs would do to a marginal PSU -- it wasn't the
running draw, it was the startup draw that would make one HD play dead.
Or why staggered startup evolved in the first place.

plugged in the same card reader (and SD card) numerous times and only
once did it cause a lock up. Doesn't help either arguement: same USB
thing being plugged in, so seems should always/usually work or not work.

Too many variables in a complete system.

Right. And to extend I have an external USB 3.0 hub, so external power source, and it does the same maybe-I'll-lock-up-maybe-I-won't thing when
a device is plugged in, which is why I'm leaning towards data rather
than voltage as the trigger.

And data is what the Southbridge handles... yeah, I saw the same thing
with my misbehaving beast. Seemed to be data was the trigger, but data requires voltage to move...

KM> Short usually doesn't lock up, rather it causes an instant
KM> reboot.

Guess that pretty much excludes the problem being a short, or short
duration high current draw episode! (Isn't a true short but like a
motor which dims the lights when it starts.)

This was one reason I decided to cannibalize the server rather than try
to use it... every time I'd power up, it brought to mind Frank Hayes...

And when it's all assembled there's computer to your collar
It's nice to have a micro but a mainframe would be smaller
And when they turn the power on, it's sure to dim the lamps
At plus and minus sixteen volts and fourteen hundred amps!

Ah! Found it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow78cUDdTOg

Reminds me of the Heathkit GR-300 TV I built: just sitting there, SNAP!
and shuts off. HVPS board would arc to the chassis. First solution to
mind: round off solder pad points. Helped, but not completely.
Eventually glued a rubber pad on the chassis under the board -- solved!
Well, not a true solution but stopped the problem.

Sounds like a solution to me! :D With mine originally I put some tape
over the spot, but when a better case came along -- transplanted!

> (BTW, the problem wasn't with the hardware but the software. Issue was
> the software is supposed to format the SD card. Yup: I was using a 64
> GB card and so over that limit. Switched to a 32 GB card -- no
> problems.)
KM> Huh. What file format were you trying to use?

Default/FAT32/something else. In this specific case I don't think it's
the format but the software/utility: MotionEye. Seems to have problems
if the card is larger than 32 GB (so 64), current and prior versions.

Um, no. With FAT32 the SAFE limit is 32GB, which is why original FDISK
was limited to 32GB for FAT32 disks. Yeah, later versions of FDISK could
do 64GB, but this was a Bad Idea from someone evidently not fully in the
know, because there's a known bug (or if you prefer, limitation) in
FAT32: if the partition is larger than 32GB, as soon as data crosses
that 32GB barrier (either in total, or just getting written that far out
on the disk) FAT32 starts eating files, in a manner that looks a lot
like a disk failure.

I personally experienced this, so went looking, and found Microsoft's
original documentation on the problem. (Which vanished when they nuked
all the old support files.)

So if you are trying to make a FAT32 partition larger than 32GB, and
your software refuses -- it's just trying to save your sorry butt.

exFAT (Extended FAT, commonly used on flash drives) is a different
filesystem entirely, more like NTFS without the journaling overhead (and without the allocation table redundancy, so if it fails, there's no
recovery). Older Windows needs a patch to see exFAT. It can be used on
Really Big Disks. I usually reformat 'em NTFS so everything can see it
without any hoop jumping.

Of course FAT32 also has a filesize limit of about 4GB. NTFS and exFAT
have no such limit.

I'm not the only one but of course now can't find anything to support. Current creation: the command line to copy the image, auto-install the
static address, WiFi, etc., is rather long so I have a template on file
and copy that to Terminal. Several attempts with the 64 GB card, one
with the 32.

See above....

KM> Ya think? this is the same board with the USB low voltage issue!!

I'm starting to see a pattern! <g> ...Brilliant thought: PSU issue??

What brand is the PSU? Have you put it on a voltage tester? (one that
shows voltage for each line, not just a good/bad LED.) I've become an
Enermax bigot because those are the only ones I've tested that have
consistent voltage without sags or spikes. And about half or 2/3rds of
my stash that passed the good/bad tester... got nixed by the one that
shows actual voltage. Best $15 I ever spent. Especially since a couple
of the supposedly-good were spiking bad enough to kill components.

The other reason I've become an Enermax bigot (tho I buy the old ones
from when they were still 100% vertical) is that I've only had one die,
and it had somewhere high of 20 years 24/7/365 under its belt. (And
lordy, the size of the capacitors and heatsinks in there... capacitors
the size of your thumb. No wonder they don't sag.)

KM> Which Lenovo board is that?

M51-8141 KNB. ...Well that's weird: checked another file and it says it
only takes 4 GB and has two slots. Definately has four slots. Maybe I
have the wrong card in it? (It and a couple others are currently being stored.)

From what I can find, an M51 Thinkcentre (made in 2005 for WinXP) only supports a 32bit CPU, or at least that's what it shipped with, so would
max out at 4GB RAM regardless of however many slots. But it's socket775,
so you'd think would support at least early x64 CPUs?? What exactly CPU
is in it?

https://www.cnet.com/products/thinkcentre-m51/

https://www.cpu-upgrade.com/mb-Intel_%28chipsets%29/915G_Express.html

Hmm, nope, all the CPUs that chipset supports are 32bit. So 4GB is the
max RAM. But being kinda on the cusp of the Next Great Leap Forward, it
might have some rudimentary ability to SEE, if not properly USE, more
RAM. But the CPU can't address it anyway, unless you LIKE data
corruption. Four slots probably means at the time 4x1GB sticks were significantly cheaper than 2x2GB sticks. (They probably all have the
four slots in the PCB, just not the external part soldered on.)

Lenovo seems to have some funny ideas about its own products... frex
that RMA'd dual CPU board I got back as "refused"?? Lenovo support guy
swears up and down it's not theirs, and he worked on developing the D20
line so he knows! BUT when I plug the model number into Lenovo search,
guess what, up comes the D20. Which it doesn't look like... but BIOS
(when it had one CPU, thus before it PFFZT'd) said it IS a Lenovo D20.
Must be some hands that never shook other hands, is all I can think.

I can't find the M51 on their site at all. Closest is the M53.

> KM> Ah, well... when I get completely moved into New Silver, Cash can
> KM> have its old job back (secondary PCLOS streaming box) and Tarnish
> KM> can run ReactOS (which runs well on Tarnish, and doesn't like it
> KM> when there's more than 4GB RAM anyway).
> Sounds like winter projects!
KM> At least, after the baseball season. <g>

But now they're showing reruns!

Not yet!

> It almost seems like CenturyLink is setting themselves up to fail. When
KM> They don't seem to want customers anymore, that's for sure...

That had been pretty much my thought for several years. It seemed like
they weren't making much of an effort to combat Mediacom (cable) around
here. Sure, CenturyLink is more telephone service with Internet and television as additional services and Mediacom more TV with Internet and telephone as additional but seems the average consumer looks at the
three options as one, or at least best bang for the buck.

Or so they've been taught to do by the cable/media/phone companies.

And there have been fiber optic 'noises' for years. Some time ago the

I have fiber right across the road, laid when Montana Power got sucked
into Enron's scam (I won't say suckered, cuz MP execs were in on it as
their exit strategy). 200 feet away and might as well be on Mars. You
can actually see this stretch (well, a couple miles down the road) being
laid in the Montana Power Debacle documentary on PBS. So they have fiber
down at the casino at the next wide spot in the road, but not here.

City of Bettendorf was considering offering free WiFi (so Internet) and
then that faded and a bit later Metronet (fiber optic connection) made
its bid to provide service to Davenport and Bettendorf. To me it would
seem that should have shaken-awake CenturyLink: "hey, we're going to
loose customers! That's income!" but AFAICT they just kept snoozing.
Mediacom (cable) did (and continues to) actively upgrade their services
and offer some rather attractive come-on pricings.

I think a lot of 'em are in exit strategy mode and don't want to
increase stock value beyond what some other corp might be willing to pay
to snatch 'em up.

KM> Egads... I did find the phone number for the local tech, assuming
KM> the number still goes anywhere useful.. need to get around to
KM> calling him.

May or may not be useful. Last Spring called CenturyLink because of a

He's good... knows his stuff and is thorough.. but he's also not in some
damn call center.

Have a friend who worked in an EDS call center for about a year. Thought
he'd died and gone to hell. It was all about being useless enough to
keep people on the line longer so EDS could charge overtime to HP. For
this precise purpose they'd actually designed the support setup so it
was impossible to get any support call done in the mandated time. You
gotta wonder who at HP got kickbacks to look the other way over what was flamingly obvious to anyone with half a brain. Or, why call centers
prefer to hire dumb people.

very noisy and then loss of voice telephone (oddly DSL seemed
reasonable). Two or three loose wires were found by the technician,
whom I considered excellent: spent the time to track down and fix, plus
was pleasant. Unfortunately he travelled the country -- had just come
from Hawaii (!) and was going somewhere towards the East Coast next.

Didn't know they had traveling salesmen!

> So yes, might be good for you to consider switching to the wireless
> company. I'd be checking the connectivity: decent during bad weather
KM> Had fixed wireless in SoCal and it was really spotty in anything
KM> that looked like weather. Had fixed wireless in Clarkston MT and
KM> it was solid even during a blizzard. One could hope the equipment
KM> is getting better, but it's still strictly line of sight.

And of course you don't know how good (or bad) it will be until after the installation. Any correlation to your cell phone service?

Nope, tho their radio may live on the same tower. Hey, put a tower on my
hill, pretty please!!
þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Hollywood, Ca þ www.techware2k.com

--- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462
* Origin: ILink: CFBBS | cfbbs.no-ip.com | 856-933-7096 (454:1/1)

Hi Ky!

> > > Sure; remember when you had amnesia?!
> > KM> Is that what I forgot??
> > We don't recall now...
> KM> Wait, now we both have amnesia?
> Maybe - what do we compare it to?
KM> Why are you asking *me*??!
You were handy. :)

But I'm way over here!

Physically -- who knows where your mind is!!

[BIOS report]

KM> Did you watch if it changed significantly under load?
Uh, no. Never really occured to me! ...So far just verified without a change in load the voltage didn't alter significantly, which correlates
100% with the system doesn't lock up as long as no new USB device is
plugged in!

D'oh!!

<chuckle> There are those times when the simple and obvious is
overlooked! Did find the comand 'watch sensors' which will rerun the
sensors command every two seconds, Essentially overlays the new data as
I don't see a scroll; at first I didn't think it was working as nothing changed, then I noticed the fan speed changed. What's a little bit
better is 'watch -n 1 -d sensors'. This one updates every second and
the differences are highlighted.

Played a bit with a thumbrive last night: no lockups and no voltage spikes/dips ... caught! One second is an awfully long time! Don't know
if can change the time to less than a second, plus need to log. Will
continue fiddling with that later.

KM> Oh, no, mine that has the bad Southbridge is an Asus P5B Deluxe
KM> (2008). So far Silver's new board (2014) has, knock wood, no
KM> issues. But bad southbridge does seem to be kind of an Asus
KM> thing... hopefully yours doesn't predict mine's future.
Wonder if the Asus engineers used basically the same circuit design over
the years -- it works, why change? Or went with cheaper components -- a half cent adds up after not too long!

Sounds like it, actually. Similar problems reported across about
a ten year span (went I went looking, found it was a
broadly-distributed complaint).

Hmmm: one would think after that length of time.... Could see if was
like the bad filter cap issue.

First Asus-vs-USB I've any experience of was in Double Vision, an
Asus A8N-SLI (2006; AMD socket939). Supposedly USB2, but during
boot it can only do USB1. Eventually USB stopped working
entirely.

(Thinking numerous semi-random options, trouble is I don't know enough
on how the electronics works. Up until a day or two ago it sounded like
a good work-around to stick in a PCI(e) USB card to bypass.)

That's the one with the Athlon 64 3200+ 2.2GHz ... supposedly a
64bit CPU, but has AMD's not-true-64bit bug. (At least they're
consistent; I remember when the K6-2 had a not-true-32bit bug.
Known issue and they shipped 'em anyway.) Having got the
attention of the retro-gaming crowd, Socket939 CPUs are still
quite expensive to upgrade, so since this system was rapidly
superceded by newer and better, I never did... and just as well,
because guess what -- it's recently blown several capacitors.
Anyone care to guess whether they're associated with the
southbridge chip??

Oo! Oo! Oo! Pick me! Pick meeee! <waving hand wildly>

Ya know, there might be a reason why I kinda prefer MSI boards...
beyond their feature set. But weren't any in the price range at
the time... and Silver's new board at least was from the higher
end of things... well, hopefully it'll be lucky, and outlast its
poor relations.

With the USB issue part of me is thinking 'dump the Asus board' on this computer and then the Scottish Guy in me says the board is perfectly
good except for that Southbridge issue. Worthwhile as an NAS? Seems to
be fine as long as don't touch USB, and even then if plug in a USB
device and it does lock up seems to be fine on reboot (the USB device
is connected at boot). OTOH talk abouit overkill: eight core CPU. And
could swap for a single core but AMD and the new mothboard would want
Intel.

KM> And I think the other P5B is starting to go, as I'm getting that
KM> popping "device plugged/unplugged" sound once in a while...
KM> another early symptom. :(
That's one thing I haven't heard: the popping noise. Something from the board/BIOS Beep Speaker (piezo) or audio speakers or ...?? I was
initially thinking the capacitor was leaking and popped.

No, this is the Windows device found/not-found sound. the little
POP sound it does when a device fails to register properly, or
unplugs itself.

OK, that makes more sense. Haven't played with Windows for some time so loosing familiarity with it. Plus Ubuntu not making any noises (though
the one downstairs sometimes does).

> KM> Yours:
> KM> https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/M5A97_R20/overview/
> KM> Mine:
> KM> https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/P9X79_LE/overview/
> Should have read ahead (on the Intel guess).
KM> <primly> We do NOT *buy* AMD. <g>
I should not have bought AMD! Was an old rule of mine, don't recall
when I decided to try.

Ooops. :) I got cured of paying for AMD over 20 years ago (see
the aforementioned K6-2 debacle; this was the socket7 era!) and
have seen no reason to regret that decision. Quite the
contrary... Have been seeing all manner of complaints about Ryzen
CPUs, nothing consistent but kinda looks like rushed-to-market.
Wait a year and buy the equivalent Intel CPU (after the price
comes down) and be happy for years instead.

Yes, LIS in another message, I've had other AMD computers around here
but they were all 'minor players': primary role as Frontend to the
MythTV system and do essentially dedicated. Something USB plugged in --
rare. Plus the Linux community seemed to have 'accepted' AMD, or at
least to the point would install. Didn't really cover any USB issues,
which is more a fault of the hardware and not OS nor software.

> Sort of got excited when scanned through the overview and came across
> "check your PC in real time". I'm in "monitor the voltages" mode so
> interpreting that as seeing the voltages, temperatures, etc.; probably
> is more like VNC or Remote Desktop.

Wait, tell me about VNC?

Once upon a time... <g> VNC (www.realvnc.com) will remotely view and
control another computer. For instance, I have a Raspberry Pi stuck
behind a TV I use as a Frontend (MythTV) but without keyboard or mouse attached, only use the TV's remote for a few basic functions. Any
keyboarding it's easier for me to be up here in the Computer Room and
connect to the RPi via VNC, Can do updates, reboot (and will reconnect
unless drastically change something). ...Have gone into the RPi's
MythTV from up here to add/update/check on a TV programme even though
the MythTV Backend computer is about ten feet behind me(!) - just easier
to access that way.

Don't want to watch a programme via VNC: significant buffering. Could
be due to the RPi being WiFi, insufficient CPU/GPU settings, something.
I don't intend to watch TV that way. OTOH I have seen similar buffering
on video conferencing so not unique to me.

KM> I don't know what can monitor voltage from within linux.
Installing 'lm-sensors' then running 'sensors' or 'watch sensors' at Terminal. "watch sensors" wil update every two seconds. Powewr seems rock-stable:
+12v +12.05v
+ 5v + 5.01v (though as I typed that saw it dip to 4.99 for
one display cycle)

What you don't want to see is dips and spikes for no reason...

Right. Without any hardware changes (add/remove thumbdrive) the
voltages seem to be stable. Like I indicated above have gone to
updating once a second and the voltages appear to be stable. Worst seem
to be the 5v bus dipping to 4.99 volts. Doubt if would even notice if
that was being reported by an analog meter on the 10 Volt scale!

Then I noticed something: Vcore: +1.27v (min = +2.98 v, max = +2.23
v). Waitaminute: the minimum is more than the maximum! (No, that
wasn't a typo.) Chart's got a couple of other references backwards for
the GPU and CPU.

Whoops...

Whoops onthe minimum being higher than the maximum or the reported value
being below either value? Did do a little research: low is good and the voltage being supplied to the CPU core(s) will vary on load. Lately
Vcore has been around 0.90v, with 'spikes' to 1.30v when moved the mouse
or something else happened to make the CPU do a bit of work. So this seems-to-be-too-low value is OK. OTOH might be something to monitor
with the USB Lockup Issue (assuming it can be logged!).

KM> Haha... having twin boards has been handy more than once. One
KM> dies, just plug everything into the other and life goes on as
KM> before.
Yes, does tend to make repairs easier! Of course the problem is after a while run out of the duplicate parts. Cannibalizing does have
advantages, though upgrading isn't one. <g>

This is a minor difficulty. <g>

Still have plenty of those 286 motherboards, hmm?!

KM> Wasn't when mine was going... you wouldn't think a mouse dongle
KM> would overtax it, but apparently it did. Didn't lock up but would
KM> simply Not Work.
I'm thinking along those lines too: it seems more the act of plugging in
is the trigger as opposed to the electrical draw. LIS the other day, I

Same as one too many HDs would do to a marginal PSU -- it wasn't
the running draw, it was the startup draw that would make one HD
play dead. Or why staggered startup evolved in the first place.

Uh-huh! Probably not a PSU issue here: not recalling what it is but
should be at least 600W, probably closer to 750. And don't know what a thumbdrive draws but should be too much. (OTOH have felt them get
warm in various computers).

plugged in the same card reader (and SD card) numerous times and only
once did it cause a lock up. Doesn't help either arguement: same USB
thing being plugged in, so seems should always/usually work or not work.

Too many variables in a complete system.

Right. And to extend I have an external USB 3.0 hub, so external power source, and it does the same maybe-I'll-lock-up-maybe-I-won't thing when
a device is plugged in, which is why I'm leaning towards data rather
than voltage as the trigger.

And data is what the Southbridge handles... yeah, I saw the same
thing with my misbehaving beast. Seemed to be data was the
trigger, but data requires voltage to move...

GAA!!! It's all one big circle!! It would seem (and I'll admit to sort
of logically guessing) if voltage was the problem then plugging in to a powered USB hub should solve the problem: the hub has is own 5v supply.

KM> Short usually doesn't lock up, rather it causes an instant
KM> reboot.
Guess that pretty much excludes the problem being a short, or short
duration high current draw episode! (Isn't a true short but like a
motor which dims the lights when it starts.)

This was one reason I decided to cannibalize the server rather
than try to use it... every time I'd power up, it brought to mind
Frank Hayes...
And when it's all assembled there's computer to your collar
It's nice to have a micro but a mainframe would be smaller
And when they turn the power on, it's sure to dim the lamps
At plus and minus sixteen volts and fourteen hundred amps!
Ah! Found it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow78cUDdTOg

Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!! Songs only computer nerds would understand!

Reminds me of the Heathkit GR-300 TV I built: just sitting there, SNAP!
and shuts off. HVPS board would arc to the chassis. First solution to mind: round off solder pad points. Helped, but not completely.
Eventually glued a rubber pad on the chassis under the board -- solved! Well, not a true solution but stopped the problem.

Sounds like a solution to me! :D With mine originally I put some
tape over the spot, but when a better case came along --
transplanted!

That can work! With the TV wasn't that good a consideration -- and BTW
they (Heathkit) built the board because they effectively said it was too dangerous to have the hobbyist build. Obnviously they didn't do it
quite right either.

> (BTW, the problem wasn't with the hardware but the software. Issue was
> the software is supposed to format the SD card. Yup: I was using a 64
> GB card and so over that limit. Switched to a 32 GB card -- no
> problems.)
KM> Huh. What file format were you trying to use?
Default/FAT32/something else. In this specific case I don't think it's
the format but the software/utility: MotionEye. Seems to have problems
if the card is larger than 32 GB (so 64), current and prior versions.

Um, no. With FAT32 the SAFE limit is 32GB, which is why original
FDISK was limited to 32GB for FAT32 disks. Yeah, later versions
of FDISK could do 64GB, but this was a Bad Idea from someone
evidently not fully in the know, because there's a known bug (or
if you prefer, limitation) in FAT32: if the partition is larger
than 32GB, as soon as data crosses that 32GB barrier (either in
total, or just getting written that far out on the disk) FAT32
starts eating files, in a manner that looks a lot like a disk
failure.

Yes, agree. I'll admit to being sloppy and not fully being familiar
with details. Have come across files over 4 GB being truncated because
of the file system limitation. I think in this specific instance the
problem is MotionEye not being able to expand the ISO (?) properly. Use
a 64 GB card - <buzz!> Literally the same command line except having to
change drive location from sdi to sdg with a 32 GB card - <ding!>

I personally experienced this, so went looking, and found
Microsoft's original documentation on the problem. (Which
vanished when they nuked all the old support files.)

Conveniently.

So if you are trying to make a FAT32 partition larger than 32GB,
and your software refuses -- it's just trying to save your sorry
butt.

Right. I wasn't trying to do that. The card was marked as 64 GB,
detected as such, worked fine with a limited test (copied a file to the
64 GB partition). just the expansion script used by MotionEye doesn't
seem to like anything over 32 GB. I have seen 64 and 128 GB cards with MotionEye pre-installed -- don't like the price, plus if something goes
wrong I'm screwed since I'm relying on somebody else.

exFAT (Extended FAT, commonly used on flash drives) is a

I didn't see exFAT as a option to format the SD card. It is available
-- just re-checked gparted. OTOH LIS a bit earlier, it seems to be a limitation of MotionEye even though is the specific version for the
Raspberry Pi 3.

different filesystem entirely, more like NTFS without the
journaling overhead (and without the allocation table redundancy,
so if it fails, there's no recovery). Older Windows needs a patch
to see exFAT. It can be used on Really Big Disks. I usually
reformat 'em NTFS so everything can see it without any hoop
jumping.

I've been using a journaled system on my bigger mainframe/server-type
systems because I do want the recovery ability -- and probably have used
it!

Of course FAT32 also has a filesize limit of about 4GB. NTFS and
exFAT have no such limit.

Don't need that large a file for the MotionEye system. Other systems,
yes.

I'm not the only one but of course now can't find anything to support. Current creation: the command line to copy the image, auto-install the static address, WiFi, etc., is rather long so I have a template on file
and copy that to Terminal. Several attempts with the 64 GB card, one
with the 32.

See above....

LIS it seems the problem is within MotionEye.

Oh: also had run into a similiar problem with one of my external card
adapters: it is USB 2.0 and has capacity limitiations based on the card:
SDHC is 32 GB, Mini SDHC is 4 GB, regular and Micro SDXC is 64 GB. And
to anticipate the question: IOGear GFR209. (I used a SIIG guess model JU-MR0712-S1 which says supports up to 2 TB.)

KM> Ya think? this is the same board with the USB low voltage issue!!
I'm starting to see a pattern! <g> ...Brilliant thought: PSU issue??

What brand is the PSU? Have you put it on a voltage tester? (one
that shows voltage for each line, not just a good/bad LED.) I've
become an Enermax bigot because those are the only ones I've
tested that have consistent voltage without sags or spikes. And
about half or 2/3rds of my stash that passed the good/bad
tester... got nixed by the one that shows actual voltage. Best
$15 I ever spent. Especially since a couple of the
supposedly-good were spiking bad enough to kill components.

Might be going inside later! 'sudo dmidecode --type 39' was given one
place as a way to find the PSU information -- not here. Sort of
wandering the command line and 'sudo dmidecode | grep -i Power' gave me
a line that said I have one power cord!! Use two for 240? <g> ...Ah!
Maybe plug two cords into two different outlets on two different
circuits!!

OK, back to work: pretty sure it's a Thermaltake rated 750W.

The other reason I've become an Enermax bigot (tho I buy the old
ones from when they were still 100% vertical) is that I've only
had one die, and it had somewhere high of 20 years 24/7/365 under
its belt. (And lordy, the size of the capacitors and heatsinks in
there... capacitors the size of your thumb. No wonder they don't
sag.)

I've got an old PSU for a Sanders 720 with capacitors about 4" in
diameter by about the same in height!!

KM> Which Lenovo board is that?
M51-8141 KNB. ...Well that's weird: checked another file and it says it only takes 4 GB and has two slots. Definately has four slots. Maybe I
have the wrong card in it? (It and a couple others are currently being stored.)

From what I can find, an M51 Thinkcentre (made in 2005 for
WinXP) only supports a 32bit CPU, or at least that's what it
shipped with, so would max out at 4GB RAM regardless of however
many slots. But it's socket775, so you'd think would support at
least early x64 CPUs?? What exactly CPU is in it?

I'm going to have to physically pull and check. I have two computers
tagged as "M51": one is a SFF and the other regular. The SFF one is the
one I'm talking about where the published specs say 8 GB (2+2+2+2) but
would only take 6 (2+2+1+1). Know it's that one as the tag also 'warns' DisplayPort. Video worked fine to HDMI (via adapter), only reason for
the warning is being SFF has advantages for a MythTV Frontend, just not
sure about audio via DisplayPort.

https://www.cnet.com/products/thinkcentre-m51/ https://www.cpu-upgrade.com/mb-Intel_%28chipsets%29/915G_Express.h
tml
Hmm, nope, all the CPUs that chipset supports are 32bit. So 4GB
is the max RAM. But being kinda on the cusp of the Next Great
Leap Forward, it might have some rudimentary ability to SEE, if
not properly USE, more RAM. But the CPU can't address it anyway,
unless you LIKE data corruption. Four slots probably means at the
time 4x1GB sticks were significantly cheaper than 2x2GB sticks.
(They probably all have the four slots in the PCB, just not the
external part soldered on.)

As I recall when I purchased the upgrade RAM checked with Crucial's site
and they said a max of 8 GB (4x 2GB). So I'm thinking my "M51" tag is
wrong. Right now can't see an official chassis tag.

Lenovo seems to have some funny ideas about its own products...
frex that RMA'd dual CPU board I got back as "refused"?? Lenovo
support guy swears up and down it's not theirs, and he worked on developing the D20 line so he knows! BUT when I plug the model
number into Lenovo search, guess what, up comes the D20. Which it
doesn't look like... but BIOS (when it had one CPU, thus before
it PFFZT'd) said it IS a Lenovo D20. Must be some hands that
never shook other hands, is all I can think.

They hired someone from Microsoft? Failed line "Nope, we never did
that"! <g>

I can't find the M51 on their site at all. Closest is the M53.

"It gets worse"! One of the "M51"'s tagged here is an IBM - has the
logo on the front. Their label "8142-KNB". I lso have a note "Intel
Pentium 4 @ 3.20 GHz x2" (so dual core) and "RAM 3.0 GB max 4". So this
one is the true M51.

The other "M51" must be the imposter (cue "To Tell the Truth"! Marked
"Lenovo" but I can't get to any official labelling nor notes. Is
matching up with computer files I have for an M58 type 7360 -- plus
there's a file about the memory issue (2+2+1+1). ...Made a note on the notecard.

> KM> Ah, well... when I get completely moved into New Silver, Cash can
> KM> have its old job back (secondary PCLOS streaming box) and Tarnish
> KM> can run ReactOS (which runs well on Tarnish, and doesn't like it
> KM> when there's more than 4GB RAM anyway).
> Sounds like winter projects!
KM> At least, after the baseball season. <g>
But now they're showing reruns!

Not yet!

You sure? Maybe your memory... <g>

> It almost seems like CenturyLink is setting themselves up to fail. When
KM> They don't seem to want customers anymore, that's for sure...
That had been pretty much my thought for several years. It seemed like
they weren't making much of an effort to combat Mediacom (cable) around here. Sure, CenturyLink is more telephone service with Internet and television as additional services and Mediacom more TV with Internet and telephone as additional but seems the average consumer looks at the
three options as one, or at least best bang for the buck.

Or so they've been taught to do by the cable/media/phone
companies.

Possibly: "if you have us for [this] may as well get the other two
options".

BTW, received a confirmation call last night on my cell phone for the
repair of the land line today. Pre-recorded, which I have no problems
with. The problem was when the recording did the time inserts:
something like "your repair technician will be there between" "<super- garbled>" "and" "<super-garbled but different" "and the work completed
by "<super-garbled again but different". ...You've heard the National
Weather Service break-in announcements for storms? They're usually
somewhat garbled but understandable. The inserts from CenturyLink were
10x worse! I barely understood because I knew from their "Where's My
Tech" app was supposed to be 8:15, etc. Did do the 'replay this
message' option and was just as bad.

And there have been fiber optic 'noises' for years. Some time ago the

I have fiber right across the road, laid when Montana Power got
sucked into Enron's scam (I won't say suckered, cuz MP execs were
in on it as their exit strategy). 200 feet away and might as well
be on Mars. You can actually see this stretch (well, a couple
miles down the road) being laid in the Montana Power Debacle
documentary on PBS. So they have fiber down at the casino at the
next wide spot in the road, but not here.

That's highly annoying! Don't know if you recall him here from years ago
but think it was Chopin Chusacks <sp> who lived on the wrong side of the
road: across the street was able to get some service but he could not.

City of Bettendorf was considering offering free WiFi (so Internet) and
then that faded and a bit later Metronet (fiber optic connection) made
its bid to provide service to Davenport and Bettendorf. To me it would
seem that should have shaken-awake CenturyLink: "hey, we're going to
loose customers! That's income!" but AFAICT they just kept snoozing. Mediacom (cable) did (and continues to) actively upgrade their services
and offer some rather attractive come-on pricings.

I think a lot of 'em are in exit strategy mode and don't want to
increase stock value beyond what some other corp might be willing
to pay to snatch 'em up.

Possible, though seems with CenturyLink this lack of upgrading has been
going on before then. And CL seems to be huge, so more "we'll be buying
you" than "you'll be buying us". Oh well. ...And thinking NBC was
bought by GE and Universal and so Comcast, ABC by Disney....

KM> Egads... I did find the phone number for the local tech, assuming
KM> the number still goes anywhere useful.. need to get around to
KM> calling him.
May or may not be useful. Last Spring called CenturyLink because of a

He's good... knows his stuff and is thorough.. but he's also not
in some damn call center.

I could make a snarky remark about nationality but could be taken wrong
by someone else.

Have a friend who worked in an EDS call center for about a year.
Thought he'd died and gone to hell. It was all about being
useless enough to keep people on the line longer so EDS could
charge overtime to HP. For this precise purpose they'd actually
designed the support setup so it was impossible to get any
support call done in the mandated time. You gotta wonder who at
HP got kickbacks to look the other way over what was flamingly
obvious to anyone with half a brain. Or, why call centers prefer
to hire dumb people.

<sigh> I will admit there are dumb customers out there. When we had the derecho last month I called in because of the power line being down
(broken by the tree falling). MidAmerican Energy eventually sent out
someone to check (_not_ being sarcastic on the 'eventually': there were thousands just in Bettendorf); essentially "yup, it's broken" (NSS!) but
when we chatted with them the reason was because a lot of customers
don't know the power line from the phone line (!).

very noisy and then loss of voice telephone (oddly DSL seemed
reasonable). Two or three loose wires were found by the technician,
whom I considered excellent: spent the time to track down and fix, plus
was pleasant. Unfortunately he travelled the country -- had just come
from Hawaii (!) and was going somewhere towards the East Coast next.

Didn't know they had traveling salesmen!

I didn't either! Sure, makes sense to send 'extra' crew from one place
to another to help take care of emergencies like hurricanes, etc.

> So yes, might be good for you to consider switching to the wireless
> company. I'd be checking the connectivity: decent during bad weather
KM> Had fixed wireless in SoCal and it was really spotty in anything
KM> that looked like weather. Had fixed wireless in Clarkston MT and
KM> it was solid even during a blizzard. One could hope the equipment
KM> is getting better, but it's still strictly line of sight.
And of course you don't know how good (or bad) it will be until after the installation. Any correlation to your cell phone service?

Nope, tho their radio may live on the same tower. Hey, put a
tower on my hill, pretty please!!

That would be nice! Have come across antenna terrain stuff -- shows
where coverage is and isn't. Was kind of interesting as whatever I was looking at at the time showed a detailed lack of coverage along brooks
and minor waterways ==> essentially at the top had signal but down the
bank where the water was no signal.



¯ BarryMartin3@ ®
¯ @MyMetronet.NET ®

... VIR#SES?!?# We##on't #ot n##stink##g vir#####!##########
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47
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Hi Ky!

Created a script to log some of the (lm-)sensors values to a file:


while true; do echo $( date '+%H:%M:%S' ), $( sensors | grep 'V' | sed
-r 's/^.* {8}\+(.*)øC .*$/\1/' ) >>
'/home/barry/Sensors_Log/Log.txt' ; sleep 0; done

Probably sloppy cookbook coding but does what I want: monitor voltages.

Did a test by plugging in a thumbdrive. Did not cause a lockup (not
surprised) but suppose good for a baseline.

+12 Started at 12.10 then to 12.05. Don't think the drop had
anything to do with the insertion and removal of the thumbdrive.

+5 Constant 5.01. Not that the thumbdrive draws that much but
half-figured would vary at least a hundreth of a volt.

Vcore Did vary but is constanty changing anyway. 0.91. 1.18, 1.27,
1.25, 1.28, 1.12.

+3.3 Stayed at 3.22.

Vbatt Stayed at 3.38.


Will randomly start the script and plug something in to see if can
capture a lockup.


¯ BarryMartin3@ ®
¯ @MyMetronet.NET ®

... One more time.....which one is Shinola?
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47
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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

Created a script to log some of the (lm-)sensors values to a file:

while true; do echo $( date '+%H:%M:%S' ), $( sensors | grep 'V' | sed
-r 's/^.* {8}\+(.*)øC .*$/\1/' ) >>
'/home/barry/Sensors_Log/Log.txt' ; sleep 0; done

Probably sloppy cookbook coding but does what I want: monitor voltages.

It looks like gibberish to me, so you're ahead! <g>

Did a test by plugging in a thumbdrive. Did not cause a lockup (not surprised) but suppose good for a baseline.

+12 Started at 12.10 then to 12.05. Don't think the drop had
anything to do with the insertion and removal of the thumbdrive.

Probably not.

+5 Constant 5.01. Not that the thumbdrive draws that much but
half-figured would vary at least a hundreth of a volt.

You'd think? Well, here's a thought... maybe voltage is not reaching the ports? USB tester is about 4 bucks...

Vcore Did vary but is constanty changing anyway. 0.91. 1.18, 1.27,
1.25, 1.28, 1.12.

That's CPU voltage; modern CPUs only use what they need at the moment.

Will randomly start the script and plug something in to see if can
capture a lockup.

Good, uh, bad luck?

.. One more time.....which one is Shinola?

The one that's not shiny. <g>
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--- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462
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Hi Ky!

Created a script to log some of the (lm-)sensors values to a file:
while true; do echo $( date '+%H:%M:%S' ), $( sensors | grep 'V' | sed
-r 's/^.* {8}\+(.*)øC .*$/\1/' ) >>
'/home/barry/Sensors_Log/Log.txt' ; sleep 0; done
Probably sloppy cookbook coding but does what I want: monitor voltages.

It looks like gibberish to me, so you're ahead! <g>

I have no idea what the stuff is between 'sed' and the redirect '>>' --
that was extracted from the 'cookbook'. Probably don't need as the
original was for monitoring CPU temperature -- IIRC the "C" in that
statement should be øC.

Anyway, did plug in a memory card adapter and that made things lock up.
Yea!! Unfortunately the Log file was 0 bytes after the reboot. And of
course the adapter worked fine after that.

Did a test by plugging in a thumbdrive. Did not cause a lockup (not surprised) but suppose good for a baseline.

+12 Started at 12.10 then to 12.05. Don't think the drop had
anything to do with the insertion and removal of the thumbdrive.

Probably not.

Thinking not also.

+5 Constant 5.01. Not that the thumbdrive draws that much but
half-figured would vary at least a hundreth of a volt.

You'd think? Well, here's a thought... maybe voltage is not
reaching the ports? USB tester is about 4 bucks...

I have previously tested the voltage and appears OK. OTOH maybe not as closely as should: may have been more "yes there is a good 5v output
[it's not at 4.5]" type of look. And somehow I half-remember just
inserting the tester locked it up once -- does have to have data pass-through.....

Vcore Did vary but is constanty changing anyway. 0.91. 1.18, 1.27,
1.25, 1.28, 1.12.

That's CPU voltage; modern CPUs only use what they need at the
moment.

Right. Suppose only would be significant if spiked into the 2v range
when a thumbdrive was plugged in. We're not sure what we're looking
for.

Will randomly start the script and plug something in to see if can
capture a lockup.

Good, uh, bad luck?

<chuckle> LIS at the top, did have a lockup but no log file created.
Not sure if the script was running correctly as I do recall not being
able to see the filesize for some reason.

.. One more time.....which one is Shinola?

The one that's not shiny. <g>

Ah!


¯ BarryMartin3@ ®
¯ @MyMetronet.NET ®

... The people who don't make mistakes are the people not doing anything.
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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

Quickie before I forget... how much plugging and unplugging have all
these USB ports seen? design lifespan is ~1000 uses. Daily for 3 years
would exceed that. Wondering if there might be a broken trace that
usually (but not always) shorts when the port gets wiggled. And any
wiggling the system could trigger it, even if using a different port,
just cuz it takes very little at the micro level of traces.

There's another reason to use disposables like hubs and short extension cables, rather than repeatedly using the ports on the much-more-costly mainboard (whether convenient or not). Or at least stick to ports that
are not directly attached to the motherboard.

I got some one foot extensions from Jacobsparts (ebay) precisely for
this purpose. Also makes stupidly-arranged ones easier to reach.

This'un: (5 pack so about two bucks each)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-pack-USB-3-0-Extension-Cable-Cord-Standard-Type-Male-Female-1-FT-5X-/141688424701?hash=item20fd49c8fd

Good quality, arrived fast, best price, and they carry all sorts of
weird lengths not usually seen.
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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

Anyway, did plug in a memory card adapter and that made things lock up.
Yea!! Unfortunately the Log file was 0 bytes after the reboot. And of course the adapter worked fine after that.

So it's probably electrical, not OS. Still think you've got a hardware
failure in progress.

KM> You'd think? Well, here's a thought... maybe voltage is not
KM> reaching the ports? USB tester is about 4 bucks...

I have previously tested the voltage and appears OK. OTOH maybe not as closely as should: may have been more "yes there is a good 5v output
[it's not at 4.5]" type of look. And somehow I half-remember just
inserting the tester locked it up once -- does have to have data pass-through.....

Plug a flash drive into the tester BEFORE inserting it, and see what it says...
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Hi Ky!

Quickie before I forget... how much plugging and unplugging have
all these USB ports seen? design lifespan is ~1000 uses. Daily
for 3 years would exceed that. Wondering if there might be a
broken trace that usually (but not always) shorts when the port
gets wiggled. And any wiggling the system could trigger it, even
if using a different port, just cuz it takes very little at the
micro level of traces.

There's another reason to use disposables like hubs and short
extension cables, rather than repeatedly using the ports on the much-more-costly mainboard (whether convenient or not). Or at
least stick to ports that are not directly attached to the
motherboard.

I got some one foot extensions from Jacobsparts (ebay) precisely
for this purpose. Also makes stupidly-arranged ones easier to
reach.

This'un: (5 pack so about two bucks each)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-pack-USB-3-0-Extension-Cable-Cord-Stand ard-Type-Male
Female-1-FT-5X-/141688424701?hash=item20fd49c8fd

Good quality, arrived fast, best price, and they carry all sorts
of weird lengths not usually seen.

The USB ports are all 'essentially new': irregular usage so a little
hard to guess. Maybe six times one day and then none for the next couple
of weeks. And I've had it lock up via (powered) USB Hubs -- plugged in
to the rear panel. So doesn't appear to be a broken trace/sticky-out
wire problem, though I had thought of that some time back.

BTW did work on a little project yesterday where I needed to plug in a thumbdrive -- got my logger going, no lock ups! ...Maybe should run the logger all the time!




¯ BarryMartin3@ ®
¯ @MyMetronet.NET ®

... This crash reduces
your expensive computer
to a perfect boat anchor.
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