Well, this message is older than dirt...

The clock is powered by the 5v from the USB, so plugs in to one of the
ports. Currently the 5v is reduced to 3v by the voltage divider
circuit.

I lately discovered something odd about USB... the setup is this:

USB Hub (no power)
1) hard disk (no power)
2) hard disk (with external power)

So long as #2 is plugged in, #1 is powered even if nothing is attached
to anything else (no other power sources). Didn't realise they shared!

Just had to retire the oldest hard disk in the house that was still in
use... almost 18 years old!! Starting to have a little hitch in its
getalong, locks up if it's asked to do too much at once. Wasn't being
asked to do much, since all that box does is DOS. What's really amazing
is that it's an IBM HD !!!
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Hi Ky!

Well, this message is older than dirt...

You're supposed to log in more frequently than once a century!

The clock is powered by the 5v from the USB, so plugs in to one of the ports. Currently the 5v is reduced to 3v by the voltage divider
circuit.

That's the problem: the clock is running slow and so that's why you're
just getting the message!!

I lately discovered something odd about USB... the setup is this:
USB Hub (no power)
1) hard disk (no power)
2) hard disk (with external power)
So long as #2 is plugged in, #1 is powered even if nothing is
attached to anything else (no other power sources). Didn't
realise they shared!

So #1 is getting its power via #2? Yes, sounds a little strange but the electrons don't care where the source is. Humans are expecting the
source to be the hub but once electricity is put on the 'rails' it's
there and goes in all directions. If AC might be a problem with
phasing, but as DC and polarized no problem.

Just had to retire the oldest hard disk in the house that was
still in use... almost 18 years old!! Starting to have a little
hitch in its getalong, locks up if it's asked to do too much at
once. Wasn't being asked to do much, since all that box does is
DOS. What's really amazing is that it's an IBM HD !!!

IBM does build some sturdy stuff! As it locks up if asked to do too
much at once, my guess is a mechanical issue: the heads can't get in
position fast enough.

¯ ®
¯ Barry_Martin_3@ ®
¯ @Q.COM ®
¯ ®


... Mispeaks: "You gotta grab the frog by the horns!"
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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

KM> Well, this message is older than dirt...

You're supposed to log in more frequently than once a century!

Oh, is that it? Who knew!!

> The clock is powered by the 5v from the USB, so plugs in to one of the
> ports. Currently the 5v is reduced to 3v by the voltage divider
> circuit.

That's the problem: the clock is running slow and so that's why you're
just getting the message!!

Now you're talking to yourself. ;) Or someone, anyway, wasn't me!

KM> I lately discovered something odd about USB... the setup is this:
KM> USB Hub (no power)
KM> 1) hard disk (no power)
KM> 2) hard disk (with external power)
KM> So long as #2 is plugged in, #1 is powered even if nothing is
KM> attached to anything else (no other power sources). Didn't
KM> realise they shared!

So #1 is getting its power via #2? Yes, sounds a little strange but the electrons don't care where the source is. Humans are expecting the
source to be the hub but once electricity is put on the 'rails' it's
there and goes in all directions. If AC might be a problem with
phasing, but as DC and polarized no problem.

Yeah, I was expected it was gated one direction, but apparently this
isn't the case. Makes me wonder what happens if a USB device plugged
into the computer should happen to get overpowered... I'm not sure I
like this idea, come to mention it.

KM> Just had to retire the oldest hard disk in the house that was
KM> still in use... almost 18 years old!! Starting to have a little
KM> hitch in its getalong, locks up if it's asked to do too much at
KM> once. Wasn't being asked to do much, since all that box does is
KM> DOS. What's really amazing is that it's an IBM HD !!!

IBM does build some sturdy stuff! As it locks up if asked to do too
much at once, my guess is a mechanical issue: the heads can't get in
position fast enough.

It had been working fine for a long time, doing the exact same thing,
and only developed this problem in the past month or so. Also started sometimes taking a long time for the system to recognise the drive at
startup, which tends to indicate a failure other than the platters (was
not getting data errors of any sort). Probably got a data pileup when
some circuit failed to respond in a timely manner, hence the "busy" thing.

Which is amazing because if there's one place IBM failed spectacularly,
it was in hard drives (remember the fractured platter issue?). This is
the only live IBM HD I've ever seen!
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Hi Ky!

But is is special: it's been with you for 18 years!

Ha. It'll make a special wind chime. :)

One that's new but yet old!

Have you tried any sort of recovery utility like SpinRite?

No. It's not the platter at fault, far as I can tell, and that's
what SpinRite addresses -- bad sectors on the platter.

Right -- I have a copy of SpinRite here but haven't used it as much as I probably should, sort of the "if it's not broke don't fix it"
methodology.

Made a strange discovery yesterday:
That system had routinely complained "no 80 wire cable" for the
secondary IDE channel. So while I was in there replacing the HD,
I'd replaced the 40 wire with an 80 wire to shut it up.

Makes sense.

And then DOS can't see the DVD drive on that cable. The BIOS sees
it, the driver loads (both parts), but "drive R is not
available". After much thrashing around I checked the cable..
nope, it's in there good, and there's nothing wrong with it or
the driver wouldn't load, and besides, the cable came out of a
working system. Well, crap. Swapped it back to the 40 wire (tho
not the same one) and now all is well again.
80 wire normally works fine with DVD drives. WTF?
But! As a bonus, the bootup whine about "no 80 wire cable" has
gone away!

So maybe the problem was due to a bad connection? OTOH you have 20 bad connections (assuming every other wire is ground) with using a 40 wire
cable in an 80 wire environment.

And I was sort of hoping for a 'better' outcome: I have a computer here
which doesn't like the optical device. Has been set aside for a while
because I got tired of fiddle-farting around with it and so went on to
other projects. Do recall I swapped cables and the CD/DVD (don't recall
which computer much less which hardware, though I did put a note on it).
Will have to clean stuff up up here and start my projects again.



¯ ®
¯ Barry_Martin_3@ ®
¯ @Q.COM ®
¯ ®


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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

Right -- I have a copy of SpinRite here but haven't used it as much as I probably should, sort of the "if it's not broke don't fix it"
methodology.

If it's an old copy, fer ghu's sakes don't use it on a modern hard disk.
I haven't trusted it since Gibson refused to even acknowledge the bug
(screwed up early IDE drives). Modern HDs do quite well at their own
error fixing anyway.

KM> working system. Well, crap. Swapped it back to the 40 wire (tho
KM> not the same one) and now all is well again.
KM> 80 wire normally works fine with DVD drives. WTF?
KM> But! As a bonus, the bootup whine about "no 80 wire cable" has
KM> gone away!

So maybe the problem was due to a bad connection? OTOH you have 20 bad connections (assuming every other wire is ground) with using a 40 wire
cable in an 80 wire environment.

I dunno. I've run into drives before that just would not play nice with
a particular cable, even tho the whole rest of the world likes it. And
used to occasionally find IDE cables that worked with a CDROM but not
with a hard disk. You'd think a clutch of wires with a plug on each end
would be easier to get right!

And I was sort of hoping for a 'better' outcome: I have a computer here
which doesn't like the optical device. Has been set aside for a while because I got tired of fiddle-farting around with it and so went on to
other projects. Do recall I swapped cables and the CD/DVD (don't recall which computer much less which hardware, though I did put a note on it).
Will have to clean stuff up up here and start my projects again.

What optical device and how is it hooked up? if IDE, cable shared?
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Hi Ky!

Right -- I have a copy of SpinRite here but haven't used it as much as I probably should, sort of the "if it's not broke don't fix it"

If it's an old copy, fer ghu's sakes don't use it on a modern
hard disk. I haven't trusted it since Gibson refused to even
acknowledge the bug (screwed up early IDE drives). Modern HDs do
quite well at their own error fixing anyway.

It's the current or near-current version -- I haven't been told of an
update being available since I purchased.

KM> working system. Well, crap. Swapped it back to the 40 wire (tho
KM> not the same one) and now all is well again.
KM> 80 wire normally works fine with DVD drives. WTF?
KM> But! As a bonus, the bootup whine about "no 80 wire cable" has
KM> gone away!
So maybe the problem was due to a bad connection? OTOH you have 20 bad connections (assuming every other wire is ground) with using a 40 wire
cable in an 80 wire environment.

I dunno. I've run into drives before that just would not play
nice with a particular cable, even tho the whole rest of the
world likes it. And used to occasionally find IDE cables that
worked with a CDROM but not with a hard disk. You'd think a
clutch of wires with a plug on each end would be easier to get
right!

One would think! Sort of reminds me of a computer I put a tape drive in
to (and yes, this was several years ago! <g>). Tape drive didn't work,
and of course nothing in the troubleshooting section helped.
Instructions also didn't mention an on-screen message I was supposed to
get as it was acknowledged by the system (IMO would have been nice to
know). Tested the voltage at the Molex connector - good. Maybe when
under load it fails? Installed a Y-connector; tape drive worked!
Didn't bother with testing and yes, left the Y splitter in there!

And I was sort of hoping for a 'better' outcome: I have a computer here which doesn't like the optical device. Has been set aside for a while because I got tired of fiddle-farting around with it and so went on to
other projects. Do recall I swapped cables and the CD/DVD (don't recall which computer much less which hardware, though I did put a note on it). Will have to clean stuff up up here and start my projects again.

What optical device and how is it hooked up? if IDE, cable
shared?

Right now I don't even know which computer it is much less the way it's connected inside. Do know it has been set aside on to the storage
table, so will eventually get around to seeing what's up and ask for
help.

¯ ®
¯ Barry_Martin_3@ ®
¯ @Q.COM ®
¯ ®


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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

> Right -- I have a copy of SpinRite here but haven't used it as much as

I

> probably should, sort of the "if it's not broke don't fix it"
KM> If it's an old copy, fer ghu's sakes don't use it on a modern
KM> hard disk. I haven't trusted it since Gibson refused to even
KM> acknowledge the bug (screwed up early IDE drives). Modern HDs do
KM> quite well at their own error fixing anyway.
It's the current or near-current version -- I haven't been told of an
update being available since I purchased.

Current in its case means 1992 with a new version number. :/

One would think! Sort of reminds me of a computer I put a tape drive in
to (and yes, this was several years ago!<g>). Tape drive didn't work,
and of course nothing in the troubleshooting section helped.
Instructions also didn't mention an on-screen message I was supposed to
get as it was acknowledged by the system (IMO would have been nice to
know). Tested the voltage at the Molex connector - good. Maybe when
under load it fails? Installed a Y-connector; tape drive worked!
Didn't bother with testing and yes, left the Y splitter in there!

Ah, now that one I can tell ya... sometimes the little innard on the
female molex plug gets stretched, and won't contact certain male plugs
very well. When you find one that makes contact, you leave it in there!

Or in the case of this Enermax PSU that has more plugs than anyone can
use, I magic marker that one "BAD" and don't use it. :P~
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Hi Ky!

> Right -- I have a copy of SpinRite here but haven't used it as much as

> probably should, sort of the "if it's not broke don't fix it"
KM> If it's an old copy, fer ghu's sakes don't use it on a modern
KM> hard disk. I haven't trusted it since Gibson refused to even
KM> acknowledge the bug (screwed up early IDE drives). Modern HDs do
KM> quite well at their own error fixing anyway.
It's the current or near-current version -- I haven't been told of an
update being available since I purchased.

Current in its case means 1992 with a new version number. :/

From what I've been told he improved quite a bit of the code since then
but I have to go by what I'm told as don't have old versions to compare
nor do I know how to read the stuff.

One would think! Sort of reminds me of a computer I put a tape drive in
to (and yes, this was several years ago!<g>). Tape drive didn't work,
and of course nothing in the troubleshooting section helped.
Instructions also didn't mention an on-screen message I was supposed to
get as it was acknowledged by the system (IMO would have been nice to
know). Tested the voltage at the Molex connector - good. Maybe when
under load it fails? Installed a Y-connector; tape drive worked!
Didn't bother with testing and yes, left the Y splitter in there!

Ah, now that one I can tell ya... sometimes the little innard on
the female molex plug gets stretched, and won't contact certain
male plugs very well. When you find one that makes contact, you
leave it in there!

Probably so, or else a male connector was too small. At the time hadn't
really considered the physiology behind it but figured for $2-something
to fix the problem was worth it.

Or in the case of this Enermax PSU that has more plugs than
anyone can use, I magic marker that one "BAD" and don't use it. :P~

Yup!


¯ ®
¯ Barry_Martin_3@ ®
¯ @Q.COM ®
¯ ®


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