BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

> Apparantly the 18.04 and 20.04 systems here are running the default
> Xorg based on a quick Google search. I wasn't able able to quickly find
KM> https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-general-1/x-xorg-an
KM> d-x11-866327/

Apparantly they've been working on it for a while: "(though Ubuntu is
working on migrating to a different system called Wayland)" from the
March 3, 2011 post.

Yeah, we've all been working on the switch to Wayland for a Long Time.
<goes off, looks around> Distrowatch doesn't have Wayland vs X11 far as
I can find in the search-for-a-distro function, but ... a list:


Fedora.
Debian.
openSUSE Tumbleweed.
PureOS.
Red Hat Enterprise Linux.
SUSE Enterprise Linux.

Also I think Mageia has switched, or lets you select it at login.

And then if you want your brain to hurt, https://www.dz-techs.com/en/using-linux-with-wayland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayland_%28display_server_protocol%29


There's a good video on why Wayland is a huge design improvement (not
nearly as slow and crufty), but getting the bugs out is a different
matter. Remote desktop and nVidia support are apparently still a crapshoot.

Not this one, but it has a quick overview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1BoZnekkyM

Found this:

The quickest (and fun) way to check if you are using Xorg or Wayland in
GNOME 3 using GUI. Press Alt + F2 type r and smash Enter . If it show
the error "Restart is not available on Wayland" img, sorry, you are
using Wayland. If it work as expect (restart GNOME Shell), congrats, you
are using Xorg.

> <laffing to self> Remember the old King Kong/Godzilla type movies?
> Actor's mouth moves, then hear what saying (translation of course).
KM> Or anything from Bollywood today :D
Wonder if the instructor has sent a dancer to the rest room to wash their hands for posing improperly? Each/most positionings are supposed to
mean something.

I thought they got sent to wash their hands for signing profanity!!

KM> drivercollection.com is great for Windows (and there are several
KM> other similar driver archives), but I don't know of any
KM> equivalent for linux... either the hardware vendor has something,
KM> the kernel has something, or you're SOL.

I haven't stumbled across any collection site either.

Choice is good, except when there's none!!

> True: sort of an off-target example but had a bad RAM stick on this
> system when I was bringing it up. Installer would just stop. Probably
> didn't know how to get around the problem.
KM> That's a critical stop no matter what program or OS is running.

What was 'funny' is sometime it did manage to do the installation --
usually the 'Try Me' option -- and actually run - for a short while.
Other times very quickly halted. Guess all where the data was placed at
the time.

Cuz somewhat random when it ran into the bad memory address, depending
on what crap had already used memory so it had to go there.

My old 286 has a bad RAM chip and whenever some app sucked up too much
RAM (such as changing font in WordPerfect), it would hit that bad chip
and crash. Figured out the affected address, locked it out in the DOS
memory manager, and it never crashed again. Fair trade for the 16k of
lost RAM, or whatever it was.

> KM> Dunno about now but in the olden days it was thus:
> KM> Briggs and Stratton generator, buck-naked and noisy, $800.
> Now all sorts of fancy stuff: noise reduction (somewhat), interlocks,
> WiFi to remotely check status....
KM> And to allow hackers access! <g>

Nah: they access through the remote-read option of the electric, gas
and water meters!

Oh, that sounds easier, thanks. <g>

Our generator is outside towards the back corner of the house because of window placement ==> if the window is open don't want the exhaust drawn
into the house.

Oh, yeah, whole neighborhood can enjoy... <g>

I don't have anyone close enough to matter, and besides the trains go by
at all hours of the day and night, and drown out anything short of
nuclear war.

So when getting the generator set up the salesman is shown the old gas
feed -- it terminates about eight/ten feet from where the generator will
be. ...Installer comes to do a site check - gas pipe isn't a large
enough diameter to feed a sufficient amount of natural gas when the
generator starts up: will probably stall. So had to have a new NG pipe installed. (We fought and had the seller pay most of the new pipe price
as their contract said it was satisfactory.)

These are standard iron pipes (and one newfangled plastic pipe) that
also branch over to the the furnace and water heater, so I doubt would
need any different. There's another pipe-to-nowhere in the garage
(actually two) apparently at some point for the gas dryer, presently not hooked up at all. But new pipe is not difficult; my sister's hubby ran
it himself to their new generator (in this case plastic, and yes they
sold him the wrong size to start with... tho we figure that can
eventually go to a small heater in the barn.)

> > Have seen pellet stoves; that's about it: seen 'em! LIS the house has
> KM> Yeah, seen 'em! <g>
> Not feel 'em? -- I see the flames but don't feel any warmth!
KM> I didn't stick my hand inside....
Probably a smart non-move!

Things I don't regret not doing. <g>

> KM> Not especially, but it really doesn't go very far. NG is better
> KM> when you've got the choice.
> Theoretically unlimited supply as long as nothing happens to the
> distribution system!
KM> Yeah, that. So long as no one busts a pipe or turns off a valve,
KM> it should keep working.
Right. Hundreds of potential failure points; still have the old back-up items: hurricane lanterns, flashlights....

I used to have a flashlight that you cranked to charge the batteries.
About one minute of cranking for five minutes of light. Dunno what
became of it but until the batteries got too tired, it worked quite
well. Would still work if you didn't mind continuously cranking.

> KM> LOL, yeah :) I've thought about solar panels just to support the
> KM> computers, figuring since their power goes through a UPS, it
> KM> might not matter so much where it comes from.
> I don't think this house has enough running roof to make solar panels
> worthwhile. I do have some 'camping' solar panels; was going to do
KM> Probably not for the whole house, but I have a very convenient
KM> SW-facing roof area that would support enough for all the PCs and
KM> similar crap.

That would probably work. I'd add in backup power for the refrigerator
- have a freezer? Could possibly run one at a time to save on the
overall load. Also figure for air conditioning and heat.

Two fridges and a freezer. But the idea is not to deal with blackouts
but rather to take the more-optional stuff off the regular power bill as
much as practical.

It would take at least a couple days for my little freezer to start
seriously thawing. Five hours in summer made no difference at all.
Benefit of being packed full, cuz it's only about 7 cu-ft. And in
winter... it's a manual defrost so it sits outside, and won't warm up
unless the power is off til May. <g>

KM> And there's also the barn roof that faces the same way.
Darn! Forgot about the shed's roof! 8x10' storage building for the lawn mower, etc., so whatever surface area that gives the roof. Trouble is
the neighbour's trees block the sunlight.

My barn needs more of that shade, actually... panels would work for shade!

> And possibly snakes, though might be more for stacked wood.
KM> Haven't seen that but I did pull bark off a stump and out jumps a
KM> garter snake!! How the heck did you get in that little crack??
I can flatten my ribs and pretend I'm a mouse!

It had been mighty flat. The space under the bark was less than 1/4 inch.

> KM> However, I do have a large number of dead UPS batteries. When
> KM> Things Fall Apart, lead will be valuable! <g>
> Staple all those the little sheets together to protect from the
> radiation!
KM> I have enough for a very nice lead suit. <g>

And your aluminum foil hat will go nicely!

Very stylish, and not so heavy. <g>

.. I never wear a tinfoil hat: it keeps me from hearing the little voices.

Ah, I knew there was a reason...
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Hi Ky!

> Apparantly the 18.04 and 20.04 systems here are running the default
> Xorg based on a quick Google search. I wasn't able able to quickly find
KM> https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-general-1/x-xorg-an
KM> d-x11-866327/
Apparantly they've been working on it for a while: "(though Ubuntu is working on migrating to a different system called Wayland)" from the
March 3, 2011 post.

Yeah, we've all been working on the switch to Wayland for a Long
Time. <goes off, looks around> Distrowatch doesn't have Wayland
vs X11 far as I can find in the search-for-a-distro function, but
... a list:
Fedora.
Debian.
openSUSE Tumbleweed.
PureOS.
Red Hat Enterprise Linux.
SUSE Enterprise Linux.

IIRC Ubuntu is based on Debian, but then that also means "is an
offspring so can be somewhat different".

Also I think Mageia has switched, or lets you select it at login.

At this point I'll stay with the defaults. ...Hmm: get the new system
up and running could use this one to play with Wayland to see the
difference.

And then if you want your brain to hurt, https://www.dz-techs.com/en/using-linux-with-wayland

When they say "screen recording" do the mean to do a video presentation
and record the mouse moving and the text being typed or a passive screen
shot? (I do a lot of screen shots.)

There's a good video on why Wayland is a huge design improvement
(not nearly as slow and crufty), but getting the bugs out is a
different matter. Remote desktop and nVidia support are
apparently still a crapshoot.

Saw that in the DZ-Techs post. nVidia seems to be a little iffy: LIS I
had upgraded my old laptop from 18.04 to 20.04 and the nVidia driver
stopped working. ...I haven't investigated further as the laptop isn't
used that frequently. On a different system might be a top-of-the-pile
job!

Not this one, but it has a quick overview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1BoZnekkyM
Found this:
The quickest (and fun) way to check if you are using Xorg or
Wayland in GNOME 3 using GUI. Press Alt + F2 type r and smash
Enter . If it show the error "Restart is not available on
Wayland" img, sorry, you are using Wayland. If it work as expect
(restart GNOME Shell), congrats, you are using Xorg.

So if it says 'Wayland' then can be reasonable sure that system is using Wayland! <"chic derriere" -- that's French for 'smart <rump>!!>

> <laffing to self> Remember the old King Kong/Godzilla type movies?
> Actor's mouth moves, then hear what saying (translation of course).
KM> Or anything from Bollywood today :D
Wonder if the instructor has sent a dancer to the rest room to wash their hands for posing improperly? Each/most positionings are supposed to
mean something.

I thought they got sent to wash their hands for signing
profanity!!

That's what I had meant but didn't come out clearly.

KM> drivercollection.com is great for Windows (and there are several
KM> other similar driver archives), but I don't know of any
KM> equivalent for linux... either the hardware vendor has something,
KM> the kernel has something, or you're SOL.
I haven't stumbled across any collection site either.

Choice is good, except when there's none!!

But that makes choosing so much simpler!!

> True: sort of an off-target example but had a bad RAM stick on this
> system when I was bringing it up. Installer would just stop. Probably
> didn't know how to get around the problem.
KM> That's a critical stop no matter what program or OS is running.
What was 'funny' is sometime it did manage to do the installation --
usually the 'Try Me' option -- and actually run - for a short while.
Other times very quickly halted. Guess all where the data was placed at
the time.

Cuz somewhat random when it ran into the bad memory address,
depending on what crap had already used memory so it had to go
there.

Right: the MEM86+ testing always found the bad spot quickly -- within
about a minute which I took as the 'lower' or maybe 'upper'part of the
memory depending on which way it started. It would seem the
installation process would also have problems the same place but maybe
the RAM's segment was marked 'available' or not depending on if a power
boot or simply a reboot or something. (Big 'Black Box', can you tell?!)

My old 286 has a bad RAM chip and whenever some app sucked up too
much RAM (such as changing font in WordPerfect), it would hit
that bad chip and crash. Figured out the affected address, locked
it out in the DOS memory manager, and it never crashed again.
Fair trade for the 16k of lost RAM, or whatever it was.

That'll work! My XT had a utility to test its memory (little black
'chicklets' on the motherboard!) and would pinpoint exactly which pin of
the IC was the problem on ASCII diagram! Remove the IC with a chip
puller, swap in the new one.

> KM> Dunno about now but in the olden days it was thus:
> KM> Briggs and Stratton generator, buck-naked and noisy, $800.
> Now all sorts of fancy stuff: noise reduction (somewhat), interlocks,
> WiFi to remotely check status....
KM> And to allow hackers access! <g>
Nah: they access through the remote-read option of the electric, gas
and water meters!

Oh, that sounds easier, thanks. <g>

Why are the lights dimming in a Morse Code pattern?

Our generator is outside towards the back corner of the house because of window placement ==> if the window is open don't want the exhaust drawn
into the house.

Oh, yeah, whole neighborhood can enjoy... <g>

The engine noise or the engine exhaust?!

I don't have anyone close enough to matter, and besides the
trains go by at all hours of the day and night, and drown out
anything short of nuclear war.

(Must be noise.) Can hear the trains travelling along the Mississippi
River up here -- only a dozen blocks. Sometimes if hits the sleep cycle
right in the middle of the night will hear the trains as they go into
the distance. Doppler Effect (?) kicks in as they go though curves in
the track.

> > Have seen pellet stoves; that's about it: seen 'em! LIS the house

a

> KM> Yeah, seen 'em! <g>
> Not feel 'em? -- I see the flames but don't feel any warmth!
KM> I didn't stick my hand inside....
Probably a smart non-move!

Things I don't regret not doing. <g>

Sometimes it's good not to do something!

> KM> Not especially, but it really doesn't go very far. NG is better
> KM> when you've got the choice.
> Theoretically unlimited supply as long as nothing happens to the
> distribution system!
KM> Yeah, that. So long as no one busts a pipe or turns off a valve,
KM> it should keep working.
Right. Hundreds of potential failure points; still have the old back-up items: hurricane lanterns, flashlights....

I used to have a flashlight that you cranked to charge the
batteries. About one minute of cranking for five minutes of
light. Dunno what became of it but until the batteries got too
tired, it worked quite well. Would still work if you didn't mind continuously cranking.

Yes, we have one of those -- I think it also has a radio. Never used it
in an emergency as the hurricane laterns, flashlights, and battery packs worked. Also battery-powered TVs.

> KM> LOL, yeah :) I've thought about solar panels just to support the
> KM> computers, figuring since their power goes through a UPS, it
> KM> might not matter so much where it comes from.
> I don't think this house has enough running roof to make solar panels
> worthwhile. I do have some 'camping' solar panels; was going to do
KM> Probably not for the whole house, but I have a very convenient
KM> SW-facing roof area that would support enough for all the PCs and
KM> similar crap.
That would probably work. I'd add in backup power for the refrigerator
- have a freezer? Could possibly run one at a time to save on the
overall load. Also figure for air conditioning and heat.

Two fridges and a freezer. But the idea is not to deal with
blackouts but rather to take the more-optional stuff off the
regular power bill as much as practical.

That would help pay for the solar installation costs!

It would take at least a couple days for my little freezer to
start seriously thawing. Five hours in summer made no difference
at all. Benefit of being packed full, cuz it's only about 7
cu-ft. And in winter... it's a manual defrost so it sits outside,
and won't warm up unless the power is off til May. <g>

Haven't done it here but I vaguely recall either my parents actually
doing it or talking about it (planning) of putting some of the food
outside.

KM> And there's also the barn roof that faces the same way.
Darn! Forgot about the shed's roof! 8x10' storage building for the lawn mower, etc., so whatever surface area that gives the roof. Trouble is
the neighbour's trees block the sunlight.

My barn needs more of that shade, actually... panels would work
for shade!

I've seen pictures of solar farms with animals clustered underneath for
shade.

> And possibly snakes, though might be more for stacked wood.
KM> Haven't seen that but I did pull bark off a stump and out jumps a
KM> garter snake!! How the heck did you get in that little crack??
I can flatten my ribs and pretend I'm a mouse!

It had been mighty flat. The space under the bark was less than
1/4 inch.

I've heard of flatworms but not flatsnakes!

> KM> However, I do have a large number of dead UPS batteries. When
> KM> Things Fall Apart, lead will be valuable! <g>
> Staple all those the little sheets together to protect from the
> radiation!
KM> I have enough for a very nice lead suit. <g>
And your aluminum foil hat will go nicely!

Very stylish, and not so heavy. <g>

Took off the lead trim, did you?

.. I never wear a tinfoil hat: it keeps me from hearing the little voices.

Ah, I knew there was a reason...

You thought it was 'cause mussed my hair!


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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Energizer UPS ==> Linux driver to USB interface.

Check my model: the below drivers list specific models.

https://www.vttoth.com/CMS/projects/23-energizer-ups-linux-driver

Also: http://linuxcommand.org/man_pages/energizerups8.html

I must be doin' it wrong... I never plug the UPS into the computer!
Didn't occur to me it might need a *gasp* driver...
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Hi Ky!

Energizer UPS ==> Linux driver to USB interface.
Check my model: the below drivers list specific models.
https://www.vttoth.com/CMS/projects/23-energizer-ups-linux-driver
Also: http://linuxcommand.org/man_pages/energizerups8.html

I must be doin' it wrong... I never plug the UPS into the
computer! Didn't occur to me it might need a *gasp* driver...

You don't?! I find the computer protects the UPS from being damaged by surgres, etc.!!

As for the driver, I think the drivers are now part of the kernel, or
possibly part of the stuff when see "installing previously not
installed". Plus that reference is quite a few years old.

Installed the new UPS last Thursday morning; haven't done anything with
the monitoring and communications with either UPS yet, other than plug
cables into the back panels.

Did find something when I plugged the new UPS in: old one had the power
cord than plugs into the back so left in place for the new one. New one
is hard-wired so removed the original cord. ...Why is it marked
"UPS2"?? It's UPS1! So when I had pulled the plug to test after the
first time the UPS had shut down I pulled the wrong plug! Heard the
beeps and assumed they were from the correct UPS.



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¯ @MyMetronet.NET ®

... Be a coffee-drinking individual: espresso yourself!
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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!
KM> I must be doin' it wrong... I never plug the UPS into the
KM> computer! Didn't occur to me it might need a *gasp* driver...

You don't?! I find the computer protects the UPS from being damaged by surgres, etc.!!

Is THAT how it works!!

As for the driver, I think the drivers are now part of the kernel, or possibly part of the stuff when see "installing previously not
installed". Plus that reference is quite a few years old.

Ah, probably are by now.

Installed the new UPS last Thursday morning; haven't done anything with
the monitoring and communications with either UPS yet, other than plug
cables into the back panels.

There's my problem... I never plug that USB cable into the PC. (Is that
port surge-protected??????) I'm so rarely ... never? not home to deal
with power out, that I don't really care about autoshutdown.

However, I have thereby acquired a good collection of USB cables, useful
for printers and such...

Did find something when I plugged the new UPS in: old one had the power
cord than plugs into the back so left in place for the new one. New one
is hard-wired so removed the original cord. ...Why is it marked
"UPS2"?? It's UPS1! So when I had pulled the plug to test after the
first time the UPS had shut down I pulled the wrong plug! Heard the
beeps and assumed they were from the correct UPS.

Just pick a power cord and random and hope it's attached to something!
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Hi Ky!

As for the driver, I think the drivers are now part of the kernel, or possibly part of the stuff when see "installing previously not
installed". Plus that reference is quite a few years old.

Ah, probably are by now.

I kind of thought one of the advantages of *NIX over Windows was the
'main part' was separate/independent of everything else. The other
parts were essentially optional. (Overly simplified, but what do you
want on a half-mug of cofee so far? <g>)

Installed the new UPS last Thursday morning; haven't done anything with
the monitoring and communications with either UPS yet, other than plug cables into the back panels.

There's my problem... I never plug that USB cable into the PC.
(Is that port surge-protected??????) I'm so rarely ... never? not
home to deal with power out, that I don't really care about
autoshutdown.

I haven't done a thing with auto-shutdown (yet); again now usually home,
if not still shouldn't have to be concerned as the generator is supposed
to kick in (since installed no power outages; barely any blinks!).
Mainly the software was installed to be able to check on the battery.
And in the case of the defective UPS handy way to grab the information.

However, I have thereby acquired a good collection of USB cables,
useful for printers and such...

Even the special ones with the Ethernet-type connectors on one end?!

Did find something when I plugged the new UPS in: old one had the power
cord than plugs into the back so left in place for the new one. New one
is hard-wired so removed the original cord. ...Why is it marked
"UPS2"?? It's UPS1! So when I had pulled the plug to test after the
first time the UPS had shut down I pulled the wrong plug! Heard the
beeps and assumed they were from the correct UPS.

Just pick a power cord and random and hope it's attached to
something!

I have been trying to label things like power cords and wall warts as to
what they go to. Sometimes the labels fall off.

Up here also have what seems like should be an unnecessary extension
cord as it plugs in at one outlet and ends by the other one. And yes,
stuff is plugged into the second outlet and other stuff to the extension
cord, and yes, those items could be plugged into the second outlet.

Nope, they're on the same circuit, so same breaker.

Reasoning is the UPSs' filtering interfere with the X10 controller:
severely attenuates the signal so the two have to be separated. "Oddly"
the ten feet or so between outlets is sufficient. (There are 120 KHz
filters but didn't work for that; they do work in other parts of the
house.)



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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

> As for the driver, I think the drivers are now part of the kernel, or
> possibly part of the stuff when see "installing previously not
> installed". Plus that reference is quite a few years old.
KM> Ah, probably are by now.

I kind of thought one of the advantages of *NIX over Windows was the
'main part' was separate/independent of everything else. The other
parts were essentially optional. (Overly simplified, but what do you
want on a half-mug of cofee so far? <g>)

Linux drivers are in the kernel because back in the original days, linux performance was so utterly glacial that drivers had to integrated into
to the kernel to get it to boot within your lifetime. It was a bad
design decision then, and it's not any better now, but we're kinda stuck
with it. Learning to optimize performance and a distro-agnostic driver
API layer would have been much more sensible, and linux wouldn't have
had that long period where whether it would work with your perfectly
standard hardware was a bad-odds crapshoot (and it's still not 100%;
yonder is my Epson scanner, NOT SUPPORTED even tho it's been their most popular small business model for the past ten years). Vendor doesn't
provide a religiously-blessed (open source) driver for their hardware?
You're SOL. Maintainer decides to remove a driver? You're SOL. (I
remember when VESA 1.2 support was removed, and half the vidcards still
being sold no longer worked.)

Or you deal with problems like the current tangle of nVidia drivers, and
hope the Nouveau driver works if one of the others doesn't.

We don't see much on the user end now because enough have been added
that most hardware works OOTB, and we no longer have to hand-configure
drivers (usually), but it's a foundational problem in linux.

And it's not been that long go that if you moved a linux install HD to
another PC, or swapped out the video card, that killed it dead and unresurrectable due to driver conflicts (and the steaming pile of shims
that is the X11 video server. Wayland is better-designed, but still a bugfest.) Now I can move some of 'em and they'll reconfigure drivers to
the new hardware, but it's not universal.

> Installed the new UPS last Thursday morning; haven't done anything with
> the monitoring and communications with either UPS yet, other than plug
> cables into the back panels.
KM> There's my problem... I never plug that USB cable into the PC.
KM> (Is that port surge-protected??????) I'm so rarely ... never? not
KM> home to deal with power out, that I don't really care about
KM> autoshutdown.

I haven't done a thing with auto-shutdown (yet); again now usually home,
if not still shouldn't have to be concerned as the generator is supposed
to kick in (since installed no power outages; barely any blinks!).

What sort of generator do you have?

I'd like to have one that would run off natural gas since that's
unlikely to fail, but $$$$. Need to replace woodstove first. (Dunno why
but it won't draw at all, and me with 20 years heating with wood/coal
ain't the problem. Might be the flue is too big for the stove.) Would
like to have one that does both pellets and chunks.

Especially having noted that right now Walmart has pellets half price by
the pallet.

Mainly the software was installed to be able to check on the battery.
And in the case of the defective UPS handy way to grab the information.

Yeah, that has utility. They get tired and show no sign until woah, why
did the power go out and 30 seconds later the UPS beeped and died?

KM> However, I have thereby acquired a good collection of USB cables,
KM> useful for printers and such...

Even the special ones with the Ethernet-type connectors on one end?!

That square connector? Most printers use that. I've never seen one with
an ethernet-type plug!

KM> Just pick a power cord and random and hope it's attached to
KM> something!

I have been trying to label things like power cords and wall warts as to
what they go to. Sometimes the labels fall off.

<looks behind Cash and Moonbase, sees 3 power strips and ~40 cables>

Um, lost cause...

I once counted the tangle behind Argo and Dink, who shared a printer and
a KVM. The cable count was 26.

Up here also have what seems like should be an unnecessary extension
cord as it plugs in at one outlet and ends by the other one. And yes,
stuff is plugged into the second outlet and other stuff to the extension cord, and yes, those items could be plugged into the second outlet.

I have that situation because this house has only one outlet with a good ground. So ALL the computer-anything comes off that outlet. Along with
the microwave. They don't seem to mind sharing.

Nope, they're on the same circuit, so same breaker.

Reasoning is the UPSs' filtering interfere with the X10 controller:
severely attenuates the signal so the two have to be separated. "Oddly"
the ten feet or so between outlets is sufficient. (There are 120 KHz
filters but didn't work for that; they do work in other parts of the
house.)

Yeah, sometimes there's quirky stuff like that. I had a bizarre tangle
in my first Lancaster house due to funky issues with phone jacks vs
outlets. After much trial and error and a lot of daisy-chaining, finally
got it to all work and never dared touch it again.


... Behind every great computer lies... a mess of wires!!
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Hi Ky!

> As for the driver, I think the drivers are now part of the kernel, or
> possibly part of the stuff when see "installing previously not
> installed". Plus that reference is quite a few years old.
KM> Ah, probably are by now.
I kind of thought one of the advantages of *NIX over Windows was the
'main part' was separate/independent of everything else. The other
parts were essentially optional. (Overly simplified, but what do you
want on a half-mug of cofee so far? <g>)

Linux drivers are in the kernel because back in the original
days, linux performance was so utterly glacial that drivers had
to integrated into to the kernel to get it to boot within your
lifetime. It was a bad design decision then, and it's not any
better now, but we're kinda stuck with it.

Lots of things are based on antique designs: distance between car tires
was set by the space between the two horses going down the road in Roman
times.

I don't know anywhere near the information to make a proper guess but
seems some sort of integrated into the OS has to be done just so
something will show on the display. Make the change to the better/nicer- looking/more specific driver later.

period where whether it would work with your perfectly standard
hardware was a bad-odds crapshoot (and it's still not 100%;
yonder is my Epson scanner, NOT SUPPORTED even tho it's been
their most popular small business model for the past ten years).

Yes, that's a major problem: manufacturer can't or won't give the
details on how the device works, either someone has to reverse-engineer
or create their own driver. To me sounds like the manufacturer is
excluding a large portion of the market but may not have much of a
choice: possibly bound by legal agreements or afraid release of the
details would make it too easy for competitors to steal a process.

Or you deal with problems like the current tangle of nVidia
drivers, and hope the Nouveau driver works if one of the others
doesn't.

Yes, the nVidia drive on my Lenovo laptop worked fine with 18.04;
updated to 20.04 and their driver no longer works.

And it's not been that long go that if you moved a linux install
HD to another PC, or swapped out the video card, that killed it
dead and unresurrectable due to driver conflicts (and the
steaming pile of shims that is the X11 video server. Wayland is better-designed, but still a bugfest.) Now I can move some of 'em
and they'll reconfigure drivers to the new hardware, but it's not universal.

I haven't done that in ages but to my way of thinking almost expected:
it's not the same system. Should not die: the system should still work,
just complain and fall back to the generic driver.

> Installed the new UPS last Thursday morning; haven't done anything with
> the monitoring and communications with either UPS yet, other than plug
> cables into the back panels.
KM> There's my problem... I never plug that USB cable into the PC.
KM> (Is that port surge-protected??????) I'm so rarely ... never? not
KM> home to deal with power out, that I don't really care about
KM> autoshutdown.
I haven't done a thing with auto-shutdown (yet); again now usually home,
if not still shouldn't have to be concerned as the generator is supposed
to kick in (since installed no power outages; barely any blinks!).

What sort of generator do you have?

Skippy the Hamster in a running wheel connected to a bicycle generator! <rs>! No: Generac 16KW running on natural gas (the house has NG appliances).
A little noisy; was sort-of looking for something with a Honda engine as supposedly quiet (had heard they were used at the John Deere Golf
Tournament across the River). Since the generator was installed no
power outages; barely any blinks.

I'd like to have one that would run off natural gas since that's
unlikely to fail, but $$$$. Need to replace woodstove first.
(Dunno why but it won't draw at all, and me with 20 years heating
with wood/coal ain't the problem. Might be the flue is too big
for the stove.) Would like to have one that does both pellets and
chunks.

Have seen pellet stoves; that's about it: seen 'em! LIS the house has
NG, so made sense to use for the back-up power. Storing that amount of gasoline just sounds dangerous; and going out and getting more may not be
an option: roads blocked, gas station might not have power for their
pumps.

Over the years I had considered a 'partial home' generator: just power a
few basic areas: kitchen (mainly because of the refrigerator), the
Computer Room (if I'm paying for a generator I'm getting something extra
out of it!), the bedroom, the Sitting Room (Den -- no idea why it's
called by the old term) because the TV we usually watch is in there, the kitchenette area in the basement (freezer and refrigerator). Years
later by the time got round to actually getting things going on a
generator the price difference between a (say) 8KW unit for the partial-
house configuration and 16 KW whole-house unit wasn't that much
different. Pricing might have been a bit skewed by then as supply chain
issues were noticeable.

.

Especially having noted that right now Walmart has pellets half
price by the pallet.

Buy Now! Give the termites a home for summer!

Mainly the software was installed to be able to check on the battery.
And in the case of the defective UPS handy way to grab the information.

Yeah, that has utility. They get tired and show no sign until
woah, why did the power go out and 30 seconds later the UPS
beeped and died?

BTDT! Have several old UPSs, know several if not all have some sort of warning light when the battery is about to fail but I don't recall any
doing so.

KM> However, I have thereby acquired a good collection of USB cables,
KM> useful for printers and such...

Even the special ones with the Ethernet-type connectors on one end?!

That square connector? Most printers use that. I've never seen
one with an ethernet-type plug!

KM> Just pick a power cord and random and hope it's attached to
KM> something!

I have been trying to label things like power cords and wall warts as to what they go to. Sometimes the labels fall off.

<looks behind Cash and Moonbase, sees 3 power strips and ~40
cables>

Um, lost cause...

I once counted the tangle behind Argo and Dink, who shared a
printer and a KVM. The cable count was 26.

Up here also have what seems like should be an unnecessary extension
cord as it plugs in at one outlet and ends by the other one. And yes,
stuff is plugged into the second outlet and other stuff to the extension cord, and yes, those items could be plugged into the second outlet.

I have that situation because this house has only one outlet with
a good ground. So ALL the computer-anything comes off that
outlet. Along with the microwave. They don't seem to mind
sharing.

Nope, they're on the same circuit, so same breaker.

Reasoning is the UPSs' filtering interfere with the X10 controller:
severely attenuates the signal so the two have to be separated. "Oddly"
the ten feet or so between outlets is sufficient. (There are 120 KHz filters but didn't work for that; they do work in other parts of the
house.)

Yeah, sometimes there's quirky stuff like that. I had a bizarre
tangle in my first Lancaster house due to funky issues with phone
jacks vs outlets. After much trial and error and a lot of
daisy-chaining, finally got it to all work and never dared touch
it again.

... Behind every great computer lies... a mess of wires!!

¯ BarryMartin3@ ®
¯ @MyMetronet.NET ®

... The English language has been developing for more than 1,400 years.
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47
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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

KM> Linux drivers are in the kernel because back in the original
KM> days, linux performance was so utterly glacial that drivers had
KM> to integrated into to the kernel to get it to boot within your
KM> lifetime. It was a bad design decision then, and it's not any
KM> better now, but we're kinda stuck with it.

Lots of things are based on antique designs: distance between car tires
was set by the space between the two horses going down the road in Roman times.

When the antique design becomes crippling, it's time to redesign it.
Width of a vehicle is convenient at somewhere between 4 and 6 feet no
matter the era. Drivers in the kernel? Not so much.

I don't know anywhere near the information to make a proper guess but
seems some sort of integrated into the OS has to be done just so
something will show on the display. Make the change to the better/nicer- looking/more specific driver later.

That's the video server, whatever it's properly called. X11 if your
distro hasn't switched to Wayland yet. Everything in the kernel, except
for the forty-'leven layers that all have to jury-rig connections to
every other part so they'll all work! X11 is basically a pile of shims
(hence extremely slow compared to other ways of doing video); Wayland is
still buggy, but at least from a design perspective, a significant improvement.

A few years back someone did a video that explained all this, and ...
X11 was as if you have to blow out the roof vent and turn on the laundry faucet before flushing the toilet, it's got that type of inefficient communication. And I was like... no wonder there's so much video lag on
older hardware.....

KM> period where whether it would work with your perfectly standard
KM> hardware was a bad-odds crapshoot (and it's still not 100%;
KM> yonder is my Epson scanner, NOT SUPPORTED even tho it's been
KM> their most popular small business model for the past ten years).

Yes, that's a major problem: manufacturer can't or won't give the
details on how the device works, either someone has to reverse-engineer
or create their own driver. To me sounds like the manufacturer is
excluding a large portion of the market but may not have much of a
choice: possibly bound by legal agreements or afraid release of the
details would make it too easy for competitors to steal a process.

Epson made source code available a long time ago. It's still on their
site. I found it and pointed our maintainer at it; he said he's added it
to our repo tho it hadn't propagated yet last time I checked.

KM> Or you deal with problems like the current tangle of nVidia
KM> drivers, and hope the Nouveau driver works if one of the others
KM> doesn't.

Yes, the nVidia drive on my Lenovo laptop worked fine with 18.04;
updated to 20.04 and their driver no longer works.

Yep... in that case try the Nouveau driver and hope for the best!

KM> And it's not been that long go that if you moved a linux install
KM> HD to another PC, or swapped out the video card, that killed it
KM> dead and unresurrectable due to driver conflicts (and the
KM> steaming pile of shims that is the X11 video server. Wayland is
KM> better-designed, but still a bugfest.) Now I can move some of 'em
KM> and they'll reconfigure drivers to the new hardware, but it's not
KM> universal.

I haven't done that in ages but to my way of thinking almost expected:
it's not the same system. Should not die: the system should still work,
just complain and fall back to the generic driver.

The problem is that when drivers are internal to the kernel, unless the
OS has a mechanism for checking this, not loading what doesn't work, and recompiling correct drivers on the spot, it's going to fail.

It's the same problem (tho one step more internalized) as when Windows
would throw up permanently because of exposure to a new motherboard.

KM> What sort of generator do you have?

Skippy the Hamster in a running wheel connected to a bicycle generator! <rs>!

Ah, just as I suspected. Gotta put those squirrelkin to work!

No: Generac 16KW running on natural gas (the house has NG appliances).
A little noisy; was sort-of looking for something with a Honda engine as supposedly quiet (had heard they were used at the John Deere Golf
Tournament across the River). Since the generator was installed no
power outages; barely any blinks.

Dunno about now but in the olden days it was thus:

Briggs and Stratton generator, buck-naked and noisy, $800.

Honda generator, actually a B&S generator in a nice noise-reducing frame
and a better paint job, $2000.

Yeah, some are quieter than others. Some of the RV generators are really
good now. Others... well... but I'm guessing you could put some
noise-reducing panels around it and suck up some of the decibels.

KM> I'd like to have one that would run off natural gas since that's
KM> unlikely to fail, but $$$$. Need to replace woodstove first.
KM> (Dunno why but it won't draw at all, and me with 20 years heating
KM> with wood/coal ain't the problem. Might be the flue is too big
KM> for the stove.) Would like to have one that does both pellets and
KM> chunks.

Have seen pellet stoves; that's about it: seen 'em! LIS the house has

Yeah, seen 'em! <g>

NG, so made sense to use for the back-up power. Storing that amount of gasoline just sounds dangerous; and going out and getting more may not be

Not especially, but it really doesn't go very far. NG is better when
you've got the choice.

an option: roads blocked, gas station might not have power for their
pumps.

And NG so much cheaper. Besides, if NG is off, chances are every other
energy source has already been eaten by the zombie apocalypse.

Over the years I had considered a 'partial home' generator: just power a
few basic areas: kitchen (mainly because of the refrigerator), the
Computer Room (if I'm paying for a generator I'm getting something extra
out of it!), the bedroom, the Sitting Room (Den -- no idea why it's

LOL, yeah :) I've thought about solar panels just to support the
computers, figuring since their power goes through a UPS, it might not
matter so much where it comes from.

called by the old term) because the TV we usually watch is in there, the kitchenette area in the basement (freezer and refrigerator). Years
later by the time got round to actually getting things going on a
generator the price difference between a (say) 8KW unit for the partial- house configuration and 16 KW whole-house unit wasn't that much
different. Pricing might have been a bit skewed by then as supply chain issues were noticeable.

By the time you build the engine and put the inverter on it, it doesn't
make that much difference if it's size X or size Y.

KM> Especially having noted that right now Walmart has pellets half
KM> price by the pallet.

Buy Now! Give the termites a home for summer!

Haha, yeah, that's a problem...

> Mainly the software was installed to be able to check on the battery.
> And in the case of the defective UPS handy way to grab the information.
KM> Yeah, that has utility. They get tired and show no sign until
KM> woah, why did the power go out and 30 seconds later the UPS
KM> beeped and died?
BTDT! Have several old UPSs, know several if not all have some sort of warning light when the battery is about to fail but I don't recall any
doing so.

Not a single hint, ever, 4 different brands.

However, I do have a large number of dead UPS batteries. When Things
Fall Apart, lead will be valuable! <g>
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Hi Ky!

KM> Linux drivers are in the kernel because back in the original
KM> days, linux performance was so utterly glacial that drivers had
KM> to integrated into to the kernel to get it to boot within your
KM> lifetime. It was a bad design decision then, and it's not any
KM> better now, but we're kinda stuck with it.
Lots of things are based on antique designs: distance between car tires
was set by the space between the two horses going down the road in Roman times.

When the antique design becomes crippling, it's time to redesign
it. Width of a vehicle is convenient at somewhere between 4 and 6
feet no matter the era. Drivers in the kernel? Not so much.

Probably so. My guess as to why not happening is the probably non- compatability with what's currently being used, but then the whole
purpose is to make it faster and easier to use drivers, so instead of
the driver being in the kernel they're in the next layer -- esssentially
same kernel, essentially same driver, just just no longer combined.

I don't know anywhere near the information to make a proper guess but
seems some sort of integrated into the OS has to be done just so
something will show on the display. Make the change to the better/nicer- looking/more specific driver later.

That's the video server, whatever it's properly called. X11 if
your distro hasn't switched to Wayland yet. Everything in the
kernel, except for the forty-'leven layers that all have to
jury-rig connections to every other part so they'll all work! X11
is basically a pile of shims (hence extremely slow compared to
other ways of doing video); Wayland is still buggy, but at least
from a design perspective, a significant improvement.

Apparantly the 18.04 and 20.04 systems here are running the default
Xorg based on a quick Google search. I wasn't able able to quickly find
the command to verify but if installed by default and I know I didn't do anything to change....

A few years back someone did a video that explained all this, and
... X11 was as if you have to blow out the roof vent and turn on
the laundry faucet before flushing the toilet, it's got that type
of inefficient communication. And I was like... no wonder there's
so much video lag on older hardware.....

<laffing to self> Remember the old King Kong/Godzilla type movies?
Actor's mouth moves, then hear what saying (translation of course).

KM> period where whether it would work with your perfectly standard
KM> hardware was a bad-odds crapshoot (and it's still not 100%;
KM> yonder is my Epson scanner, NOT SUPPORTED even tho it's been
KM> their most popular small business model for the past ten years).
Yes, that's a major problem: manufacturer can't or won't give the
details on how the device works, either someone has to reverse-engineer
or create their own driver. To me sounds like the manufacturer is
excluding a large portion of the market but may not have much of a
choice: possibly bound by legal agreements or afraid release of the
details would make it too easy for competitors to steal a process.

Epson made source code available a long time ago. It's still on
their site. I found it and pointed our maintainer at it; he said
he's added it to our repo tho it hadn't propagated yet last time
I checked.

Good idea: have a local source, which also serves as an unofficial
backup of the main site. Probably not an issue with Epson but there
have been plenty of smaller companies which have had hardware failures
or simply closed shop and the users were left hanging.

KM> Or you deal with problems like the current tangle of nVidia
KM> drivers, and hope the Nouveau driver works if one of the others
KM> doesn't.

Yes, the nVidia drive on my Lenovo laptop worked fine with 18.04;
updated to 20.04 and their driver no longer works.

Yep... in that case try the Nouveau driver and hope for the best!

KM> And it's not been that long go that if you moved a linux install
KM> HD to another PC, or swapped out the video card, that killed it
KM> dead and unresurrectable due to driver conflicts (and the
KM> steaming pile of shims that is the X11 video server. Wayland is
KM> better-designed, but still a bugfest.) Now I can move some of 'em
KM> and they'll reconfigure drivers to the new hardware, but it's not
KM> universal.
I haven't done that in ages but to my way of thinking almost expected:
it's not the same system. Should not die: the system should still work, just complain and fall back to the generic driver.

The problem is that when drivers are internal to the kernel,
unless the OS has a mechanism for checking this, not loading what
doesn't work, and recompiling correct drivers on the spot, it's
going to fail.

True: sort of an off-target example but had a bad RAM stick on this
system when I was bringing it up. Installer would just stop. Probably
didn't know how to get around the problem.

It's the same problem (tho one step more internalized) as when
Windows would throw up permanently because of exposure to a new motherboard.

Yup: 'locked' to the one set of hardware. On one hand makes sense to
prevent unauthorized use (sharing of keys type of thing), but sure makes
it a PITA to upgrade equipment!

KM> What sort of generator do you have?
Skippy the Hamster in a running wheel connected to a bicycle generator!

!

Ah, just as I suspected. Gotta put those squirrelkin to work!

They're off playing on the utility pole!

No: Generac 16KW running on natural gas (the house has NG appliances).
A little noisy; was sort-of looking for something with a Honda engine as supposedly quiet (had heard they were used at the John Deere Golf
Tournament across the River). Since the generator was installed no
power outages; barely any blinks.

Dunno about now but in the olden days it was thus:
Briggs and Stratton generator, buck-naked and noisy, $800.

Now all sorts of fancy stuff: noise reduction (somewhat), interlocks,
WiFi to remotely check status....

Honda generator, actually a B&S generator in a nice
noise-reducing frame and a better paint job, $2000.
Yeah, some are quieter than others. Some of the RV generators are
really good now. Others... well... but I'm guessing you could put
some noise-reducing panels around it and suck up some of the
decibels.

No one has complained, especially the right-next-door neighbour.
Figured if they did I'd bribe a bit by plugging in an extension cord and
let them have a little of the generated electricity. They're on the
same pole transformer as we are, so if we don't have power they probably
won't either.

KM> I'd like to have one that would run off natural gas since that's
KM> unlikely to fail, but $$$$. Need to replace woodstove first.
KM> (Dunno why but it won't draw at all, and me with 20 years heating
KM> with wood/coal ain't the problem. Might be the flue is too big
KM> for the stove.) Would like to have one that does both pellets and
KM> chunks.
Have seen pellet stoves; that's about it: seen 'em! LIS the house has

Yeah, seen 'em! <g>

Not feel 'em? -- I see the flames but don't feel any warmth!

NG, so made sense to use for the back-up power. Storing that amount of gasoline just sounds dangerous; and going out and getting more may not be

Not especially, but it really doesn't go very far. NG is better
when you've got the choice.

Theoretically unlimited supply as long as nothing happens to the
distribution system!

an option: roads blocked, gas station might not have power for their
pumps.

And NG so much cheaper. Besides, if NG is off, chances are every
other energy source has already been eaten by the zombie
apocalypse.

Pretty much what I figure. There have been and will continue to be
those major whoopsies: contractor in middle of no-where: I don't need no steenkin' survey! <dig> <clink! Psssssssss>

Over the years I had considered a 'partial home' generator: just power a
few basic areas: kitchen (mainly because of the refrigerator), the
Computer Room (if I'm paying for a generator I'm getting something extra
out of it!), the bedroom, the Sitting Room (Den -- no idea why it's

LOL, yeah :) I've thought about solar panels just to support the computers, figuring since their power goes through a UPS, it
might not matter so much where it comes from.

I don't think this house has enough running roof to make solar panels worthwhile. I do have some 'camping' solar panels; was going to do
something like you mentioned to charge the batteries in a UPS or two to
have a bit of power. Worked reasonaly well if outside, inside (to
protect the panel - not made for constant exposure) had a few problems:
window glass has a UV block. Solar panels need UV. The only old glass
was a glass block window getting sunlight is in the basement. It only
got sufficient sun for about two hours in the Summer.

Some sort of protected outside installation was considered but that's
about as far as that went.

called by the old term) because the TV we usually watch is in there, the kitchenette area in the basement (freezer and refrigerator). Years
later by the time got round to actually getting things going on a
generator the price difference between a (say) 8KW unit for the partial- house configuration and 16 KW whole-house unit wasn't that much
different. Pricing might have been a bit skewed by then as supply chain issues were noticeable.

By the time you build the engine and put the inverter on it, it
doesn't make that much difference if it's size X or size Y.

Essentially right. We got a call shortly after signing for a 13 KW
generator: "hey, if you spend an additional $37 you can get a 16 KW
version." "$37 a month?" "No - $37 total!" "Heck yeah!"

KM> Especially having noted that right now Walmart has pellets half
KM> price by the pallet.
Buy Now! Give the termites a home for summer!

Haha, yeah, that's a problem...

And possibly snakes, though might be more for stacked wood.

> Mainly the software was installed to be able to check on the battery.
> And in the case of the defective UPS handy way to grab the information.
KM> Yeah, that has utility. They get tired and show no sign until
KM> woah, why did the power go out and 30 seconds later the UPS
KM> beeped and died?
BTDT! Have several old UPSs, know several if not all have some sort of warning light when the battery is about to fail but I don't recall any
doing so.

Not a single hint, ever, 4 different brands.

Probably work like the Lo Batt icon in the thermostat in the hallway (for
the furnace and air conditioning): doesn't come on until the batteries
are too discharged. Doesn't show up in winter and summer when
constantly used; have seen it in Spring and Fall when don't need to run
the system and so not being used.

However, I do have a large number of dead UPS batteries. When
Things Fall Apart, lead will be valuable! <g>

Staple all those the little sheets together to protect from the
radiation!



¯ BarryMartin3@ ®
¯ @MyMetronet.NET ®

... Slicker than snot on a glass doorknob.
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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!
KM> When the antique design becomes crippling, it's time to redesign
KM> it. Width of a vehicle is convenient at somewhere between 4 and 6
KM> feet no matter the era. Drivers in the kernel? Not so much.

Probably so. My guess as to why not happening is the probably non- compatability with what's currently being used, but then the whole
purpose is to make it faster and easier to use drivers, so instead of
the driver being in the kernel they're in the next layer -- esssentially
same kernel, essentially same driver, just just no longer combined.

Gee, just like Windows does it!

Apparantly the 18.04 and 20.04 systems here are running the default
Xorg based on a quick Google search. I wasn't able able to quickly find

https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-general-1/x-xorg-and-x11-866327/

the command to verify but if installed by default and I know I didn't do anything to change....

Apparently ubuntu has a tool called screenfetch, which looks like a
customized htop.

https://www.sysnettechsolutions.com/en/check-system-information-ubuntu-18-04-lts/

KM> A few years back someone did a video that explained all this, and
KM> ... X11 was as if you have to blow out the roof vent and turn on
KM> the laundry faucet before flushing the toilet, it's got that type
KM> of inefficient communication. And I was like... no wonder there's
KM> so much video lag on older hardware.....

<laffing to self> Remember the old King Kong/Godzilla type movies?
Actor's mouth moves, then hear what saying (translation of course).

Or anything from Bollywood today :D

KM> Epson made source code available a long time ago. It's still on
KM> their site. I found it and pointed our maintainer at it; he said
KM> he's added it to our repo tho it hadn't propagated yet last time
KM> I checked.

Good idea: have a local source, which also serves as an unofficial
backup of the main site. Probably not an issue with Epson but there
have been plenty of smaller companies which have had hardware failures
or simply closed shop and the users were left hanging.

drivercollection.com is great for Windows (and there are several other
similar driver archives), but I don't know of any equivalent for
linux... either the hardware vendor has something, the kernel has
something, or you're SOL.

True: sort of an off-target example but had a bad RAM stick on this
system when I was bringing it up. Installer would just stop. Probably didn't know how to get around the problem.

That's a critical stop no matter what program or OS is running.

KM> It's the same problem (tho one step more internalized) as when
KM> Windows would throw up permanently because of exposure to a new
KM> motherboard.

Yup: 'locked' to the one set of hardware. On one hand makes sense to
prevent unauthorized use (sharing of keys type of thing), but sure makes
it a PITA to upgrade equipment!

Nope, this was the I/O driver had to match, and because it was compiled
into the VDM, you couldn't just swap it out. This was happening long
before keys. Conversely, Win7 and onward will usually tolerate being
swapped to new hardware, tho you might need to re-slap the activation.

> No: Generac 16KW running on natural gas (the house has NG appliances).
> A little noisy; was sort-of looking for something with a Honda engine as
> supposedly quiet (had heard they were used at the John Deere Golf
> Tournament across the River). Since the generator was installed no
> power outages; barely any blinks.
KM> Dunno about now but in the olden days it was thus:
KM> Briggs and Stratton generator, buck-naked and noisy, $800.
Now all sorts of fancy stuff: noise reduction (somewhat), interlocks,
WiFi to remotely check status....

And to allow hackers access! <g>

No one has complained, especially the right-next-door neighbour.
Figured if they did I'd bribe a bit by plugging in an extension cord and
let them have a little of the generated electricity. They're on the
same pole transformer as we are, so if we don't have power they probably won't either.

That sounds like a plan... where is the generator, anyway? if I were to
add one here, in the basement and using the same vent makes sense to me (there's even a gas pipe to nowhere that could be used), but not sure if
it's allowed. My sister's is out in the well shack.

> Have seen pellet stoves; that's about it: seen 'em! LIS the house has
KM> Yeah, seen 'em! <g>
Not feel 'em? -- I see the flames but don't feel any warmth!

I didn't stick my hand inside....

> NG, so made sense to use for the back-up power. Storing that amount of
> gasoline just sounds dangerous; and going out and getting more may not be
KM> Not especially, but it really doesn't go very far. NG is better
KM> when you've got the choice.

Theoretically unlimited supply as long as nothing happens to the
distribution system!

Yeah, that. So long as no one busts a pipe or turns off a valve, it
should keep working.

KM> LOL, yeah :) I've thought about solar panels just to support the
KM> computers, figuring since their power goes through a UPS, it
KM> might not matter so much where it comes from.

I don't think this house has enough running roof to make solar panels worthwhile. I do have some 'camping' solar panels; was going to do

Probably not for the whole house, but I have a very convenient SW-facing
roof area that would support enough for all the PCs and similar crap.

And there's also the barn roof that faces the same way.

Essentially right. We got a call shortly after signing for a 13 KW generator: "hey, if you spend an additional $37 you can get a 16 KW
version." "$37 a month?" "No - $37 total!" "Heck yeah!"

HECK YEAH!!

> KM> Especially having noted that right now Walmart has pellets half
> KM> price by the pallet.
> Buy Now! Give the termites a home for summer!
KM> Haha, yeah, that's a problem...
And possibly snakes, though might be more for stacked wood.

Haven't seen that but I did pull bark off a stump and out jumps a garter snake!! How the heck did you get in that little crack??

KM> However, I do have a large number of dead UPS batteries. When
KM> Things Fall Apart, lead will be valuable! <g>
Staple all those the little sheets together to protect from the
radiation!

I have enough for a very nice lead suit. <g>
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Hi Ky!

KM> When the antique design becomes crippling, it's time to redesign
KM> it. Width of a vehicle is convenient at somewhere between 4 and 6
KM> feet no matter the era. Drivers in the kernel? Not so much.
Probably so. My guess as to why not happening is the probably non- compatability with what's currently being used, but then the whole
purpose is to make it faster and easier to use drivers, so instead of
the driver being in the kernel they're in the next layer -- esssentially same kernel, essentially same driver, just just no longer combined.

Gee, just like Windows does it!

Great minds run in the same gutter! Not necessarily 'borrowing' each
others' ideas but more coming up with essentially the same idea at the
same time.

Apparantly the 18.04 and 20.04 systems here are running the default
Xorg based on a quick Google search. I wasn't able able to quickly find

https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-general-1/x-xorg-an d-x11-866327/

Apparantly they've been working on it for a while: "(though Ubuntu is
working on migrating to a different system called Wayland)" from the
March 3, 2011 post.

the command to verify but if installed by default and I know I didn't do anything to change....

Apparently ubuntu has a tool called screenfetch, which looks like
a customized htop. https://www.sysnettechsolutions.com/en/check-system-information-ub untu-18-04-lt
/

Looks interesting -- I'll play with it later.

KM> A few years back someone did a video that explained all this, and
KM> ... X11 was as if you have to blow out the roof vent and turn on
KM> the laundry faucet before flushing the toilet, it's got that type
KM> of inefficient communication. And I was like... no wonder there's
KM> so much video lag on older hardware.....
<laffing to self> Remember the old King Kong/Godzilla type movies?
Actor's mouth moves, then hear what saying (translation of course).

Or anything from Bollywood today :D

Wonder if the instructor has sent a dancer to the rest room to wash their
hands for posing improperly? Each/most positionings are supposed to
mean something.

KM> Epson made source code available a long time ago. It's still on
KM> their site. I found it and pointed our maintainer at it; he said
KM> he's added it to our repo tho it hadn't propagated yet last time
KM> I checked.
Good idea: have a local source, which also serves as an unofficial
backup of the main site. Probably not an issue with Epson but there
have been plenty of smaller companies which have had hardware failures
or simply closed shop and the users were left hanging.

drivercollection.com is great for Windows (and there are several
other similar driver archives), but I don't know of any
equivalent for linux... either the hardware vendor has something,
the kernel has something, or you're SOL.

I haven't stumbled across any collection site either.

True: sort of an off-target example but had a bad RAM stick on this
system when I was bringing it up. Installer would just stop. Probably didn't know how to get around the problem.

That's a critical stop no matter what program or OS is running.

What was 'funny' is sometime it did manage to do the installation --
usually the 'Try Me' option -- and actually run - for a short while.
Other times very quickly halted. Guess all where the data was placed at
the time.

> No: Generac 16KW running on natural gas (the house has NG appliances).
> A little noisy; was sort-of looking for something with a Honda engine as
> supposedly quiet (had heard they were used at the John Deere Golf
> Tournament across the River). Since the generator was installed no
> power outages; barely any blinks.
KM> Dunno about now but in the olden days it was thus:
KM> Briggs and Stratton generator, buck-naked and noisy, $800.
Now all sorts of fancy stuff: noise reduction (somewhat), interlocks,
WiFi to remotely check status....

And to allow hackers access! <g>

Nah: they access through the remote-read option of the electric, gas
and water meters!

No one has complained, especially the right-next-door neighbour.
Figured if they did I'd bribe a bit by plugging in an extension cord and
let them have a little of the generated electricity. They're on the
same pole transformer as we are, so if we don't have power they probably won't either.

That sounds like a plan... where is the generator, anyway? if I
were to add one here, in the basement and using the same vent
makes sense to me (there's even a gas pipe to nowhere that could
be used), but not sure if it's allowed. My sister's is out in the
well shack.

Our generator is outside towards the back corner of the house because of
window placement ==> if the window is open don't want the exhaust drawn
into the house.

Your 'gas pipe to nowhere' might or might not be able to be used. At
one time this house had a natural gas air conditioner from a service
station. The guy who owned the house owned several gas stations and
when they added the second span to the original I-74 Bridge (early 70's,
maybe late 60's - I've forgotten) one of his station was in the path of
the new bridge so eventually was torn down; he had the air conditioner
moved to the house -- yes, there's a big cement slab off the house, now
under the deck.

So when getting the generator set up the salesman is shown the old gas
feed -- it terminates about eight/ten feet from where the generator will
be. ...Installer comes to do a site check - gas pipe isn't a large
enough diameter to feed a sufficient amount of natural gas when the
generator starts up: will probably stall. So had to have a new NG pipe installed. (We fought and had the seller pay most of the new pipe price
as their contract said it was satisfactory.)

> Have seen pellet stoves; that's about it: seen 'em! LIS the house has
KM> Yeah, seen 'em! <g>
Not feel 'em? -- I see the flames but don't feel any warmth!

I didn't stick my hand inside....

Probably a smart non-move!

> NG, so made sense to use for the back-up power. Storing that amount of
> gasoline just sounds dangerous; and going out and getting more may not

e

KM> Not especially, but it really doesn't go very far. NG is better
KM> when you've got the choice.
Theoretically unlimited supply as long as nothing happens to the distribution system!

Yeah, that. So long as no one busts a pipe or turns off a valve,
it should keep working.

Right. Hundreds of potential failure points; still have the old back-up
items: hurricane lanterns, flashlights....

KM> LOL, yeah :) I've thought about solar panels just to support the
KM> computers, figuring since their power goes through a UPS, it
KM> might not matter so much where it comes from.
I don't think this house has enough running roof to make solar panels worthwhile. I do have some 'camping' solar panels; was going to do

Probably not for the whole house, but I have a very convenient
SW-facing roof area that would support enough for all the PCs and
similar crap.

That would probably work. I'd add in backup power for the refrigerator
- have a freezer? Could possibly run one at a time to save on the
overall load. Also figure for air conditioning and heat.

And there's also the barn roof that faces the same way.

Darn! Forgot about the shed's roof! 8x10' storage building for the lawn
mower, etc., so whatever surface area that gives the roof. Trouble is
the neighbour's trees block the sunlight.

Essentially right. We got a call shortly after signing for a 13 KW generator: "hey, if you spend an additional $37 you can get a 16 KW version." "$37 a month?" "No - $37 total!" "Heck yeah!"

HECK YEAH!!

<chuckle> (And no, the 3KW larger unit wasn't the cause of the NG pipe
issue -- found out later the installer's paperwork still said 13 KW.)

> KM> Especially having noted that right now Walmart has pellets half
> KM> price by the pallet.
> Buy Now! Give the termites a home for summer!
KM> Haha, yeah, that's a problem...
And possibly snakes, though might be more for stacked wood.

Haven't seen that but I did pull bark off a stump and out jumps a
garter snake!! How the heck did you get in that little crack??

I can flatten my ribs and pretend I'm a mouse!

KM> However, I do have a large number of dead UPS batteries. When
KM> Things Fall Apart, lead will be valuable! <g>
Staple all those the little sheets together to protect from the
radiation!

I have enough for a very nice lead suit. <g>

And your aluminum foil hat will go nicely!



¯ BarryMartin3@ ®
¯ @MyMetronet.NET ®

... I never wear a tinfoil hat: it keeps me from hearing the little voices.
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