Hi Gene!

I'm probably going to be in the market for a used (a.k.a. pre-owned) car
pretty soom -- either that or put another chuck of change into the
present car which is slowly nickel-and-diming the credit cards.

*Lotta* questions to ask first...
-- How much ya wanna spend, tops?
-- Any criteria that's important (looks, gas mileage, seating,
etc.)? -- Oldest car you'd consider (2yrs, 5yrs, 10yrs, more)?

Valid questions, and I've considered those too. Figuring if there's an eHarmony-type of site (referencing an earlier reply) it would ask those questions.

Price -- under $10,000, and that limit is linked to the monthly
payments, so this one is in the important category.

Looks -- sporty-ish. Not necessarily a sports car, but something with a
bit of pizzazz. Colour not overly important.

Gas mileage -- higher the better, though since I generally only drive
around town not overly important -- just don't want a gas-guzzler.
Earlier plans were to trade in for a hybrid car in a few years.

Don't need a lot of seating, so a small/compact car would work there.
OTOH too small and I get a bit concerned about safety. Would take a bit
of eduction to get me into a super-small car, though technically that's
all I need.

Age -- ball-park cut-off is 2000, and that's looking at a 10-year old
car.

Eg, do you care whether Murrrrrrcan or furrin brands? Need a
4-door vs a 2-door? Cargo space (eg, wagon/soov vs trunked
sedan)? AC a must, or don't care? Stick okay, or need
automatic? Looks, ie, stylish, or is a fartmobile okay?
Mileage, need a gas-miser? Blah, blah, blah...

Would lean towards American, though with a used/-pre-owned car I'm
figuring the money is going to the dealer, not the auto maker.

2-door is fine -- have one now, though with 2-doors they're long and
some of the parking spaces get skinny.

Don't really need hauling capacity -- enough for groceries. No real
preference of a trunk vs hatch.

Automatic and air, plus rear window defogger, definately.

And as mentioned earlier, some style to it.

I tend to put not too much faith at all in "brands" anymore, as
most of 'em are crap nowadays. Eg, even a ritzy Land-Rover whose
interior looked and felt *soooooo* nice, a pro who does interiors
pointed out what's underneath and said that they're all mainly
crappy quality. Everything's plastic, held together with snaps
and friction-fit clips, no more screws/bolts anymore. Hell, even
engine parts that were traditionally metal are now more and more
being made of plastic.

I'm not hung-up on a name car - they pretty much all look alike now. As
for the snaps and Velcro, I'd guess because is faster to assemble, plus probably lighter weight. Years ago (and I mean years!!) was test
driving a car and one of the first things I noticed was the brake pedal
was so small! Guess an ounce here, an ounce there....

The big problem (for me) is to narrow down to a couple of brands. I

Nah, see above. "Brands" are almost meaningless. You can get a
lemon or a jewel in any brand, and it's more likely to be luck of
the draw than anything else.

True. Realized that; have heard where ___ model in one line/brand is the
same as the --- model in another line/brand, with a few minor changes.

For a daily-driver, no other issues or pressing needs, I'd
personally recommend a diesel. Rugged as dirt, no timing issues
or distributors or plugs or coils, they just *work*. In cold
climes, glow plugs will do ya, or carry a spray-can of Et2O in

---
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Hi Gene!

True -- the financing people want to be sure their rumps are covered. So

They want their bux in case the car falls off a cliff, but don't
want to have to come after *you* to collect, so they get the
insco to make good on any eventuality. That's a condition of
getting the loan/lease.

It's going to be able to get the money from a group someone (the insurance
company) which has a pool of monies (from the insured clients) than a
single someone (individual) who has a much smaller amount of money.

Ummm, that's what I said, no? You personally can skip out,
declare bankruptcy, etc., but the insco ain't going anywhere
(unless you're Countrywide, haha).

Yes -- just restating in the agreement. ...The aside on Countrywide didn't click -- appanrantly they're no longer to be found anywhere? (And that
was sort of a pun.)

Lookit any daytime judge-show. Idiot lets bigger idiot "buy" a
car only with the payments stretched out over a year or two. Car
crokes, second idiot sez, "I ain't gots the car no mo', so why
should I pay?". Hence, the court case... Whoever holds the note
on a car-loan wants to make sure he gets paid regardless, hence
the condition of requiring complete coverage.

On the one hand it sounds logical - for about one second. <g> "It
bwoke, I ain't payin' for somethin' I can't use." In reality the
transaction should have been pay the whole amount and then get the car;
the seller is doing the buyer a favour by spreading out the payment over
a period of time.

Nfw would I do that, even for a friend or family. Ain't worth
the hassles and aggravation. If the engine or tranny blows up
3wks after they take possession of the car, they can always just
stop paying, thinking you *knew* that was going to happen. Let
them owe a bank or someone else they borrow from, and the
temptation to stop paying would be that much less.

<laff> Pretty much agree. Had one car which I was goint to trade in
and a friend really-really wanted it. "But it has had this-this-and
this done to, and the <other thing> is going out...." "I want it."
"But....." "I want it." "<sigh> Okayyyy....." Think about a year
later something else went wrong and the engine seized. The good news is
the sale cost was low and no harm came out of the friendship.

One key issue about hybrids is that the
batteries are *designed* to be replaced every 5yrs or so *at
most* In my car, that'd mean 3 or more complete replacements by
now. Plus, battery tek is still developing, charging methods
will be upgraded (ie, changed), so might not be that in 4-5yrs
that you'd be able to drop in a direct replacement, as the
batteries might no longer even be made! And different battery
chemistry would mean a new charging circuit, etc.

Oh goodie!

And despite being badmouthed left and right ("memory effect",
"toxic metals", etc.), NiCds are pretty rugged and last a *long*
time, and I'm *still* using an assload of 'em in a variety of
things. NiMH and Li-*, they *all* seem to self-destruct in a few
years. How many laptops have fully functional batteries after
even 3yrs of normal use?

Unfortunately no idea: I'm not even sure sure if anyone I hang around
with has a laptop. ...Friend has really bad time with her cell phone
battery. Phone's been exchanged, charger's been replaced....

I like the *idea* of hybrids, but as a practical matter, unless
you're some rich ecofreak like Ed Begley Jr who can *afford* the
latest tek (probably would just buy a whole new Prius in 5yrs vs
just a battery pack), it doesn't make sense. Fleets, too (cabs,
gummint, etc.) which by law/policy ditch "old" cars after N
years, it might also make sense.

With the low miles I drive might be able to get 6 or 7 years out of the
battery pack, but still is a chunk of change, not to mention the

By then it'd be time to junk the car entirely vs replacing the
batteries, as the value of the car would probably be less than
the cost of new batteries.

And now we have disposable cars!

> <
> Barry_Martin_3@ <
> @MSN.COM <
> <

---
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---
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* Origin: ILink: CCO - capitolcityonline.net (454:3/105)

Hi Gene!

I'm probably going to be in the market for a used (a.k.a. pre-owned) car
pretty soom -- either that or put another chuck of change into the
present car which is slowly nickel-and-diming the credit cards.

*Lotta* questions to ask first...
-- How much ya wanna spend, tops?
-- Any criteria that's important (looks, gas mileage, seating,
etc.)? -- Oldest car you'd consider (2yrs, 5yrs, 10yrs, more)?

Valid questions, and I've considered those too. Figuring if there's an eHarmony-type of site (referencing an earlier reply) it would ask those questions.

Price -- under $10,000, and that limit is linked to the monthly
payments, so this one is in the important category.

Looks -- sporty-ish. Not necessarily a sports car, but something with a
bit of pizzazz. Colour not overly important.

Gas mileage -- higher the better, though since I generally only drive
around town not overly important -- just don't want a gas-guzzler.
Earlier plans were to trade in for a hybrid car in a few years.

Don't need a lot of seating, so a small/compact car would work there.
OTOH too small and I get a bit concerned about safety. Would take a bit
of eduction to get me into a super-small car, though technically that's
all I need.

Age -- ball-park cut-off is 2000, and that's looking at a 10-year old
car.

Eg, do you care whether Murrrrrrcan or furrin brands? Need a
4-door vs a 2-door? Cargo space (eg, wagon/soov vs trunked
sedan)? AC a must, or don't care? Stick okay, or need
automatic? Looks, ie, stylish, or is a fartmobile okay?
Mileage, need a gas-miser? Blah, blah, blah...

Would lean towards American, though with a used/-pre-owned car I'm
figuring the money is going to the dealer, not the auto maker.

2-door is fine -- have one now, though with 2-doors they're long and
some of the parking spaces get skinny.

Don't really need hauling capacity -- enough for groceries. No real
preference of a trunk vs hatch.

Automatic and air, plus rear window defogger, definately.

And as mentioned earlier, some style to it.

I tend to put not too much faith at all in "brands" anymore, as
most of 'em are crap nowadays. Eg, even a ritzy Land-Rover whose
interior looked and felt *soooooo* nice, a pro who does interiors
pointed out what's underneath and said that they're all mainly
crappy quality. Everything's plastic, held together with snaps
and friction-fit clips, no more screws/bolts anymore. Hell, even
engine parts that were traditionally metal are now more and more
being made of plastic.

I'm not hung-up on a name car - they pretty much all look alike now. As
for the snaps and Velcro, I'd guess because is faster to assemble, plus probably lighter weight. Years ago (and I mean years!!) was test
driving a car and one of the first things I noticed was the brake pedal
was so small! Guess an ounce here, an ounce there....

The big problem (for me) is to narrow down to a couple of brands. I

Nah, see above. "Brands" are almost meaningless. You can get a
lemon or a jewel in any brand, and it's more likely to be luck of
the draw than anything else.

True. Realized that; have heard where ___ model in one line/brand is the
same as the --- model in another line/brand, with a few minor changes.

For a daily-driver, no other issues or pressing needs, I'd
personally recommend a diesel. Rugged as dirt, no timing issues
or distributors or plugs or coils, they just *work*. In cold
climes, glow plugs will do ya, or carry a spray-can of Et2O in

---
* ILink: The Safe BBS * Bettendorf, IA
* RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS * Los Angeles, Ca * www.techware.dynip.com

--- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462
# Origin: ILink: CFBBS | cfbbs.dtdns.net | 856-933-7096 (454:1/1)

---
* BgNet 1.0b12 = Capitol City Online * KY/US * 502/875-8938 * cco.ath.cx
* Origin: ILink: CCO - capitolcityonline.net (454:3/105)

Hi Gene!

True -- the financing people want to be sure their rumps are covered. So

They want their bux in case the car falls off a cliff, but don't
want to have to come after *you* to collect, so they get the
insco to make good on any eventuality. That's a condition of
getting the loan/lease.

It's going to be able to get the money from a group someone (the insurance
company) which has a pool of monies (from the insured clients) than a
single someone (individual) who has a much smaller amount of money.

Ummm, that's what I said, no? You personally can skip out,
declare bankruptcy, etc., but the insco ain't going anywhere
(unless you're Countrywide, haha).

Yes -- just restating in the agreement. ...The aside on Countrywide didn't click -- appanrantly they're no longer to be found anywhere? (And that
was sort of a pun.)

Lookit any daytime judge-show. Idiot lets bigger idiot "buy" a
car only with the payments stretched out over a year or two. Car
crokes, second idiot sez, "I ain't gots the car no mo', so why
should I pay?". Hence, the court case... Whoever holds the note
on a car-loan wants to make sure he gets paid regardless, hence
the condition of requiring complete coverage.

On the one hand it sounds logical - for about one second. <g> "It
bwoke, I ain't payin' for somethin' I can't use." In reality the
transaction should have been pay the whole amount and then get the car;
the seller is doing the buyer a favour by spreading out the payment over
a period of time.

Nfw would I do that, even for a friend or family. Ain't worth
the hassles and aggravation. If the engine or tranny blows up
3wks after they take possession of the car, they can always just
stop paying, thinking you *knew* that was going to happen. Let
them owe a bank or someone else they borrow from, and the
temptation to stop paying would be that much less.

<laff> Pretty much agree. Had one car which I was goint to trade in
and a friend really-really wanted it. "But it has had this-this-and
this done to, and the <other thing> is going out...." "I want it."
"But....." "I want it." "<sigh> Okayyyy....." Think about a year
later something else went wrong and the engine seized. The good news is
the sale cost was low and no harm came out of the friendship.

One key issue about hybrids is that the
batteries are *designed* to be replaced every 5yrs or so *at
most* In my car, that'd mean 3 or more complete replacements by
now. Plus, battery tek is still developing, charging methods
will be upgraded (ie, changed), so might not be that in 4-5yrs
that you'd be able to drop in a direct replacement, as the
batteries might no longer even be made! And different battery
chemistry would mean a new charging circuit, etc.

Oh goodie!

And despite being badmouthed left and right ("memory effect",
"toxic metals", etc.), NiCds are pretty rugged and last a *long*
time, and I'm *still* using an assload of 'em in a variety of
things. NiMH and Li-*, they *all* seem to self-destruct in a few
years. How many laptops have fully functional batteries after
even 3yrs of normal use?

Unfortunately no idea: I'm not even sure sure if anyone I hang around
with has a laptop. ...Friend has really bad time with her cell phone
battery. Phone's been exchanged, charger's been replaced....

I like the *idea* of hybrids, but as a practical matter, unless
you're some rich ecofreak like Ed Begley Jr who can *afford* the
latest tek (probably would just buy a whole new Prius in 5yrs vs
just a battery pack), it doesn't make sense. Fleets, too (cabs,
gummint, etc.) which by law/policy ditch "old" cars after N
years, it might also make sense.

With the low miles I drive might be able to get 6 or 7 years out of the
battery pack, but still is a chunk of change, not to mention the

By then it'd be time to junk the car entirely vs replacing the
batteries, as the value of the car would probably be less than
the cost of new batteries.

And now we have disposable cars!

> <
> Barry_Martin_3@ <
> @MSN.COM <
> <

---
* ILink: The Safe BBS * Bettendorf, IA
* RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS * Los Angeles, Ca * www.techware.dynip.com

--- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462
# Origin: ILink: CFBBS | cfbbs.dtdns.net | 856-933-7096 (454:1/1)

---
* BgNet 1.0b12 = Capitol City Online * KY/US * 502/875-8938 * cco.ath.cx
* Origin: ILink: CCO - capitolcityonline.net (454:3/105)