Hi Gene!

Yes -- just restating in the agreement. ...The aside on Countrywide

didn't

click -- appanrantly they're no longer to be found anywhere? (And that
was sort of a pun.)

They're the ones who were "riding high" for the longest time,
then crashed'n'burned bigtime and went into bankruptcy. No idea
if they still be in business or bit it for good.

Ah -- OK. I don't recall hearing any commercials for Countrywide lately
so either doing real well and don't need to advertise, merged with
another company, or went belly-up.

Nfw would I do that, even for a friend or family. Ain't worth

<snip>

the sale cost was low and no harm came out of the friendship.

As long as you put it into writing what was wrong, that it was
sold as-is, etc., no one should complain. Still, even for
personal sales, make sure you p&m that you don't want to sell it
to a friend in front of a few witnesses, so that should you get
badmouthed after-the-fact, you at least have a few other people
to back up *your* story.

Didn't do any of that and still friends, though the car bit the dust.
Good suggestions about having witnesses though -- not all endings come
out the same -- don't want to wend up on one of those Judge shows on TV!

And regardless, *ALWAYS* get paid in full, nothing on "layaway"
or other "on-time" payments. Can always use the excuse, "Sorry,

The money issue would probably injure a friendship more than a bum car.

> <
> Barry_Martin_3@ <
> @MSN.COM <
> <

... Urbanite's Lament: Parking is such street sorrow.
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And regardless, *ALWAYS* get paid in full, nothing on "layaway"
or other "on-time" payments. Can always use the excuse, "Sorry,

The money issue would probably injure a friendship more than a bum car.

There's nothing wrong with saying, "Hey, I *need* the bux now, all of
it. If you don't have it, that's okay, I'll sell it to someone else,
because I don't want to put you out...".

A real friend wouldn't screw you over on the bux, but it's better to
simply not put yourself in the situation where it'd become a temptation, either.
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Hi Gene!

And regardless, *ALWAYS* get paid in full, nothing on "layaway"
or other "on-time" payments. Can always use the excuse, "Sorry,

The money issue would probably injure a friendship more than a bum car.

There's nothing wrong with saying, "Hey, I *need* the bux now,
all of it. If you don't have it, that's okay, I'll sell it to
someone else, because I don't want to put you out...".
A real friend wouldn't screw you over on the bux, but it's better
to simply not put yourself in the situation where it'd become a temptation, either.

Right. One needs to 100% separate the friend from the customer.

> <
> Barry_Martin_3@ <
> @MSN.COM <
> <

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And regardless, *ALWAYS* get paid in full, nothing on "layaway"
or other "on-time" payments. Can always use the excuse, "Sorry,

Even better, is my rule:

Never do business with friends. It's bad business!
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And regardless, *ALWAYS* get paid in full, nothing on "layaway"
or other "on-time" payments. Can always use the excuse, "Sorry,

The money issue would probably injure a friendship more than a bum car. GK>There's nothing wrong with saying, "Hey, I *need* the bux now,

all of it. If you don't have it, that's okay, I'll sell it to
someone else, because I don't want to put you out...".
A real friend wouldn't screw you over on the bux, but it's better
to simply not put yourself in the situation where it'd become a GK>temptation, either.

Right. One needs to 100% separate the friend from the customer.

Unfortunately, though, sometimes they come to you as friend *and*
customer, typically hoping to get a better "deal" than from a stranger,
or even the "comfort" of knowing you'd "take care" of him/her in case something'd go wrong, like, I got the car, only can't pay you because I
lost my job or I didn't get the big bonus I was expecting, etc.

That's when you gotta completely separate the two, even being a hardass
about it, saying, "Look, I'll do what I can, but I *NEED* X bux for the
car, and can't really cut you *or anyone* any slack.". Also, no
"payment terms", no fuzzy language like "I'll pay you back when I get my tax-refund check" or "...when I get a new job", *nothing* like that.

Lis, separate the two by dumping it on the frustomer, "Tellyawhat, this
is what I'm asking for the car, and what I *need* to get for it. I
understand you won't be able to pay for it up-front, but I *can't* let
you pay for it in bits'n'pieces, as I need to pay *my own* bills, so if
you can get yourself a loan, whether from a bank, family, whatever, and
pay me, then sure, I'll be glad to sell it to you, but I just can't
afford to get stuck without the car to sell *and* without the cash I
need for it, so if you can't get the bux I'm asking for it, that's okay,
I'll just sell it to someone who can.".
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Even better, is my rule:
Never do business with friends. It's bad business!

That and "Don't 'loan' bux to any friend, unless you don't expect to
ever get it back.", so you won't be disappointed at all when he/she
stiffs you.

But yeah, I wouldn't do that, either, unless I were willing to literally
give it away.
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That and "Don't 'loan' bux to any friend, unless you don't expect to
ever get it back.", so you won't be disappointed at all when he/she
stiffs you.

PPL will pay the rent, light bill, etc. before they'll pay you, b/c the landlord
will kick them out and the electric co. will shut your lights off. It's
simple
logic....you will always come in last, and so that's why it's not a good idea to
loan $$ to friends.

OTOH, a contractor friend did a project for me for "free". But any time he needs something bought on the Internet, I get a call....."Hey! Can you buy
me such-and-such and I'll give you a check tomorrow." I never see the
check. When I ask, I get, "Do you know how much that job cost me? Why,
blah blah blah..." Of course, I eat it b/c I know he's right, but in principle, it
sucks. Moral. Deal with everything up front. It works better in the long run.
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Hi Gene!

Right. One needs to 100% separate the friend from the customer.

Unfortunately, though, sometimes they come to you as friend *and* customer, typically hoping to get a better "deal" than from a
stranger, or even the "comfort" of knowing you'd "take care" of
him/her in case something'd go wrong, like, I got the car, only
can't pay you because I lost my job or I didn't get the big bonus
I was expecting, etc.
That's when you gotta completely separate the two, even being a
hardass about it, saying, "Look, I'll do what I can, but I *NEED*
X bux for the car, and can't really cut you *or anyone* any
slack.". Also, no "payment terms", no fuzzy language like "I'll
pay you back when I get my tax-refund check" or "...when I get a
new job", *nothing* like that.

And even if worded the paper contract to give specific terms and
conditions (including punitive ones such as late fees), the friend part
would argue (and probably win) over the customer part and let things
slide.

> <
> Barry_Martin_3@ <
> @MSN.COM <
> <

... Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it.
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That and "Don't 'loan' bux to any friend, unless you don't expect to ever get it back.", so you won't be disappointed at all when he/she stiffs you.

PPL will pay the rent, light bill, etc. before they'll pay you, b/c the

landlord

will kick them out and the electric co. will shut your lights off. It's

simple

logic....you will always come in last, and so that's why it's not a good

idea to

loan $$ to friends.

OTOH, a contractor friend did a project for me for "free". But any time

he

needs something bought on the Internet, I get a call....."Hey! Can you

buy

me such-and-such and I'll give you a check tomorrow." I never see the check. When I ask, I get, "Do you know how much that job cost me? Why, blah blah blah..." Of course, I eat it b/c I know he's right, but in

principle, it

sucks. Moral. Deal with everything up front. It works better in the

long run.

I'm guessing only the young and idealistic would do it any other way.
I've learned my lesson (back when I was young and impressionable) and
lent out money to friends only to never see it come back. Decided that
the lesson was worth the lost money. There were a few times I lent money
to family and friends with no expectation of getting repaid. Got repaid
once, and that came as a surprise (bordering on shock).

Similarly when it came time to buy a Mac computer from a friend at
work, the deal was quite simple: I didn't see the computer until he saw my money. We both got what we want AND we remained friends.

So simple, really.
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On 1/4/2010 11:02 AM, DOUG POWLESS wrote to DAN GULLEY:

Ah, Doug....How y'doin' man? Anything new in Loveland? Ever get that new
car you were lusting after? How are things in the land of ice and snow?
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Maybe

check in with Dan Clay (I think that's where he's living now).

How are things down your way?

Same-0, same-0. So did Dan ever follow up on keeping ppl posted on his adventures? Do you know fer shure what he's doing now? Still seems radical that he'd leave a thriving (and well-paying) medical practice just to go off and leave for primitive living circumstances, but ppl do funny things
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Ah, Doug....How y'doin' man? Anything new in Loveland? Ever get that new car you were lusting after? How are things in the land of ice and snow?

Hey Dan. No to the first two questions. As to the third - feeling
pretty much like a hermit. I don't look or feel old but man I'm telling ya
- my tolerance for cold seems to be less and less as the years go by. Dreaming these days about making a move to Panama or something. Maybe
check in with Dan Clay (I think that's where he's living now).

How are things down your way?
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Maybe

check in with Dan Clay (I think that's where he's living now).

How are things down your way?

Same-0, same-0. So did Dan ever follow up on keeping ppl posted on his adventures? Do you know fer shure what he's doing now? Still seems

radical

that he'd leave a thriving (and well-paying) medical practice just to go

off

and leave for primitive living circumstances, but ppl do funny things

I think he kept in touch with the Sibleys over the years, and as far as
I know he and his wife stayed there in Panama. They're not the only
ones I know who are migrating there either, and Panama is openly
canvassing for people with steady incomes (i.e. pensioners) to relocate there.

It's such a beautiful area, fairly modern and as cheap as all get out to
live there.
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Hi Gene!

That's when you gotta completely separate the two, even being a
hardass about it, saying, "Look, I'll do what I can, but I *NEED*
X bux for the car, and can't really cut you *or anyone* any
slack.". Also, no "payment terms", no fuzzy language like "I'll
pay you back when I get my tax-refund check" or "...when I get a
new job", *nothing* like that.

And even if worded the paper contract to give specific terms and
conditions (including punitive ones such as late fees), the friend part
would argue (and probably win) over the customer part and let things
slide.

Who's talking about any contract? I'm saying to *avoid* any such
thing, and make it a simple "You give me X bux and I give you the
car, *AS IS*." and that's it. If he wants to make "terms", let
him do that with someone else but give *you* the bux up-front.

I'm thinking of examples where the lending party would be willing to set
up a contract such as a parent loaning money to a child.

> <
> Barry_Martin_3@ <
> @MSN.COM <
> <

... Is your sole purpose in life simply to serve as a warning to others?
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That and "Don't 'loan' bux to any friend, unless you don't expect to
ever get it back.", so you won't be disappointed at all when he/she GK>stiffs you.

PPL will pay the rent, light bill, etc. before they'll pay you, b/c the landl
will kick them out and the electric co. will shut your lights off. It's simp
logic....you will always come in last, and so that's why it's not a good idea
loan $$ to friends.

Ummm, that's what I said...

Yeah, unless you know someone enough that you're willing to *give*
him/her the bux, don't even go through the motions of a "loan".

*IF* you intend to sell the car, then put someone else on the hook, also
as I mentioned. Ie, let him borrow the bux from the bank or from family
or someone else, as long as it ain't you, and you get the bux up-front,
and let the other sucker be on the hook.

OTOH, a contractor friend did a project for me for "free". But any time he DG>needs something bought on the Internet, I get a call....."Hey! Can you buy DG>me such-and-such and I'll give you a check tomorrow." I never see the DG>check. When I ask, I get, "Do you know how much that job cost me? Why, DG>blah blah blah..." Of course, I eat it b/c I know he's right, but in princip
sucks. Moral. Deal with everything up front. It works better in the long r

TANSTAAFL.

Can always keep "forgetting" to order it, or order the wrong thing
(something that *you'd* want), say, "Hey, I ordered it weeks ago, what
do you mean you didn't get it??", etc. Or, simply let your CC "expire"
and not be able to order anything anymore, "even for myself", or more
simply, "My card got declined!!!".
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That's when you gotta completely separate the two, even being a
hardass about it, saying, "Look, I'll do what I can, but I *NEED*
X bux for the car, and can't really cut you *or anyone* any
slack.". Also, no "payment terms", no fuzzy language like "I'll
pay you back when I get my tax-refund check" or "...when I get a
new job", *nothing* like that.

And even if worded the paper contract to give specific terms and BM>conditions (including punitive ones such as late fees), the friend part BM>would argue (and probably win) over the customer part and let things BM>slide.

Who's talking about any contract? I'm saying to *avoid* any such thing,
and make it a simple "You give me X bux and I give you the car, *AS
IS*." and that's it. If he wants to make "terms", let him do that with
someone else but give *you* the bux up-front.
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You're still alive!!

I'm guessing only the young and idealistic would do it any other way. DP>I've learned my lesson (back when I was young and impressionable) and DP>lent out money to friends only to never see it come back. Decided that DP>the lesson was worth the lost money. There were a few times I lent money DP>to family and friends with no expectation of getting repaid. Got repaid DP>once, and that came as a surprise (bordering on shock).

Yeh, that's pretty much it. Don't "loan" any bux unless you're willing
to just never see it again, period. Getting repaid is a bonus.

Similarly when it came time to buy a Mac computer from a friend at
work, the deal was quite simple: I didn't see the computer until he saw my DP>money. We both got what we want AND we remained friends.

Yeh, a simple prisoner-exchange...

So simple, really.

Absolutely.
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You're still alive!!

*checks pulse* *looks in mirror, just to be safe*

Yup.

Similarly when it came time to buy a Mac computer from a friend at DP>work, the deal was quite simple: I didn't see the computer until he

saw my

money. We both got what we want AND we remained friends.

Yeh, a simple prisoner-exchange...

Prisoner exchange. :) Seems about right.
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Who's talking about any contract? I'm saying to *avoid* any such
thing, and make it a simple "You give me X bux and I give you the
car, *AS IS*." and that's it. If he wants to make "terms", let
him do that with someone else but give *you* the bux up-front.

I'm thinking of examples where the lending party would be willing to set BM>up a contract such as a parent loaning money to a child.

Oh.

Wellp, I goess that's why God invented those daytime court-shows...
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You're still alive!!

*checks pulse* *looks in mirror, just to be safe*
Yup.

Hey, with all the vampyre movies and teevee shows coming out as of
late...

Similarly when it came time to buy a Mac computer from a friend at
work, the deal was quite simple: I didn't see the computer until he saw DP>money. We both got what we want AND we remained friends.

Yeh, a simple prisoner-exchange...

Prisoner exchange. :) Seems about right.

It's da troof. Like when they make each one slowly walk towards the
other party, so neither side can make a last-second grab for both
without starting a shootout.

Keeps both sides honest...
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Hi Gene!

Who's talking about any contract? I'm saying to *avoid* any such
thing, and make it a simple "You give me X bux and I give you the
car, *AS IS*." and that's it. If he wants to make "terms", let
him do that with someone else but give *you* the bux up-front.

I'm thinking of examples where the lending party would be willing to set
up a contract such as a parent loaning money to a child.

Oh.
Wellp, I goess that's why God invented those daytime
court-shows... ---

Of course I didn't say _I_ was loaning out my money!

> <
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Hi Folks!

Sort of a weird question, especially considering the usual poster in this conference probably is can do this in their sleep.

I'm probably going to be in the market for a used (a.k.a. pre-owned) car
pretty soom -- either that or put another chuck of change into the
present car which is slowly nickel-and-diming the credit cards.

The big problem (for me) is to narrow down to a couple of brands. I
don't really want to go into a dealer and have the following
conversation "Hi! Whatcha lookin' for?" "I dunno." "Have a brand preference?" "Not really." ....

So, wondering if there is something on-line to help select/educate -- so
at least I can go in and say "Hi! I'm sort of leaning towards the Honda
Zombie or something similar. Want A/C, automatic transmission [Gene just quivered!], rear window defogger...."

There are more than a handful of dealerships on both sides of the River
here (the Iowa Quad Cities and the Illinois Quad Cities) and I can add
another shovelful by driving to the smaller towns surrounding the
cities. Admittedly don't have the time nor the interest -- and by the
time I visit three or four I'll be totally confused.

...When I bought the current car I 'cheated': the salesperson was the
husband of someone I knew from the store. "Come over at 3:30 and I'll
have a few cars for you." Ended up with #3.

TIA!

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So, wondering if there is something on-line to help select/educate

www.edmunds.com

Look under "used," pick a brand, read the Edmunds review, the go to the user reviews. All of the good/bad info you could ever ask for.
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Hi Dan!

So, wondering if there is something on-line to help select/educate

www.edmunds.com
Look under "used," pick a brand, read the Edmunds review, the go
to the user reviews. All of the good/bad info you could ever ask
for.

Thanks; will look at that. Was thinking more along the lines of what
eHarmony (alledgedly) does: I like this, this and that; don't like these things. <data crunching> You'll like 1, 2, and 3.

> <
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I'm probably going to be in the market for a used (a.k.a. pre-owned) car BM>pretty soom -- either that or put another chuck of change into the BM>present car which is slowly nickel-and-diming the credit cards.

*Lotta* questions to ask first...

-- How much ya wanna spend, tops?
-- Any criteria that's important (looks, gas mileage, seating, etc.)?
-- Oldest car you'd consider (2yrs, 5yrs, 10yrs, more)?

Eg, do you care whether Murrrrrrcan or furrin brands? Need a 4-door vs
a 2-door? Cargo space (eg, wagon/soov vs trunked sedan)? AC a must, or
don't care? Stick okay, or need automatic? Looks, ie, stylish, or is a fartmobile okay? Mileage, need a gas-miser? Blah, blah, blah...

What about use? This gonna be only for you, a daily-driver just to/from
work and maybe shopping? Or you expecting to haul a lotta crap and need
lots of interior room?

*Must* be from a dealer, or a private sale would be acceptable? Can
save a bundle from a private sale (no warranty, though), as long as you
bring along a mechanic to check out the car first.

I tend to put not too much faith at all in "brands" anymore, as most of
'em are crap nowadays. Eg, even a ritzy Land-Rover whose interior
looked and felt *soooooo* nice, a pro who does interiors pointed out
what's underneath and said that they're all mainly crappy quality. Everything's plastic, held together with snaps and friction-fit clips,
no more screws/bolts anymore. Hell, even engine parts that were
traditionally metal are now more and more being made of plastic.

The big problem (for me) is to narrow down to a couple of brands. I

Nah, see above. "Brands" are almost meaningless. You can get a lemon
or a jewel in any brand, and it's more likely to be luck of the draw
than anything else.

For a daily-driver, no other issues or pressing needs, I'd personally
recommend a diesel. Rugged as dirt, no timing issues or distributors or
plugs or coils, they just *work*. In cold climes, glow plugs will do
ya, or carry a spray-can of Et2O in case it's stubborn. Can get some
seriously impressive mileage out of 'em, and the engine will likely
outlive you and me put together.

One... I *think* it was a Volvo C30 or something... came in a miserly
diesel that could get something like 62mpg(!!!), whereas the gasoline
version was like 28-29 or something. I was looking for one here, and no
one seems to carry it, though, as it might be a Europe-only version.
**WHY** isn't that being sold *here*, then??

If all you care about is 4-wheels in a wrapper, any econobox will do, so
if you want to get some road-rat like a Yarus or whatever, that may suit
you just fine. A cow-orker has/had a Ford Focus that seemed pretty
decent. If you don't care about the wrapper, hey, a motorcycle can work
just fine. Keep the current car for bad weather and keep additional wear'n'tear to a minimum, take the bike most of the time otherwise.
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Motorcycle would have to have electric start

They're all electric start now.

Even *I* figgered as much. Can't recall in any recent memory someone
doing the start-dance.

Wouldn't recommend a m/c for the following....

Winter. Nuff said.

I know people who do just fine in winter. Thermals, plus stuff the
jacket with crumpled-up newspaper. Only major problem is the hands,
that *no* glove keeps your hands warm in a 50mph wind when it's
sub-freezing outside.

Minimal carrying capacity.

As a commuter, hey, who's gonna bike-pool? Don't forget, I only
recommended he get a bike as an *adjunct* to the car, not to *replace*
it. So on crappy days, sure, take the car, but otherwise, use the bike
and minimise wear'n'tear on the car.

High learning curve.

*Experience*, yeah, but shouldn't be that hard to just get moving.

I've never exclusively had a m/c since the '70's. Wouldn't think of it.

See above. At least in my *present* situation, though, I could probably
do it. Can work from home in a pinch, take a bus otherwise (huge
time-waster, but could do it, and have, a few times). Things like
shopping, though, forget it. How much could I carry in saddlebags?
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GENE KWIECINSKI wrote to DAN GULLEY <=-

Motorcycle would have to have electric start

They're all electric start now.

Minimal carrying capacity.

times). Things like shopping, though, forget it. How much could
I carry in saddlebags? ---

<laff> Yeah: I stopped at the grocery store after my dr's appointment to
pick up a few things. They packed it in two bags -- wonder if they
would have fit in the saddlebags? ....Obviously depends on the size of
the saddlebags and the contents of the grocery bags.

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Funny how they never tell you the actual price you'd pay, only
the payments per month.

I know a guy who was a new-car salesman and he told me that he was
amazed when he first got in the biz, how many ppl would come in the dealership, choose a car, and then tell him, "I don't need to know the total price, just tell me how much the payments will be."

Amazing....

When I bought my current vehicle in '06, I did so over the 'net. Did a bunch of research to find out what the going price was, haggled with the salesman over the cost of options, etc. Finally agreed on a price and gave him a check

on delivery from my Home Equity account. According to others, I got a
pretty good deal, but if I had just asked what the payments were....Ack!
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Hi Dan!

Funny how they never tell you the actual price you'd pay, only
the payments per month.

I know a guy who was a new-car salesman and he told me that he
was amazed when he first got in the biz, how many ppl would come
in the dealership, choose a car, and then tell him, "I don't need
to know the total price, just tell me how much the payments will
be."
Amazing....

Wow. I want to know both figures. (Say) $250 a month adds up!

While a low monthly payment is nice it could mean (more likely probably
means) the total payment on a reasonably-priced car has become an
astronomical total.

> <
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True -- the financing people want to be sure their rumps are covered. So

They want their bux in case the car falls off a cliff, but don't
want to have to come after *you* to collect, so they get the
insco to make good on any eventuality. That's a condition of
getting the loan/lease.

It's going to be able to get the money from a group someone (the insurance BM>company) which has a pool of monies (from the insured clients) than a BM>single someone (individual) who has a much smaller amount of money.

Ummm, that's what I said, no? You personally can skip out, declare
bankruptcy, etc., but the insco ain't going anywhere (unless you're Countrywide, haha).

Lookit any daytime judge-show. Idiot lets bigger idiot "buy" a
car only with the payments stretched out over a year or two. Car
crokes, second idiot sez, "I ain't gots the car no mo', so why
should I pay?". Hence, the court case... Whoever holds the note
on a car-loan wants to make sure he gets paid regardless, hence
the condition of requiring complete coverage.

On the one hand it sounds logical - for about one second. <g> "It
bwoke, I ain't payin' for somethin' I can't use." In reality the BM>transaction should have been pay the whole amount and then get the car; BM>the seller is doing the buyer a favour by spreading out the payment over BM>a period of time.

Nfw would I do that, even for a friend or family. Ain't worth the
hassles and aggravation. If the engine or tranny blows up 3wks after
they take possession of the car, they can always just stop paying,
thinking you *knew* that was going to happen. Let them owe a bank or
someone else they borrow from, and the temptation to stop paying would
be that much less.

One key issue about hybrids is that the
batteries are *designed* to be replaced every 5yrs or so *at
most* In my car, that'd mean 3 or more complete replacements by
now. Plus, battery tek is still developing, charging methods
will be upgraded (ie, changed), so might not be that in 4-5yrs
that you'd be able to drop in a direct replacement, as the
batteries might no longer even be made! And different battery
chemistry would mean a new charging circuit, etc.

Oh goodie!

And despite being badmouthed left and right ("memory effect", "toxic
metals", etc.), NiCds are pretty rugged and last a *long* time, and I'm
*still* using an assload of 'em in a variety of things. NiMH and Li-*,
they *all* seem to self-destruct in a few years. How many laptops have
fully functional batteries after even 3yrs of normal use?

I like the *idea* of hybrids, but as a practical matter, unless
you're some rich ecofreak like Ed Begley Jr who can *afford* the
latest tek (probably would just buy a whole new Prius in 5yrs vs
just a battery pack), it doesn't make sense. Fleets, too (cabs,
gummint, etc.) which by law/policy ditch "old" cars after N
years, it might also make sense.

With the low miles I drive might be able to get 6 or 7 years out of the BM>battery pack, but still is a chunk of change, not to mention the

By then it'd be time to junk the car entirely vs replacing the
batteries, as the value of the car would probably be less than the cost
of new batteries.
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It's going to be able to get the money from a group someone (the insurance BM>company) which has a pool of monies (from the insured clients) than a BM>single someone (individual) who has a much smaller amount of money.

Ummm, that's what I said, no? You personally can skip out,
declare bankruptcy, etc., but the insco ain't going anywhere
(unless you're Countrywide, haha).

Yes -- just restating in the agreement. ...The aside on Countrywide didn't BM>click -- appanrantly they're no longer to be found anywhere? (And that BM>was sort of a pun.)

They're the ones who were "riding high" for the longest time, then crashed'n'burned bigtime and went into bankruptcy. No idea if they
still be in business or bit it for good.

Nfw would I do that, even for a friend or family. Ain't worth
the hassles and aggravation. If the engine or tranny blows up
3wks after they take possession of the car, they can always just
stop paying, thinking you *knew* that was going to happen. Let
them owe a bank or someone else they borrow from, and the
temptation to stop paying would be that much less.

<laff> Pretty much agree. Had one car which I was goint to trade in
and a friend really-really wanted it. "But it has had this-this-and
this done to, and the <other thing>is going out...." "I want it." BM>"But....." "I want it." "<sigh>Okayyyy....." Think about a year
later something else went wrong and the engine seized. The good news is BM>the sale cost was low and no harm came out of the friendship.

As long as you put it into writing what was wrong, that it was sold
as-is, etc., no one should complain. Still, even for personal sales,
make sure you p&m that you don't want to sell it to a friend in front of
a few witnesses, so that should you get badmouthed after-the-fact, you
at least have a few other people to back up *your* story.

And regardless, *ALWAYS* get paid in full, nothing on "layaway" or other "on-time" payments. Can always use the excuse, "Sorry, but I need the
bux *now* for something, so if you can't pay in full, I'll have to sell
it to someone who *can*.". This way, if he/she still wants it, let him
get the bux from a 3rd-party, so that *you* don't get burned.

No matter how "friendly" someone is, *always* make sure your own ass is covered, so that you can a) avoid court in the first place (most
important!), but failing that, b) make sure if it *does* get to court,
you got an airtight claim.

And despite being badmouthed left and right ("memory effect",
"toxic metals", etc.), NiCds are pretty rugged and last a *long*
time, and I'm *still* using an assload of 'em in a variety of
things. NiMH and Li-*, they *all* seem to self-destruct in a few
years. How many laptops have fully functional batteries after
even 3yrs of normal use?

Unfortunately no idea: I'm not even sure sure if anyone I hang around BM>with has a laptop. ...Friend has really bad time with her cell phone BM>battery. Phone's been exchanged, charger's been replaced....

At this point, other'n the dos-box I do this email on, everything else I
have is *only* laptops.

Motorola phone? Was a class-action suit about the charging connector(s)
that phones didn't charge the batteries correctly, something like that,
so those who had Moto phones could get some bux back and/or free
replacement. Only heard that in passing, so you can goggle it on your
own if it was in fact a Moto phone.

With the low miles I drive might be able to get 6 or 7 years out of the BM>battery pack, but still is a chunk of change, not to mention the

By then it'd be time to junk the car entirely vs replacing the
batteries, as the value of the car would probably be less than
the cost of new batteries.

And now we have disposable cars!

Pretty much.
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Hi Gene!

Yes -- just restating in the agreement. ...The aside on Countrywide

didn't

click -- appanrantly they're no longer to be found anywhere? (And that
was sort of a pun.)

They're the ones who were "riding high" for the longest time,
then crashed'n'burned bigtime and went into bankruptcy. No idea
if they still be in business or bit it for good.

Ah -- OK. I don't recall hearing any commercials for Countrywide lately
so either doing real well and don't need to advertise, merged with
another company, or went belly-up.

Nfw would I do that, even for a friend or family. Ain't worth

<snip>

the sale cost was low and no harm came out of the friendship.

As long as you put it into writing what was wrong, that it was
sold as-is, etc., no one should complain. Still, even for
personal sales, make sure you p&m that you don't want to sell it
to a friend in front of a few witnesses, so that should you get
badmouthed after-the-fact, you at least have a few other people
to back up *your* story.

Didn't do any of that and still friends, though the car bit the dust.
Good suggestions about having witnesses though -- not all endings come
out the same -- don't want to wend up on one of those Judge shows on TV!

And regardless, *ALWAYS* get paid in full, nothing on "layaway"
or other "on-time" payments. Can always use the excuse, "Sorry,

The money issue would probably injure a friendship more than a bum car.

> <
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> @MSN.COM <
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And regardless, *ALWAYS* get paid in full, nothing on "layaway"
or other "on-time" payments. Can always use the excuse, "Sorry,

The money issue would probably injure a friendship more than a bum car.

There's nothing wrong with saying, "Hey, I *need* the bux now, all of
it. If you don't have it, that's okay, I'll sell it to someone else,
because I don't want to put you out...".

A real friend wouldn't screw you over on the bux, but it's better to
simply not put yourself in the situation where it'd become a temptation, either.
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Hi Gene!

And regardless, *ALWAYS* get paid in full, nothing on "layaway"
or other "on-time" payments. Can always use the excuse, "Sorry,

The money issue would probably injure a friendship more than a bum car.

There's nothing wrong with saying, "Hey, I *need* the bux now,
all of it. If you don't have it, that's okay, I'll sell it to
someone else, because I don't want to put you out...".
A real friend wouldn't screw you over on the bux, but it's better
to simply not put yourself in the situation where it'd become a temptation, either.

Right. One needs to 100% separate the friend from the customer.

> <
> Barry_Martin_3@ <
> @MSN.COM <
> <

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And regardless, *ALWAYS* get paid in full, nothing on "layaway"
or other "on-time" payments. Can always use the excuse, "Sorry,

Even better, is my rule:

Never do business with friends. It's bad business!
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And regardless, *ALWAYS* get paid in full, nothing on "layaway"
or other "on-time" payments. Can always use the excuse, "Sorry,

The money issue would probably injure a friendship more than a bum car. GK>There's nothing wrong with saying, "Hey, I *need* the bux now,

all of it. If you don't have it, that's okay, I'll sell it to
someone else, because I don't want to put you out...".
A real friend wouldn't screw you over on the bux, but it's better
to simply not put yourself in the situation where it'd become a GK>temptation, either.

Right. One needs to 100% separate the friend from the customer.

Unfortunately, though, sometimes they come to you as friend *and*
customer, typically hoping to get a better "deal" than from a stranger,
or even the "comfort" of knowing you'd "take care" of him/her in case something'd go wrong, like, I got the car, only can't pay you because I
lost my job or I didn't get the big bonus I was expecting, etc.

That's when you gotta completely separate the two, even being a hardass
about it, saying, "Look, I'll do what I can, but I *NEED* X bux for the
car, and can't really cut you *or anyone* any slack.". Also, no
"payment terms", no fuzzy language like "I'll pay you back when I get my tax-refund check" or "...when I get a new job", *nothing* like that.

Lis, separate the two by dumping it on the frustomer, "Tellyawhat, this
is what I'm asking for the car, and what I *need* to get for it. I
understand you won't be able to pay for it up-front, but I *can't* let
you pay for it in bits'n'pieces, as I need to pay *my own* bills, so if
you can get yourself a loan, whether from a bank, family, whatever, and
pay me, then sure, I'll be glad to sell it to you, but I just can't
afford to get stuck without the car to sell *and* without the cash I
need for it, so if you can't get the bux I'm asking for it, that's okay,
I'll just sell it to someone who can.".
---
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Even better, is my rule:
Never do business with friends. It's bad business!

That and "Don't 'loan' bux to any friend, unless you don't expect to
ever get it back.", so you won't be disappointed at all when he/she
stiffs you.

But yeah, I wouldn't do that, either, unless I were willing to literally
give it away.
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That and "Don't 'loan' bux to any friend, unless you don't expect to
ever get it back.", so you won't be disappointed at all when he/she
stiffs you.

PPL will pay the rent, light bill, etc. before they'll pay you, b/c the landlord
will kick them out and the electric co. will shut your lights off. It's
simple
logic....you will always come in last, and so that's why it's not a good idea to
loan $$ to friends.

OTOH, a contractor friend did a project for me for "free". But any time he needs something bought on the Internet, I get a call....."Hey! Can you buy
me such-and-such and I'll give you a check tomorrow." I never see the
check. When I ask, I get, "Do you know how much that job cost me? Why,
blah blah blah..." Of course, I eat it b/c I know he's right, but in principle, it
sucks. Moral. Deal with everything up front. It works better in the long run.
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Hi Gene!

Right. One needs to 100% separate the friend from the customer.

Unfortunately, though, sometimes they come to you as friend *and* customer, typically hoping to get a better "deal" than from a
stranger, or even the "comfort" of knowing you'd "take care" of
him/her in case something'd go wrong, like, I got the car, only
can't pay you because I lost my job or I didn't get the big bonus
I was expecting, etc.
That's when you gotta completely separate the two, even being a
hardass about it, saying, "Look, I'll do what I can, but I *NEED*
X bux for the car, and can't really cut you *or anyone* any
slack.". Also, no "payment terms", no fuzzy language like "I'll
pay you back when I get my tax-refund check" or "...when I get a
new job", *nothing* like that.

And even if worded the paper contract to give specific terms and
conditions (including punitive ones such as late fees), the friend part
would argue (and probably win) over the customer part and let things
slide.

> <
> Barry_Martin_3@ <
> @MSN.COM <
> <

... Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it.
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That and "Don't 'loan' bux to any friend, unless you don't expect to ever get it back.", so you won't be disappointed at all when he/she stiffs you.

PPL will pay the rent, light bill, etc. before they'll pay you, b/c the

landlord

will kick them out and the electric co. will shut your lights off. It's

simple

logic....you will always come in last, and so that's why it's not a good

idea to

loan $$ to friends.

OTOH, a contractor friend did a project for me for "free". But any time

he

needs something bought on the Internet, I get a call....."Hey! Can you

buy

me such-and-such and I'll give you a check tomorrow." I never see the check. When I ask, I get, "Do you know how much that job cost me? Why, blah blah blah..." Of course, I eat it b/c I know he's right, but in

principle, it

sucks. Moral. Deal with everything up front. It works better in the

long run.

I'm guessing only the young and idealistic would do it any other way.
I've learned my lesson (back when I was young and impressionable) and
lent out money to friends only to never see it come back. Decided that
the lesson was worth the lost money. There were a few times I lent money
to family and friends with no expectation of getting repaid. Got repaid
once, and that came as a surprise (bordering on shock).

Similarly when it came time to buy a Mac computer from a friend at
work, the deal was quite simple: I didn't see the computer until he saw my money. We both got what we want AND we remained friends.

So simple, really.
---
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On 1/4/2010 11:02 AM, DOUG POWLESS wrote to DAN GULLEY:

Ah, Doug....How y'doin' man? Anything new in Loveland? Ever get that new
car you were lusting after? How are things in the land of ice and snow?
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Maybe

check in with Dan Clay (I think that's where he's living now).

How are things down your way?

Same-0, same-0. So did Dan ever follow up on keeping ppl posted on his adventures? Do you know fer shure what he's doing now? Still seems radical that he'd leave a thriving (and well-paying) medical practice just to go off and leave for primitive living circumstances, but ppl do funny things
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Ah, Doug....How y'doin' man? Anything new in Loveland? Ever get that new car you were lusting after? How are things in the land of ice and snow?

Hey Dan. No to the first two questions. As to the third - feeling
pretty much like a hermit. I don't look or feel old but man I'm telling ya
- my tolerance for cold seems to be less and less as the years go by. Dreaming these days about making a move to Panama or something. Maybe
check in with Dan Clay (I think that's where he's living now).

How are things down your way?
---
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Maybe

check in with Dan Clay (I think that's where he's living now).

How are things down your way?

Same-0, same-0. So did Dan ever follow up on keeping ppl posted on his adventures? Do you know fer shure what he's doing now? Still seems

radical

that he'd leave a thriving (and well-paying) medical practice just to go

off

and leave for primitive living circumstances, but ppl do funny things

I think he kept in touch with the Sibleys over the years, and as far as
I know he and his wife stayed there in Panama. They're not the only
ones I know who are migrating there either, and Panama is openly
canvassing for people with steady incomes (i.e. pensioners) to relocate there.

It's such a beautiful area, fairly modern and as cheap as all get out to
live there.
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Hi Gene!

That's when you gotta completely separate the two, even being a
hardass about it, saying, "Look, I'll do what I can, but I *NEED*
X bux for the car, and can't really cut you *or anyone* any
slack.". Also, no "payment terms", no fuzzy language like "I'll
pay you back when I get my tax-refund check" or "...when I get a
new job", *nothing* like that.

And even if worded the paper contract to give specific terms and
conditions (including punitive ones such as late fees), the friend part
would argue (and probably win) over the customer part and let things
slide.

Who's talking about any contract? I'm saying to *avoid* any such
thing, and make it a simple "You give me X bux and I give you the
car, *AS IS*." and that's it. If he wants to make "terms", let
him do that with someone else but give *you* the bux up-front.

I'm thinking of examples where the lending party would be willing to set
up a contract such as a parent loaning money to a child.

> <
> Barry_Martin_3@ <
> @MSN.COM <
> <

... Is your sole purpose in life simply to serve as a warning to others?
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That and "Don't 'loan' bux to any friend, unless you don't expect to
ever get it back.", so you won't be disappointed at all when he/she GK>stiffs you.

PPL will pay the rent, light bill, etc. before they'll pay you, b/c the landl
will kick them out and the electric co. will shut your lights off. It's simp
logic....you will always come in last, and so that's why it's not a good idea
loan $$ to friends.

Ummm, that's what I said...

Yeah, unless you know someone enough that you're willing to *give*
him/her the bux, don't even go through the motions of a "loan".

*IF* you intend to sell the car, then put someone else on the hook, also
as I mentioned. Ie, let him borrow the bux from the bank or from family
or someone else, as long as it ain't you, and you get the bux up-front,
and let the other sucker be on the hook.

OTOH, a contractor friend did a project for me for "free". But any time he DG>needs something bought on the Internet, I get a call....."Hey! Can you buy DG>me such-and-such and I'll give you a check tomorrow." I never see the DG>check. When I ask, I get, "Do you know how much that job cost me? Why, DG>blah blah blah..." Of course, I eat it b/c I know he's right, but in princip
sucks. Moral. Deal with everything up front. It works better in the long r

TANSTAAFL.

Can always keep "forgetting" to order it, or order the wrong thing
(something that *you'd* want), say, "Hey, I ordered it weeks ago, what
do you mean you didn't get it??", etc. Or, simply let your CC "expire"
and not be able to order anything anymore, "even for myself", or more
simply, "My card got declined!!!".
---
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That's when you gotta completely separate the two, even being a
hardass about it, saying, "Look, I'll do what I can, but I *NEED*
X bux for the car, and can't really cut you *or anyone* any
slack.". Also, no "payment terms", no fuzzy language like "I'll
pay you back when I get my tax-refund check" or "...when I get a
new job", *nothing* like that.

And even if worded the paper contract to give specific terms and BM>conditions (including punitive ones such as late fees), the friend part BM>would argue (and probably win) over the customer part and let things BM>slide.

Who's talking about any contract? I'm saying to *avoid* any such thing,
and make it a simple "You give me X bux and I give you the car, *AS
IS*." and that's it. If he wants to make "terms", let him do that with
someone else but give *you* the bux up-front.
---
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You're still alive!!

I'm guessing only the young and idealistic would do it any other way. DP>I've learned my lesson (back when I was young and impressionable) and DP>lent out money to friends only to never see it come back. Decided that DP>the lesson was worth the lost money. There were a few times I lent money DP>to family and friends with no expectation of getting repaid. Got repaid DP>once, and that came as a surprise (bordering on shock).

Yeh, that's pretty much it. Don't "loan" any bux unless you're willing
to just never see it again, period. Getting repaid is a bonus.

Similarly when it came time to buy a Mac computer from a friend at
work, the deal was quite simple: I didn't see the computer until he saw my DP>money. We both got what we want AND we remained friends.

Yeh, a simple prisoner-exchange...

So simple, really.

Absolutely.
---
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You're still alive!!

*checks pulse* *looks in mirror, just to be safe*

Yup.

Similarly when it came time to buy a Mac computer from a friend at DP>work, the deal was quite simple: I didn't see the computer until he

saw my

money. We both got what we want AND we remained friends.

Yeh, a simple prisoner-exchange...

Prisoner exchange. :) Seems about right.
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Who's talking about any contract? I'm saying to *avoid* any such
thing, and make it a simple "You give me X bux and I give you the
car, *AS IS*." and that's it. If he wants to make "terms", let
him do that with someone else but give *you* the bux up-front.

I'm thinking of examples where the lending party would be willing to set BM>up a contract such as a parent loaning money to a child.

Oh.

Wellp, I goess that's why God invented those daytime court-shows...
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You're still alive!!

*checks pulse* *looks in mirror, just to be safe*
Yup.

Hey, with all the vampyre movies and teevee shows coming out as of
late...

Similarly when it came time to buy a Mac computer from a friend at
work, the deal was quite simple: I didn't see the computer until he saw DP>money. We both got what we want AND we remained friends.

Yeh, a simple prisoner-exchange...

Prisoner exchange. :) Seems about right.

It's da troof. Like when they make each one slowly walk towards the
other party, so neither side can make a last-second grab for both
without starting a shootout.

Keeps both sides honest...
---
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Hi Gene!

Who's talking about any contract? I'm saying to *avoid* any such
thing, and make it a simple "You give me X bux and I give you the
car, *AS IS*." and that's it. If he wants to make "terms", let
him do that with someone else but give *you* the bux up-front.

I'm thinking of examples where the lending party would be willing to set
up a contract such as a parent loaning money to a child.

Oh.
Wellp, I goess that's why God invented those daytime
court-shows... ---

Of course I didn't say _I_ was loaning out my money!

> <
> Barry_Martin_3@ <
> @MSN.COM <
> <

... What H & R Block can't do, cement blocks can.
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Hi Folks!

Sort of a weird question, especially considering the usual poster in this conference probably is can do this in their sleep.

I'm probably going to be in the market for a used (a.k.a. pre-owned) car
pretty soom -- either that or put another chuck of change into the
present car which is slowly nickel-and-diming the credit cards.

The big problem (for me) is to narrow down to a couple of brands. I
don't really want to go into a dealer and have the following
conversation "Hi! Whatcha lookin' for?" "I dunno." "Have a brand preference?" "Not really." ....

So, wondering if there is something on-line to help select/educate -- so
at least I can go in and say "Hi! I'm sort of leaning towards the Honda
Zombie or something similar. Want A/C, automatic transmission [Gene just quivered!], rear window defogger...."

There are more than a handful of dealerships on both sides of the River
here (the Iowa Quad Cities and the Illinois Quad Cities) and I can add
another shovelful by driving to the smaller towns surrounding the
cities. Admittedly don't have the time nor the interest -- and by the
time I visit three or four I'll be totally confused.

...When I bought the current car I 'cheated': the salesperson was the
husband of someone I knew from the store. "Come over at 3:30 and I'll
have a few cars for you." Ended up with #3.

TIA!

> <
> Barry_Martin_3@ <
> @MSN.COM <
> <

... Autobiography: A history of cars
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So, wondering if there is something on-line to help select/educate

www.edmunds.com

Look under "used," pick a brand, read the Edmunds review, the go to the user reviews. All of the good/bad info you could ever ask for.
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Hi Dan!

So, wondering if there is something on-line to help select/educate

www.edmunds.com
Look under "used," pick a brand, read the Edmunds review, the go
to the user reviews. All of the good/bad info you could ever ask
for.

Thanks; will look at that. Was thinking more along the lines of what
eHarmony (alledgedly) does: I like this, this and that; don't like these things. <data crunching> You'll like 1, 2, and 3.

> <
> Barry_Martin_3@ <
> @MSN.COM <
> <

... ClientSez: My BOOTLEG file didn't say anything.
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I'm probably going to be in the market for a used (a.k.a. pre-owned) car BM>pretty soom -- either that or put another chuck of change into the BM>present car which is slowly nickel-and-diming the credit cards.

*Lotta* questions to ask first...

-- How much ya wanna spend, tops?
-- Any criteria that's important (looks, gas mileage, seating, etc.)?
-- Oldest car you'd consider (2yrs, 5yrs, 10yrs, more)?

Eg, do you care whether Murrrrrrcan or furrin brands? Need a 4-door vs
a 2-door? Cargo space (eg, wagon/soov vs trunked sedan)? AC a must, or
don't care? Stick okay, or need automatic? Looks, ie, stylish, or is a fartmobile okay? Mileage, need a gas-miser? Blah, blah, blah...

What about use? This gonna be only for you, a daily-driver just to/from
work and maybe shopping? Or you expecting to haul a lotta crap and need
lots of interior room?

*Must* be from a dealer, or a private sale would be acceptable? Can
save a bundle from a private sale (no warranty, though), as long as you
bring along a mechanic to check out the car first.

I tend to put not too much faith at all in "brands" anymore, as most of
'em are crap nowadays. Eg, even a ritzy Land-Rover whose interior
looked and felt *soooooo* nice, a pro who does interiors pointed out
what's underneath and said that they're all mainly crappy quality. Everything's plastic, held together with snaps and friction-fit clips,
no more screws/bolts anymore. Hell, even engine parts that were
traditionally metal are now more and more being made of plastic.

The big problem (for me) is to narrow down to a couple of brands. I

Nah, see above. "Brands" are almost meaningless. You can get a lemon
or a jewel in any brand, and it's more likely to be luck of the draw
than anything else.

For a daily-driver, no other issues or pressing needs, I'd personally
recommend a diesel. Rugged as dirt, no timing issues or distributors or
plugs or coils, they just *work*. In cold climes, glow plugs will do
ya, or carry a spray-can of Et2O in case it's stubborn. Can get some
seriously impressive mileage out of 'em, and the engine will likely
outlive you and me put together.

One... I *think* it was a Volvo C30 or something... came in a miserly
diesel that could get something like 62mpg(!!!), whereas the gasoline
version was like 28-29 or something. I was looking for one here, and no
one seems to carry it, though, as it might be a Europe-only version.
**WHY** isn't that being sold *here*, then??

If all you care about is 4-wheels in a wrapper, any econobox will do, so
if you want to get some road-rat like a Yarus or whatever, that may suit
you just fine. A cow-orker has/had a Ford Focus that seemed pretty
decent. If you don't care about the wrapper, hey, a motorcycle can work
just fine. Keep the current car for bad weather and keep additional wear'n'tear to a minimum, take the bike most of the time otherwise.
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Motorcycle would have to have electric start

They're all electric start now.

Even *I* figgered as much. Can't recall in any recent memory someone
doing the start-dance.

Wouldn't recommend a m/c for the following....

Winter. Nuff said.

I know people who do just fine in winter. Thermals, plus stuff the
jacket with crumpled-up newspaper. Only major problem is the hands,
that *no* glove keeps your hands warm in a 50mph wind when it's
sub-freezing outside.

Minimal carrying capacity.

As a commuter, hey, who's gonna bike-pool? Don't forget, I only
recommended he get a bike as an *adjunct* to the car, not to *replace*
it. So on crappy days, sure, take the car, but otherwise, use the bike
and minimise wear'n'tear on the car.

High learning curve.

*Experience*, yeah, but shouldn't be that hard to just get moving.

I've never exclusively had a m/c since the '70's. Wouldn't think of it.

See above. At least in my *present* situation, though, I could probably
do it. Can work from home in a pinch, take a bus otherwise (huge
time-waster, but could do it, and have, a few times). Things like
shopping, though, forget it. How much could I carry in saddlebags?
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GENE KWIECINSKI wrote to DAN GULLEY <=-

Motorcycle would have to have electric start

They're all electric start now.

Minimal carrying capacity.

times). Things like shopping, though, forget it. How much could
I carry in saddlebags? ---

<laff> Yeah: I stopped at the grocery store after my dr's appointment to
pick up a few things. They packed it in two bags -- wonder if they
would have fit in the saddlebags? ....Obviously depends on the size of
the saddlebags and the contents of the grocery bags.

> <
> Barry_Martin_3@ <
> @MSN.COM <
> <

... Avoid commas, that are not necessary.
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Funny how they never tell you the actual price you'd pay, only
the payments per month.

I know a guy who was a new-car salesman and he told me that he was
amazed when he first got in the biz, how many ppl would come in the dealership, choose a car, and then tell him, "I don't need to know the total price, just tell me how much the payments will be."

Amazing....

When I bought my current vehicle in '06, I did so over the 'net. Did a bunch of research to find out what the going price was, haggled with the salesman over the cost of options, etc. Finally agreed on a price and gave him a check

on delivery from my Home Equity account. According to others, I got a
pretty good deal, but if I had just asked what the payments were....Ack!
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Hi Dan!

Funny how they never tell you the actual price you'd pay, only
the payments per month.

I know a guy who was a new-car salesman and he told me that he
was amazed when he first got in the biz, how many ppl would come
in the dealership, choose a car, and then tell him, "I don't need
to know the total price, just tell me how much the payments will
be."
Amazing....

Wow. I want to know both figures. (Say) $250 a month adds up!

While a low monthly payment is nice it could mean (more likely probably
means) the total payment on a reasonably-priced car has become an
astronomical total.

> <
> Barry_Martin_3@ <
> @MSN.COM <
> <

... Irony: God gave the tortise a drag factor of 0.03.
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True -- the financing people want to be sure their rumps are covered. So

They want their bux in case the car falls off a cliff, but don't
want to have to come after *you* to collect, so they get the
insco to make good on any eventuality. That's a condition of
getting the loan/lease.

It's going to be able to get the money from a group someone (the insurance BM>company) which has a pool of monies (from the insured clients) than a BM>single someone (individual) who has a much smaller amount of money.

Ummm, that's what I said, no? You personally can skip out, declare
bankruptcy, etc., but the insco ain't going anywhere (unless you're Countrywide, haha).

Lookit any daytime judge-show. Idiot lets bigger idiot "buy" a
car only with the payments stretched out over a year or two. Car
crokes, second idiot sez, "I ain't gots the car no mo', so why
should I pay?". Hence, the court case... Whoever holds the note
on a car-loan wants to make sure he gets paid regardless, hence
the condition of requiring complete coverage.

On the one hand it sounds logical - for about one second. <g> "It
bwoke, I ain't payin' for somethin' I can't use." In reality the BM>transaction should have been pay the whole amount and then get the car; BM>the seller is doing the buyer a favour by spreading out the payment over BM>a period of time.

Nfw would I do that, even for a friend or family. Ain't worth the
hassles and aggravation. If the engine or tranny blows up 3wks after
they take possession of the car, they can always just stop paying,
thinking you *knew* that was going to happen. Let them owe a bank or
someone else they borrow from, and the temptation to stop paying would
be that much less.

One key issue about hybrids is that the
batteries are *designed* to be replaced every 5yrs or so *at
most* In my car, that'd mean 3 or more complete replacements by
now. Plus, battery tek is still developing, charging methods
will be upgraded (ie, changed), so might not be that in 4-5yrs
that you'd be able to drop in a direct replacement, as the
batteries might no longer even be made! And different battery
chemistry would mean a new charging circuit, etc.

Oh goodie!

And despite being badmouthed left and right ("memory effect", "toxic
metals", etc.), NiCds are pretty rugged and last a *long* time, and I'm
*still* using an assload of 'em in a variety of things. NiMH and Li-*,
they *all* seem to self-destruct in a few years. How many laptops have
fully functional batteries after even 3yrs of normal use?

I like the *idea* of hybrids, but as a practical matter, unless
you're some rich ecofreak like Ed Begley Jr who can *afford* the
latest tek (probably would just buy a whole new Prius in 5yrs vs
just a battery pack), it doesn't make sense. Fleets, too (cabs,
gummint, etc.) which by law/policy ditch "old" cars after N
years, it might also make sense.

With the low miles I drive might be able to get 6 or 7 years out of the BM>battery pack, but still is a chunk of change, not to mention the

By then it'd be time to junk the car entirely vs replacing the
batteries, as the value of the car would probably be less than the cost
of new batteries.
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It's going to be able to get the money from a group someone (the insurance BM>company) which has a pool of monies (from the insured clients) than a BM>single someone (individual) who has a much smaller amount of money.

Ummm, that's what I said, no? You personally can skip out,
declare bankruptcy, etc., but the insco ain't going anywhere
(unless you're Countrywide, haha).

Yes -- just restating in the agreement. ...The aside on Countrywide didn't BM>click -- appanrantly they're no longer to be found anywhere? (And that BM>was sort of a pun.)

They're the ones who were "riding high" for the longest time, then crashed'n'burned bigtime and went into bankruptcy. No idea if they
still be in business or bit it for good.

Nfw would I do that, even for a friend or family. Ain't worth
the hassles and aggravation. If the engine or tranny blows up
3wks after they take possession of the car, they can always just
stop paying, thinking you *knew* that was going to happen. Let
them owe a bank or someone else they borrow from, and the
temptation to stop paying would be that much less.

<laff> Pretty much agree. Had one car which I was goint to trade in
and a friend really-really wanted it. "But it has had this-this-and
this done to, and the <other thing>is going out...." "I want it." BM>"But....." "I want it." "<sigh>Okayyyy....." Think about a year
later something else went wrong and the engine seized. The good news is BM>the sale cost was low and no harm came out of the friendship.

As long as you put it into writing what was wrong, that it was sold
as-is, etc., no one should complain. Still, even for personal sales,
make sure you p&m that you don't want to sell it to a friend in front of
a few witnesses, so that should you get badmouthed after-the-fact, you
at least have a few other people to back up *your* story.

And regardless, *ALWAYS* get paid in full, nothing on "layaway" or other "on-time" payments. Can always use the excuse, "Sorry, but I need the
bux *now* for something, so if you can't pay in full, I'll have to sell
it to someone who *can*.". This way, if he/she still wants it, let him
get the bux from a 3rd-party, so that *you* don't get burned.

No matter how "friendly" someone is, *always* make sure your own ass is covered, so that you can a) avoid court in the first place (most
important!), but failing that, b) make sure if it *does* get to court,
you got an airtight claim.

And despite being badmouthed left and right ("memory effect",
"toxic metals", etc.), NiCds are pretty rugged and last a *long*
time, and I'm *still* using an assload of 'em in a variety of
things. NiMH and Li-*, they *all* seem to self-destruct in a few
years. How many laptops have fully functional batteries after
even 3yrs of normal use?

Unfortunately no idea: I'm not even sure sure if anyone I hang around BM>with has a laptop. ...Friend has really bad time with her cell phone BM>battery. Phone's been exchanged, charger's been replaced....

At this point, other'n the dos-box I do this email on, everything else I
have is *only* laptops.

Motorola phone? Was a class-action suit about the charging connector(s)
that phones didn't charge the batteries correctly, something like that,
so those who had Moto phones could get some bux back and/or free
replacement. Only heard that in passing, so you can goggle it on your
own if it was in fact a Moto phone.

With the low miles I drive might be able to get 6 or 7 years out of the BM>battery pack, but still is a chunk of change, not to mention the

By then it'd be time to junk the car entirely vs replacing the
batteries, as the value of the car would probably be less than
the cost of new batteries.

And now we have disposable cars!

Pretty much.
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