boy, nice outtage. cant even login to my bank or pay my bills.
---
þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Hi Mro,
In a message to All you wrote:

boy, nice outtage. cant even login to my bank or pay my bills.

Paying bills is over rated.

Shawn

* SeM. 2.26 * If At First You Don't Succeed, Try Cash !
---
þ Synchronet þ _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)

Re: microsoft outage
By: MRO to All on Fri Jul 19 2024 03:39 am

boy, nice outtage. cant even login to my bank or pay my bills.

Yep. Woke up to blue screen on work windows laptop :-(

Lesson learned. Turn off machine. Don't let auto updates ruin your day.

Glad personal machine is linux. Unfortunately, crowdstrike has their
hands everywhere. We have been by problems with falcon sensor on linux vms before.

Horrible mess. And due to all the "security" concerns, I have to rights to do anything on the machine. I'm a linux admin but not trusted with admin on my work machine. Well congrats. Your security and planning has allowed our entire work infrastructure fail us.

Wonder how crowdstrike is going to recover from this mistake ?

Amessyroom

---
þ Synchronet þ Too Lazy BBS - Sit back and read and play games - toolazy.ddns.net:2323

Re: microsoft outage
By: Amessyroom to MRO on Fri Jul 19 2024 09:18 am

Lesson learned. Turn off machine. Don't let auto updates ruin your day.

I'm pretty sure there are still ways to prevent Windows updates from happening automatically, either with update settings or more extreme ways such as changing a setting in the registry, disabling a service, etc..

Nightfox

---
þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com

Re: microsoft outage
By: Tiny to Mro on Fri Jul 19 2024 06:49 am

Hi Mro,
In a message to All you wrote:

boy, nice outtage. cant even login to my bank or pay my bills.

Paying bills is over rated.

Shawn

most of it is up now [on my end], so i hope they get paid.
---
þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: microsoft outage
By: Amessyroom to MRO on Fri Jul 19 2024 09:18 am

Wonder how crowdstrike is going to recover from this mistake ?

Maybe they'll blame it on Trump???

---
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Re: microsoft outage
By: Nightfox to Amessyroom on Fri Jul 19 2024 11:57 am

I'm pretty sure there are still ways to prevent Windows updates from happening automatically, either with update settings or more extreme ways such as changing a setting in the registry, disabling a service, etc..

My company certainly prevents it on their little putrid PC box that I am forced to use until they are ready to push it to me...

But I would not wish THAT OS image on anybody...

---
þ Synchronet þ TIRED of waiting 2 hours for a taco? GO TO TACOPRONTO.bbs.io

Hi Mro,
On <Sat, 19 Jul 24>, you wrote me:

Paying bills is over rated.

most of it is up now [on my end], so i hope they get paid.

I'm sure they will. I can't see why they wouldn't get paid.


* SeM. 2.26 * Money can't buy love, but most women sure can love money!
---
þ Synchronet þ _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)

Amessyroom wrote to MRO <=-

Glad personal machine is linux. Unfortunately, crowdstrike has their
hands everywhere. We have been by problems with falcon sensor on linux
vms before.

I was trying to schedule a block of time to install Crowdstrike on 100+
linux hosts at the behest of our infosec department. I think now I can
truthfully say I'm waiting upon further review before proceeding.



--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.

Re: microsoft outage
By: Bf2k+ to Amessyroom on Sat Jul 20 2024 03:51 am

Re: microsoft outage
By: Amessyroom to MRO on Fri Jul 19 2024 09:18 am

Wonder how crowdstrike is going to recover from this mistake ?

Maybe they'll blame it on Trump???

LOL, right? There always has to be a scapegoat.

Sad things is shit happens, and it will happen again. I've had some crazy crap happen (not at this scale), that just cannot be explained or 100% prevented.

But I hope it opens peoples eyes, that using one system. Microsoft Windows or Linux or Unix, is not the best solution. Would be better to have systems that can work together , and not be dependent on one platform.

But management will probably never accept that , until they get impacted over and over again.

I remember when I supported, Apollo, HPUX, and Solaris at one company.

I also remember this company had a properitary (internal) mail system that never had problems. When they were convienced to move to microsoft exchange, that had to keep bring in bigger and bigger machines (i.e. alphas at the time) to try and keep up with what their system handled, without an issue. It was so comical. But Microsoft won out of course....

Amessyroom

---
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Re: microsoft outage
By: Bf2k+ to Nightfox on Sat Jul 20 2024 03:53 am

My company certainly prevents it on their little putrid PC box that I am forced to use until they are ready to push it to me...

But I would not wish THAT OS image on anybody...

Why's that? Did they customize it some way?

Nightfox

---
þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com

Re: microsoft outage
By: Bf2k+ to Amessyroom on Sat Jul 20 2024 03:51 am

Re: microsoft outage
By: Amessyroom to MRO on Fri Jul 19 2024 09:18 am

Wonder how crowdstrike is going to recover from this mistake ?

Maybe they'll blame it on Trump???

my friend who's an it admin at a large company said someone viewed the update and it was all zeros. so this might be a malicious attack from an individual who worked there. could all be rumors, though.
---
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Re: microsoft outage
By: Tiny to Mro on Sat Jul 20 2024 07:31 am

Hi Mro,
On <Sat, 19 Jul 24>, you wrote me:

Paying bills is over rated.

most of it is up now [on my end], so i hope they get paid.

I'm sure they will. I can't see why they wouldn't get paid.

I did have a weird thing where i went to mcdonalds weeks ago.
this morning at 4am i got like 10+ charges on my citibank card but it
was all dropped.

then i see someone online complaining about a vending machine charging them 300 bucks on that night.
---
þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: microsoft outage
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Amessyroom on Sat Jul 20 2024 08:10 am

I was trying to schedule a block of time to install Crowdstrike on 100+ linux hosts at the behest of our infosec department. I think now I can truthfully say I'm waiting upon further review before proceeding.

What I find odd is that I see a lot of people saying the issue yesterday was a Windows problem, when from what I've heard, the issue was with the CrowdStrike software.

Nightfox

---
þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com

Lesson learned. Turn off machine. Don't let auto updates ruin your day.

I'm pretty sure there are still ways to prevent Windows updates from happening >automatically, either with update settings or more extreme ways such as >changing a setting in the registry, disabling a service, etc..

Unless you are an admin on your work PC, keeping it turned off (or
unplugging the network cable) may be your only way of preventing auto
updates.


* SLMR 2.1a * "Did you open the Microwave door before the 'ding'"?
---
þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Re: Re: microsoft outage
By: Nightfox to poindexter FORTRAN on Sat Jul 20 2024 02:18 pm

What I find odd is that I see a lot of people saying the issue yesterday was a Windows problem, when from what I've heard, the issue was with the CrowdStrike software.

Coincidentally, there was an Azure outage in the wee hours before the CrowdStrike update. Although, the news isn't known for being tech-savvy, and the CS Falcon issue only affected Windows hosts. That could be part of the confusion.
---
þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.

Re: microsoft outage
By: Dumas Walker to NIGHTFOX on Sat Jul 20 2024 12:21 pm

Lesson learned. Turn off machine. Don't let auto updates ruin your day.

I'm pretty sure there are still ways to prevent Windows updates from
happening automatically, either with update settings or more extreme ways
such as changing a setting in the registry, disabling a service, etc..

Unless you are an admin on your work PC, keeping it turned off (or unplugging the network cable) may be your only way of preventing auto updates.

Well yeah, you might not be able to on your work PC, but you should be able to with your home PC.

Nightfox

---
þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com

Hello Nightfox!

What I find odd is that I see a lot of people saying the
issue yesterday was a Windows problem, when from what I've
heard, the issue was with the CrowdStrike software.

It's probably not cut n dry just a crowdstrike cause. It may
turn out to be a fundamental issue with services that MS
provides for those tools. MS is intricately woven into all of
this third party stuff as well.




--- OpenXP 5.0.58
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Re: microsoft outage
By: MRO to Tiny on Sat Jul 20 2024 04:21 pm

Re: microsoft outage
By: Tiny to Mro on Sat Jul 20 2024 07:31 am

Hi Mro,
On <Sat, 19 Jul 24>, you wrote me:

Paying bills is over rated.

most of it is up now [on my end], so i hope they get paid.

I'm sure they will. I can't see why they wouldn't get paid.

I did have a weird thing where i went to mcdonalds weeks ago.
this morning at 4am i got like 10+ charges on my citibank card but it
was all dropped.

then i see someone online complaining about a vending machine charging them 300 bucks on that night.

oh now i have past due warnings for 2 cards that i scheduled payments for.
and the live chat says they can't pull up my informaton and i should call instead.
---
þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Hi Mro,
On <Sun, 20 Jul 24>, you wrote me:

I did have a weird thing where i went to mcdonalds weeks ago.
this morning at 4am i got like 10+ charges on my citibank card but it
was all dropped.

Maybe your bank caught it and automaticaly reversed charges? I've
had that happen. During covid I got gas at a station I don't normally use
and thenext day the bank called me to ask if I was currently traveling.

All charges were reversed after my gas purchase which I verified as being
me.


* SeM. 2.26 * Useless Invention: Reduced calorie water.
---
þ Synchronet þ _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)

Hi Mro,
On <Mon, 21 Jul 24>, you wrote me:

oh now i have past due warnings for 2 cards that i scheduled payments
for. and the live chat says they can't pull up my informaton and i
should call instead.

It's going to go through. Once they get their shit fixed, if they don't drop the interest or any fines for being late just call and let them know you
know it's their fault.


* SeM. 2.26 * "Please get out of my store! Thank you, come again!" -- Apu ---
þ Synchronet þ _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)

I stopped updates in registry key. Only very minor issues so far. I did this 2 years ago. I do not use sync nor Microsoft accounts. Been getting by ok.

---
þ Synchronet þ Ricks BBS - RICKSBBS.SYNCHRO.NET

Re: microsoft outage
By: Tiny to Mro on Sun Jul 21 2024 05:27 am

Maybe your bank caught it and automaticaly reversed charges? I've
had that happen. During covid I got gas at a station I don't normally use and thenext day the bank called me to ask if I was currently traveling.

All charges were reversed after my gas purchase which I verified as being me.

i think they restarted 'the system' and it did the hold but
released it.

pretty weird stuff.

also with my 2 credit cards it has this error msg
"Your payment is past due.
This is an attempt to collect a debt and any information obtained will be used for that purpose."

i just got off online chat and they said to ignore it.
---
þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: microsoft outage
By: Nightfox to poindexter FORTRAN on Sat Jul 20 2024 02:18 pm

What I find odd is that I see a lot of people saying the issue yesterday was a Windows problem, when from what I've heard, the issue was with the CrowdStrike software.

The issue was Microsoft Windows granting CrowdStrike software privileges enough to crash your stuff.

If you run an unprivileged piece of junk and it crashes your servers, it is considered a bug in the server's systems.


--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

---
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Re: microsoft outage
By: Dumas Walker to NIGHTFOX on Sat Jul 20 2024 12:21 pm

Unless you are an admin on your work PC, keeping it turned off (or unplugging the network cable) may be your only way of preventing auto updates.

I used to block Microsoft's update servers through my router's firewall when I was doing something important and didn't want Windows update to bother me.
--
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---
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Re: microsoft outage
By: Nightfox to Bf2k+ on Sat Jul 20 2024 02:12 pm

Why's that? Did they customize it some way?

That's an understatement. It is the most f'd up Windows image I have ever seen. It won't even run on my Siemens Field PG (which is my main machine for the type of programming that I do - PLCs & HMIs). When the company PC boots up, it displays a paragraph that accuses me of everything from Surfing Facebook to raping small children... and then even though I can usually get my engineering software loaded, it refuses to let me apply updates and Service packs which makes it useless. Part of my job is to support the software so the UPDs and SPs are a necessity...

Suffice to say that the company does not want to buy any more Siemens Field PGs (@$7k ea which is 50% off list) so I am being forced to try to get my stuff to work on the company 'laptop'. My colleagues just buy their own laptops and don't deal with it but I refuse to buy my own. I want the company to make their Dells work for the job... so I am kinda trying to pave the way for my colleagues and those who follow to be able to do the job on the company PCs.

---
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Re: microsoft outage
By: Ogg to Nightfox on Sat Jul 20 2024 19:26:00

It's probably not cut n dry just a crowdstrike cause.

It turns out, that Crowdstriks own update software, updates one of their own .sys files (a boot-start driver) but the file was all zero's, there was no data in it. I dont think theres much room for Microsoft to be at fault here, unless you want to argue that Windows should continue booting if a boot-start driver fails due to the file just being corrupt... (that would be a big security concern) Again, Crowdstrikes software is NOT updated through Windows Update.

---
þ Synchronet þ Sent from the Amiga City BBS

Re: Re: microsoft outage
By: Arelor to Nightfox on Sun Jul 21 2024 16:07:51

The issue was Microsoft Windows granting CrowdStrike software privileges enough to crash your stuff.

But thats not Microsoft granting CrowdStrike the privilege, its the IT deparements who installed CrowdStrike on their PCs.

Or do you want Microsoft to decide what boot-start drivers people should be allowed to install, and thus Microsoft to dictate what you can and cant do with your PC?

---
þ Synchronet þ Sent from the Amiga City BBS

Hi Mro,
On <Mon, 21 Jul 24>, you wrote me:

i just got off online chat and they said to ignore it.

See? Probably all a part of the amazon downtime and or
the whozitwhatzit upgrade thingie. ;)

Shawn
Written on: Monday, 07/22/2024, at 06:20:13

-!-TieSig v 0.05
... Why is the sun never overhead at noon?


* SeM. 2.26 * If Chekov owned a computer, would it be a Wax?
---
þ Synchronet þ _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)

Hello Glum!

By: Arelor to Nightfox on Sun Jul 21 2024 16:07:51

The issue was Microsoft Windows granting CrowdStrike software privileges
enough to crash your stuff.

But thats not Microsoft granting CrowdStrike the privilege, its the IT deparements who installed CrowdStrike on their PCs.

Or do you want Microsoft to decide what boot-start drivers people should
be allowed to install, and thus Microsoft to dictate what you can and cant do with your PC?

You can argue how important the CS boot-start is, however the
reality is that it is *not* important enough to prevent booting
into the OS. Maybe it should revert to safe mode with CS
sandboxed or whatever, but life needs to continue so that the
issue can be addressed. MS handling of this fault most
certainly is *not* optimal. CS is only one of many "important"
services in these systems.


--- OpenXP 5.0.58
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Re: Re: microsoft outage
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Sat Jul 20 2024 05:23 pm

the CS Falcon issue only affected Windows hosts.

Maybe not: https://www.theregister.com/2024/07/21/crowdstrike_linux_crashes_restoration_tools/
--
digital man (rob)

This Is Spinal Tap quote #30:
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Re: microsoft outage
By: Tiny to Mro on Mon Jul 22 2024 06:20 am

Hi Mro,
On <Mon, 21 Jul 24>, you wrote me:

i just got off online chat and they said to ignore it.

See? Probably all a part of the amazon downtime and or
the whozitwhatzit upgrade thingie. ;)

oh i know it's because of it.

i just dont want to go through any more bs. i'm in the middle of moving
and already i'm having problems pop up.
---
þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: microsoft outage
By: Ogg to Glum on Mon Jul 22 2024 08:34 am

You can argue how important the CS boot-start is, however the
reality is that it is *not* important enough to prevent booting
into the OS. Maybe it should revert to safe mode with CS
sandboxed or whatever, but life needs to continue so that the
issue can be addressed. MS handling of this fault most
certainly is *not* optimal. CS is only one of many "important"
services in these systems.

apparently it is important because it's being used so widely.

you cant expect microsoft to do all the thinking for everyone. it doesn't get that much money from clients.

what needs to be done is they need to find out if this was actually an attack by a bad actor. this update with zeros seems pretty fishy. and who approved it to be pushed?

if they did this again and then took out our powergrids (easy to do), north america could be easily invaded.
---
þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Hi Mro,
On <Tue, 22 Jul 24>, you wrote me:

i just dont want to go through any more bs. i'm in the middle of
moving and already i'm having problems pop up.

Ugh. Moving sucks, I don't know anyone who likes that. Hope the
problems piss off and you can get moved smooth man. No one
deserves a bad move.



* SeM. 2.26 * Vegetarian (n.), Ancient native word meaning "lousy hunter". ---
þ Synchronet þ _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)

Was this a test run for something bigger?

---
þ Synchronet þ Ricks BBS - RICKSBBS.SYNCHRO.NET

Rixter wrote to MRO <=-

Was this a test run for something bigger?

So, do you just not understand how to quote some context from the
message you are replying to, or... do you just *choose* to not do it?



... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Re: microsoft outage
By: Tiny to Mro on Tue Jul 23 2024 05:56 am

Hi Mro,
On <Tue, 22 Jul 24>, you wrote me:

i just dont want to go through any more bs. i'm in the middle of
moving and already i'm having problems pop up.

Ugh. Moving sucks, I don't know anyone who likes that. Hope the
problems piss off and you can get moved smooth man. No one
deserves a bad move.

looks like the uhaul place is going to be a pita already.
---
þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Hi Mro,

looks like the uhaul place is going to be a pita already.

Get the extra insurance and be like Sienfield.


* SeM. 2.26 * Psychic convention cancelled due to unforeseen circumstances. ---
þ Synchronet þ _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)

Re: microsoft outage
By: Tiny to Mro on Wed Jul 24 2024 05:59 am

Hi Mro,

looks like the uhaul place is going to be a pita already.

Get the extra insurance and be like Sienfield.

they make you get insurance or they fine you to infinity if their piece of shit truck is damaged or if you have problems.
---
þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Was this a test run for something bigger?

So, do you just not understand how to quote some context from the
message you are replying to, or... do you just *choose* to not do it?

In this case I am pretty sure he means the Crowdstrike issue.

I am not certain that it was a test run but I am sure it gave some bad
actors some bad ideas, if they didn't already have them.


* SLMR 2.1a * This message protected by DALETECH!!
---
þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Dumas Walker wrote to GAMGEE <=-

Was this a test run for something bigger?

So, do you just not understand how to quote some context from the
message you are replying to, or... do you just *choose* to not do it?

In this case I am pretty sure he means the Crowdstrike issue.

Probably, yes. But.... well, you know.

I am not certain that it was a test run but I am sure it gave some bad actors some bad ideas, if they didn't already have them.

I'm sure that's true, and that's probably more damaging in the long term
than the actual impact just recently.



... The future's uncertain, the end is always near.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Hi Mro,
On <Thu, 24 Jul 24>, you wrote me:

they make you get insurance or they fine you to infinity if their
piece of shit truck is damaged or if you have problems.

I remember years ago my Daughter was moving and asked me
to rent the truck and add someone else as the driver as I was
going to be out of town. She was so mad at me when I said
I would do it but she had to pay for the extra insurance.

Two days later she phoned me to let me know they returned
the truck and the other guy had in fact backed it into a tree.

That was the day she decided I wasn't a complete idiot and
thanked me for making her pay for insurance.

(At the time she didn't have a drivers license or credit card
which is why I had to rent it for them and add a secondary
driver)

Shawn

* SeM. 2.26 * Grdauaet @TO@ shcool of typign
---
þ Synchronet þ _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)

Re: microsoft outage
By: Tiny to Mro on Thu Jul 25 2024 06:59 am

Hi Mro,
On <Thu, 24 Jul 24>, you wrote me:

they make you get insurance or they fine you to infinity if their
piece of shit truck is damaged or if you have problems.

I remember years ago my Daughter was moving and asked me
to rent the truck and add someone else as the driver as I was
going to be out of town. She was so mad at me when I said
I would do it but she had to pay for the extra insurance.

Two days later she phoned me to let me know they returned
the truck and the other guy had in fact backed it into a tree.

That was the day she decided I wasn't a complete idiot and
thanked me for making her pay for insurance.

(At the time she didn't have a drivers license or credit card
which is why I had to rent it for them and add a secondary
driver)

well it's sort of a scam. rental cars and uhauls are already insured by the company. they then tack on extra fees and say you need to buy insurance.
---
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Re: microsoft outage
By: MRO to Tiny on Thu Jul 25 2024 07:22 am

well it's sort of a scam. rental cars and uhauls are already insured by the company. they then tack on extra fees and say you need to buy insurance.

That sucks, but then a lot of renters are scumbags themselves who deserve the distrust they get from the companies.

Here they tipically make you leave a deposit and pay in advance before you get the vehicle, but last times I have asked for a rental vehicle they just told me to not bother with the deposit because "it is not worth it with regular people." :-P


--
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---
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Re: microsoft outage
By: Arelor to MRO on Thu Jul 25 2024 03:51 pm

Re: microsoft outage
By: MRO to Tiny on Thu Jul 25 2024 07:22 am

well it's sort of a scam. rental cars and uhauls are already insured by the company. they then tack on extra fees and say you need to buy insurance.

That sucks, but then a lot of renters are scumbags themselves who deserve the distrust they get from the companies.

i dont think it's distrust. i just think it's a way to get more money.
most of uhaul's trucks are total garbage. i've had some that are barely road worthy.

Here they tipically make you leave a deposit and pay in advance before you get the vehicle, but last times I have asked for a rental vehicle they just told me to not bother with the deposit because "it is not worth it with regular people." :-P

how big is the deposit?
i'm already paying a LOT in rental fees.
---
þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Tiny wrote to Mro <=-

Hi Mro,
On <Thu, 24 Jul 24>, you wrote me:

they make you get insurance or they fine you to infinity if their
piece of shit truck is damaged or if you have problems.

I drove a car in England this summer, first time driving on the
left-hand side. I bought the comprehensive insurance, and when I told
the agent it was my first time driving over there, he told me "if you
can get all of the bits and bobs to roll back here, it's all good..."




--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.

Re: microsoft outage
By: MRO to Arelor on Thu Jul 25 2024 09:50 pm

how big is the deposit?
i'm already paying a LOT in rental fees.

Very low. I think around 300-500 EUR when renting a 14m¨ van.


--
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Re: microsoft outage
By: Arelor to MRO on Sat Jul 27 2024 05:13 pm

Re: microsoft outage
By: MRO to Arelor on Thu Jul 25 2024 09:50 pm

how big is the deposit?
i'm already paying a LOT in rental fees.

Very low. I think around 300-500 EUR when renting a 14m­ van.

so since you say deposit, do they get it back?
or is that the rental cost.
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So, do you just not understand how to quote some context from the
message you are replying to, or... do you just *choose* to not do it?

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Re: microsoft outage
By: MRO to Arelor on Sat Jul 27 2024 06:49 pm

so since you say deposit, do they get it back?
or is that the rental cost.

Yes, you get it back, unless you damage the car or whatever (in which case damages get paid from the deposit).

I think it is no coincidence the deposit is about as much as the typical insurance franchise buffer.


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